I am wearing a modified mail armor sponsored by lords of battles: medieworld.com/product/flat-ring-chainmail-hauberk-shirt-riveted-and-alternating-id-9mm-stainless-steel/ Greetings Dequitem
Hallo dequitem, du bist leider total falsch was den Überhand/ Arm Griff anbelangt, das wichtige ist das du beim zustechen den speer nur zwischen Daumen Zeige und Mittelfinger hällst, ähnlich wie beim werfen, so das der Speer waagerecht bleibt ohne das du dein Handgelenk knicken musst. diesen Griff finden wir auch in unzähligen Zeichungen von damals wieder. Was wichtig ist ist das Kämpfe mit Spear und Schild ja vorallem in der Gruppe in teils enger Formation stattfinden, dementsprechend kann man nur über die Schulter stechen. Hier nochmal als Viedo: th-cam.com/video/MD2l4T0rpDY/w-d-xo.html
@@giftzwerg7345 hi, du hast da einen Punkt, ja im Video zeige ich einen sehr starren Griff und versuche nicht mal richtig zuzustechen, das liegt eher daran, dass ich die Aufnahme dreimal machen musste (Kamera Probleme). Also ja man kann da noch einiges an Reichweite rausholen, aber man wird niemals die selbe Griff Kraft und mit gleicher Reichweite erhalten. Lediglich in sehr enger Formation oder wenn man sich die Möglichkeit zum Wurf offen halten möchte, kann ein Überhandgriff wie du es nennst sinnvoll sein. Legst du es darauf an, mehrfach aus verschiedenen Winkeln mit voller reichweite zu stechen ist ein konventioneller Griff, wie ich ihn im Video bevorzuge, deutlich sinnvoller. Auch historische Gemälde widersprechen dem nicht und sind oft uneindeutig welche handstellung oder ob ein Stich oder Wurf gezeigt wird. Manchmal ist es sinnvoll auch in Stichreichweite unter 3 Metern seine Speer zu werfen um so den Gegner zu überraschen und schneller zur Zweitwaffe zu greifen. Liebe Grüße Dequitem.
I think it's debatable, though. I'd just call it equipment, as a more neutral term. Good shield use incorporates bashing, o even thrusting if it has a pointed end. Thinking of it like armor, in my opinion, sets you up to be more passive with it. A shield, same as a sword, is a tool for combat, after all!
@@Nicko69140 Well the average person thinks "vikings" were a race and culture. So I guess there's that. Calling them Normans would just confuse people. Its sad but probably the biggest reason.
I need to show this to my training partners so I won't kill them so often anymore. ^^ But seriously, very interesting to see pre-renaissance stuff. Late medieval kit is fancy but there is some simplistic beauty in the earlier style.
The Norman knights also had longer mail that protected the thighs, and sometimes they had mail covering the shins like shown on the Bayeux Tapestry, the Normans also used double mail to protect the chest. Excellent video, very informative.
This is so cool! In a way it kind of seems like later period plate armors were more of a technological development via tradeoffs: less mobility, and less convenience (need squire to put on and take off plates). But with those disadvantages you get overall better protection. But that doesn't mean plate armor is necessarily better than mail armor. Clearly the defense you get with mail and the padding underneath is way better than most tend to assume it would be.
I defenetly had better mobility with only the mail armor, but it wasn't significant and the plate armor feels much better and don't tire you out that fast, because the plates sit more on your hip and not at the shoulders. So I defenetly prefer the plate armor.
Nice stuff as always! I parttake in early medieval combat trainings myself so its always so nice to see how other people figure out how to make it relatively safe
I absolutely love riveted mail armor. I've a darkened steel 4-in-1 hauberk that I can wear all day, is battle-ready, and (reasonably) easy to don solo. You kit looks similar and IMO even better 🙂 Wonderful video!
@@dequitem Same person, Harold Godwinson is Harold the II (of England). I just know him by the name Harold Godwinson best. Died at Hastings during the Battle of Hastings.
Man, it is really cool to share us different kind of eras and armors. Could you please continue with this kind of video? Like, Byzantine, Turkish and Frankish armors from the same era? (lamellar amors for example too)
What’s your dream armor set? A combination of cultures and styles that both offer maximum protection and style? Of course, the former is more important.
Viking Berserker Style, nude with only a Bearskull on your Head .😁 Furious, screaming, Out of Control Mode , running to the Fight Fear is half winning the battle 😉
How about attacking/protecting the legs. You are probably familiar with the battle at Visby in 1361. I seem to recall, that he mass graves of the fallen gotlanders showed many leg injuries. Some even had both lower legs cut off in one blow... Great show by the way!
Yes and that's defenetly an issue with this armor. Sure the triangular shield helps a lot but in a battle that's an issue. I didn't noticed till now that I didn't talked about leg strikes.
@@BelieverOfChrist2 Not really. Norman knights didn't have much in terms of leg protection, but the mail would typically cover the top of the legs, sometimes up to the knee. The teardrop shields could also be a bit longer. The one I trained with would cover my whole leg (but not both legs at the same time, however, the second one would be further away). You can typically protect the leg OR the head with the shieldn, but not both.
