Which one is right for you?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Stuck trying to decide whether or not to get an AIO versus a custom loop? Here is some information to help you decide!
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Hardline/custom loop owner here. Much harder to maintain and build, more expensive, but I love looking at it and knowing that it's one of a kind, looks great and performs well
what's wrong with soft tubing & distilled water?
I bought a 3950X with a X570 master and 32 Gb 3600 DDR4. I was going to buy an RTX 3080. But for obvious reasons it didn't happen.
Inspired by Jays vids I thought I'm going to water cool this sucker". And so I started buying the stuff week by week.
When I had it all, I looked at it and thought "holly crap, this is that Jays fault" I'm glad I did it. Nowhere near perfect but ok for a first try
yep im glad i chose soft tubbing first because it was easier to deal with i had no issues at all
@@kevinerbs2778 nothing, had that setup for years
@@kevinerbs2778 There's nothing wrong with it at all...
It depends on you - do you mind soft tubing, organic looking loops - or do you want your tubes not "sagging", looking more uniform.
They will both perform the same if the pumps and rads are the same - it's just about what pleases you.
Oh, and if you're willing to spend the time trying to bend everything perfectly for your hardline tubes.
Just do whatever makes you happy - I would certainly start with a soft tubing build, just so you get used to everything fitting together, but other than the learning curve... all up to the individual really.
Just did my second hardline water-cooling build, its not about practicality, its about the satisfaction of the build. Its a hobby after all.
AIO cause I don’t have to build the loop or manage it lol
Lol I'm exactly the same
I feel the same. Lol
Did my first custom loop this year. It’s really not that bad with corsairs bending kit and some patience. AIO are easier an cheaper, but the custom loops look sick 👍
Once built, just gotta replace fluid once every 2 years. Sooner if you don't use premixes.
Seriously, not that bad, performs better and is quieter than an AIO.
Aios may involve a lot less maintenance than a clc, but that doesn’t mean no maintenance! A lot of bad aio situations could have been solved if they let you top up the fluid inside.
I remember browsing the aquarium sections way back in the day trying to figure out how to rig up my own custom cooling solution. Custom cooling has come a long way, it is just too bad that everything is so expensive now. Aquarium section included.
Having built both, I like the simplicity of the AIO. I’ve spent a ton of money making a few open loops and still have a box full of odds and ends for when I eventually make another loop.
Same here. Considering how cool my 4080 runs, I can’t convince myself the need of a custom loop. Previous 3000 series watercooling was the way to keep them silent and cool, but not really needed now, as long the case offers good airflow, you’re better off splashing on some quiet fans.
Oh yeah. AIOs being super easy/simple to handle is a gift from God
Wish there were aios without the fans tho. That way it would save cost and people could use better fans too without going full custom loop. Idk how to do a custom loop but I sure as hell know how to replace a radiator fan, in fact, you gotta attach the included ones yourself anyway.
I've built a custom loop a couple of years ago. The second PC I've ever built. It's amazing to look at something you've built yourself. I cleaned my loop last week for the first time and used the opportunity to upgrade the GPU. Maintenance is not that bad (at that point you know your loop). Planing and building was far more exhausting, especially if its the first time. If things don't go as planned or you make mistakes that destroy something, things can get expensive and frustrating.
Both have places - but the AIO generally will focus on one component (ie CPU, GPU, and most recently (thanks to Team Group) NVMe drives, etc), while the custom loop can be expanded to include many devices, rad's, etc.
I just put together my first open loop a few weeks ago using your videos as sort of a guide, Jay, and I'm super happy with how it turned out. There's a lot more creative freedom in making it yourself; planning the tube bends, choosing fittings, and coolant color, etc than with an aio. I would say, if you want to cool multiple components, and you have the coin, do a full custom loop. They're so much fun to build.
I have an internal crisis just to even think about making perfekt 90 degrees bends and making sure every fitting is good and dry
@@Chaos_Dave98You can buy pre-bent tubes.
I would love to see more water cooling guides. It's actually reason why I found this channel.
Everyone keeps telling him to make OC and water-cooling stuff
there is plenty of it in his video library :D
@@tomast9034 oh I know but with watching this video and him talking about the hard lines, didn't realize they had so many options. Haven't looked at custom parts in over a decade.
for 0.1% of his audience
@@backlogbuddies It's cause that is what's pretty much I see people care about. Otherwise they do gaming on console, or just a cell phone.
Love your channel Jay! Have to say, I’m a total amateur with PC building but recently finished my first build: i9 13900KS, EVGA Classified mobo, 64G G.Skill DDR5 6400, 3 TB Samsung 990 M2 memory, and GIGABYTE 4090 OC, Corsair 170 AIO w/140 fans/RGB, Corsair 7000D w/3 140fans, Corsair 1500W power. Your videos were invaluable. This PC booted the first time, loaded BIOS update first try, Windows 11 (your install with minimal crap and no account work around is great). Running Adobe Photoshop, Lightroom, MW2 at 250 fps and with this cooling never exceeds 60-65C if it ever gets that high, usually 38-55C. Based on my limited experience, all this hype about custom cooling vs AIOs and mega “fannage” is just that “hype” unless your planning serious overclocking (why?? “Because its there” I guess). Anyway, keep up the good work and videos and many thanks!
