Some additions that I didn't mention because I considered them to obvious, realizing in hindsight that some people may still not know: Deathbringer/Malice, %pen such as Executioner, Titan's Bane, Obsidian Shard
Personally, I don't agree with not rushing Fatalis on Freya. More attack speed increases her ability to clear in lane and allows her to throw out more autos that already have a high base damage.
He wasn't saying not to rush it. He just meant dont buy it first item before having boots or anything else. Attack speed and pen mean nothing when you have almost no power.
John Johnson lately I've been dropping demonic for shard and just having telkhines, although now that shamans has hit the x1 I might try a 3 ring build
haha...there will always be pointless items, I assume. I'm just interested in how other folks are throwing stacking items and high-priced items into early slots in their builds and what Duke thinks about those choices in terms of value. Like, say, Transcendence and Devourer's Gauntlet...
you always get stacks in early because it takes awhile to get the max effectiveness out of the item if you buy transcendence you need to clear about 8 waves to get it fully stacked while an item like fatalis would get all the benefit as soon as you purchase it or titan's bane, or any other number of items
I understand the REASON folks purchase stacking items early, though some require longer to come online, potentially, than others (say...warlock's sash at 100 stacks vs. Hide of the Urchin -- 10 god kills or assists). Stacking items always represent a value proposition -- how will I fair against my lane match? How much push can I get or pressure can I apply? Do I need to worry about the jungler since I've never played with my current jungler or mid-laner? There are always a ton of questions to answer in a given match, yet every season people continue to buy certain stacking items VERY EARLY (like Transcendence or DG) on the notion that getting them as early as possible will result in an early power spike. MAYBE... but if you have bad early clear or find yourself in a bad match up, you might suffer more to get that item fully online than you would if you otherwise bought a DIFFERENT item early and then waited on the stacking item once you had enough power online to have better wave clear and to be on more even ground with your lane opponent/s. Every game presents you with multiple value propositions, but things like buying Transcendence and DG early often seem to represent community 'lore' because it relies solely on the experience of OTHER gamers perhaps playing under more ideal conditions than you are. Theory crafting in a MOBA isn't really similar to something like PvE theory crafting in a game like, say, WoW. There are too many dynamic variables at play in terms of player skill and build efficiency. I'm just interested to know what Duke's thoughts are IN GENERAL about what items might be worth considering very early and what his defense of those assertions might be.
Chronos is good in assault if you want to care less about mana management or have very easy to confirm spammable abilities (like AP), but I've found that pen boots + a starter (ss last season, sands this season) plus a few pots generally works better UNLESS no one builds heartward and you need beads for ares/fen/etc, there's nothing worse than being stuck defending a tower with no mana
I always get asi first in assault the better sustain is much better than the power imo and I used to almost always go chronos I don't anymore I think it is now way too expensive for what you get
Danilego Chronos is not a great starter in Assault. Mana and Cooldowns with no substance. It's more like a 5th item if you want to buy it at all really..
Hey Duke, thx for the info. One question: What's your opinion on building Spear of Deso after boots on jungle Morrigan, since you can really stack with her?
I see your point,but for some gods I build I need the cool down.Some gods do little damage when their basic attack and need their spells to be most effective.
My final build is usually warrior tabi, jotunn's, heartseeker, the crusher, exe, and a conditional. I also try to get bracer of undoing so I can double featherstep with the crusher passive. It works really well.
Duke was playing as support Awilix during that game while Vulcan was ADC, Athena was jungle, and Neith mid with Medusa solo... If you want to play Awilix as jungler, I recommend building as Lololol has said but starting off with Bumba's and BP/DT before building into Warrior Tabi.
She does better with damage/pen early to mid game, but if you want to be more relevant late game a tank/AA build is much better (so ninja, urchin, frost, spirit robe, exec or qins, exec or qins or more defense).
Can you do a video on Hel's change? I've used her recently and she feels like she has more potential but is more difficult to use with the change on her light stance heal. And now that her one explodes and can hit multiple targets it seems like her overall damage went up.
Hey Duke, do you recommend pythags as a support item now with its recent changes? ive been picking it up if my adc decided to build transcendence instead of devos and it seems to be working out pretty well
TheTrueTomato i thought with the changes to it, it would almost exclusively be a support build item. 40 magical power is nothing, and i surely dont want my mid lane mage wasting an item slot on it. Seems way more efficient on a support
Nah. Athena was jungle and Neith mid with Medusa solo. At the start of the video you could tell. You also wouldn't pick up war flag and travelers boots if you were jungling with Awilix.
It would be great if Hirez gives us the option to view items without going into the god builders in the main menu. I would love to get a list and then sort items according to price and popularity.
What exactly should I be focusing to build with damage dealers (mages, hunters, assassins)? Would it be better to focus on damage, penetration (if so would I use flat or percentage?), cooldown reduction, or attack speed? Then there are guardians when I am confused on when to build defense or counter items. Finally there are warriors who have the choices of damage, defense, or counter items. I am relatively inexperienced so whenever I choose a god I build either damage or defense only with few occasions of building penetration or cooldown.
sands of time, pen boots, chronos pendant, poly, o shard, rod, soul reaver on morrigan is amazing though. I play ranked joust and building chronos early allows for more ults and some ridiculous stealth outplay
Question, is double ichaival (physical/magical) viable on hunters or no? i saw this on some hunters but haven't tryed it yet other than vs bots. it does double stack no matter what but is it viable ?
on morrigan in jungle i go bumba's mask, hourglass, pen boots, obsidian shard and then chronos pendant. is that viable? or should i change it to pythagorems piece?
Is there any good replacement for hastened fatalis, cause i really miss the passive, when im playing hunters at the moment, although i play mostly arena.
I like gladiators after boots in solo lane should I just build normally after I get it? sell it later? idk I just love it for boxing but don't know what to build after.