@@alexandreboureau6175 the kite shield does a good job at protecting the legs maybe, but i still don't see why they would choose to not wear any leg armour at all, not like it makes you much slower probably not universal, some probably did, others didn't
As a big fan of S.M. Stirling's Dies the Fire book series, it is fascinating to see a medieval re-creator show how Norman armor would be recreated to be used in combat...which is exactly what happens in part of the books. When Dequitem lowers the kite shield to just below his eye-line, and I got a real rush of remembrance reading those books.
The interesting thing is that the logic behind the augmentation to the mail is similar to the transitional plates added to mail over the periods, particularly grieves, upper vambraces, gorget, and gull faced or visored helmets.
During the Hastings campaign armour used by both sides used maille tassets of sorts to cover the groin and upper thigh better, cloth underlayer bound to the maille and a theory that there were tubular parts to protect above the knee of the leg as the leg wraps weren't that good against thrusts
Normans typically fought while mounted. I think the real victors of Hastings were the horses, not to mention Harold had defeated a Norwegian army just 2 weeks earlier.
The set looks good! This is interesting from a movement perspective. And very cool to see. But as a true test of the armour's protection this is even more limited than the plate. Because you aren't using any sharps (or you better not be, we'd like to keep you around Dequitem!). We know from the sources that many of the thrusting swords with fine points, and the spears, and certainly the daggers _could_ penetrate mail, though of course not always, so I'm curious how you're "scoring" hits and really evaluating how the mail stands up to thrusts. It is impressive though the ways you've modified things to be as safe as possible. Though I think you may want to see if you can limit the sag on your arms as much as possible. I have heard that even a little bit can just make arm movement more taxing than it needs to be, and fitting it as close as you can to the body relieves this. Very good work, on a period that's relatively underrepresented.
I test different weapons against the mail armor and I will release a video to this topic soon. You will be surprised how hard it is to penetrate mail armor!
@@BelieverOfChrist2 Sure, but they existed during the period where mail predominated. Oakshott type xv's are found in art from the early 1200's, and became the standard only a little later, and regardless they were still fighting mail. What's really being tested is a predominantly shield and mail based defense system, not what a Norman Knight might actually encounter (after all, the person Dequitem was fighting was not kitted with what a Norman knight would typically fight against.) and one of the weapons (among the others I mentioned) that you would use against that system, would be a sword with a narrow tip. Are those more predominant a bit later than this? Yes. But they were developed to compete with mail, and kept being useful against plate because they could handle the mail in any exposed areas.
@@Lurklen this video is strictly about norman armour though what a norman knight would encounter could vary, they could encounter; axes, a lot of spears, swords, and arrows swords with a narrow tip were not widespread in this period, we could talk about later gun development and it's effect against armor, but the topic is strictly norman knights the swords with narrow tips also came in use due to early development of plate armour so how did they combat maille? spears or sturdy swords that could transfer some force into the rings, multiple hits and maybe you can create an opening but combat wasn't just focused on hitting the other dude where he is armoured the most
@@BelieverOfChrist2 Is it? "Today I am standing in full Norman Armour. Today I want to talk about how does it feel, to only fight in high medieval mail armour. And if it is possible to do this without big injuries." Because it sounds like what he said was that it was focused on if you could reliably fight in a high medieval mail and shield kit without getting injured, and he tested that in a Norman get up accordingly. No, combat wasn't focused on only trying to hit the most armoured parts of a body. But armour was focused on protecting the parts you were most likely to be hit, and least wanted to suffer an injury. While many weapons were designed to try to bypass that armour. The whole point of engaging in the kind of study Dequitem does, is to try to see how effective those weapons are against the various kinds of armour. One of those weapons might be a more pointed sword. "the swords with narrow tips also came in use due to early development of plate armour" The type xv, which is a sword with a narrow point, predates the prevalence of plate, but became more popular and ubiquitous (though, relatively few surviving examples exist, it is all over the place in art from across a broad period) and while it was helpful in mitigating plate, the way it did so was by being used on the mail in the gaps. I've seen it depicted as early as the 1220's. Which would be part of the High Medieval period he's looking at. And as its use was in defeating mail, and that is what he is testing, I brought it up. In his reply to me he said he had another video testing the mail against various weapons in the works. We'll see what he uses and finds.
Fascinating stuff. How heavy is this (including the shield) compared to late medieval full plate? To what extent would you say the shield can be used offensively, as a battering weapon?
@@dequitem Interesting. Is that mostly because of the shield, or because the weight of the hauberk is mostly on your shoulders rather than distributed better over your body?
Fantastic video, I've enjoyed learning about the Normans for a long time now and their impact on history. This style of armor and weaponry has always been my personal favorite throughout the medieval period. I am curious if this style of spear is the same that they would use on horseback as a lance, and how fighting in this would look with an axe or a mace, but otherwise I feel like this is very educational.
Yes lances back then were essentially the same as spears used on foot. But all techniques with this are speculative since we have no surviving martial arts manuscripts dating back this early.
I love how you're applying a lot of your experience in how one would fight in this kit but I wonder how "experienced" was the average soldier of the period. Were they just a bunch of armored hooligans or did they all fight with high levels of critical thought for every action?
It depends. There are defenetly knights in this kind of armor who mayby train more than my 6 hours the week. But also people how only learned a couple of days how to use the weapons and armor. The principles shown in this video are very simple so I think they should be known by most fighters of the past.
