I never understood that aspect of Christianity. God tells us we have to forgive others even if they don't ask for it but he can't forgive us unless there's a sacrifice in our behalf.
The reason we're to forgive others without them asking for it is different from the ideaof God forgiving us through a sacrifice. We're to forgive because it frees us from the mental and possible physical problems that come from holding on to things mentally. The forgiveness involving a sacrifice involves us being forgiven with the knowledge that there is a penalty for the "crime" which cannot be dealt with without payment which would bring us to regret the crime (or sin) and have a mindset of changing mentally.
@@phunter24 Great explanation! I might cite you :P Do you take any issue though with the idea that we're to ask for forgiveness from debts AS WE forgive our debtors while GOD YHWH still requires death? I know this goes into divine justice and all but it seems muddy to think BOTH Jesus fulfilled the will of God, yet only God required Jesus to die for sin. Jesus teachings taken alone with surrounding mysticism makes sense and universalizes with the idea of One or The All found in all religions (that are coherent). But with the idea like atonement and penal sub...it gets again, muddy.
It's because the god stuff is badly veiled blood magic, while the forgive each other stuff is trying to get along with each other without the badly veiled blood magic crap.
The only way it makes sense to me is that a super duper entity forgiving even the worst things we do means forgiveness is always possible. But people can forgive, or not, without such a notion. It is tied into the "how can you expect to be forgiven (for whatever your transgressions) if you don't forgive?" A nice idea I suppose, but psychology isn't so neat and tidy.
Everyone is guilty of sin. I knew a vicar once; one day, he told me he had his push bike stolen. What shall I do? I said, on Sunday, during the Semon, read out the Ten Commandments, and when you come to, you shall not steal. You should look around and see if someone is looking guilty? I saw him the next day and asked him how it went.? He said I started to read out the Ten Commandments, when I said you shall not commit adultery I remembered where I left my bike. Thanks for another great video.
@@kenharris5390 sin is defined as an affront to God and includes things like tattoos and Blended fabrics. And if you ever dust off your Old Testament and actually read it, turn one page past the Ten Commandments and that's where you find all the slavery Commandments
I joined your channel, @Holy Koolaid! Great video on forgiveness; I never considered your point of view before. I'm looking forward to more videos. Be well!
Thank you so much. I'm glad to hear you liked that video. It wasn't a particularly popular video, but I thought it was worth sharing that perspective. That said, members like you allow me to cover important topics whether or not they're trendy topics that go viral.
Ah, the all knowing claming to be all knowing as a subject of human manipulation. If you weren’t controlled, you wouldn’t have internet access right now. The irony is flavorful from the blind that seek self righteous validation. Dunning Kruger effect at its finest.
Me too. I think my second wife was the only person I really ever knew that was not full of shit. And she died of cancer three years ago, that’s why I know there’s no freaking God. Otherwise IT would’ve taken me; I’d be the logical one to die early after smoking, drinking every day for 40+ years… Don’t give me weren’t wrong I wouldn’t change anything but I also love cannabis. However it’s screwed up my lungs now and I have to live without her and she was the only thing that really… I wanted to live for in life. Now she’s gone and I’m pissed!
@@davidthompson7817 I hear you, bro. Stay pissed, and turn that anger to something productive. So many people out there need help. So many truths need to be defended. So much shit needs to be exposed.
Yo, I used to be a serious Christian who knew these stories inside out, and I lost faith/became agnostic a few months ago (started doubting 10 months ago), and I also decided like 6 years ago not to shy away from any questions or doubts I had. HOW DID I NOT REALIZE THIS
@@markoulton3342 Is it really critical thinking to misunderstand a simple bible verse? I'm all for critical thinking, logic, science, evidence. But using "critical thinking" as an excuse for misunderstanding a recorded account and twisting a supposed theology around that misunderstanding? That's just ignorance and denial. I would not trust this channel to give me the time of day.
@@thischristian8317 My comment had nothing to do with the content of this video and everything to do with what claire-tk4do said. That should've been obvious as I posted under her comment. Personally, I don't find this video very compelling or interesting. I already had more than enough reasons to reject Christianity and religion in general long ago. After 6 decades, I'm more certain of that than ever. BTW, critical thinking is how you learn to think for yourself and not be a sheep in someone's flock. It's how you separate the wheat from the chaff concerning knowledge. Here's something I've learned, never debate religion or the existence of a god with a believer. It's a waste of time. Why? Because faith requires no proof. You don't question, you just accept. So much in the bible is just ludicrous, yet far too many take it at face value. That's ignorance.
@@thischristian8317claiming there’s a misunderstanding in how you look at a verse implies a “correct” way of viewing it. The bible teaches correct way of looking at things - whereas critical thinking doesn’t. It is about deconstructing it, breaking everything apart and questioning everything. And from to come to a consensus after the process of thinking for yourself, and not what a book told you is true. Because well, how do you know if the book is lying to you? You don’t know until you test it and throw it in the flames.
I was found guilty of sins thousands of years before I was born and some dude sacrificed himself for the sins that I haven't even had a chance to do? Good to know.
You’re literally speaking from pure ignorance… 🤦🏽♂️ There is the curse of sin and the act of sinning. Jesus came to defeat sin and death as a curse upon mankind, not stop people from sinning. That’s a different topic that deals with discipleship, which has nothing to do with being saved. Sin as a curse results in death, for believer and unbeliever, BUT believers have the imputed righteousness of Christ, thus despite sinning in act, they are still saved thanks to the blood of Christ. Now, for a closer inspection regarding the act of sinning, sin(ing) leads to a physical death for all (but everyone is a sinner, hence our need for Christ), but no one goes to hell for sinning, you go to hell for not believing in Christ (John 3:18). Why? Because life is in the blood, and Christ IS life, therefore if you reject Christ, you reject life, and where there is no life, there is only death. There is no life outside of Christ… this is why people go to hell, not because they’re “being bad.” How you live your life has NOTHING to do with going to Heaven… but it will ruin your life here.
@@Sharon-fw9qw Everyone was born into sin. That’s why we all die. Sin = death. Until you can find me a way to live forever like Jesus (God) did, you are under sin just as much as everyone else, including me, though it’s “was” for me since I’m no longer under the Law/sin but grace through Christ.
@@Sharon-fw9qw _I certainly was Not born with sin_ You showed that you were born with sin the first time you told you mom 'no.' Then, of course, you bit your sister, took your brother's toy, stole from a classmate and cheated on a test. Yes, we are all born with sin. We just call it 'the human condition' and excuse it because 'we're all that way,' but it's still sin.
I'm so glad you're back and creating your great content again! I can't imagine how difficult it is being one of the public faces of what so many of us are dealing with in the US today. Good for you for taking care of yourself. Your channel plus those of other recovering fundamentalists and critical scholars have helped me get through the deconstruction of my religious upbringing, and I thank you for that. Never doubt that you are making a difference.
I am a retired pastor. I've never believed in the virgin birth and I taught folks in my congregations that Jesus did NOT die for our sins, but because the Romans tortured and killed him. I also doubt the great rabbii ever claimed to be the messiah and he certainly would never have approoved of anyone worshipping him. Good work! I would send you $$$ if I could but I live on $400 per month. Blessings to you and your efforts to engage folks in critical thinking. I would love to be of assistance to you.
i loved the typical Sunday - church (Sunday school) and then dinner with my grandparents and various aunts/uncles. but the church & parents would stress, for instance,that is was a sin to lie & I must never - but they all lied all the time, even in church. that started my "hey, wait a minute..." moments.
That's the backwards logic of Christianity. And it's been given room over millennia to have it's followers justify anything, even to the point of calling "good evil and evil good". And we know what Isaiah 5:20 states. Or not 😸.
@@CatDaddyGuitar All priests profess to represent the Lord, or what is the same thing, the Lord God, or Sun of Summer (living God); nothing would induce them to personate Satan, or the same Sun in winter (dead God). This would be blasphemy and an unpardonable sin against the Holy Ghost! “Woe unto them that call evil (winter) good, and good (summer) evil; that put darkness (6 nights Gen 1) for light (6 days Gen 1), and light for darkness that put bitter (winter) for sweet (summer) and sweet for bitter. Isaiah 5.20. "I (the Sun) form the light and create darkness; I make peace (summer), and create evil (winter). I, the Lord (Sun) do all these things" (v. 7). Having first created peace (summer) and lastly evil (winter), the Lord sends down rain, for with winter the rainy season begins, from the skies that the seed (winter wheat) just sown may germinate and produce a crop, and through it, salvation (v. 8). Winter having fairly set in, the Lord denounces the cold, blustering and rainy days, calling them "potsherds" a word, says Gesenius, "put for anything mean and contemptible," such as winter was ever esteemed by the suffering poor. Isa 45
It certainly seems reminiscent of two wrongs make a right. Except in Christianity it's multiple wrongs making a right. You have to begin with original sin being inherited vicariously from our ancestors. Then you have a vindictive God who just won't forgive without a human blood sacrifice. Then you get punishment of the one guy who allegedly never did anything wrong... EVER. Then that punishment is transfered, again vicariously as retribution for all of humanity's wrongs. But also the three days of suffering (assuming jesus was in hell) is allowed as penance to offset infinite suffering for each person. BUT then its only for in-group, so not for ALL of our sins. Also, suffering continues and nobody is forgiven in any meaningful way that isn't identical to belivers forgiving themselves via an imaginary friend. Also, the forgiveness is not negotiated from any fellow human victims of the perpetrators wrongdoing, by apology to them, so they get cut out of the retribution deal. The wrongdoer never learns responsibility and finally everything gets 'put right' by the pretentious, self-righteous fantasy of justice that only exists in the head of the Christian. So it's more like ten wrongs that don't make ANY right.
You are providing a needed and valuable service! The big question is: what about all the people who lived before Jesus came on the scene, what happens to them? And all the people who have never heard of Jesus? Religion is so easily shown to be mostly ridiculous.
They will be judged on a fair scale knowing they never heard of Jesus. God isn't trying to scam anyone and judge on unfair merits. He is trying to develop a relationship with us, teach us, and develop us to the next stage of life. Unlike the implication of this video, Jesus's death on the cross was symbolic for us to see if we will embrace him and give our lives to God the way Jesus gave his life to us. There's no gotcha in Christianity, it's your choice what to do with the information you have encountered about God and what he hopes for you and your life.
That's something that was thought of early on and Paul addresses it in Romans 2. It's where they get the idea that we all have god's objective morality written on our hearts so everyone knows what right and wrong is. tl;dr you're still fucked because you should've known better
this was one of the first arguments that made the religion not stick to me, the idea that the old testament god had his chosen people and the promised land and somehow in the new testament with jesus he didn't keep them on board, although he did all the miracles right under their eyes, which kind of proves how underwhelming the real jesus probably was...
As a woman, I just believe in a loving creator of the Universe, guess you can say I am agnostic. I feel all man made religions discriminate against women. I feel Jesus was a kind man who traveled and spread kindness and fought against the evil establishment at the time and was murdered for that. I love him and carry him in my heart for that reason. I think the writers of the Bible just made him out to be more then he was or claimed to be.
Former Episcopalian Priest Alan Watts claimes that telling people not to think sinful thoughts is like telling them not to think of a green elephant in his video called Genuine 😜.
As a Christian, I’m sympathetic to this criticism since I believe it comes from some poor theology regarding atonement. Most Evangelicals and Protestants believe in Penal Substitution, which states God had to punish Jesus to forgive humanity, but that view is both unsupported by church history, and not adhered to by most Catholics and Orthodox.
@@Azravald There are several good answers that are compatible with each other, but I believe the main reason is Christus Victor. The church has historically understood that the main purpose was to defeat Satan, sin, and death.
Yes, this was the thing that made me less catholic and more agnostic. If God was all powerful, all knowing, and all good, why did he need to do all of this? Why did he need to sacrifice himself? Why hasnt he convinced the world he was the one true god? Why does he allow bloodshed in his name? Why does he allow all these to happen when he has the three "omnis". "Because Jesus wanted to teach us a lesson" Why does he need to teach us if he can magically implant things in our heads without consequence? "Because he doesnt want to interfere with our free will" Why cant he do it without interfering with free will? I thought he was all powerfull. "He sacrificed himself for our sins, so the least you could do is put faith in him" What sacrifice was there? God didnt lose anything, there is no value in a sacrifice if nothing was lost. "God works in mysterious ways" Ah yes, God leaves us hanging and unable to understand, but by not understanding we are sent to eternal torment, god doesnt have the goodness in him to prevent this which he knows will happen? I though god forgave past, present, and future sins, why do we still go to hell, if he already forgave everything past, present, future? All this comes out as some kind of asshole of a God who made false promises and when asked to verify, just ghosts us. I used to be a serious catholic, going to confession 2-3 times a week, and never missing mass. I was driven out of the faith by the very faith itself because of all these mental gymnastics teachers in religion class gave me (yes i even graduated from a catholic school and college) that never truly answered my questions about the faith itself.
_Why did he need to sacrifice himself?_ Because we don't believe his love. He had to show us. _Why does he need to teach us if he can magically implant things in our heads without consequence?_ 'Why doesn't God make it easy for us?' is our underlying question. We have a responsibility to change the wrong that we have freely chosen. A benevolent dictator does not make us right. Only we can do that, and we only know what's right if we follow Christ. 'Follow me,' Jesus said.
@craigsmith1443 if we dont believe his love, make us believe it then without interfereing with free will, instead of sending us to eternal torment, since he seemingly doesnt love us enough to directly tell us with words we would instantly understand, which we know he knows but willingly doesnt. And besides what sacrifice was actually there if God didnt lose anything in the first place, doesnt it make his sacrifice meaningles? If he knows why then communicate it, i spent my childhood in prayer asking for an answer that never came. And if god actually communicated with us properly in a way we imperfect beings would understand, which we know he can do, hes God after all, then everyone would be accepting the responsibility. I followed, but in the time i was lost, he wasnt there to talk to me. I loved God, and i believed he loved me, but he then abandoned me in my time of need.
@@mlmf2012 _if we dont believe his love, make us believe it then without interfereing with free will_ Notice the illogic of that demand? 'Make' 'without interfering with free will'? That doesn't work. Wittgenstein said, _Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language._ _instead of sending us to eternal torment_ God does not. If we go, we go by our own choice. Since you know the consequences of your decisions, then make the right decision. Don't complain about the decision that you have to make, all of life is like that. Make the right decision. _And besides what sacrifice was actually there if God didnt lose anything in the first place, doesnt it make his sacrifice meaningles?_ You misunderstand the 'sacrifice.' Jesus's sacrifice was to show us the power of God's love. The Empire killed him cruelly after his own people betrayed him as they did the prophets before him. Everybody was against him, yet even that couldn't stop God's love. Whenever you look at the Crucifixion, remember the Resurrection. They are one. _i spent my childhood in prayer asking for an answer that never came_ Why ask the right question and expect the wrong answer? You have the Bible. You have prayer. You have free will. You have a God who loves you enough to lead you in the right way to life and love and joy. the right thing to do would be to follow, as Jesus said, 'Follow me.'
@craigsmith1443 God has the power to do the illogical, he has the 3 omnis right? Its but a trivial task for him to make us understand the illogical. Regarding the sacrifice, i go back to the first question, why he couldnt just speak his love in a way everyone can perfectly understand? Why do we get eternal torment for not understanding if he perfectly loves us, even when he knew his actions would be misunderstood by people. His sacrifice is meaningless since he failed to communicate that he loves us, and again, he didnt lose anything. He is God, his death is meaninless. I prayed for him to ask for the meaning to all of these questions. And like i said i was deep into faith, i was expecting an answer to my misunderstandings. I was a child when i prayed for these answers, and i didnt stop praying till i was in 4th year college. I didnt just magically stop believing in the catholic faith after asking once, it took more than a decade of being lost hoping god would answer me where not a single christian teacher or priest could. Youre here just assuming i just wanted the answer i want to hear, when that couldnt be further from the truth.
My former Xian self wouldn't have bought this argument. I would've said that Jesus' sacrificial death reached both forward and backward in time. The paralytic's sins were forgiven because of it even though it hadn't happened yet in linear time. Still completely bogus, but at the time I would have had a response that I found theologically consistent.
Yes, but the individual didn't have to believe it happened (impossible - since it was in the future) to be forgiven. So Yhwh can indeed just forgive everyone and not have it conditional on some sort of ritual (belief, baptism, repenting, etc).
@@baxterwilliams2170 The cumulative failure of Christianity to hold up to scrutiny from any quarter: archaeology, textual criticism, science, common sense. The main problem for me was the hiddenness of God, but it wasn't at all the only problem.
Imagine how disappointed you'd be if you thought you were going to be the at the helm of a heavenly army ushering in a new age of liberty and freedom for the Jewish people, and it just turns out you were crucified for being an insurrectionist and there was no big guy upstairs looking out for you. It'd be enough to make you say "Eloi Eloi Lama Sabachthani"
How are atheists so bad at understanding Christianity. It’s not even hard which makes me wonder if some of yall are willfully misinterpreting the gospel on purpose just to dunk on a strawman. If you want your criticism to stick shouldn’t you at least understand the thing you’re criticizing
as an atheist, it feels like admitting to be a sinner, owning this, is like signing a waiver to given up your chances to go to heaven, they've been bamboozled, they all go to hell...
Mike Winger gives a great analogy to an important flaw in your logic- namely, that Christ’s payment for sin must be paid prior to forgiveness. By this logic, you should have to pay prior to ordering a meal at a restaurant. I mean, isn’t everyone there eating (receiving) prior to payment (sacrificing)? Yes. The implied promise of payment has been made the moment you order. And ALL of OT and NT believers were forgiven for their sins through Christ’s sacrifice, even millennia before the actual payment was made on the cross. It’s also the payment that saves me 2,000 years later. And I pray, you too! Oh, and the phrase “their faith” likely included BOTH the paralyzed man and his friends. Just sayin.
Chritians believe that if you're not a Christian, you'd end up in hell, no matter how holy and good you are. But that being Christians, no matter how many times you still do bad, and horrible things, so long as you "confess" your sins, go to church, read the Bible, you can go to heaven.
So why does a all powerful and all knowing magical guy need payment for anything. It all seems weirdly complicated for a guy that can just speak existence into existence.
@@josiahvonb3426 Love is not love when it’s compulsory. He granted free will, we failed, we have a rebellious nature, God in his love offers the ultimate payment for our rebellion through His Son Jesus, we have the choice to receive it as our person payment for our sin, and God’s eternal justice for sin is paid. And it WILL be paid one way or the other-either through his Son’s sacrifice or by ours. I find it so interesting how quick we are to want an infinitely LOVING God, but not an infinitely JUST God. We can’t fathom the depths of His love, and neither can we fathom the fullness of His justice and holiness. The point is, he’s God, we’re not, and we can only grab hold of His mercy and grace offered to us completely free! The beautiful thing is that when we do, He justifies us, redeems us , adopts us, changes us, provides for us, guides us, comforts us, protects us, blesses us, resides in us, rewards us, and saves us both now and for eternity. Amazing. I don’t deserve ANY of it!
Awesome way to put it, here is a passage that goes along: But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. ~Romans 3:21-26
@Ayylmaogoodsir Ha, that's everyone. The difference is that some people admit the limits of their knowledge and accept that, while others convince themselves that they can't possibly be wrong.
If Jesus dying on the cross for three hours is paying the penalty for my sins, then my punishment should actually be to die on a cross for three hours, not burn in hell for all eternity. In order for Jesus to pay the penalty for my sins, he would have to go to hell for all eternity! Was he willing to do that? DID he do that? NO! Therefore Jesus did not pay the penalty for my sins or the sins or anyone else. Your welcome!
Actually Jesus offers to give you life and love in abundance, and all he ask in return is some acknowledgement... Billions of humans, mocking him and killing each other for 1000's of years just to whine like God owes you something... Yeah I'd say that gets tiring after awhile... Eternal Hell is more of a pagan thing, but even still you'd be sending yourself there for reasons I mentioned.... God is not your servant! All God's ever tried to do is love his people and this is the world you've chosen instead.
@saldiven2009 , Aside from Human misinterpretations and corrupted Kings... God's final judgments during those times we're on those that were considered "irredeemable"... After some warning or another, they either rebelled, disobeyed, or didn't care either way. These things led to their downfall... Man turns his back to God, that comes with consequences. As with any sort of existing authority.
