Since you recommended the Wand/NDR at the Lubeck Cathedral it has become my favorite and I am grateful for that heads up. I agree that there are many fine alternatives and we are lucky to have them. Thanks David
I would go so far as to say this is Karajan's greatest achievement on record. How many Bruckner Eighths really hit the target? It seems that, at the very end of his career, Karajan achieved a new warmth and humanity in his Bruckner. His Seventh with Vienna, from the same period, is also extraordinary.
@@TOONACEDRELA Yes, I too love both. The 70's Berlin has that totally wild timpanist at the beginning of the finale, sounding like the crack of doom. Have you heard Karajan's early stereo EMI version (with Berlin)? It sounds totally different to me. Dark, brooding, not quite in focus as an interpretation or recording, but providing an interesting contrast to the two later ones.
@@davidaiken1061 Yes, the EMI was the first one I had on LP. Bought it again on CD. It's a little more reserved. I think he was still honing it. There is an even earlier one, done in the 40's which I have not heard. I have thought for a long time that Karajan 'owns' Bruckner 8.
Yes, if any conductor can be said to "own" a work, Karajan owned the Bruckner 8. It's interesting that even some of the most distinguished Bruckner interpreters missed the target when it came to the Eighth. Jochum is a good example, but there are many others. My favorites, beyond Karajan, include Schuricht, Böhm (both the studio and live accounts), Maazel/EMI, and (believe it or not), Solti/Vienna (not his very disappointing later Chicago version). But nine times out of ten when I want to hear the work, it's going to be Karajan/Vienna.
@@davidaiken1061 I heard the Maazel recording of the Eighth with the Berlin Phil, and I thought that I was listening to Karajan conduct it. I suspect that the Berlin Phil had been preparing to record it with Karajan. The Maazel recording is a document in its own right, and it was dirt-cheap when it was available on EMI. I'm sure that lots of them are in circulation.
90% of classical music I listen to the slow movements and thank you Dave for introducing me to Bruckner Symphony 8. Wow, such a nice ethereal mellow slow movement in my top 10 now.
That free composing bit you mention in the finale: turns out that passage has been authenticated. The sheet of paper it was written on got misfiled, and was recently rediscovered. It's funny, because the anti Haas people always liked to hysterically point out this supposed free composed 11 bars. I'll save you the trouble of replying: "who cares?"
Note- for those of you who have the initial 2-disc release of the Karajan / Vienna recording and are not fully satisfied with the sonics, the newer single disc recording that Dave reviews here has much better audio. I just purchased the single disc version and it is glorious --- all the muddiness and harshness is gone.
Very well said about the original version. I have the misfortune to have heard it live... unadvertised. RSNO/Oundjian advertised Bruckner 8 without stating a version, which I took to mean Haas or Nowak (differences between them meaning little). In the first movement I gradually realised that this was not just a bad performance, but the first version, which was confirmed by the coda. I thought I'd see how the Scherzo went, and it was so bad that I waited for a loud section and walked out. The only time I have left during a movement - I have left after a piece once or twice, or not stayed for encores when I did not want to hear more from an orchestra! How can one not say it's the inferior edition (though that's presumably not what the conductor thought) in the season schedule - and why oh why perform it at all given that Scotland had not heard much Bruckner since a complete cycle at the Edinburgh Festival about 15 years previously! (While the first is a good piece, it's not a great Bruckner cycle if I thought the first was the highlight, but that's another tale...)
The East Germans had some of the world's best recording technology -- even better than DG and the other West German technology. They perfected reel-to-reel magnetic tape recording after initial German work in WW2. I remember how good my vinyl recordings by Suitner and Sanderling were.
Dear Dave, Keep the Dave's faves coming! Please don't stop at 1 year. Your fans will be bereft without this marvelous and enjoyable series.
Since you recommended the Wand/NDR at the Lubeck Cathedral it has become my favorite and I am grateful for that heads up. I agree that there are many fine alternatives and we are lucky to have them. Thanks David
I would go so far as to say this is Karajan's greatest achievement on record. How many Bruckner Eighths really hit the target? It seems that, at the very end of his career, Karajan achieved a new warmth and humanity in his Bruckner. His Seventh with Vienna, from the same period, is also extraordinary.