Mail armor, the first medieval bling. Low Protection; High Charisma. 😎👌 What about Plate-Mail Armor? Mail armor with embedded plates like the Moro Armor from the Philippines. Your thoughts? Is it good? Is it bad? Or a bit of both? 🙃
I want to see a battle with Ottoman or Persian armour next. It's lighter than European 15th century armour, so I want to know how that affects fighting, and how it affects horse archery.
There never was an ottoman or any guy with ottoman armor with the fighting skill or balls to contact me. So unfortunately I can't make a video without an opponent.
@@BelieverOfChrist2 Well you gotta make some shortcuts. Although a full high medieval amour with crusader insignia would send a strong message ... hmmmh
Truly fascinating stuff! Your channel is such a gold mine for medieval enthusiast Quick question: can you share a bit more about your experience with heat when fighting in mail? For context: I own 2 set of hauberk(aluminum and stainless steel), and from wearing them as part of costumes, I always had a pretty bad experience trying to last very long in them due to the heat during summer, and had to drop any extra padding underneath (I was wearing just a linen shirt essentially, since I wasn’t doing combat). I can’t imagine how ppl deal with exhaustion and heat… Another question: any thoughts on tailored hauberk? I notice I have more comfortable movement of my arm and elbow after switching to a tailored shirt, but again since I don’t do real combat I don’t know how much of it actually matters… Thank you! Love to see more of this!
It may be counterintuitive, but padding under Mail Armor didn't seem to be that common. In iconography the knights are very well tailored if not anatomical in their mail armor. No room for padding. Also: if you wanted padding underneath, the mailarmor became more expensive and more heavy. I don't try to sell this as an absolute fact, but as a nice piece of an ongoing debate. I formyself think it is true that they did wear something very loght under the Mail, but not a Gambeson. If there is a source that says otherwise, I am very happy to look into it😊
I’ve been very curious about how hot it is wearing a mail shirt, especially when you’re wearing padded clothing underneath. On one hand, it’s a pretty heavy coat of metal rings so you naturally heat up when carrying it on your body. On the other hand, the openings between the links seem like they’d facilitate some air flow. Wonder if that’s part of the reason why the Ottomans used mail armor well into the 16th and 17th centuries.
This mail looks so nice! Can the fencing mask take strikes from maces etc? A SCA visor (american football style-like those used in buhurt) would protect the face from any blunt weapon. Also, I suggest that you increase the available length of the guige strap by attaching it as low as possible to the shield board. If both attachment points are 1-2 inches over the center of mass/point of balance you'd be good to go and a guige long enough to extend the almost the whole arm forwards or upwards to intercept an attack midway or completely cover the head. Your guige seems to be too short to extend your left hand far enough to fully cover the head and a downward strike with the flail would hit the head or left shoulder 99% of the time.
Flails are not a big weapon in this time period. The strab hasn't to be so long. I think the most dangerous weapon in this circumstances is a daneaxe, if you can raise the shield high enough to protect your shoulders from the axe blade, you are fine. The fencing mask will unfortunately not handle maces, even sword strikes will leave bruises on your face, but it is better than nothing!
Hallo, What I don't quite understand is that you did say that the force is distributed when a war hammer or similar handweapon hits your armour, but if it happens to your head several times in a row with full force you will most likely, if not get a hole in your head, then you will definitely feel strong concussions that will make you dizzy or even incapable of fighting. It can't be any other way for physical reasons, can it? A hit to the breastplate is different, but the control center head-helmet, with let's say a 3kg hammer times momentum x mass x weight = 50kg hitting a small point on your head, that has to have an effect. Even if there is no hole in the helmet, metal hits Skull bone and subsequently the brain. There are good animations of boxers showing what happens to the contents of the skull when it is shaken from outside, how the brain swings around and you suffer at least a concussion or even become unconscious, knocked out. I'm a layman but that's what my level of knowledge tells me or am I wrong? And why? Thanks, Danke 😉
Warhammer is only 1,3 kg max! But even than yes a strike to the helmet can be a problem for the brain, but much less than in boxing were there is no Helm that can take away much of the force and direct the hit in other directions!
Do you know how warriors with Dane axes fought? Would they hide behind their shieldbrothers, simply ditch the shield but wear the same armour as the Norman knight, or would they be even heavier armoured to compensate for the lack of a shield?
What sort of hard protection do you use, and how tough is it? I started wondering if Normans of the time would have had anything that would have been able to do that as well, since you note it as significant and giving some critical protection for bones in certain areas.
I have some very well made "Kohlefaser-aramit" protectors (expensive but light and very strong) I will show them in a video soon. In the high medival times they used whale bone for hart shell protection. The first gauntlets were made from whale bone.
Oy oy... i took strike from sword in chin when im use my Nasal helmet with mailecoif of 6mm riveted rings and lose one teeth so you know depend on situation.
Oh boy, just recording for this video seem to have tired you out something crazy! Certainly does seems more tiring, considering the weight isn't distributed as well as in plate. What kind of maintenance did you need to do on your mail hauberk? I always had the goofy idea of wearing a mail shirt under normal clothing, but considering that it probably needs to be oiled in order not to rust kind of put me off.
