This Verse Secretly Undermines All of Christianity
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มิ.ย. 2024
- It's no secret that there are many versions and denominations of Christianity, but there's one belief that they all have in common. And this verse completely destroys that shared belief.
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I never understood that aspect of Christianity. God tells us we have to forgive others even if they don't ask for it but he can't forgive us unless there's a sacrifice in our behalf.
The reason we're to forgive others without them asking for it is different from the ideaof God forgiving us through a sacrifice. We're to forgive because it frees us from the mental and possible physical problems that come from holding on to things mentally. The forgiveness involving a sacrifice involves us being forgiven with the knowledge that there is a penalty for the "crime" which cannot be dealt with without payment which would bring us to regret the crime (or sin) and have a mindset of changing mentally.
Christians literally worship a god who used one of his own sons to perform a human sacrifice with solely to appease himself.
@@phunter24 Great explanation! I might cite you :P Do you take any issue though with the idea that we're to ask for forgiveness from debts AS WE forgive our debtors while GOD YHWH still requires death? I know this goes into divine justice and all but it seems muddy to think BOTH Jesus fulfilled the will of God, yet only God required Jesus to die for sin. Jesus teachings taken alone with surrounding mysticism makes sense and universalizes with the idea of One or The All found in all religions (that are coherent). But with the idea like atonement and penal sub...it gets again, muddy.
It's because the god stuff is badly veiled blood magic, while the forgive each other stuff is trying to get along with each other without the badly veiled blood magic crap.
The only way it makes sense to me is that a super duper entity forgiving even the worst things we do means forgiveness is always possible. But people can forgive, or not, without such a notion. It is tied into the "how can you expect to be forgiven (for whatever your transgressions) if you don't forgive?" A nice idea I suppose, but psychology isn't so neat and tidy.
The most pure truth I noticed on this planet is this: Most people are full of shit.
Me too. I think my second wife was the only person I really ever knew that was not full of shit. And she died of cancer three years ago, that’s why I know there’s no freaking God. Otherwise IT would’ve taken me; I’d be the logical one to die early after smoking, drinking every day for 40+ years… Don’t give me weren’t wrong I wouldn’t change anything but I also love cannabis. However it’s screwed up my lungs now and I have to live without her and she was the only thing that really… I wanted to live for in life. Now she’s gone and I’m pissed!
@@davidthompson7817 I hear you, bro. Stay pissed, and turn that anger to something productive. So many people out there need help. So many truths need to be defended. So much shit needs to be exposed.
Far too many Christian fundamentalists believe that non-Christian indigenous peoples who’ve never heard of Jesus will just go straight to hell. If God exists and He actually does that, He’s not loving at all!
That is what I was always taught. The excuse for it is that they claim God speaks to everyone even if they have never heard the Bible or the word of God. God supposedly speaks to every person and it is up to each person to accept or not. So, they have no excuse when they go to Hell. My confusion was, the Bible describes that voice as a soft voice. How can a soft voice overcome what they were taught as children or what the majority practices? And if they do hear it, how do they know how to worship it, name it, or describe it?
Yeah, that's the other guy. If exists.
Unless they want to
Interesting thought. If God is loving and just then there is a loving and just solution for those people. What it is, I don’t know. But while I do believe in salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus of Nazareth, I think too many people in the church jump to rash conclusions about topics like what you have brought up. I also think that other people use those unfounded conclusions of church folks to make some weak excuse to think God isn’t actually loving, kind, or just and then use that as a reason to not believe in (but more importantly not submit to) a god they do not fully understand or comprehend.
I also find it sad that he would send perfectly moral people of any belief or lack of belief to hell to be honest. There are many who pray their hearts out to God, read the Bible, and feel, here, and experience nothing. I know believe makes some happy, but I can absolutely understand why many including myself leave.
Glad you're back! And I'd never noticed that when I was a believer. Good lord, I was brainwashed 🤦♀️
Christianity - where a wrongful conviction makes everything right?
Kinda like the elections.
That's the backwards logic of Christianity. And it's been given room over millennia to have it's followers justify anything, even to the point of calling "good evil and evil good". And we know what Isaiah 5:20 states. Or not 😸.
@@CatDaddyGuitar
All priests profess to represent the Lord, or what is the same thing, the Lord God, or Sun of Summer (living God); nothing would induce them to personate Satan, or the same Sun in winter (dead God). This would be blasphemy and an unpardonable sin against the Holy Ghost!
“Woe unto them that call evil (winter) good, and good (summer) evil; that put darkness (6 nights Gen 1) for light (6 days Gen 1), and light for darkness that put bitter (winter) for sweet (summer) and sweet for bitter. Isaiah 5.20.
"I (the Sun) form the light and create darkness; I make peace (summer), and create evil (winter). I, the Lord (Sun) do all these things" (v. 7). Having first created peace (summer) and lastly evil (winter), the Lord sends down rain, for with winter the rainy season begins, from the skies that the seed (winter wheat) just sown may germinate and produce a crop, and through it, salvation (v. 8). Winter having fairly set in, the Lord denounces the cold, blustering and rainy days, calling them "potsherds" a word, says Gesenius, "put for anything mean and contemptible," such as winter was ever esteemed by the suffering poor. Isa 45
It certainly seems reminiscent of two wrongs make a right. Except in Christianity it's multiple wrongs making a right. You have to begin with original sin being inherited vicariously from our ancestors. Then you have a vindictive God who just won't forgive without a human blood sacrifice. Then you get punishment of the one guy who allegedly never did anything wrong... EVER. Then that punishment is transfered, again vicariously as retribution for all of humanity's wrongs. But also the three days of suffering (assuming jesus was in hell) is allowed as penance to offset infinite suffering for each person. BUT then its only for in-group, so not for ALL of our sins. Also, suffering continues and nobody is forgiven in any meaningful way that isn't identical to belivers forgiving themselves via an imaginary friend. Also, the forgiveness is not negotiated from any fellow human victims of the perpetrators wrongdoing, by apology to them, so they get cut out of the retribution deal. The wrongdoer never learns responsibility and finally everything gets 'put right' by the pretentious, self-righteous fantasy of justice that only exists in the head of the Christian.
