I've done alright from the install. 17kW on the roof and 19.2kW Sungrow battery on a relatively flat roof in SE QLD. The battery is usually back at 100% by 10am, so most of the rest is straight into the grid. Power bills were getting jacked up and we were at around -$900/quarter. After the install our credit is around +$200/quarter. Our average daily consumption from the grid for the last quarter is 2.18kW/day, average consumption for a house with the same number of residents is apparently 19.78kW. No real changes from our usage (other than not using the oven as much as it really sucks down the power) and I don't care about the cost of running the aircon if the sun is up, hell I even have a 2nd hand aircon in the shed and the panels easily keep pace with it all. A really good option for a 36 degree 70% humidity SE QLD day and you want to work on the car.
I am with you in this. NE NSW flat roof, and half your batteries. I have freedom to use anything anytime and NO blackouts. During a storm last week, neighbours were out and we were watching Netflix, baking a cake, pool heated a d air con ON for the entire 2h of blackout! That's priceless!
@@henrique8490Holy crap, TWO hours?! That is unlivable! Seriously though, 2 hours is nothing. A cheap inverter generator would take care of that and you wouldn’t even have gone through a gallon of gasoline. Where I live, the power goes out almost every single day, so solar would be amazing here with a sizeable battery bank to boot, specially since we get tons of sun, it’s hot as hell here year round and I run my A/C 24/7 as the difference between summer and “winter” is 10 degrees, so instead of it being 90+ degrees F, it’ll be in the 80’s and 70’s at night, or 60’s if you’re in th le peak of the mountains where nobody lives. Only problem is, all those amazing deals the ‘muricans get with products like EG4 batteries, inverters, and cheap solar panels aren’t available here cuz nobody ships em here. They’ll gladly ship them to the other side of the planet thousands of miles away, though. Here, you can only buy from one company who will ream you with a system that’s inadequate and all you can buy is a Tesla PowerWall for an insane price. Wish all I had to worry about was a 2 hour blackout that rarely happens lol. If the power doesn’t come back within an hour or 2 here, you’re waiting until the next day (or several days) to get it back, only for it to go back out shortly after. Best case scenario, you get it ruuully ruuuly late after which you have to leave the house anyway or your day’s already been ruined, or your night cuz you haven’t gotten any sleep.
Wow. @@groundcontrol6876that is tough living. Here it was an exceptional blackout as apparently someone was "lightned up"... but you are right. Here is only 5h from Syd/Bne and even though it took months to get the batteries. I can only imagine what that would be for maintenance in a remote area...
I got mine 18 odd years ago, I've not had bill for that time, every one said it would be 20 years before it's paid for its self, no bills for 18 years was great, it allowed me to redirect monies into living a little better, very informative video ,thank you
I got a solar and battery system through your links and recommendation six months ago and I have enjoyed zero power bills-and that was Vico winter! The company was excellent to deal with. Thanks to Mr Greeen and John Cadogan.
I live in South Australia. I am off grid. I power my EV from solar. The house batteries for the house is lead assed batteries I use glow watt batteries for the EV.
It always gives me the heebie-jeebies when i hear you talk about north facing solar panels! But then, I turn my phone upside down, continue to watch your video and everything makes sense!😂 Cheers from the part of the world, where christmas means winter! Great video, BTW!
Hi John, I haven't read all the comments BUT, at no stage did you mention what your feed in tariff is. THAT in my opinion is the catch, it keeps getting adjusted DOWN so whatever grand plan you envisage gets eroded away by your energy provider moving the goal posts!
I can relate to many of the reasons you have outlined John, including the objectionable prices that energy companies charge for power. If I buy energy off the grid it can cost from 20-50c per kwh, but if I feed energy to the grid, all they can offer me now is 3.3c per kwh. And then they charge a daily fee on top of that. They are essentially getting the first 30+ kwhs of my energy for free, and paying a pittance after that. I felt like I was being shafted every day. So I have upgraded my Sungrow system to run my all electric home, and gone completely off grid. I now dont have electricity or gas bills, and simply requested my retailer to disconnect to avoid the daily charge. This does require a largish system that cant be justified on ROI, and also a backup just in case, but entirely doable. And satisfying.
I've had an off-grid cabin since 2011. We only use it 4-6 days a month so it's only been a problem once. After a blizzard we used kerosene lamps for light and the wood stove for heat, cooking and to melt snow for water. It was actually kind of nice and peaceful.
@@bradgray123 - FIT was 42c when I installed my first solar system in 2012. It used to be where the savings came from, Retail back then in SA was a piddly 25c. Now best I can get is 10c on the first 14kwh each day and 4c on the rest. I'm retired so we changed our power usage times to the shoulder rate 10am to 3pm @ 37c. Off peak from 1am to 6am is 40c, and peak is 6am to 10am and 3pm to 1am @ 55c. I'm installing a battery this week on tuesday.
Hey John, We installed 10kWs of solar capacity on the roof and about 10kWh of battery out the back about 12 months ago. My wife has a cooking business at home. We're reasonably frugal with energy, and our average quarterly power bill from AGL in South Australia was about $500. we were spending about $2000 per year on electricity! Our system is a midrange system and has good guarantees on performance. our annual spend with AGL over the last 12 months, $120! Our payback should be about 8 years. Our reason for going solar, pending retirement and a drop in income that is associated with that. We inherited a little money so we had the cash, which we would otherwise have frittered away on crap. In retirement, after we have done the obligatory lap of the nation towing the converted aluminium box an EV will fit right into our carport, we have had hybrid and PHEV vehicles since 2006. With my wife not using the solar energy to cook the excess from the roof will go into an EV, and not gifted to AGL at a few cents per kWh. Stick it up oil companies and AGL at the same time!
We installed a 10.92kw with an 8.25kw Solar Edge inverter, no battery currently. We get shade at times on each panel so solar edge offered the best solution for us. The best advice I can give to anyone is that it’s not just about what you save. We use more electricity than we ever have. No more thinking about turning the aircon on, if the sun is out it’s on.
Hi John, not sure if anyone else has made this point but the solar panels and battery have a finite life. You therefore need to factor this into the return on investment. If it lasts for 20 years ( I’m being generous), you need to amortise 5% of the purchase price per annum…reducing the return on investment by around 50% per annum to 5%.
Another factor is the system degrades overtime so the output of the system is going to be noticeable in say 10 years time. Also John only compared the solar investment against an ANZ term deposit. Firstly there are other term deposit providers that offer better rates than ANZ. And secondly, there are much better ways to invest your money. Term deposits are only one step better than a savings account.
With solar, your investment depreciates quicker than a term deposit. At the end of 20 years you get your money you invested back, minus inflation. Don't think you would get much change back from your solar materials after 20 years.
You're correct Re. price increases, but as July 2024, in Cairns , Ergon reduced the solar tariff by about 0.01 cent/Khour. Bureaucracy will always have their hands in You're pocket !
Our system was $23k 9.68kw of panels plus sungrow sh15T 3 phase inverter and 16kwh of sungrow batteries, all installed plus rewired existing 6kw panels to the new inverter. Because the beefy inverter, the entire house is backedup, all 3 phases including the aircon. We've not drained the battery completely during a peak period. Its awesome.
Was thinking of bolting a reactor on to the side of the kids swing set in the backyard, as there were two holes where the optional slide attaches, but was over a billion dollars in cost and the regulatory approvals would have been a nightmare.
@@Guvament_bs - If one's household pays significant net tax - they may be thankful of a one-off subsidy... (the multitudes heading to centerlink for an array of benefits are by and large involved in bulk middleclass subsidisation- until the kids leave hone...)
I pulled 2mwhs in September with a 15,6kw array, you need eastern and western facing panels to catch the morning and afternoon sun if you can of course.
I installed 20 REC panels a few years ago. During summer they work really well to power my pool pumps and the house. However in winter in Melbourne they don't produce much at all due to the many cloudy days. Did the numbers on a battery system and couldn't get a reasonable payback.
I'm in TAS and am lucky to have the perfect aspect off North East. Installed it in the middle of winter and it's now paying for itself. We did take advantage of the 3 year interest free opportunity down here though. Got all the data too thanks to a friendly inverter and home assistant setup
I must be one of the extremely few here in NZ to not only have a zero daily charge but also have one of the highest solar buyback rates of 17 cents per Kwh. So I am happy. Of course, our power supply is ridiculously reliable, so a battery is a waste of money as its payback is never.
I got sungrows system back in 2021, haven’t had 1 bill since.. the inverter did shit itself may 2023.. but had a new one send to me within 2 weeks. Saved me from a lot of blackouts here in Regional WA. It cost 15500$ with rebates back then
@@bradgray123 - Poles and wires were built and paid for by taxpayers. Then privatised. The retailers collect the daily fixed charge, and pass on some of it to the new private owners of the grid that the tax payers built in the first place.
35 years later, and I still have PTSD because of Fourier and LaPlace. Listen, don’t mention the war. I mentioned it once, but I think I got way with it, all right?
Took COVID money added 6 kw to 3, I had. Got bonus for adding water heat pump, that's where the saving was for me. Had my first bill in 17 months last August $113. Now in credit $140 Also added panels to south side which is a must in vic if you want early morning watts in summer definitely run the algorithm on that. Specially if you use power earlyin the morning. Not worth me getting a battery. Always look for low day rate as well as best buy back😊 Thanks for your vid.
I’m in Tasie with a 6.6kwh system and 8 months after changing the metering from peek and OFFpeak and the supplier with TOU metering I now have + $ 1000.00 , that’s credit. cheers
Home solar & battery ... a solid plus & good to have. Toss an EV in for even more & 'fuel' from that same setup. But doing just one ... home solar is a very solid option. I didn't realize going solar was so cheap in Australia ... no brainer, from the sounds of it.
Hi John I too have an install booked in for Dec 16th. I currently have a 6.5kw system on single phase and a FIT of 7.36 cents per Kwhr. The only problem is with a single phase system here in WA, your inverter cannot exceed 5KW. This means I'd be drawing from the grid to supplement the extra draw during higher demand times. So I thought I'd stick it to Western Power by going to 18.2KW of Sunpower panels and 25KW of Sungrow SBH250 batteries with the 15KW Sungrow hybrid 3 phase inverter. The SBH batteries allow 50amps continuous output allowing me to run the entire home including the aircon. Going 3 phase is the only option for me and this allows my system, with blackout protection, to go completely off grid if necessary. There is a changeover switch to enable the grid incase of solar system failure. I'm glad you thought Sungrow were a good system to go with as I did too. I'm looking forward in seeing how the system behaves. P.S We lose the FIT here in WA once we go to 3 phase. It's not worth it anyway and the system can be programmed to ramp down so as not to feed into the grid.