@@dequitem Well then, compliments to your stamina then! As true as it may be that armor isn't that heavy, moving around in it while wielding relatively heavy things violently is certainly a whole different thing.
Minor correction Sir, your shield is not Norman but a shield of Eleventh Century. Bye middle of the Eleventh Century armour was going through modification. So one can not strictly call it Norman. Look at The Bayou Tapestry, there you will find a true representation of true Norman Armour. Not in transition.
In the 12th century the kite shield becomes flat and the nasal helmet gets a hook in front to attach the mail. Both is represented on my small recreation, but of course, there are some failures!
Am I right i thinking you would get destroyed by someone in full plate? I understand Normans say in 1066 predates plate armor in Europe, so its not something a Norman would have to worry about when wearing chain mail.
i wonder, would you be able to perform throws? (like in judo, for example, an o-goshi) i've seen you do some cool osoto gari sorry to hear about your arm by the way
@@dequitem I imagine it's more protective than the fencing gear that we use for regular hema, tell them to stop acting like little girls and fight u LMFAO XD
And now for the conclusion: mostly like that, yeah! The main difference I see is that the Roman shield is center-gripped, while the kite-shield is strapped, although I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes. We also don't know how much the Romans used their pilum as a regular spear, instead of just throwing it - but if they did, they probably used it like the Normans used their spears.
Ooo I absolutely recommend to wear some extra padding and hart shell protection, but I didn't do it myself in all parts of my body. It depends on how much bruises you wanna have on your body 😅
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I am wearing a modified mail armor sponsored by lords of battles:
medieworld.com/product/flat-ring-chainmail-hauberk-shirt-riveted-and-alternating-id-9mm-stainless-steel/
Greetings Dequitem
Hallo dequitem, du bist leider total falsch was den Überhand/ Arm Griff anbelangt, das wichtige ist das du beim zustechen den speer nur zwischen Daumen Zeige und Mittelfinger hällst, ähnlich wie beim werfen, so das der Speer waagerecht bleibt ohne das du dein Handgelenk knicken musst. diesen Griff finden wir auch in unzähligen Zeichungen von damals wieder. Was wichtig ist ist das Kämpfe mit Spear und Schild ja vorallem in der Gruppe in teils enger Formation stattfinden, dementsprechend kann man nur über die Schulter stechen.
Hier nochmal als Viedo: th-cam.com/video/MD2l4T0rpDY/w-d-xo.html
@@giftzwerg7345 hi, du hast da einen Punkt, ja im Video zeige ich einen sehr starren Griff und versuche nicht mal richtig zuzustechen, das liegt eher daran, dass ich die Aufnahme dreimal machen musste (Kamera Probleme).
Also ja man kann da noch einiges an Reichweite rausholen, aber man wird niemals die selbe Griff Kraft und mit gleicher Reichweite erhalten. Lediglich in sehr enger Formation oder wenn man sich die Möglichkeit zum Wurf offen halten möchte, kann ein Überhandgriff wie du es nennst sinnvoll sein. Legst du es darauf an, mehrfach aus verschiedenen Winkeln mit voller reichweite zu stechen ist ein konventioneller Griff, wie ich ihn im Video bevorzuge, deutlich sinnvoller. Auch historische Gemälde widersprechen dem nicht und sind oft uneindeutig welche handstellung oder ob ein Stich oder Wurf gezeigt wird. Manchmal ist es sinnvoll auch in Stichreichweite unter 3 Metern seine Speer zu werfen um so den Gegner zu überraschen und schneller zur Zweitwaffe zu greifen.
Liebe Grüße
Dequitem.
you may not agree but this is peak male fashion
Peak female fashion too.
Peak fashion, for everyone.
Agreed
@@fujiwaranomokou9213 didnt know females could be knights??
Deus Vult
@@BelieverOfChrist2 didnt know only knights could wear armor
Love the mentioning of the shield as part of the armor
I think it's debatable, though. I'd just call it equipment, as a more neutral term. Good shield use incorporates bashing, o even thrusting if it has a pointed end. Thinking of it like armor, in my opinion, sets you up to be more passive with it. A shield, same as a sword, is a tool for combat, after all!
The Normans are so incredibly impactful on history. I think they are under appreciated in popular media.
Looking forward to the video!
Agreed
It depends if you count vikings.
I agree they are not really linked together in pop culture.
@@Nicko69140 Well the average person thinks "vikings" were a race and culture. So I guess there's that. Calling them Normans would just confuse people. Its sad but probably the biggest reason.
The Normans are underappreciated? In Anglophone society? Are you serious?
@@tedhodge4830 no. You caught me. I made this entire post just to get under your skin
I need to show this to my training partners so I won't kill them so often anymore. ^^
But seriously, very interesting to see pre-renaissance stuff. Late medieval kit is fancy but there is some simplistic beauty in the earlier style.
14th century will always be my favorite, but 13th century is nice because you see a combination of mail and early plate armor solutions
Thank you so much for pursuing more Norman armour instead of just discarding after one video. Normans are my favorite culture
The Norman knights also had longer mail that protected the thighs, and sometimes they had mail covering the shins like shown on the Bayeux Tapestry, the Normans also used double mail to protect the chest. Excellent video, very informative.
This was well and concisely done. It would be good to see a similar detailed view/explanation of gambesons/arming jackets etc.