I love learning a little bit more about water cooling like this, I live in a high desert environment and summers here are way too hot for an air cooler so liquid is the only way to keep my rig cool. Sadly the next major hold up for me is price i never have a lot of money so AIOs are enough to keep my pc alive and gaming while also not spending all my money. Thanks Jay Phil and Nic for these info videos like this maybe one day I can go open loop but any more little info I can have is always welcome and definitely helps make decisions easier. 😀
Always bear in mind that a low end chiller will greatly outperform even the most hardcore PC solution. In the desert during the hot months I imagine you wouldn't need to worry about condensation either, so you could crank it up properly.
When you discover hybrid gpus its as game changing as aios. I have a 1070 hybrid I gave my nephew from the 1st cryptocurrency craze. Still going strong 5 years later. It's all about proper rad positioning.
Glad you’re doing better and recovering fast Jay. Great video as always. You and the team are top notch 🤘.
Wish there were more vids like this. Its quite helpful if you are new to building a PC on what cooler to buy. Top work Jay 👍
An air cooler is probably fine unless you are going i7 or i9 on recent intel... Though water cooling looks cool and is better to brag about
I really enjoyed making my custom loop on a heavily overclocked Xeon x5670 and I’m sure it performed better, but it’s just so expensive and overkill with todays chips. They’re already boosting themselves and not much OC headroom , thermals don’t seem to be the limiting reagent. On an Arctic freezer 280 AIO refurb I got from factory for $55 plus shipping on my R5-5600 and couldn’t be happier
Been running custom for 10yrs now, pretty much have moved the same hardware through different builds over that time. Only thing's I've added are spare rads, tubing, and pumps ( I have a hardware hoarding problem as well - lol). Now AiO's are just simple turn key options for watercooling - I tend to suggest them for people that want an easy option to get started.
I stopped watercooling, gpu blocks cant br reused and have gotten expensive, cpu block too often cannot be reused. It's an expensive hobby. The fittings alone costing more than a dh15. These days graphics cards have great included coolers.
@@jondonnelly3 In my case I have been on the same GPU for 6yrs now, but previous models I used the sale of the previous card w/ block to fund the next one. But yes it does get expensive fast, I stick with EK's ZMT tubing due to cost and compatibility with fittings (I still have a ton of hardline fittings if I feel like going that route again). My son's rig will remain on air due to cost and maintenance, which is another thing open-loop is maintenance intensive in comparison.
@@jondonnelly3 WTF kind of bullshit are you spouting? CPU and GPU blocks absolutely can be reused unless you're being an idiot and damaging them. My Velocity block has been on like 5 different CPUs over multiple years, and I've purchased used GPU blocks that do just fine.
No one listen to this person, they're clearly clueless.
@Jon Donnelly yeah, a good way to do is wait for previous gen GPU blocks to go on sale, they can't get rid of them easily. I think heatkiller is still selling 2080 blocks. If you don't mind not being latest and greatest
I think aio is great for most. I think custom loops allow you to do a lot more and have greater capability. There is also the second kind of cool in that its one of a kind and such.
This is the only material I'm consuming to prepare for my fluid dynamics test due in an hour, I hope Jay hasn't led me astray
How did it go?
I use a 12v pond pump, keep the loop tolerance within 3 metre head pressure.
The cost is a non-trivial difference. I was pricing out a custom loop for my current PC build, and the loop components cost not quite the same amount as the rest of the components I was purchasing for the system rebuild / update. That alone moved me to an AIO for my R9 5900, and left the GPU air cooled.
"Custom PC Loop Cooling for Dummies." It's a handbook found at major bookstores. The book is located in the section containing guidebooks. You will also find the "MS-DOS for Dummies" handbook there. In the past, I built a custom cooling loop system. The loop included my CPU and two RTX 2080ti GPUs. Remember when SLI was the way to go? The tube bending is the hardest part of the assembly. I made a stand for my heat gun. It keeps the gun's tip at a set distance and perpendicular to my workbench. I added a simple temperature indicator to the bending guide and placed the guide below the heat gun so I knew when the tubing was ready for bending. My heat gun has variable heat allowing me to adjust the temperature to find the heat 'sweet spot' setting for bending.
Regarding the coolant type, this is also true for automobiles. When the manufacturer says to use a specific type of coolant, abide by it or you run the risk of corrosion and potentially turning your engine into a boat anchor in time.
With cars you just need to research whether they're lying or not. I messed up on my truck by mixing 2 incompatible fluids and it gummed up and killed the pump. Some of them are just proprietary for money tho
This is mainly an issue with FCA vehicles. The HOAT vs OAT confusion is a mess
If you have a German car, trust in their engineering :) There is a reason it is like that ;) Yes, they require maintenance, but maintain them as needed & specified and both you and the cars will have a nice, lovely and prosperous life ;) Computers are exactly the same way as cars -both hardware & software and besides water-cooling ;)
@@Helifax19 you got jokes 😂😂😂 German cars were good in the 90s, now there is nothing to trust except maybe the engine block and idk about that one. German cars don't live prosperous lives, Japanese cars do
@@andrewk8636 I think it depends where you are ;) In Europe is the other way around ;) German cars live a long (too long) time. I can't argue with JP cars though:) They live long no matter where they are! I vote them for the means of transportation on Mars or Luna - when/if they still do those expeditions :))
Hmm, i've had the same AIO since 2015. No issues yet. I've always used AIO's and love them. Simple, cheaper, easy to install.
yeah i had a kraken 360 that the pump died after 6 months, got a h110i 280 that ive now had for 6 and half years.