Hey dukesloth thnx for the info you provide in these vids, they really help me and my team but I have a question.I see carries building early game items such as ichival are there items like thus for supports? should I sell my auras later on?
Got my first Penta in Arena the other day, done as Izanami. Opponents were Amaterasu, Neith, Hel, Artemis, and another Izzy. Build in order- Ninja Tabi- 20 Physical Power, 100 Mana, 20% Attack Speed, 18% Movement Speed Ichaival- 30% Attack Speed, 10 Physical Penetration, (Basics raise Physical Power by 10 and reduce enemy's by 10 for 3 seconds up to 3 stacks) Poisoned Star- 30 Physical Power, 15% Attack Speed, 15% Critical Strike Chance, (Crits lower enemy movement speed and damage by 20% for 2 seconds) Wind Demon- 30 Physical Power, 10% Attack Speed, 20% Critical Strike Chance, (Crits raise Attack and Movement Speed by 20% for 5 seconds) Bloodforge- 75 Physical Power, 15% Lifesteal, (Killing an enemy creates a shield with 200 health+10 per player level for 20 seconds and while active increases Movement Speed by 10%) The Executioner- 30 Physical Power, 25% Attack Speed, (Basic Attacks reduce enemy physical protection by 12% for 3 seconds up to 3 stacks) Got it late game(was the only level 20 in the match at the time, had a 2-3 level lead against all opponents), Amy was not part of the Penta, ended up killing Artemis twice during it. The Executioner wasn't purchased as a necessity, just to have a full build. Basically got the Penta due to Bloodforge shields. Just rained basics on a group of three(Artemis, Neith, Izzy), then two more came out of spawn(Hel, Artemis) and I finished up by killing Artemis under tower. Ended up going 23/5/16. Don't know why I'm posting that here, but I felt like sharing. :P
hey duke what do u think about stone of binding and gladiators shield ? i see no one picking it up and no one talks about it which is sad i love the items
Ok I run into this situation a decent amount of the time, say you start tier 1 devo gloves. Then you get a kill or two and when you back you have enough gold to get bloodforge or gloves. Is it worth buying bloodforge or getting gloves and tier 1 or 2 of a second item?
The only time i'll ever build bloodforge early is in Assault on some hunters. In Assault you need sustain and lifesteal is a good way to keep your hp healthy especially when there are no healers and little hp5 regen. The options for building lifesteal would be bloodforge or asi or soul eater. while asi may be decent and soul eater can give you a lot of regen they'll both end up with your auto attacks doing almost nothing. So often i'll take bloodforge so my auto attacks will be viable early and i'll have some regeneration. or i'll get crafty and do some odd build by only getting like tier 2/1 of bloodforge for regen and getting something like boots.
Brendan Walker armor = damage reduction. By penetrating a flat/% amount of it, you easentially gain more damage against that target bc its less reduction for them
Thank you, but I understand that part. I've played smite for about 6 months. I just don't understand how flat penetration is actually calculating. For example, does 10 pen reduce 10 armor? Or is it calculated differently?
The one item I would argue about is bloodforge. In almost all cases, you are right it is really not worth it for the early game. As 1st item in assault when playing a hunter, it allows you to have a tone of early game damage on autos as well as abilities and it allows you to stay alive a lot longer which means that you will have an easier time getting ahead. Although, if the enemy team has more than 1 tank it is usually a better idea to get some flat pen off the start. PS The chronos pendant drives me nuts in assault. Mages almost always get it as a 1st item and then fall behind because they are doing hardly any damage with their abilities.
Gem of Iso, I agree is most well-known on Poseidon, but don`t forget Ah-Puch on whom this is also a great early item. I am curious what your thoughts are on rushed Mantle of Discord on guardians, especially Khepri. I usually build it as second item since I don`t want to waste buying and later selling Breastplate of Valor and it also gives magical defense, however it takes a long time before it comes on-line.
I tend to buy early Breastplate for really aggressive supports, who just focus on bullying the enemy duo back to their tower and helping clear the minions at the cost of protecting its adc. Xing Tian for a good example, also works with aggressive Warrior supports like Sun Wukong. Breastplate means more early Sun Wukong Cudgels, which means more lane pressure and more damage on the enemy adc. And give an ideal scenario you might even towerdive with the ultimate and Breastplate ready.
For the most part I agree with this, but I think that you should make one more exception. The sands- CDR boots- chronos pendant chang'e mid works because she never backs to base. She can get far enough ahead early with a decent jungle rotation that building void stone next (as it is really cheap for the t2 that does give a lesser aura) and then the bunny can bring the better version when she gets that farm is really strong.
Bloodforge on Assault is fine? At least for hunters. I would normally always go with Bloodforge or OB as first item as a hunter because of the attack speed or extra damage/sustain. Bloodforge can help me get an early lead and get fed off of that.
It is fine on Assault as you are always teamfighting. Getting that shield mid-fight is useful, but a majority of teamfights in Conquest take place later in the game, hence why it is a late-game item in Conquest.
Dude, early bloodforge on assault is great. You know how many times I have tower dove at level 6 or 7 (only as an assassin or hunter) to get a kill, get that bloodforge shield, and get away without taking any damage? A lot of times. Gets you that early damage and those early kills, putting you ahead and making the rest of the game easier. On any other game mode, it's trash early.
Hastened Fatalis is a great early pick for Medusa after Ninja Tabi. Along with her passive she becomes almost impossible to hit or get away from. Usually build Deathbringer and Poison Star on top of that followed by something for pen depending on the circumstance. Finishing it off with an item like Desolation or Qin's Sais isn't a bad idea.
