Buying Home Batteries In Australia In 2024: What You Need To Know
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- Discover the most important considerations when buying home batteries in Australia in 2024. Learn how to buy a solar battery confidently and at the right price.
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
00:39 - How much do batteries cost?
02:03 - Battery savings and payback
04:48 - Are batteries worth it?
06:04 - Battery rebates
07:22 - Batteries and backup
09:06 - Lithium-ion
10:17 - What will batteries look like on your house?
11:54 - Australia's strict battery standards
14:00 - Dodgy salespeople
14:57 - Battery warranties
15:33 - Conclusion
You can read the article version of this guide here:
www.solarquotes.com.au/101-gu...
For the home battery comparison table I mention:
www.solarquotes.com.au/batter...
For the VPP comparison table I mention:
www.solarquotes.com.au/batter...
Watch my Sungrow battery install:
• Are Budget Home Batter...
You can read all my solar and battery 101 guides here:
www.solarquotes.com.au/101-gu...
And to receive quotes from solar and/or battery installers I have personally pre-vetted and trust: www.solarquotes.com.au/quote/
If you have questions after watching the video, feel free to ask in the comments section below - and don't forget to subscribe to this channel :) - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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One of the best informative videos I have seen. Thank you from New Zealand.
thank you, from across the ditch!
Excellent video. Who wouldn't go to this guy to install a battery, when he gives you so much upfront honesty and facts about batteries.
Lots of really useful info in here. Thanks 🙏
Given that the price of EV batteries are now around AUD250 per Kwh , why is it that the same batteries used in home batteries are so ridiculously more expensive. I understand the need for a battery management system but they can't be more complicated than in an EV?
Because people will pay it. Suppliers will milk it for as long as they can.
I agree 100% with Trevor 15+ kWh 48v CE approved batteries for around 4K are available and are compatible with good quality hybrid inverters such as Goodwe/Deye that cost no more than 2k for a 6kw throughput which would easily power a standard home. the Bs with battery approvals is just a money grab! and no extra cost gateway Bs is needed as the inverters have inbuilt backup. I say it’s nearly come time to disconnect from the grid!!
Rest
Different applications, different construction, possibly different Gov subsidies, but most importantly supply and demand.
Perhaps you are talking about the battery pack because CATL LFP batteries are a lot cheaper than $250 per kw. For the individual batteries that go in to a power wall I am pretty sure it's well below $100 AUD now, plus sodium is being scaled up at 30% less than LFP. Everyone talks about the price of EVs coming down to be on parity with ICE but simple storage battery prices could easily come down 50%. When supply exceeds demand and new competition comes in this will happen and when it does the grid operators better watch out. The amount of people going off grid would become out of control. Even with todays prices the need to run expensive poles and wires to rural properties has become completely unnecessary .
And my LG is turned off again for another widespread factory recall due to house fires. Definitely do your market research before choosing a unit.
You're right, I did my research and got BYD, ya should have got a BYD.
@@Ineluki_Myonrashi If I were in the market now I would probably have gone for a BYD. They seem to have a good value for money, which is my language. Unfortunately I bought years ago and realistically the only choices I had were the 6 or 10 LG or the Tesla which was very expensive and on back order for six months.
excellent information ... thank you.
Seriously awesome video. Thanks. 🙏.
This was great, thank you.
Queensland currently has a rebate of $3,000 to $4,000 depending on income (this will not last long). I just installed a battery because of it, which cost $10,000 before the rebate (I'm told prices have gone up). I have an EV plan, which gives free power from 11am to 2pm, so I get to charge the EV, the battery, heat up the hot water, run the dishwasher, etc... at this time. Power between 4:00pm and 9:00pm (time of use) is very expensive, but I have a battery! Combine this with solar power on the roof (13.2kw) purchased a few years ago. My power bill is finally $0. We have gone from about $1,500 average a quarter to $0. All up it has cost about $16,500 (after all rebates). Worth it? for us, absolutely. If i didn't have an EV, payback may have taken much longer. Of note the battery was expensive, and this component only saves us about $4 to $5 a day on average - or about $1,460 to $1,825 a year (which is a pay off time of 3.8 to 4.7 years). We deplete our 13.6kw batter each night, but we use a lot of electricity. if you do not use a lot of electricity, it will take much longer for it to pay it way. We now even seem to be getting a return on our feed in tariff again - Which I have not added to the payback time, but is about $1 a day despite the poor weather we have been having since the install 2 weeks ago.