@saldiven2009 , Today is no different from then... Which is why we preach repentance. It's easy for anyone to become a villan, it takes courage to be a hero and humility to do the right thing... If God created you, why call God evil if you are not the same? God is the *breath of life* in all things. 🙏🏼
I am a fully fledged cristian, i studied the bible in greek and hebrew, i have traced the significance and meaning of what the bible says and have a LOT against the way that most of the churches teach and preach, most people speak of the bible in memorized ways and most people who claim to be christian dont make a dive in what it actually means, just follow blindly what they have been exposed to and their favorite pastor, wether corrupt or not.
I was raised catholic and the contradictions between faith based on fear verses what is right is what drove me away from ALL organized religion. faith in a divine being or beings is fine but what is in your heart is the way. I always tell people, "good people do bad things for good reasons, and bad people do good things for bad reasons. The good that comes from either isn't what should matter but what the motivation was in the first place."
@@diswhoiaml3470 The Christians have the belief that "The road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions™." The Muslims believe that "God will judge our actions based on our intentions." Which one is right? A: BOTH. God will judge us based on our TRUE intentions, not the ones we RATIONALIZED because we preferred that outcome. And then send us to Hell for those intentions. Unless we ask for mercy ion the Day of Days, and He forgives us.
@@TimeSurfer206 The problem is that using the logic of what various sacred books point out, you will find contradictions again and again and logic is rarely used to interpret what they are trying to tell us with symbols. In both conceptions it is an external agent who judges our actions in life and we wonder how a God of Love will blame us for something we did not commit (Catholicism with original sin) or will judge and condemn us for all eternity (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) I'll give you a clue: in ancient Egypt, Osiris was the representation of God who guarded the doors of the underworld and when appearing before him, the soul was placed on a scale with a feather and if it weighed less it was allowed to advance while that if it weighed more (guilts, unresolved anxieties, attachments) it was returned to the world (reincarnated) to try again. An example is that of suicides who are said to be unable to enter Paradise (peace and unity), but not because they are declared guilty but because of the burdens (guilt, unresolved anxieties, attachments) as explained in the film "What Dreams May Eat" with Robin Williams when he arrives with his wife and she was still in the same cycle as when he died. Jesus explained it with the parable of the prodigal son. God is Father and is waiting for us to return, being the ones who delay returning.
"dont make a dive in what it actually means," There is no IT. The bible is a collection of writings; poetry, letters, policy statements; sometimes revelations. Anyway, the process used in discovering what Paul meant when he wrote to the Corinthians would require some knowledge of Corinthians (and Paul).
You think this jibberish is 'legendary'? I would have made this video when I was 10, it is so childish and superficial and simply sets up a straw man. Of course Christ could forgive sins, He is the Eternal Son of God, God from God. He is not just some 'dude'. He does not dwell in time and space, the Cross transcends time and BTW the thief was forgiven DURING the Crucifixion. Our redemption is not just about the Cross, it's also about Christ's decent into hades and Resurrection. There is no teaching that God could not forgive sins before the Crucifixion in time and space. This is such a pathetic argument that it shows the poor guy who made this video is pretty desperate.
@@marcokite are you seriously going with the classic "god can do anything" retcon? Lmao. You are coming from the perspective that the bible is completely perfect so no matter what anyone points out or says you will do the necessary mental gymnastics to hold onto that belief
Hi Daniel. Genital mutilation, otherwise called "castration", was necessary so the rich polygamists could have eunuchs to guard their harems of women. The ancient Jews prepared children for this future possibility by introducing the ritual of circumcision. There was no way Jesus would say anything that ran counter to the fat-cats' interests. Cheers, P.R.
The Jesus Christ sacrifice claim was so absurd that I never believed it. I wasn’t expected to believe it, because I was never under pressure to accept anything that couldn’t be demonstrated to be factual. Even my working career depended upon things that could be demonstrated to be factual. If this god character supposedly created heaven & hell, he can amend his own damn laws. But the truth is that there is no evidence for the existence of divine law, and I refuse to accept any assertions of guilt, in the absence of evidence for divine law.
@@MatthewFearnley No God, no Dignity only the nothing that atheism gives to your life (God will judge you too, do not think to escape, actually you will be weaker as a guess alone weak person). Your socket cult called atheism will die soon and we will forget about you, none will even notice it..
Glad you are back, will make a donation. Hope it helps. As a 'PK', I've been on a journey of what I believe and what i don't. I'm 65 and have been skeptical since i was young, and none of it made sense to me, but I clung to beliefs because it was what I knew, and my family is very Christian. I was raised very middle of the road Methodist Methodist and we didn't take everything in the Bible literally so it was easier for me to question things.
I provided an answer above if you care to read it. I pray God takes away the blinders that the enemy has on you and that your able to truly see God's sacrifice on the cross for you and me and everyone. I would copy and paste it here if you don't find it. God bless.
@@Chavez.E The problem is, the blinders might be on someone else, namely you. Why do you need a blood sacrifice to come back to God? Didn't God himself say he "DESIRES MERCY, NOT SACRIFICE"? I pray that the Lord will lead you to quit gaslighting people based on the evil doctrines DEVISED BY MAN, and no, you don't "have the truth" no matter how much you try to convince yourself of it. (hint: NO ONE does!) He who has ears, listen, but I'm afraid yours are terminally closed.
The purpose of the healing accounts in the scriptures cited was to demonstrate the power of God, as well as God’s desire to redeem those who exercise faith in the sacrifice of Jesus…
why aren't those healing like the ones in the bible still not happening today? look at how many christians that are sick are in the hospitals dying and being keep alive by mechanical means not by divine intervention. they're only stories in the bible they're not true.
I’m more agnostic now, but I grew up Lutheran. I had thought that all sin from all time past present and future was put on the cross. God wouldn’t be limited to the flow of time like us humans. I think CS Lewis made a good point how god surrounds all of existence outside of time and space as we know it. A bit sci-fi-y, wibbly wobbly, but interesting.
he does already have a video on the subject titled “How to Get Over the Fear of Hell”, you can find it by entering the title into the youtube search bar. for more help with this problem you can google “Recovering from Religion”, go to their website, click on the resources tab, and type “fear of hell” into the search bar. it will give you videos and other content that will go into depth about the topic. good luck :)
he does already have a video on the subject titled “How to Get Over the Fear of Hell”, you can find it by entering the title into the youtube search bar. for more help with this problem you can google “Recovering from Religion”, go to their website, click on the resources tab, and type “fear of hell” into the search bar. it will give you videos and other content that will go into depth about the topic. good luck :)
Great to see you getting back on the saddle Thomas. I hope you've got some much needed rest and are able to get back into the swing of things making content. I've really missed your voice in this space. Your channel was one of the very first things I found at the beginning of my deconversion and it's got a special place in my heart.
Many people’s kids die. Horribly Tragically. Even (sadly) some at their own hands. And they’re gone forever. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son… Jesus died and was gone for a few days-God got him back. Did God really give that much? Parents who lose their children suffer so much more. Serious.
He was quoting Jesus right then, too! I'm not British, and it also was surprising to me. I was like, "Oh, I bet he's gotten a hold of an Anglican bible again..."
I knew it intuitively but yeah same here. It was a subtle form of brainwashing though, more like having trust that people you cared for and respected knew better than you.
@@mcgillstern it is only an expression. You're asking if they are still brainwashed, if you take everything literal, you should know you can't literally wash your brain.
I love how he reminds the audience that there were MANY so-called Jewish "Prophets" around the SAME TIME as Jesus, and explains what the Jewish messiah was ACTUALLY SUPPOSED to do, which is a great reason for Jewish people to NOT believe the Messiah has come yet (there is no "messiah" of course, and Judaism is not more real than Christianity). ALSO he explains WHY there were so many prophets. Excellent video 😊
@@steakknives We *do* have komodo dragons... I found it stupidly interesting when I first saw a painting of "St. George and the dragon" and how ridiculously small the "dragon" was. Even ol' George's horse was small (in religious paintings of the time, the "important" figure was the largest... because that person was, you know, "important"). Aside from the fact that the "dragon" looked like it was pieced together from various other critters, I don't think ol' St. George would've stood a chance against, say, Smaug from "The Hobbit". One whack with his tail and St. George would've been canned Spam. 😆
Technically Judaism is "more real than Christianity", since the statement "I have a pet dragon" is less false than the statement "I have 3 pet dragons who can calculate my taxes and they ate the president once"
@@centaur7607 Judaism predates Christianity, and Christianity started out as a Jewish sect before becoming a competing religion. That's why some people (especially religious Jews) like to say that Judaism more "real". Of course that's not actually the case, "earlier" doesn't mean "truer"
You have to take it in context. What were the people doing that our LORD didn’t see that was right? A lot of times the people were sacrificing their children to other gods!! Why was the temple destroyed 1st time?
@@jeremyshaffer8777 and the Israelites were sinless ? Thou shalt not kill is a Commandment . Wasn't Abraham quite happy to kill his son? Is God going to punish the Israelis for the slaughter of Palestinian CHILDREN in Gaza ?
The Pauline doctrine that became Christian dogma is easily explained. Paul was a Pharisee, and what did observant Jews do? Sacrificed animals at the temple. For the periodic forgiveness of their people. And all the disciples were from the same tradition. What can be more obvious? This was a simple logical step, especially as temple sacrifice was impossible any longer after the destruction of the temple.
Wait are you saying the logical step is forgiveness without sacrifice? Because the sacrifice of lamb of God started before Paul converted, and it's obvious he explored and fleshed out that idea in some of his letters. 1 Corinthians 10 for example. Christians today still celebrate Christ's sacrifice in the Holy Mass, or Devine Liturgy, the way that Paul described it.
@@zacharybean1253 When a sick person could not be taken into Jesus' presence on the ground because of the crowd, he was lifted in. Jesus said 'your sins are forgiven.' There had not yet been any sacrifice, since Jesus was still in his three year ministry.
@phillipschuman4307 I really don't know what you're trying to prove there. That's an extremely deep scene of Christ Forgiving sins before his sacrifice. It specifically shows that he's the lamb of God, which is setting up his whole sacrifice to begin with. He's filling the entire mystery of sacrifice. It's not proving what you think it is.
@@zacharybean1253 I'm not trying to prove anything. As a Christian, I accept these doctrines as a matter of faith. Separately from that, I am discussing other ideas and concepts. Abraham lived hundreds of years before Jesus' sacrifice. Yet the scripture states 'his faith was credited to him as righteousness.' Plain faith in God, not specifically about a much later sacrifice he didn't know about. Also, not following the law (which had not yet been given to Israel until far later, as well). John the Baptist preached the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, and it was a true teaching. So these are interesting truths from the scripture to be reconciled.
Simple Bhuddist theory(not comfortable) forgiveness is like respect and love, they must all be Earned. Salvation is the same. No comfort, just hard truths you can't avoid. No wonder Bhuddism doesn't get many converts....
The thing is, it's not even for survival -- just taste and convenience. Many of us can make choices that refrain from killing sentient beings, but 99% of us humans pay for slaughter to happen on our behalf.
I was surprised by what you said, because as a self-instructed Christian, I have publicly taught for about 20 years that the one and only thing necessary for sins to be forgiven is for God to show us mercy. Not that Jesus didn't pay for our sins, but that sacrifices can only work if God chooses to accept them. I had to come to that conclusion to make sense of the bible. So those verses don't really undermine Christianity, they just undermines standard dogma. I know dozens of examples of that. Sometimes I forget how different my beliefs are from standard dogma.
So I'm curious. In your theology, what was the purpose of Jesus' death if God could have just chosen to show mercy on us instead of requiring a sacrifice? And what do you do with Hebrews 9?
@@montagdp His death served many purposes. One was to show the way. "Take up your cross and follow me." Of course, God could have "just chosen" many things, I do not believe God is constrained by anything other than his own will and nature. Just because God can just forgive us because he is merciful, doesn't mean he chooses to do it that way. So it doesn't render the sacrifice of Christ without purpose. He chose the sacrifice of Christ because it pleased him. The wages of sin is death, and that is a debt that God demands be paid. The way he determined to do that is according to what is right in God's eyes. I don't disagree with anything in Hebrews 9, but if a sacrifice is acceptable to God, it is because God, in his mercy, recieves it. God does not have to accept anyone's sacrifices, and there are a number of examples where he did not accept a sacrifice.
@PaulStringini Hebrews 9:22 says that without shedding of blood, there can be no forgiveness of sins. It sounds like you're trying to have it both ways. Let me ask you to consider a different point of view: what if Jesus was just a guy, but his followers thought he was the Messiah, so they came up with all this convoluted theology came as a means to explain why he died? After all, no one had an idea about a suffering Messiah until after Jesus died.
@@montagdp "without shedding of blood, there can be no forgiveness of sins." Sure but that's only true because God ordains it. One of my key principles is that God does not bow to an external set of rules. It's not about having it both ways, it's really more about perspective. Nothing has to be any other way than God wills it. So far as your suggestion, I've considered that point of view. My faith in Jesus is not based on the testimony of his disciples, though that does play a role. The reason I still believe in God is because one time when I called on the name of Jesus, he responded with power. That experience drove most of my doubts away.
So god sacrificed himself to himself for my sins that I hadn’t committed yet, but he demonstrated beforehand that he didn’t really need to, but still didn’t so he could say he did. Got it
As a former Christian, I'm pretty sure how Christians would respond here. The story goes that Jesus' death didn't just save people at the time of his death and thence after, but that supposed event retroactively saved those prior to the cross because of their faith in a coming Messiah. So the paralytic in the story believed in Jesus' ability to save him. But Jesus didn't arbitrarily forgive him then, but did so *on the basis of what he was going to do* (i.e., die on the cross for the sins of the world). See Romans 4:18-25, for example. So, God is still bloodthirsty.
Indeed. Christians would simply say God was more merciful back then and allowed people with little to no knowledge of Christ to be saved simply by trusting in God, "as seen in creation." The story was aparently revealed progressively. So God saved based on one's level of revelation. We now who have a more full explanation of things are required to believe in Christ (Acts 17:30). It's definitely reaching.
God creates Adam & Eve. Puts them in a Garden where a Tree of Knowledge is a sin if you eat from it. He made them to fail. He made all of us sinful before we get to do anything. Then time passes and God talks to Abraham about sacrificing his son but at the last second changes His mind. Then time passes and God has an Angel tell Mary "you're gonna have God's baby! Congratulations!" and she doesn't even get an orgasm out of that. So time passes and Jesus is sacrificed and his blood cleans all the misdeeds of all of humanity provided all of humanity believes in this bull crap. However, before his sacrifice, Jesus is able to forgive the sins of those presented before him without having actually done the sacrifice. So this presumption that God can't forgive us of our sins without the blood sacrifice is a lie. He CAN. He CHOOSES not to, except in two instances where Jesus actually does and it's in the bible. Matt chapter 9 versus 1-8 and also in Mark and Luke. It's IN the bible. Jesus forgives before he sacrifices himself, so he never needed to do that cuz GOD never needed to do that. Why? Cuz he's GOD! He works in mysterious ways! No, not really. Follow: Who makes the rules? God did. His multiverse. His rules. So he can break his own rules. So why even make us imperfect in the first place? Or why say imperfection is sin? Cuz God said? But he makes the rules, right? We all fall short of the glory of God and why is that? Cuz that's how God made us, so we'd have to sacrifice our own freedoms in order to CHOOSE to be with Him and NOT use the Knowledge from The Tree! Yeah! THAT tree OVER THERE that he put in the Garden so Eve would take a bite! GOD did that! For our sins..? No. Knowledge IS sin. Cuz Knowledge is power and Ignorance is bliss. Either refuse Knowledge and give in to God so he feels better about himself, or stay curious but SO don't drink this Kool-Aid cuz it's poison. Even if you watch this video and STILL choose to drink from that Kool-Aid and worship a god that would make you broken so he could fix you only he doesn't really fix you cuz he likes you broken. Even if you STILL confess your sins to Him and kneel before Him, it doesn't matter. The very pillar upon all this is founded upon is sand on a beach. You worship a false god that doesn't even exist but IF he existed, he's not worthy of your worship cuz he made you broken so your unflappable devotion would fix Him. I think we're done here.
Also, if his death was necessary, why do so many Christians hate Jews for Killing Jesus? I made a video about this years ago. If Jesus had a purpose to come here and die for us, then what the Pharisees did was essential to redemption. In which case they would be fulfilling God's will. But yet so many Christians hate modern Jews would nothing to do with anything even if Jesus did exist and was executed, for their supposed ancestors doing something that God wanted to happen in the first place.
I'm Christian. I have to correct other believers with this sentiment. John 10:18 No one takes my life from me. I give my life of my own free will. I have the authority to give my life, and I have the authority to take my life back again.
I'm Hebrew/Jewish. When confronted with this Christian mind virus I tell them, "Had the Temple leaders NOT had Him crucified, NOT ONE OF YOU would have the opportunity to join in HIS suffering and be saved!" I have yet to receive rebuttal. Shalom 😇
Hating Jews is racism, not Christian. Jesus is the greatest Jew who ever lived! But Christians are also sinners, and many are racist as well. Being Christian is not the same as being perfect. Christians are only those who recognize they are sinners and trust in Jesus to save them from their sin. Over time, the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives enables Christians to become more like Jesus, and less like sinners.
As a spiritual Christian, I've always thought this idea of redemption by blood to be intrinsically absurd. Conceptually, though forgiveness from a creator who constructed this "veil of tears" would logically arise from this deity when they have endured the vicissitudes of human existence. We didn't create this complex and are not guilty for surviving it by our own humble means. There... Fixed it for you.
@jiohdi 1/ Absurd Stone Age and Bronze Age threats don't cut it any more in 2024. Sorry. 2/ Why would anyone fear a supposedly 'loving' and 'forgiving' thing unless there was actually something to fear, namely being tortured for all eternity? 3/ The god of the bible is a child-abuser and torturer which makes terrorist threats to its own supposed 'children' according to the book it supposedly 'inspired' about itself! 4/ Not for me, thanks.
It is not the fear of murderer of maniac, it is like a fear of father. Of course we are all fear our fathers, because they have some sort of power in our family. But, you know, it is more like fear of disappointing him. The same is with God. Everything is about growth over the sin. And God will forgive our mistakes, the intention is important. If you deny God, and prefer permanent death in the Hell, it is also your choice. But it is much better to live in connection with God. Try to pray with all your heart warmth, like you are talking with your Father, who created everything and who can understand why did you sin. Talk with him and feel something.God bless you.
@@Sanchellios 1/ Please be the first and demonstrate that any god thing, including whatever you think your god is, has ever existed at any time in human history before asking people to speak to it. Where is your god located? 3/ Then please demonstrate that a torture chamber called hell has ever existed in human history. Where is hell located?
@@niblick616 You could reach the God by prayer and your feelings. I did it this way. Anyway, I know, that if you have no intention to believe in God, in other words, to answer the God, you will never accept such kind of an answer. For me, it is clear that God exist, because I have relations with him, and prayer is in the center of this relations. Some time ago it also was nonsense for me, I did not believed it. But the difference is, that with God I finally reached that centered way of life, without anxiety and fear. Year ago I've read Yukio Mishima commentary on Hagakure, and questioned myself: For what I'm ready to die? I was thinking a lot. And not so long ago I've established my relationships with God, and I know, that I'm ready to sacrifice my life for god. Now I'm writing to you with opened heart and hope you will accept my answer, even it not precisely answers your question (at all), but I wish you will find the way to God. Because, you know, I really with to make one more human happy. But if you do not believe me - it's okay. I'm just sharing my view. And the answer to your question - God is in your heart. And Hell is also in your heart. The difference is if you live a sinful life, or try to improve yourself, to live or even try to live a saint life.
@@planteruines5619 I'd love to see the source to backup that statement. The James Webb telescope has already proven that the universe is far bigger that any human has ever thought. However you claim to know with certainty that our planet is the only only to have consciousness. That's a cliam that requires irrefutable evidence to back up.
@@dazzag So far we are the ONLY planet with documented life, and the ONLY species with advanced civilisation is a religious species: homo sapiens. Is this so difficult for atheists to comprehend? it's called empirical evidence, based on inductive reasoning, rendering preliminary conclusions in the balance of probabilities. Or in a simple word "science".
I am thankful that I an not a Judea/Christian/Moslem so that the term sin does not apply to me. I don’t need somebodies definition of a god to forgive my sins. My non sins are not going to damn me for an eternity in the boogeyman’s idea of a hell. I won’t be stopping anyone from believing that stuff, but if they are correct then odds are they are worshipping the wrong god anyway so they will be sitting right next to me on a burning bench. But he loves you!
