I got my husband to listen to today's video then I asked him if he wanted to hear this one. I had told him about it a month ago so he was interested and wanted to hear this one. Thank you so much for all the work you do.
Emma once retold Joseph as saying if Brigham were given leadership of the church, he would lead it straight to hell. Between polygamy, priesthood ban, Adam-God theory, and other perverse practices, he pretty much did just that. Unfortunately, remnants of these practices remain in the church today. However, that does not necessarily mean there is no good to be found in the church. I firmly believe The Book of Mormon is the Word of God, and many other tremendous parts of the Gospel of Christ have been restored. We'd be foolish to throw the baby out with the bath water merely because of some bad leaders along the way. It's up to each of us to come to a knowledge of the truth, and that is a personal journey which will require study and prayer.
I personally am wondering if they're trying to groom us to accept polygamy again. The sudden outpour in recent years of polygamy information and the effort the church is making to create and circulate fabricated stories about it and even add them into student manuals is just very like "Uhh....what are you up to guys? 😅" Especially knowing that a lot of this has started dropping when polygamy got decriminalized from a felony to a simple misdemeanor in Utah...I just feel like something's up. Its just all too all of the sudden for comfort to me. Great work as usual with your video~ 👏 Thanks for sharing!!!
The scriptures tell us that in these last days great knowledge would come forth. Look at the work being done to bring forth great knowledge.I believe Joseph, 132 problems, follow Christ and a bunch more who are digging deep while the church tries to hold them back from finding the knowledge. I used to think that great knowledge meant great advances in technology and science but not so much anymore. Myself, I don't think they will bring polygamy back and if they do then it will be the end of the church. I don't think they will get away with it a second time.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 Yeah I've noticed that too. It seems there's a great shift going on and hopefully the Lord will be able to bring some great correction to the church in the next few years as a result. I had that thought as well, but Idk either....it would have to become legal first, but if it did...our leaders still preach it's gonna come back before the second coming. I agree it'll cause quite an uproar if it happens again, but I do think something's up. All of these lies all of the sudden are just too weird. God is able to use them to reroute people to the truth, but that's just His agenda. I feel like the church leaders have another.
@@peachysparkles Wow, I didn't realize the leaders have been telling us that polygamy will return before Christ returns. I don't go to church much so there could be a lot of things being taught that I don't know about. Keep me posted please. TH-cam doesn't always notify me on comments so if I don't respond that is the reason. Thanks.
My thoughts exactly! Also, what looks to be Hyrum’s speech deleted on the draft history manuscript isn’t exactly the same speech word-for-word. There are some additions snuck in around the part when he starts talking about sealing by proxy.
I noticed that as well. Bullock's notes are ambiguous enough that they can be read as support for polygamous marriage sealings in heaven, although they don't specifically say that. But of course, by the mid-1850s, there was no doubt that Hyrum must have meant that, so they made sure that's what it said. I wish that we had an additional (good) version of notes from the talk to compare.
@@IBelieveJoseph i think one of us might have it switched here. 😅 I think it’s Bullock’s notes that make it clear Hyrum is anti-polygamy, which is the contemporaneous version and the one they deleted from JSP. There were some additions made to the draft manuscript that makes it more ambiguous to multiple sealings, but it’s still anti-polygamy enough that they decided to mark the whole thing out altogether and not include it in the final manuscript.
@@Maryel_R_R_Palmer You're right! Good catch. The draft history was clearly composed primarily from Bullock's notes, but they also clearly added some details. Still too unsafe, though--deleted.
Why does the Church have to manufacture the evidence of Joseph's polygamy? Very simple: If polygamy didn't come from Joseph, then Brigham Young was a damnable liar for saying that it did and teaching it as doctrine. That would put serious doubt in the idea that Young was a prophet of God rather than a tyrannical adulterous grifting usurper; and if that is removed, what does it say about the line of authority claimed by the Brethren today? "Joseph was innocent of polygamy" is the Achilles' heel of all of official Church history. If it's true, then the LDS Church itself is apostate. So, the Church will NEVER admit that to be the case, regardless of the available evidence.