Prior to the rebate, much higher feed in tariffs, and the lack of battery competition, it was not worth it. The math did not add up. Now, because of the increase in power costs, huge decrease in feed in tariffs, the rebate, and better deals to be had with batteries, Things have changed. For us, it was finally time to make the purchase.
Ends on the 8 May 24 unfortunately
@@PyjamasBeforeChristhopefully they will run it again. We got our battery the last time they had a program. Subsidy plus interest free loan on the balance.
Our home solar produces an average of 30Kwh per day over a year. Of that, 5Kwh is used in the house during daylight and 5Kwh goes into our solar battery. That leaves 20Kwh to sell. Instead of selling it, it is implied that we could charge an EV. We could if it sits at home all day. That 20Kwh takes 12 hours to produce. And a Hyundai Kona could drive 109 k! No, so you cannot charge a car from solar. An EV has to be charged overnight - from the mains.
You know most people don’t use the full charge of their ev, so most days you are just topping it up. It’s going to be up and down and vary based on how much you drive.
For example a mate of mine is a stay at home software engineer who drives his car locally on the weekends. He absolutely does maintain his vehicle from solar. On the other hand if you commute your vehicle daily then you are going to be hitting the mains.
@@Alan.livingston Yes this is true, just as petrol cars do not need a full tank to drive. In my view an EV should always remain within range of home as that is the only place to charge. A weekend trip from Sydney to Canberra is risky as charging would be an issue.
Excellent explanation.
Glad it was helpful!
Thoughts on the new Anker Solix X1 batteries?
Are they available in Australia yet?
Trying to find pricing on them is like trying to find a needle in a haystack
In America, Insurance is much more expensive annually for homes with solar on the roof, because they have now included the cost of replacement. Another offset that will need to be estimated.
Great and very detailed video. Thank you. I like that you mention the use of a bollard in the garage - something that meant a battery wouldn't fit in mine. The problem with using the integrated solar battery for power when the mains is unavailable is that the battery may have already dishcarged from daily use. I was quoted with having the battery provide power to one circuit only for critical devices such as my fridge and freezer. I was also told that once the battery was discharged fully, it wouldn't recharge from the solar until mains power resumed, which meant best case, it would only provide backup power for half a day.
I ended up buying a camping battery for $2k which means I always have a 2kw battery on standby that can power my fridges for 12 hours. I bought some portable solar panels and can charge up the battery during the day in case of a prolonged outage. This means all my rooftop solar goes to covering my normal daily usage - and charging my backup battery. So far I've used the battery twice during blackouts and it enabled me to not only keep the fridges going, but using a powerboard I was able to watch dvds on my tv (no internet during power blackouts) and cook my dinner. If I wish I can also use the battery during high power cost periods to reduce my bill (although I would have to do this daily, and would risk not having backup power if I did this).
I am on a time usage power plan, and until battery prices are halved and aren't a fire risk, I cannot see any advantage in buying one.
Question please. Does you 5+ payback period with split tarrifs assume Solar PV ir not ?
I built and installed my own 2kw solar/9kw lfp system for 7 grand 4 years ago with zero previous experience, I'd highly recommend it to anyone who can't justify the expense and payback time of bought systems because with sensible use under the right circumstances you could eliminate your power bill entirely creating a realistic payback time. If your fairly handy and motivated and not afraid of side stepping some regulation most people can do it with all the information online and the videos people make explaining everything so well. It is a no brainer when the alternative is getting bent over by our corporate overlords for the rest of your life.
i have a 5.5kw north facing solar system and 10kwh battery in south australia (lots of sun). my bill is no where near eliminated, but it is reduced a great amount. in summer months i only pay the supply charge (sometimes less than that), and in winter i save about 20% via solar, and another 20% thanks to selective grid charging of my batteries - for peak hours usage.
@@simonr23 Obviously how efficient your house is, is a big factor and how many people live there and how motivated they are to use power efficiently.
@@jedics1 6 star house and modern, efficient electronics throughout. Intelligent power use to work within the constraints of variable tariff pricing each day. A lot of automation.
@@simonr23 Something is using a lot of power or a little power all the time for our experiences to be so different. My whole place is 2.5 by 7 meters though, which is probably less than 1/4 your whole house.
Hi Finn, I have a 6.65kw solar system inc.14 panels on the roof, with a Goodwe inverter. I have been told about fitting a 7.68kw Jinko battery to our system, as we have Jinko panels on the roof. Do you have any thoughts on this battery and fitment please?