Vicarious redemption "Do you believe Jesus died for our sins? What does 'Jesus died for our sins' even mean? What would have been the consequences if he hadn't? If original sin caused suffering and death, and Jesus died to pay for our sins, then what is the point of eternal payment for sins in Hell? Do you believe that Maui tried to give humans immortality by turning into a worm and crawling up Hine-nui-te-pō's (goddess of death) vagina but being crushed by her vaginal obsidian teeth? Do you believe that Prometheus let an eagle eat his liver every day so that we could have fire? If Jesus was able to forgive sins by just saying they were forgiven why did he need to die on a cross to forgive them (Luke 5:20)? When did Jesus say that he was dying to atone for sins? Which Old Testament scriptures support the notion that sins are forgiven by the atoning death of the Messiah (Luke 24:45-47)? How could Jesus die for sins of others if 'every man shall be put to death for his own sin' (Deuteronomy 24:16) and the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father (Ezekiel 18:20)? Why couldn't an omnipotent god forgive the sins of humanity without anyone being executed? If whether we spend eternity with or apart from Yahweh depends on how we exercise our free will, then what was the point of Jesus dying? If Jesus died for our sins, what difference does it make how we exercise our free will? If this is up to Yahweh and Yahweh loves us, then why didn't Yahweh just admit everyone into Heaven straight away without Jesus or anyone dying? If it is not up to us and not up to Yahweh, then what is it up to? Who created Hell? How exactly does one person dying have anything to do with the sins committed by other people? Do you think that the ancient Israelite practice of sending a live (scape)goat into the wilderness to die had some effect on anyone's sins? Do you think that the annual slaughter at Hajj of hundreds of thousands of animals by Muslims is effective in bringing the participants closer to Allah? Does the slaughter of animals in the annual Hindu Gadhimai festival make wishes come true? Do you think that Jesus dying on a cross had some effect on anyone's sins? Do you think that the human sacrifices of the Aztecs were effective in appeasing their gods? Do you think that the human sacrifice of Jesus (Hebrews 9:22, Hebrews 10:10), the convenant transgressors (Joshua 7:15), pagan priests (2 Kings 23:20 ), or thirty-two Midianites (Numbers 31:28-40) was effective in appeasing your god? How does a system of vicarious redemption promote moral accountability? Should people be allowed to substitute themselves for convicted murderers on death row? If Jesus died to pay for our sins, then exactly whom did he pay? And how did the recipient of this payment benefit from this payment? If Jesus could work miracles and could have saved himself from crucifixion, and therefore went through with the crucifixion voluntarily, how can he be classed among actual victims whose suffering is not voluntary? If the fair price to pay for sin is eternal conscious torment in Hell, and if Jesus paid for our sins, shouldn't Jesus be suffering eternal conscious torment in Hell? If Jesus paid for our sins at the cross as a sacrifice, why will temple sacrifices start again during the millennial reign of Jesus? Is it virtuous for Yahweh to sacrifice itself to itself to appease itself in order to save us from itself? Is it virtuous for a soldier to throw himself on a grenade whose pin he pulled himself? How was Jesus's death a 'sacrifice' for Yahweh if Yahweh can do anything and Jesus didn't stay dead and is now with Yahweh, who is also Jesus? How is it possible for Yahweh to permanently lose (sacrifice) anything? If Jesus came from and then went back to Heaven, wouldn't his 33 years on Earth be the real suffering and his six hours on the cross be a trivial and welcome exit method?" Click to copy and share: www.stopindoctrination.org/#vicarious-redemption Jesus died for NOTHING Venaloid th-cam.com/video/FN9dTkTTQto/w-d-xo.html The Manipulative Nature Of The Gospel Message Kristi Burke th-cam.com/video/Hc2zOqImjQE/w-d-xo.html Jesus: the cover-up NonStampCollector th-cam.com/video/7gvv_UM7CYg/w-d-xo.html Jesus is confused. @iblainemyself www.tiktok.com/@iblainemyself/video/6955511859311136005?lang=en Time for forceps jewlery @iblamebill www.tiktok.com/@iblamebill/video/7319566447624342830 degrading love -- part two | how religions distort 'love' TheraminTrees th-cam.com/video/0jyg8_qPNbY/w-d-xo.html Glen Scrivener & Matt Dillahunty • Morality: Can atheism deliver a better world? Unbelievable? th-cam.com/video/B3-sjyDYO2I/w-d-xo.html Jesus died for your sins religions.wiki religions.wiki/index.php/Jesus_died_for_your_sins The evolution of christianity Stairway to Reason th-cam.com/video/X7yj_nKDvlg/w-d-xo.html Christian Justice DarkMatter2525 th-cam.com/video/VWAUhadJzTk/w-d-xo.html Dr. Sam Harris vs. "Dr." Craig BEST POINT IN THE DEBATE! Sam Harris th-cam.com/video/HthQ6a7FZeA/w-d-xo.html Forgiveness, Grace, and God's Death Sentence NonStampCollector th-cam.com/video/SGkgmU9vG_o/w-d-xo.html Is Christianity Moral? DarkMatter2525 th-cam.com/video/35_JHx_OzA4/w-d-xo.html 3 Signs Christianity is Mythology Travis Haan churchandstate.org.uk/2017/05/3-signs-christianity-is-mythology Click to copy and share: www.stopindoctrination.org/#vicarious-redemption
and why dose doing MORE SIN remove and forgive sin? i have read "sin" is atualy "sin/cosin" or "sine and cosine" (the moon) in which the god of the moon one the names is "sin" kill innocent jesus? isent that SIN/evil? offing innocent animals? isent that SIN/evil? i wonder if these animal sacrafices, were to satan but peaople thught it was god?
The only thing I can advise you to do, if you are willing to change mind and open your heart to the truth of Christianity, read the books of Romans and Hebrews (in the New Testament), they answer all the questions/doubts you have listed here :)
I belong to denomination called Religious Science. And this is part of larger movement called New Thought Christianity, We don't teach the concept of "sin". We generally call it 'error' from which we can learn and correct course. And him dying on the cross and being resurrected, is viewed as proof of his words being divinely inspired. So this more or less, sidesteps the "Died for our sins" and focuses on the meaning his words. Christianity in general has always debated between faith vs works. I would put my entire movement on the side of works.
you are missing the point that they still had faith in the messiah that came that being jesus they believed the prophets of the old testament salvation has always been through faith but death was finally defeated at the cross
The irony, of course, is that the points made are just handwaved away, and recontextualized to fit. The Bible is literally self contradicting in its claims, and the religious assertions that make up every denomination's particular theology, are all literally incompatible with their source material. It's been a millenia or two now, and the people invested in performing mental gymnastics, engaging in sophistry, outright lying, or using psychologically abusive rhetoric in order to not have to face the incoherence of their religious assertions, seem pretty determined to keep doing everything and anything to not have to deal with that reality.
Even with satan tempting Jesus, he quoted scripture against Jesus and Jesus quoted it back to counteract. Even a gardening manual, taken out of context, can be used to drown roses in a pond, and dry out water lillies, and cover them with compost. The bible is a collection of 66 books in the current protestant cannon, of course there are contradictions. Paul contradicts Jesus, but generally, the churches prefer paul, cause you can make a religion out of him! Bums on seats. Money on the plate...
God is a loving and forgiving God, therefore there is no hell. Phillip understood this and wrote about it and that's why his apostle didn't make it to the Bible.
This is hell- violence, war, disease, mental illness, crime, corruption, rape, murder, child molestation, child abandonment, neglect, poverty, the list goes on--- welcome to hell!
… But there ARE also freethinking Christians, like myself, who do not believe the Bible is inerrant and also dislike weaponized Biblical Literal-ism. I enjoy listening to these types of videos because It’s a good idea to get a wide range of opinions from Atheists, Christians, Biblical Scholars, etc. Obviously, we don’t agree with every opinion thrown our way but it does pay to listen - and that’s why I’ll never sensor or block someone with a different idea. It’s like what ReligionForBreakfast always says “Religions are internally diverse”, and I’m an example of that diversity. The words “all”, and “shared” in your description don't take the diverse, wider, and more open Christian viewpoint into account - which makes this video very easy to refute: Yup! Christ forgave the Paralytic without any of that sacrifice stuff - pretty neat right? He has the power to do that without the sacrifice since he’s God. This argument of "How did he forgive the Paralytic without the sacrifice" is similar to the argument people have been making for thousands of years about all those "edge cases" that God would have to handle somehow: The people who d1ed before Christ, the tribesmen, the babies who d1e, etc. I don’t know HOW he will handle those things - or if the sacrifice will be a part of those edge cases - but this story tells me that it IS in fact possible for him to handle "edge case" forgiveness of sins since he's God. The purpose of his sacrifice was the way for him to fulfill ancient prophecies, reveal himself as God, and open up that forgiveness to everyone. (and there's more stuff his sacrifice does too) Also, you have to remember that certain things are highlighted in the Bible (Or any religious text for that matter) by the human writer to prove a point / in response to the intended audience of the day. So I do believe the story of the paralyzed man and the prisoner on the cross did actually happen AND at the same time - they were put in the Bible as commentary. Commentary on his divinity. I may not be 100% on the mark when I say this but I believe that the POINT of these verses is “Only God can can forgive sins, Christ can forgive sins (So he's God), we are sick people, and WE need Christ - there's nothing that we can do on our own”. It’s not about baptism, it’s not about donating to the Church, It’s not about the societal position (gentile in the case of the prisoner), how sinless you've been in the past, or the Sabbath. It’s about recognizing you can’t make it and trusting in Christ. So no. It does not undermine Christianity… it strengthens it … that’s why it was included.
From a purely logical point a view, almost everything that Christians say in defence of their religion is only meaningful to somebody who already believes. For instance a believer might say "You must believe because it says right here in the Bible." But part and parcel of being a non-believer is that I don't believe what it says in the Bible, so that argument completely fails. To have any chance of winning me over, you would need to come up with an argument that doesn't rely upon me already being a believer.
@@martymcfly1776 Agreed! That's because parts of the Bible is written to an audience who already believes, so that's what I mean by "it strengths it". It strengths it for believers. It's original point was to strengthen the new Christian movement for the 1st century Jew who already believes in God.
@@martymcfly1776I will also answer. God commands certain things of His servants and we just deliver them. I have seen power of them when one can bring themselves to believe and surrender that id why I do it and try to do it no matter what
@@warriorofthelord4142 Why is it that God never manifests himself. He never says anything, he never does anything, he never gives us any reason to believe. The only knowledge that we get of God comes third hand from individuals like yourself, who frankly I do not find to be the least bit convincing. It's almost as if - horrors - there was no God.
God forced people into existence and they are victims of being created in the flawed and fallible way that god created them and the flawed and fallible way that god created them is their fault that god forced them into existence and created them that way. Yeah, the way that I created you is your fault. How dare you be the way that I created you.
@@garythompson9452 If you or anybody else is worried, don't worry, because I forgive you for being the flawed and fallible way that god created you. lol
@@garythompson9452 If you're worried, don't worry because I forgive you for being the victim of being the flawed and fallible way that god created you.
The question of how the most loving entity would purposely bring people into existence knowing the risk makes no sense and I've never heard a good argument.. The Bible teaches God wants Glory and suggest people in hell achieves this so it's somehow a good thing lol. It be like me having children knowing that I'm going to have to punish them and give them never ending pain and still deciding to have children in the first place when I didn't have to.
I want all of you to get down on your hands and knees with your rumps up high so god knows that you're submissive and are willing to take whatever gods got coming to you for being the victims of being the flawed and fallible way that god created you.
Wow we did this passage TODAY in church, and this concept of forgiveness without the requirement of vicarious redemption NEVER occurred to me. Ouch! Plenty of other instances of this in gospels.
@@melindaedgington9925 Pretty lane magician trick. At least the OT god parted the Red Sea and caused work wide floods. If JC wanted to impress he should have ripped a chunk out of the moon and slam it into ocean or something...
@@2777dave Are you all that gullible? So if anybody shows you something in the scriptures and put their own twist to them, then you believe they discovered something nobody has seen before? Jesus asked his disciples, Who do men say I am. Although Peter got the right answer, he still didn't understand the revelation of the Son of God at that time. Matthew 16:22-23 (KJV) Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Now, does that mean Peter was of the devil? No. But many of you that say you are Christian or say you believe in Christ don't know what or who you are worshipping. Ephesians 4:14 (KJV) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 1 Timothy 4:1-2 (KJV) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; If you are so easily persuaded then you don't have the faith you think you have.
Jesus came to teach us that the Kingdom of Heaven was inside each of us, not through powering-over or controlling others. Everything stands on that. Jesus doesn't need a bunch of self-righteous men in robes or suits fear-mongering and gate-keeping for him.
Romans 3:23-26 [23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [24] and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [25] whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. [26] It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
"this entire theology is from the primitive ideal of blood-magic reigning supreme." The most primitive religions of them all ought to emanate from the first, true, religion. Primitive is good (in this context). Recent theological inventions not so good.
@@Dragumix "I have no reason to assume" Congratulations; you are one of the rare individuals that postpones judgement until there's a reason to judge. The earliest known organized form of a religion is at Gobekli Tepi although it is uncertain that "religion" existed as a separate entity or concept. For most of human history, culture, religion and government tend to be pretty much the same thing. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe Never mind for a moment what exactly the word "true" means in the context of religion. If a thing really is a religion (Islam, Buddhism, Christianity) then it is "true religion" with true practices, truly held beliefs, and so on. Some of the "truth claims" are probably doubtful to nearly impossible of course; but does a blemish on a banana ruin the banana? Usually not. So, it is reasonable (and sort of useless) to observe that all systems of belief contain a mixture of reliable truth claims and unverifiable truth claims and some claims extraordinarily unlikely to be strictly true. This is true even for the religion called "Science" whose prophesying has had a terrible track record so far. "Celebrating 50 years of Failed Climate Predictions" "There’s an inner beauty to doomsday predictions: When one fails, make another. (Photo by David James Henry, Wikimedia Commons)" "In 1968, with world population at 3.5 billion (7.9 billion as of 2023), Erlich penned The Population Bomb and lobbed an incendiary grenade in the opening lines of his prologue: The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate" Erlich will ultimately (probably) be correct but "Science" has a poor track record as to truth and certainty and the big questions When and How Much.
It's all because Judaism made good with God with sacrifices, including the "scape goat." Saul just built on that. Excuse me, Paul. The world's first super salesman. He had a perfectly good cult going, but he needed a NEED for your belief. Original sin. Once I heard a radio preacher while on a road trip tell me that I was born into original sin. I told him, aloud, "Not me. I was born into original grace." I am a non-salvific Christian, trying to live as he said we should. I have have a masters degree in theology which means nothing other than I think I know more than I do.
I would have made this video when I was 10, it is so childish and superficial and simply sets up a straw man. Of course Christ could forgive sins, He is the Eternal Son of God, God from God. He is not just some 'dude'. He does not dwell in time and space, the Cross transcends time and BTW the thief was forgiven DURING the Crucifixion. Our redemption is not just about the Cross, it's also about Christ's decent into hades and Resurrection. There is no teaching that God could not forgive sins before the Crucifixion in time and space. This is such a pathetic argument that it shows the poor guy who made this video is pretty desperate.
The concept of Jesus sacrificing himself for the atonement of our sins has roots in ancient Greek, Roman, and Eastern myths. These myths often featured gods or demigods who sacrificed part of their lives to save a family member, usually a brother or sister, from the realm of death. These stories were based on the idea of maintaining balance in nature and the universe. If someone wanted to leave the world of death, another person had to take their place. There are numerous examples where siblings made deals to swap places, either daily or seasonally. This privilege was not available to all mortals, which is where Christianity introduced a significant change. Jesus, the Son of God, made a bargain with death, spending three days in hell instead of a mortal spending eternity there. This act was meant to preserve the balance in nature and the universe. Interestingly, in Paul’s letters, Christians referred to themselves as brothers and sisters of Christ. This is because, in ancient myths, only family members, specifically brothers or sisters, would make such sacrifices. Therefore, by claiming to be a brother or sister of Christ, believers hoped to be saved by him, just as the ancient gods saved their siblings. In contrast, Jewish tradition lacked such myths, focusing instead on different religious narratives and laws. This made the concept of Jesus’ sacrificial atonement less familiar and harder to accept. Thus, Christianity’s spread was smoother in regions with similar mythological backgrounds, while it faced more resistance in cultures like the Jewish tradition, which lacked comparable narratives.
I just started viewing your content. I think this content has given me a sense of responsibility to protect others from falling prey to their emotions/nature. Thank you.
Right? I remember being around 6 years old. My parent’s friends thought it would give my mom a break if they took me to church with them for a few hours while my dad was at work since she also had 2 year old twins to deal with that the time. I was sitting in Sunday School hearing this story for the first time. The idea of having to have someone tortured and killed just so you could forgive someone else was terrifying. I remember thinking, “Who would my parents torture and kill in order to forgive me if I did something bad?” And my first concern was my twin brothers. So, when I got home I asked my mom who they would kill if I was bad. She was furious that she had to explain that no one was going to die if I did something bad. 🤣🤣🤣 It’s heartbreaking to think of the mental torture these poor indoctrinated kids go through when they are literally told not to question the Bible or their God and just to believe it or they’ll be burning in fire for all eternity.
Would a just judge let Hilter go free? No, not one just judge would let him go free. God is the same way. The only difference is that Jesus can pay your fines, and if you accept him, you can go to heaven. If you have any questions, just ask and I am free to answer
@@Biblereader919 Hold on here. Would a loving and just God have created Hitler in the first place, knowing exactly what he was going to do? The answer is no. God could’ve look at what Hitler was going to do and simply chose to not create him. So, God was certainly not concerned with what Hitler was going to do to HIS people (Jesus lived and died a Jew) and must have wanted them to be treated that way because he knew what was going to take place and watched it all happen. DO NOT come at me with that “free will” BS! Unless you’re prepared to 1. Tell me the passage in the Bible that says we have free will. Good luck with that. I studied the Bible for 6 of my 8 years in College and there is absolutely nothing that says anything of the sort. We don’t even have the free will to not believe in God, let alone run about doing whatever we want because that would most certainly mess up Hod’s Devine Plan. Jeremiah 29:11 - “For I know the plans I have for you,” So, declares the LORD. 2. Explain why God was so willing to interfere with RAMESSES’ free will when they Bible clearly states that he was the one who interfered with Ramesses free will by “hardening his heart”, thereby preventing Ramesses from releasing the Hebrews when he was going to, just so God would have an excuse to torture the innocent children and animals of Egypt and if God can interfere with someone’s free will to send plagues he most certainly could’ve interfered with the free will of someone’s free will if they were doing something he had not planed to happen. My advice is that you actually read the Bible before you go making yourself look foolish by defending the god you worship by making a lame attempt at minimizing the vile, evil and repugnant things he allowed to happen or actually did himself. He was proud of the disgusting things he did. So proud that he chose to have them written down so everyone ever born would know about them , so it seems quite blasphemous to negate the horrors he’s so proud of simply because his actions don’t align with your moral compass.
@@marcokite On the contrary. Someone with critical thinking skills would find it ridiculous to believe an omnipotent god would have to impregnate a child without consent, walk around for awhile telling people not to sin while he told his own disciples to steal a colt and its mother and exactly what to say IF they got caught ( instead of just ASKING the owner if they could have them and telling them who needed them), let people torture and murder him just so he could give up 3 days measly days and not even make it known to the world that he had risen again, just so men could say he did all of that because of our sins. There is absolutely nothing logical about having to come back as yourself or creating a child with a child ( without consent) that you intend to torture and kill just so you can forgive people for the sins you KNEW they were going to commit before you ever created them. If people can forgive other people without killing ourselves or our only child then it sure seems like an omnipotent god could do the same. Especially when he’s the one who created evil and sin in the first place. So, that whole, “I’m going to create evil, create people who I know are going to do evil things, then torture them when they commit the evil acts that I created and know they are going to commit for all eternity. This is why churches don’t allow people like you to question the Bible. You’re all told to not question God, but you never stop to ask yourselves why you shouldn’t. You’re all too damn afraid to question your god because you’re all absolutely terrified of what he’ll do to you if you do. Churches know that questions lead to doubt. Doubt leads to atheism and atheism leads to bankruptcy. I was 8 years old when I started asking questions no one could answer and got kicked out of Sunday School for “causing doubt in the other kids” all because no one could tell me why an omnipotent God would even bother to create a tree that he didn’t want anyone to touch on the first place and why he would put it where people could touch it when my mom puts the scissors on top of the refrigerator, so I can’t touch them. All the other kids were like, “Yeah! That doesn’t make sense” and started talking about how their parents didn’t let them touch matches, or cookies, etc. and put them where they were simply out of reach. Kids were literally saying “God should know better and God is dumb” and then I said, “ That ark doesn’t make any sense either.” I was then told to stop talking and that was my last day in Sunday School. ROFLMFAO! I was 8 and had more sense than you. So, don’t you dare attempt to disparage someone else critical thinking skills simply because you have none of your own and feel an overwhelming need to defend an omnipotent god who would never need a paltry, little human todo so in the first place.