Hi John, We got a 6.6kW system on our house November 2021. Back in May this year we got another 6.6kW on the Southern side of our roof. Total cost is about $11k. I estimate it will be paid back in about seven years or so. Currently at about $5400 payback and it will now be a lot quicker. We are self sufficient from about 6:45 in the morning till about 7 at night at the moment. . With AGL on the solar savers plan we only have a $16 bill more than halfway through this quarter. I do not want to have a Lithium Ion battery anywhere near my house. Also I should have at least 10 years or more out of the inverters before they need replacement. Even before the upgrade, we were only averaging $60 a month in usage so $200+ extra for paying off a battery was dumb. So far today used 30 odd kW with only about 3.5kW from the grid mainly because we used the A/C on dry mode till about 2:am. Usually only about 4-5kW from the grid per day. Exporting about 40+ kW per day with a 5 kW export limit. May get a bit dire if the Fit drops but still saving while the sun shines. Set and forget compared to having a fast depreciating EV that costs a motza to insure and could burn your house down.
Do it. I first installed a 3kw system on my garage in 2012 (cost 10k). Then installed a 5kw system with 6'66kw panels on my house roof in 2017 (cost 6.5k). The savings have been great, but the heavily slashed FIT and skyrocketing retail here in South Oz have drastically cut those savings right down. My Tesla Powerwall 2 battery gets installed on Tuesday next week 12 November. It's costing me $14,800 to do it (needs extra long 10mm cables due to location of inverters in the garage and the meter box being on the opposite side of the yard). Normal price for a PW2 is 14.2k at the moment. ps. Both my solar installs have already paid for themselves. The smaller system was the slowest to pay for itself, but that too is in the black now after 12 years.
I just did the calculations and first thought you were wrong but then realised I’d made a mistake. I am absolutely stunned by how much pollution is generated from 1kWh.
Shade of chimney 0:12 will kill your system, that panel will be extremely hot in shadow as it will act as resistor if bypass diode fails. I made my 16kwh Lifeo4 battery with 5kw hybrid with off grid back up ability myself only for $3500, it has been powering my house for last 2 years. I import zero from grid, do all cooking on this solar system. If you diy it is very cheap.
It looks like Tiffany and yourself have a beautiful home. Congratulations! Thank you for the video J.C. (Out of curiosity, have you looked into ceramic coating the panels? There by lessening the time in between cleanings, perhaps quarterly or yearly, of the dust, bird poo, etc, i realise it maybe not feasible due to the highwire act to access the panels. I wonder on the beneficial nature and possible ROI in efficiency)
Home Solar PV system made sense for me in WA after considering some of the basics. Will my realistic ROI period be under 5 years, yes. Will i be living in this house for much longer than 5 yrs, yes. Is the warranty substantial, yes. I haven't got a battery because ROI period is too long. With my 5kW inverter system, plus a little feed-in tariff, my system saves me close to 50% off my yearly power bill, around $1700 per yr. Happy with that.
John..... I've looked into this many times and found: 1. I can only calculate the return on investment for a time period defined by the term of the warranty - ie 10 years typically because after that technically speaking the system or a major component may fail and you need a new one - so it needs to pay for itself within the warranty period; 2. You need to factor in the cost of paying someone to get up on the roof and cleaning the panels every 6 months (ie maintenance) due to dust very likely/potentially reducing performance by up tp 30%, so what's that 500 a year maybe for a double story house?; 3. In the event of a hail storm (one of those nasty ones) - its happened in the past that the panels smash and the house insurance wont cover that damage unless they are specified as a specific item on the roof at an extra cost of circa 100 to 150 bucks a year to cover storm damage to the panels.....; and 4. Don't forget, If you just went onto your internet banking and dumped 24 grand cash into Wesfarmers or Rio or BHP etc - you can expect an average return of circa 8%pa for doing nothing...... (8% is the ASX 200 average return since 1990 to present) So to my mind....... Unless you're a tree hugging greeny or use A LOT of power - these days the numbers do not stack up.... and every year over the last 10 years I've looked at it and they never have stacked up to any real benefit.......... other than a 'conscience vote' So there's that..... DUUUUUUDE (Bow for applause.......... now)
1. Most if not all reputable solar panels offer a 20+ year warranty with guarantees on panel performance at a given age, usually 20+ years. 2. Its not that hard to get on your roof and clean panels, for probably most people, not all of course. 3. calculated risk i'd say, but its hardly worth the added calculation. 4. 8% when i last checked, was less than 10% I think the point of Johns video, and he's absolutely on the ball. IF you want to do something positive, climate wise, forget the EV - Solar (and battery if you can) are a far better financial decision. no bow required.
I use very little power, my power bills were only about $400 per quarter prior to installing solar. It cost $8,500 after RECS 8 years ago for a 5kW system. Paid itself off in 5 years. The Fronius inverter has a 15 year warranty and Trina panels, 20 years. Panels are so cheap now the Recs essentially covers the entire cost of them and installation.
@b3nz0r12 you can offer a one hundred year warranty but it's not much good if the company is no longer around to honour it. This is one of the problems with cheap Chinese EVs.
Point 2. Buy a ladder for 100 bucks and climb on the roof with a hose and long handled brush. They can do it, so can you. Point 3. Everyone needs house insurance, just bite the bullet. Its only 100-150 bucks Point 4. 8% ffs. 1990 to present is effing irrelevant. You get the current going rate. Duh. 3% So there's that DUUUUUUUUUUDE. 600kWh/month for a 3 bed with pool is pretty standard. The maths is fine. Your assumptions are bollox.
We hat about maintaining the system. Cleaning the panels. So far most suppliers disappear when a inverter goes west . Hope you don't have to get the roof fixed .most of the time the roof can be comprised by the solar installation .. they keep me in work
All reasons John started by saying his website only uses reputable installers - giving the cowboys the middle finger. Disappearing installers and shoddy workmanship are the hallmark of shoddy workmanship by cowboy outfits. The cheapest quote turns out to NOT be the cheapest in the long run.
I did everything myself , bought new equipment mostly from ebay and paid about 6,5k€ for 16,8kwp, 40 jinko 420w ntype all black pannels, solaredge se16k, SE net meter and 20 p850 optimizers. No battery but year based 1:1 net metering with 11,5kw permission to feed the network. Monthly bill dropped to 9€. System ROE is about 1,5 years. Same system would cost about 20k€+ if I had gone the regular path.
I like the idea of solar from a continuity point of view, a kind of backup for when supplies become unreliable. From a ROI perspective if the system only lasts 10 years it is zero, albeit a hedge against price rises, and if it lasts 20 years the ROI is half of your 10% to my simplistic mind. If a 20 year lifespan is likely then it is still a good investment.
Minor point: the EV scenario doesn't reduce emissions by 1/2. The increased electricity usage is significant and has significant emissions associated, especially if it's an SUV-weight EV going 15km/year. Add to that the manufacturing impact, which applies more than once per vehicle replaced given the much shorter life of an EV vs. a diesel vehicle, and you're very likely increasing net emissions.
Have you ever looked into the energy footprint of refining crude oil into petrol or diesel. It's astounding high and seldom talked about. Plugging an EV into a a "dirty" grid is in fact better for the environment than burning "refined" oil in the form of petrol or diesel
Garbage. The increased electricity usage for charging the EV has zero increased emissions associated with it, other than the additional panels and battery storage required. Who says its an SUV weight EV? Who said the previous ICE was ditched prematurely to obtain and EV? Who said EVs have shorter lives? Garbage in, garbage out. That's how your maths is going.
@@csjrogerson2377 he wasn't talking about charging the EV on solar. He was talking about buying an EV instead of paying for solar power installation. Also, his solar system used all available space, so no, there'd be no bonus panels. Also also, he wasn't able to fully meet his electricity requirements with the solar system without charging an EV, and even if he could charge an EV off his solar system alone, that would be power that was now not going into the grid, power which the coal, gas and oil plants would have to generate in its absence. No matter how you charge your EV, that power could have gone into the grid and must then be generated elsewhere to offset the usage. Also also also, in the hypothetical he's replacing 1 of 2 diesel SUVs with an EV. An EV simply is not capable of replacing a diesel SUV, but if one is being honest in the formulation of the hypothetical, one must get as close to functionally equivalent as possible, so it must be an equally big vehicle, with equally high cargo capacity. If one were replacing a Toyota Corolla, one would get a smaller, lighter EV, and one would still have an excessive environmental impact from manufactuting, still a much-shortened useful vehicle life, and still a higher gross avg CO2/km over the lifetime of the vehicle.
I just paid $20k cash ( literally) for 12kw of panels ( BYD ) Fronius Inverter and 19.3kw battery stack ( BYD ) up here in Darwin. My instruction to my contractor mate was simply “ large spec to future proof the house for any new buyer / good quality / no budget” I’m now making $70 a month. It was never the intention to make money - I just wanted a $0 invoice which I’ve achieved. Best money I’ve ever spent 🎉🎉
Only 12. You got stiffed then. Largest domestic systems are 14kw with 32 panels. Smart people use an ABN and claim working from home = 22kw commercial system with 54 panels, which is what I have on my house.
Think solar is great option especially if want to be off the grid with batteries. . But my electric cost in Florida is US 11.6 cents a kWh so it would take decades to get the money back if the parts last that long. . Plus installing thousands in equipment would increase the home value making my property tax bill go up. And it seems more and more insurance companies will not insure homes with solar or jack up the rates.
The main reason I got solar was I have so little confidence on the reliability of our system going forward with renewables. The way we are going it's just going to get more and more unreliable and more expensive. Our household includes two elderly parents and others that spend a lot of time at home. It makes more sense for people that don't work away from home.
We just had a solar system installed earlier this yr - Enphase micro inverter IQ8 (25yr warranty), Sunpower panels (40 yr warranty). If we go the Enphase batteries (modular), 15 yr warranty. We are fuelling 100% of our EV with our rooftop solar. We’ve never charged at night off the grid or at a charging station and are nearly at 5000km now. Once we hit 50000km we’ve saved about $6500-7000……. The car is supercharging our return on investment on top of the power saved. Battery just doesn’t stack up, multiple installers said the same. In saying that I paid extra to have the set up battery ready, just plug in when/if the time comes - Or if blackouts become a problem, Enphase IQ8’s turn your house into its own micro grid with batteries, meaning if the grid gets blown up, your house runs normal as if nothing happened, forever if needed, unlike 99% of other ‘grid tied’ systems…..once their battery is depleted you have a useless solar system unable to work until the grid is fixed. Worth looking into if paying the $.
some extra cooling for the roof due to those panels too. awaiting the install of my system (thanks JC + Green), nominal 5kw + 13kwh battery. the panels will be covering nearly the entire section of my roof where it's being installed, and that roof is a cathedral ceiling type, so i'll also get an insulation bonus from them. also getting the Heat-pump and induction top done at the same time - the irony here is that the house , built in 1979, was originally all-electric, but the 80's was cheap for gas, now i'm going back.
If you own an EV, you're probably going to need to get a solar system + battery anyway. *If* EV ownership takes off to the degree that the gumbiment wants, then the cost of any eelek-trickery supplied will increase as it mirrors demand. It's us on fixed pensions, without the means to afford the solar/battery for the house will forever be shackled to the tender mercies of power companies and as Morrison called it... "good old can do capitalism" Oh and congrats on attracting so many "booty bots" in the comments. As I type this there are more of them than genuine comments
Widespread EV addoption might be less of a problem than you think. The problem with electricity is usually for more peak power than total energy consumption. In a few years with better batteries EVs can actually make the grid easier to run by feeding power back at high demand times.