A good video, however most of it was only applicable to single phase installations. If you have 3-phase power *and* the circuits in your house are split across all phases you can basically forget time of use tariffs because to take advantage of them as you describe you need an AC coupled battery and there are no integrated (like the Powerwall) AC coupled 3-phase batteries in Australia at present. In fact right now there are only two hybrid 3-phase inverters available in Australia. If you want to do a commercial scale system you can use multiple inverters tied together to make a 3-phase AC coupled system (SMA, Victron Energy for example) but for an SME or residential installation that’s not going to fly. I’d be very interested in seeing a video specifically on 3-phase systems in Australia. I think we will see more of them as EVs become more common and as more SMEs with 3-phase start thinking of EVs and battery installs.
If you have three-phase, consider DC coupled systems.
@@nepeansolarsolutions I have a DC coupled system. Thing is neither of the hybrid inverters available here support charging the battery from the grid, only the PV input. You can use a DC coupled system to avoid high grid rates, but you can’t charge from the grid as per the video so if you have 3-phase and no/limited PV time of use rates are of no value. The thing to look for is low daily supply charges so your excess solar has the best chance of negating them.
@@GraemeLeRoux Are you sure about that?
Looking at the Sungrow Hybrid 3-Phase inverter manual e.g. "8.10.9 BatteryForcedChargeTime ... The inverter will take charging power from the grid in the case of PV energy shortage."
Incorrect. I have had a single phase battery on my three phase house for 6 years.
The 3 phase meter nets out the dollars across all the phases: support.solarquotes.com.au/hc/en-us/articles/115001596554-How-does-a-single-phase-inverter-on-a-3-phase-supply-affect-my-self-consumption
We put 6.6kW of panels on the roof in early 2020 and although we now generate 56% of our electric usage (averaged over a 12 month period) our electric bills have actually increases by about 3%. Put a battery in mid 2021. I first started using fluro bulbs in 1992 and have been fairly energy conscious ever since and have had LED bulbs in the house and garage for the last 7 years. What we are really missing is an extra 13.3kWh of roof panels and an additional 20kWh of battery storage.
During summer there are several days where we would be totally self sufficient if we weren't force fed 7% grid power even when there is full solar available and / or electrickery still available for use in the battery. Bloody annoying that.
I love my Tesla Powerwall. One thing you don't seem to mention is software/app support for your system. The Tesla app for the Powerwall is fantastic and integrates with any Tesla cars you have. It will even direct any excess solar to your car. I've seen other brand solar apps and they're nowhere near as good.
Agreed. It’s a big reason it wins best battery when we survey our 500 installers every year.
I used solar quotes. Great system. My battery will payback in less than 3 years for a big house in Sydney. Tesla app is really good.
Why no mention of Zinc Bromide chemistry batteries? The Australian company Redflow sells these for residential homes. They are expensive but don't have any fire risk and do not degrade over time like lithium. In the long run these might work out cheaper? Can you please do more analysis of these batteries and how they compare to lithium?
We know Redflow well. They stopped supplying grid-connect residential many years ago.
@@SolarQuotes Are you sure? I got a quote for a residential redflow battery recently (Perth). Redflow have a battery that is specifically designed for residential installation.
Can you tell me if I buy another house with solar and no battery, If I add a battery to that will I have to join the flexible exports plan and when I changeover his ownership to me will I have to have the flexible exports plan as well thank you in advance
The Braveheart VPP analogy was great 😂
Thanks, Ryan. Love your work!
@@SolarQuotes likewise ! 🥰
What about flow batteries in comparison?
Thank you.
can a battery (and possibly also the inverter as well) be installed in the roof space / attic? (steel frame roof vs timber roof)
No Idea, but I doubt it.
You want to keep the battery as cool as possible.
The grid fails at least 5 times a year for us. It's getting worse each year. Sitting angry in the dark makes batteries look cheap.
There are other backup forms of power that cost a lot less.
Get a standby rechargeable torch.
As more people purchase EVs, we have 40-80KW batteries on wheels. Use it to power your home when you’re not driving and the sun is down. Charge it via solar when you can.
That would be perfect. If only the electricity suppliers would allow it. It seems there is only one vineyard in SA. which has faught to do this. Everyone should get together and fight for the right to use or ev's for this
I am in NZ and have free power from 9 till 12 have no solar would a battery be a good idea?
Hi Finn, thank you for your great video's my question is, over the last 6 month my solar export 6187kwh getting $0.06 NSW for it and my usage was 4286kwh for the 6 months, Im paying $0.34 for anytime usage price. Correct me if I'm wrong, i will be better of with 16kw battery.? Thank you for your time and help.