Agape love is unconditional. That is what we are taught in church. Why do the major church leaders insist we give them money, power and control of our lives to go to heaven? Is not Gods love given freely and unconditionally. Maybe they think the sheep won't someday wake up and overthrow the. They obviously don't believe in God or the would not be pulling the crap they do.
"Paul's" letters were written by Saul, who saw a parade coming and jumped in front of it to pretend he was leading it. Just one more in a long line of opportunistic con men.
@@kellycochran6487 Saul wasn't a fan, Saul didn't actually believe a word of it. That's why he had no problem changing it when it suited him and flat out contradicting the word of Jesus when he chose. Particularly pertaining to women. Closeted Saul was terrified of them.
"You have not brought me sheep for burnt offerings, nor honored me with your sacrifices. I have not burdened you with grain offerings nor wearied you with demands for incense. You have not bought any fragrant calamus for me, or lavished on me the fat of your sacrifices. But you have burdened me with your sins and wearied me with your offenses. Yet, it is I who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more."
That just makes me think of some fatass rich guy laying on a fancy couch pissed at some servant because he didn't put enough paper umbrellas in his foo-foo drink.
I love your videos, and I know they are scripted, however, sometimes it would be good if you could slow down with the speech just a little bit. I like it when I have a second to process and verbally imbibe what the speaker is saying. - Peace
Yup, if God didn't need a human sacrifice , he chose to have one. Just like he didn't need to make that ONE tree in the garden of Eden untouchable....but he chose to. God is the original tempter, not Satan.
When God asks us to forgive others, we are absorbing the justice due to them back on ourselves. Literally, turning the other cheek just means we are accepting what is rightfully theirs and we are suffering in their place. That's exactly what God did on the cross.
Bahahah more dumb bullshit Christian excuses using your own personal interpretations and biases and listening to bias theologians who are BIASED and have been debunked. You underestimate Atheists. You think you guys are right. Well guess what, yall been debunked
I think Christuans would argue, that it was easy for Jesus to forgive sins, because he knew he would give his life for all humankind. But yes, a very good point, that it was easy for Jesus to forgive sins... even before his death. Christians/the bible claim that we are made in the image of God. And we are commanded to forgive. So we - as fallible human beings are ordered to forgive, but the almighty, all powerful and all loving infallible God needs blood for it... That's so gross. There are many examples in the bible where God doesn't forgive.
_"There are many examples in the bible where God doesn't forgive."_ God punishes children for things that their fathers, grandfathers, great-grandfathers, and great-great grandfathers did. He is so proud of this that he repeated it four times in the Bible- "I, the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." (Exodus 20:5 , Deuteronomy 5:9) "Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children unto the third and to the fourth generation." (Exodus 34:7) "Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." (Numbers 14:18) If you fail to follow all of God's commandments, God will curse your children- "If thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day ... Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body." (Deuteronomy 28:15-18) And sometimes God slaughters children for the unspecified sins of their fathers- "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers." (Isaiah 14:21)
The cost of forgiveness depends on the hurt done. in the case of Jesus, he forgave all of humanity the damage we have done and the hurts we have caused from the time that man became man to the end of our history. That is huge. When I forgive, I forgive the small, small hurts I have receive. The blood of Jesus is a picture or token of the cost of our sin. The full cost is much greater. And because it is born by the eternal Son of God the cost had no beginning nor will it have an end. It is always present just as time for God is always present.
We are commanded to forgive because God forgives us, both in the Old Testament (in anticipation of the Crucifixion) and in the New Testament. And the blood sacrifice is His own blood.
I can't understand how anyone believes unseen, unknowable nonsense just because some moldy old book says so. There are LOTS of moldy old religious texts. And they ALL more or less state they are true.
500yrs from now when everything is 100% digital a Harry Potter or Superman book will be found and the whole process will kick in again on humanity. It will work because no one from now (2024) will be around to say the books were fictional.😂
Bruh. In my opinion you won "The dumbest comment of the day" award. But wait! Does my opinion exist!?!?!?! I never saw my opinion, but one moldy book says that I have free will. If these 2 phrases are all you know to say about theology, then you're not even worth a second of my time, but I'll assume you know more than that so I ask you do debate me.
Maybe, just maybe some guys figured out that people back then thought shiny sky diamonds were deities and created the longest running scam known to man, religion. All you have to do is say that the shiny sky diamond will be angry with you if you don’t worship it. The unintelligent will be scared. But don’t worry. If you give shiny money disc to anointed holy man, shiny sky diamond will forgive you. But only until next week Sunday because we need recurring income.
In leviticus 5.11 you can even get your sins forgiven by using flour as a sin offering. In Hosea 6.6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings. God doesn't want sacrifices he wants you to repent and stop sinning. The greek testament is so flawed it ridiculous. It's obvious christains don't read at all. That's not to say Torah doesn't have it's issues.
@@davidlafleche1142 When I was Jewish I believed that you had to ask God directly to forgive you. (No guarantees that you got forgiven.) This was done on Yom Kippur, the day of atonement,the holiest of the holy days. It was a day of praying , fasting and self reflection. Now that I don't so much believe in "sin" anymore but we still do bad stuff, at least I do, occasionally, but I think it's best to try not to do bad stuff and to forgive yourself for messing up and try to make amends when possible. Now that I think abut it I wonder what Jesus, who never sinned, did on Yom Kippur? He was Jewish so he would have celebrated it.
@@davidlafleche1142 When you're not religious you don't have to make it right with a God you don't believe in. You do your best to make it right with those you've wronged and yourself. If you do the crime you do the time, there is no "get out of jail free" card, and I think though, it may be less pleasant, it is more fair.
@@davidlafleche1142 Who said there are sins? Who said they need to be "forgiven"? What does "forgiven" even mean? Etc. Currently you are simply regurgitating what you have have been indoctrinated with in the context of a form of entertainment
I'm a Quaker, keep in mind that I cannot speak for all Friends, we are a very diverse lot. I no longer believe in a propitiatory sacrifice. Today, I tend towards being a Non-Theistic Friend.
@@michaelreale1847 Hi Michael. Thanks for your thanks, and I'll raise you one "thank"😆. When I was fifteen years old I realized that if God changed from being Jewish to being Christian, his door was open for further rebranding's. As the Yanks were shooting for the moon at the time, a nerd friend of mine and I agreed God had probably thrown in his lot with the enlightenment thinkers and was now a scientist-cum-engineer, but one with a strong moral streak. The bible God does change his mind at times. Unlike you I kept the "Theism" but threw away the box it came in. Never mind, it probably doesn't matter to God what particular parody of him we believe in, I'm sure he / she's not the perfectly ruthless doctrinal pedant he or she is made out to be. The "bodge-job engineer" who evolved us would be a much more interesting person to talk to don't you think? Thanks again, Cheers, P.R.
you don't have to be saved because the thief asked jesus to remember him when he entered into his kingdom. jesus didn't say I forgive you of your sins. he just said today you will be with me in paradise. so I don't have to ask to be saved and forgiven. I just have to tell jesus to remember me when he enters into his kingdom.
And yet the Bible says that Jesus says otherwise. You have to read the entirety of the four gospels. Jesus says you have to love God and love your neighbor as yourself.
@@amyrenee1361 WAS HE SAVED ON THE CROSS You don't have to ask to have you sins forgiven because the thief asked jesus to remember him when he entered into his kingdom. jesus didn't say I forgive you of your sins. he just said today you will be with me in paradise. so I don't have to ask to be saved and forgiven. I just have to tell jesus to remember me when he enters into his kingdom. The price had not yet been paid. Jesus hadn’t died yet. So was he saved because he believed in jesus? In John 3:16 the statement is if you BELIEVE. You don’t have to ask for forgiveness of your sins just BELIEVE. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who BELIEVES in him might not perish but might have eternal life Mark 1:15 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we BELIEVE that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. Mark 16:16 Whoever BELIEVES and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Luke 8:50 Jesus said to Jairus, “Don't be afraid; just BELIEVE, and she will be healed”. John 3:18 Whoever BELIEVES in him is not condemned, but whoever does not BELIEVE stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. John 6:29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent.” John 11:40 Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you BELIEVE, you will see the glory of God?” John 14:1 Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; BELIEVE also in me. John 20:29 Jesus said, “Because you have seen me, you have BELIEVED; blessed are those who have not seen and yet Have BELIEVED”. Acts 4:4 Many people BELIEVED after hearing Peter and John preach. Acts 8:37 The Ethiopian Eunuch told Philip, "I BELIEVE that Jesus Christ is the Son of God". Acts 16:31: "BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Romans 5:12-21, Paul compares Adam's actions to the work of Christ, who died for sin to offer God's grace to all who BELIEVE. Romans 10:9: "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" 10 For it is with your heart that you BELIEVE and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. Hebrews 11:6 "He that cometh to God must BELIEVE that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him". 1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who BELIEVES that Jesus is the Son of God. 1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who BELIEVE in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to BELIEVE in him, but also to suffer for him. Galatians 3:22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who BELIEVE. 1 Timothy 1:16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would BELIEVE in him and receive eternal life.
@@amyrenee1361 JESUS BETRAYED Judas didn’t betray jesus. According to the bible Satan did. Then Satan entered into Judas. Judas did not say come on in and use me Satan. In this first verse Judas already had no will. He was already destined to be the scapegoat. John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. Then Satan entered into Judas. Here also Judas did not say come on in and use me Satan. So much for his free will. Luke 22:1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover. 2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people. 3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. 4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them. Then jesus told him. He didn’t ask Judas. Are you going to go do something? No. DO it! What you are about to do. Again in his verse, where was Judas’ free will. He had been chosen to betray jesus way before he was conceived. Judas could not say no, because that was already “God’s PLAN”. Where was Judas free will here? John 13:27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. Therefore, Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” In these verses, was Judas excluded to what he could say? He was in all his existence to be the one that was going to betray jesus. He had no free will. Jeremiah 29:11: "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". Were was Judas future in god’s plan? Your future was planned to betray me declares jesus. That’s quite a future thanks. So, how did Judas die? Here is one of the major controversy in the gospels. Two different stories about the same subject with two different outcomes. Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. Judas, went and hanged himself according the story in Matthew. Now read the next verse. Acts 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. 17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. 1: headfirst 2: without deliberation : recklessly rushes headlong into danger 3: without pause or delay. Judas must have been in a hurry. So, his bully exploded. "Burst asunder" means to crack or crash, or to burst open with a crack. Now, you tell me along with the gospel of Matthew why the discrepancy? How did Judas die?
@ so these are contradictions. Jesus also said to bring people to him so he could kill them . He told his disciples to carry a sword and he said he’s not here for peace, but war. Also to turn families against each other.. Also to burn in hell. We can get the golden rule all by itself for other places and other religions without all the other parts of the horror story
A couple of quotes from Mark Twain: "The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible." "You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories and you say that we are the ones that need help?" Expose the dirt without talkin' trash. Make the problem the problem and not the follower of the problem. Thanks for your scholarship!
If Christianity is true then it breaks my heart knowing God condemned practically "newborn" Adam and Eve for something which wasn't their fault in the first place. Like imagine being so cruel you sentence your newborn kids to death for playing with matches when they weren't even aware of danger and even crueller, you condemn your newborns entire bloodline with same punishment, that's not justice that's pure evil
If God had not set them up to fail there would of never been a need for redemption thru religion. Never forget the God Christians follow made the snake and the fruit tree too.
And don't forget the reason for Noah's Flood. The Bible says it was because the entire human race had become wicked. Why was everyone wicked? Because some kind of giant spirit beings known as Nephilim came to earth and had sex with "any woman they wanted," and their offspring corrupted everyone. God apparently couldn't be bothered to protect His cherished creation. So again, humans were blamed for the doings of these more powerful beings. And then the one "good" family He saved started "sinning" again before the Ark was even dry. Everywhere you turn in the Bible is just BS.
Think about the all seeing , all knowing , allways present God who exists outside of time in Heaven. Nothing on Earth can happen without his knowledge or permission. How did anything in thevBible happen unless it was already part of his plan. Think our God should start taking responsibility for the shit he sets up instead of condemning people for carrying out his will.@benjamintrevino325
@@taurus4x And it seems you are eating of that tree that he told you and Adam not to eat of. He didn't create robots, although even robots malfunction. But I understand that Christianity has caused many people to turn against God because they don't know God either. That's evident by what you see going on in these so-called churches. Christianity has nothing to do with God. It's a concoction of different faiths, beliefs, denominations and religions. All of them being false. Jesus never mentioned anything about Christianity. But God doesn't have anything to prove to you. You didn't make him, he made you. So, what are you doing with the life he gave you?
No where in scripture say Adam and Eve were new born, second it also say GOD walk with Adam in the cool of the evening, so Adam would have been Intimate with God and God also set boundaries just like any good parent does. Thirdly the devil who was a fallen angel came to deceive Adam and Eve, he did so by a serpent, And then we see the warning of GOD come true. They died
Uhh... You got it backwards @ 4:20 - He forgives the sins (and the crowd is like... Ok, did you actually do anything - he's still paralyzed? Lol!), and he says "What're you guys laughing about? Which do you think is easier? Forgiving eternal sins, or healing physical ailments? But, to help prove that I can do the former, I'll do the EASY trick of doing the latter." Anyway, this video makes a really good point. Jesus could forgive sins without blood sacrifices, so why can't Yhwh?
@@tomasrocha6139 Great! YHWH can do it too! So the basis of Christianity ("blood sacrifice is necessary for YHWH to forgive") is completely incoherent.
@@philojudaeusofalexandria9556 This is in no way the basis of Christianity. Satisfaction theology is one of numerous schools of thought on the purpose of the crucifixion. Like, seriously, there's at least 7 commonly accepted schools of thought.
"Jesus could forgive sins without blood sacrifices, so why can't Yhwh?" Jesus *is* yhwh and there is no forgiveness in the sense that sins just vanish, like student debt. The debt still exists but someone else pays it. That would be Jesus IF you repent and ask for it. He would apparently rather not ("Let this cup pass from me") but is willing if YOU are willing to change.
You're correct, but this only applies to Western Christianity which holds the penal substitution model of atonement. In the East Jesus didn't die because you did something bad, He died to destroy death.
And they wanted to get rid of him because he was walking around calling himself King when there was already an emperor not because he was “spreading love”, it was treason. He was the figurehead of a rebel cult. Then a new emperor adopted his ways and made Christianity the official state religion, the empire crumbled within a 2 generations. Sounds a little too familiar.
@@Sanctifying Of course he did. For part of a weekend. Again, not a sacrifice. And actually I was thinking more the Jews than the Romans. But if you wanna say that your god found a way to "kill" Jesus without getting His Own Hands bloody, well, how gangster of him.
8:30 "... a righterous judge" who condemned all human, even a newborn baby, for the mistake of someone else did? Not so righterous when you think about it, aye? Edit: and it's strangely weird that the preacher gets so enthusiastic all the way to holding his hand to describe "tore flesh" when in fact he is speaking of someone else taking the blame for him, or anyone in that matter.
I never understood that aspect of Christianity. God tells us we have to forgive others even if they don't ask for it but he can't forgive us unless there's a sacrifice in our behalf.
The reason we're to forgive others without them asking for it is different from the ideaof God forgiving us through a sacrifice. We're to forgive because it frees us from the mental and possible physical problems that come from holding on to things mentally. The forgiveness involving a sacrifice involves us being forgiven with the knowledge that there is a penalty for the "crime" which cannot be dealt with without payment which would bring us to regret the crime (or sin) and have a mindset of changing mentally.
Christians literally worship a god who used one of his own sons to perform a human sacrifice with solely to appease himself.
@@phunter24 Great explanation! I might cite you :P Do you take any issue though with the idea that we're to ask for forgiveness from debts AS WE forgive our debtors while GOD YHWH still requires death? I know this goes into divine justice and all but it seems muddy to think BOTH Jesus fulfilled the will of God, yet only God required Jesus to die for sin. Jesus teachings taken alone with surrounding mysticism makes sense and universalizes with the idea of One or The All found in all religions (that are coherent). But with the idea like atonement and penal sub...it gets again, muddy.
It's because the god stuff is badly veiled blood magic, while the forgive each other stuff is trying to get along with each other without the badly veiled blood magic crap.
The only way it makes sense to me is that a super duper entity forgiving even the worst things we do means forgiveness is always possible. But people can forgive, or not, without such a notion. It is tied into the "how can you expect to be forgiven (for whatever your transgressions) if you don't forgive?" A nice idea I suppose, but psychology isn't so neat and tidy.
Everyone is guilty of sin. I knew a vicar once; one day, he told me he had his push bike stolen. What shall I do? I said, on Sunday, during the Semon, read out the Ten Commandments, and when you come to, you shall not steal. You should look around and see if someone is looking guilty? I saw him the next day and asked him how it went.? He said I started to read out the Ten Commandments, when I said you shall not commit adultery I remembered where I left my bike.
Thanks for another great video.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 👍
😅😂
❤❤😂😮😮😮😮
👊😂😂😂😂
@@kenharris5390 sin is defined as an affront to God and includes things like tattoos and Blended fabrics. And if you ever dust off your Old Testament and actually read it, turn one page past the Ten Commandments and that's where you find all the slavery Commandments
Man, I love your videos. You've got a great attitude and some fun turns of phrase. But my favourite has to be: "Jesus be Jesusin'". So good.
😂
I joined your channel, @Holy Koolaid! Great video on forgiveness; I never considered your point of view before. I'm looking forward to more videos. Be well!
Thank you so much. I'm glad to hear you liked that video. It wasn't a particularly popular video, but I thought it was worth sharing that perspective. That said, members like you allow me to cover important topics whether or not they're trendy topics that go viral.
Religion has always been useful for power and money.
Not really. The early Christians were literally murdered for their beliefs
In multiple ways
what hasn't? that is the work of people not a book or religion. give credit and blame to who it belongs not to inanimate objects.
And most importantly control...
Ah, the all knowing claming to be all knowing as a subject of human manipulation. If you weren’t controlled, you wouldn’t have internet access right now. The irony is flavorful from the blind that seek self righteous validation. Dunning Kruger effect at its finest.
The most pure truth I noticed on this planet is this: Most people are full of shit.
Me too. I think my second wife was the only person I really ever knew that was not full of shit. And she died of cancer three years ago, that’s why I know there’s no freaking God. Otherwise IT would’ve taken me; I’d be the logical one to die early after smoking, drinking every day for 40+ years… Don’t give me weren’t wrong I wouldn’t change anything but I also love cannabis. However it’s screwed up my lungs now and I have to live without her and she was the only thing that really… I wanted to live for in life. Now she’s gone and I’m pissed!
@@davidthompson7817 I hear you, bro. Stay pissed, and turn that anger to something productive. So many people out there need help. So many truths need to be defended. So much shit needs to be exposed.
Yep. Right on. The Bible has been debunked.
That's why some of us take fiber pills.
You are 100% correct. That's why we all need the way shown by the Bible and follow the teachings of Jesus (who was God in flesh)
Glad to see ya back man
Yo, I used to be a serious Christian who knew these stories inside out, and I lost faith/became agnostic a few months ago (started doubting 10 months ago), and I also decided like 6 years ago not to shy away from any questions or doubts I had.
HOW DID I NOT REALIZE THIS
Better late than never. Welcome to reality and the art of critical thinking. Throwing off religious indoctrination is never easy. Most never will.
@@markoulton3342 Is it really critical thinking to misunderstand a simple bible verse? I'm all for critical thinking, logic, science, evidence. But using "critical thinking" as an excuse for misunderstanding a recorded account and twisting a supposed theology around that misunderstanding? That's just ignorance and denial. I would not trust this channel to give me the time of day.
@@thischristian8317 My comment had nothing to do with the content of this video and everything to do with what claire-tk4do said. That should've been obvious as I posted under her comment. Personally, I don't find this video very compelling or interesting. I already had more than enough reasons to reject Christianity and religion in general long ago. After 6 decades, I'm more certain of that than ever. BTW, critical thinking is how you learn to think for yourself and not be a sheep in someone's flock. It's how you separate the wheat from the chaff concerning knowledge. Here's something I've learned, never debate religion or the existence of a god with a believer. It's a waste of time. Why? Because faith requires no proof. You don't question, you just accept. So much in the bible is just ludicrous, yet far too many take it at face value. That's ignorance.