MORE THAN 1 WAY TO SKIN A CAT! I am in WA and in our previous house I installed a 5kW Sunnyboy inverter and 6.2kW of panels... initially it was great 47 cents a kW feed in tariff sadly dropping to 7 cents after the 10 year anniversary. Our original system cost approx $30,000 and reduced by $10k through rebates. In December last year we fitted a 10kW inverter to our new property with 30 X 440 watt panels giving us 13.2kW of panels. Total cost $7,700. Initially our consumption meter to restrict feed in to the grid wasn't fitted & our best generation day was 96kW... most of that going into the grid. In Western Australia there is no feed in tariffs for systems with an inverter above 5kW. Eventually our solar provider fitted the consumption meter which restricts out feed into the grid to 1500 watts max per hour. When purchasing the system we got quoted roughly $11k to fit a Telsa 2 13.5kW battery. Taking into account the cost of the battery & the benefit of doing so we decided not to proceed with a battery. Our 2 monthly power bills average $220 which include the service fee which is roughly $1 a day and also GST. Looking at ways to reduce our out of pocket living expenses I looked at our water bills and was horrified at the cost to maintain our garden. Doing some research we decided to install a bore & after spending approx $10k to install a bore, bore pump and upgrade our retic and the benefits have been massive. This time last year our water usage was 1200 litres a day on average our comparable this year reduced our bill to $38 averaging 300 litres a day. Living in a region without limited days per week for watering we water 8 zones from our bore at 65 litres a minute for approx 3 hours a day every day of the week. The best benefit to our watering is by 6 30 am our solar system provides enough power to run the pump giving us free power and water. We are looking forward to our next water bill which will be a good indicator of how much saving we're getting from our bore; our total bill last January was for an average of 2,000 litres a day resulting in a bill of $500+ for a 2 month billing cycle, we expect a bill of roughly $40 or less. There are more than one way to skin a cat! In time batteries or alternative storage systems will become more affordable until then I can't see any benefit of installing a battery especially if you're still connected to the grid paying a service fee & GST.
We had solar fitted 8 months ago and already seen a massive difference in bills (yes obviously we paid $10k for the solar plus had a $4k rebate thing), but it’s just nice to bung on aircon without worrying about the cost. Especially in Brisbane atm. Plus our house value has increased far more than the cost we paid. We had a bit of a windfall so didn’t not ice the outlay tbh
show us the install plus also are you looking at other upgrades to the house to use more of that solar and battery system? e.g. induction cooking or heat pump water
Very informative. This is the intelligent thinking that works world wide, unlike EVs that are useless in many places like the middle of the jungle anywhere! The only place the solar is not helpful is apartment blocks, the people cannot all use the same roof.
Yes please, make a vid on battery system. Could you include the reduced fire risk of LFP battery ? Mrs is nervous about installing battery. I've got 8.3kwh system on the roof. NSW govn rebate this month has made the battery look attractive.
Yes I meant to include that one as well but forgot - my mortgage is 6.15% - and if i put in 25 grand that's a great saving each month PLUS in the event of an emergency I can re-draw it whereas with panels I cant say - come and take 5 panels away I need a quick 10 grand for a new motor in the Commodore........
@@diydrivenGA lol champ you keep saying the same thing on every comment . If you can redraw on your home then you simply do that to fix the commodore . Paying the mortgage and power bills every month would take a hit on your wages . Maybe can sell the commodore to pay the next power bill ?
I would love to see the breakdown of the battery upgrade please. Incidentally I always thumbs up a video I watch out of courtesy but this one I actually did like! On another note, a quantity surveyor recently pointed out to me the much overlooked advantage of solar and battery on your house. It increases the value greater than the cost of installation due to the sensible fact the purchasers look at it and realise you have already done the farnarkling for them and there is value to that.
there is not much difference with a solar system with or without a battery in terms of repayment. however investment with the battery is obviously bigger.
That's why I'm adding batteries to my place. I'll be selling in 2-3 years and live in an area that predominantly votes "green" and is full of "thinkers" rather than "doers". They are happy to pay a premium for somebody else to research, deal with sales people, negotiate & project manage almost anything. I'll be retiring the IGHW next year and installing a Heat Pump HW. Get the gas disconnected, put a 1000 litre water barrel in the back yard and sell the place as a "eco-home" in 2026.
Hmmm....how often do the batteries, panels and inverter need to be replaced? Up here in Cana-duh it's not uncommon to have 100 days of no sun in winter.
Heat and sun exposure kills panels. In canada 25 years will see panels degrade in performance from 100% to 80% in 25 years … if the panels are reasonable quality. If the sun is hot near the equator and the panels get a lot of salt spray it’s more like 12-16 years. My panels paid for themselves in 6 years. I wish it was double the size but I ran out of roof. Seriously considering a new shed just for the panels because Australia electric bills suck 🫏🍆
@theairstig9164 Stop calling them electric bills. They are electricity bills. Electric is a verb - that is to say it must impart movement. If your bill was electric it would actually shock you! Yeah, I know, queue the Benny Hill joke...It does bloody shock me!
Panels are probably 20-25 years. Inverter probably 10 years as long as it isn't installed in full sun (or 20-25 years for a micro inverter). Battery probably 10-15 years.
Hello there. A nice take on the topic, I loved it. Solars combined with batteries is a great investment. You made one major mistake, though: you need to deduct depreciation from your return to arrive at the correct ROI. Assuming your installation will live for the next 28 years, its depreciation will almost halve the ROI indicator.
I can't remember but his ROI calc also doesn't include the increasing cost of electricity or being in a VPP and selling back to the grid at realistic prices.
Can't remember the specs but I do know the dollar values. I spent $7,500 for pannels and inverter. No battery. Haven't had an electric bill for over two years and the excess they pay me (feed-in tariff) I think it's called, pays for my natural gas usage and the connection fee of $85. per quarter. My account credit continues to grow. In a few months it will have paid for itself. Most sensible money I've ever spent. And I'm in the A.C.T. Very hot and very cold and few mild days.
As noted elsewhere the 'after' power bill John showed had no export shown whatsoever so not feed in tariff. From that I can only assume John is somehow managing to attain the optimum solar owner's aspiration of total self consumption, which is the maximum return one can gain as the value of their generation then is essentially the value of whatever otherwise purchased electricity is offset by that self consumption. And similarly to John's glee in seeing retail electricity prices rise due to the improved ROI gained as a result so too does the gain from such offsetting improve. One other factor that wasn't mentioned is the upcoming arrival of V2G in Australia due to the changes to standard AS/NZS 4777.2. This will not only change the comparative advantages of EVs vs home batteries but will also further improve the significant synergistic effects of combining EVs & PVs. The future cometh, ready or not.
if you want to look at each power generating sector for both cost and emission plus how much they charge per Mwh then have a look at opennem and it has many years worth of data
Hi John, My understanding is that the company you recommend for supply and Install actually receives your bill from AGL after install and you pay zero for an agreed period (2?, 5yrs?) i.e. customer never sees a bill. Does that still happen? I got a quote from them about 8 mths ago and this is what I was told.
I already had a 6kW solar system and had a 13.3kW battery installed through JC’s solar friends. It cost me $10,640 back in July. My last two bills have been $0 (and I’m presently in credit by about $56). Our ducted aircon chews the power. (Our solar was installed in 2010 when we were being paid a feed-in tariff of 68c/kWh.)
10 years ago after retiring we bought a rural house that had an off grid solar system installed . We never have to worry about blackouts or power bills . The little use our car gets driving to town once every 4 to 6 weeks for supplies make buying an expensive EV unpractical for us.
IF you must get an EV - solar (+/- battery) first, means less filthy coal in the electron mix - post manufacture of the Chinese export quality Solar and LiFe cells. (ROI - beats money in the bank.) Solar alone makes daytime AC, bill neutral all summer long (that cool feeling).. Hip Roofs are the bane of solar utilisation - designers get back to gables and skillions - pointing in solar relevant directions - also makes for functional eaves - shade walls in summer, expose them in winter - protect southern walls from weather ingress - functional overhangs and window awnings). My Solar involved solar 60m from the house - we ran 16,,2 4C+E 60m and AC coupled the solar string inverter to the main board ( a 70m cat 6 data cable (2x one for solar monitoring, the other for the shed internet (inverter online connection).) completed the installation .. Solar FIT are to the depths of hell recently - daily grid access charges are to the moon - fortunately my original install (6kW + 30% panel) was under $13k AUD, and my little shed battery - aftermarket - offgrid, another ~$4k AUD (10-kWh + 3kW inverter for vital necessities - in the extremis) - not so much $$$ into it... (energy sufficiency is a great game, especially if it results in safe ROI of over 10%) better than insider trading most days .. Anecdote: feed in tariff is trending to "net zero" - basically being limited to under $2 per day for the median sized - or retailer preference of "5kw export limitation"' on compliant systems.. (I think I am now getting 10c/kWh for 1-10 kWh/day - then it drops to ~5c/kWh. If I export 20kWh, that gives $1.75 / day. If I offset 20kWh of consumption at ~35c/kWh I save $7 / day.. Saving on consumption, while ever there is any net import is the cheaper investment -- on greater than a 3x better ROI. ($2.55k/Ann or ROI of ~25.5% on a $10k install - we got tilts and LG panels with SolarEdge optimisers, a "gold plated system" - add in another $200 in FiT and that is 27% RoI on $10k "invested" ) Summer generation is over 40kWh, winter is under 15kWh - siting and aspect varies results greatly - we get to see "full sun" sun from 9am through to 5pm (>2kW power ) in summer, though the winter "time in the sun" 2kW timing is from 10.30am to !2.15pm. - daily access to the grid costs ~$1.05 here so offsetting this to zero is nice, banking the summer tariff to make up for a few kWh imported in winter is also nice (summertime AC without bill shock is great. Our mean solar production during the year is 750kWh/month - total consumption is 265mWh/month (imports only 97kWh - solar hot water is getting old at 20+ years on the roof and reduces even offpeak heating to near zero on a / month average - NB, it has been damaged by hail ever - (my parents solar hot water system was partially smashed by hail last year - interestingly it wasn't noticed to be not working - it had been there nearly 40 years, now economical/ more fungible, to replace with additional solar PV than thermal solar - that was not the case in the 80_s.) Purely anectotal.
The difference between Sydney and Broken Hill is that 20,000 are less important and fill fewer state seats in Parliament than the 5 million in Sydney and 1200 km. Must be a market for solar and batteries out given their recent days without power they just experienced even with their giant solar farm and wind power farm inverted to the state grid in preference to the good citizens of the Silver City. Have been hearing all their woes from family members.