You’ll save 28c (34-6) per kWh of solar used from your battery. That’s about $1600 per year. That assumes you charge and drain the entire battery every night and it does not degrade over time. So you’ll likely save closer to $1200 per year in reality.
@@SolarQuotes Thank you for replaying, do you think i should get Sungrow 10kW 3P Hybrid Inverter, with Sungrow 16kWh Battery, or Fronius SYMO GEN24 plus 10kw Hybrid inverter with BYD Battery Premium HVM 16.6 kwh. I'm very curious about your opinion. Thank you in Advance
Brilliant
How do you think things like the HOEM device to run selected home circuits from your EV V2L or V2G (when it lands) will affect the viability of home batteries? Granted, the EV must be at home for this to work. Where considerable capital is spent on a large battery on wheels it seems like home owners will want to make the most of that investment.
Hoem is very limited. When cheap V2G inverters appear this will take off.
In Melbourne over the months from April to September my 9.4 kWh system generates less than 13 kWh of power leaving less than 6kWh over my daytime consumption. I would never charge the battery fully over 6 month period.
So to top up would need to come from grid. And the Victorian time of use rates are still way too high. And there is still the retailers supply fee of $1.08 per day so you will always have a bill of some kind and in Victoria the feed in tariff is $0.054c per kWh. So you need to generate anout 60 megawatt hours just to cover that supply bill.
Battery payback longer than 10 years based of my generation profile from 12 months of 2023. I dont have the roof space to add more than say 3 kWh of added pannels and then the ugly appearance affecting the street view of my home.
Fin's fact sheet is realy helpful but you need all the data to assess. That ssems the only weakness in the decision making process.
How hardened are these products what grade of emp can they handle
And what safety features are there for fires and over heating from radiation?
I can only speak for my battery, it's an Alpha ESS 5Kw and I asked the EMP question to the installer who didn't know. Upon completion, whilst charging and discharging there is zero radiation from the battery. Infact, there are more microtesla's coming out of my phone charging cable than the battery. I can't vouch for any other battery than my own. Hope this helps.
Watch out for rebate offers. I bought my Telsla 2 Powerwall as soon as the $750 rebate was offered. 7 months later and no sign of any rebate. Queries go to their Las Vegas offices, where they lament the immense lack of staff assigned to process rebates.
you bought in Australia and they send you to their Vegas office?
@@SolarQuotesIndirectly, yes. All rebate queries are directed to only email contact with PowerwallNA at tesla.
Sorry to hear that. Is your installer involved? Ours agreed to pay the rebate themselves if there was a problem with Tesla. Which there was not, rebate in the bank in 3 weeks.
@SolarQuotes My apologies if I am repeating myself - my earlier replies haven’t appeared. The Australian Tesla support phone staff direct all rebate queries to e-mail PowerwallSupportNA at Tesla.
This is where everything gets lost.
@Waiting-4-Godot While the installer has been supportive and also contacted various Tesla account and management staff, they have not offered to make this payment - nor would I expect them to at this stage. I am certainly never buying any other Tesla product in future.
[edit: correction to Tesla e-mail address above: PowerwallSupportNA]
I got my rebate within a week or so
I personally don’t believe batteries are worth the initial cost and accrued interest on the investment, two years ago I installed a 10.5kw solar system no battery Gosford area, previously $150-200/ month on TOU and since installing solar and having the hot water changed to heat during the solar peak we average $50 a month rebate. I do have to keep an eye on the power companies as they are always fiddling with the rates. For me batteries are a waste of time and money, the concern of having my house burnt to the ground is also a big factor. PS I can’t see a small built in fire extinguisher putting out a 10kw battery fire, the problem is the battery chemistry makes its own fuel and oxygen.
Well said. Amazing how these climate change zealots are prepared to spend big and be out of pocket forever, whilst believing they are helping the planet.
Fire brigade standard practice is move away smoother it in a fire blanket to stop it spreading and let it burn out because you can’t stop oxygen getting to batteries once they are on fire. Pretty risky if your no. 1 asset is involved and you’re retired with limited income to replace it. Insurance companies don’t cover much…❤
Hey, why dont you include Huawei batteries in your comparison charts? Did i make a mistake purchasing them?
Huawei are good batteries, in Australia they are now branded as 'iStore', and supported by SolarGain - who will look after your Huawei batteries too.
I do think it’s worth clarifying that with a time of use plan, it still doesn’t always come out beneficial for a battery.