@@thischristian8317 So many doctrines come out of misunderstanding simple bible verses....so which understanding is the "correct" one?
@@thischristian8317claiming there’s a misunderstanding in how you look at a verse implies a “correct” way of viewing it. The bible teaches correct way of looking at things - whereas critical thinking doesn’t. It is about deconstructing it, breaking everything apart and questioning everything. And from to come to a consensus after the process of thinking for yourself, and not what a book told you is true.
Because well, how do you know if the book is lying to you? You don’t know until you test it and throw it in the flames.
Welcome back Thomas. We missed your postings.
I was found guilty of sins thousands of years before I was born and some dude sacrificed himself for the sins that I haven't even had a chance to do? Good to know.
"I was found guilty of sins thousands of years before I was born"
How many since then?
Yeah that was one major point to me. I certainly was Not born with sin. It's all a bunch of 💩
You’re literally speaking from pure ignorance… 🤦🏽♂️
There is the curse of sin and the act of sinning. Jesus came to defeat sin and death as a curse upon mankind, not stop people from sinning. That’s a different topic that deals with discipleship, which has nothing to do with being saved. Sin as a curse results in death, for believer and unbeliever, BUT believers have the imputed righteousness of Christ, thus despite sinning in act, they are still saved thanks to the blood of Christ. Now, for a closer inspection regarding the act of sinning, sin(ing) leads to a physical death for all (but everyone is a sinner, hence our need for Christ), but no one goes to hell for sinning, you go to hell for not believing in Christ (John 3:18). Why? Because life is in the blood, and Christ IS life, therefore if you reject Christ, you reject life, and where there is no life, there is only death. There is no life outside of Christ… this is why people go to hell, not because they’re “being bad.” How you live your life has NOTHING to do with going to Heaven… but it will ruin your life here.
@@Sharon-fw9qw
Everyone was born into sin. That’s why we all die. Sin = death. Until you can find me a way to live forever like Jesus (God) did, you are under sin just as much as everyone else, including me, though it’s “was” for me since I’m no longer under the Law/sin but grace through Christ.
@@Sharon-fw9qw _I certainly was Not born with sin_
You showed that you were born with sin the first time you told you mom 'no.' Then, of course, you bit your sister, took your brother's toy, stole from a classmate and cheated on a test. Yes, we are all born with sin. We just call it 'the human condition' and excuse it because 'we're all that way,' but it's still sin.
I'm so glad you're back and creating your great content again! I can't imagine how difficult it is being one of the public faces of what so many of us are dealing with in the US today. Good for you for taking care of yourself. Your channel plus those of other recovering fundamentalists and critical scholars have helped me get through the deconstruction of my religious upbringing, and I thank you for that. Never doubt that you are making a difference.
I am a retired pastor. I've never believed in the virgin birth and I taught folks in my congregations that Jesus did NOT die for our sins, but because the Romans tortured and killed him. I also doubt the great rabbii ever claimed to be the messiah and he certainly would never have approoved of anyone worshipping him. Good work! I would send you $$$ if I could but I live on $400 per month. Blessings to you and your efforts to engage folks in critical thinking. I would love to be of assistance to you.
So you were a pastor of satan?
How can you live on $400 per month? That would not be enough? Do you live in the USA?
Wasn't the virgin birth story part of the Roman/Hellenistic influence on this Hebrew religious sect.
Frankly virgin birth goes back to Isis and Osiris.
This seems like a fake comment
As a child sitting in church I felt like it was all Hokum. Now as an adult I know it is
i loved the typical Sunday - church (Sunday school) and then dinner with my grandparents and various aunts/uncles. but the church & parents would stress, for instance,that is was a sin to lie & I must never - but they all lied all the time, even in church. that started my "hey, wait a minute..." moments.
Christianity - where a wrongful conviction makes everything right?
Kinda like the elections.
That's the backwards logic of Christianity. And it's been given room over millennia to have it's followers justify anything, even to the point of calling "good evil and evil good". And we know what Isaiah 5:20 states. Or not 😸.
@@CatDaddyGuitar
All priests profess to represent the Lord, or what is the same thing, the Lord God, or Sun of Summer (living God); nothing would induce them to personate Satan, or the same Sun in winter (dead God). This would be blasphemy and an unpardonable sin against the Holy Ghost!
“Woe unto them that call evil (winter) good, and good (summer) evil; that put darkness (6 nights Gen 1) for light (6 days Gen 1), and light for darkness that put bitter (winter) for sweet (summer) and sweet for bitter. Isaiah 5.20.
"I (the Sun) form the light and create darkness; I make peace (summer), and create evil (winter). I, the Lord (Sun) do all these things" (v. 7). Having first created peace (summer) and lastly evil (winter), the Lord sends down rain, for with winter the rainy season begins, from the skies that the seed (winter wheat) just sown may germinate and produce a crop, and through it, salvation (v. 8). Winter having fairly set in, the Lord denounces the cold, blustering and rainy days, calling them "potsherds" a word, says Gesenius, "put for anything mean and contemptible," such as winter was ever esteemed by the suffering poor. Isa 45
It certainly seems reminiscent of two wrongs make a right. Except in Christianity it's multiple wrongs making a right. You have to begin with original sin being inherited vicariously from our ancestors. Then you have a vindictive God who just won't forgive without a human blood sacrifice. Then you get punishment of the one guy who allegedly never did anything wrong... EVER. Then that punishment is transfered, again vicariously as retribution for all of humanity's wrongs. But also the three days of suffering (assuming jesus was in hell) is allowed as penance to offset infinite suffering for each person. BUT then its only for in-group, so not for ALL of our sins. Also, suffering continues and nobody is forgiven in any meaningful way that isn't identical to belivers forgiving themselves via an imaginary friend. Also, the forgiveness is not negotiated from any fellow human victims of the perpetrators wrongdoing, by apology to them, so they get cut out of the retribution deal. The wrongdoer never learns responsibility and finally everything gets 'put right' by the pretentious, self-righteous fantasy of justice that only exists in the head of the Christian.
So it's more like ten wrongs that don't make ANY right.
3 in 1, call it monotheistic, that Christianity right there
I always love it when you drop a new video.
A video from Holy Koolaid on my birthday weekend??? GREAT! FINALLY SOMETHING GOOD
Happy birthday 🎂🥳
You are providing a needed and valuable service! The big question is: what about all the people who lived before Jesus came on the scene, what happens to them? And all the people who have never heard of Jesus? Religion is so easily shown to be mostly ridiculous.
They will be judged on a fair scale knowing they never heard of Jesus. God isn't trying to scam anyone and judge on unfair merits. He is trying to develop a relationship with us, teach us, and develop us to the next stage of life.
Unlike the implication of this video, Jesus's death on the cross was symbolic for us to see if we will embrace him and give our lives to God the way Jesus gave his life to us.
There's no gotcha in Christianity, it's your choice what to do with the information you have encountered about God and what he hopes for you and your life.
That's something that was thought of early on and Paul addresses it in Romans 2. It's where they get the idea that we all have god's objective morality written on our hearts so everyone knows what right and wrong is. tl;dr you're still fucked because you should've known better
Don't you know?! The Mormons are performing proxy baptisms for all those people.
this was one of the first arguments that made the religion not stick to me, the idea that the old testament god had his chosen people and the promised land and somehow in the new testament with jesus he didn't keep them on board, although he did all the miracles right under their eyes, which kind of proves how underwhelming the real jesus probably was...
@@meowmix4jo
Funny... The Dark God predates YHWH... Humans of the Earth.
As a woman, I just believe in a loving creator of the Universe, guess you can say I am agnostic. I feel all man made religions discriminate against women. I feel Jesus was a kind man who traveled and spread kindness and fought against the evil establishment at the time and was murdered for that. I love him and carry him in my heart for that reason. I think the writers of the Bible just made him out to be more then he was or claimed to be.
Former Episcopalian Priest Alan Watts claimes that telling people not to think sinful thoughts is like telling them not to think of a green elephant in his video called Genuine 😜.
As a Christian, I’m sympathetic to this criticism since I believe it comes from some poor theology regarding atonement. Most Evangelicals and Protestants believe in Penal Substitution, which states God had to punish Jesus to forgive humanity, but that view is both unsupported by church history, and not adhered to by most Catholics and Orthodox.
I think I agree with you that that particular theology is incorrect, but what do you believe is the correct answer?
@@Azravald There are several good answers that are compatible with each other, but I believe the main reason is Christus Victor. The church has historically understood that the main purpose was to defeat Satan, sin, and death.
Really? I thought that point of view IS strongly supported by Catholics and orthodox
@@robertunderwood1011 Catholics prefer what’s called the satisfaction view of atonement while Orthodox tend to emphasise the recapitulation view.
Yes it wasn’t god punishing Jesus but god (Jesus) dying for us!
Yes, this was the thing that made me less catholic and more agnostic. If God was all powerful, all knowing, and all good, why did he need to do all of this? Why did he need to sacrifice himself? Why hasnt he convinced the world he was the one true god? Why does he allow bloodshed in his name? Why does he allow all these to happen when he has the three "omnis". "Because Jesus wanted to teach us a lesson" Why does he need to teach us if he can magically implant things in our heads without consequence? "Because he doesnt want to interfere with our free will" Why cant he do it without interfering with free will? I thought he was all powerfull. "He sacrificed himself for our sins, so the least you could do is put faith in him" What sacrifice was there? God didnt lose anything, there is no value in a sacrifice if nothing was lost. "God works in mysterious ways" Ah yes, God leaves us hanging and unable to understand, but by not understanding we are sent to eternal torment, god doesnt have the goodness in him to prevent this which he knows will happen? I though god forgave past, present, and future sins, why do we still go to hell, if he already forgave everything past, present, future? All this comes out as some kind of asshole of a God who made false promises and when asked to verify, just ghosts us. I used to be a serious catholic, going to confession 2-3 times a week, and never missing mass. I was driven out of the faith by the very faith itself because of all these mental gymnastics teachers in religion class gave me (yes i even graduated from a catholic school and college) that never truly answered my questions about the faith itself.
Good questions! Read Caesar’s Messiah. It is at least one believable explanation.
_Why did he need to sacrifice himself?_
Because we don't believe his love. He had to show us.
_Why does he need to teach us if he can magically implant things in our heads without consequence?_
'Why doesn't God make it easy for us?' is our underlying question. We have a responsibility to change the wrong that we have freely chosen. A benevolent dictator does not make us right. Only we can do that, and we only know what's right if we follow Christ. 'Follow me,' Jesus said.
@craigsmith1443 if we dont believe his love, make us believe it then without interfereing with free will, instead of sending us to eternal torment, since he seemingly doesnt love us enough to directly tell us with words we would instantly understand, which we know he knows but willingly doesnt. And besides what sacrifice was actually there if God didnt lose anything in the first place, doesnt it make his sacrifice meaningles? If he knows why then communicate it, i spent my childhood in prayer asking for an answer that never came.
And if god actually communicated with us properly in a way we imperfect beings would understand, which we know he can do, hes God after all, then everyone would be accepting the responsibility.
I followed, but in the time i was lost, he wasnt there to talk to me. I loved God, and i believed he loved me, but he then abandoned me in my time of need.
@@mlmf2012 _if we dont believe his love, make us believe it then without interfereing with free will_
Notice the illogic of that demand? 'Make' 'without interfering with free will'? That doesn't work.
Wittgenstein said, _Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language._
_instead of sending us to eternal torment_
God does not. If we go, we go by our own choice. Since you know the consequences of your decisions, then make the right decision. Don't complain about the decision that you have to make, all of life is like that. Make the right decision.
_And besides what sacrifice was actually there if God didnt lose anything in the first place, doesnt it make his sacrifice meaningles?_
You misunderstand the 'sacrifice.' Jesus's sacrifice was to show us the power of God's love. The Empire killed him cruelly after his own people betrayed him as they did the prophets before him. Everybody was against him, yet even that couldn't stop God's love. Whenever you look at the Crucifixion, remember the Resurrection. They are one.
_i spent my childhood in prayer asking for an answer that never came_
Why ask the right question and expect the wrong answer? You have the Bible. You have prayer. You have free will. You have a God who loves you enough to lead you in the right way to life and love and joy. the right thing to do would be to follow, as Jesus said, 'Follow me.'
@craigsmith1443 God has the power to do the illogical, he has the 3 omnis right? Its but a trivial task for him to make us understand the illogical. Regarding the sacrifice, i go back to the first question, why he couldnt just speak his love in a way everyone can perfectly understand? Why do we get eternal torment for not understanding if he perfectly loves us, even when he knew his actions would be misunderstood by people. His sacrifice is meaningless since he failed to communicate that he loves us, and again, he didnt lose anything. He is God, his death is meaninless. I prayed for him to ask for the meaning to all of these questions. And like i said i was deep into faith, i was expecting an answer to my misunderstandings. I was a child when i prayed for these answers, and i didnt stop praying till i was in 4th year college. I didnt just magically stop believing in the catholic faith after asking once, it took more than a decade of being lost hoping god would answer me where not a single christian teacher or priest could. Youre here just assuming i just wanted the answer i want to hear, when that couldnt be further from the truth.
My former Xian self wouldn't have bought this argument. I would've said that Jesus' sacrificial death reached both forward and backward in time. The paralytic's sins were forgiven because of it even though it hadn't happened yet in linear time.
Still completely bogus, but at the time I would have had a response that I found theologically consistent.
Jesus, the sun, is crucified twice, first at the autumn equinox (Egypt) and again at Calvary (spring equinox).
Yes, but the individual didn't have to believe it happened (impossible - since it was in the future) to be forgiven. So Yhwh can indeed just forgive everyone and not have it conditional on some sort of ritual (belief, baptism, repenting, etc).
What caused you to leave the faith then?
@@baxterwilliams2170 The cumulative failure of Christianity to hold up to scrutiny from any quarter: archaeology, textual criticism, science, common sense. The main problem for me was the hiddenness of God, but it wasn't at all the only problem.
@@david_deboehe isnt hidden at all go outside.
Imagine how disappointed you'd be if you thought you were going to be the at the helm of a heavenly army ushering in a new age of liberty and freedom for the Jewish people, and it just turns out you were crucified for being an insurrectionist and there was no big guy upstairs looking out for you.
It'd be enough to make you say "Eloi Eloi Lama Sabachthani"
Hey, I think that's the name of the new drummer for Slipknot
Imagine reading John 18:36
@@fluffysheap
Imagine believing....because the bible told me so...🙄
How are atheists so bad at understanding Christianity. It’s not even hard which makes me wonder if some of yall are willfully misinterpreting the gospel on purpose just to dunk on a strawman. If you want your criticism to stick shouldn’t you at least understand the thing you’re criticizing
as an atheist, it feels like admitting to be a sinner, owning this, is like signing a waiver to given up your chances to go to heaven, they've been bamboozled, they all go to hell...
Your work is so damn important! 🙏 Thank U so much!
Mike Winger gives a great analogy to an important flaw in your logic- namely, that Christ’s payment for sin must be paid prior to forgiveness. By this logic, you should have to pay prior to ordering a meal at a restaurant. I mean, isn’t everyone there eating (receiving) prior to payment (sacrificing)? Yes. The implied promise of payment has been made the moment you order. And ALL of OT and NT believers were forgiven for their sins through Christ’s sacrifice, even millennia before the actual payment was made on the cross. It’s also the payment that saves me 2,000 years later.
And I pray, you too!
Oh, and the phrase “their faith” likely included BOTH the paralyzed man and his friends. Just sayin.
Chritians believe that if you're not a Christian, you'd end up in hell, no matter how holy and good you are. But that being Christians, no matter how many times you still do bad, and horrible things, so long as you "confess" your sins, go to church, read the Bible, you can go to heaven.
@@sootuckchoong7077 Not exactly.
So why does a all powerful and all knowing magical guy need payment for anything. It all seems weirdly complicated for a guy that can just speak existence into existence.
@@josiahvonb3426 Love is not love when it’s compulsory. He granted free will, we failed, we have a rebellious nature, God in his love offers the ultimate payment for our rebellion through His Son Jesus, we have the choice to receive it as our person payment for our sin, and God’s eternal justice for sin is paid. And it WILL be paid one way or the other-either through his Son’s sacrifice or by ours.
I find it so interesting how quick we are to want an infinitely LOVING God, but not an infinitely JUST God. We can’t fathom the depths of His love, and neither can we fathom the fullness of His justice and holiness. The point is, he’s God, we’re not, and we can only grab hold of His mercy and grace offered to us completely free!
The beautiful thing is that when we do, He justifies us, redeems us , adopts us, changes us, provides for us, guides us, comforts us, protects us, blesses us, resides in us, rewards us, and saves us both now and for eternity. Amazing. I don’t deserve ANY of it!
Awesome way to put it, here is a passage that goes along:
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. ~Romans 3:21-26
This is why I'm a Quaker. The only sure shared belief is that belief is not important. It's how we live.
Then why have a belief at all if you can’t possibly know what belief is true and what isn’t?
@Ayylmaogoodsir Ha, that's everyone. The difference is that some people admit the limits of their knowledge and accept that, while others convince themselves that they can't possibly be wrong.
If Jesus dying on the cross for three hours is paying the penalty for my sins, then my punishment should actually be to die on a cross for three hours, not burn in hell for all eternity. In order for Jesus to pay the penalty for my sins, he would have to go to hell for all eternity! Was he willing to do that? DID he do that? NO! Therefore Jesus did not pay the penalty for my sins or the sins or anyone else. Your welcome!
makes a ton of sense 👍👍
Actually Jesus offers to give you life and love in abundance, and all he ask in return is some acknowledgement... Billions of humans, mocking him and killing each other for 1000's of years just to whine like God owes you something... Yeah I'd say that gets tiring after awhile... Eternal Hell is more of a pagan thing, but even still you'd be sending yourself there for reasons I mentioned.... God is not your servant! All God's ever tried to do is love his people and this is the world you've chosen instead.
@@TH-cam_MusicStyle The Old Testament is full of God not living his creations very well.
@saldiven2009 ,
Aside from Human misinterpretations and corrupted Kings... God's final judgments during those times we're on those that were considered "irredeemable"... After some warning or another, they either rebelled, disobeyed, or didn't care either way. These things led to their downfall...
Man turns his back to God, that comes with consequences. As with any sort of existing authority.
@saldiven2009 ,
Today is no different from then... Which is why we preach repentance. It's easy for anyone to become a villan, it takes courage to be a hero and humility to do the right thing...
If God created you, why call God evil if you are not the same?
God is the *breath of life* in all things. 🙏🏼
I am a fully fledged cristian, i studied the bible in greek and hebrew, i have traced the significance and meaning of what the bible says and have a LOT against the way that most of the churches teach and preach, most people speak of the bible in memorized ways and most people who claim to be christian dont make a dive in what it actually means, just follow blindly what they have been exposed to and their favorite pastor, wether corrupt or not.
I was raised catholic and the contradictions between faith based on fear verses what is right is what drove me away from ALL organized religion. faith in a divine being or beings is fine but what is in your heart is the way. I always tell people, "good people do bad things for good reasons, and bad people do good things for bad reasons. The good that comes from either isn't what should matter but what the motivation was in the first place."
@@diswhoiaml3470 The Christians have the belief that "The road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions™."
The Muslims believe that "God will judge our actions based on our intentions."
Which one is right?
A: BOTH. God will judge us based on our TRUE intentions, not the ones we RATIONALIZED because we preferred that outcome. And then send us to Hell for those intentions.
Unless we ask for mercy ion the Day of Days, and He forgives us.
@@TimeSurfer206 The problem is that using the logic of what various sacred books point out, you will find contradictions again and again and logic is rarely used to interpret what they are trying to tell us with symbols.
In both conceptions it is an external agent who judges our actions in life and we wonder how a God of Love will blame us for something we did not commit (Catholicism with original sin) or will judge and condemn us for all eternity (Judaism, Christianity, Islam)
I'll give you a clue: in ancient Egypt, Osiris was the representation of God who guarded the doors of the underworld and when appearing before him, the soul was placed on a scale with a feather and if it weighed less it was allowed to advance while that if it weighed more (guilts, unresolved anxieties, attachments) it was returned to the world (reincarnated) to try again.