The problem would not just be Brigham Young. The church would need to admit that Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow, and Joseph F. Smith, at the very least, lied under oath.
Joseph F. Smith actually stated that senior apostle to senior apostle succession was not inspired as well-in a national court of law even. He also said the apostles were not chosen by revelation either. So not only does Brigham Young's usurpation story show an illegitimate line of succession but one of our early presidents literally admitted it as well. The church has a page on these court sessions that these quotes come from, but the link they give to the them is broken. I found them anyway tho on Google books and the Library of Congress website. It was the proceedings for the Reed Smoot trial. It's a lot so I didn't read everything, but I read the interview parts with Pres. Smith and found these statements from him.
@@IBelieveJoseph Hey sorry for the late response! TH-cam is kinda terrible at showing me replies. Yes, I do have them!!! I can send them to you if you want.
I think it was wrong for the Joseph Smith papers to delete this talk. Also, its time the church stop implying the President of the church is infallible like the Catholics do with the pope. My belief is Joseph taught you can be sealed to multiple women in heaven. Like your first and second wife here. And that members of the church confused this with plural marriage being a good thing here.
I agree about deleting the talk. It’s hard to think it wasn’t in response to people questioning Joseph’s alleged polygamy, especially given the timing, their false excuses, and that there’s still an awful lot of “interim” content that’s still on the JSP website.
It sounds like you're describing at least two couples, Husband & Wife 1 and Husband & Wife 2, where Husband 1 and Husband 2 are married to both Wife 1 and Wife 2? I don't know of a place where that happens in the scriptures, let alone where God justifies it.
@@IBelieveJoseph what is the difference between polygamy and plural marriage? What is the difference between marriage and sealing? If you are misinformed your thesis is incorrect.
I think that the historical record is clear that Brigham Young was a liar and adulterer, and I find it difficult to believe that someone like that could be a prophet.
I believe Joseph Smith Jr practiced what he preached. The Prophet Joseph Smith never taught or lived polygamy, in fact, he said that if a person receives a message or revelation that contradicts a previous revelation you may know it is not of God but of Satan, who may appear as an angel of light to deceive. The following quote from the Prophet Joseph Smith shows that D&C 132 was in direct contradiction with previous revelations in D&C 42:22-26 and D&C 49: 15-17 and former section 101 of 1835 (Three Witnesses to this Truth). According to Emma, the Prophet's wife, Joseph never received D&C 132 revelation. So who wrote D&C 132? It was under Brigham Young's administration and contrary to God's eternal pattern. See MarriageAndPolygamy.
That's exactly what I've been saying to people. If an angel really did appear telling everyone to start sleeping with each other, practicing the religion of mating like animals then that would have indeed been the devil. But I get a lot of push back from people who are still in the mindset of eternal mating 🤷♀️🙈. It's quite embarrassing that we hold this mentality to such a high degree. I feel like all this polygamy suddenly being spoken of in great mass is because it's being revealed for what it really was.... Vile and disgusting.
I got my husband to listen to today's video then I asked him if he wanted to hear this one. I had told him about it a month ago so he was interested and wanted to hear this one. Thank you so much for all the work you do.
Thank you! I am glad that some people are finding value in it.
You are so welcome. @@IBelieveJoseph
Emma once retold Joseph as saying if Brigham were given leadership of the church, he would lead it straight to hell. Between polygamy, priesthood ban, Adam-God theory, and other perverse practices, he pretty much did just that. Unfortunately, remnants of these practices remain in the church today. However, that does not necessarily mean there is no good to be found in the church. I firmly believe The Book of Mormon is the Word of God, and many other tremendous parts of the Gospel of Christ have been restored. We'd be foolish to throw the baby out with the bath water merely because of some bad leaders along the way. It's up to each of us to come to a knowledge of the truth, and that is a personal journey which will require study and prayer.
well stated!
Excellent work!
Thanks!
Great investigative work!
Thank you!
So thankful you have these. It’s a matter of time when JS paper will be altered so badly we will have nothing
I hope not, but it's certainly possible.