Man thanks for this video really saved me for the next viking invasion
God will be with u.
This is so cool!
In a way it kind of seems like later period plate armors were more of a technological development via tradeoffs: less mobility, and less convenience (need squire to put on and take off plates). But with those disadvantages you get overall better protection. But that doesn't mean plate armor is necessarily better than mail armor. Clearly the defense you get with mail and the padding underneath is way better than most tend to assume it would be.
I defenetly had better mobility with only the mail armor, but it wasn't significant and the plate armor feels much better and don't tire you out that fast, because the plates sit more on your hip and not at the shoulders. So I defenetly prefer the plate armor.
@@dequitem Ah, that makes sense.
Nice stuff as always! I parttake in early medieval combat trainings myself so its always so nice to see how other people figure out how to make it relatively safe
I absolutely love riveted mail armor. I've a darkened steel 4-in-1 hauberk that I can wear all day, is battle-ready, and (reasonably) easy to don solo. You kit looks similar and IMO even better 🙂
Wonderful video!
I love the production value of this. This feels very premium💪
Harold Godwinson’s been rather quiet after this dropped.
Who is Harold Godwinson? You mean Harald II. of England?
@@dequitem Same person, Harold Godwinson is Harold the II (of England). I just know him by the name Harold Godwinson best. Died at Hastings during the Battle of Hastings.
I used to be a king until I took an arrow to the eye
@@dequitem The King of England during the Norman invasion.
Your channel deserves way more recognition, All of your videos are amazing.
Shields are my favourite thing in knight fights 🛡
Man, it is really cool to share us different kind of eras and armors.
Could you please continue with this kind of video? Like, Byzantine, Turkish and Frankish armors from the same era? (lamellar amors for example too)
I will try my best, but I cant show the requested armors. There are no high quality medieval Turkish armor reenacters with the wish to fight me.
@@dequitem Thanks, anyway i apreciate your effort, it is very interesting. I hope your elbow is fine now.😬
oh my prayers have been answered
Beyond interesting. Thank You.
What’s your dream armor set? A combination of cultures and styles that both offer maximum protection and style? Of course, the former is more important.
Viking Berserker Style, nude with only a Bearskull on your Head .😁
Furious, screaming, Out of Control Mode , running to the Fight
Fear is half winning the battle 😉
😊 I already build my dream armor. I like the Norman helmet, but I definitely prefer the late medieval German and englisch Armor.
@@haudraufundschluss1972 one arrow kills the dream. works only against unarmed monks haha
How about attacking/protecting the legs. You are probably familiar with the battle at Visby in 1361. I seem to recall, that he mass graves of the fallen gotlanders showed many leg injuries. Some even had both lower legs cut off in one blow...
Great show by the way!
Yes and that's defenetly an issue with this armor. Sure the triangular shield helps a lot but in a battle that's an issue. I didn't noticed till now that I didn't talked about leg strikes.
"both lower legs cut off in one blow"
that's not how it happens, nobody is cutting through two legs in a single hit
@@dequitem im guessing they wore longer hauberk and greaves
@@BelieverOfChrist2 Not really. Norman knights didn't have much in terms of leg protection, but the mail would typically cover the top of the legs, sometimes up to the knee.
The teardrop shields could also be a bit longer. The one I trained with would cover my whole leg (but not both legs at the same time, however, the second one would be further away).
You can typically protect the leg OR the head with the shieldn, but not both.
@@alexandreboureau6175 the kite shield does a good job at protecting the legs maybe, but i still don't see why they would choose to not wear any leg armour at all, not like it makes you much slower
probably not universal, some probably did, others didn't
As a big fan of S.M. Stirling's Dies the Fire book series, it is fascinating to see a medieval re-creator show how Norman armor would be recreated to be used in combat...which is exactly what happens in part of the books. When Dequitem lowers the kite shield to just below his eye-line, and I got a real rush of remembrance reading those books.
The interesting thing is that the logic behind the augmentation to the mail is similar to the transitional plates added to mail over the periods, particularly grieves, upper vambraces, gorget, and gull faced or visored helmets.
Another top tier video man, I'm now prepared to join the First Crusade and liberate the Holy Land
Loving your work! Thank you for this video 🛡
The most important thing for a medieval man at arms is to do your best and have fun.
Yay, new explanation video from Dequitem!
I very much would love to see more early medieval armored fighting :)
During the Hastings campaign armour used by both sides used maille tassets of sorts to cover the groin and upper thigh better, cloth underlayer bound to the maille and a theory that there were tubular parts to protect above the knee of the leg as the leg wraps weren't that good against thrusts
Thanks for that. Very interesting explanations.
Excellent Work! 👏
I'm still waiting for the net for gladiator
You have to wait a little bit longer but it's still on my list.
Normans typically fought while mounted. I think the real victors of Hastings were the horses, not to mention Harold had defeated a Norwegian army just 2 weeks earlier.
The set looks good!
This is interesting from a movement perspective. And very cool to see. But as a true test of the armour's protection this is even more limited than the plate. Because you aren't using any sharps (or you better not be, we'd like to keep you around Dequitem!). We know from the sources that many of the thrusting swords with fine points, and the spears, and certainly the daggers _could_ penetrate mail, though of course not always, so I'm curious how you're "scoring" hits and really evaluating how the mail stands up to thrusts.