An example is that of suicides who are said to be unable to enter Paradise (peace and unity), but not because they are declared guilty but because of the burdens (guilt, unresolved anxieties, attachments) as explained in the film "What Dreams May Eat" with Robin Williams when he arrives with his wife and she was still in the same cycle as when he died.
Jesus explained it with the parable of the prodigal son. God is Father and is waiting for us to return, being the ones who delay returning.
@@TimeSurfer206
Abraham was righteous for his faith, not necessarily because he did good
"dont make a dive in what it actually means,"
There is no IT. The bible is a collection of writings; poetry, letters, policy statements; sometimes revelations. Anyway, the process used in discovering what Paul meant when he wrote to the Corinthians would require some knowledge of Corinthians (and Paul).
The legend returns
He remememebered his password
You think this jibberish is 'legendary'? I would have made this video when I was 10, it is so childish and superficial and simply sets up a straw man. Of course Christ could forgive sins, He is the Eternal Son of God, God from God. He is not just some 'dude'.
He does not dwell in time and space, the Cross transcends time and BTW the thief was forgiven DURING the Crucifixion. Our redemption is not just about the Cross, it's also about Christ's decent into hades and Resurrection.
There is no teaching that God could not forgive sins before the Crucifixion in time and space.
This is such a pathetic argument that it shows the poor guy who made this video is pretty desperate.
More MYTH than "legend".
This was sloppy.
Your God-damn right 😁👍
@@marcokite are you seriously going with the classic "god can do anything" retcon? Lmao. You are coming from the perspective that the bible is completely perfect so no matter what anyone points out or says you will do the necessary mental gymnastics to hold onto that belief
Wait! Was I actually convinced that human sacrifice, ritual cannibalism and genital mutilation was a good idea?
Well put
Did we ever 🙃
The cannibalism makes sense. If you have already sacrificed someone, why let them go to waste?
Oh, I’m glad we’re on the same page! Abortion and transitioning kids are bad things!
And we all came from an incestuous family, not once, but twice.
Hi Daniel. Genital mutilation, otherwise called "castration", was necessary so the rich polygamists could have eunuchs to guard their harems of women. The ancient Jews prepared children for this future possibility by introducing the ritual of circumcision. There was no way Jesus would say anything that ran counter to the fat-cats' interests. Cheers, P.R.
The Jesus Christ sacrifice claim was so absurd that I never believed it. I wasn’t expected to believe it, because I was never under pressure to accept anything that couldn’t be demonstrated to be factual. Even my working career depended upon things that could be demonstrated to be factual. If this god character supposedly created heaven & hell, he can amend his own damn laws. But the truth is that there is no evidence for the existence of divine law, and I refuse to accept any assertions of guilt, in the absence of evidence for divine law.
This was spot on Thomas! ❤
There actually nothing it can destroy Christianity but atheism and the emptiness you believe on will be over soon
Are you able to sum up his argument in a syllogism of some kind?
@@MatthewFearnley No God, no Dignity only the nothing that atheism gives to your life (God will judge you too, do not think to escape, actually you will be weaker as a guess alone weak person). Your socket cult called atheism will die soon and we will forget about you, none will even notice it..
Glad you are back, will make a donation. Hope it helps. As a 'PK', I've been on a journey of what I believe and what i don't. I'm 65 and have been skeptical since i was young, and none of it made sense to me, but I clung to beliefs because it was what I knew, and my family is very Christian. I was raised very middle of the road Methodist Methodist and we didn't take everything in the Bible literally so it was easier for me to question things.
I provided an answer above if you care to read it. I pray God takes away the blinders that the enemy has on you and that your able to truly see God's sacrifice on the cross for you and me and everyone. I would copy and paste it here if you don't find it. God bless.
@@Chavez.E Before you pluck the mote from your neighbors eye, you need to get the beam from your own first.
@@Chavez.E The problem is, the blinders might be on someone else, namely you. Why do you need a blood sacrifice to come back to God? Didn't God himself say he "DESIRES MERCY, NOT SACRIFICE"? I pray that the Lord will lead you to quit gaslighting people based on the evil doctrines DEVISED BY MAN, and no, you don't "have the truth" no matter how much you try to convince yourself of it. (hint: NO ONE does!) He who has ears, listen, but I'm afraid yours are terminally closed.
The purpose of the healing accounts in the scriptures cited was to demonstrate the power of God, as well as God’s desire to redeem those who exercise faith in the sacrifice of Jesus…
why aren't those healing like the ones in the bible still not happening today? look at how many christians that are sick are in the hospitals dying and being keep alive by mechanical means not by divine intervention. they're only stories in the bible they're not true.
I’m more agnostic now, but I grew up Lutheran. I had thought that all sin from all time past present and future was put on the cross. God wouldn’t be limited to the flow of time like us humans. I think CS Lewis made a good point how god surrounds all of existence outside of time and space as we know it.
A bit sci-fi-y, wibbly wobbly, but interesting.
Makes me think... Time travel is actually a divine gift 🎉🎉🥳🥳
Woo! Kool-Aid is back!
Oh Yeah!
If you haven’t already please talk about escaping the fear of hell even though I’m no longer Christian it continues to haunt me.
I believe that fear is sin, and FEAR is also False Evidence Appearing Real. Fear
No, you are the same as me, or him, or her. Enquire and Explore.
...there is no he'll. OR heaven.
It is just a carrot and stick motivation to get sheep in line...
he does already have a video on the subject titled “How to Get Over the Fear of Hell”, you can find it by entering the title into the youtube search bar.
for more help with this problem you can google “Recovering from Religion”, go to their website, click on the resources tab, and type “fear of hell” into the search bar. it will give you videos and other content that will go into depth about the topic. good luck :)
he does already have a video on the subject titled “How to Get Over the Fear of Hell”, you can find it by entering the title into the youtube search bar.
for more help with this problem you can google “Recovering from Religion”, go to their website, click on the resources tab, and type “fear of hell” into the search bar. it will give you videos and other content that will go into depth about the topic. good luck :)
Hell and judgment are very real, and according to scripture, everyone knows this regardless of how much they pretend not to.
Great to see you getting back on the saddle Thomas. I hope you've got some much needed rest and are able to get back into the swing of things making content. I've really missed your voice in this space. Your channel was one of the very first things I found at the beginning of my deconversion and it's got a special place in my heart.
Many people’s kids die. Horribly Tragically. Even (sadly) some at their own hands. And they’re gone forever.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…
Jesus died and was gone for a few days-God got him back. Did God really give that much? Parents who lose their children suffer so much more.
Serious.
It’s a myth, no legend. Just a story made for power and control.
First time I've ever heard an American use the term "bollocks" let alone in the right context 😅😅😅
That's funny!!!! His use of "bollocks" was one of the few things he got right in this eight minute video. 🍾
He was quoting Jesus right then, too! I'm not British, and it also was surprising to me. I was like, "Oh, I bet he's gotten a hold of an Anglican bible again..."
@@jag74656 Of course! Your interpretation of the passages is obviously more correct than his!
Probably time for yo to wake-up buddy. We both know there is no proof that your gif exists.
Yeah, sounded funny somehow
Glad you're back! And I'd never noticed that when I was a believer. Good lord, I was brainwashed 🤦♀️
I knew it intuitively but yeah same here. It was a subtle form of brainwashing though, more like having trust that people you cared for and respected knew better than you.
Who is "Good lord"? Are you still "brainwashed"?
@@mcgillstern it is only an expression. You're asking if they are still brainwashed, if you take everything literal, you should know you can't literally wash your brain.
Well done! I captured what I've learned and I am still learning. Cheers!
“Because the crowd was thicker than your mom” 🤣
I love how he reminds the audience that there were MANY so-called Jewish "Prophets" around the SAME TIME as Jesus, and explains what the Jewish messiah was ACTUALLY SUPPOSED to do, which is a great reason for Jewish people to NOT believe the Messiah has come yet (there is no "messiah" of course, and Judaism is not more real than Christianity). ALSO he explains WHY there were so many prophets. Excellent video 😊
Judaism is more real than Christianity...
And unicorns are more real than dragons.😉
@@steakknives We *do* have komodo dragons...
I found it stupidly interesting when I first saw a painting of "St. George and the dragon" and how ridiculously small the "dragon" was. Even ol' George's horse was small (in religious paintings of the time, the "important" figure was the largest... because that person was, you know, "important"). Aside from the fact that the "dragon" looked like it was pieced together from various other critters, I don't think ol' St. George would've stood a chance against, say, Smaug from "The Hobbit". One whack with his tail and St. George would've been canned Spam. 😆
@@steakknives Typing error. I meant to write that Judaism is NOT more real than Christianity.
Technically Judaism is "more real than Christianity", since the statement "I have a pet dragon" is less false than the statement "I have 3 pet dragons who can calculate my taxes and they ate the president once"
@@centaur7607 Judaism predates Christianity, and Christianity started out as a Jewish sect before becoming a competing religion. That's why some people (especially religious Jews) like to say that Judaism more "real". Of course that's not actually the case, "earlier" doesn't mean "truer"
God said " Thou shall not kill" Then he said to Joshua go and " Kill" every living soul in Jericho. Makes perfect sense doesn't it ???
You have to take it in context. What were the people doing that our LORD didn’t see that was right?
A lot of times the people were sacrificing their children to other gods!!
Why was the temple destroyed 1st time?
@@jeremyshaffer8777 and the Israelites were sinless ? Thou shalt not kill is a Commandment . Wasn't Abraham quite happy to kill his son? Is God going to punish the Israelis for the slaughter of Palestinian CHILDREN in Gaza ?
The Pauline doctrine that became Christian dogma is easily explained. Paul was a Pharisee, and what did observant Jews do? Sacrificed animals at the temple. For the periodic forgiveness of their people. And all the disciples were from the same tradition. What can be more obvious? This was a simple logical step, especially as temple sacrifice was impossible any longer after the destruction of the temple.
Wait are you saying the logical step is forgiveness without sacrifice? Because the sacrifice of lamb of God started before Paul converted, and it's obvious he explored and fleshed out that idea in some of his letters. 1 Corinthians 10 for example. Christians today still celebrate Christ's sacrifice in the Holy Mass, or Devine Liturgy, the way that Paul described it.
@@zacharybean1253 When a sick person could not be taken into Jesus' presence on the ground because of the crowd, he was lifted in.
Jesus said 'your sins are forgiven.' There had not yet been any sacrifice, since Jesus was still in his three year ministry.
@phillipschuman4307 I really don't know what you're trying to prove there. That's an extremely deep scene of Christ Forgiving sins before his sacrifice. It specifically shows that he's the lamb of God, which is setting up his whole sacrifice to begin with. He's filling the entire mystery of sacrifice. It's not proving what you think it is.
@@zacharybean1253 I'm not trying to prove anything. As a Christian, I accept these doctrines as a matter of faith. Separately from that, I am discussing other ideas and concepts.
Abraham lived hundreds of years before Jesus' sacrifice. Yet the scripture states 'his faith was credited to him as righteousness.' Plain faith in God, not specifically about a much later sacrifice he didn't know about. Also, not following the law (which had not yet been given to Israel until far later, as well).
John the Baptist preached the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, and it was a true teaching. So these are interesting truths from the scripture to be reconciled.
Simple Bhuddist theory(not comfortable) forgiveness is like respect and love, they must all be Earned. Salvation is the same. No comfort, just hard truths you can't avoid. No wonder Bhuddism doesn't get many converts....
I prefer Buddhist Methodist combo... It was the only way to get past that Great Firewall so I could do self surgery
We kill everything that moves just to survive and pretend to be saints. What a joke.
"We kill everything that moves"
Who is WE? I don't do that; must be you!
So fucken true
"We kill everything that moves"
No I don't. Have you been doing that?
If only we'd TAKEN it as a joke...
The thing is, it's not even for survival -- just taste and convenience. Many of us can make choices that refrain from killing sentient beings, but 99% of us humans pay for slaughter to happen on our behalf.
Great pickup Koolaid. Let's hope this verse discussion goes viral.
I was surprised by what you said, because as a self-instructed Christian, I have publicly taught for about 20 years that the one and only thing necessary for sins to be forgiven is for God to show us mercy. Not that Jesus didn't pay for our sins, but that sacrifices can only work if God chooses to accept them. I had to come to that conclusion to make sense of the bible. So those verses don't really undermine Christianity, they just undermines standard dogma. I know dozens of examples of that. Sometimes I forget how different my beliefs are from standard dogma.
So I'm curious. In your theology, what was the purpose of Jesus' death if God could have just chosen to show mercy on us instead of requiring a sacrifice? And what do you do with Hebrews 9?
@@montagdp His death served many purposes. One was to show the way. "Take up your cross and follow me." Of course, God could have "just chosen" many things, I do not believe God is constrained by anything other than his own will and nature. Just because God can just forgive us because he is merciful, doesn't mean he chooses to do it that way. So it doesn't render the sacrifice of Christ without purpose. He chose the sacrifice of Christ because it pleased him. The wages of sin is death, and that is a debt that God demands be paid. The way he determined to do that is according to what is right in God's eyes. I don't disagree with anything in Hebrews 9, but if a sacrifice is acceptable to God, it is because God, in his mercy, recieves it. God does not have to accept anyone's sacrifices, and there are a number of examples where he did not accept a sacrifice.
@PaulStringini Hebrews 9:22 says that without shedding of blood, there can be no forgiveness of sins. It sounds like you're trying to have it both ways. Let me ask you to consider a different point of view: what if Jesus was just a guy, but his followers thought he was the Messiah, so they came up with all this convoluted theology came as a means to explain why he died? After all, no one had an idea about a suffering Messiah until after Jesus died.
@@montagdp "without shedding of blood, there can be no forgiveness of sins." Sure but that's only true because God ordains it. One of my key principles is that God does not bow to an external set of rules. It's not about having it both ways, it's really more about perspective. Nothing has to be any other way than God wills it. So far as your suggestion, I've considered that point of view. My faith in Jesus is not based on the testimony of his disciples, though that does play a role. The reason I still believe in God is because one time when I called on the name of Jesus, he responded with power. That experience drove most of my doubts away.
So god sacrificed himself to himself for my sins that I hadn’t committed yet, but he demonstrated beforehand that he didn’t really need to, but still didn’t so he could say he did. Got it
As a former Christian, I'm pretty sure how Christians would respond here. The story goes that Jesus' death didn't just save people at the time of his death and thence after, but that supposed event retroactively saved those prior to the cross because of their faith in a coming Messiah. So the paralytic in the story believed in Jesus' ability to save him. But Jesus didn't arbitrarily forgive him then, but did so *on the basis of what he was going to do* (i.e., die on the cross for the sins of the world). See Romans 4:18-25, for example. So, God is still bloodthirsty.
And then there's the the question of the people BEFORE the Hebrews... Since nobody had heard of a Messiah or Monotheism much, for that matter.
Indeed. Christians would simply say God was more merciful back then and allowed people with little to no knowledge of Christ to be saved simply by trusting in God, "as seen in creation." The story was aparently revealed progressively. So God saved based on one's level of revelation. We now who have a more full explanation of things are required to believe in Christ (Acts 17:30). It's definitely reaching.
@@timfelten3305 yes, and "as seen in creation" could be interpreted (and is) as some other god than the Christian one. Vague apologetics.
Yep! It's definitely a slippery slope.
@@timfelten3305 you forgot, they can't explain trinity without committing a single heresy
God creates Adam & Eve. Puts them in a Garden where a Tree of Knowledge is a sin if you eat from it. He made them to fail. He made all of us sinful before we get to do anything. Then time passes and God talks to Abraham about sacrificing his son but at the last second changes His mind. Then time passes and God has an Angel tell Mary "you're gonna have God's baby! Congratulations!" and she doesn't even get an orgasm out of that. So time passes and Jesus is sacrificed and his blood cleans all the misdeeds of all of humanity provided all of humanity believes in this bull crap.
However, before his sacrifice, Jesus is able to forgive the sins of those presented before him without having actually done the sacrifice. So this presumption that God can't forgive us of our sins without the blood sacrifice is a lie. He CAN. He CHOOSES not to, except in two instances where Jesus actually does and it's in the bible. Matt chapter 9 versus 1-8 and also in Mark and Luke. It's IN the bible. Jesus forgives before he sacrifices himself, so he never needed to do that cuz GOD never needed to do that. Why? Cuz he's GOD! He works in mysterious ways! No, not really. Follow:
Who makes the rules? God did. His multiverse. His rules. So he can break his own rules. So why even make us imperfect in the first place? Or why say imperfection is sin? Cuz God said? But he makes the rules, right? We all fall short of the glory of God and why is that? Cuz that's how God made us, so we'd have to sacrifice our own freedoms in order to CHOOSE to be with Him and NOT use the Knowledge from The Tree! Yeah! THAT tree OVER THERE that he put in the Garden so Eve would take a bite! GOD did that! For our sins..? No. Knowledge IS sin. Cuz Knowledge is power and Ignorance is bliss. Either refuse Knowledge and give in to God so he feels better about himself, or stay curious but SO don't drink this Kool-Aid cuz it's poison.
Even if you watch this video and STILL choose to drink from that Kool-Aid and worship a god that would make you broken so he could fix you only he doesn't really fix you cuz he likes you broken. Even if you STILL confess your sins to Him and kneel before Him, it doesn't matter. The very pillar upon all this is founded upon is sand on a beach. You worship a false god that doesn't even exist but IF he existed, he's not worthy of your worship cuz he made you broken so your unflappable devotion would fix Him.
I think we're done here.
Well said my friend!!!!!
Also, if his death was necessary, why do so many Christians hate Jews for Killing Jesus? I made a video about this years ago. If Jesus had a purpose to come here and die for us, then what the Pharisees did was essential to redemption. In which case they would be fulfilling God's will. But yet so many Christians hate modern Jews would nothing to do with anything even if Jesus did exist and was executed, for their supposed ancestors doing something that God wanted to happen in the first place.
I'm Christian. I have to correct other believers with this sentiment. John 10:18 No one takes my life from me. I give my life of my own free will. I have the authority to give my life, and I have the authority to take my life back again.
@@cliffordmedley8731 right, so no reason for them to hate Jews. Especially not modern Jews, that weren't alive back then.
I'm Hebrew/Jewish. When confronted with this Christian mind virus I tell them, "Had the Temple leaders NOT had Him crucified, NOT ONE OF YOU would have the opportunity to join in HIS suffering and be saved!"
I have yet to receive rebuttal. Shalom 😇
Hating Jews is racism, not Christian. Jesus is the greatest Jew who ever lived! But Christians are also sinners, and many are racist as well. Being Christian is not the same as being perfect. Christians are only those who recognize they are sinners and trust in Jesus to save them from their sin. Over time, the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives enables Christians to become more like Jesus, and less like sinners.
The rebuttal is that none of this is real @@noway905
As a spiritual Christian, I've always thought this idea of redemption by blood to be intrinsically absurd. Conceptually, though forgiveness from a creator who constructed this "veil of tears" would logically arise from this deity when they have endured the vicissitudes of human existence. We didn't create this complex and are not guilty for surviving it by our own humble means.
There...
Fixed it for you.
Happy to have you back. Your voice is needed now more than ever.
If God is a God of love, then why should we fear him.
But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!
Luke 12:5
@jiohdi
1/ Absurd Stone Age and Bronze Age threats don't cut it any more in 2024. Sorry.
2/ Why would anyone fear a supposedly 'loving' and 'forgiving' thing unless there was actually something to fear, namely being tortured for all eternity?
3/ The god of the bible is a child-abuser and torturer which makes terrorist threats to its own supposed 'children' according to the book it supposedly 'inspired' about itself!
4/ Not for me, thanks.
It is not the fear of murderer of maniac, it is like a fear of father. Of course we are all fear our fathers, because they have some sort of power in our family. But, you know, it is more like fear of disappointing him. The same is with God. Everything is about growth over the sin. And God will forgive our mistakes, the intention is important. If you deny God, and prefer permanent death in the Hell, it is also your choice. But it is much better to live in connection with God. Try to pray with all your heart warmth, like you are talking with your Father, who created everything and who can understand why did you sin. Talk with him and feel something.God bless you.
@@Sanchellios
1/ Please be the first and demonstrate that any god thing, including whatever you think your god is, has ever existed at any time in human history before asking people to speak to it. Where is your god located?
3/ Then please demonstrate that a torture chamber called hell has ever existed in human history. Where is hell located?