You need to compare using Salary sacrifice where EV is 100% FBT free especially if you are on the top rate of tax (Thanks Albo and stage 3 tax cuts). It makes a huge difference compared to an ICE car where it usually about 40% pretax vs 100% for the EV. Also Bowen has just announced V2G has been approved for Australia. I currently don't have a house battery and divert all excess solar into the car. I will now be able to use the car (hopefully a minor part change or future EV) to cover our peak usage and would consider going over to Amber to play the wholesale electricity game.
You should consider Amber electric, which has wholesale plans, and you can sell your battery power back at peak times to maximize your ROI. They control the battery and dump it when you can get 60c to export it... Or even more.
NZ power price comparison. I pay 0.23 per kw, I’m what’s considered a lay user at approx $100 a month in power, the rest of my $400 bill is supply charge. I live 4.6km from the edge of town but having a power line costs me 3 times more than the power I use
I installed 17kw of panels in August 2021. I've saved $9,200 so far, and the entire system cost me about 11k. This time next year I'll be in profit, for the next 15 years. The panels have a 25 year warranty, and i haven't washed them yet because they're on the second storey roof
The warranty is only useful if the company that manufactured them is still around in 25 years. And like most warranties, if it fails on year 24, it's not a 100% replacement. They all have the same limitations on the warranty where you get far less than you think
@gregb1599 yep, actually if they fail after 2 years, let alone 24, same applies. The warranty text explicitly states that they'll pay for a replacement or cash value, won't cover installation. I have sunpower panels, so hoping they'll last
An episode of two halves. First an ROI analysis that suggests a 10 % per year is ok. That is it will take approximately 10 years before you payback and save money. No information on government subsides- tax payer money in helping purchase. No cradle-to-grave analysis. And why we all should feel compelled to purchase and maintain significant power generation equipment on our properties, that once was the responsibility of the government. Your most important half was the desire to do the right thing!if we can afford it. I am not impressed with people who solely bang on how much money it will save you. I’m in my late seventies and will never, realistically, see a complete return and cost saving.
That's a good bill reduction. Our average bill is about $200/ month with 6 kW PV & no battery & an EV. The car, doing about 1300ks/month uses about half the energy, though only costs about $20 for each month. (Due to ultra cheap daytime tariffs) Hoping to get a battery for Xmas. The daytime grid is only about 30% fossil, due to the grid being flooded with cheap solar.
Hi John, Love your channel. I understand your financial argument. Just curious, for EV's you calculate how long it takes to become carbon neutral. How long will it take for your solar to become carbon neutral? Making solar cells and batteries require energy input after all. I haven't seen this explained properly. Just quercous. Cheers
Then John's reasoning, calculations and solution don't apply to you. However, there are more of us living in stand alone dwellings who this video does fit.
You could get the Strata to fit a solar PV system to the common property roof area and then use a distributed system to distribute it to the residents. Allume Energy has a system for this and it works out cheaper than buying individually. I'm in a strata townhouse complex and was able to get strata permission to cover my roof area in panels.
Do both...then it all makes sense. Haven't had a bill (been in credit) for 2 years with a 7.6kw system and 10.2kw battery. Have had a Model 3 in the household for 6 mths....got a $24 bill over winter quarter....next quarter up to November - $98.00 in credit on following bill---Saving $2500 - $3000 per year plus fuel savings. on a $16k investment
There is a problem with storage batteries if you have a weatherboard house. You need to add an extra $6-8k for a free standing stainless steel enclosure and depending on the size of the battery packs it may be up to $10 extra including associated cabling etc or even a Besser block out house incase the batteries shit themselves. Yes you can install a powder coated steel Rittal enclosure but they tend to rust out in 5-8 years or you could bolt sheets of 25mm cement panels on the walls but you're still at risk of the fire spreading.
All things being equal, rooftop solar looks like a pretty good investment, at first glance. It looks like the system you have could pay for itself, through subsequent savings, in approximately 10 years. But in 10 years' time, it would be interesting to consider how much of your system's efficiency is lost through actual solar panel and battery depreciation? And let's not forget that we're yet to see Li-Ion batteries last more than 10 years, let alone retain at least 80 percent of their original efficiency. What about the panels? Any damage to them, from things like hail or other heavy wind-swept debris, like tree branches broken off during a vicious storm, also adds to the original cost through subsequent replacements. Do those solar panels need regular cleaning? I wouldn't be surprised if the system costs end up increasing by at least 10-20 percent in that decade, which would then mean that it would take a longer time to pay itself off. Also, let's not forget that Li-Ion batteries suffer from over-heating, so sufficient cooling is needed. What if passive cooling is not enough and it actually needs power-consuming active cooling? With the increased risk of spontaneous combustion due to insufficient cooling, how much does that add to the risk of a house fire that fire-fighters know better than to try to put it out through the normal extinguishing equipment they now have at their disposal? Will the house insurance premiums go up if your insurer gets wind of that consideration? How would that then compare to the normally grid-supplied rate increases in that decade? Granted, it's hard to ignore the mad rush everyone's in to jump on the 'solar energy uptake' bandwagon, but given how inefficient today's PV and electricity storage technology is, I'm still not convinced that this rush isn't largely misguided. Yes, the autonomy from the vagaries of grid-supplied volts is tempting, but at what cost? And that's only the issues we know now, but what about technological progress that would see a whole new standard relegate today's investments obsolete and/or downright costly? Lithium and other rare-earth metals are finite, as in non-renewable, resources that are already in short supply, so that's an added reason to not rush into this just for the sake of lowering one's CO2 emissions. What about disposal costs, both in environmental terms as well as financial ones? I'm not yet convinced that all the things I've mentioned here have been given sufficient significance or consideration.
I installed a 3kw system in 2012. That system still produces the same kwh as when first turned on. 22kwh on a sunny December day and 7kwh on a sunny June day. Has done so for 12 years without a single issue. It's on a garage roof facing North (located in SA on the Yorke Peninsula). I have never cleaned the panels - the rain does that. I installed a second system (5kw with 6.66kw panels) on my house roof in a east/west orientation in 2017. That system too functions perfectly after 7 years without manual cleaning. Your concerns are a non issue.
What is your view of John Robson and Climate Discussion Nexus? He seems reasonable. I live in the Chicago Illinois area. We have 176 cloudy days and 105 party cloudy days a year. I'm not sure solar here would have the same return on investment. Roughly $0.16/KWh.
@@gerrycooper56 no, they are not made anymore. SEA. it was really expensive compared to nowadays. about 6500$ for 2,2kw. so that would be about 10 000$ in todays $. selectronic is also australian made. and very reliable.
they don't need cleaning. cleaning them does not make that much difference. dust though like after a dust storm is a different matter. but then you have clean everything else as well.
Is solar considered a bonus or installed equipment wrt rentals? Rentals you need to maintain and repair/replace equipment if it starts to not perform correctly. E.g. dishwasher, air conditioner. What about solar batteries?
You a landlord? Install solar for your tenants. Forget the battery. You are obligated to maintain the system along with everything else bolted to the house. Solar from a reputable installer will outlast all the warranties.
I installed solar in 2010 for $3,000 after a $8,000 rebate from Abbott or Gillard or Rudd (I forget) and I haven’t had a bill since. 50c / kWH feed in rate. The ROI is about 30% pa 🤷♂️
Well John - you cant say I don't try my very best to generate lots of comments for the channel........ please remember that for the next Bluetti giveaway......!
I have solar, small 3 bedroom house, 2 teenagers, solar hot water, my power bill 2 months ago was $5.01 for the month. It’s not always that low, but hey …
John, in between shaving that rude head of yours, you must do a story on the ludicrous home-to-street EV charging set-ups. I have seen pics of cables running from houses and onto trees then down to cars. crazy stuff.
I've done alright from the install. 17kW on the roof and 19.2kW Sungrow battery on a relatively flat roof in SE QLD.
The battery is usually back at 100% by 10am, so most of the rest is straight into the grid.
Power bills were getting jacked up and we were at around -$900/quarter. After the install our credit is around +$200/quarter.
Our average daily consumption from the grid for the last quarter is 2.18kW/day, average consumption for a house with the same number of residents is apparently 19.78kW.
No real changes from our usage (other than not using the oven as much as it really sucks down the power) and I don't care about the cost of running the aircon if the sun is up, hell I even have a 2nd hand aircon in the shed and the panels easily keep pace with it all. A really good option for a 36 degree 70% humidity SE QLD day and you want to work on the car.
I am with you in this. NE NSW flat roof, and half your batteries. I have freedom to use anything anytime and NO blackouts. During a storm last week, neighbours were out and we were watching Netflix, baking a cake, pool heated a d air con ON for the entire 2h of blackout! That's priceless!
@@henrique8490Holy crap, TWO hours?! That is unlivable! Seriously though, 2 hours is nothing. A cheap inverter generator would take care of that and you wouldn’t even have gone through a gallon of gasoline. Where I live, the power goes out almost every single day, so solar would be amazing here with a sizeable battery bank to boot, specially since we get tons of sun, it’s hot as hell here year round and I run my A/C 24/7 as the difference between summer and “winter” is 10 degrees, so instead of it being 90+ degrees F, it’ll be in the 80’s and 70’s at night, or 60’s if you’re in th le peak of the mountains where nobody lives. Only problem is, all those amazing deals the ‘muricans get with products like EG4 batteries, inverters, and cheap solar panels aren’t available here cuz nobody ships em here. They’ll gladly ship them to the other side of the planet thousands of miles away, though. Here, you can only buy from one company who will ream you with a system that’s inadequate and all you can buy is a Tesla PowerWall for an insane price.
Wish all I had to worry about was a 2 hour blackout that rarely happens lol. If the power doesn’t come back within an hour or 2 here, you’re waiting until the next day (or several days) to get it back, only for it to go back out shortly after. Best case scenario, you get it ruuully ruuuly late after which you have to leave the house anyway or your day’s already been ruined, or your night cuz you haven’t gotten any sleep.
Wow. @@groundcontrol6876that is tough living. Here it was an exceptional blackout as apparently someone was "lightned up"... but you are right. Here is only 5h from Syd/Bne and even though it took months to get the batteries. I can only imagine what that would be for maintenance in a remote area...
I got mine 18 odd years ago, I've not had bill for that time, every one said it would be 20 years before it's paid for its self, no bills for 18 years was great, it allowed me to redirect monies into living a little better, very informative video ,thank you
here 22 years
Must be nearly time for an upgrade …. there goes the savings.
@merv190 just s9ld the house moving to a new location
I got a solar and battery system through your links and recommendation six months ago and I have enjoyed zero power bills-and that was Vico winter! The company was excellent to deal with. Thanks to Mr Greeen and John Cadogan.
@@PeterBinns Yes, my battery install upgrade was also done by Green Co. through JC. They were good to deal with.
I live in South Australia. I am off grid. I power my EV from solar. The house batteries for the house is lead assed batteries I use glow watt batteries for the EV.
It always gives me the heebie-jeebies when i hear you talk about north facing solar panels! But then, I turn my phone upside down, continue to watch your video and everything makes sense!😂
Cheers from the part of the world, where christmas means winter!