For building something practical, AIO will always win out....but then by that logic just get an NH D15
Nh d15 v2! The just updated the fans for higher static pressure!
Hey Jay, been a fan for years and have always appreciated your input, and especially your honesty. For over 40 years I've built custom systems for myself and for clients. To me, the primary reason to build a custom system is that you are not stuck with inferior or proprietary parts, which is almost always the case with prebuilt systems from any manufacturer, including, and in some cases especially, Apple systems, which can feature elegant design, yet still be comprised of and compromised by inferior parts, always at a premium price. Although I might build a custom watercooled system for myself just to satisfy the ego, after watching this video I will never build one for a client. Forgetting the 5-6-X increase in cost for a 5-8% increase in cooling efficiency, I could never guarantee a custom watercooled system as I do my air- and AIO-cooled systems. The risk of increased support cost and catastrophic failure is just too great. I am surprised that no company has yet seen the potential for a better performing AIO utilizing superior parts and materials. Seems to me there would be a market for such a device, with a copper radiator and a higher capacity pump.
It would have been nice to see the temp difference between the AIO and the custom loop.
Temp difference is not usually enough to justify the cost difference. Most people do it for looks
He has a ton of vids on that. Custom loops are the way to go for cooler temps depending on application and what your doing with the PC.
@@stevenandrews8225 Until you get to 7950x/13900k & 4090 levels of heat, then temps will be very different. I live in a very hot and humid climate (40c summers), so air isn't an option, and AIO's aren't going to keep my HW under control (there is also a good amount of overclocking going on and the margins really start to matter at that point).
Got a Strix LC II 360 AIO. It's my first liquid cooler. I have it on a 13900ks. I'm extremely impressed, this thing is amazing, but temps can be a little unstable and now I see why. I ended up installing a thermal grizzly contact frame which evened things out a bit. That being said this breakdown is actually really cool, I haven't looked into Open Loop systems because I didn't understand the need for it aside from overclocking, but this clearly shows the benefits of going the extra mile. ONE DAY!
I did my first custom loop last year and likely wont do it again. It was fun and I love it but its wicked expensive. However my loop now will last me at least 5 years. After this im going back to either an aio or air.
It is indeed expensive - that being said, as long as you take care of it properly, you likely won't have to spend that much at once again. Hell, you could probably keep it for more than 5 years honestly - maybe replace a pump if it dies and coolant and ur good.
Obviously, AIO or air is way more convenient though.
@@ianc.4444 Yeah that's true. I did spend about $200 or more on the fittings and those will last likely forever. Same with my cpu block, my gpu block is another story though. Luckily I have a 3080ti so I don't plan on upgrading that for a decent while.
Just use a Noctua NA-FC1 to generate a PWM signal for the pump. Only require SATA power, and works like a charm. Ramping speed up and down helps a lot when filling and bleeding, particularly when you got two or three D5-pumps in series.
Aio for £130
Takes 10 mins to install
90 percent of the performance
The extra ten percent perf you get from loop is also unneeded by 99 percent of users
But no GPU cooling.
Is it possible to get another aio for gpu cooling just asking
@@centenario6677 Yes, Alphacool makes the Eiswolf 2 GPU AIO using their open loop parts. I run a 360mm Eiswolf 2 on my 3080. Temps never go above 53c under load.
@@kylesenior not needed if you have anything that isn't a reference model. And even then. Many gpus can run very very hot.
I disagree. More like 95% of the performance :) Caveat - in regard to pure CPU only cooling. Especially when the £130 AIO is an Arctic LFII 420.
I recently swapped my case to pretty much my dream case (Fractal Torrent, I'm going to be using this thing probably for the rest of my life, or until PC parts change dimensions enough that they no longer fit) and dumped my AIO in favor of an NH-D15, which, again, I will likely use until mounting systems change or CPUs become too large for it. Fans are easy to replace, I don't expect that to be a problem for my case or cooler.
Would have loved a side by side comparison of real world performance. I know the custom loop performs better, I've had both on the same system. But seeing that here would have driven the point of the video home.
My Corsair H150i 280mm AIO has been running solid for 7 straight years now (Built it in Jan 2017 on an i7 7700K) still only hitting 61-65C under Full load. Using Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut as Thermal Paste between die/IHS and between IHS and Coldplate. No leaks no failure. Front mounted in the case.
Have Not touched it in 7 years except from some dust spray cleaning of the fans and fins.
That is a damn reliable AIO and as headache free as it can get.
Ive got a Kraken from march 2017 aswell for the 7700k. Have not touched that at all. I started wondering about a year ago how long it will work 😅
Ig ill just wait for it to break and take that as a sign to build a new pc
I've probably been very lucky, but I'm still using my 2015 Corsair H105 AIO. Yes, a couple of years ago I completely disassembled it because it was making air noise, replaced the hoses with food grade silicone hoses that will withstand from -60C to 200C which I attached to the pump and radiator with fuel hose clamps and of course changed the coolant.