@@niblick616 You could reach the God by prayer and your feelings. I did it this way. Anyway, I know, that if you have no intention to believe in God, in other words, to answer the God, you will never accept such kind of an answer. For me, it is clear that God exist, because I have relations with him, and prayer is in the center of this relations. Some time ago it also was nonsense for me, I did not believed it. But the difference is, that with God I finally reached that centered way of life, without anxiety and fear. Year ago I've read Yukio Mishima commentary on Hagakure, and questioned myself: For what I'm ready to die?
I was thinking a lot. And not so long ago I've established my relationships with God, and I know, that I'm ready to sacrifice my life for god. Now I'm writing to you with opened heart and hope you will accept my answer, even it not precisely answers your question (at all), but I wish you will find the way to God. Because, you know, I really with to make one more human happy. But if you do not believe me - it's okay. I'm just sharing my view. And the answer to your question - God is in your heart. And Hell is also in your heart. The difference is if you live a sinful life, or try to improve yourself, to live or even try to live a saint life.
800 billion planets in the milky Way galaxy alone, but some Earthlings think they're special.
we have consciousness, the rest doesn't , there is something fundamentally separating ourself from this world
@@planteruines5619 Have you been to every one of those 800 billion planets to be able to make that statement?
Lmk when you find intelligent life
@@planteruines5619 I'd love to see the source to backup that statement. The James Webb telescope has already proven that the universe is far bigger that any human has ever thought. However you claim to know with certainty that our planet is the only only to have consciousness. That's a cliam that requires irrefutable evidence to back up.
@@dazzag So far we are the ONLY planet with documented life, and the ONLY species with advanced civilisation is a religious species: homo sapiens. Is this so difficult for atheists to comprehend? it's called empirical evidence, based on inductive reasoning, rendering preliminary conclusions in the balance of probabilities. Or in a simple word "science".
I am thankful that I an not a Judea/Christian/Moslem so that the term sin does not apply to me. I don’t need somebodies definition of a god to forgive my sins. My non sins are not going to damn me for an eternity in the boogeyman’s idea of a hell.
I won’t be stopping anyone from believing that stuff, but if they are correct then odds are they are worshipping the wrong god anyway so they will be sitting right next to me on a burning bench. But he loves you!
Vicarious redemption
"Do you believe Jesus died for our sins? What does 'Jesus died for our sins' even mean? What would have been the consequences if he hadn't? If original sin caused suffering and death, and Jesus died to pay for our sins, then what is the point of eternal payment for sins in Hell?
Do you believe that Maui tried to give humans immortality by turning into a worm and crawling up Hine-nui-te-pō's (goddess of death) vagina but being crushed by her vaginal obsidian teeth?
Do you believe that Prometheus let an eagle eat his liver every day so that we could have fire?
If Jesus was able to forgive sins by just saying they were forgiven why did he need to die on a cross to forgive them (Luke 5:20)? When did Jesus say that he was dying to atone for sins?
Which Old Testament scriptures support the notion that sins are forgiven by the atoning death of the Messiah (Luke 24:45-47)? How could Jesus die for sins of others if 'every man shall be put to death for his own sin' (Deuteronomy 24:16) and the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father (Ezekiel 18:20)?
Why couldn't an omnipotent god forgive the sins of humanity without anyone being executed?
If whether we spend eternity with or apart from Yahweh depends on how we exercise our free will, then what was the point of Jesus dying? If Jesus died for our sins, what difference does it make how we exercise our free will? If this is up to Yahweh and Yahweh loves us, then why didn't Yahweh just admit everyone into Heaven straight away without Jesus or anyone dying? If it is not up to us and not up to Yahweh, then what is it up to? Who created Hell?
How exactly does one person dying have anything to do with the sins committed by other people? Do you think that the ancient Israelite practice of sending a live (scape)goat into the wilderness to die had some effect on anyone's sins? Do you think that the annual slaughter at Hajj of hundreds of thousands of animals by Muslims is effective in bringing the participants closer to Allah? Does the slaughter of animals in the annual Hindu Gadhimai festival make wishes come true? Do you think that Jesus dying on a cross had some effect on anyone's sins?
Do you think that the human sacrifices of the Aztecs were effective in appeasing their gods? Do you think that the human sacrifice of Jesus (Hebrews 9:22, Hebrews 10:10), the convenant transgressors (Joshua 7:15), pagan priests (2 Kings 23:20 ), or thirty-two Midianites (Numbers 31:28-40) was effective in appeasing your god?
How does a system of vicarious redemption promote moral accountability? Should people be allowed to substitute themselves for convicted murderers on death row?
If Jesus died to pay for our sins, then exactly whom did he pay? And how did the recipient of this payment benefit from this payment?
If Jesus could work miracles and could have saved himself from crucifixion, and therefore went through with the crucifixion voluntarily, how can he be classed among actual victims whose suffering is not voluntary?
If the fair price to pay for sin is eternal conscious torment in Hell, and if Jesus paid for our sins, shouldn't Jesus be suffering eternal conscious torment in Hell?
If Jesus paid for our sins at the cross as a sacrifice, why will temple sacrifices start again during the millennial reign of Jesus?
Is it virtuous for Yahweh to sacrifice itself to itself to appease itself in order to save us from itself? Is it virtuous for a soldier to throw himself on a grenade whose pin he pulled himself?
How was Jesus's death a 'sacrifice' for Yahweh if Yahweh can do anything and Jesus didn't stay dead and is now with Yahweh, who is also Jesus? How is it possible for Yahweh to permanently lose (sacrifice) anything? If Jesus came from and then went back to Heaven, wouldn't his 33 years on Earth be the real suffering and his six hours on the cross be a trivial and welcome exit method?"
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TORAH DOES NOT SUPPORT HUMAN SACRIFICE!!!! THAT IS A NEW TESTAMENT TEACHING, STOP IMPOSING ON TEXT!
and why dose doing MORE SIN remove and forgive sin? i have read "sin" is atualy "sin/cosin" or "sine and cosine" (the moon) in which the god of the moon one the names is "sin" kill innocent jesus? isent that SIN/evil? offing innocent animals? isent that SIN/evil? i wonder if these animal sacrafices, were to satan but peaople thught it was god?
The only thing I can advise you to do, if you are willing to change mind and open your heart to the truth of Christianity, read the books of Romans and Hebrews (in the New Testament), they answer all the questions/doubts you have listed here :)
@@alexshatterstar89 I have. They don't. Now go read the Bhagavad Gita.
I belong to denomination called Religious Science. And this is part of larger movement called New Thought Christianity, We don't teach the concept of "sin". We generally call it 'error' from which we can learn and correct course. And him dying on the cross and being resurrected, is viewed as proof of his words being divinely inspired. So this more or less, sidesteps the "Died for our sins" and focuses on the meaning his words. Christianity in general has always debated between faith vs works. I would put my entire movement on the side of works.
you are missing the point that they still had faith in the messiah that came that being jesus they believed the prophets of the old testament salvation has always been through faith but death was finally defeated at the cross
The irony, of course, is that the points made are just handwaved away, and recontextualized to fit.
The Bible is literally self contradicting in its claims, and the religious assertions that make up every denomination's particular theology, are all literally incompatible with their source material.
It's been a millenia or two now, and the people invested in performing mental gymnastics, engaging in sophistry, outright lying, or using psychologically abusive rhetoric in order to not have to face the incoherence of their religious assertions, seem pretty determined to keep doing everything and anything to not have to deal with that reality.
well said
Even with satan tempting Jesus, he quoted scripture against Jesus and Jesus quoted it back to counteract.
Even a gardening manual, taken out of context, can be used to drown roses in a pond, and dry out water lillies, and cover them with compost.
The bible is a collection of 66 books in the current protestant cannon, of course there are contradictions. Paul contradicts Jesus, but generally, the churches prefer paul, cause you can make a religion out of him!
Bums on seats. Money on the plate...
God is a loving and forgiving God, therefore there is no hell. Phillip understood this and wrote about it and that's why his apostle didn't make it to the Bible.
This is hell- violence, war, disease, mental illness, crime, corruption, rape, murder, child molestation, child abandonment, neglect, poverty, the list goes on--- welcome to hell!
… But there ARE also freethinking Christians, like myself, who do not believe the Bible is inerrant and also dislike weaponized Biblical Literal-ism. I enjoy listening to these types of videos because It’s a good idea to get a wide range of opinions from Atheists, Christians, Biblical Scholars, etc. Obviously, we don’t agree with every opinion thrown our way but it does pay to listen - and that’s why I’ll never sensor or block someone with a different idea.
It’s like what ReligionForBreakfast always says “Religions are internally diverse”, and I’m an example of that diversity. The words “all”, and “shared” in your description don't take the diverse, wider, and more open Christian viewpoint into account - which makes this video very easy to refute:
Yup! Christ forgave the Paralytic without any of that sacrifice stuff - pretty neat right? He has the power to do that without the sacrifice since he’s God.
This argument of "How did he forgive the Paralytic without the sacrifice" is similar to the argument people have been making for thousands of years about all those "edge cases" that God would have to handle somehow: The people who d1ed before Christ, the tribesmen, the babies who d1e, etc.
I don’t know HOW he will handle those things - or if the sacrifice will be a part of those edge cases - but this story tells me that it IS in fact possible for him to handle "edge case" forgiveness of sins since he's God.
The purpose of his sacrifice was the way for him to fulfill ancient prophecies, reveal himself as God, and open up that forgiveness to everyone. (and there's more stuff his sacrifice does too)
Also, you have to remember that certain things are highlighted in the Bible (Or any religious text for that matter) by the human writer to prove a point / in response to the intended audience of the day.
So I do believe the story of the paralyzed man and the prisoner on the cross did actually happen AND at the same time - they were put in the Bible as commentary. Commentary on his divinity.
I may not be 100% on the mark when I say this but I believe that the POINT of these verses is “Only God can can forgive sins, Christ can forgive sins (So he's God), we are sick people, and WE need Christ - there's nothing that we can do on our own”.
It’s not about baptism, it’s not about donating to the Church, It’s not about the societal position (gentile in the case of the prisoner), how sinless you've been in the past, or the Sabbath. It’s about recognizing you can’t make it and trusting in Christ.
So no. It does not undermine Christianity… it strengthens it … that’s why it was included.
From a purely logical point a view, almost everything that Christians say in defence of their religion is only meaningful to somebody who already believes. For instance a believer might say "You must believe because it says right here in the Bible." But part and parcel of being a non-believer is that I don't believe what it says in the Bible, so that argument completely fails. To have any chance of winning me over, you would need to come up with an argument that doesn't rely upon me already being a believer.
@@martymcfly1776 Agreed! That's because parts of the Bible is written to an audience who already believes, so that's what I mean by "it strengths it". It strengths it for believers. It's original point was to strengthen the new Christian movement for the 1st century Jew who already believes in God.
@@martymcfly1776I will also answer. God commands certain things of His servants and we just deliver them. I have seen power of them when one can bring themselves to believe and surrender that id why I do it and try to do it no matter what
@@warriorofthelord4142 Why is it that God never manifests himself. He never says anything, he never does anything, he never gives us any reason to believe. The only knowledge that we get of God comes third hand from individuals like yourself, who frankly I do not find to be the least bit convincing. It's almost as if - horrors - there was no God.
@@martymcfly1776 Because He already knows you just like He already knew me
God forced people into existence and they are victims of being created in the flawed and fallible way that god created them and the flawed and fallible way that god created them is their fault that god forced them into existence and created them that way.
Yeah, the way that I created you is your fault. How dare you be the way that I created you.
Nobody has responded to your excellent comments, What a surprise.
@@garythompson9452 If you or anybody else is worried, don't worry, because I forgive you for being the flawed and fallible way that god created you. lol
@@garythompson9452 If you're worried, don't worry because I forgive you for being the victim of being the flawed and fallible way that god created you.
The question of how the most loving entity would purposely bring people into existence knowing the risk makes no sense and I've never heard a good argument.. The Bible teaches God wants Glory and suggest people in hell achieves this so it's somehow a good thing lol. It be like me having children knowing that I'm going to have to punish them and give them never ending pain and still deciding to have children in the first place when I didn't have to.
I want all of you to get down on your hands and knees with your rumps up high so god knows that you're submissive and are willing to take whatever gods got coming to you for being the victims of being the flawed and fallible way that god created you.
Wow we did this passage TODAY in church, and this concept of forgiveness without the requirement of vicarious redemption NEVER occurred to me. Ouch! Plenty of other instances of this in gospels.
He had to die and rise again so we could be sure he was not a fake.
@@melindaedgington9925 He is God. Why couldn't he just make us believe? He could just directly impart the knowledge.
@@melindaedgington9925 He is God. Why couldn't he just make us believe? He could just directly impart the knowledge.
@@melindaedgington9925 Pretty lane magician trick. At least the OT god parted the Red Sea and caused work wide floods. If JC wanted to impress he should have ripped a chunk out of the moon and slam it into ocean or something...
@@2777dave Are you all that gullible? So if anybody shows you something in the scriptures and put their own twist to them, then you believe they discovered something nobody has seen before?
Jesus asked his disciples, Who do men say I am. Although Peter got the right answer, he still didn't understand the revelation of the Son of God at that time.
Matthew 16:22-23 (KJV) Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Now, does that mean Peter was of the devil? No. But many of you that say you are Christian or say you believe in Christ don't know what or who you are worshipping.
Ephesians 4:14 (KJV) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
1 Timothy 4:1-2 (KJV) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
If you are so easily persuaded then you don't have the faith you think you have.
Jesus came to teach us that the Kingdom of Heaven was inside each of us, not through powering-over or controlling others. Everything stands on that. Jesus doesn't need a bunch of self-righteous men in robes or suits fear-mongering and gate-keeping for him.
Subscribed, liked, and commented. Please keep doing what you are doing.
Thanks for your content, you are very much appreciated.
You are part of the very few voices of reason this current world needs
Great video! The whole blood sacrifice thing is such a giveaway that this entire theology is from the primitive ideal of blood-magic reigning supreme.
It proved absolutely... nothing
Romans 3:23-26
[23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [24] and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [25] whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. [26] It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
"this entire theology is from the primitive ideal of blood-magic reigning supreme."
The most primitive religions of them all ought to emanate from the first, true, religion. Primitive is good (in this context). Recent theological inventions not so good.
@@thomasmaughan4798 I have no reason to assume that the first religion or religions were true.
@@Dragumix "I have no reason to assume"
Congratulations; you are one of the rare individuals that postpones judgement until there's a reason to judge.
The earliest known organized form of a religion is at Gobekli Tepi although it is uncertain that "religion" existed as a separate entity or concept. For most of human history, culture, religion and government tend to be pretty much the same thing.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe
Never mind for a moment what exactly the word "true" means in the context of religion. If a thing really is a religion (Islam, Buddhism, Christianity) then it is "true religion" with true practices, truly held beliefs, and so on. Some of the "truth claims" are probably doubtful to nearly impossible of course; but does a blemish on a banana ruin the banana? Usually not.
So, it is reasonable (and sort of useless) to observe that all systems of belief contain a mixture of reliable truth claims and unverifiable truth claims and some claims extraordinarily unlikely to be strictly true.
This is true even for the religion called "Science" whose prophesying has had a terrible track record so far.
"Celebrating 50 years of Failed Climate Predictions"
"There’s an inner beauty to doomsday predictions: When one fails, make another.
(Photo by David James Henry, Wikimedia Commons)"
"In 1968, with world population at 3.5 billion (7.9 billion as of 2023), Erlich penned The Population Bomb and lobbed an incendiary grenade in the opening lines of his prologue: The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate"
Erlich will ultimately (probably) be correct but "Science" has a poor track record as to truth and certainty and the big questions When and How Much.
It's all because Judaism made good with God with sacrifices, including the "scape goat." Saul just built on that. Excuse me, Paul. The world's first super salesman. He had a perfectly good cult going, but he needed a NEED for your belief. Original sin.
Once I heard a radio preacher while on a road trip tell me that I was born into original sin. I told him, aloud, "Not me. I was born into original grace."
I am a non-salvific Christian, trying to live as he said we should. I have have a masters degree in theology which means nothing other than I think I know more than I do.
Glad to have you back.
I would have made this video when I was 10, it is so childish and superficial and simply sets up a straw man. Of course Christ could forgive sins, He is the Eternal Son of God, God from God. He is not just some 'dude'.
He does not dwell in time and space, the Cross transcends time and BTW the thief was forgiven DURING the Crucifixion. Our redemption is not just about the Cross, it's also about Christ's decent into hades and Resurrection.
There is no teaching that God could not forgive sins before the Crucifixion in time and space.
This is such a pathetic argument that it shows the poor guy who made this video is pretty desperate.
This is the kind of content that led me to support you on patreon
"If you don't sin, Jesus died for nothing." What? Well, I'm doing my part for you, Jesus.
Just to be clear I think it was an athiest that said that. Richard Dawkins I think
And some people that Rasputin fellow was hooked up with in Russia back in the day.
I don't sin, no one does, as it's an evil concept, made up to gaslight people.
Paul literally adresses that exact objection
@@loganmanderfield1162 Please feel free to post a verse or 10 by the mad liar, I'm sure they will be very convincing.
The concept of Jesus sacrificing himself for the atonement of our sins has roots in ancient Greek, Roman, and Eastern myths. These myths often featured gods or demigods who sacrificed part of their lives to save a family member, usually a brother or sister, from the realm of death. These stories were based on the idea of maintaining balance in nature and the universe. If someone wanted to leave the world of death, another person had to take their place. There are numerous examples where siblings made deals to swap places, either daily or seasonally.
This privilege was not available to all mortals, which is where Christianity introduced a significant change. Jesus, the Son of God, made a bargain with death, spending three days in hell instead of a mortal spending eternity there. This act was meant to preserve the balance in nature and the universe.
Interestingly, in Paul’s letters, Christians referred to themselves as brothers and sisters of Christ. This is because, in ancient myths, only family members, specifically brothers or sisters, would make such sacrifices. Therefore, by claiming to be a brother or sister of Christ, believers hoped to be saved by him, just as the ancient gods saved their siblings.
In contrast, Jewish tradition lacked such myths, focusing instead on different religious narratives and laws. This made the concept of Jesus’ sacrificial atonement less familiar and harder to accept.
Thus, Christianity’s spread was smoother in regions with similar mythological backgrounds, while it faced more resistance in cultures like the Jewish tradition, which lacked comparable narratives.
Wow, hello again, Thomas!
I just started viewing your content. I think this content has given me a sense of responsibility to protect others from falling prey to their emotions/nature. Thank you.
Even as a child the argument about Jesus buying for our sins made no sense to me
Right? I remember being around 6 years old. My parent’s friends thought it would give my mom a break if they took me to church with them for a few hours while my dad was at work since she also had 2 year old twins to deal with that the time. I was sitting in Sunday School hearing this story for the first time. The idea of having to have someone tortured and killed just so you could forgive someone else was terrifying. I remember thinking, “Who would my parents torture and kill in order to forgive me if I did something bad?” And my first concern was my twin brothers.
So, when I got home I asked my mom who they would kill if I was bad. She was furious that she had to explain that no one was going to die if I did something bad. 🤣🤣🤣
It’s heartbreaking to think of the mental torture these poor indoctrinated kids go through when they are literally told not to question the Bible or their God and just to believe it or they’ll be burning in fire for all eternity.
Would a just judge let Hilter go free? No, not one just judge would let him go free. God is the same way. The only difference is that Jesus can pay your fines, and if you accept him, you can go to heaven. If you have any questions, just ask and I am free to answer
Well doesn't make you look that bright rhen.
@@Biblereader919 Hold on here. Would a loving and just God have created Hitler in the first place, knowing exactly what he was going to do? The answer is no. God could’ve look at what Hitler was going to do and simply chose to not create him. So, God was certainly not concerned with what Hitler was going to do to HIS people (Jesus lived and died a Jew) and must have wanted them to be treated that way because he knew what was going to take place and watched it all happen.
DO NOT come at me with that “free will” BS! Unless you’re prepared to 1. Tell me the passage in the Bible that says we have free will. Good luck with that. I studied the Bible for 6 of my 8 years in College and there is absolutely nothing that says anything of the sort. We don’t even have the free will to not believe in God, let alone run about doing whatever we want because that would most certainly mess up Hod’s Devine Plan. Jeremiah 29:11 - “For I know the plans I have for you,” So, declares the LORD. 2. Explain why God was so willing to interfere with RAMESSES’ free will when they Bible clearly states that he was the one who interfered with Ramesses free will by “hardening his heart”, thereby preventing Ramesses from releasing the Hebrews when he was going to, just so God would have an excuse to torture the innocent children and animals of Egypt and if God can interfere with someone’s free will to send plagues he most certainly could’ve interfered with the free will of someone’s free will if they were doing something he had not planed to happen.