I’m in the ACT and the price of peak times is still relatively low at 33c kWh, compared to a 10c export tariff. With my current 8kw panels, for much of the year I’m only drawing 3-5 kwhs from the grid per day. The battery savings from that just don’t exist…yet.
Should the peak prices hit 50c or so per kWh, like they have in various other states, then the value proposition dramatically improves.
My annual electricity bill is around $400 per year currently, and I’ve modelled a battery (of various sizes) with my usage data over the last few years. The best a battery can do is save about $200-$300 per year. Therefore never paying itself off (at least with the current prices).
I haven’t looked at modelling some of those alternative plans you mentioned, so maybe it could be worth it there.
Good point. ACT has phenomenally good grid tariffs compared to the rest of Australia.
how is this different if you decide to go off grid in the CBD for example, I use about 5kw a day approx, and have a small 2.3kw solar system getting the premium feed in tariff which will run out this year. So why not get a battery and upgrade the solar and go off grid?
With such small usage that is possible. But bear in mind that - without the grid reliability is everything and you need a backup. This starts to get expensive compared to a grid connect system.
The installation standard makes it look more like it’s designed to prevent households having batteries. Going by the standard, there is literal nowhere I can legally install one. I imagine it’s the case for many others. Was the standard drafted by the power industry by chance.
Do you live in a greenhouse or similar glass box?
It is rare that we cannot find a suitable location for a battery system to be installed, but also remember that they should never be installed in the direct sun due to the potential overheating.
@@anaestheticsI’m in a 3 bedroom unit. One full side is the adjoining property. Every other side hasn’t got an area large enough to meet the distance from a window requirement. The ridiculous bollard requirement rules out the garage as it would make the garage unusable, it’s not big to start with.
Safety standards exist for a reason - usually because someone died. My house has plenty of suitable locations. I will place my battery (when I eventually get one) in the same garage that my inverters are placed. Bollards won't be an issue because it's a double garage that is not used to house my car. Your specific situation is not indicative of the rest of ours.
I have this concept for my home solar + battery system, that, combined with an all electric car I could save on "fuel" as well - is that the case? Is this commonly done? Does it work or is there some "gotcha" that means you can't charge an electric car from your solar/battery system? Keen to know as I'm sure it's one of those things I'd be promised, but will evaporate when an electrician comes along and says "nope, that won't work because of X...."
You can charge your car from a home battery - no problem - but most people charge their cars either direct from solar, where possible or overnight on a cheap grid tariff. The problem is the car battery is typically 60-70 kWh and one home battery is 10-13kWh, so easy to drain your home battery leaving it empty for the evening peak.
Sodium ion batteries come close. Not quite as energy dense. However they are cheaper to make and a larger capacity battery can be had for a similar cost.
Can you point us to any commercially available and approved for grid-connection in Australia?
A family member recently installed a Tesla battery to an existing pv solar panel system. The cost was $16,000.
If there wasn't any extra work involved in the installation (eg major switchboard modifications) then it sounds like the installer ripped them off.
$15000 for a 10kw battery installed, no thanks.
I remember being told by SolarEdge that their battery doesn't have a built-in fire-extinguisher anymore.
The iStore Battery does though.
Interesting - just checked the SE battery's latest data sheet and it lists the fire extinguisher as 'optional'.
Battery prices are still going down right?
Yes. Battery cell prices are, but takes some time for this to flow through to the packaged home batteries.
Ok so Telsa Battery supply and instal (your number = $15K. Maximum deployable power = 10kW/day. @$0.42/kW that is (at best $4.20 per day.) less the $0.05 that you would have got from a feed in tarrif that makes it 10 x (0.42-0.06) = $3.60 per day. $15000/3.6= 4166 days or 11.41 years. So in just under 12 years you can get your $15K back, no profit, no savings and the battery is out of warranty. However............if you had invested the $15K in a term deposit @ 4%p.a. compounded, for that 12 years, you would have $24K. He just made over $9K from you.
I live in the NSW southern tablelands and after doing an extremely detailed modelling of my own proposed solar plus battery system (much more detailed than the SolarQuotes calculator and using actual hour by hour usage data over a full year), the best average annual return I could get was about 6% after twenty years and all of that came well towards the end. That return could easily be wiped out by increased insurance premiums, a malfunction that required repairs, or even scheduled maintenance and inspections. No combination made a positive return for the first ten years.
Even that small return is very optimistic, being dependent on the price of batteries dropping drastically over the period. That is, building up the battery capacity through the period as prices dropped because buying it all up front was a guaranteed loss even over twenty years (replacing batteries and other components as they reached EOL).