So it's more like ten wrongs that don't make ANY right.
3 in 1, call it monotheistic, that Christianity right there
I'm so glad you're back and creating your great content again! I can't imagine how difficult it is being one of the public faces of what so many of us are dealing with in the US today. Good for you for taking care of yourself. Your channel plus those of other recovering fundamentalists and critical scholars have helped me get through the deconstruction of my religious upbringing, and I thank you for that. Never doubt that you are making a difference.
Great pickup Koolaid. Let's hope this verse discussion goes viral.
Glad you are back, will make a donation. Hope it helps. As a 'PK', I've been on a journey of what I believe and what i don't. I'm 65 and have been skeptical since i was young, and none of it made sense to me, but I clung to beliefs because it was what I knew, and my family is very Christian. I was raised very middle of the road Methodist Methodist and we didn't take everything in the Bible literally so it was easier for me to question things.
God created humans just so 99.999% of them could go to hell and be punished for eternity. What a loving god.
Yes, 2500000000 / 8000000000 = 0.001%
@@andro6534 8 billion is much less than the actual amount of people who have ever lived, and will ever live.
The original bible didn't have heaven or hell. It's something the Christians added. They probably got the concept from the Greeks
@@kashmm And 2.5 billion is much more than any Christian would claim to be the number of "True Christians (TM)".
@@cemreomerayna463 "But he LOVES you" - George Carlin
I think my currently favorite verse is Deuteronomy 23:2. It basically says anybody descending from a forbidden union won't be let into heaven.
Imagine going to hell because someone, somewhere on your family tree around 1500 years ago, got married in the wrong way. 🤣
Yep! That's kinda unfair in a stupidish sorta way.
See Deuteronomy 32.18, where the talking phallus (rock that begat thee) claims to be the creator.
No one born of a forbidden union may enter the assembly of the Lord. Even to the tenth generation, none of his descendants may enter the assembly of the Lord. Where it does said that this people wont go în heaven?
I don't even know if they had the concept of "going to heaven when you die" when Deuteronomy was written. IIRC, that passage has to do with temple worship or something.
@@davidberar5905,
. . . Assembly of the Lord = Heaven
800 billion planets in the milky Way galaxy alone, but some Earthlings think they're special.
we have consciousness, the rest doesn't , there is something fundamentally separating ourself from this world
@@planteruines5619 Have you been to every one of those 800 billion planets to be able to make that statement?
Lmk when you find intelligent life
@@planteruines5619 I'd love to see the source to backup that statement. The James Webb telescope has already proven that the universe is far bigger that any human has ever thought. However you claim to know with certainty that our planet is the only only to have consciousness. That's a cliam that requires irrefutable evidence to back up.
@@dazzag So far we are the ONLY planet with documented life, and the ONLY species with advanced civilisation is a religious species: homo sapiens. Is this so difficult for atheists to comprehend? it's called empirical evidence, based on inductive reasoning, rendering preliminary conclusions in the balance of probabilities. Or in a simple word "science".
Subscribed, liked, and commented. Please keep doing what you are doing.
Religion has always been useful for power and money.
Not really. The early Christians were literally murdered for their beliefs
In multiple ways
what hasn't? that is the work of people not a book or religion. give credit and blame to who it belongs not to inanimate objects.
And most importantly control...
Ah, the all knowing claming to be all knowing as a subject of human manipulation. If you weren’t controlled, you wouldn’t have internet access right now. The irony is flavorful from the blind that seek self righteous validation. Dunning Kruger effect at its finest.
I always love it when you drop a new video.
well, I initially scoffed at your title.... but I was quite pleasantly surprised! great video!
Thanks! Keep Up the Great Work!
Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
You are providing a needed and valuable service! The big question is: what about all the people who lived before Jesus came on the scene, what happens to them? And all the people who have never heard of Jesus? Religion is so easily shown to be mostly ridiculous.
They will be judged on a fair scale knowing they never heard of Jesus. God isn't trying to scam anyone and judge on unfair merits. He is trying to develop a relationship with us, teach us, and develop us to the next stage of life.
Unlike the implication of this video, Jesus's death on the cross was symbolic for us to see if we will embrace him and give our lives to God the way Jesus gave his life to us.
There's no gotcha in Christianity, it's your choice what to do with the information you have encountered about God and what he hopes for you and your life.
That's something that was thought of early on and Paul addresses it in Romans 2. It's where they get the idea that we all have god's objective morality written on our hearts so everyone knows what right and wrong is. tl;dr you're still fucked because you should've known better
Don't you know?! The Mormons are performing proxy baptisms for all those people.
this was one of the first arguments that made the religion not stick to me, the idea that the old testament god had his chosen people and the promised land and somehow in the new testament with jesus he didn't keep them on board, although he did all the miracles right under their eyes, which kind of proves how underwhelming the real jesus probably was...
@@meowmix4jo
Funny... The Dark God predates YHWH... Humans of the Earth.
Great video! The whole blood sacrifice thing is such a giveaway that this entire theology is from the primitive ideal of blood-magic reigning supreme.
It proved absolutely... nothing
A video from Holy Koolaid on my birthday weekend??? GREAT! FINALLY SOMETHING GOOD
Happy birthday 🎂🥳
Was excited to see new content from you - and it did not disappoint. Great video and food for thought. Thanks!
Glad to see ya back man
I joined your channel, @Holy Koolaid! Great video on forgiveness; I never considered your point of view before. I'm looking forward to more videos. Be well!
Thank you so much. I'm glad to hear you liked that video. It wasn't a particularly popular video, but I thought it was worth sharing that perspective. That said, members like you allow me to cover important topics whether or not they're trendy topics that go viral.
Thank you for this video. I'm learning new things constantly.
Nice and simple presentation.
Great to see you getting back on the saddle Thomas. I hope you've got some much needed rest and are able to get back into the swing of things making content. I've really missed your voice in this space. Your channel was one of the very first things I found at the beginning of my deconversion and it's got a special place in my heart.