My advice is that you actually read the Bible before you go making yourself look foolish by defending the god you worship by making a lame attempt at minimizing the vile, evil and repugnant things he allowed to happen or actually did himself. He was proud of the disgusting things he did. So proud that he chose to have them written down so everyone ever born would know about them , so it seems quite blasphemous to negate the horrors he’s so proud of simply because his actions don’t align with your moral compass.
@@marcokite On the contrary. Someone with critical thinking skills would find it ridiculous to believe an omnipotent god would have to impregnate a child without consent, walk around for awhile telling people not to sin while he told his own disciples to steal a colt and its mother and exactly what to say IF they got caught ( instead of just ASKING the owner if they could have them and telling them who needed them), let people torture and murder him just so he could give up 3 days measly days and not even make it known to the world that he had risen again, just so men could say he did all of that because of our sins. There is absolutely nothing logical about having to come back as yourself or creating a child with a child ( without consent) that you intend to torture and kill just so you can forgive people for the sins you KNEW they were going to commit before you ever created them.
If people can forgive other people without killing ourselves or our only child then it sure seems like an omnipotent god could do the same. Especially when he’s the one who created evil and sin in the first place. So, that whole, “I’m going to create evil, create people who I know are going to do evil things, then torture them when they commit the evil acts that I created and know they are going to commit for all eternity.
This is why churches don’t allow people like you to question the Bible. You’re all told to not question God, but you never stop to ask yourselves why you shouldn’t. You’re all too damn afraid to question your god because you’re all absolutely terrified of what he’ll do to you if you do. Churches know that questions lead to doubt. Doubt leads to atheism and atheism leads to bankruptcy.
I was 8 years old when I started asking questions no one could answer and got kicked out of Sunday School for “causing doubt in the other kids” all because no one could tell me why an omnipotent God would even bother to create a tree that he didn’t want anyone to touch on the first place and why he would put it where people could touch it when my mom puts the scissors on top of the refrigerator, so I can’t touch them. All the other kids were like, “Yeah! That doesn’t make sense” and started talking about how their parents didn’t let them touch matches, or cookies, etc. and put them where they were simply out of reach. Kids were literally saying “God should know better and God is dumb” and then I said, “ That ark doesn’t make any sense either.” I was then told to stop talking and that was my last day in Sunday School. ROFLMFAO! I was 8 and had more sense than you.
So, don’t you dare attempt to disparage someone else critical thinking skills simply because you have none of your own and feel an overwhelming need to defend an omnipotent god who would never need a paltry, little human todo so in the first place.
Agape love is unconditional. That is what we are taught in church. Why do the major church leaders insist we give them money, power and control of our lives to go to heaven? Is not Gods love given freely and unconditionally. Maybe they think the sheep won't someday wake up and overthrow the. They obviously don't believe in God or the would not be pulling the crap they do.
The letters of Paul was nothing more than Jesus fanfic.
"Paul's" letters were written by Saul, who saw a parade coming and jumped in front of it to pretend he was leading it. Just one more in a long line of opportunistic con men.
@@RobertGarlinghouse It's fanfic. Nothing more, nothing less.
@@kellycochran6487 Saul wasn't a fan, Saul didn't actually believe a word of it. That's why he had no problem changing it when it suited him and flat out contradicting the word of Jesus when he chose. Particularly pertaining to women. Closeted Saul was terrified of them.
@@RobertGarlinghouse Didn't say he was a fan personally, he just wrote fanfic that morons took as canon.
@@RobertGarlinghousecan you give an example of Paul contradicting Jesus?
"You have not brought me sheep for burnt offerings, nor honored me with your sacrifices. I have not burdened you with grain offerings nor wearied you with demands for incense. You have not bought any fragrant calamus for me, or lavished on me the fat of your sacrifices. But you have burdened me with your sins and wearied me with your offenses. Yet, it is I who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more."
That just makes me think of some fatass rich guy laying on a fancy couch pissed at some servant because he didn't put enough paper umbrellas in his foo-foo drink.
😅🤣😅🤣😅🤣😅🤣😂🤡
And
And it's more proof that God is able to forgive sins without a blood sacrifice
What's that from? It was beautiful
I love your videos, and I know they are scripted, however, sometimes it would be good if you could slow down with the speech just a little bit.
I like it when I have a second to process and verbally imbibe what the speaker is saying.
- Peace
If he doesn't comply with your suggestion, you can always play the video at a slightly slower speed.
He doesn’t this to hide the untruths he speaks
Yup, if God didn't need a human sacrifice , he chose to have one. Just like he didn't need to make that ONE tree in the garden of Eden untouchable....but he chose to. God is the original tempter, not Satan.
When God asks us to forgive others, we are absorbing the justice due to them back on ourselves. Literally, turning the other cheek just means we are accepting what is rightfully theirs and we are suffering in their place. That's exactly what God did on the cross.
Amen, they think their comments deny years of theological studies
Bahahah more dumb bullshit Christian excuses using your own personal interpretations and biases and listening to bias theologians who are BIASED and have been debunked. You underestimate Atheists. You think you guys are right. Well guess what, yall been debunked
I think Christuans would argue, that it was easy for Jesus to forgive sins, because he knew he would give his life for all humankind.
But yes, a very good point, that it was easy for Jesus to forgive sins... even before his death.
Christians/the bible claim that we are made in the image of God. And we are commanded to forgive. So we - as fallible human beings are ordered to forgive, but the almighty, all powerful and all loving infallible God needs blood for it... That's so gross. There are many examples in the bible where God doesn't forgive.
_"There are many examples in the bible where God doesn't forgive."_
God punishes children for things that their fathers, grandfathers, great-grandfathers, and great-great grandfathers did. He is so proud of this that he repeated it four times in the Bible-
"I, the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."
(Exodus 20:5 , Deuteronomy 5:9)
"Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children unto the third and to the fourth generation."
(Exodus 34:7)
"Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."
(Numbers 14:18)
If you fail to follow all of God's commandments, God will curse your children-
"If thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day ... Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body."
(Deuteronomy 28:15-18)
And sometimes God slaughters children for the unspecified sins of their fathers-
"Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers."
(Isaiah 14:21)
@twitherspoon8954 yes exactly. Thanks for sharing! Most Christians I know don't even read the OT....
The cost of forgiveness depends on the hurt done. in the case of Jesus, he forgave all of humanity the damage we have done and the hurts we have caused from the time that man became man to the end of our history. That is huge. When I forgive, I forgive the small, small hurts I have receive.
The blood of Jesus is a picture or token of the cost of our sin. The full cost is much greater. And because it is born by the eternal Son of God the cost had no beginning nor will it have an end. It is always present just as time for God is always present.
@twitherspoon8954
There's a reason the Isrealites worship on Saturday
And Christians on Sunday
We are commanded to forgive because God forgives us, both in the Old Testament (in anticipation of the Crucifixion) and in the New Testament.
And the blood sacrifice is His own blood.
I can't understand how anyone believes unseen, unknowable nonsense just because some moldy old book says so. There are LOTS of moldy old religious texts. And they ALL more or less state they are true.
500yrs from now when everything is 100% digital a Harry Potter or Superman book will be found and the whole process will kick in again on humanity.
It will work because no one from now (2024) will be around to say the books were fictional.😂
Bruh. In my opinion you won "The dumbest comment of the day" award. But wait! Does my opinion exist!?!?!?! I never saw my opinion, but one moldy book says that I have free will.
If these 2 phrases are all you know to say about theology, then you're not even worth a second of my time, but I'll assume you know more than that so I ask you do debate me.
It's because, generally, they are indoctrinated since a young age
Unless the God of this "old book" answers back...
Maybe, just maybe some guys figured out that people back then thought shiny sky diamonds were deities and created the longest running scam known to man, religion.
All you have to do is say that the shiny sky diamond will be angry with you if you don’t worship it. The unintelligent will be scared. But don’t worry. If you give shiny money disc to anointed holy man, shiny sky diamond will forgive you. But only until next week Sunday because we need recurring income.
In leviticus 5.11 you can even get your sins forgiven by using flour as a sin offering.
In Hosea 6.6
For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.
God doesn't want sacrifices he wants you to repent and stop sinning.
The greek testament is so flawed it ridiculous. It's obvious christains don't read at all. That's not to say Torah doesn't have it's issues.
Jesus didn't die for our sins. He just had a bad weekend.
Then how are your sins forgiven?
@@davidlafleche1142 When I was Jewish I believed that you had to ask God directly to forgive you. (No guarantees that you got forgiven.) This was done on Yom Kippur, the day of atonement,the holiest of the holy days. It was a day of praying , fasting and self reflection. Now that I don't so much believe in "sin" anymore but we still do bad stuff, at least I do, occasionally, but I think it's best to try not to do bad stuff and to forgive yourself for messing up and try to make amends when possible. Now that I think abut it I wonder what Jesus, who never sinned, did on Yom Kippur? He was Jewish so he would have celebrated it.
@@nunyabiznazz2210 The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
@@davidlafleche1142 When you're not religious you don't have to make it right with a God you don't believe in. You do your best to make it right with those you've wronged and yourself. If you do the crime you do the time, there is no "get out of jail free" card, and I think though, it may be less pleasant, it is more fair.
@@davidlafleche1142
Who said there are sins?
Who said they need to be "forgiven"?
What does "forgiven" even mean?
Etc.
Currently you are simply regurgitating what you have have been indoctrinated with in the context of a form of entertainment
I'm a Quaker, keep in mind that I cannot speak for all Friends, we are a very diverse lot. I no longer believe in a propitiatory sacrifice. Today, I tend towards being a Non-Theistic Friend.
Hi Michael. I started as a bog-standard pew-warming half-hearted Protestant. I'm now a scientific Theist. Cheers, P.R.
@@philliprobinson7724 Thanks Phillip. I appreciate the support. 😀
@@michaelreale1847 Hi Michael. Thanks for your thanks, and I'll raise you one "thank"😆. When I was fifteen years old I realized that if God changed from being Jewish to being Christian, his door was open for further rebranding's. As the Yanks were shooting for the moon at the time, a nerd friend of mine and I agreed God had probably thrown in his lot with the enlightenment thinkers and was now a scientist-cum-engineer, but one with a strong moral streak. The bible God does change his mind at times.
Unlike you I kept the "Theism" but threw away the box it came in. Never mind, it probably doesn't matter to God what particular parody of him we believe in, I'm sure he / she's not the perfectly ruthless doctrinal pedant he or she is made out to be. The "bodge-job engineer" who evolved us would be a much more interesting person to talk to don't you think?
Thanks again, Cheers, P.R.
you don't have to be saved because the thief asked jesus to remember him when he entered into his kingdom. jesus didn't say I forgive you of your sins. he just said today you will be with me in paradise. so I don't have to ask to be saved and forgiven. I just have to tell jesus to remember me when he enters into his kingdom.
Wow, good catch. The contradictions are everywhere. No wonder they indoctrinate people quickly and put the hook in as deep as possible. Poison.
And yet the Bible says that Jesus says otherwise. You have to read the entirety of the four gospels. Jesus says you have to love God and love your neighbor as yourself.
@@amyrenee1361 WAS HE SAVED ON THE CROSS
You don't have to ask to have you sins forgiven because the thief asked jesus to remember him when he entered into his kingdom. jesus didn't say I forgive you of your sins. he just said today you will be with me in paradise. so I don't have to ask to be saved and forgiven. I just have to tell jesus to remember me when he enters into his kingdom. The price had not yet been paid. Jesus hadn’t died yet. So was he saved because he believed in jesus?
In John 3:16 the statement is if you BELIEVE. You don’t have to ask for forgiveness of your sins just BELIEVE.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who BELIEVES in him might not
perish but might have eternal life
Mark 1:15 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we BELIEVE that God will bring with Jesus those who
have fallen asleep in him.
Mark 16:16 Whoever BELIEVES and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Luke 8:50 Jesus said to Jairus, “Don't be afraid; just BELIEVE, and she will be healed”.
John 3:18 Whoever BELIEVES in him is not condemned, but whoever does not BELIEVE stands condemned already
because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
John 6:29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent.”
John 11:40 Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you BELIEVE, you will see the glory of God?”
John 14:1 Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; BELIEVE also in me.
John 20:29 Jesus said, “Because you have seen me, you have BELIEVED; blessed are those who have not seen and yet
Have BELIEVED”.
Acts 4:4 Many people BELIEVED after hearing Peter and John preach.
Acts 8:37 The Ethiopian Eunuch told Philip, "I BELIEVE that Jesus Christ is the Son of God".
Acts 16:31: "BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved"
Romans 5:12-21, Paul compares Adam's actions to the work of Christ, who died for sin to offer God's grace to all who
BELIEVE.
Romans 10:9: "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from
the dead, you will be saved" 10 For it is with your heart that you BELIEVE and are justified, and it is with your
mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
Hebrews 11:6 "He that cometh to God must BELIEVE that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek
him".
1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who BELIEVES that Jesus is the Son of God.
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who BELIEVE in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you
have eternal life. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must
believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to BELIEVE in him, but also to suffer for
him.
Galatians 3:22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given
through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who BELIEVE.
1 Timothy 1:16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might
display his immense patience as an example for those who would BELIEVE in him and receive eternal life.
@@amyrenee1361 JESUS BETRAYED
Judas didn’t betray jesus. According to the bible Satan did. Then Satan entered into Judas. Judas did not say come on in and use me Satan. In this first verse Judas already had no will. He was already destined to be the scapegoat.
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot
the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
Then Satan entered into Judas. Here also Judas did not say come on in and use me Satan. So much for his free will.
Luke 22:1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover. 2 And the chief priests and scribes
sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people. 3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot,
being of the number of the twelve. 4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains,
how he might betray him unto them.
Then jesus told him. He didn’t ask Judas. Are you going to go do something? No. DO it! What you are about to do. Again in his verse, where was Judas’ free will. He had been chosen to betray jesus way before he was conceived. Judas could not say no, because that was already “God’s PLAN”. Where was Judas free will here?
John 13:27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. Therefore, Jesus told him, “What you are about to
do, do quickly.”
In these verses, was Judas excluded to what he could say? He was in all his existence to be the one that was going to betray jesus. He had no free will.
Jeremiah 29:11: "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you,
plans to give you hope and a future".
Were was Judas future in god’s plan? Your future was planned to betray me declares jesus. That’s quite a future thanks.
So, how did Judas die? Here is one of the major controversy in the gospels. Two different stories about the same subject with two different outcomes.
Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought
again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the
innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the
temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Judas, went and hanged himself according the story in Matthew. Now read the next verse.
Acts 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David
spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. 17 For he was numbered with us, and
had obtained part of this ministry. 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling
headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
1: headfirst 2: without deliberation : recklessly rushes headlong into danger 3: without pause or delay. Judas must have been in a hurry. So, his bully exploded.
"Burst asunder" means to crack or crash, or to burst open with a crack.
Now, you tell me along with the gospel of Matthew why the discrepancy? How did Judas die?
@ so these are contradictions.
Jesus also said to bring people to him so he could kill them . He told his disciples to carry a sword and he said he’s not here for peace, but war. Also to turn families against each other..
Also to burn in hell.
We can get the golden rule all by itself for other places and other religions without all the other parts of the horror story
Do not cast pearls before swine
We have Scripture AND Tradition
And a Magisterium
Ignore the Literalists
A couple of quotes from Mark Twain: "The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible." "You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories and you say that we are the ones that need help?" Expose the dirt without talkin' trash. Make the problem the problem and not the follower of the problem. Thanks for your scholarship!
If Christianity is true then it breaks my heart knowing God condemned practically "newborn" Adam and Eve for something which wasn't their fault in the first place. Like imagine being so cruel you sentence your newborn kids to death for playing with matches when they weren't even aware of danger and even crueller, you condemn your newborns entire bloodline with same punishment, that's not justice that's pure evil
If God had not set them up to fail there would of never been a need for redemption thru religion. Never forget the God Christians follow made the snake and the fruit tree too.
And don't forget the reason for Noah's Flood.
The Bible says it was because the entire human race had become wicked. Why was everyone wicked? Because some kind of giant spirit beings known as Nephilim came to earth and had sex with "any woman they wanted," and their offspring corrupted everyone.
God apparently couldn't be bothered to protect His cherished creation.
So again, humans were blamed for the doings of these more powerful beings.
And then the one "good" family He saved started "sinning" again before the Ark was even dry.
Everywhere you turn in the Bible is just BS.
Think about the all seeing , all knowing , allways present God who exists outside of time in Heaven. Nothing on Earth can happen without his knowledge or permission. How did anything in thevBible happen unless it was already part of his plan. Think our God should start taking responsibility for the shit he sets up instead of condemning people for carrying out his will.@benjamintrevino325
@@taurus4x And it seems you are eating of that tree that he told you and Adam not to eat of. He didn't create robots, although even robots malfunction. But I understand that Christianity has caused many people to turn against God because they don't know God either. That's evident by what you see going on in these so-called churches.
Christianity has nothing to do with God. It's a concoction of different faiths, beliefs, denominations and religions. All of them being false. Jesus never mentioned anything about Christianity.
But God doesn't have anything to prove to you. You didn't make him, he made you. So, what are you doing with the life he gave you?
No where in scripture say Adam and Eve were new born, second it also say GOD walk with Adam in the cool of the evening, so Adam would have been Intimate with God and God also set boundaries just like any good parent does. Thirdly the devil who was a fallen angel came to deceive Adam and Eve, he did so by a serpent, And then we see the warning of GOD come true. They died
Uhh... You got it backwards @ 4:20 - He forgives the sins (and the crowd is like... Ok, did you actually do anything - he's still paralyzed? Lol!), and he says "What're you guys laughing about? Which do you think is easier? Forgiving eternal sins, or healing physical ailments? But, to help prove that I can do the former, I'll do the EASY trick of doing the latter."
Anyway, this video makes a really good point. Jesus could forgive sins without blood sacrifices, so why can't Yhwh?
In Jonah YHWH forgives Nineveh without any sacrifice
@@tomasrocha6139 Great! YHWH can do it too! So the basis of Christianity ("blood sacrifice is necessary for YHWH to forgive") is completely incoherent.
Cause it’s just mythology
@@philojudaeusofalexandria9556 This is in no way the basis of Christianity. Satisfaction theology is one of numerous schools of thought on the purpose of the crucifixion. Like, seriously, there's at least 7 commonly accepted schools of thought.
"Jesus could forgive sins without blood sacrifices, so why can't Yhwh?"
Jesus *is* yhwh and there is no forgiveness in the sense that sins just vanish, like student debt. The debt still exists but someone else pays it. That would be Jesus IF you repent and ask for it. He would apparently rather not ("Let this cup pass from me") but is willing if YOU are willing to change.
You're correct, but this only applies to Western Christianity which holds the penal substitution model of atonement. In the East Jesus didn't die because you did something bad, He died to destroy death.
he died to destroy death. make that an explainable statement. when will death be destroyed?
The idea of the Bible as being univocal, inspired, and inerrant is a dogma that, ironically, is not mentioned in the Bible itself.
2 Timothy 3:16
Actually, yes it is.
That's what all ignoramuses say.
Not to mention that the people who "sacrificed" Jesus wanted to be rid of him. That's not a sacrifice, that's just housecleaning.
And they wanted to get rid of him because he was walking around calling himself King when there was already an emperor not because he was “spreading love”, it was treason.
He was the figurehead of a rebel cult.
Then a new emperor adopted his ways and made Christianity the official state religion, the empire crumbled within a 2 generations.
Sounds a little too familiar.
What you said makes zero sense. The Romans who put him up there weren't trying to "Sacrifice" him. It was God's plan. God knew Jesus would be killed.
If that was all that was going on.
@@Sanctifying Of course he did. For part of a weekend. Again, not a sacrifice. And actually I was thinking more the Jews than the Romans. But if you wanna say that your god found a way to "kill" Jesus without getting His Own Hands bloody, well, how gangster of him.
People hiding in the dark don't like it when the sun shines on them
1:53 "If you don't sin, Jeezus died for nothing". Lol, good slogan for Vegas, even better for Mammon worshipping #ChINO #CONservatives.
8:30 "... a righterous judge" who condemned all human, even a newborn baby, for the mistake of someone else did? Not so righterous when you think about it, aye?
Edit: and it's strangely weird that the preacher gets so enthusiastic all the way to holding his hand to describe "tore flesh" when in fact he is speaking of someone else taking the blame for him, or anyone in that matter.