I too believe Joseph
And Hyrum and Emma and W Marks…
btw the work is likely "scoring" (mispelled) Webster's includes being berated, scolded, and denounced, as definitions of being scored.
Great point about spelling!
Another well put together presentation. Keep it up.
Thanks, will do!
I don’t believe the ridiculous reasons either. Such lack of honesty is the reason why their membership is in rapid decline.
@kristinecase8602 That definitely might have something to do with it. Hopefully people keep their faith in Jesus when they leave.
Great video, well documented. It looks like he said “scolding the Elders”. Does that sound right?
That sounds right, but a couple of the letters look just like the way Woodruff makes the letter "e."
I personally am wondering if they're trying to groom us to accept polygamy again. The sudden outpour in recent years of polygamy information and the effort the church is making to create and circulate fabricated stories about it and even add them into student manuals is just very like "Uhh....what are you up to guys? 😅" Especially knowing that a lot of this has started dropping when polygamy got decriminalized from a felony to a simple misdemeanor in Utah...I just feel like something's up. Its just all too all of the sudden for comfort to me.
Great work as usual with your video~ 👏 Thanks for sharing!!!
The scriptures tell us that in these last days great knowledge would come forth. Look at the work being done to bring forth great knowledge.I believe Joseph, 132 problems, follow Christ and a bunch more who are digging deep while the church tries to hold them back from finding the knowledge. I used to think that great knowledge meant great advances in technology and science but not so much anymore. Myself, I don't think they will bring polygamy back and if they do then it will be the end of the church. I don't think they will get away with it a second time.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 Yeah I've noticed that too. It seems there's a great shift going on and hopefully the Lord will be able to bring some great correction to the church in the next few years as a result.
I had that thought as well, but Idk either....it would have to become legal first, but if it did...our leaders still preach it's gonna come back before the second coming. I agree it'll cause quite an uproar if it happens again, but I do think something's up. All of these lies all of the sudden are just too weird. God is able to use them to reroute people to the truth, but that's just His agenda. I feel like the church leaders have another.
@@peachysparkles Wow, I didn't realize the leaders have been telling us that polygamy will return before Christ returns. I don't go to church much so there could be a lot of things being taught that I don't know about.
Keep me posted please. TH-cam doesn't always notify me on comments so if I don't respond that is the reason. Thanks.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 It’s mentioned in Bruce McConkie’s infamous book “Mormon Doctrine”. It should be titled “Brighamite Doctrine” instead.
@@Maryel_R_R_Palmer You got that one.
My thoughts exactly!
Also, what looks to be Hyrum’s speech deleted on the draft history manuscript isn’t exactly the same speech word-for-word. There are some additions snuck in around the part when he starts talking about sealing by proxy.
I noticed that as well. Bullock's notes are ambiguous enough that they can be read as support for polygamous marriage sealings in heaven, although they don't specifically say that. But of course, by the mid-1850s, there was no doubt that Hyrum must have meant that, so they made sure that's what it said. I wish that we had an additional (good) version of notes from the talk to compare.
@@IBelieveJoseph i think one of us might have it switched here. 😅 I think it’s Bullock’s notes that make it clear Hyrum is anti-polygamy, which is the contemporaneous version and the one they deleted from JSP. There were some additions made to the draft manuscript that makes it more ambiguous to multiple sealings, but it’s still anti-polygamy enough that they decided to mark the whole thing out altogether and not include it in the final manuscript.
@@Maryel_R_R_Palmer You're right! Good catch. The draft history was clearly composed primarily from Bullock's notes, but they also clearly added some details. Still too unsafe, though--deleted.
This as Joesph was being charged with perjury, fornication, and adultery, and the Elders seem unconcerned.
Why does the Church have to manufacture the evidence of Joseph's polygamy? Very simple: If polygamy didn't come from Joseph, then Brigham Young was a damnable liar for saying that it did and teaching it as doctrine. That would put serious doubt in the idea that Young was a prophet of God rather than a tyrannical adulterous grifting usurper; and if that is removed, what does it say about the line of authority claimed by the Brethren today?