Imagine how disappointed you'd be if you thought you were going to be the at the helm of a heavenly army ushering in a new age of liberty and freedom for the Jewish people, and it just turns out you were crucified for being an insurrectionist and there was no big guy upstairs looking out for you.
It'd be enough to make you say "Eloi Eloi Lama Sabachthani"
Hey, I think that's the name of the new drummer for Slipknot
Imagine reading John 18:36
@@fluffysheap
Imagine believing....because the bible told me so...🙄
How are atheists so bad at understanding Christianity. It’s not even hard which makes me wonder if some of yall are willfully misinterpreting the gospel on purpose just to dunk on a strawman. If you want your criticism to stick shouldn’t you at least understand the thing you’re criticizing
as an atheist, it feels like admitting to be a sinner, owning this, is like signing a waiver to given up your chances to go to heaven, they've been bamboozled, they all go to hell...
Great video!
Glad to see you back
The legend returns
He remememebered his password
You think this jibberish is 'legendary'? I would have made this video when I was 10, it is so childish and superficial and simply sets up a straw man. Of course Christ could forgive sins, He is the Eternal Son of God, God from God. He is not just some 'dude'.
He does not dwell in time and space, the Cross transcends time and BTW the thief was forgiven DURING the Crucifixion. Our redemption is not just about the Cross, it's also about Christ's decent into hades and Resurrection.
There is no teaching that God could not forgive sins before the Crucifixion in time and space.
This is such a pathetic argument that it shows the poor guy who made this video is pretty desperate.
More MYTH than "legend".
This was sloppy.
Your God-damn right 😁👍
@@marcokite are you seriously going with the classic "god can do anything" retcon? Lmao. You are coming from the perspective that the bible is completely perfect so no matter what anyone points out or says you will do the necessary mental gymnastics to hold onto that belief
"If you don't sin, Jesus died for nothing." What? Well, I'm doing my part for you, Jesus.
Just to be clear I think it was an athiest that said that. Richard Dawkins I think
And some people that Rasputin fellow was hooked up with in Russia back in the day.
I don't sin, no one does, as it's an evil concept, made up to gaslight people.
Paul literally adresses that exact objection
@@loganmanderfield1162 Please feel free to post a verse or 10 by the mad liar, I'm sure they will be very convincing.
Fantastic! Thank you
I've really missed your videos. They're mind-blowing in the best way
Wow we did this passage TODAY in church, and this concept of forgiveness without the requirement of vicarious redemption NEVER occurred to me. Ouch! Plenty of other instances of this in gospels.
He had to die and rise again so we could be sure he was not a fake.
Woo! Kool-Aid is back!
Oh Yeah!
Thanks for the insight.
Appreciate ya. Thanks for sharing.
"The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing..." (1 Corinthians 18:31)
Praise God that he forgives and heals foolessness if that is what the fool wants.
The Bible verse you've provided is actually taken a bit out of context. The book of 1 Corinthians was written to the church in Corinth and is dealing with a specific issue they were having with people who were not accepting the message of Christianity.
The message of the cross, the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ, is considered foolishness by some because it goes against the natural ways of the world. However, to those who are being saved, it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18-23)
Vicarious redemption
"Do you believe Jesus died for our sins? What does 'Jesus died for our sins' even mean? What would have been the consequences if he hadn't? If original sin caused suffering and death, and Jesus died to pay for our sins, then what is the point of eternal payment for sins in Hell?
Do you believe that Maui tried to give humans immortality by turning into a worm and crawling up Hine-nui-te-pō's (goddess of death) vagina but being crushed by her vaginal obsidian teeth?
Do you believe that Prometheus let an eagle eat his liver every day so that we could have fire?
If Jesus was able to forgive sins by just saying they were forgiven why did he need to die on a cross to forgive them (Luke 5:20)? When did Jesus say that he was dying to atone for sins?
Which Old Testament scriptures support the notion that sins are forgiven by the atoning death of the Messiah (Luke 24:45-47)? How could Jesus die for sins of others if 'every man shall be put to death for his own sin' (Deuteronomy 24:16) and the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father (Ezekiel 18:20)?
Why couldn't an omnipotent god forgive the sins of humanity without anyone being executed?
If whether we spend eternity with or apart from Yahweh depends on how we exercise our free will, then what was the point of Jesus dying? If Jesus died for our sins, what difference does it make how we exercise our free will? If this is up to Yahweh and Yahweh loves us, then why didn't Yahweh just admit everyone into Heaven straight away without Jesus or anyone dying? If it is not up to us and not up to Yahweh, then what is it up to? Who created Hell?
How exactly does one person dying have anything to do with the sins committed by other people? Do you think that the ancient Israelite practice of sending a live (scape)goat into the wilderness to die had some effect on anyone's sins? Do you think that the annual slaughter at Hajj of hundreds of thousands of animals by Muslims is effective in bringing the participants closer to Allah? Does the slaughter of animals in the annual Hindu Gadhimai festival make wishes come true? Do you think that Jesus dying on a cross had some effect on anyone's sins?
Do you think that the human sacrifices of the Aztecs were effective in appeasing their gods? Do you think that the human sacrifice of Jesus (Hebrews 9:22, Hebrews 10:10), the convenant transgressors (Joshua 7:15), pagan priests (2 Kings 23:20 ), or thirty-two Midianites (Numbers 31:28-40) was effective in appeasing your god?
How does a system of vicarious redemption promote moral accountability? Should people be allowed to substitute themselves for convicted murderers on death row?
If Jesus died to pay for our sins, then exactly whom did he pay? And how did the recipient of this payment benefit from this payment?
If Jesus could work miracles and could have saved himself from crucifixion, and therefore went through with the crucifixion voluntarily, how can he be classed among actual victims whose suffering is not voluntary?
If the fair price to pay for sin is eternal conscious torment in Hell, and if Jesus paid for our sins, shouldn't Jesus be suffering eternal conscious torment in Hell?
If Jesus paid for our sins at the cross as a sacrifice, why will temple sacrifices start again during the millennial reign of Jesus?
Is it virtuous for Yahweh to sacrifice itself to itself to appease itself in order to save us from itself? Is it virtuous for a soldier to throw himself on a grenade whose pin he pulled himself?