I rush hastened on Bakasura in a lot of game modes. Sometimes I honestly wont even build boots on Baka, just Hastened into a stone cutting sword cuz you have enough movement speed, and you have 30 protection reduction, 10 flat pen, and you're free to build into a poisoned star next item and hit crazy hard with a mid game Bakasura :)
travelkingable stacking is fine... who told you it wasn't? Thoth and warlocks are fairly popular for mages and dev gloves can occasionally be seen on some hunters. Besides that though, doom orb and trans have fallen heavily out of the meta and no other roles should be stacking.
All stacks are good(but u have to build it after boots),except Urchin u shoudnt buy urchin unless u are fucking the enemy team very hard but in that case the game should be f6 at 10
Fatalis first item on freya is/was justifiable because the attack speed DOES allow her to clear much earlier than boots do. She's relying 100% on her 2 to clear, so getting a few extra uses out of it makes a massive difference at level 1
I agree with everything ; if you wanna built a sustain item earlier the better choose over Bloodforge would be Asi as it gives you pen,lifesteal and attack speed and the gold spent on Bloodforge could then be used on a second item aka boots
Disagree with the chronos pendant, especially on gods like he bo. If you time it right, he has a .8 second cooldown on his 1. Also, for gods who have some issues with safety yet have some sustain/iffy escape, like isis, change, ra and such, it can keep you out of danger, you don't have to worry about mana for the most part, and you can still clear decently well, as well as poke without worrying that your clear won't be up for next wave.
BoV is great for agressive supps in arena, like Ymir or Hades, even as a sceond item. It just requires you to be extra careful at first and pick your initiations carefully.
I usually buy Rod Of Tahuti as the fifth or last item in my Build. It increases Magical power by percentage and if you dont have a lot of power to begin with it dosen't have much of an impact.
Gotta disagree about not buying BoV in other game modes immediately after boots. In Arena, doing so as Ares (With Shoes of Focus + Blue Buff for full CDR) allows him to spam his ult a ton and force beads/ults from the enemy defensively. Even if it's Arena, that's why he's considered top tier in that mode. Also, like you mentioned, you can build MotV, Blue Boots, then BoV in Joust for example because most of the time, mages won't have enough power for one shot potential (On Guardians) after they buy their first item after boots. Not saying you're wrong, it's just I don't think you're taking the gold gain per second into account when factoring builds (3 Gold/Sec in Conquest vs 8 Gold/Sec in Arena, Joust, Duel).
My Geb build was Watchers, Breastplate, stone of Gia, then variable defenses, and it worked pretty well for me, I don't know if I'd feel like a later Breastplate would be a good idea.
Also, I'd like your opinion on this, Stone of Gia, or Mail of Renewal? Could make a compelling video, but a simple reply with a reason why would be appreciated.
If your geb build works for you it's fine, but if you are support, maybe you should build into something that benefits the rest of the team as well? Soveregnity gives health and has an aura with physical protection, which your team will benefit more from early. It might be an exception in game modes like arena, where you are constantly facing off against 5 people. Also, Stone of Gaia or Mail of Renewal would depend on composition of the teams and how the game is played. Do they have a lot of knock ups? Get Stone of Gaia. Mail of Renewal has always been a sort of gamble item, because it needs you to get kills or assists for it to be worth it. If enemies dies consistantly in your game, it could work nicely.
I respectfully disagree on BoV in arena. If you are support in arena, you shouldnt be soaking pointless damage. When you buy it second, you will be aiming to make the most out of your cc abilities to peel for teammates or setup combos. There is no use in being impossible to kill if you cant save your teammate in time because an ability was cooling down. The skillcap in arena is knowing how to successfully zone enemies and knowing just how close you can step to someone to bait out an attack and dodge it, rather than eat it. You generally want to follow BoV with something like Heartward Amulet anyway, so the lack of magical defense is pretty moot after a few short minutes. That's only for arena though, where the gold curve and item curve is much faster.
This is the one place I agree with a "greedy" build. I often inverse my support build in arena. Instead of the aura items, I go BoV and BoH first, IF my team is being smart and not getting pounded. That way I can use my CDR and better personal protections to zone, initiate, chase, etc. Late game arena is when the big team fights at the gates are happening and your auras have more effect. If we're getting hurt early, I suck it up and go traditional build to try to mitigate the damage.
in arena, Hastened and bloodforge together work pretty ell for many hunters as 2nd and 3rd items after boots though, especially if we're talking about ability powered hunters ith good power scaling, like Hou Yi for eaxmple, or even Cupid, though I'd rather build all my hunters for crit, I do see that pair often on opponents, and it's oddly effective, even I build bloodforge as 3rd item on hunters in arena
On gods, ignore their weaknesses, capatilize on there strengths with a little mix of what u need. then boom, you unlock the God's full potential! what to build at start? a starter item for sure, then movement speed. the next item depends on situation. Aim for dps (damage per second) on hunters, so high damge with 1 or 2 attack speed items, DONT FORGET TO HAVE SOME CRIT CHANCE. Assassins you want high damage "Usually". if u have someone like nemesis whos abilities dont do much u aim for high dps for your basic attacks like hunters. Gaurdians u want to make them tough which means protections. look at your enemies and see what type of damage they all deal and then build the protection against them. dont worry about putting on damage items for gaurds, they dont need it 😈. Mages u want high damage all the way unless u have someone like sol or Freya, grab at least 1 or 2 attack speed items for them and then build other items that say they give bonus damage like the one that deals an extra 10%max health as bonus damage. Warriors are like gaurdians except they deal physical damage. same rule applies for them as gaurdians too, a little attack speed can help them become more deadly, other than that, hit a few protections, 1 item that gives hp5 and mp5 , then the rest is up to you. learn the gods by going into the god section from the main menu. click on one of the gods on go down to abilities. read about them and see how much power they take from the items you build. if everything but the ultimate takes below around 50% of your items power, go for your basic attacks or items that grant bonus damage. gaurds no unless your in a situation where youre like "okay i can use some extra damage". oh and 1 last thing, learn to fight with your team! respond asap when teamates need you to fo something. actually i have another thing to say. dont be that guy fighting 1v5 and screaming at your team to help. you dont know whos not good yet on your team and if u are the only warrior or gaurdian, the enemy team will run past u and kill them because mages, hunters, and assassins become the bigger threat bevause the once big threat gaurd or warrior is now distracted, (which to the enemy team feels like you are afk). rambling ( i see people do this and get my whole teamed killed and everyone is yelling at me. enemy team took no damage during their suicidal attempt. based off of that its easy to tell that even if i helped we could of got 1 or 2 kills, "COULD" Meaning it could also be 0. we still would have all got wiped out in the end. once my two or 3 abilities are down and yall doin 0 damage, tf else is there to do except sit there n get our asses handed to use. i was he bo with no ult. its stupid for hebo to get "IN THE MIDDLE" not on the side of the battle IN THE FKING MIDDLE and try to attack with NO ULT and your teamates are dying. i mean any person with a brain, is good at this game, and pictures whats gonna happen in this situation can see how it will not turn out well for that hebo. talkin bout if i helped theyd of not died. btch i helped from the sides, yes i ran away with full health after i seen you all about to die hebos health dont matter he can get 1 shotted by EVERYTHING!