Great video, BTW!
🤣
Same here (Cheshire UK) - south facing for us in the Northern Hemisphere.
Not much charging potential in the last few days due to snow!😅
Hi John, I haven't read all the comments BUT, at no stage did you mention what your feed in tariff is. THAT in my opinion is the catch, it keeps getting adjusted DOWN so whatever grand plan you envisage gets eroded away by your energy provider moving the goal posts!
I can relate to many of the reasons you have outlined John, including the objectionable prices that energy companies charge for power. If I buy energy off the grid it can cost from 20-50c per kwh, but if I feed energy to the grid, all they can offer me now is 3.3c per kwh. And then they charge a daily fee on top of that. They are essentially getting the first 30+ kwhs of my energy for free, and paying a pittance after that. I felt like I was being shafted every day. So I have upgraded my Sungrow system to run my all electric home, and gone completely off grid. I now dont have electricity or gas bills, and simply requested my retailer to disconnect to avoid the daily charge. This does require a largish system that cant be justified on ROI, and also a backup just in case, but entirely doable. And satisfying.
Agree, I’m completely disconnected too…very satifying
I've had an off-grid cabin since 2011. We only use it 4-6 days a month so it's only been a problem once. After a blizzard we used kerosene lamps for light and the wood stove for heat, cooking and to melt snow for water. It was actually kind of nice and peaceful.
@@Noah_E Yeah nice, that is real off-grid living. Unfortunately I am in the middle of suburbia.
It's not the FIT that makes the money. Scheduling power usage to use solar rather than grid supplied power is where the savings are made.
@@bradgray123 - FIT was 42c when I installed my first solar system in 2012. It used to be where the savings came from, Retail back then in SA was a piddly 25c. Now best I can get is 10c on the first 14kwh each day and 4c on the rest. I'm retired so we changed our power usage times to the shoulder rate 10am to 3pm @ 37c. Off peak from 1am to 6am is 40c, and peak is 6am to 10am and 3pm to 1am @ 55c. I'm installing a battery this week on tuesday.
Hey John,
We installed 10kWs of solar capacity on the roof and about 10kWh of battery out the back about 12 months ago. My wife has a cooking business at home. We're reasonably frugal with energy, and our average quarterly power bill from AGL in South Australia was about $500. we were spending about $2000 per year on electricity!
Our system is a midrange system and has good guarantees on performance. our annual spend with AGL over the last 12 months, $120!
Our payback should be about 8 years.
Our reason for going solar, pending retirement and a drop in income that is associated with that. We inherited a little money so we had the cash, which we would otherwise have frittered away on crap.
In retirement, after we have done the obligatory lap of the nation towing the converted aluminium box an EV will fit right into our carport, we have had hybrid and PHEV vehicles since 2006. With my wife not using the solar energy to cook the excess from the roof will go into an EV, and not gifted to AGL at a few cents per kWh.
Stick it up oil companies and AGL at the same time!
We installed a 10.92kw with an 8.25kw Solar Edge inverter, no battery currently. We get shade at times on each panel so solar edge offered the best solution for us.
The best advice I can give to anyone is that it’s not just about what you save. We use more electricity than we ever have. No more thinking about turning the aircon on, if the sun is out it’s on.
Hi John, not sure if anyone else has made this point but the solar panels and battery have a finite life. You therefore need to factor this into the return on investment. If it lasts for 20 years ( I’m being generous), you need to amortise 5% of the purchase price per annum…reducing the return on investment by around 50% per annum to 5%.
Another factor is the system degrades overtime so the output of the system is going to be noticeable in say 10 years time.
Also John only compared the solar investment against an ANZ term deposit. Firstly there are other term deposit providers that offer better rates than ANZ. And secondly, there are much better ways to invest your money. Term deposits are only one step better than a savings account.
With solar, your investment depreciates quicker than a term deposit. At the end of 20 years you get your money you invested back, minus inflation. Don't think you would get much change back from your solar materials after 20 years.
You're correct Re. price increases, but as July 2024, in Cairns , Ergon reduced the solar tariff by about 0.01 cent/Khour. Bureaucracy will always have their hands in You're pocket !
Watching John talk 100% sense from the cold,grey old UK listening to my 20 year old gas boiler making geriatrc noises.
Our system was $23k 9.68kw of panels plus sungrow sh15T 3 phase inverter and 16kwh of sungrow batteries, all installed plus rewired existing 6kw panels to the new inverter. Because the beefy inverter, the entire house is backedup, all 3 phases including the aircon. We've not drained the battery completely during a peak period. Its awesome.
That is too expensive, I made it for $AU3500 for 16kwh battery and 5kw solis inverter. I used 16x EVE304 ah cells.
And how many years will it take to claw back that cost in savings?
@dingopisscreek we used to spend anywhere between $10 to $15 a day on power. Now its about $0.50 to $1.50.
@@forgetfulduck, I don’t have solar and our av daily cost is $1.35 ….. I ain’t spending 25k to save that.
@@merv190 agreed. You won't need to do anything if your power bill is that cheap.
Id kill for the tech to have safe miniature nuclear reactor at my house.
Get a friend's pacemaker battery and go from there.
I like to have one too.
Was thinking of bolting a reactor on to the side of the kids swing set in the backyard, as there were two holes where the optional slide attaches, but was over a billion dollars in cost and the regulatory approvals would have been a nightmare.
a nuclear reactor in every house? Maybe we'll talk about in a 100 years
@@bubbleboy468 Getting your dog neutered would be a regulatory nightmare if the Australian government had it's way.
Have solar. Paid back a few years ago. In fact, haven't paid a bill since 2020 although that's been helped by WA subsidies.
Helped by subsidies....read....paid for by taxpayers.
I think all WA households (regardless of energy source) got $2500 credit from government since covid. Big fat mining income...
@@Guvament_bs - If one's household pays significant net tax - they may be thankful of a one-off subsidy... (the multitudes heading to centerlink for an array of benefits are by and large involved in bulk middleclass subsidisation- until the kids leave hone...)
I pulled 2mwhs in September with a 15,6kw array, you need eastern and western facing panels to catch the morning and afternoon sun if you can of course.
I resent paying the power bill more than I dislike paying for petrol.
Yeah but when you get rid of the power bill? You can delete the petrol bill as well.
I installed 20 REC panels a few years ago. During summer they work really well to power my pool pumps and the house. However in winter in Melbourne they don't produce much at all due to the many cloudy days. Did the numbers on a battery system and couldn't get a reasonable payback.
Very informative video John, well explained.
Would like to see detailed battery install in the future.
Cheers
John, thanks for your explanation of house solar vs EV ROI.
I'd love to see a video on your solar system please
Lucky you had Sherpa Tensing to guide your solar installers onto that roof.
My nose bled just watching the footage.
😜😂😂😉
I'm in TAS and am lucky to have the perfect aspect off North East. Installed it in the middle of winter and it's now paying for itself. We did take advantage of the 3 year interest free opportunity down here though. Got all the data too thanks to a friendly inverter and home assistant setup
HeyJohn,
It's the infrastructure and the people that have to maintain this, that make electricity expensive.
Insightful as usual John - double thumbs 👍👍
I must be one of the extremely few here in NZ to not only have a zero daily charge but also have one of the highest solar buyback rates of 17 cents per Kwh. So I am happy. Of course, our power supply is ridiculously reliable, so a battery is a waste of money as its payback is never.
I got sungrows system back in 2021, haven’t had 1 bill since.. the inverter did shit itself may 2023.. but had a new one send to me within 2 weeks.
Saved me from a lot of blackouts here in Regional WA. It cost 15500$ with rebates back then
I can’t accept John without mockery of car manufacturers 😂, in this video he is way too serious 😂
Its the Standing (daily connection) charge I resent, especially here in the UK
It’s guaranteed profit for the retailers. Take that out and you will have literally a monopoly in a year
who pays for the poles & wires?
@@bradgray123 - Poles and wires were built and paid for by taxpayers. Then privatised. The retailers collect the daily fixed charge, and pass on some of it to the new private owners of the grid that the tax payers built in the first place.
35 years later, and I still have PTSD because of Fourier and LaPlace.
Listen, don’t mention the war. I mentioned it once, but I think I got way with it, all right?
Once upon a time you could probably integrate a chicken and differentiate water.
Took COVID money added 6 kw to 3, I had. Got bonus for adding water heat pump, that's where the saving was for me. Had my first bill in 17 months last August $113. Now in credit $140
Also added panels to south side which is a must in vic if you want early morning watts in summer definitely run the algorithm on that. Specially if you use power earlyin the morning.
Not worth me getting a battery.
Always look for low day rate as well as best buy back😊
Thanks for your vid.
I’m in Tasie with a 6.6kwh system and 8 months after changing the metering from peek and OFFpeak and the supplier with TOU metering
I now have + $ 1000.00 , that’s credit.
cheers
ROI 👍
1) Should you have a sinking fund for capital renewal ?
2) Can you go off grid totally and piss off the supply charges ?
Home solar & battery ... a solid plus & good to have. Toss an EV in for even more & 'fuel' from that same setup. But doing just one ... home solar is a very solid option.
I didn't realize going solar was so cheap in Australia ... no brainer, from the sounds of it.
I’ve installed 12kW solar on new built home. Can’t wait to move in later this month.
Hi John
I too have an install booked in for Dec 16th.
I currently have a 6.5kw system on single phase and a FIT of 7.36 cents per Kwhr.
The only problem is with a single phase system here in WA, your inverter cannot exceed 5KW. This means I'd be drawing from the grid to supplement the extra draw during higher demand times.
So I thought I'd stick it to Western Power by going to 18.2KW of Sunpower panels and 25KW of Sungrow SBH250 batteries with the 15KW Sungrow hybrid 3 phase inverter. The SBH batteries allow 50amps continuous output allowing me to run the entire home including the aircon. Going 3 phase is the only option for me and this allows my system, with blackout protection, to go completely off grid if necessary. There is a changeover switch to enable the grid incase of solar system failure.
I'm glad you thought Sungrow were a good system to go with as I did too. I'm looking forward in seeing how the system behaves.
P.S We lose the FIT here in WA once we go to 3 phase. It's not worth it anyway and the system can be programmed to ramp down so as not to feed into the grid.
Hi John, We got a 6.6kW system on our house November 2021. Back in May this year we got another 6.6kW on the Southern side of our roof. Total cost is about $11k. I estimate it will be paid back in about seven years or so. Currently at about $5400 payback and it will now be a lot quicker. We are self sufficient from about 6:45 in the morning till about 7 at night at the moment. . With AGL on the solar savers plan we only have a $16 bill more than halfway through this quarter.
I do not want to have a Lithium Ion battery anywhere near my house. Also I should have at least 10 years or more out of the inverters before they need replacement. Even before the upgrade, we were only averaging $60 a month in usage so $200+ extra for paying off a battery was dumb. So far today used 30 odd kW with only about 3.5kW from the grid mainly because we used the A/C on dry mode till about 2:am. Usually only about 4-5kW from the grid per day. Exporting about 40+ kW per day with a 5 kW export limit.