How was Jesus's death a 'sacrifice' for Yahweh if Yahweh can do anything and Jesus didn't stay dead and is now with Yahweh, who is also Jesus? How is it possible for Yahweh to permanently lose (sacrifice) anything? If Jesus came from and then went back to Heaven, wouldn't his 33 years on Earth be the real suffering and his six hours on the cross be a trivial and welcome exit method?"
Click to copy and share: www.stopindoctrination.org/#vicarious-redemption
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TORAH DOES NOT SUPPORT HUMAN SACRIFICE!!!! THAT IS A NEW TESTAMENT TEACHING, STOP IMPOSING ON TEXT!
and why dose doing MORE SIN remove and forgive sin? i have read "sin" is atualy "sin/cosin" or "sine and cosine" (the moon) in which the god of the moon one the names is "sin" kill innocent jesus? isent that SIN/evil? offing innocent animals? isent that SIN/evil? i wonder if these animal sacrafices, were to satan but peaople thught it was god?
Really helpful discussion for me while I'm deconstructing - much appreciated
Great video!!❤
Wow, hello again, Thomas!
My former Xian self wouldn't have bought this argument. I would've said that Jesus' sacrificial death reached both forward and backward in time. The paralytic's sins were forgiven because of it even though it hadn't happened yet in linear time.
Still completely bogus, but at the time I would have had a response that I found theologically consistent.
Jesus, the sun, is crucified twice, first at the autumn equinox (Egypt) and again at Calvary (spring equinox).
Yes, but the individual didn't have to believe it happened (impossible - since it was in the future) to be forgiven. So Yhwh can indeed just forgive everyone and not have it conditional on some sort of ritual (belief, baptism, repenting, etc).
What caused you to leave the faith then?
@@baxterwilliams2170 The cumulative failure of Christianity to hold up to scrutiny from any quarter: archaeology, textual criticism, science, common sense. The main problem for me was the hiddenness of God, but it wasn't at all the only problem.
@@david_deboehe isnt hidden at all go outside.
I never even thought of that one. Thanks.
Thank you for the work.
It should be worth noting that when God created Adam and Eve, he regretted he made humanity, NOT his own regret, but a regret for the pain and torment humanity would experience forever.
You may then ask "how can God regret? I thought he was all knowing and powerful"
Humanity was created in HOPE. This comes down to our free will. There was bad and evil, and God foresaw Eve could eat the apple and foresaw Satan could rebel, but it was the HOPE factor and free will that led him to continue it.
Which brings me to why Jesus was sent. Jesus was sent to make up for God's "mistake" here. Jesus was sent to be an example to all people, and he didn't die in a literal sense as a gateway to heaven, else it'd be contradictory for our Bible to tell us to not sin, in which case, why not just go slaughter people? Jesus will forgive you anyways...
My point is that Jesus died in a symbolic way, NOT as a direct gateway for all humans to heaven, and his death raised a following of 2.5 billion people that has shaped history. Hope this cleared up some stuff for you.
Also for the end bit:
What the churches do in 2024 is outright corruption and most Christians dont follow their wicked standards and traditions, and also, the Bible isnt Gods direct word. Its the word inspired by God, which means you need to be able to look at the Bible seriously without looking at it in a literal sense
As a former Christian, I'm pretty sure how Christians would respond here. The story goes that Jesus' death didn't just save people at the time of his death and thence after, but that supposed event retroactively saved those prior to the cross because of their faith in a coming Messiah. So the paralytic in the story believed in Jesus' ability to save him. But Jesus didn't arbitrarily forgive him then, but did so *on the basis of what he was going to do* (i.e., die on the cross for the sins of the world). See Romans 4:18-25, for example. So, God is still bloodthirsty.
And then there's the the question of the people BEFORE the Hebrews... Since nobody had heard of a Messiah or Monotheism much, for that matter.
Indeed. Christians would simply say God was more merciful back then and allowed people with little to no knowledge of Christ to be saved simply by trusting in God, "as seen in creation." The story was aparently revealed progressively. So God saved based on one's level of revelation. We now who have a more full explanation of things are required to believe in Christ (Acts 17:30). It's definitely reaching.
@@timfelten3305 yes, and "as seen in creation" could be interpreted (and is) as some other god than the Christian one. Vague apologetics.
Yep! It's definitely a slippery slope.
@@timfelten3305 you forgot, they can't explain trinity without committing a single heresy
Brilliant! Among your best content, thank-you. Sharing.
I've missed your content but totally understand.
good catch
Glad to have you back.
I would have made this video when I was 10, it is so childish and superficial and simply sets up a straw man. Of course Christ could forgive sins, He is the Eternal Son of God, God from God. He is not just some 'dude'.
He does not dwell in time and space, the Cross transcends time and BTW the thief was forgiven DURING the Crucifixion. Our redemption is not just about the Cross, it's also about Christ's decent into hades and Resurrection.
There is no teaching that God could not forgive sins before the Crucifixion in time and space.
This is such a pathetic argument that it shows the poor guy who made this video is pretty desperate.
If God is a God of love, then why should we fear him.
But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!
Luke 12:5
because the fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom... and God chose the foolish to be saved, and the fool in his heart has said there is no God... see Atheists are the only ones to be saved in the end!
@@jiohdi
1/ Absurd Stone Age and Bronze Age threats don't cut it any more in 2024. Sorry.
2/ Why would anyone fear a supposedly 'loving' and 'forgiving' thing unless there was actually something to fear, namely being tortured for all eternity?
3/ The god of the bible is a child-abuser and torturer which makes terrorist threats to its own supposed 'children' according to the book it supposedly 'inspired' about itself!
4/ Not for me, thanks.
It is not the fear of murderer of maniac, it is like a fear of father. Of course we are all fear our fathers, because they have some sort of power in our family. But, you know, it is more like fear of disappointing him. The same is with God. Everything is about growth over the sin. And God will forgive our mistakes, the intention is important. If you deny God, and prefer permanent death in the Hell, it is also your choice. But it is much better to live in connection with God. Try to pray with all your heart warmth, like you are talking with your Father, who created everything and who can understand why did you sin. Talk with him and feel something.God bless you.