Yes - that’s a standard tariff so as the video says the payback is Meh. On a ToU payback is higher because peak is higher and you can charge cheaply at night for the morning peak. So for high energy users in ToU payback can be twice as good.
Swapping to a TOU doesn't actually improve the breakeven time. Its only reducing it because the relative cost of the TOU is higher than a flat rate tariff. Its not an apples to apples comparison.
IMHO…. initially solar was great, my bills went from over $450 down to $50 until the power companies Reduce your feedin tariffs now I’m paying about what I paid before I had solar!?!?batteries Don’t last long So you have to buy new ones before you’ve even paid off the initial ones. 😮😢
It's easy to be angry at the power companies, but that is likely misplaced. The tariff goes down due to every man and his dog doing the same thing, trying to sell power at the exact same time when it's sunny.
When we all have batteries, they’ll just boost the daily supply charge even more. About half of my current bill is just supply charges.
Can someone explain to me why a 10kwh battery costs at least $10k while I can buy a BYD Atto3 with a 60 kwh battery for $50k? This implies the rest of the car is worth a negative number?????
A home battery works harder. It can be fully charged and drained more than once per day. So there’s higher warranty liability. Also the packaging and onboard electronics are expensive. Then there’s the customer support and complex app and API to maintain. As the market gets more mature prices should come down.
I dont get why TOU plans decrease the payback, would you care to explain
Yeah that puzzled me a little.
Are they assuming you save on buying the extremely expensive peak rate electricity? Which doesnt make sense, because if you needed power at that time you wouldn't choose a TOU tariff.
Or are they assuming you charge the battery on the cheap off peak? But havent you already bought the massive solar array before you bought the battery? So that assumption doesnt make sense either.
Flat tariffs are say 25c all day. Let's say TOU is 17c during the days and 35c from 3pm to 9pm. It's the evening spike when you use most energy and where you have a full battery, ideally charged by solar but if there isn't enough you top up the battery at 17c and then use it during the evening peak.
@@hags568those were the cheapest rates about 12 to 18 months ago. You can add at least 10c to each of those today.
Good feedback - thank you. We'll explain this better next time. Generally it's not worth choosing to be on a ToU if you are currently on a good standard rate - but many people are being forced onto ToU tariffs, and this is where batteries can start to make sense financially.
more details here: www.solarquotes.com.au/battery-storage/payback/
In the USA you can rent them but not in out corporate first Australian
I researched batteries for home a few years ago and was told they do not protect from grid outages. I was told it is illegal to run solar and/or battery when the grid is down as the power can back feed into the grid while sparkies are working to rectify the outage issue.
It's ok as long as the system can island (isolate) itself from the grid :)
You say diy is a no go in Australia intimating that it is illegal or some such thing. This might be a bit misleading as it is not the case. Quality diy builds are being done all the time with quality cells and bms etc. diy is less than half price
Not grid connected.
Still almost no options for the millions (and growing) of unit and apartment - or lets call them more generally - body corporate properties around the country.
agreed - but they are coming - EcoFlow does a plug and play grid connect battery in the USA, which looks promising for this application - but will require Aussie battery standards to be more forgiving.
The challenge is getting permission to install and also the impact on common property from an insurance perspective. If insurance increases as a result of some owners having batteries then you can imagine owners without them objecting to paying more for insurance. So sadly I think body corporates are going to lag behind on this tech.
With an electric bill of £80 a month. Sinking 20 grand in to a solar and battery system seems like financial suicide. Take that 20k and buy stocks and get free electricity on the returns plus keep the investment. Prices need to come way down as this is not economical in any sense.
The issue with batteries is the exorbitant installation costs.
Expect a battery installation to start at $1,500. You are paying for at least 2 trades people including at least one battery-qualified sparky for a day, all the consumables (cables, breakers etc,), insurance, company overheads, and - for good companies - a sum set aside so they can provide ongoing support for the 10 years of warranty.
@@SolarQuotes and in some cases, it’s literally plug and play. Markups on equipment is also an issue.
@@69memnon69 plug and play?? Who told you that?
it appears a few $ may have changed hands for this
Nope.