Fatalis always comes before boots on Freya. Especially last season. Without that extra attack speed she could only get 4 shots off if you remember old soul stone, not being able to get that ranged 4th basic is so bad it slows down her clear. Besides Freya can't do anything without Fatalis to begin with. I even tested it, Fatalis before boots yielded better results. The attack speed helps her clear far more than the power from boots.
Duke, I have a tendency to rush bloodforge all the time. I have a very specific build that I use when rushing this item and most of the modes that I play. And because of my place though I can typically make it work.
Bloodforge is really nice on Bell right off bat.... my build get normally around 10-15 time on avage and only dies about 1 or 2 times depending on hold ball-z i get
![Understand COUNTERING: Counter Items / Building [SMITE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UTrTkL9HU8U/mqdefault.jpg)
I solemny swear to never rush BoV on supports again
I solemny swear to never rush BoV on supports again!
Can Fafnir be that exception??
build whatever you want or what you like my opinion an dif you a good player you'll be fine
I like it on herc.
Blaze2050 i know im late, but same. As like third or second item, i always buy frosthammer first lol
Some additions that I didn't mention because I considered them to obvious, realizing in hindsight that some people may still not know: Deathbringer/Malice, %pen such as Executioner, Titan's Bane, Obsidian Shard
DukeSloth *poly
People build that shit early?
elad abudi unfortunately sometimes yes :(
Building crit early on Loki is very useful. It makes both your teammates and enemies hate your guts.
Personally, I don't agree with not rushing Fatalis on Freya. More attack speed increases her ability to clear in lane and allows her to throw out more autos that already have a high base damage.
Hey Thats Kat i dont agree with most stuff here
Freya is pretty much the only God I would rush it on, bet even then it is better as the third item rather than the second after boots.
He wasn't saying not to rush it. He just meant dont buy it first item before having boots or anything else. Attack speed and pen mean nothing when you have almost no power.
Attack speed and pen both amplify freya's innate base damage on basic attacks, so...
John Johnson lately I've been dropping demonic for shard and just having telkhines, although now that shamans has hit the x1 I might try a 3 ring build
Please, make a video that list all the items that all roles should pick up early game
Fan XD Square Enix I want to see this too
YEAH I AGREE COULD U DO A VID FOR EACH ROLE, PLEASE AND HOW MANY STARTER ITEMS CAN ONE REALY START WITH...?
flat penetration, percentage penetration, penetration penetration, other types of penetration. What i learnt from this video was fucking penetration
As much as I'd like to do that, I feel like that would take MUCH longer than a single video, there are way too many items.
DukeSloth you don't have to list them all, focus on giving us what type of items
Me: build protections you're getting shredded
Pleb Friend: ok *just buys breastplate of valor and nothing else*
Duke:
Do a video on which items it DOES make sense to build early for various roles, please?
Christopher Harris can we just have a video on the most pointless items 😂
haha...there will always be pointless items, I assume.
I'm just interested in how other folks are throwing stacking items and high-priced items into early slots in their builds and what Duke thinks about those choices in terms of value.
Like, say, Transcendence and Devourer's Gauntlet...
you always get stacks in early because it takes awhile to get the max effectiveness out of the item if you buy transcendence you need to clear about 8 waves to get it fully stacked while an item like fatalis would get all the benefit as soon as you purchase it or titan's bane, or any other number of items
I understand the REASON folks purchase stacking items early, though some require longer to come online, potentially, than others (say...warlock's sash at 100 stacks vs. Hide of the Urchin -- 10 god kills or assists).
Stacking items always represent a value proposition -- how will I fair against my lane match? How much push can I get or pressure can I apply? Do I need to worry about the jungler since I've never played with my current jungler or mid-laner?
There are always a ton of questions to answer in a given match, yet every season people continue to buy certain stacking items VERY EARLY (like Transcendence or DG) on the notion that getting them as early as possible will result in an early power spike.
MAYBE...
but if you have bad early clear or find yourself in a bad match up, you might suffer more to get that item fully online than you would if you otherwise bought a DIFFERENT item early and then waited on the stacking item once you had enough power online to have better wave clear and to be on more even ground with your lane opponent/s.
Every game presents you with multiple value propositions, but things like buying Transcendence and DG early often seem to represent community 'lore' because it relies solely on the experience of OTHER gamers perhaps playing under more ideal conditions than you are.