It is impressive though the ways you've modified things to be as safe as possible. Though I think you may want to see if you can limit the sag on your arms as much as possible. I have heard that even a little bit can just make arm movement more taxing than it needs to be, and fitting it as close as you can to the body relieves this.
Very good work, on a period that's relatively underrepresented.
I test different weapons against the mail armor and I will release a video to this topic soon. You will be surprised how hard it is to penetrate mail armor!
swords with sharp/narrow points mainly developed later in time
@@BelieverOfChrist2 Sure, but they existed during the period where mail predominated. Oakshott type xv's are found in art from the early 1200's, and became the standard only a little later, and regardless they were still fighting mail.
What's really being tested is a predominantly shield and mail based defense system, not what a Norman Knight might actually encounter (after all, the person Dequitem was fighting was not kitted with what a Norman knight would typically fight against.) and one of the weapons (among the others I mentioned) that you would use against that system, would be a sword with a narrow tip. Are those more predominant a bit later than this? Yes. But they were developed to compete with mail, and kept being useful against plate because they could handle the mail in any exposed areas.
@@Lurklen this video is strictly about norman armour though
what a norman knight would encounter could vary, they could encounter; axes, a lot of spears, swords, and arrows
swords with a narrow tip were not widespread in this period, we could talk about later gun development and it's effect against armor, but the topic is strictly norman knights
the swords with narrow tips also came in use due to early development of plate armour
so how did they combat maille? spears or sturdy swords that could transfer some force into the rings, multiple hits and maybe you can create an opening
but combat wasn't just focused on hitting the other dude where he is armoured the most
@@BelieverOfChrist2 Is it? "Today I am standing in full Norman Armour. Today I want to talk about how does it feel, to only fight in high medieval mail armour. And if it is possible to do this without big injuries."
Because it sounds like what he said was that it was focused on if you could reliably fight in a high medieval mail and shield kit without getting injured, and he tested that in a Norman get up accordingly.
No, combat wasn't focused on only trying to hit the most armoured parts of a body. But armour was focused on protecting the parts you were most likely to be hit, and least wanted to suffer an injury. While many weapons were designed to try to bypass that armour. The whole point of engaging in the kind of study Dequitem does, is to try to see how effective those weapons are against the various kinds of armour. One of those weapons might be a more pointed sword.
"the swords with narrow tips also came in use due to early development of plate armour" The type xv, which is a sword with a narrow point, predates the prevalence of plate, but became more popular and ubiquitous (though, relatively few surviving examples exist, it is all over the place in art from across a broad period) and while it was helpful in mitigating plate, the way it did so was by being used on the mail in the gaps. I've seen it depicted as early as the 1220's. Which would be part of the High Medieval period he's looking at. And as its use was in defeating mail, and that is what he is testing, I brought it up.
In his reply to me he said he had another video testing the mail against various weapons in the works. We'll see what he uses and finds.
12:17 thats exactly what a lot of hema practicioners dont get.
Fascinating stuff. How heavy is this (including the shield) compared to late medieval full plate? To what extent would you say the shield can be used offensively, as a battering weapon?
It's defenetly lighter but it tires you out faster than my late medieval armor.
@@dequitem Interesting. Is that mostly because of the shield, or because the weight of the hauberk is mostly on your shoulders rather than distributed better over your body?
@@magnuslauglo5356 more the hauberk!
@@dequitemI'm no expert in armor, but does tightening the belt help with hauberk's weight?
@@zsDUGGZ only slightly. The arm armor and upper body weight is still on the shoulders.
Breaking your arm and still keep on going with your passion, respect!!! 🫡
Было интересно смотреть и слушать, спасибо за видео! Очень жаль что ты повредил руку, но я рад что теперь все в порядке. Будь осторожнее в будущем.
It's five years ago.
Very educational.
If there was TH-cam in this time period:
&peasant6969: "Thank you! The neighboring village is about to invade soon, I fear. (Sadface)."
😅
I'm assuming in a mass melee the plate is better overall because it gives better protection from unseen blows/arrows etc?
Defenetly!
Very interesting indeed.
Fantastic video, I've enjoyed learning about the Normans for a long time now and their impact on history. This style of armor and weaponry has always been my personal favorite throughout the medieval period. I am curious if this style of spear is the same that they would use on horseback as a lance, and how fighting in this would look with an axe or a mace, but otherwise I feel like this is very educational.
Yes lances back then were essentially the same as spears used on foot. But all techniques with this are speculative since we have no surviving martial arts manuscripts dating back this early.
Love this mailman
I love how you're applying a lot of your experience in how one would fight in this kit but I wonder how "experienced" was the average soldier of the period. Were they just a bunch of armored hooligans or did they all fight with high levels of critical thought for every action?
It depends. There are defenetly knights in this kind of armor who mayby train more than my 6 hours the week. But also people how only learned a couple of days how to use the weapons and armor. The principles shown in this video are very simple so I think they should be known by most fighters of the past.
Mail armor, the first medieval bling. Low Protection; High Charisma. 😎👌
What about Plate-Mail Armor? Mail armor with embedded plates like the Moro Armor from the Philippines. Your thoughts? Is it good? Is it bad? Or a bit of both? 🙃
I want to see a battle with Ottoman or Persian armour next. It's lighter than European 15th century armour, so I want to know how that affects fighting, and how it affects horse archery.