The maths is totally wrong if not misleading.............touting unrealistic savings and where is the battery calculator on your site.
www.solarquotes.com.au/solar-calculator/
www.solarquotes.com.au/battery-storage/payback/
Good advice. Buyer beware
if CLP wins next election, its 12k rebate :) but everything cost more up here
Plus our power rate is pretty flat, no real savings even over 15 years
Be careful of the installer configuring your battery to sell back rather than self consumption. Not only will it cost you money but also prematurely wear your expensive battery.
who are you fooling buying a battery is a false economy for the tesla its around $14k to install so let say your annual electric bills are $800 to $1200 its going to take between 15 and 18 years before you see a return on the investment as you have paid for the electricity upfront to start, and dont forget you will need to replace it in around 10 to 12 years. not a good investment at all.
further to this the current wholesale cost for electricity is around $35 per MEGA watt (that's 1000 kilowatts) that's a mere 3.5 cents per kilowatts so you need to ask who's being ripped off by the electricity retailer when the charge a whopping 50+ cents per kilowatt and a further $1.30 odd for a daily supply charge!!!!!!!! Electricity should be way cheaper than it is.
I like the ad on tv asking people to check the serial numbers due to fire risk. I have wondered if there is a penalty on the house insurance due to lithium fires.
I don't have batteries or solar. My back up is a Honda generator.
I think these schemes and regulations that stop DIY battery installs is bogus and designed to prop up an industry that is holding us to ransom and is holding back battery adoption. I have a 14.4kWh LFP battery (all up cost $3k) that I am prohibited from connecting to my Inverter even though I am more than qualified technically - no, you have to be a "qualified solar installer" to install two low voltage cables, a comms cable and do some minor, brainless inverter configurations. All this created by regulatory BS pushed by greedy energy companies. It all stinks.
The problem is specific energy. Batteries by their very nature are not efficient at storing energy which is why they are so expensive. The system of intermittent renewables that Australia is investing in is driving up the consumer costs of electricity and the more we build the more expensive it gets.
Specific energy of the best battery Tesla has produced is 0.57 MJ per kg. CATL has just prototyped a 0.73 MJ per kg battery.
In comparison to the energy available in other media this is pathetic.
Petrol is 40 MJ per kg
Diesel is 42 MJ per kg
Black coal is 60 MJ per kg
Hydrogen is 141 MJ per kg
The clincher for efficiency and thus lower consumer electricity prices?
Uranium: 330,000,000 MJ per kg.
That is the actual answer to cheap consumer electricity with zero emissions and a reliable grid that has high capacity factors.
Batteries are a fool’s errand and rooftop solar creates a negative feedback loop that forces energy companies to drive their prices ever higher.
You think you can generate electricity at home more efficiently and cost effectively than a large power station? You are wrong. The delta T of your electrons matters, which is why thermal generators will alway be more efficient and thus produce cheaper costs per kWh.
With solar and batteries all you are doing is paying for your electricity up front while making yourself responsible for your own generation and the maintenance and eventual disposal and replacement of your system.
The answer is nuclear energy and it always has been. The physics and engineering don’t lie.
LOL someone’s been reading Vac Smil. Vac’s great at history, but can’t comprehend the future ( or the present now that it’s arrived). My house generates firmed kWhs cheaper than the Nuclear Power Station I used to work at. (I’m a big fan of nukes but not for Australia)
@@SolarQuotes
Firmed kWh? Lol… so you have your backup generation as well then.
You can’t fight physics. Batteries suck and small scale solar and battery systems do not produce cheap kwh. By the time you pre pay for all the installation and equipment there is no way you produced electricity more cheaply than industrial scale thermal generators. Physics.
I have never heard of whom you referenced but i do know physics and engineering and batteries and low energy density will never be capable of running an industrial economy or providing cheap electricity to consumers. Why? It’s not a technology problem it’s a physics problem.
You can use solar and batteries all you want, it’s a choice, but don’t suggest it’s somehow cheaper per kWh than industrial thermal power generators which is simply not the case.
Nuclear is the most efficient and and after coal, is the cheapest per kWh to generate electricity. It’s also more environmentally friendly than the millions of batteries that would be required to store even a fraction of the energy we require.
Batteries can be part of the future but it will all be enabled by baseload generators. If it’s not going to be coal then it will be nuclear.
Nuclear is the future of energy and it always has been: the technical argument for it are a lay down mesere’ .
Solar and batteries are for niche power generation only, in areas where is it not possible to build of get baseload generation.
They are too inefficient and too expensive and do not scale well.
@@SolarQuotes
Vaclav Smil certainly has some interesting books. Thanks for pointing him out.
Again physics don’t lie and you can’t change them. Batteries are not the future of energy. Energy density is the key to efficiency and batteries don’t have any.
Plus they all need to be manufactured and that is resource intensive and all made in China…
@@SolarQuotes "I’m a big fan of nukes but not for Australia"
Why not?