I transferred it from one PC to another and am still using it.
I might buy a new one but I want to see how long it lasts. 😅
I have a h100i I just cleaned and refilled for the first time with my new build, hardly any evaporation. Running great with my 13700k in the 750d case. Had both asking with the evga supernova g2 750w going strong since 2014/2015
you can now turn it into a full custom loop.
It's just for show basically. You can buy an amazing airflow case, upgrade your GPU, CPU, RGB fans and a huge air cooler for cheaper than a custom loop. The PC will look amazing, maintenance is just cleaning it 2-3 times a year, there's no risk of anything leaking, destroying your expensive components and your performance will be better since you've invested in newer, better, more power efficient parts that require less cooling instead of pumps, fittings, radiators and tubes. Running your components under full load at 60C-70C instead of 50C-60C will not thermal throttle them at all and will not reduce their life span to the point you'll need to replace them before they're completely irrelevant. As a hobby, it is fun. But for most people, performance matters most.
This definitely made me check my AIO and my temps. Going on 5 years old and seemingly fine. Pump temps are fine though the actual CPU temps are a tad higher than I'd expect.
That's likely due to needing new thermal paste
@@Jayztwocents Thanks for the reply! That’s definitely something I need to do at this point.
@@Jayztwocents Thanks again for the reminder that this should be done. Replaced the stuff that came on the Corsair AIO with some Kryonaut and it brought the CPU temps down several degrees. It also somehow fixed the weird issue I had where the task manager would falsely report 100% usage until I reset the power settings.
I did my first custom loop 2 years ago with Thermaltake pastel colours and after about 3 months I noticed all the colour leaching out of the reservoir and planned to replace the fluid.
Approximately 3 or 4 days later while sitting at by computer the first fitting after the pump blew the pipe out and dumped all the fluid into the case. I inspected the fitting and pipe and it was perfect, so what I believe happened was what ever chemical reaction that caused the colour to leach out pressurized the system.
I contacted Thermaltake and they not only replaced the pump/res, radiator, fluid and pipe work they sent me a core P7 to replace the lost case. The point is that even when you do everything right you can still have problems. I wouldn't recommend custom loops for your daily computer, also shoutout Thermaltake for stepping up.
Should probably also comment that a water loop does NOT need to be as expensive as Jay here implies. The main item you look for really is just the cpu water block or plate as that has to fit. (but you can still get cheaper options than EK, even older ones can be modded to work). But everything else you can get from local stores. I mean a water pump, go to your local pet store and pick up an Eheim pump, you can get tubing there as well (though I prefer Tygon 2475 or 3603 depending on what fluid I'm using). Barbed fittings can be found at home depot/hardware store as well as the clamps. for a radiator you can go to a local junk yard, or if you're friendly with your HVAC guy see if they are replacing any units and pull something from there. Fans can be anything as well (old computer fans, bathroom fans, or whatever). It's NOT rocket science. Biggest item is to check galvanic corrosion tables (ideally using all brass/copper for example for metals). and then some distilled water & water wetter (auto store usually). It may not be 'pretty' but it works.
This is some scrapyard wars tier bootlegging
@@Junebug89 and I'm here for it, very function over form
I used to use Eheim pumps for all my loops - they aren't as fancy and tend to look a bit more clunky, but this is what they are designed for. I had one fail after 9 years - I was quite satisfied with that sort of longevity.
@@malphadour yup, people just need to think a bit outside the box. That was 'normal' back in the 80's/90's. Companies these days all try and make people think that you NEED them (to lock you in), but physics works the same for everyone. For pumps I've even used auto fuel pumps (they're also 12v) but they are not rated for 24x7 like a fishtank pump, so they burn out faster.
OMG is this the kick off of the summer water cooling vids?! excitiiing
Custom can be bigger, generally has more liquid so it can take away more heat without actually heating up
Fanspeed 110% + headphones.. no problem
I'm not sure more liquid = take away more heat. I think it all boils down (no pun) to what's happening at the radiator that is the place where all the cooling happens, if you move it through too fast it doesn't cool down the liquid much, if you do too slow then it doesn't pull the hotter fluid away from the cooling plate quick enough.
Kind of but not quite. More liquid does take longer to heat up IF you are applying heat to all of the liquid at once. A loop will have overall cooler liquid avg because the majority of time the liquid is not doing anything. Once the liquid is cooled leaving the radiator, it is not doing anything to help cool the system until it goes through the block. The temp of the liquid before that point means nothing useful to the heat exchange unless there is an issue with it not cooling down coming out of the radiator.
The only 2 places that temp matters is the exit of the block (showing that it picked up as much of the heat transfer as possible) and the exit of the radiator (showing that it is being cooled down as much as possible for it's next pass). An AIO that shows a huge degree difference in those 2 spots could mean that it is removing a ton more heat then a custom loop that shows the liquid is cooler overall but the difference in exit temps is much smaller.
The only thing that really matters is that you like the cooling option you put in and it the setup works as you want it to.