@@Sanchellios
1/ Please be the first and demonstrate that any god thing, including whatever you think your god is, has ever existed at any time in human history before asking people to speak to it. Where is your god located?
3/ Then please demonstrate that a torture chamber called hell has ever existed in human history. Where is hell located?
What you pointed out is very beautiful and important. Thank You 🙏
well done ,thanks
This was spot on Thomas! ❤
There actually nothing it can destroy Christianity but atheism and the emptiness you believe on will be over soon
Great video. I'm sure there is already a xtian thinking: nu-uh...
Thank you. Awesome video.
This surprised me, thank you!
I love how he reminds the audience that there were MANY so-called Jewish "Prophets" around the SAME TIME as Jesus, and explains what the Jewish messiah was ACTUALLY SUPPOSED to do, which is a great reason for Jewish people to NOT believe the Messiah has come yet (there is no "messiah" of course, and Judaism is not more real than Christianity). ALSO he explains WHY there were so many prophets. Excellent video 😊
Judaism is more real than Christianity...
And unicorns are more real than dragons.😉
@@steakknives We *do* have komodo dragons...
I found it stupidly interesting when I first saw a painting of "St. George and the dragon" and how ridiculously small the "dragon" was. Even ol' George's horse was small (in religious paintings of the time, the "important" figure was the largest... because that person was, you know, "important"). Aside from the fact that the "dragon" looked like it was pieced together from various other critters, I don't think ol' St. George would've stood a chance against, say, Smaug from "The Hobbit". One whack with his tail and St. George would've been canned Spam. 😆
@@steakknives Typing error. I meant to write that Judaism is NOT more real than Christianity.
Technically Judaism is "more real than Christianity", since the statement "I have a pet dragon" is less false than the statement "I have 3 pet dragons who can calculate my taxes and they ate the president once"
And lets not forget Jesus gave false promises and prophecies which goes against Deuteronomy 18:20-22.
An even better example of how Yahweh didn't need a blood sacrifice to forgive sin is in Leviticus 5:11-13. Basically says if you can't afford meat, bring flour to the priest and your sins will be forgiven.
But if he cannot afford two turtledoves or two young pigeons, he may bring a tenth of an ephah of fine floura as a sin offering. He must not put olive oil or frankincense on it, because it is a sin offering. 12He is to bring it to the priest, who shall take a handful from it as a memorial portion and burn it on the altar atop the offerings made by fire to the LORD; it is a sin offering. 13In this way the priest will make atonement for him for any of these sins he has committed, and he will be forgiven. The remainder will belong to the priest, like the grain offering.” [Leviticus 5:11-13]
Yahweh didn't need Jesus to sacrifice... the Pillsbury Dough Boy would have been enough...
These passages are talking about transgressions against the old covenant not sins against God
@@bignoob1790 Exactly. They are talking about the EXACT same thing. What is a sin against Yahweh other than breaking the commandments that Yahweh gave in his bible.
@andytraiger4079
I'm curious why atheists like calling God Yahweh?
Didn't even know that name until I discovered darkmater 2525
So the covenant with Isreal had to do with the nation of Isreal, and physical blessings, ie the promised land, etc
Not necessarily with salvation,
That's also why Christians are not bound by the old testament law
Covenant theology is a deep subject if your interested in the topic.
@@bignoob1790 Yahweh is a character in a book made to control sheep. He is no more a god than any of the other thousands of gods created by people all over the world and throughout the ages. The only reason you think Yahweh is god is because you haven't studied the bible close enough. Most people who study theology in University realize the bible is an entirely man-made book of propaganda that has so many deep flaws it would be blasphemy to pretend an all-knowing god had anything to do with its production. A god's book would and should be far more convincing and would not contain deep moral flaws and contradictions. The guys preaching the bible know it's a lie; but they do it because there's good money in it, there's power in it, and they think the masses benefit from believing theology.
@@bignoob1790 And according to Paul, redemption from the Old Covenant comes through the sacrifice of Jesus.
So... again, Pillsbury Dough Boy.
Glad you're back! Go you! 🎉
I hadn't seen much from you recently, but I'm glad you're back. Or that TH-cam is letting me know when you have new content.
Having McClellan in video, pure gold!
LOVE McClellan and Holy Kool Aid! My favorites!
"You have not brought me sheep for burnt offerings, nor honored me with your sacrifices. I have not burdened you with grain offerings nor wearied you with demands for incense. You have not bought any fragrant calamus for me, or lavished on me the fat of your sacrifices. But you have burdened me with your sins and wearied me with your offenses. Yet, it is I who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more."
That just makes me think of some fatass rich guy laying on a fancy couch pissed at some servant because he didn't put enough paper umbrellas in his foo-foo drink.
😅🤣😅🤣😅🤣😅🤣😂🤡
And
And it's more proof that God is able to forgive sins without a blood sacrifice
What's that from? It was beautiful
Subscribing!! Thank you for telling the truth!
I'm glad you're back! ❤ Great content!
"... healthcare, well, forget about it." So, much like the US today then?
Times never change with religion
Lots of Christians reject penal substitutionary atonement. In fact, for the first millennium, it was not common at all. Saying that it's universally accepted is not accurate.
@@tylerl1892 There is more to Christianity than American Protestantism (Baptist, Pentecostal, Churches of Christ are all very similar in their ideas of atonement). Did you attend Orthodox or Catholic churches, or only several varieties of Protestantism?
@@himbo754 Curious why you ask, since as far as I know, the Catholic and/or Orthodox churches have the same view of Jesus sacrifice as Protestants. Don't they?
@@phillipschuman4307 No. Western churches (Roman catholic and protestant) follow some variation of "satisfaction theory" discussed in this video. Satisfaction theory is attributed to Anselm of Canterbury, a Roman catholic bishop who lived in the 11th century. The Orthodox Church does not hold this view.
Why would they reject it when it’s clearly spelled out in the New Testament? The, “lamb of God”. The sacrificial lamb. The sacrifice that Israelites were required to give to God for various things… How do they get around it?
@@tiffanyh1274 do a little more research and get back to me.
Thanks!