May get a bit dire if the Fit drops but still saving while the sun shines.
Set and forget compared to having a fast depreciating EV that costs a motza to insure and could burn your house down.
I am keen to look at it for our power bills and to recharge a PHEV as my power bill and petrol bill are not small collectively!
I just have panels and they've been great. Might upgrade to a battery.
Do it.
I first installed a 3kw system on my garage in 2012 (cost 10k). Then installed a 5kw system with 6'66kw panels on my house roof in 2017 (cost 6.5k). The savings have been great, but the heavily slashed FIT and skyrocketing retail here in South Oz have drastically cut those savings right down.
My Tesla Powerwall 2 battery gets installed on Tuesday next week 12 November. It's costing me $14,800 to do it (needs extra long 10mm cables due to location of inverters in the garage and the meter box being on the opposite side of the yard). Normal price for a PW2 is 14.2k at the moment.
ps. Both my solar installs have already paid for themselves. The smaller system was the slowest to pay for itself, but that too is in the black now after 12 years.
Batteries are only useful if your grid is unreliable. Otherwise, payback is never for most people.
I just did the calculations and first thought you were wrong but then realised I’d made a mistake. I am absolutely stunned by how much pollution is generated from 1kWh.
Solar gives me guilt free AC during summer in qld. Love it.
Shade of chimney 0:12 will kill your system, that panel will be extremely hot in shadow as it will act as resistor if bypass diode fails. I made my 16kwh Lifeo4 battery with 5kw hybrid with off grid back up ability myself only for $3500, it has been powering my house for last 2 years. I import zero from grid, do all cooking on this solar system. If you diy it is very cheap.
John’s system probably running micro inverters , that chimney only effecting the one panel it’s shading
And the really cool thing is that if it burns the house down, the insurer will build you a new house for free 😂
Please tell me how, im happy to do it but cant find supply and trades to attach in country WA….
It looks like Tiffany and yourself have a beautiful home. Congratulations! Thank you for the video J.C.
(Out of curiosity, have you looked into ceramic coating the panels? There by lessening the time in between cleanings, perhaps quarterly or yearly, of the dust, bird poo, etc, i realise it maybe not feasible due to the highwire act to access the panels. I wonder on the beneficial nature and possible ROI in efficiency)
Excellent information John, thanks.
Home Solar PV system made sense for me in WA after considering some of the basics. Will my realistic ROI period be under 5 years, yes. Will i be living in this house for much longer than 5 yrs, yes. Is the warranty substantial, yes. I haven't got a battery because ROI period is too long. With my 5kW inverter system, plus a little feed-in tariff, my system saves me close to 50% off my yearly power bill, around $1700 per yr. Happy with that.
How about talking about the new style solar panels . Dual side and with reflectors. Much more efficient.
John.....
I've looked into this many times and found:
1. I can only calculate the return on investment for a time period defined by the term of the warranty - ie 10 years typically because after that technically speaking the system or a major component may fail and you need a new one - so it needs to pay for itself within the warranty period;
2. You need to factor in the cost of paying someone to get up on the roof and cleaning the panels every 6 months (ie maintenance) due to dust very likely/potentially reducing performance by up tp 30%, so what's that 500 a year maybe for a double story house?;
3. In the event of a hail storm (one of those nasty ones) - its happened in the past that the panels smash and the house insurance wont cover that damage unless they are specified as a specific item on the roof at an extra cost of circa 100 to 150 bucks a year to cover storm damage to the panels.....; and
4. Don't forget, If you just went onto your internet banking and dumped 24 grand cash into Wesfarmers or Rio or BHP etc - you can expect an average return of circa 8%pa for doing nothing...... (8% is the ASX 200 average return since 1990 to present)
So to my mind....... Unless you're a tree hugging greeny or use A LOT of power - these days the numbers do not stack up.... and every year over the last 10 years I've looked at it and they never have stacked up to any real benefit.......... other than a 'conscience vote'
So there's that..... DUUUUUUDE
(Bow for applause.......... now)
2. It's called rain ..... Duuuuuuude
1. Most if not all reputable solar panels offer a 20+ year warranty with guarantees on panel performance at a given age, usually 20+ years.
2. Its not that hard to get on your roof and clean panels, for probably most people, not all of course.
3. calculated risk i'd say, but its hardly worth the added calculation.
4. 8% when i last checked, was less than 10%
I think the point of Johns video, and he's absolutely on the ball.
IF you want to do something positive, climate wise, forget the EV - Solar (and battery if you can) are a far better financial decision.
no bow required.
I use very little power, my power bills were only about $400 per quarter prior to installing solar.
It cost $8,500 after RECS 8 years ago for a 5kW system. Paid itself off in 5 years.
The Fronius inverter has a 15 year warranty and Trina panels, 20 years.
Panels are so cheap now the Recs essentially covers the entire cost of them and installation.
@b3nz0r12 you can offer a one hundred year warranty but it's not much good if the company is no longer around to honour it. This is one of the problems with cheap Chinese EVs.
Point 2. Buy a ladder for 100 bucks and climb on the roof with a hose and long handled brush. They can do it, so can you.
Point 3. Everyone needs house insurance, just bite the bullet. Its only 100-150 bucks
Point 4. 8% ffs. 1990 to present is effing irrelevant. You get the current going rate. Duh. 3%
So there's that DUUUUUUUUUUDE. 600kWh/month for a 3 bed with pool is pretty standard. The maths is fine. Your assumptions are bollox.
We hat about maintaining the system. Cleaning the panels. So far most suppliers disappear when a inverter goes west . Hope you don't have to get the roof fixed .most of the time the roof can be comprised by the solar installation .. they keep me in work
All reasons John started by saying his website only uses reputable installers - giving the cowboys the middle finger. Disappearing installers and shoddy workmanship are the hallmark of shoddy workmanship by cowboy outfits. The cheapest quote turns out to NOT be the cheapest in the long run.
yeah, you have to clean the inside of the solar wires every 6 months or so or else they will get clogged.
There is a simple device that efficiently uses both solar and wind power, a clothesline.
Canberra winter called. It wants to have a chat
How's the lights and cooking going on the clothsline.
@@richardkaz2336 It saves me money so I can afford food and to keep the lights on.
@@theairstig9164 Montreal winter replying. (hang them up indoors). BTW how was your ski season ?
I did everything myself , bought new equipment mostly from ebay and paid about 6,5k€ for 16,8kwp, 40 jinko 420w ntype all black pannels, solaredge se16k, SE net meter and 20 p850 optimizers. No battery but year based 1:1 net metering with 11,5kw permission to feed the network. Monthly bill dropped to 9€. System ROE is about 1,5 years. Same system would cost about 20k€+ if I had gone the regular path.
I like the idea of solar from a continuity point of view, a kind of backup for when supplies become unreliable. From a ROI perspective if the system only lasts 10 years it is zero, albeit a hedge against price rises, and if it lasts 20 years the ROI is half of your 10% to my simplistic mind. If a 20 year lifespan is likely then it is still a good investment.
Minor point: the EV scenario doesn't reduce emissions by 1/2. The increased electricity usage is significant and has significant emissions associated, especially if it's an SUV-weight EV going 15km/year. Add to that the manufacturing impact, which applies more than once per vehicle replaced given the much shorter life of an EV vs. a diesel vehicle, and you're very likely increasing net emissions.
Have you ever looked into the energy footprint of refining crude oil into petrol or diesel. It's astounding high and seldom talked about. Plugging an EV into a a "dirty" grid is in fact better for the environment than burning "refined" oil in the form of petrol or diesel
Garbage. The increased electricity usage for charging the EV has zero increased emissions associated with it, other than the additional panels and battery storage required. Who says its an SUV weight EV? Who said the previous ICE was ditched prematurely to obtain and EV? Who said EVs have shorter lives? Garbage in, garbage out. That's how your maths is going.
@@senselessza1 do you think that coal, oil and natural gas are magically teleported out of the ground and into the power stations?
@@csjrogerson2377 he wasn't talking about charging the EV on solar. He was talking about buying an EV instead of paying for solar power installation.
Also, his solar system used all available space, so no, there'd be no bonus panels.
Also also, he wasn't able to fully meet his electricity requirements with the solar system without charging an EV, and even if he could charge an EV off his solar system alone, that would be power that was now not going into the grid, power which the coal, gas and oil plants would have to generate in its absence. No matter how you charge your EV, that power could have gone into the grid and must then be generated elsewhere to offset the usage.
Also also also, in the hypothetical he's replacing 1 of 2 diesel SUVs with an EV. An EV simply is not capable of replacing a diesel SUV, but if one is being honest in the formulation of the hypothetical, one must get as close to functionally equivalent as possible, so it must be an equally big vehicle, with equally high cargo capacity. If one were replacing a Toyota Corolla, one would get a smaller, lighter EV, and one would still have an excessive environmental impact from manufactuting, still a much-shortened useful vehicle life, and still a higher gross avg CO2/km over the lifetime of the vehicle.
I just paid $20k cash ( literally) for 12kw of panels ( BYD ) Fronius Inverter and 19.3kw battery stack ( BYD ) up here in Darwin. My instruction to my contractor mate was simply “ large spec to future proof the house for any new buyer / good quality / no budget” I’m now making $70 a month. It was never the intention to make money - I just wanted a $0 invoice which I’ve achieved. Best money I’ve ever spent 🎉🎉
Only 12. You got stiffed then. Largest domestic systems are 14kw with 32 panels. Smart people use an ABN and claim working from home = 22kw commercial system with 54 panels, which is what I have on my house.
I’ve got 28 panels. Small roof. Don’t get stiffed. Don’t need an ABN . Don’t work from home. Not a grifter.
Think solar is great option especially if want to be off the grid with batteries. . But my electric cost in Florida is US 11.6 cents a kWh so it would take decades to get the money back if the parts last that long. . Plus installing thousands in equipment would increase the home value making my property tax bill go up. And it seems more and more insurance companies will not insure homes with solar or jack up the rates.
In Australia we are closer to .30 per kwh
I'm on variable rate Time of Use. Peak rate is 48c (31c USA??). Quickest payback was System 1 20 months; system 2 was 3.5 years; system 3 will be
@@prizecowproductions
make that closer to 40cents
The main reason I got solar was I have so little confidence on the reliability of our system going forward with renewables. The way we are going it's just going to get more and more unreliable and more expensive. Our household includes two elderly parents and others that spend a lot of time at home. It makes more sense for people that don't work away from home.
We just had a solar system installed earlier this yr - Enphase micro inverter IQ8 (25yr warranty), Sunpower panels (40 yr warranty). If we go the Enphase batteries (modular), 15 yr warranty. We are fuelling 100% of our EV with our rooftop solar. We’ve never charged at night off the grid or at a charging station and are nearly at 5000km now. Once we hit 50000km we’ve saved about $6500-7000……. The car is supercharging our return on investment on top of the power saved.