@@sierraecho884 The question was whether a larger amount of liquid in a custom loop would draw more heat then the smaller amount in an AIO. The answer is not necessarily because neither are passive systems of dispensation. Nothing you said disputes what I said. Your right, a cup of liquid will heat up faster then a tub. But if you apply the heat at the same point and implement the same type of cooling rotation for the point of heat contact, you negate the difference. At any point there is x amount of heat being transferred in y amount of surface area and the liquid is leaving that area to cool and come back. As long as both solutions have enough liquid, the amount of liquid being used in the loop means nothing because only the liquid in contact to the transfer surface matters. That is the liquid that will be heating up. If the heat to transfer, the surface area for the transfer and the rate of flow are equal then the temp of the important liquid will be the same when they leave the block.
If the transfer area is a segmented 1 liquid ounce then it doesn't matter how much more liquid is waiting to be heated up, whether a cup or a tubs worth. Only the 1 liquid once that has been removed from the cup or tub for the exchange does.
The amount of liquid above the minimum necessary to function means almost nothing to performance while the surface area in the block is hugely important. AIO or custom, the one with the better fin/channel contact surface area design is going to provide better cooling.
More liquid is irrelevant to final temperature, it will just extend the time until you reach heat soak. More dissipation is what takes away heat and this is down to the properties of your radiators and fans,
My Soft line custom loop is 7 years old. I flushed it 2 years ago with no growth or clogging. I watched your videos and built it. The only problem I have had is my fans started buzzing from bearing failure a couple years back... Cats. Anyways thanks for the solid info.
I wanna know your thoughts on the Alphacool AIO’s! They use off the shelf parts like copper radiators and DDC pumps, and they’ve got quick-disconnects for adding pumps, rads, or linking other loops together. Been considering a dual 360 setup from them and combining the loops for my next build, seems like the best of both worlds
When Jay brought up the "first open-loop build" about not having enough fittings i felt a little attacked. My first ever open-loop build i did i was short ONE FITTING. Luckily for me it was only a 3 hr drive to the nearest microcenter but man was it worth building it because now even to this day because of these videos i feel more and more comfortable about working on my computer and trying out of the box trouble shooting.
I was honestly surprised to see the ID of the AIO tubing. I knew it would be a decent bit smaller than the OD but not by that much.
I’m sure I fall in with a million others, but it’s super awesome to have you back, Jay! I hope recovery is going well and everything is a success!
You should do another video on custom loops on how people can over spend when not needed. That’s interesting to me since how I’ve never built one.
this, there is a trade off
I have my H100i and Ive had it for many years at this point and its been running nonstop essentially and hasn't let me down.
Lithium, Sodium, Potasium, Calcium, Titanium, Chromium ... US, don't, please .... Alumi-NUM 🤪
Before watching ok, AIO only cools one component, and the pump is usually weak, and it cannot be maintained or repaired, and the ASETEK licensing pumps up the price, the CPU AIOs usually come with 2-3 cables coming out of it, and need software running in the background to be controlled.
I would love to see you look at expandable AiO (Alphacool has one) as well as how to include a GPU waterblock into it as well. I'm guessing it is able to accommodate a GPU waterblock and an extra radiator since it claims to be expandable.
The biggest problem in that, is that most of those small standard aseteck pumps integrated into the cpu block on aio’s is not powerfull enough to drive a bigger loop. They are just about big enough to drive a 360 radiator, but you are absolutely right. Would be nice to see more models using some standard fittings so you could add a gpu loop and a tap to empty and refill the loop. I don’t have enough knowledge if it’s even possible to theoretically add an extra pump and resovaire without problems, but have often wondered why they don’t make it possible to mod an aio via standard fittings, but its most likely to avoid having to foresee all the problems a modder could create to something that really only is designed to single loop system.
@@mrdali67 On Alphacool's website, they also have expandable AiO GPU waterblocks. I didn't look to closely, but would assume these would just daisy chain. I would also think you could couple their AiO with an open loop GPU. Hence why I am curious and would like to see more.
I work as a software engineer and never really touched Hardware much less cared for it.
But I got interested by friends years ago. Came to your channel and learned and got excited to build my first computer.
I built my first computer a while back using an AIO and then built one for my Dad as he needed a new computer and I was excited to do it again. I am probably going to give my current first build that has upgrades to a family member and then create a whole new build.
I really want to do custom looping instead of AIO this time around to experience it and cool a much much more powerful build.
This video really helps me know more details about it and comparing the two I still would need to do so much more research to make a final decision.
Custom loop all the way. It’s addictive. Once you do it you can never have another build that isn’t custom
Yep. I like handling it myself with full cover waterblocks.
I have a Raijintek Orcus 240 in my pc which has lasted 5 years now. It has the pump on the pipes and came with a bottle of liquid to replace if needed as it has a screw on the cpu cooler to drain . I've not yet needed it as it's been a superb AIO and still looks really cool.... It's now cooling my 5800X3D superbly
AIO all the way. Minimum maintenance, ease of upgradeability and close enough performance
The only thing that prevents me from going full custom loop is not the cost or the hustle building it. It's the maintenance nightmare if you wanna do a complete system clean up or if you upgrade regularly. Draining the loop, disassembling it, then assembling it all again, check for leaks, fill it up, bleed it... IT's basically a full day work, while with an AIO like the LF II it's as simple as unscrew it and screw it back on afterwards. Custom loops look sick, no match for noise either, but damn that hustle when you decide to upgrade or maintain.