There never was an ottoman or any guy with ottoman armor with the fighting skill or balls to contact me. So unfortunately I can't make a video without an opponent.
@@dequitem
Unfortunate. No Turks in Germany interested in HEMA and willing to come to Austria (you're in Austria right?)?
Breaking your arm, recover and keep on going with your passion, respect !!! 🫡
Started to wear mail unser my normal clothes just in case someone tries to knife me has been quite en voque here in west germany as of late ...
Would work well!
protect your neck though
@@BelieverOfChrist2 Well you gotta make some shortcuts. Although a full high medieval amour with crusader insignia would send a strong message ... hmmmh
@@dequitem Thats qute the You have no power here moment if it ever comes to this ... I hope it never does /s
fantastic audio dude 👍
Mail and a decent gambason and jobs a goodun 👍
Awesome stuff
Truly fascinating stuff! Your channel is such a gold mine for medieval enthusiast
Quick question: can you share a bit more about your experience with heat when fighting in mail?
For context: I own 2 set of hauberk(aluminum and stainless steel), and from wearing them as part of costumes, I always had a pretty bad experience trying to last very long in them due to the heat during summer, and had to drop any extra padding underneath (I was wearing just a linen shirt essentially, since I wasn’t doing combat). I can’t imagine how ppl deal with exhaustion and heat…
Another question: any thoughts on tailored hauberk? I notice I have more comfortable movement of my arm and elbow after switching to a tailored shirt, but again since I don’t do real combat I don’t know how much of it actually matters…
Thank you! Love to see more of this!
I tailored it a little bit and of course heat is always a problem!
It may be counterintuitive, but padding under Mail Armor didn't seem to be that common. In iconography the knights are very well tailored if not anatomical in their mail armor. No room for padding. Also: if you wanted padding underneath, the mailarmor became more expensive and more heavy.
I don't try to sell this as an absolute fact, but as a nice piece of an ongoing debate. I formyself think it is true that they did wear something very loght under the Mail, but not a Gambeson. If there is a source that says otherwise, I am very happy to look into it😊
I’ve been very curious about how hot it is wearing a mail shirt, especially when you’re wearing padded clothing underneath. On one hand, it’s a pretty heavy coat of metal rings so you naturally heat up when carrying it on your body. On the other hand, the openings between the links seem like they’d facilitate some air flow. Wonder if that’s part of the reason why the Ottomans used mail armor well into the 16th and 17th centuries.
If there is wind it's okay.
Wait I’m not supposed to kill my sparring opponents?!
Ahh shit!
They will not like it.
At the end of the day, this isn't that different from a town militia in the late Medieval period. The tech power creep was real.
This mail looks so nice! Can the fencing mask take strikes from maces etc? A SCA visor (american football style-like those used in buhurt) would protect the face from any blunt weapon.
Also, I suggest that you increase the available length of the guige strap by attaching it as low as possible to the shield board. If both attachment points are 1-2 inches over the center of mass/point of balance you'd be good to go and a guige long enough to extend the almost the whole arm forwards or upwards to intercept an attack midway or completely cover the head.
Your guige seems to be too short to extend your left hand far enough to fully cover the head and a downward strike with the flail would hit the head or left shoulder 99% of the time.
Flails are not a big weapon in this time period. The strab hasn't to be so long. I think the most dangerous weapon in this circumstances is a daneaxe, if you can raise the shield high enough to protect your shoulders from the axe blade, you are fine.
The fencing mask will unfortunately not handle maces, even sword strikes will leave bruises on your face, but it is better than nothing!
That polaxe hit to the ribs looked really... _unpleasant_
What do you mean you broke your elbow to the point bone showed
Did you make the mask yourself? Always great to see smart solutions to the issue of open face helmets. Cheers for another great video
Yes it's made by myself.
Hallo,
What I don't quite understand is that you did say that the force is distributed when a war hammer or similar handweapon hits your armour, but if it happens to your head several times in a row with full force you will most likely, if not get a hole in your head, then you will definitely feel strong concussions that will make you dizzy or even incapable of fighting. It can't be any other way for physical reasons, can it? A hit to the breastplate is different, but the control center head-helmet, with let's say a 3kg hammer times momentum x mass x weight = 50kg hitting a small point on your head, that has to have an effect. Even if there is no hole in the helmet, metal hits Skull bone and subsequently the brain. There are good animations of boxers showing what happens to the contents of the skull when it is shaken from outside, how the brain swings around and you suffer at least a concussion or even become unconscious, knocked out. I'm a layman but that's what my level of knowledge tells me or am I wrong? And why?
Thanks, Danke 😉
Warhammer is only 1,3 kg max! But even than yes a strike to the helmet can be a problem for the brain, but much less than in boxing were there is no Helm that can take away much of the force and direct the hit in other directions!
doing it right!
That hammer strike to the back at 1:00 looked brutal, even through mail/gambeson. Is that hammer metal or is it a foam/rubber training weapon?
It would be awesome to see norman knights duel, not like this time, and also it would be incredible to see a shieldwall battle of norman knights
Only small fights at the moment.