Theory crafting in a MOBA isn't really similar to something like PvE theory crafting in a game like, say, WoW. There are too many dynamic variables at play in terms of player skill and build efficiency.
I'm just interested to know what Duke's thoughts are IN GENERAL about what items might be worth considering very early and what his defense of those assertions might be.
Rod. Of. Tahuti.
is that dellado smite i hear
Milo 4 Pres *Rod of da booty ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).
yup
Rod of assclapcius though
When my stubborn clan mates go "That's just his opinion" They're also the people to say "Why am I doing no damage" with ninja tabi and fatalis
Dude i dont know what to tell you.. look for new clan mates they must be garbage
Trevor Buescher unless your using Baka
Still in assault bloodforge is always the first item for almost every hunter and Chronos Pendant for almost every mage
Chronos is good in assault if you want to care less about mana management or have very easy to confirm spammable abilities (like AP), but I've found that pen boots + a starter (ss last season, sands this season) plus a few pots generally works better UNLESS no one builds heartward and you need beads for ares/fen/etc, there's nothing worse than being stuck defending a tower with no mana
No power. People like that 75 power on Bloodforge over that 15 pen and 20% attack speed that Asi gives.
no1 cares about assault
I always get asi first in assault the better sustain is much better than the power imo and I used to almost always go chronos I don't anymore I think it is now way too expensive for what you get
Danilego Chronos is not a great starter in Assault. Mana and Cooldowns with no substance. It's more like a 5th item if you want to buy it at all really..
*proceedes to make a Boots into Book of the Dead build*
Duke can you do a video about good early items? Thanks
Hey Duke, thx for the info. One question: What's your opinion on building Spear of Deso after boots on jungle Morrigan, since you can really stack with her?
And the new outro is really nice by the way :D
I see your point,but for some gods I build I need the cool down.Some gods do little damage when their basic attack and need their spells to be most effective.
Duke, have you got an idea of how you want to build awilx in S4?
My final build is usually warrior tabi, jotunn's, heartseeker, the crusher, exe, and a conditional. I also try to get bracer of undoing so I can double featherstep with the crusher passive. It works really well.
Mikail Khan Id go warrior tabi, hydras, jotunns,heartseeker, crusher, titans bane. I wouldt go exe because shes more ability based
I usually go exe cause the atk speed is nice when you need to get 2 autos off as fast as possible.
Duke was playing as support Awilix during that game while Vulcan was ADC, Athena was jungle, and Neith mid with Medusa solo... If you want to play Awilix as jungler, I recommend building as Lololol has said but starting off with Bumba's and BP/DT before building into Warrior Tabi.
She does better with damage/pen early to mid game, but if you want to be more relevant late game a tank/AA build is much better (so ninja, urchin, frost, spirit robe, exec or qins, exec or qins or more defense).
Can you do a video on Hel's change? I've used her recently and she feels like she has more potential but is more difficult to use with the change on her light stance heal. And now that her one explodes and can hit multiple targets it seems like her overall damage went up.
Hey Duke, do you recommend pythags as a support item now with its recent changes? ive been picking it up if my adc decided to build transcendence instead of devos and it seems to be working out pretty well
TheTrueTomato i thought with the changes to it, it would almost exclusively be a support build item. 40 magical power is nothing, and i surely dont want my mid lane mage wasting an item slot on it. Seems way more efficient on a support
awilix Support? is the world coming to and end :p
I would also saw Nemenion Lion shouldn't get picked up too early. even if vs multiple hunters
A.J. Ferolie Actually the support was in mid lane he was probably jungle with mage
Nah. Athena was jungle and Neith mid with Medusa solo. At the start of the video you could tell. You also wouldn't pick up war flag and travelers boots if you were jungling with Awilix.
gogosox82 k
eh, i've done Neith Support and Sylvannus Carry.
It would be great if Hirez gives us the option to view items without going into the god builders in the main menu. I would love to get a list and then sort items according to price and popularity.
What exactly should I be focusing to build with damage dealers (mages, hunters, assassins)? Would it be better to focus on damage, penetration (if so would I use flat or percentage?), cooldown reduction, or attack speed? Then there are guardians when I am confused on when to build defense or counter items. Finally there are warriors who have the choices of damage, defense, or counter items.
I am relatively inexperienced so whenever I choose a god I build either damage or defense only with few occasions of building penetration or cooldown.
What are your thoughts about building Transcendence? Does it makes sense to build it first or second?
sands of time, pen boots, chronos pendant, poly, o shard, rod, soul reaver on morrigan is amazing though. I play ranked joust and building chronos early allows for more ults and some ridiculous stealth outplay
Question, as Nu Wa what would you suggest I get after boots and Dynasty Plate if I get that?
Question, is double ichaival (physical/magical) viable on hunters or no?
i saw this on some hunters but haven't tryed it yet other than vs bots. it does double stack no matter what but is it viable ?
What would you recommend instead of Bloodforge early then? Asi?
Hmm... how do you walk? I mean what keys do you use because it looks like you use your A W B for abilities. Please respond
Duke sloth I have a question is stone cutting ok earlier like 1st or 2nd item or should I put it more twords 3rd or 4th
So what are you suppsoed to buy before Chronos pendent?
on morrigan in jungle i go bumba's mask, hourglass, pen boots, obsidian shard and then chronos pendant. is that viable? or should i change it to pythagorems piece?
Is there any good replacement for hastened fatalis, cause i really miss the passive, when im playing hunters at the moment, although i play mostly arena.
On neith, is wind demon best after boots? Or should i get another item first?
So for fatulis would putting it after boots be fine or should I put an item after boots then fatulis
I like gladiators after boots in solo lane should I just build normally after I get it? sell it later? idk I just love it for boxing but don't know what to build after.
Hey dukesloth thnx for the info you provide in these vids, they really help me and my team but I have a question.I see carries building early game items such as ichival are there items like thus for supports? should I sell my auras later on?