Had a custom loop for about 4 years now.
Was a fun experience building it, but for my new build next week i'll go for an 360mm AiO for the 7800x3d and air cooling for GPU and the rest of the case :)
I've had a really minimum leakage on one of the hosepipes due to it not sitting straight on the fitting after warming up and bending a bit. Luckily i saw it immediately and nothing bad happened, also cuz my liquid is UV reactive green :D
I'll say about is ease of use for a new builder. Easy on my pocket too. Custom loops are better long term and I will get where I can make one.
Most aios have an aluminum radiator vs a copper one like alphacool which uses regular water cooling parts for an aio
Back when I still did water cooling I always used distilled water with 2.5% antifreeze mixed in. Never had any issues with neither growth nor corrosion.
I decided to go with an open loop design. For 2 reasons. One The individual components can be better, and two. Because of expandability. On the first point, being better components. Most, if not all aio's come with a radiator that is only 27mm thick. The Radiator that I chose was 60mm thick. So in effect doubling the size, and capacity of a an already large 480mm radiator. without taking up twice as much real-estate. From a business stand point. The current aio's include a lot. But in order to make it profitable. Corners have to be cut. So on one hand you get cheap and easy with an AIO. But on the other hand, it will never be as good as it could be. With an open loop, it will be as good as you want it to be. But it will never be as easy to maintain as a AIO. Since with an AIO there is no maintenance. Once it fails, replace it, and whatever parts it was meant to protect.
I made my own AIO using Barrow combo pump / cold plate, soft tubing, a 400 x 200 copper radiator and 2 x Noctua 200mm fans. This fitted perfect in the lid of my Haf 700 and is near silent on full blast. Cooling wise. never seen over 50c on my 5950X !!! I worked out the Barrow pump moved 4 times the water of a standard AIO and easy to add extra rads if needed.
Please please please do another Ultimate fitting guide and more water cooling guides in general!
The 2 big reasons that I won’t do a custom open loop, is because of the discrepancy in sizes of pipes and availability. And the biggest one which you didn’t mention in this video but have in the past , YOU HAVE TO BUY EACH SINGLE FITTING AND THEY ARE NOT CHEAP and you need to hope you have enough.
So you have to somehow plan and measure your entire loop without having any fittings.
I have a custom loop without a reservoir, I filled the loop with a small bucket, I used koolance quick disconnects though, that helped keep the air out
He’s right about the coolant, get colored tubing and clear liquid. Koolance LIQ705 is excellent, I highly recommend it. Lasts a very long time. I’ve had it in my loop unchanged for years, ever since I built a 7700K system, so 2017. I’ve added, but never had to change it.
The end of the video was the best "sell" for air cooling I have ever seen (I am an AIO user) Thanks Jay and team for breaking my heart!
Much needed for dummies like me. Like I would've never thought about something like considering PETG tubing. Thanks for this.
Went with an AIO for my 13900ks and it can cool 330w. Its awesome and little maintenance is a big win for me
I just serviced my AIO a couple of days ago.
It's an Alphacool Eisbaer Pro Aurora 360 and it was designed with maintenance in mind. Also the radiator is copper (and brass for the threads). It has a fill port in the pump housing, a quick-release connector in the tubing and you can easily unscrew the base plate.
This AIO has all the relevant features in terms of longevity and maintenance and quality but when it comes to cost it's not more expensive than your typical mid-range 360 AIOs.
Downsides are the clunky appearence, the noisy fans (I replaced them with Lian Lis) and the relatively low flow rate of the pump (compared to a custom loop).
Same custom loop since 2008 best solution for me!
I done custom water cooling for two years about 10 years ago. I switched to an AIO and I have no regrets.
I bought a be quiet Pure Loop 120 to cool my AMD R5 5600X two weeks ago and I'm using thermal grizzly hydronaught thermal paste. I'm using pbo curve optimiser and my CPU hits 4.85GHz all cores 77wayt.
With the 120mm cooler the CPU doesn't go above 56c at 100% use no matter what CPU test I throw at it. I've run various stress tests and no I didn't just run the tests for 20 minutes. I ran them for an hour each. Including occt , cinebrnch and a few others I can't remember from the top of my head.
Also the pure loop comes with a bottle of water to refill the lopp.
i like clean builds with good cable management, no RGB and soft tube custom loop.
If I have to pick, I'd go custom. But tbh they both have there own use case alongside investment level and future options
This video pretty much convinced me never to bother with open loop. I don’t need the hassle. 😁
I have the EK solid white in my loop for a few years now. The longest I had it running without exchanging it was 2 years. So far I had no problems with it. Nothing has fallen out. Every time I took my loop apart it was perfectly clean, no residue in sight.
What might contribute to that is the fact that i use glass tubes.
Previous full hardline custom water loop owner here. I've switched to air cooling because it's such a headache to upgrade components when you have a custom loop, especially the GPU and motherboard. Draining the loop, changing the water block to fit the new graphics card, re-creating pipes, re-filling the loop, it just got too much of a hassle, because I like to upgrade often. Modern air cooling is so good now that there's no need to consider liquid cooling any more for performance reasons, only if you want it for aesthetic reasons. Currently running a 7950X and an RTX 4090 FE, fully on air, with a Noctua U12A on the CPU. The system's completely silent even under full sustained load, and I mean completely inaudible fan noise, with CPU or GPU temperatures never exceeding 70C max, with PBO/power limit tuning. With this level of performance attainable, I would only recommend liquid cooling if you fancy tinkering or want to build a unique-looking system.