That Jesus walking on water 🤣👍🤟
Jesus be jesus'n lmao 😂😂😂😂
I think Christuans would argue, that it was easy for Jesus to forgive sins, because he knew he would give his life for all humankind.
But yes, a very good point, that it was easy for Jesus to forgive sins... even before his death.
Christians/the bible claim that we are made in the image of God. And we are commanded to forgive. So we - as fallible human beings are ordered to forgive, but the almighty, all powerful and all loving infallible God needs blood for it... That's so gross. There are many examples in the bible where God doesn't forgive.
_"There are many examples in the bible where God doesn't forgive."_
God punishes children for things that their fathers, grandfathers, great-grandfathers, and great-great grandfathers did. He is so proud of this that he repeated it four times in the Bible-
"I, the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."
(Exodus 20:5 , Deuteronomy 5:9)
"Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children unto the third and to the fourth generation."
(Exodus 34:7)
"Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."
(Numbers 14:18)
If you fail to follow all of God's commandments, God will curse your children-
"If thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day ... Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body."
(Deuteronomy 28:15-18)
And sometimes God slaughters children for the unspecified sins of their fathers-
"Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers."
(Isaiah 14:21)
@twitherspoon8954 yes exactly. Thanks for sharing! Most Christians I know don't even read the OT....
The cost of forgiveness depends on the hurt done. in the case of Jesus, he forgave all of humanity the damage we have done and the hurts we have caused from the time that man became man to the end of our history. That is huge. When I forgive, I forgive the small, small hurts I have receive.
The blood of Jesus is a picture or token of the cost of our sin. The full cost is much greater. And because it is born by the eternal Son of God the cost had no beginning nor will it have an end. It is always present just as time for God is always present.
@twitherspoon8954
There's a reason the Isrealites worship on Saturday
And Christians on Sunday
We are commanded to forgive because God forgives us, both in the Old Testament (in anticipation of the Crucifixion) and in the New Testament.
And the blood sacrifice is His own blood.
Jesus didn't die for our sins. He just had a bad weekend.
Then how are your sins forgiven?
@@davidlafleche1142 When I was Jewish I believed that you had to ask God directly to forgive you. (No guarantees that you got forgiven.) This was done on Yom Kippur, the day of atonement,the holiest of the holy days. It was a day of praying , fasting and self reflection. Now that I don't so much believe in "sin" anymore but we still do bad stuff, at least I do, occasionally, but I think it's best to try not to do bad stuff and to forgive yourself for messing up and try to make amends when possible. Now that I think abut it I wonder what Jesus, who never sinned, did on Yom Kippur? He was Jewish so he would have celebrated it.
@@nunyabiznazz2210 The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
@@davidlafleche1142 When you're not religious you don't have to make it right with a God you don't believe in. You do your best to make it right with those you've wronged and yourself. If you do the crime you do the time, there is no "get out of jail free" card, and I think though, it may be less pleasant, it is more fair.
@@davidlafleche1142
Who said there are sins?
Who said they need to be "forgiven"?
What does "forgiven" even mean?
Etc.
Currently you are simply regurgitating what you have have been indoctrinated with in the context of a form of entertainment
Even as a child the argument about Jesus buying for our sins made no sense to me
he got them cheap too, only parts of 3 days out of eternity... some sacrifice?
Right? I remember being around 6 years old. My parent’s friends thought it would give my mom a break if they took me to church with them for a few hours while my dad was at work since she also had 2 year old twins to deal with that the time. I was sitting in Sunday School hearing this story for the first time. The idea of having to have someone tortured and killed just so you could forgive someone else was terrifying. I remember thinking, “Who would my parents torture and kill in order to forgive me if I did something bad?” And my first concern was my twin brothers.
So, when I got home I asked my mom who they would kill if I was bad. She was furious that she had to explain that no one was going to die if I did something bad. 🤣🤣🤣
It’s heartbreaking to think of the mental torture these poor indoctrinated kids go through when they are literally told not to question the Bible or their God and just to believe it or they’ll be burning in fire for all eternity.
Would a just judge let Hilter go free? No, not one just judge would let him go free. God is the same way. The only difference is that Jesus can pay your fines, and if you accept him, you can go to heaven. If you have any questions, just ask and I am free to answer
Well doesn't make you look that bright rhen.
@@Biblereader919 Hold on here. Would a loving and just God have created Hitler in the first place, knowing exactly what he was going to do? The answer is no. God could’ve look at what Hitler was going to do and simply chose to not create him. So, God was certainly not concerned with what Hitler was going to do to HIS people (Jesus lived and died a Jew) and must have wanted them to be treated that way because he knew what was going to take place and watched it all happen.
DO NOT come at me with that “free will” BS! Unless you’re prepared to 1. Tell me the passage in the Bible that says we have free will. Good luck with that. I studied the Bible for 6 of my 8 years in College and there is absolutely nothing that says anything of the sort. We don’t even have the free will to not believe in God, let alone run about doing whatever we want because that would most certainly mess up Hod’s Devine Plan. Jeremiah 29:11 - “For I know the plans I have for you,” So, declares the LORD. 2. Explain why God was so willing to interfere with RAMESSES’ free will when they Bible clearly states that he was the one who interfered with Ramesses free will by “hardening his heart”, thereby preventing Ramesses from releasing the Hebrews when he was going to, just so God would have an excuse to torture the innocent children and animals of Egypt and if God can interfere with someone’s free will to send plagues he most certainly could’ve interfered with the free will of someone’s free will if they were doing something he had not planed to happen.
My advice is that you actually read the Bible before you go making yourself look foolish by defending the god you worship by making a lame attempt at minimizing the vile, evil and repugnant things he allowed to happen or actually did himself. He was proud of the disgusting things he did. So proud that he chose to have them written down so everyone ever born would know about them , so it seems quite blasphemous to negate the horrors he’s so proud of simply because his actions don’t align with your moral compass.
Not to mention that the people who "sacrificed" Jesus wanted to be rid of him. That's not a sacrifice, that's just housecleaning.
And they wanted to get rid of him because he was walking around calling himself King when there was already an emperor not because he was “spreading love”, it was treason.