Got my first Penta in Arena the other day, done as Izanami. Opponents were Amaterasu, Neith, Hel, Artemis, and another Izzy. Build in order-
Ninja Tabi- 20 Physical Power, 100 Mana, 20% Attack Speed, 18% Movement Speed
Ichaival- 30% Attack Speed, 10 Physical Penetration, (Basics raise Physical Power by 10 and reduce enemy's by 10 for 3 seconds up to 3 stacks)
Poisoned Star- 30 Physical Power, 15% Attack Speed, 15% Critical Strike Chance, (Crits lower enemy movement speed and damage by 20% for 2 seconds)
Wind Demon- 30 Physical Power, 10% Attack Speed, 20% Critical Strike Chance, (Crits raise Attack and Movement Speed by 20% for 5 seconds)
Bloodforge- 75 Physical Power, 15% Lifesteal, (Killing an enemy creates a shield with 200 health+10 per player level for 20 seconds and while active increases Movement Speed by 10%)
The Executioner- 30 Physical Power, 25% Attack Speed, (Basic Attacks reduce enemy physical protection by 12% for 3 seconds up to 3 stacks)
Got it late game(was the only level 20 in the match at the time, had a 2-3 level lead against all opponents), Amy was not part of the Penta, ended up killing Artemis twice during it. The Executioner wasn't purchased as a necessity, just to have a full build. Basically got the Penta due to Bloodforge shields. Just rained basics on a group of three(Artemis, Neith, Izzy), then two more came out of spawn(Hel, Artemis) and I finished up by killing Artemis under tower.
Ended up going 23/5/16.
Don't know why I'm posting that here, but I felt like sharing. :P
hey duke what do u think about stone of binding and gladiators shield ? i see no one picking it up and no one talks about it which is sad i love the items
Ok I run into this situation a decent amount of the time, say you start tier 1 devo gloves. Then you get a kill or two and when you back you have enough gold to get bloodforge or gloves. Is it worth buying bloodforge or getting gloves and tier 1 or 2 of a second item?
The only time i'll ever build bloodforge early is in Assault on some hunters. In Assault you need sustain and lifesteal is a good way to keep your hp healthy especially when there are no healers and little hp5 regen. The options for building lifesteal would be bloodforge or asi or soul eater. while asi may be decent and soul eater can give you a lot of regen they'll both end up with your auto attacks doing almost nothing. So often i'll take bloodforge so my auto attacks will be viable early and i'll have some regeneration. or i'll get crafty and do some odd build by only getting like tier 2/1 of bloodforge for regen and getting something like boots.
what's your movement buttons keyed as if your skills are A, W and R?
Pwent i would assume instead of using WASD, he uses ESDF. Just move everything one key to the right. Ive seen alot of smite players play this way
I was thinking that. i was trying that earlier and my hands won't allow to do that myself, lol
i have a Short question what doesnt fit to your great Video.
is There the possibility that berzerk ullr skin gets avaible again?
I'm a diamond ranked conquest and I see a lot of thantos building blood forge early. is there some upside to this. (I don't play jungle)
Is buying heartseeker after boots good in the jungle?
Dukessloth but IN assault we should build bloodforge if we are playing as a hunter or assassin ?
Yo duke, I've recently noticed since season 4 has started that people have a gold star above their rank X. Just wondering how they got it?
By early what do you mean? first second item or 3rd /4th
Can you put that late game build of this video? Awillix
Maybe this is not the place, but what are your thoughts about Ninja VS Warrior tabi on hunters?
What about mantle of discord?
CorruptedK9 It's not really good early but it makes you tanky af, CDR is also great, you should just not build it when behind
Too expensive m8
There are some exeptions like Chronos pendant on Hel is actually what you want early because of the passive and the MP5 that was increased.
How exactly can you calculate flat pen? I don't understand how it affects damage output.
Brendan Walker armor = damage reduction. By penetrating a flat/% amount of it, you easentially gain more damage against that target bc its less reduction for them
Thank you, but I understand that part. I've played smite for about 6 months. I just don't understand how flat penetration is actually calculating. For example, does 10 pen reduce 10 armor? Or is it calculated differently?
The one item I would argue about is bloodforge. In almost all cases, you are right it is really not worth it for the early game. As 1st item in assault when playing a hunter, it allows you to have a tone of early game damage on autos as well as abilities and it allows you to stay alive a lot longer which means that you will have an easier time getting ahead. Although, if the enemy team has more than 1 tank it is usually a better idea to get some flat pen off the start. PS The chronos pendant drives me nuts in assault. Mages almost always get it as a 1st item and then fall behind because they are doing hardly any damage with their abilities.
Is stone of Gaia a good idea as a first item? (Solo, someone w/ sustain let's say Guan)
Gem of Iso, I agree is most well-known on Poseidon, but don`t forget Ah-Puch on whom this is also a great early item.
I am curious what your thoughts are on rushed Mantle of Discord on guardians, especially Khepri. I usually build it as second item since I don`t want to waste buying and later selling Breastplate of Valor and it also gives magical defense, however it takes a long time before it comes on-line.
6:16 where did that Arachne come from? O_o
Did she buy Rallying Ritual that early into the game?
This doesn't apply to assault right?
I tend to buy early Breastplate for really aggressive supports, who just focus on bullying the enemy duo back to their tower and helping clear the minions at the cost of protecting its adc. Xing Tian for a good example, also works with aggressive Warrior supports like Sun Wukong. Breastplate means more early Sun Wukong Cudgels, which means more lane pressure and more damage on the enemy adc. And give an ideal scenario you might even towerdive with the ultimate and Breastplate ready.
