There is a lot wrong here | Response to

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 28

  • @flailingsamurai9785
    @flailingsamurai9785 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    There are also differences to the longer video where the Spanish dudes played with swords. Overall, it's also strange not to even pay lip service to the actual ryuha and how they do things, since the texts alone leave so many things open.

    • @NathanaelTheAussie
      @NathanaelTheAussie  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Indeed, there were various issues I had with that vid. Considering I have to use time in between schoolwork and looking after a toddler, the best I could do was to focus on his two shorter vids.
      To be fair, there is nothing wrong with purely looking at the historically contemporary texts (as opposed to the ryuha today) IF your goal is to view the practices in a specific snapshot in time before various changes were put in place. I do the same for my living history group’s context.
      The biggest issue, in my opinion, is the fact that he does not seem to be doing this research and sharing of it in an intellectually honest or genuine way, and that he seems to be showing a critical lack of basic knowledge of fencing to inform his “interpretations”.

    • @flailingsamurai9785
      @flailingsamurai9785 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@NathanaelTheAussie well, ignoring the current practitioners is a bit like ignoring artwork from times gone by. It may or may not be correct, but I'd expect people to at least look into it to gauge whether there is something to it or not. Heck, even talk to those folks. Likewise, one ought to be critical to the texts too, which this dude hasn't seem to have addressed in his "studies" either.

    • @NathanaelTheAussie
      @NathanaelTheAussie  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@flailingsamurai9785This is true, I understand what you are saying now 👍 Research must be multifaceted, even if it does have a primary source that it usually adheres to. Ironically, many of the issues from Anthony’s practice, in my opinion, come from the way he “grapples” with the texts and puts the info out there.
      I have looked at videos and books from modern koryu practitioners on the occasion if I need to look at possible interpretations to fill in gaps I identify in the texts. I have also worked with koryu-ka in the past and still do on the occasion.
      Purely due to context, though, I prefer to start at the texts for research purposes as they are historically contemporary to the era on which I am focusing.

  • @SengokuStudies
    @SengokuStudies 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Although I collaborate with him and others on monthly history videos, and I have made a couple of video for his channel, I do have.... thoughts and opinions on his martial arts stuff.

    • @mekugi
      @mekugi 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Fence-post sitter! 😊

    • @NathanaelTheAussie
      @NathanaelTheAussie  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      People are of course more than welcome to collaborate with him, as is their right.
      I personally have many issues with his approach, methodology, demeanour in research and interacting with others, but that is me based on my experience.

    • @SengokuStudies
      @SengokuStudies 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@NathanaelTheAussie I did not mean to imply I thought you meant people weren't. I just meant to put it there as clarification/transparency that I do collaborate with him some. That being said, I also do have a number of disagreements/issues with certain aspects. I think it becomes even more apparent in his martial arts stuff. I am not sure how it works with European manuals, but the Japanese manuals are not manuals in the sense that they are there to teach one how to do things (well not usually). The vast majority of them are written for students of the school who will have had live training in what is in the manual. Manuals are usually at best like "study guides" for people who know that there is more than what is written in them. (in this I am speaking of what could most closely be called manuals, not densho and mokoroku, ect..)

    • @NathanaelTheAussie
      @NathanaelTheAussie  7 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@SengokuStudies No problem, didn’t mean to criticise. My apologies if that is what it looked like.
      From my experience, studying HJMA is similar in some ways and different in others (to HEMA specifically). This, of course, goes without saying. While I have my own opinions on this topic it is not relevant to this video, though it is an interesting discussion for sure.
      The goal of this video I am making though, as I am sure you understand, is not to claim HEMA and HJMA approaches are the same but, rather, to highlight the errors Anthony is making in his approach.
      I appreciate you putting your thoughts here and taking the time to watch the vid 🙏 I can understand the conflict you feel. I have tried to reach out to Anthony more than once, but my experiences had me conclude he had a lot to be desired in terms of integrity and genuineness.

    • @TheCCBoi
      @TheCCBoi 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@SengokuStudiesI agree. I enjoy his videos but I had a debate about this topic in his video comments. He made video response to my comment stating that the Samurai manual are complete and can be taken at face value. Which I highly disagree with.

  • @aspen77rt
    @aspen77rt หลายเดือนก่อน

    From another perspective. I have no experience in kenjutsu nor do I care to. However I do read and study books from other styles as I'm interested in historical parallel developments. I train formally in German Longsword. My first reading of The Sword & the Mind (Hiroaki Sato) I read the Itto Ryodan. To my German Long sword eyes and experience, it begins in Nebenhut guard, slightly out of measure, stepping forward offline with right foot into to a right Oberhau to the hands plain as day. Very basic and effective as written.

    • @NathanaelTheAussie
      @NathanaelTheAussie  หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@aspen77rt Thanks for leaving your genuine thoughts 🙏
      Starting from further back is definitely an option, and this is something I feel I could have added here. I also train in HEMA, predominantly German and Italian sources for arming sword, longsword, dagger, pole arms and ringen.
      I have made a multilayered interpretation of this in a different vid you may find interesting.