He was the figurehead of a rebel cult.
Then a new emperor adopted his ways and made Christianity the official state religion, the empire crumbled within a 2 generations.
Sounds a little too familiar.
What you said makes zero sense. The Romans who put him up there weren't trying to "Sacrifice" him. It was God's plan. God knew Jesus would be killed.
If that was all that was going on.
@@Sanctifying Of course he did. For part of a weekend. Again, not a sacrifice. And actually I was thinking more the Jews than the Romans. But if you wanna say that your god found a way to "kill" Jesus without getting His Own Hands bloody, well, how gangster of him.
People hiding in the dark don't like it when the sun shines on them
How is this possible? There were groups that were random and a book was compiled to please them all so Constantine could have an economic, military, and political bloc.
The books were not Random. They were all in reference to the Same Higher Power
@@FLOTILLA4852
Indeed! Within your imagination. 😳
@@FLOTILLA4852
Please show us where he said the books were random!
@@eugeneoisten9409 learn to read. I said groups were random, not books.i said a book was made to accommodate all of them. Many early so-called Christian groups were wildly divergent, seemingly random in belief. Not all had books. Not all had consistent takes on what literature some held in common.
I think it's mainly the apostel Paul who constructed christianity, and Greek was the common language of the Roman empire, Baal became almost synonym for the devil, he was the god of the common enemy of both the Romans (Carthage) and the Hebrews (Phenicia)... the apostel Paul was a sociopath, persecuted rebels, traitor to his people, tool for the Roman empire... in any case when the Roman empire adopted christianity as state religion, they decided what the New Testament would contain. The Roman empire had a policy of blending their own religion with that of important religions from conquered nations
God turned their back on Jesus. Jesus even had to ask why.
He was quoting scripture
I've felt like that before,
God turned his back on Jesus because sin was put onto his account, and God can't look at sin. Jesus understood what was happening.
@@mouthpiece200 Then why did He care what Satan thought of Job? Or any opinions Satan could ever have, or his ever being near the assembly of heaven again?
Also, is His being unable to look upon sin why He could not look at the Western slave trade, very often?
Or needed to ask who had hidden Jericho loot? And so instead threatened the whole Hebrew army first?
He was singing Psalms 22. Psalms 22 begins: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" which Jesus directly quotes, and the chapter ends: "They will proclaim his righteousness, declaring to a people yet unborn: He has done it!" which Jesus alludes to with his last words: "It is done."
I love your videos, and I know they are scripted, however, sometimes it would be good if you could slow down with the speech just a little bit.
I like it when I have a second to process and verbally imbibe what the speaker is saying.
- Peace
If he doesn't comply with your suggestion, you can always play the video at a slightly slower speed.
i feel like this is one of those logical loops that makes zero sense but true believers will make absolutely no attempt to acknowledge anyways
It’s about choice. Christ did the work but it’s our job to accept it
WELCOME BACK!!!! i must admit i am a christian, but your channel has been incredibly instrumental in helping me deconstruct my faith and come to terms with myself as a person, especially helping to deradicalize me during a period of bad delusional episodes. i don’t always agree with everyone on everything, but i do believe my faith is my business, and i don’t subscribe to organized religion anymore.
its been sied, they TRICK peaople to worship the DEAD X_X christ on the cross, while they make them NEVER KNOW the LIVING 0_0 christ within!
Good to see you back.
The idea of substitutional atonement is a western Christianity idea not shared by Eastern Orthodoxy and other Eastern brands of Christianity. They see sin in metaphysical terms rather than in judicial terms and consequently fucus more on being raised with Christ through his resurrection, rather Christ dying as a substitute for our sin.
It's still a stupid concept.
God forced people into existence and they are victims of being created in the flawed and fallible way that god created them and the flawed and fallible way that god created them is their fault that god forced them into existence and created them that way.
Yeah, the way that I created you is your fault. How dare you be the way that I created you.
Nobody has responded to your excellent comments, What a surprise.
@@garythompson9452 If you or anybody else is worried, don't worry, because I forgive you for being the flawed and fallible way that god created you. lol
@@garythompson9452 If you're worried, don't worry because I forgive you for being the victim of being the flawed and fallible way that god created you.
The question of how the most loving entity would purposely bring people into existence knowing the risk makes no sense and I've never heard a good argument.. The Bible teaches God wants Glory and suggest people in hell achieves this so it's somehow a good thing lol. It be like me having children knowing that I'm going to have to punish them and give them never ending pain and still deciding to have children in the first place when I didn't have to.
I want all of you to get down on your hands and knees with your rumps up high so god knows that you're submissive and are willing to take whatever gods got coming to you for being the victims of being the flawed and fallible way that god created you.
Good catch. I never caught this before.
Welcome back!!! I just had to click when I saw this new video!!!
Fighting a tsunami with a spoon. Yeah that is how I feel when dealing with Trumpers.
Good.
This video demonstrates a great lack of understanding of forgiveness.
When you refuse to forgive others, you're essentially refusing your own healing. You have to fogive others IN ORDER TO HEAL.... it's called "letting go of unnecessary suffering".
So how can God heal you and provide you with forgiveness IF YOU REFUSE IT??
Relationships are 2-way streets, not a 1 way street, and that applies to forgiveness.
Calling it 'mental gymnastics' a fancy way of saying you don't understand something.
I thought my algorithm had changed because I had not seen you in a while. Good to have you back.
1:53 "If you don't sin, Jeezus died for nothing". Lol, good slogan for Vegas, even better for Mammon worshipping #ChINO #CONservatives.
5:05 damn, Jesus got some big ol' pants!
Drip? I guess
good to see you back
Just discovered your channel - new subscriber!
Uhh... You got it backwards @ 4:20 - He forgives the sins (and the crowd is like... Ok, did you actually do anything - he's still paralyzed? Lol!), and he says "What're you guys laughing about? Which do you think is easier? Forgiving eternal sins, or healing physical ailments? But, to help prove that I can do the former, I'll do the EASY trick of doing the latter."
Anyway, this video makes a really good point. Jesus could forgive sins without blood sacrifices, so why can't Yhwh?