Battery just doesn’t stack up, multiple installers said the same. In saying that I paid extra to have the set up battery ready, just plug in when/if the time comes - Or if blackouts become a problem, Enphase IQ8’s turn your house into its own micro grid with batteries, meaning if the grid gets blown up, your house runs normal as if nothing happened, forever if needed, unlike 99% of other ‘grid tied’ systems…..once their battery is depleted you have a useless solar system unable to work until the grid is fixed. Worth looking into if paying the $.
some extra cooling for the roof due to those panels too.
awaiting the install of my system (thanks JC + Green), nominal 5kw + 13kwh battery. the panels will be covering nearly the entire section of my roof where it's being installed, and that roof is a cathedral ceiling type, so i'll also get an insulation bonus from them. also getting the Heat-pump and induction top done at the same time - the irony here is that the house , built in 1979, was originally all-electric, but the 80's was cheap for gas, now i'm going back.
If you own an EV, you're probably going to need to get a solar system + battery anyway.
*If* EV ownership takes off to the degree that the gumbiment wants, then the cost of any eelek-trickery supplied will increase as it mirrors demand.
It's us on fixed pensions, without the means to afford the solar/battery for the house will forever be shackled to the tender mercies of power companies and as Morrison called it... "good old can do capitalism"
Oh and congrats on attracting so many "booty bots" in the comments. As I type this there are more of them than genuine comments
Widespread EV addoption might be less of a problem than you think. The problem with electricity is usually for more peak power than total energy consumption. In a few years with better batteries EVs can actually make the grid easier to run by feeding power back at high demand times.
Love me a booty bot
Eelek-trickery. Catweazle?
Some power companies already offering free daytime charging for ev .
MORE THAN 1 WAY TO SKIN A CAT!
I am in WA and in our previous house I installed a 5kW Sunnyboy inverter and 6.2kW of panels... initially it was great 47 cents a kW feed in tariff sadly dropping to 7 cents after the 10 year anniversary. Our original system cost approx $30,000 and reduced by $10k through rebates.
In December last year we fitted a 10kW inverter to our new property with 30 X 440 watt panels giving us 13.2kW of panels. Total cost $7,700. Initially our consumption meter to restrict feed in to the grid wasn't fitted & our best generation day was 96kW... most of that going into the grid. In Western Australia there is no feed in tariffs for systems with an inverter above 5kW. Eventually our solar provider fitted the consumption meter which restricts out feed into the grid to 1500 watts max per hour. When purchasing the system we got quoted roughly $11k to fit a Telsa 2 13.5kW battery. Taking into account the cost of the battery & the benefit of doing so we decided not to proceed with a battery. Our 2 monthly power bills average $220 which include the service fee which is roughly $1 a day and also GST.
Looking at ways to reduce our out of pocket living expenses I looked at our water bills and was horrified at the cost to maintain our garden. Doing some research we decided to install a bore & after spending approx $10k to install a bore, bore pump and upgrade our retic and the benefits have been massive. This time last year our water usage was 1200 litres a day on average our comparable this year reduced our bill to $38 averaging 300 litres a day. Living in a region without limited days per week for watering we water 8 zones from our bore at 65 litres a minute for approx 3 hours a day every day of the week. The best benefit to our watering is by 6 30 am our solar system provides enough power to run the pump giving us free power and water. We are looking forward to our next water bill which will be a good indicator of how much saving we're getting from our bore; our total bill last January was for an average of 2,000 litres a day resulting in a bill of $500+ for a 2 month billing cycle, we expect a bill of roughly $40 or less.
There are more than one way to skin a cat! In time batteries or alternative storage systems will become more affordable until then I can't see any benefit of installing a battery especially if you're still connected to the grid paying a service fee & GST.
We had solar fitted 8 months ago and already seen a massive difference in bills (yes obviously we paid $10k for the solar plus had a $4k rebate thing), but it’s just nice to bung on aircon without worrying about the cost. Especially in Brisbane atm. Plus our house value has increased far more than the cost we paid.
We had a bit of a windfall so didn’t not ice the outlay tbh
Come December through March you'll notice enormous savings
Not only tax free savings but allow for inflation over the next 10 years as well.
show us the install plus also are you looking at other upgrades to the house to use more of that solar and battery system? e.g. induction cooking or heat pump water
Very informative.
This is the intelligent thinking that works world wide, unlike EVs that are useless in many places like the middle of the jungle anywhere!
The only place the solar is not helpful is apartment blocks, the people cannot all use the same roof.
Yes please, make a vid on battery system.
Could you include the reduced fire risk of LFP battery ?
Mrs is nervous about installing battery. I've got 8.3kwh system on the roof. NSW govn rebate this month has made the battery look attractive.
IF YOU PAYED 25 GRAND OFF YOUR HOUSE MORTGAGE YOU'LL SAVE HEAPS MORE
At least in America interest paid on a mortgage is tax deductible.
@@Noah_E Not much anymore. Better to pay off that principal ASAP.
Yes I meant to include that one as well but forgot - my mortgage is 6.15% - and if i put in 25 grand that's a great saving each month PLUS in the event of an emergency I can re-draw it whereas with panels I cant say - come and take 5 panels away I need a quick 10 grand for a new motor in the Commodore........
he’s running a solar business. suggestions to pay of the mortgage will not help that business.
@@diydrivenGA lol champ you keep saying the same thing on every comment . If you can redraw on your home then you simply do that to fix the commodore . Paying the mortgage and power bills every month would take a hit on your wages . Maybe can sell the commodore to pay the next power bill ?
I would love to see the breakdown of the battery upgrade please. Incidentally I always thumbs up a video I watch out of courtesy but this one I actually did like! On another note, a quantity surveyor recently pointed out to me the much overlooked advantage of solar and battery on your house. It increases the value greater than the cost of installation due to the sensible fact the purchasers look at it and realise you have already done the farnarkling for them and there is value to that.
there is not much difference with a solar system with or without a battery in terms of repayment. however investment with the battery is obviously bigger.
That's why I'm adding batteries to my place. I'll be selling in 2-3 years and live in an area that predominantly votes "green" and is full of "thinkers" rather than "doers". They are happy to pay a premium for somebody else to research, deal with sales people, negotiate & project manage almost anything. I'll be retiring the IGHW next year and installing a Heat Pump HW. Get the gas disconnected, put a 1000 litre water barrel in the back yard and sell the place as a "eco-home" in 2026.
Hmmm....how often do the batteries, panels and inverter need to be replaced?
Up here in Cana-duh it's not uncommon to have 100 days of no sun in winter.
Heat and sun exposure kills panels. In canada 25 years will see panels degrade in performance from 100% to 80% in 25 years … if the panels are reasonable quality.
If the sun is hot near the equator and the panels get a lot of salt spray it’s more like 12-16 years. My panels paid for themselves in 6 years. I wish it was double the size but I ran out of roof.
Seriously considering a new shed just for the panels because Australia electric bills suck 🫏🍆
@@theairstig9164 What about the batteries?
@theairstig9164 Stop calling them electric bills. They are electricity bills. Electric is a verb - that is to say it must impart movement. If your bill was electric it would actually shock you! Yeah, I know, queue the Benny Hill joke...It does bloody shock me!
Panels are probably 20-25 years. Inverter probably 10 years as long as it isn't installed in full sun (or 20-25 years for a micro inverter). Battery probably 10-15 years.
@@bubbleboy468
isn't "ELECTRIC" an adjective and not a verb?
Hello there. A nice take on the topic, I loved it. Solars combined with batteries is a great investment. You made one major mistake, though: you need to deduct depreciation from your return to arrive at the correct ROI. Assuming your installation will live for the next 28 years, its depreciation will almost halve the ROI indicator.
I can't remember but his ROI calc also doesn't include the increasing cost of electricity or being in a VPP and selling back to the grid at realistic prices.
Can't remember the specs but I do know the dollar values. I spent $7,500 for pannels and inverter. No battery. Haven't had an electric bill for over two years and the excess they pay me (feed-in tariff) I think it's called, pays for my natural gas usage and the connection fee of $85. per quarter. My account credit continues to grow. In a few months it will have paid for itself. Most sensible money I've ever spent. And I'm in the A.C.T. Very hot and very cold and few mild days.
As noted elsewhere the 'after' power bill John showed had no export shown whatsoever so not feed in tariff. From that I can only assume John is somehow managing to attain the optimum solar owner's aspiration of total self consumption, which is the maximum return one can gain as the value of their generation then is essentially the value of whatever otherwise purchased electricity is offset by that self consumption. And similarly to John's glee in seeing retail electricity prices rise due to the improved ROI gained as a result so too does the gain from such offsetting improve.
One other factor that wasn't mentioned is the upcoming arrival of V2G in Australia due to the changes to standard AS/NZS 4777.2. This will not only change the comparative advantages of EVs vs home batteries but will also further improve the significant synergistic effects of combining EVs & PVs. The future cometh, ready or not.
if you want to look at each power generating sector for both cost and emission plus how much they charge per Mwh then have a look at opennem and it has many years worth of data
Hi John, My understanding is that the company you recommend for supply and Install actually receives your bill from AGL after install and you pay zero for an agreed period (2?, 5yrs?) i.e. customer never sees a bill. Does that still happen? I got a quote from them about 8 mths ago and this is what I was told.
I already had a 6kW solar system and had a 13.3kW battery installed through JC’s solar friends. It cost me $10,640 back in July. My last two bills have been $0 (and I’m presently in credit by about $56). Our ducted aircon chews the power. (Our solar was installed in 2010 when we were being paid a feed-in tariff of 68c/kWh.)
If you have a 6kW solar system on 68c/kWh why would you install a battery? Dosen't make sense you have better that net metering.
You make too much sense AND you're a good writer.
10 years ago after retiring we bought a rural house that had an off grid solar system installed . We never have to worry about blackouts or power bills . The little use our car gets driving to town once every 4 to 6 weeks for supplies make buying an expensive EV unpractical for us.
well, even a new ICE car would not make sense for you.
IF you must get an EV - solar (+/- battery) first, means less filthy coal in the electron mix - post manufacture of the Chinese export quality Solar and LiFe cells. (ROI - beats money in the bank.)
Solar alone makes daytime AC, bill neutral all summer long (that cool feeling)..
Hip Roofs are the bane of solar utilisation - designers get back to gables and skillions - pointing in solar relevant directions - also makes for functional eaves - shade walls in summer, expose them in winter - protect southern walls from weather ingress - functional overhangs and window awnings).
My Solar involved solar 60m from the house - we ran 16,,2 4C+E 60m and AC coupled the solar string inverter to the main board ( a 70m cat 6 data cable (2x one for solar monitoring, the other for the shed internet (inverter online connection).) completed the installation ..
Solar FIT are to the depths of hell recently - daily grid access charges are to the moon - fortunately my original install (6kW + 30% panel) was under $13k AUD, and my little shed battery - aftermarket - offgrid, another ~$4k AUD (10-kWh + 3kW inverter for vital necessities - in the extremis) - not so much $$$ into it... (energy sufficiency is a great game, especially if it results in safe ROI of over 10%) better than insider trading most days
..