"Joseph was innocent of polygamy" is the Achilles' heel of all of official Church history. If it's true, then the LDS Church itself is apostate. So, the Church will NEVER admit that to be the case, regardless of the available evidence.
The problem would not just be Brigham Young. The church would need to admit that Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow, and Joseph F. Smith, at the very least, lied under oath.
@@Maryel_R_R_Palmer You're absolutely right. I'm just simplifying to the root.
Joseph F. Smith actually stated that senior apostle to senior apostle succession was not inspired as well-in a national court of law even. He also said the apostles were not chosen by revelation either. So not only does Brigham Young's usurpation story show an illegitimate line of succession but one of our early presidents literally admitted it as well. The church has a page on these court sessions that these quotes come from, but the link they give to the them is broken. I found them anyway tho on Google books and the Library of Congress website. It was the proceedings for the Reed Smoot trial. It's a lot so I didn't read everything, but I read the interview parts with Pres. Smith and found these statements from him.
Wow! Do you happen to still have the links for those?
@@IBelieveJoseph Hey sorry for the late response! TH-cam is kinda terrible at showing me replies. Yes, I do have them!!! I can send them to you if you want.
The Hyrum Smith Papers
#MakeItHappen
I wonder if anyone else spoke about polygamy at the conference?
Why is Hyrum Smith speech on April 8,1844 deleted? To me the answer appears to be sinister.
At the very least, it’s extremely suspicious.
Secret combination
I think it was wrong for the Joseph Smith papers to delete this talk.
Also, its time the church stop implying the President of the church is infallible like the Catholics do with the pope.
My belief is Joseph taught you can be sealed to multiple women in heaven. Like your first and second wife here.
And that members of the church confused this with plural marriage being a good thing here.
I agree about deleting the talk. It’s hard to think it wasn’t in response to people questioning Joseph’s alleged polygamy, especially given the timing, their false excuses, and that there’s still an awful lot of “interim” content that’s still on the JSP website.
Could it say "scolding" the elders?
That's the best suggestion I've heard, so maybe!
Is there any place in the scriptures where God justifies several men in marrying the same women where all parties are still alive?
It sounds like you're describing at least two couples, Husband & Wife 1 and Husband & Wife 2, where Husband 1 and Husband 2 are married to both Wife 1 and Wife 2? I don't know of a place where that happens in the scriptures, let alone where God justifies it.
BOGUS INFO
@michaelparks5669 Hello! Below the video I provided links to the primary sources that I used. Which did you think were bogus, and why?
@@IBelieveJoseph what is the difference between polygamy and plural marriage? What is the difference between marriage and sealing? If you are misinformed your thesis is incorrect.
So what is this channel? You believe Joseph was a prophet but the Brigham young church not?
I think that the historical record is clear that Brigham Young was a liar and adulterer, and I find it difficult to believe that someone like that could be a prophet.
@@IBelieveJoseph but you believe Joseph was? I think I may be believing the same.
I believe Joseph Smith Jr practiced what he preached. The Prophet Joseph Smith never taught or lived polygamy, in fact, he said that if a person receives a message or revelation that contradicts a previous revelation you may know it is not of God but of Satan, who may appear as an angel of light to deceive. The following quote from the Prophet Joseph Smith shows that D&C 132 was in direct contradiction with previous revelations in D&C 42:22-26 and D&C 49: 15-17 and former section 101 of 1835 (Three Witnesses to this Truth). According to Emma, the Prophet's wife, Joseph never received D&C 132 revelation. So who wrote D&C 132? It was under Brigham Young's administration and contrary to God's eternal pattern. See MarriageAndPolygamy.
That's exactly what I've been saying to people. If an angel really did appear telling everyone to start sleeping with each other, practicing the religion of mating like animals then that would have indeed been the devil. But I get a lot of push back from people who are still in the mindset of eternal mating 🤷♀️🙈.
It's quite embarrassing that we hold this mentality to such a high degree. I feel like all this polygamy suddenly being spoken of in great mass is because it's being revealed for what it really was.... Vile and disgusting.
Secret combination