Agree about warmth and humanity and more reflective. The 70's Berlin one is shattering in its delivery...really quite apocalyptic. Love 'em both.
@@TOONACEDRELA Yes, I too love both. The 70's Berlin has that totally wild timpanist at the beginning of the finale, sounding like the crack of doom. Have you heard Karajan's early stereo EMI version (with Berlin)? It sounds totally different to me. Dark, brooding, not quite in focus as an interpretation or recording, but providing an interesting contrast to the two later ones.
@@davidaiken1061 Yes, the EMI was the first one I had on LP. Bought it again on CD. It's a little more reserved. I think he was still honing it. There is an even earlier one, done in the 40's which I have not heard. I have thought for a long time that Karajan 'owns' Bruckner 8.
Yes, if any conductor can be said to "own" a work, Karajan owned the Bruckner 8. It's interesting that even some of the most distinguished Bruckner interpreters missed the target when it came to the Eighth. Jochum is a good example, but there are many others. My favorites, beyond Karajan, include Schuricht, Böhm (both the studio and live accounts), Maazel/EMI, and (believe it or not), Solti/Vienna (not his very disappointing later Chicago version). But nine times out of ten when I want to hear the work, it's going to be Karajan/Vienna.
@@davidaiken1061 I heard the Maazel recording of the Eighth with the Berlin Phil, and I thought that I was listening to Karajan conduct it. I suspect that the Berlin Phil had been preparing to record it with Karajan. The Maazel recording is a document in its own right, and it was dirt-cheap when it was available on EMI. I'm sure that lots of them are in circulation.
90% of classical music I listen to the slow movements and thank you Dave for introducing me to Bruckner Symphony 8. Wow, such a nice ethereal mellow slow movement in my top 10 now.
It’s my fav adagio, soo good
That free composing bit you mention in the finale: turns out that passage has been authenticated. The sheet of paper it was written on got misfiled, and was recently rediscovered. It's funny, because the anti Haas people always liked to hysterically point out this supposed free composed 11 bars. I'll save you the trouble of replying: "who cares?"
Thank you.
Note- for those of you who have the initial 2-disc release of the Karajan / Vienna recording and are not fully satisfied with the sonics, the newer single disc recording that Dave reviews here has much better audio. I just purchased the single disc version and it is glorious --- all the muddiness and harshness is gone.
Very well said about the original version. I have the misfortune to have heard it live... unadvertised. RSNO/Oundjian advertised Bruckner 8 without stating a version, which I took to mean Haas or Nowak (differences between them meaning little). In the first movement I gradually realised that this was not just a bad performance, but the first version, which was confirmed by the coda. I thought I'd see how the Scherzo went, and it was so bad that I waited for a loud section and walked out. The only time I have left during a movement - I have left after a piece once or twice, or not stayed for encores when I did not want to hear more from an orchestra! How can one not say it's the inferior edition (though that's presumably not what the conductor thought) in the season schedule - and why oh why perform it at all given that Scotland had not heard much Bruckner since a complete cycle at the Edinburgh Festival about 15 years previously! (While the first is a good piece, it's not a great Bruckner cycle if I thought the first was the highlight, but that's another tale...)
The coda at the very ending of the Bruckner 8th is out of this world. Celibadache deliberately conducts it at a slower tempo to maximise its impact
@richardwilliams473 I totally agree. One wishes it would never end.
Now you have a year to do "Dave's 2nd or almost favs."
or Dave's worse 🤣
Oddly ever since you recommended Otmar Suitner’s all others kinda pale in comparison. Haven’t listened to this one.
This one is even better.
The Suitner is freaking amazing and blows away all the others.
The East Germans had some of the world's best recording technology -- even better than DG and the other West German technology. They perfected reel-to-reel magnetic tape recording after initial German work in WW2. I remember how good my vinyl recordings by Suitner and Sanderling were.