Anecdote:
feed in tariff is trending to "net zero" - basically being limited to under $2 per day for the median sized - or retailer preference of "5kw export limitation"' on compliant systems.. (I think I am now getting 10c/kWh for 1-10 kWh/day - then it drops to ~5c/kWh. If I export 20kWh, that gives $1.75 / day. If I offset 20kWh of consumption at ~35c/kWh I save $7 / day..
Saving on consumption, while ever there is any net import is the cheaper investment -- on greater than a 3x better ROI.
($2.55k/Ann or ROI of ~25.5% on a $10k install - we got tilts and LG panels with SolarEdge optimisers, a "gold plated system" - add in another $200 in FiT and that is 27% RoI on $10k "invested" )
Summer generation is over 40kWh, winter is under 15kWh - siting and aspect varies results greatly - we get to see "full sun" sun from 9am through to 5pm (>2kW power ) in summer, though the winter "time in the sun" 2kW timing is from 10.30am to !2.15pm.
- daily access to the grid costs ~$1.05 here so offsetting this to zero is nice, banking the summer tariff to make up for a few kWh imported in winter is also nice (summertime AC without bill shock is great. Our mean solar production during the year is 750kWh/month - total consumption is 265mWh/month (imports only 97kWh - solar hot water is getting old at 20+ years on the roof and reduces even offpeak heating to near zero on a / month average - NB, it has been damaged by hail ever - (my parents solar hot water system was partially smashed by hail last year - interestingly it wasn't noticed to be not working - it had been there nearly 40 years, now economical/ more fungible, to replace with additional solar PV than thermal solar - that was not the case in the 80_s.)
Purely anectotal.
The difference between Sydney and Broken Hill is that 20,000 are less important and fill fewer state seats in Parliament than the 5 million in Sydney and 1200 km. Must be a market for solar and batteries out given their recent days without power they just experienced even with their giant solar farm and wind power farm inverted to the state grid in preference to the good citizens of the Silver City. Have been hearing all their woes from family members.
You need to compare using Salary sacrifice where EV is 100% FBT free especially if you are on the top rate of tax (Thanks Albo and stage 3 tax cuts). It makes a huge difference compared to an ICE car where it usually about 40% pretax vs 100% for the EV.
Also Bowen has just announced V2G has been approved for Australia. I currently don't have a house battery and divert all excess solar into the car. I will now be able to use the car (hopefully a minor part change or future EV) to cover our peak usage and would consider going over to Amber to play the wholesale electricity game.
You should consider Amber electric, which has wholesale plans, and you can sell your battery power back at peak times to maximize your ROI.
They control the battery and dump it when you can get 60c to export it... Or even more.
NZ power price comparison. I pay 0.23 per kw, I’m what’s considered a lay user at approx $100 a month in power, the rest of my $400 bill is supply charge. I live 4.6km from the edge of town but having a power line costs me 3 times more than the power I use
Last month I had15 panels and an inverter fitted for $3800 in Perth WA
I installed 17kw of panels in August 2021. I've saved $9,200 so far, and the entire system cost me about 11k. This time next year I'll be in profit, for the next 15 years.
The panels have a 25 year warranty, and i haven't washed them yet because they're on the second storey roof
The warranty is only useful if the company that manufactured them is still around in 25 years. And like most warranties, if it fails on year 24, it's not a 100% replacement. They all have the same limitations on the warranty where you get far less than you think
@gregb1599 yep, actually if they fail after 2 years, let alone 24, same applies. The warranty text explicitly states that they'll pay for a replacement or cash value, won't cover installation. I have sunpower panels, so hoping they'll last
battery life is how long before you need to replace them?
An episode of two halves. First an ROI analysis that suggests a 10 % per year is ok. That is it will take approximately 10 years before you payback and save money. No information on government subsides- tax payer money in helping purchase. No cradle-to-grave analysis. And why we all should feel compelled to purchase and maintain significant power generation equipment on our properties, that once was the responsibility of the government. Your most important half was the desire to do the right thing!if we can afford it. I am not impressed with people who solely bang on how much money it will save you. I’m in my late seventies and will never, realistically, see a complete return and cost saving.
Well thought out, all things considered.
That's a good bill reduction.
Our average bill is about $200/ month with 6 kW PV & no battery & an EV.
The car, doing about 1300ks/month uses about half the energy, though only costs about $20 for each month. (Due to ultra cheap daytime tariffs)
Hoping to get a battery for Xmas.
The daytime grid is only about 30% fossil, due to the grid being flooded with cheap solar.
Only 1300km a month. Gees. I run nearly 2000km every 2/3 weeks
Hi John, Love your channel. I understand your financial argument. Just curious, for EV's you calculate how long it takes to become carbon neutral. How long will it take for your solar to become carbon neutral? Making solar cells and batteries require energy input after all. I haven't seen this explained properly. Just quercous. Cheers
Can’t get solar, I live in an apartment block like millions of Australians
Probably also won't be able to charge your milkfloat either I suppose.
Then John's reasoning, calculations and solution don't apply to you. However, there are more of us living in stand alone dwellings who this video does fit.
Sounds like a you problem. Who in their right mind buys a vertical shoebox?
You could get the Strata to fit a solar PV system to the common property roof area and then use a distributed system to distribute it to the residents.
Allume Energy has a system for this and it works out cheaper than buying individually.
I'm in a strata townhouse complex and was able to get strata permission to cover my roof area in panels.
@ just need the strata to agree, I won’t hold my breath. The Gov needs to mandate efficacy and energy standards for established buildings.
Do both...then it all makes sense. Haven't had a bill (been in credit) for 2 years with a 7.6kw system and 10.2kw battery. Have had a Model 3 in the household for 6 mths....got a $24 bill over winter quarter....next quarter up to November - $98.00 in credit on following bill---Saving $2500 - $3000 per year plus fuel savings. on a $16k investment
There is a problem with storage batteries if you have a weatherboard house. You need to add an extra $6-8k for a free standing stainless steel enclosure and depending on the size of the battery packs it may be up to $10 extra including associated cabling etc or even a Besser block out house incase the batteries shit themselves.
Yes you can install a powder coated steel Rittal enclosure but they tend to rust out in 5-8 years or you could bolt sheets of 25mm cement panels on the walls but you're still at risk of the fire spreading.
yes, better don't bother
We get charged just over $60 for our supply charge in WA on the SW Grid
All things being equal, rooftop solar looks like a pretty good investment, at first glance. It looks like the system you have could pay for itself, through subsequent savings, in approximately 10 years. But in 10 years' time, it would be interesting to consider how much of your system's efficiency is lost through actual solar panel and battery depreciation? And let's not forget that we're yet to see Li-Ion batteries last more than 10 years, let alone retain at least 80 percent of their original efficiency. What about the panels? Any damage to them, from things like hail or other heavy wind-swept debris, like tree branches broken off during a vicious storm, also adds to the original cost through subsequent replacements. Do those solar panels need regular cleaning? I wouldn't be surprised if the system costs end up increasing by at least 10-20 percent in that decade, which would then mean that it would take a longer time to pay itself off. Also, let's not forget that Li-Ion batteries suffer from over-heating, so sufficient cooling is needed. What if passive cooling is not enough and it actually needs power-consuming active cooling? With the increased risk of spontaneous combustion due to insufficient cooling, how much does that add to the risk of a house fire that fire-fighters know better than to try to put it out through the normal extinguishing equipment they now have at their disposal? Will the house insurance premiums go up if your insurer gets wind of that consideration? How would that then compare to the normally grid-supplied rate increases in that decade? Granted, it's hard to ignore the mad rush everyone's in to jump on the 'solar energy uptake' bandwagon, but given how inefficient today's PV and electricity storage technology is, I'm still not convinced that this rush isn't largely misguided. Yes, the autonomy from the vagaries of grid-supplied volts is tempting, but at what cost? And that's only the issues we know now, but what about technological progress that would see a whole new standard relegate today's investments obsolete and/or downright costly? Lithium and other rare-earth metals are finite, as in non-renewable, resources that are already in short supply, so that's an added reason to not rush into this just for the sake of lowering one's CO2 emissions. What about disposal costs, both in environmental terms as well as financial ones? I'm not yet convinced that all the things I've mentioned here have been given sufficient significance or consideration.
Paragraphs might make your post worth reading...
Analysis paralysis right there
I installed a 3kw system in 2012. That system still produces the same kwh as when first turned on. 22kwh on a sunny December day and 7kwh on a sunny June day. Has done so for 12 years without a single issue. It's on a garage roof facing North (located in SA on the Yorke Peninsula). I have never cleaned the panels - the rain does that.
I installed a second system (5kw with 6.66kw panels) on my house roof in a east/west orientation in 2017. That system too functions perfectly after 7 years without manual cleaning.
Your concerns are a non issue.
too long
Smashed it
What is your view of John Robson and Climate Discussion Nexus? He seems reasonable. I live in the Chicago Illinois area. We have 176 cloudy days and 105 party cloudy days a year. I'm not sure solar here would have the same return on investment. Roughly $0.16/KWh.
What is an indicative lifetime for an inverter/charger and a battery pack?
you get what you pay for.
i have an australian made inverter and it is going for 22 year so far.
@@ursodermatt8809 what brand is that and are they still made?
@@gerrycooper56
no, they are not made anymore.
SEA. it was really expensive compared to nowadays. about 6500$ for 2,2kw. so that would be about 10 000$ in todays $.
selectronic is also australian made. and very reliable.
Mr Cadogan, good day. I wanted to know, what are the panel like on the dust front? How often to they need cleaning?
they don't need cleaning. cleaning them does not make that much difference.
dust though like after a dust storm is a different matter. but then you have clean everything else as well.
3 houses, 3 systems. They all get cleaned by rain.
Thanks for sharing
Is solar considered a bonus or installed equipment wrt rentals?
Rentals you need to maintain and repair/replace equipment if it starts to not perform correctly. E.g. dishwasher, air conditioner. What about solar batteries?
You a landlord? Install solar for your tenants. Forget the battery. You are obligated to maintain the system along with everything else bolted to the house. Solar from a reputable installer will outlast all the warranties.
@@lunsmann Getting solar installed during a build can save thousands.
I installed solar in 2010 for $3,000 after a $8,000 rebate from Abbott or Gillard or Rudd (I forget) and I haven’t had a bill since. 50c / kWH feed in rate. The ROI is about 30% pa 🤷♂️
Well John - you cant say I don't try my very best to generate lots of comments for the channel........ please remember that for the next Bluetti giveaway......!
I have solar, small 3 bedroom house, 2 teenagers, solar hot water, my power bill 2 months ago was $5.01 for the month. It’s not always that low, but hey …
John, in between shaving that rude head of yours, you must do a story on the ludicrous home-to-street EV charging set-ups. I have seen pics of cables running from houses and onto trees then down to cars. crazy stuff.