  • @Adam-bu3lm
    @Adam-bu3lm 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    If the translation says "advance the left foot" it is more likely that they are in advanced range then it is to interpret it as a foot swap. Do other techniques talk about advancing at the start? I'm a hema guy, and i know two itto ryu kata. They both involve advancing 3 steps before swords connect. I think advancing foot work is pretty common in kenjutsu ryuha. Just a thought.
    edit to say this is strictly my view on interpretation. That adding or changing what words mean undermine the author and translator. A simple change in context (ie distance) is preferable to the aforementioned changing of words and meanings. I notice those two translations are quite different, and I would definitely want to seek out a third translation.
    Also I do not follow Mr. Cummins I haven't seen him on my feed in forever, I was surprised to see this video show up as recommended at all. HOWEVER, I am pretty sure he gets most of his translations from his wife(?), Yoshie, and I suspect you can find the translation in the book he has been pushing this entire time. It seems weird to ignore that fact.

    • @NathanaelTheAussie
      @NathanaelTheAussie  7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Thanks for leaving a comment and your thoughts 😊🙏 advancing footwork can happen in any system, but they happen in situations when it is martially viable to do so.
      Like any historical martial artist, one must use what one has available in order to develop an interpretation. The key is to make sure that the translations that are used are credible and from qualified individuals (which is something Anthony does not often do). The other key to any form of interpretation is to ensure that yours fits within the credible translations available which, as I explain in my video, Anthony is also not doing. There is no mention of distance in the texts I have read, but there is a mention of advancing a foot, hence my interpretation. If we add in a level of distance we are, technically, no longer in the realms of the written words in the text. Not disagreeing with you that it could indeed be meant to be done out of distance, but we need to be careful before we add words that aren’t there imo. Despite this, Anthony performs a counter that would require him to be within range anyways immediately after adopting the position, so my critique of him regarding range still stands.
      I very much agree that adding or changing words can be a risky move in any HMA study, but advancing the left foot to replace the right foot is not adding in words. You are advancing your left foot, just not as a passing step. Adding in the concept of “range/starting further back”, however, while martially valid would indeed be adding words that aren’t there imo.
      If Anthony’s words can be backed up by credible translations from qualified individuals, and base his conclusions on sound martial principles, then I am happy to simply agree to disagree but at least respect the interpretation he puts forward. Unfortunately, I have yet to see this happen.
      Anthony’s approach to solo research and cooperative research also has a plethora of problems, but I will not go into these details here due to it not being relevant to the video. In short, it is one of the reasons why I do not utilise his texts very much as there are much more reliable works available.
      Using an Itto ryu kata can help, but it is a kata with an unknown level of change (or continuity) over the centuries demonstrated by modern practitioners which does not, and should not, hold as much historical validity as it does to use the historically contemporary texts. I am not flatly against using any words from modern practitioners at all, but I personally think that it should not be our main go-to when researching historical martial texts from within a completely different socio-martial context.

    • @Adam-bu3lm
      @Adam-bu3lm 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@NathanaelTheAussie the jma community has always had an "appeal to authority" mindset that I find unhealthy. The hema community is built on the backs of amateur translators. Some of the best translations are done by people who don't speak the language (or at the very least didn't before they started the project), let alone languages like early high new german. But that's ok. Nothing the grimm's dictionary couldn't fix.
      I've posted two examples of advancing the left foot forward. One in distance, and one out of distance. Changing the meaning to swap just seems more egregious to me. The word advancing implies a closing of distance, pushing forward. I'm not adding the word "distance", it's part of the definition.
      I have no problems with Cummins using an amateur translator, and doing amateur interpretations, and even selling those amateur and even embellished translations. The problem has always been this weird cult shit that pops up in these weird ninja circles.
      I just skimmed like a 5 part thesis on why Cummins is a fraud, and half of it is BS. That much energy could he put into translating and providing material for hist.jap.martial artists. And even providing their own interpretations. But what I see is an appeal to authority mindset from people unwilling to explore and learn how to fence. (Not directed at you)
      Woe is the hobby dictated by only those with PhDs.