Fatalis I like in the 3rd/4th spot on specific hunters. On ADC I build typically Deaths Toll, Devours Gauntlets, Boot, then either Fatalis or Ich
For the most part I agree with this, but I think that you should make one more exception. The sands- CDR boots- chronos pendant chang'e mid works because she never backs to base. She can get far enough ahead early with a decent jungle rotation that building void stone next (as it is really cheap for the t2 that does give a lesser aura) and then the bunny can bring the better version when she gets that farm is really strong.
Bloodforge on Assault is fine? At least for hunters. I would normally always go with Bloodforge or OB as first item as a hunter because of the attack speed or extra damage/sustain. Bloodforge can help me get an early lead and get fed off of that.
It is fine on Assault as you are always teamfighting. Getting that shield mid-fight is useful, but a majority of teamfights in Conquest take place later in the game, hence why it is a late-game item in Conquest.
its still terrible on assault early lmao
Dude, early bloodforge on assault is great. You know how many times I have tower dove at level 6 or 7 (only as an assassin or hunter) to get a kill, get that bloodforge shield, and get away without taking any damage? A lot of times. Gets you that early damage and those early kills, putting you ahead and making the rest of the game easier. On any other game mode, it's trash early.
there is still much better options for most hunters imo
so if you buy these items very early game, will you be more likely to fall off late game?
Hastened Fatalis is a great early pick for Medusa after Ninja Tabi. Along with her passive she becomes almost impossible to hit or get away from. Usually build Deathbringer and Poison Star on top of that followed by something for pen depending on the circumstance. Finishing it off with an item like Desolation or Qin's Sais isn't a bad idea.
I rush hastened on Bakasura in a lot of game modes. Sometimes I honestly wont even build boots on Baka, just Hastened into a stone cutting sword cuz you have enough movement speed, and you have 30 protection reduction, 10 flat pen, and you're free to build into a poisoned star next item and hit crazy hard with a mid game Bakasura :)
Dukesloth you should do an in-depth video on items that should be bought early
would building rage on a hunter first be fine?
What are some good, cheap items I should get for burst mages? A lot of good items are expensive. :(
Not related to the video, but does anyone know when the new consumables are coming to console, cant find the info anywhere. thanks
What one earth is your hud setup
Poor Athena... she didn't get the "diamond skins only" memo :(
what about stacking? Is it worth to stack in conquest?
travelkingable stacking is fine... who told you it wasn't? Thoth and warlocks are fairly popular for mages and dev gloves can occasionally be seen on some hunters. Besides that though, doom orb and trans have fallen heavily out of the meta and no other roles should be stacking.
All stacks are good(but u have to build it after boots),except Urchin u shoudnt buy urchin unless u are fucking the enemy team very hard but in that case the game should be f6 at 10
Fatalis first item on freya is/was justifiable because the attack speed DOES allow her to clear much earlier than boots do. She's relying 100% on her 2 to clear, so getting a few extra uses out of it makes a massive difference at level 1
what about chronos pendant and bloodforge on assault?
I agree with everything ; if you wanna built a sustain item earlier the better choose over Bloodforge would be Asi as it gives you pen,lifesteal and attack speed and the gold spent on Bloodforge could then be used on a second item aka boots
is sash a good item to start early
Duke, can you give a Recommended Morrigan build as of Season 4's current catalog of items?
THANK YOU !!!!! I have been sooo irritated with supports for soo long for cdr boots into bpov...
they, uh, buffed the damage on Chronic Pendant. It does 80 MP now, does that still put it on this list?
Deathbringer?
Felipe Freddo better late game when you have attack speed and pen, especially when you also have shuriken
Felipe Freddo I used to build that first on loki but you have to wait too long
Disagree with the chronos pendant, especially on gods like he bo. If you time it right, he has a .8 second cooldown on his 1. Also, for gods who have some issues with safety yet have some sustain/iffy escape, like isis, change, ra and such, it can keep you out of danger, you don't have to worry about mana for the most part, and you can still clear decently well, as well as poke without worrying that your clear won't be up for next wave.
BoV is great for agressive supps in arena, like Ymir or Hades, even as a sceond item. It just requires you to be extra careful at first and pick your initiations carefully.
How about a video on what are good slot items after boots for different gods and positions.
Ftw why death bringer is not the first item when I play my tank X neith?
What about rushing Fatalis on bakasura after boots?
Ultra xxlight You don't necessarily need to buy it second on Baka if you build up your passive before a gank
No rushing Rod of Dabooty anymore?..
but me booty is the best booty. :(
I usually buy Rod Of Tahuti as the fifth or last item in my Build. It increases Magical power by percentage and if you dont have a lot of power to begin with it dosen't have much of an impact.
Gotta disagree about not buying BoV in other game modes immediately after boots. In Arena, doing so as Ares (With Shoes of Focus + Blue Buff for full CDR) allows him to spam his ult a ton and force beads/ults from the enemy defensively. Even if it's Arena, that's why he's considered top tier in that mode. Also, like you mentioned, you can build MotV, Blue Boots, then BoV in Joust for example because most of the time, mages won't have enough power for one shot potential (On Guardians) after they buy their first item after boots.
Not saying you're wrong, it's just I don't think you're taking the gold gain per second into account when factoring builds (3 Gold/Sec in Conquest vs 8 Gold/Sec in Arena, Joust, Duel).
I know. It's just in the first 8 seconds, he said "both conquest and other modes" :P
Is jotuns worth it anymore
Have you ever seen a Loki without Jotunn's?
My Geb build was Watchers, Breastplate, stone of Gia, then variable defenses, and it worked pretty well for me, I don't know if I'd feel like a later Breastplate would be a good idea.
Also, I'd like your opinion on this, Stone of Gia, or Mail of Renewal? Could make a compelling video, but a simple reply with a reason why would be appreciated.