I just enjoy making a unique build that takes me lots of planning. I enjoy the process, hence why I just finished a hard line tube build with bamboo case mods.
Gosh you said "when I started doing YT, all we had was non rigid"
Dude, we are SO DAMN OLD! I remeber when you quit your job to YT Full time, I remeber when Hardline came about, I still remeber Skunkworks (RIP Case Labs). So much has changed! So old we are getting!
When all the tubing would leach plasticizer, so you had to pick the right ones. I remeber my very first WC foray, was a kit, I want to say it was called like big something (EDIT: It was a Thermaltake Big Water 760i, back in 2007!). With a intergrated pump in a dual bay rez, Those were AIOs back then!
So fun fact about quality as well. Although it has not been used in a decade, I still have my OG Raystorm Kit from XSPC. I have the Raystorm and the 240mm Rad! Its so damn crazy to realize I have been watching your videos for 11 YEARS!
Hard tubing and a full front panel distribution panel in my current build. It was really expensive (but that was my choice) it was a nightmare to bend the tubes and get them to the correct length. Now it’s built it looks more amazing than any build I did in the last 30 years since I got into the PC hobby in college. I like AIO’s due to simplicity to install, but the aesthetic is nowhere near as nice as a well built custom loop with a decent colour theme. This weekend, after 3 years I finally got round to emptying my loop so I could upgrade the CPU. I hated having to mess with the tubing, but it gave more confidence to work on the loop again in the future.
Thank you Jay I decided to go ahead and build a custom loop.
funny how definitions can change over time. back in the days before aio existed, a closed loop was what nowadays is an open loop - no part of the water is exposed to the outside. whereas open loops had a big open bucket or vat as external component to support cooling by sheer mass and evaporation.
Living in Florida, I almost went with open loop, but since I'm on the road for two weeks at a time, AIO just seemed the safer way for me.
The corrosion caused by dissimilar metals (galvanic corrosion) is from using noble and base metals in very close proximity. Base metals shed electrons to noble metals, typically this is regardless of the fluid used, water, acids, milk etc etc. Coolants with corrosion inhibitors just slow the process, it’s a treating the symptoms however the problem still exist. Depending on the proximity of the parts corrosion inhibitors don’t do much. You can see galvanic corrosion on dissimilar metals that are just contacting each other for extended periods of time like tools at the bottom of an old toolbox. Thankfully the process takes a long time unless you are using steel or very cheap stainless steel with copper directly, that’s a good way to speed run the process.
Et Cetera (English: /ɛtˈsɛtərə/ or (proscribed) English: /ɛkˈsɛtərə/, Latin: [ɛt ˈkeːtɛra]), abbreviated to etc., etc, et cet., &c. or &c[1][2] is a Latin expression that is used in English to mean "and other similar things", or "and so forth".
In my design office, we use the custom loop for all 5 of our Threadripper equipped render farms. For the individual work PC's we use either a chunky air cooler or an AIO. I personally use an AIO for my home PC, much easier to maintain, cheaper, provides enough cooling, if something goes wrong, I'll just RMA it or buy a replacement.
I use both, but the only AIO’s I’ll use are Eisbaer by Alphacool - they’re serviceable, expandable, and important parts are copper so you can chop and change parts or reuse the rad etc anytime. Oh, and nice one on shadowbanning my tech account because I was critical on one of your videos. I don’t usually comment using this account when I’m on tech vids - I’m an editor of a site with more than 1m monthly individual visitors - my comment was harsh but absolutely true … sad… let’s see how long this lasts eh… ban this one from commenting too if you like, I wear many hats and bend like a read in the wind, you maybe should too. 👍 still love 99% of your stuff ❤️ 👍
I think the big thing or question that matters here is how much fiddling with your PC are you comfortable with is what it comes down to. Ease well easy win for the AIO. But like tinkering well clearly then custom loop is good for you.
Kindly do more videos on custom cooling, need more guides on choosing pipes/tubes and the different materials they're made from, fittings, coolant, rads ... etc
Have both, i prefer AIO for a quick solution for testing and my custom loop I use for my main system as it all copper and perform 50% better then my AIO.
i was working as a tester for a watercooling company and we dissampled other companies parts and compared them to ours.
when i started to work there i never did water cooling before.
AiO usually got a very small shovel for moving water! They got really low litre/hour. also you cant shorten the tubes on AiO if they are too long or vice versa.
BUT!! if you have a small CPU wich is really energy efficient and usually dont get really hot a Aircooler would be best.