    • @NathanaelTheAussie
      @NathanaelTheAussie  7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@Adam-bu3lm I feel you are taking a lot of what I have said very much out of context text (eg: elitism, JMA gate keeping, ninja cults etc). Not sure why we are bringing up cults when I am simply saying we should be faithful to reliable sources translated by qualified translators.
      Please keep in mind that I am not a formal student of any JMA system of any sort, which I make clear at the beginning of my video that I am coming at this purely from the perspective of a martial artist and researcher with access to two texts translated by qualified people. I am not a holder of a PhD either. However, I am sure neither of us would trust someone as a physiotherapist if they did not have a formal qualification/s and experience in that field. Translators are the same. If we don’t have any such translations available, then this is where amateur translators come in. However, these qualified translations ARE available.
      You are welcome to think it is fine to promote and sell embellished translations and texts on historical content. I too am fine so long as it is done in good faith and honesty in what it is doing and how it is embellished. When this honesty is lacking, we are instead creating a false narrative and profiting from it. From all evidence I have seen, this is unfortunately what Anthony seems to be doing. If you still think there is no problem with this then all good, agree to disagree.
      Translation and interpretation (when it comes between languages specifically) is a complex skill that requires various levels of abilities in order to do, the work of a translator, particularly when it comes to historical texts, is extensive to say the least.
      I didn’t say you added the word distance, my meaning was you are adding in a context (starting at an advanced range) when two translations of the text don’t mention it whatsoever.
      At the end of the day, we all are simply interpreting from the resources that we have. Nothing wrong at all with interpretation. What I feel we all need to be doing though is:
      1) Our interpretation is faithful to sources translated by formally qualified and experienced individuals.
      2) Our interpretation is martially sound.
      3) It is open to be changed if new and better research (connecting to point 1) has been made available and discovered
      4) We do all of the above in good faith
      If you disagree with the above, then am happy to agree to disagree. However, I stand by my critique in my video.

    • @Adam-bu3lm
      @Adam-bu3lm 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@NathanaelTheAussie sorry I was airing my grievance over the state of jma and hjma politics. In a single day I got a big wiff it, and felt like talking about it. Like I said, it's not directed at you.
      But even between these two "qualified" individuals their translations are wildly different, and they seem to offer no footnotes into their translation decisions. Their translations are just as meaningless as Cummins'. I don't have his book, but I've seen him talk out a translation and interpret it on the fly, and I can at least say Cummins interpretations match the translations he uses.
      Edit:
      And further more. If Cummins translation does have these key elements that the other two translators have then maybe his translations are worth some salt.

    • @NathanaelTheAussie
      @NathanaelTheAussie  7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Adam-bu3lm All good mate. I appreciate that we need to vent at times 😊🙏 I agree that being elitist for its own sake and ignoring the contribution of interpretations from those outside of the dojo are undesirable for various reasons.
      The difference in translations can be due to various reasons, including some parts of a poetic nature being translated one way over another. This video is not about how amazing the translations are, but focusing on what these qualified translators of Classical Japanese texts have given us. If there is another translation out there by a qualified translator of Classical Japanese I am always keen to find them, so if you find another one and let me know I would be sincerely grateful 🙏
      To be honest, as Anthony often will add his own meaning into texts without clarifying, we have no idea which parts are original and which parts are added (and this is ignoring the fact that Ms Yoshie Minami cannot read Classical Japanese). This a process echoed across Anthony’s work, hence why I prefer to use other more credible sources.
      Nothing wrong with adding own meaning into texts, so long as one is honest about it and honest about how their added meaning can change the overall meaning of the text. However, as I have said before and identified in my critique video, Anthony has yet to do this.
      If people wish to continue watching his material that is perfectly their right to do so, and it is not my right to tell them otherwise. However, I continue to stand by the points I have made in this video.

  • @openthekimonoco
    @openthekimonoco 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Nice in theory but, excuse me but! a constructive criritcal break-down
    - Mathew has no cut - Mathews “swapping cut" looks/is more like “hacking.”
    for example at 6:45 “Swapping and Passing” shows that Mathew is using his body as the cutting mechanisim, it’s weight used the same time as the sword/cut.
    Any slight movement of the hips should/would cause a leverage between both hands, leveraging the sword, which he never has.
    Separate the sword cut and speed and weight from the body, isolate/separate the lower torso from upper torso creating a delay between body and cut.
    Within a second at the beginning of the “swapping” with the armpits closed his beginning movement would be better by stepping in closing the maii under the sword, before he cuts on landing, this will leverage the sword. The stepping back will create and finish the cut.
    The cut and the body movement need to be different part of a second, with practice.
    Everything should be/beginning at the feet, 70/30 torifune
    equals leverage.

  • @Jiko-ryu
    @Jiko-ryu 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    That Cummins is dependent on the Hiroaki translation in Itto-ryodan, and in fact with most of his reconstructions, is also my guess, as the actual Japanese writing is closer to Wilson's.

  • @JustaBug
    @JustaBug 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    But Nate its an *illuuuuuusion*
    NIce video and I like how youve put out some swordsmanship basics to put the form in context. Its easy to come up with all sorts of interpretations when not bound with non compliant pressure testing

    • @NathanaelTheAussie
      @NathanaelTheAussie  8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Pretty much 🤷‍♂️
      Thanks for the kind words mate 🙏 it is a common theme throughout a lot of Anthony’s work.

  • @TheCCBoi
    @TheCCBoi 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great breakdown and analysis - I would be great to see your perspective on how to apply the technique.

    • @NathanaelTheAussie
      @NathanaelTheAussie  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Cheers for the kind words mate 🙏
      That might be an idea for another video (in the list of vids to get to 😅). The interpretation has 3 layers of application depending on what the opponent does. The video is on my living history group’s instagram as well if people want to have a look beforehand.

  • @mekugi
    @mekugi 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Howdy Nate!