If your geb build works for you it's fine, but if you are support, maybe you should build into something that benefits the rest of the team as well? Soveregnity gives health and has an aura with physical protection, which your team will benefit more from early. It might be an exception in game modes like arena, where you are constantly facing off against 5 people.
Also, Stone of Gaia or Mail of Renewal would depend on composition of the teams and how the game is played. Do they have a lot of knock ups? Get Stone of Gaia. Mail of Renewal has always been a sort of gamble item, because it needs you to get kills or assists for it to be worth it. If enemies dies consistantly in your game, it could work nicely.
i cant see the video now, could someone tell me about what items he speak??,
Ive been waiting for it :D. Could u do a video about Izanami and how to counter her ?
towers do physical damage?
Spiteful yes
I respectfully disagree on BoV in arena. If you are support in arena, you shouldnt be soaking pointless damage. When you buy it second, you will be aiming to make the most out of your cc abilities to peel for teammates or setup combos. There is no use in being impossible to kill if you cant save your teammate in time because an ability was cooling down. The skillcap in arena is knowing how to successfully zone enemies and knowing just how close you can step to someone to bait out an attack and dodge it, rather than eat it. You generally want to follow BoV with something like Heartward Amulet anyway, so the lack of magical defense is pretty moot after a few short minutes.
That's only for arena though, where the gold curve and item curve is much faster.
This is the one place I agree with a "greedy" build. I often inverse my support build in arena. Instead of the aura items, I go BoV and BoH first, IF my team is being smart and not getting pounded. That way I can use my CDR and better personal protections to zone, initiate, chase, etc. Late game arena is when the big team fights at the gates are happening and your auras have more effect. If we're getting hurt early, I suck it up and go traditional build to try to mitigate the damage.
in arena, Hastened and bloodforge together work pretty ell for many hunters as 2nd and 3rd items after boots though, especially if we're talking about ability powered hunters ith good power scaling, like Hou Yi for eaxmple, or even Cupid, though I'd rather build all my hunters for crit, I do see that pair often on opponents, and it's oddly effective, even I build bloodforge as 3rd item on hunters in arena
On gods, ignore their weaknesses, capatilize on there strengths with a little mix of what u need. then boom, you unlock the God's full potential!
what to build at start? a starter item for sure, then movement speed. the next item depends on situation.
Aim for dps (damage per second) on hunters, so high damge with 1 or 2 attack speed items, DONT FORGET TO HAVE SOME CRIT CHANCE.
Assassins you want high damage "Usually". if u have someone like nemesis whos abilities dont do much u aim for high dps for your basic attacks like hunters.
Gaurdians u want to make them tough which means protections. look at your enemies and see what type of damage they all deal and then build the protection against them. dont worry about putting on damage items for gaurds, they dont need it 😈.
Mages u want high damage all the way unless u have someone like sol or Freya, grab at least 1 or 2 attack speed items for them and then build other items that say they give bonus damage like the one that deals an extra 10%max health as bonus damage.
Warriors are like gaurdians except they deal physical damage. same rule applies for them as gaurdians too, a little attack speed can help them become more deadly, other than that, hit a few protections, 1 item that gives hp5 and mp5 , then the rest is up to you.
learn the gods by going into the god section from the main menu. click on one of the gods on go down to abilities. read about them and see how much power they take from the items you build. if everything but the ultimate takes below around 50% of your items power, go for your basic attacks or items that grant bonus damage. gaurds no unless your in a situation where youre like "okay i can use some extra damage".
oh and 1 last thing, learn to fight with your team! respond asap when teamates need you to fo something.
actually i have another thing to say. dont be that guy fighting 1v5 and screaming at your team to help. you dont know whos not good yet on your team and if u are the only warrior or gaurdian, the enemy team will run past u and kill them because mages, hunters, and assassins become the bigger threat bevause the once big threat gaurd or warrior is now distracted, (which to the enemy team feels like you are afk).
rambling ( i see people do this and get my whole teamed killed and everyone is yelling at me. enemy team took no damage during their suicidal attempt. based off of that its easy to tell that even if i helped we could of got 1 or 2 kills, "COULD" Meaning it could also be 0. we still would have all got wiped out in the end. once my two or 3 abilities are down and yall doin 0 damage, tf else is there to do except sit there n get our asses handed to use. i was he bo with no ult. its stupid for hebo to get "IN THE MIDDLE" not on the side of the battle IN THE FKING MIDDLE and try to attack with NO ULT and your teamates are dying. i mean any person with a brain, is good at this game, and pictures whats gonna happen in this situation can see how it will not turn out well for that hebo. talkin bout if i helped theyd of not died. btch i helped from the sides, yes i ran away with full health after i seen you all about to die hebos health dont matter he can get 1 shotted by EVERYTHING!
could you not argue that building chronoscope pendant on The Morrigan early will allow for many more uses of her ult
What kinda team comp was that athena*mid, awilix *carry, neith * jungler, Medusa* solo
And the guy that is like torb as a guardian
Fatalis always comes before boots on Freya. Especially last season. Without that extra attack speed she could only get 4 shots off if you remember old soul stone, not being able to get that ranged 4th basic is so bad it slows down her clear. Besides Freya can't do anything without Fatalis to begin with. I even tested it, Fatalis before boots yielded better results. The attack speed helps her clear far more than the power from boots.
what SHOULD we build early?
I am only a Loki player so CDR is important. The more often I can go invincible, the better so I can constantly get the OP Backstabbing bonus.
Duke, I have a tendency to rush bloodforge all the time. I have a very specific build that I use when rushing this item and most of the modes that I play. And because of my place though I can typically make it work.
Mantle of discord? I usually build the tier 2 pretty early but dont finish it until mid- late game.
Bloodforge is really nice on Bell right off bat.... my build get normally around 10-15 time on avage and only dies about 1 or 2 times depending on hold ball-z i get