In Jonah YHWH forgives Nineveh without any sacrifice
@@tomasrocha6139 Great! YHWH can do it too! So the basis of Christianity ("blood sacrifice is necessary for YHWH to forgive") is completely incoherent.
Cause it’s just mythology
@@philojudaeusofalexandria9556 This is in no way the basis of Christianity. Satisfaction theology is one of numerous schools of thought on the purpose of the crucifixion. Like, seriously, there's at least 7 commonly accepted schools of thought.
People convince (or try to convince) other people of their theology. God could easily clear it all up if it wanted but instead plays hide and seek as people of differing faiths condemn each other to hell. Genius.
Yeah i just cant believe in Christianity after the incompetence vs evil & knowing god apparently had foreknowledge
And the different varieties of Christianity & how basically how the whole world is confused like
Why would there be so many different interpretions on the bible if it's supposed to be god's perfect word or something
I thought god wanted ppl to go to heaven and not sin but at this point--
The same thing happens with politics and about everything else
Just the human condition
Keep up the good work 👏
More of this short form format ❤
A lot of verses undermine Christianity. Like the one that says if your dad was bad you go to Hell forever. Or the sentence that says all women go to Hell and may ONLY be saved through childbearing and nothing else. Or the chapter where every part of you is explicitly designed by God so every action you do is exactly as he planned, meaning he literally made you for the purpose of torturing you for all eternity if you go to Hell. Or just where it says God made Hell. A god cannot make Hell and stay benevolent since that place is infinitely evil. Or the chapter where it says spending 1 minute in Hell is worse than having never existed. Etc etc etc.
That’s not what the verse says
@@lovespeaks777 "The verse". Gotta be more specific.
@@rogantuIf your dad was bad, you’ll go to hell forever.
Jesus: the story of god becoming man to sacrifice himself to himself to save his creation from his own wrath for being exactly how he created it.
Brilliant summation 😂🤣👍
Exactly! Thank you!
Without a choice to go against God's plan, does love really exist?
Your comment implies that the wrath of God is arbitrary or by whim, which would be true if God changed the definition of sin every time, like a tyrant changes his own laws by whim. It also implies that he created puppets and not humans with free will. So your criticism is nonsensical, it's like saying that the State created the Police to save people from the State.
@@fben-ic2ksExcept the State didn’t create people with an instinctual bias toward breaking the laws the state put into place. Also the state doesn’t punish innocent people for the crimes of the guilty. But that was a good effort at making it all sound normal and common place.
When God asks us to forgive others, we are absorbing the justice due to them back on ourselves. Literally, turning the other cheek just means we are accepting what is rightfully theirs and we are suffering in their place. That's exactly what God did on the cross.
Amen, they think their comments deny years of theological studies
Finding contradictions in the bible is like finding shells on a sea shore, hardly suprising.
You’re back!🎉🎉🎉
I can't understand how anyone believes unseen, unknowable nonsense just because some moldy old book says so. There are LOTS of moldy old religious texts. And they ALL more or less state they are true.
500yrs from now when everything is 100% digital a Harry Potter or Superman book will be found and the whole process will kick in again on humanity.
It will work because no one from now (2024) will be around to say the books were fictional.😂
Bruh. In my opinion you won "The dumbest comment of the day" award. But wait! Does my opinion exist!?!?!?! I never saw my opinion, but one moldy book says that I have free will.
If these 2 phrases are all you know to say about theology, then you're not even worth a second of my time, but I'll assume you know more than that so I ask you do debate me.
It's because, generally, they are indoctrinated since a young age
Unless the God of this "old book" answers back...
Maybe, just maybe some guys figured out that people back then thought shiny sky diamonds were deities and created the longest running scam known to man, religion.
All you have to do is say that the shiny sky diamond will be angry with you if you don’t worship it. The unintelligent will be scared. But don’t worry. If you give shiny money disc to anointed holy man, shiny sky diamond will forgive you. But only until next week Sunday because we need recurring income.
I just watched a Godless Granny video that showed that God, via the "problem of evil" quandry, is living a sinful lifestyle as he can stop the evil, but chooses not to - with a scriptural verse that failing to do the right thing if you know what it is is a sin. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, this applies. God is sinful.
"With great power comes great responsibility" isn't just a saying from Spider-Man. The more powerful you are, the more responsibility you possess. Therefore, if you're all-powerful, you have all the responsibility in the universe. Everything bad that happens in the universe is ultimately his fault, especially if he refuses to do anything about it when he can.
Being omniscient God can see the greater picture
@@bignoob1790: What you're saying, I think, is that there is some reason that Yahweh knows, that we don't, that not preventing rape and torture is actually a good thing. Maybe, but I think it seems unlikely, and we could apply this line of thinking to anything. Common wisdom would have it that skyscrapers should meet some safety standards. But maybe there's some reason that Yahweh knows, that we don't, that this isn't actually the case. Common wisdom would have it that it's a good idea to refrain from driving if you've been drinking. But maybe there's some reason that Yahweh knows, that we don't, that this isn't actually the case. Common wisdom would have it that you shouldn't run down stairs while holding scissors pointing at your face. But maybe there's some reason that Yahweh knows, that we don't, that this isn't actually the case. Maybe, but I doubt it.
@jamesc3505
Somebody had to go to the emergency room with a major scizor injury before it became common wisdom, and a skyscraper had to fall before safety standards became common wisdom,
I thank the most high that we have the ability to learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of those who came before us,
I also thank the men and women who came before us and set up systems to abolish torture, punish/reform bad people and find ways to reconcile and restore peace to the victims.
@@bignoob1790 Many regulations are written in blood - people got injured or killed before the regulation was put in place.
People can learn from our mistakes, but often we don't. That's why we've had war after "The War that Ended All Wars" (World War 1), why we still have torture, and why victims still have mental and emotional issues years after. We have regulations of many things, but when those requirements are ignored, they don't work. We've built on prior knowledge: We knew the strength of (for instance) steel before the first skyscraper was built, we knew what sorts of stresses would be put on it, and put in requirements for such before building the first skyscraper. That's why it didn't just fall down, making for numerous very-expensive boondoggles.