Unless you got some HEAT Monsters you need to cool it depends on your setup. BUT its not wrong to get a Good Pump and a Reservoir as a base. You can usually take Fatter Radiators to shovel the heat energy out of the system. So
1. Good Pump to work against the Flow Resistance
2. Enough Water as a Heat Buffer also to never let your pump dry out.
3. Depending on your system heat generation you need a radiator and fans suited for the workload
4. system routing doesnt matter thermodynamic wise
my current maxload is enough for gaming but wont work for 24/7 cinebench so. you need to calculate it yourself - usually bigger = better for cooling
just my personal experience - dont buy alphacool , they lied to me a couple of times and they lost my trust. also never got their cpu block as good as they said (41 degree with 21c room temp and a professional water bath with 30C +/- 0.01C) we logged the exact same setup with heatkiller , ekwb , alphacool etc. 5 times with 5 different mouting methods and 5 different people! alphacool was always 5-10C worse than any other brand.
Thanks...now you got me worried abt my 7 yo Corsair AIO! Temperatures still seem fine...but my computer is overbuilt for what I use it for (work mostly). Still...now I'm thinking I should be finding a replacement jic! Great info btw. Very informative.
I still use a reeven 240 aio, however it's completely user serviceable. It has a port for draining & filling.
the major reason apart from cost that i have never attempted a custom loop is mostly because of the MANY complications with it. mixed metals, using the wrong water, getting the right tubing, fittings, etc. another factor that makes it difficult to me is i do not have the luxury of living in the US, so when i have to buy stuff, if i forget 1 thing i will have to wait weeks before i get it from amazon. one of my dreams is however still to at least try it with regular rubber tubing i dont think i'm brave enough to do hardline on my first build so i'll stick to rubber for now.
Custom water cooled build is either for data center or enthusiast. All others can stick to air or the ones that are littlebit more into can go AIO. I have custom and my kids AIO simply because it needs some skills that kids often do not yet have gained. And I am not willing to maintain more than one custom.
Building custom builds is like fishing. It is not about the goal, it is about to celebrate a hobby. One day my kids maybe also start to build customs and for me thats a good introduction of how to plan a project in a fun way. As life is full of such projects.
Recently cleaned out my loop and I did not have the thing for the PSU so I started it with system on and poured like a madman! Got it going again with new water and the anti-corrosive agent. AMD 5800X3D without coolant gets hot fast XD! I have a custom EK loop from 2020 and still going good to this day! Also, problem with AIO is when it dies, gotta replace whole thing: open loop, replace a part, easy.
If you use neoprene flexible tubing and clear fluid a custom loop is easy to build and almost maintenance free.
Really interesting stuff, I recently retired my old H110 AiO from corsair for a custom loop in my new pc. It did the excat thing of creating "bubble sounds", but I am really happy as I had it for like 6-7 years. I think its build pretty good, but sad to hear that just with everything nowadays build quality goes down for making more money instead of getting better over time.
I think they're is a middle ground with the right aios. Custom water cooling quality pumps, all copper parts, but in a closed system. Alphacool has one that is similar and is expandable, refillable, and uses a d5 pump in the rad. I just wish this was a bit more common because I feel like there is really a market for them.
I must be really rare. I have had 4 different Corsair AIO's. All are still running, and working, and the oldest one is about 10 years old.
I don't know why, but I have had GREAT luck, with machines that are on all the time.
The two oldest, are not used as much now. but still work.
The newest one, is a 240 rad, and it's about 4 years old I think. Running like a champ.
(yes, I do listen to them, look for leaks, check to see that I hear water running. and stress test to see that the pump speeds up, water temp is changing and that the CPU is not over heating and thermal throtleing.
(Ryzen 9 3900 if anyone is wondering)
Jay you say it on every video, and i have to correct you. BOTH OF THESE ARE CLOSED LOOPS. An open loop water cooler is a real thing, but it has water exposed to open air. Hence open vs closed loop. It's AIO vs Custom, both are closed loops though. Maybe this time you'll see my comment lmao. I've been trying to get you to see this for years now lol. These are borrow terms from the HVAC industry, back when I got into doing custom closed loops you only had some off the shelf parts available, and while you could buy all off the shelf, there were still people doing DIY work to make their own radiators using car parts and just brazing fittings onto them that worked with PC tubing. The guides of the time touching on this were written by HVAC professionals as much as they were PC overclocking enthusiasts, but it's gotten lost in translation over the years. Now, you CAN run a custom loop as an open loop, but you really don't want to because the loop is going to get dirty really fast. Open loops are best for when you want to have evaporative heat exchange come into play. People were doing open loop bong evaporative cooling and hooking their cooling up to giant loops buried in the ground or under pools well before Linus got the idea to do so at his current house, the first build I saw doing this was back in 2007 and integrated both open loop bong coolers during the summer, and in ground cooling year round, and then for their PC cooling needs they coupled the open loop to the closed loop by putting the closed loop's radiator in a cooling pool with a pump pushing water through it, rather than having it vent to the air, since it was more efficient this way. The radiator cooled the closed loop down and kept all their desktop PCs cooled 24/7 whether they were running or not.
hardline enthusiast and i can say that open loops are tedious at first and thats about it for as long as you know what you are doing. The upside of open loops are the pumps and oh boii aio pumps are meh compared to an open loop, also the noise is close to none by just letting the pump run in a very slow speed but still have a really good heat exchange
Felt the need to post another more relevant comment - excellent video Jay.
Can't wait to send it to some friends that have been asking for open loops without understanding the investment it takes.
Also, Noctua makes a *PWM signal generator* (NA-FC1) that could come in helpful while bleeding a system with a PWM pump.