We have an unlimited supply of uranium
We don't have Earthquakes or Tsunami's
We have massive empty deserts where we could bury the waste
Australia seems to be the best place on the planet for nuclear power!
Damn, I thought I clicked onto an Aussie YTube right ? That’s what the title said! Out pops a pommy accent, blimey!😂
Maybe BushBarbie could do an intro before the technical stuffs. That might have lessen the confusion .
Sorry - been here 20 years, but can't shake off the Pommie accent. I'll wear my cork hat and singlet next video. 🤣🦘🇦🇺
Why would you pay many thousands of pounds to fix a potential massive incendiary to your home that is little different to those flaming EV cars you increasingly see.
The UK British Standards have just issued new regulations that deny fitment of batteries in lofts as they are considered to be too dangerous. An NHS hospital has just banned electric cars from their carparks as they are too dangerous.
Batteries could be useful in the winter months but in the UK winter sunlight hours are very low so mostly insufficient to power your home on a regular basis and certainly little excess power to top up a battery, I know this as my array is now in its twelfth year. Decembers, well forget this month for solar, you may as well turn it off.
I really hope you don’t have a flammable gas connection to your Pommie house!
So he talks about how power is dependent on it's physical arrangement and not it's financial market and then he talks about how it's dependent on the financial market. He talks about how power supply steadiness is dependent on the inertia in spinning machinery but doesn't mention how batteries can respond in fractions of a second to changes in need. He says it's a myth that wind and solar are free except wind and sunlight ARE free. It's the machinery that harnesses them and the means of connecting them to the grid that aren't free. Wind and solar are as free as the rain that eventually collects behind dams to run generators. Are dams and generators free? Are the plants that burn fossil fuel that is most definitely NOT free also free? He talks about how power bills have risen and seems to put that on wind, solar and batteries but solar has dropped 90% in cost over the past decade, wind 60% and batteries over 80%. How is that increasing electricity costs. Could it be some other factor? He's referenced a lot of detail in his talk but hasn't gone into it.
lol waste of money just do the math ur looking at least 9 years to pay of the battery and that if you fully charge it with excess solar every day and drain the battery every nigh
that not taking into account that the battery will lose capacity over time
Waste of money,always has been.Play the numbers how you like,once our batteries died we had to replace them.This was after we had to replace the invertor,and so and on.
So many inaccuracies. "Sticking it to your family" as a reason to do solar so very shallow of you and everyone who feels like that.
Right, so in Australia (which is hot), a battery will break even (i.e not save you anything) realistically between 10-20 years, at the same time only having a useful life of 12-14 years... got it.
Seems like an expensive way to put $15k into someone else's pocket for best part of 2 decades while you basically get nothing for it, just turn shit off at the wall people!
The battery won't last three payback period
They go boom sometimes. Plus, whether you have solar power at home or not, you the tax payer are already paying for it.
As soon as you mentioned the price that was the end of this video for me,,,,,,,,,,, Try again!!!!!.
Just reporting the facts, Ralph!
15k for 10kw hahahaha
Buy a written off electric car from the auctions, boom cheap battery
For sure! But challenging to get permission to connect it to the grid in Australia. And be careful - or it might just go 'boom'.
The only thing you ever need to know, don't buy LG
Battery = dreaming.
Lost me at the weather getting wilder and more unpredictable... Obviously hasn't done enough research
And gave your battery burn down your house
The number of house fires started by home batteries can be counted on one hand. Most lithium battery related house fires are due to poor quality lithium battery and /or chargers associated with e-scooters and other devices.
It looks looks like Tesla is, technically, the best current option. I just don't see how it's something anyone would like to to show their friends, given the creature running the company. If anything it's an anti-status symbol.
LOL
You forgot your pronouns.
@@is-ness mate, you totally misunderstood me. I'm not the one who mentioned the "cool factor" of having a battery. Wether you like it or not, the brand Tesla is joined by the hip with Elon. If you and and most of your friends belive he is the second coming of Jesus, your Tesla battery is a major status symbol. If I and most of my friends believe Elon is a scum then the brand also gets tainted and the "cool factor" is gone. Again, I did not mention that, the video did.
@@is-ness mate, you totally misunderstood me. Wether we like it or not Tesla is jointed by the hip with Elon. If you and your friends believe that Elon is the second coming of Christ, then Tesla battery has a "cool factor". If I and my friends belive he is scum, then the "cool factor" is gone. Again I'm not the one who suggested "cool factor", it's in the video.
Terrible fire hazard no thanks
Snake oil salesman..
Just shows how stupid the electricity system has become.