@@dequitem Sad, but still it would be interesting to see fight with both fighters fighting in Norman knight equipment
Спасибо. 😊
Man, who doesn't love shields
Right? Righhhttttt?
@@dequitem 🤣
Do you know how warriors with Dane axes fought? Would they hide behind their shieldbrothers, simply ditch the shield but wear the same armour as the Norman knight, or would they be even heavier armoured to compensate for the lack of a shield?
I can only guess from my experience!
@@dequitem I'd be happy to hear it!
What sort of hard protection do you use, and how tough is it? I started wondering if Normans of the time would have had anything that would have been able to do that as well, since you note it as significant and giving some critical protection for bones in certain areas.
I have some very well made "Kohlefaser-aramit" protectors (expensive but light and very strong) I will show them in a video soon.
In the high medival times they used whale bone for hart shell protection. The first gauntlets were made from whale bone.
that’s actually a very short hauberk
Yes, but there were also short ones. I am a tall person 😅
Oy oy... i took strike from sword in chin when im use my Nasal helmet with mailecoif of 6mm riveted rings and lose one teeth so you know depend on situation.
But u survived. So the helmet worked kind of 😂😂😂
bravo!
Oh boy, just recording for this video seem to have tired you out something crazy!
Certainly does seems more tiring, considering the weight isn't distributed as well as in plate.
What kind of maintenance did you need to do on your mail hauberk?
I always had the goofy idea of wearing a mail shirt under normal clothing, but considering that it probably needs to be oiled in order not to rust kind of put me off.
I recorded this video 3 times because of problems with the camera equipment. Thats the 3 recording. Now you know what tired me out.
@@dequitem Well then, compliments to your stamina then!
As true as it may be that armor isn't that heavy, moving around in it while wielding relatively heavy things violently is certainly a whole different thing.
Minor correction Sir, your shield is not Norman but a shield of Eleventh Century. Bye middle of the Eleventh Century armour was going through modification. So one can not strictly call it Norman. Look at The Bayou Tapestry, there you will find a true representation of true Norman Armour. Not in transition.
In the 12th century the kite shield becomes flat and the nasal helmet gets a hook in front to attach the mail. Both is represented on my small recreation, but of course, there are some failures!
Awesome stuff but shouldn't the hauberk be down to the knees if it's emulating 11th century Norman armor?
Because of the shield size and dimentions this is more 12th century. But there are also the longer hauberks you describe.
Can you showcase the mask that you're using under the helmet in a separate video?
This is an interesting part =)
That's something for my Patreon. Or channel membership, there I can show a short video if you request it there.
GRACIAS
Nice.
Am I right i thinking you would get destroyed by someone in full plate? I understand Normans say in 1066 predates plate armor in Europe, so its not something a Norman would have to worry about when wearing chain mail.
Yes plate armor is much more powerful!
i wonder, would you be able to perform throws? (like in judo, for example, an o-goshi)
i've seen you do some cool osoto gari
sorry to hear about your arm by the way
Yes I can, but it's harder against someone in armor.
Is there a tutorial for fighting in sober medieval mail armor?
When you threw your spear (at 11:19) you missed the perfect opportunity to shout "oops, sorry" - C+, must try harder!
Other than that👍
Manifique!
❤
I'm sorry if someone has already asked it, but may I know from where you have purchased this beautiful long spear head?
I bought it already used from a friend 😬
Coolo ❤
How much does your mail shirt weigh? 12:44
Never weight it. But in the scene, my opponent stabbed me in my throat onto the fencing mask.
I wanna see high medeivel vs high medeivel like when the normans fought the saxons on the Beyer tapestry(idk how to spell that)
Hard to make, there are not many people who wanna fight in this armor with thrusts and stabs!
@@dequitem I imagine it's more protective than the fencing gear that we use for regular hema, tell them to stop acting like little girls and fight u LMFAO XD
Am I dreaming or was there an upcoming katana vs knight vid
Still recording more footage this weekend... Video producing needs time and effort.
@@dequitemI bet it’s going to be a great video then!
Before watching the video: I suspect a lot of things will be similar to Roman soldiers.
Defenetly!
And now for the conclusion: mostly like that, yeah!
The main difference I see is that the Roman shield is center-gripped, while the kite-shield is strapped, although I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes.
We also don't know how much the Romans used their pilum as a regular spear, instead of just throwing it - but if they did, they probably used it like the Normans used their spears.
Would it be practical for the shortspear you use to hit someone 10 feet away?
Throw it 😅
Without throwing, what would you estimate its effective range to be?
@@stillhere4165 1,5 to 2,5 meters.
👍
Does your elbow hurt while fighting?
Only when there will be a storm tomorrow. I can feel the changing of weather sometimes but normaly it didn't hurt. It's now 5 years old.
Normie armor
will you ever try roman armour?
Yes mayby in the future. But my next step is defenetly a samurai armor.
So you don't recommend wearing much padding under the mail?
Ooo I absolutely recommend to wear some extra padding and hart shell protection, but I didn't do it myself in all parts of my body. It depends on how much bruises you wanna have on your body 😅
Did the shield got a boss?Or am I missin something?
Not in the 12th century.
👽😎👏👏👏👍👍👍
🗿👍
how long does it take to forge full set of armor?
Months and possibly years depending on what centruary of armour you're talking about
No horse? What a peasant. Lol.
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