Like most things, the so-called "scientific" experts don't know what they are talking about. You're doing a great public service, informing the tennis community that the emperor is wearing no cloth.
Hi again , I checked out Sam Groth and he’s not so side on as you might think !! On deuce side he turns more then on advantage side and with serve and volley sometimes more . For second serve he’s side on which is more normal then with a first serve. Tomorrow I make a video about it to show more clearly the difference between first and second of Sam
Science had already proven on the leg pressure that each foot produced with the 2 types of stances by using load cell plates on professional participants.
I’m waiting to see the force plate numbers you got showing 70% on the front foot. Rather a Djoke that you used Djoker who drags his foot forward and is between a platform and a pinpoint stance. Even so Kovacs was being quoted out of context. These clips were made many years ago and Hamilton edited them to create something that looked new to sell. These were drills to help people get more load on the back foot, which most people need to do and to help people stay closed longer. Most rec players open early. When you are doing a drill you exaggerate, hence the 70% on the back foot for a drill. The comment on long axis rotation was taken completely out of context. BTW, I could show you clips of the all-time WTA ace leader and she doesn’t do it all. Anyone can cherry pick clips and make up a story.
Biomechanic specialist Bruce Elliot said 70% front leg but biomechanics specialist Kovacs said 70% back leg. So I checked the top 10 and I think that their on the front leg and their not side on at contact 🥴🥴
@@marktace1 because mostly !!( is not the same as side on doing shoulder over shoulder like a cartwheel ) having the hips in a 30 t to 45 degree angle at contact and half of the fastest servers even more then that is NOT side on
@@bmtspain6839 Once again, that was a drill he was showing. Elliott uses images of Federer staying side on for his more recent presentations and he stays very side on. Isner similarly stays side on and BTW despite your cherry picked Caroline Garcia image I’ve got slow motion from IW of her serving very side on until almost contact.
@@marktace1I think the ace queen is pliskova and she uses also pinpoint were it’s very hard to load on back leg because of forward movement and she’s not side in and she also has pronation long before the bounce .Garcia changed her serve like 3 times in the last 4 years 🥴 I’m cherry picking I just saw the video and I’m not the one who made it but you can hear the words of Kovacs
So what is this BS about shoulder-over-shoulder recommendation from the so-called sports kinesiology expert? Looks like he's 100% full of it. Apparently, he wrote entire papers on it and won awards for it. Based on the photos you show of the best servers in the world, it's laughable. I mean, I do see the shoulder over shoulder value to help the racquet drop and to execute a correct swing arc upward to strike the ball, but to say the shoulder over shoulder position should be maintained all the way to the contact point just seems obviously wrong. I think the author of the swing paper is actually in the tennis hall of fame. Honestly, maybe I just don't understand the science, but your photographic evidence of no shoulder over shoulder by top pro server after top pro server, both men and women, seems fairly contradictory to the shoulder over should at contact theory. Your photos constitute evidence, repeated, verifiable documentation, that the best servers in the world are not striking the ball on serves from a shoulder over shoulder position. With any luck and a lot of practice, maybe I can start hitting my serves as wrong as the pros that you show do.
Upon further review of video of pros hitting serves, I think the shoulder over shoulder description itself was what was most misleading. I think what the kinesiologist was attempting to convey was orienting the body with the shoulders tilted, as in the racquet arm shoulder higher than the non-racquet arm shoulder at contact, instead of both shoulders staying level. I think the shoulder over shoulder technique is intended to create more torso rotation, both in loading the racquet behind the body on the racquet drop and rotating the body forward into the shot when swinging to strike the ball. This same kinesiology idea is applied in a baseball windup and pitch: th-cam.com/video/kVg8oeP1200/w-d-xo.html
@@ReidVV you are loading past your shoulder line so when you go up you will create rotation ( the same as shot put uses rotation 🥴 ) so it will hard to stay sideways because of the force coming of the ground . You will see by woman that they’re turned way before contact 🥴 Staying sideways as long as posible would be better to describe but watching players hitting over 230km staying sideways will never happen if you ask me On the topspin serve it’s more posible but you’ll have less power and the reason of the video was that the people who want more power in their serve go to kovacs 🤔
@@ReidVV they were also talking about the long axes rotation like a cartwheel which is also not happening, the thing is that coaches like Miele babel are following this stuff and also making videos trying to stay sideways , so it’s like a chain that goes from person to person . We should keep it more on recreation level and keep out the more difficult stuff if you ask me
Great insights! Hope more coaches can see this video!
Good and simple
Like most things, the so-called "scientific" experts don't know what they are talking about. You're doing a great public service, informing the tennis community that the emperor is wearing no cloth.
The funny part is that even a shot put has rotation 😳🤔
Interestingly Sam Groth the world record holder for fastest serve is side on at contact. But youre right most players open up...as did Andy Roddick.
Yes , he is probably on of the closest to that side position
Hi again , I checked out Sam Groth and he’s not so side on as you might think !! On deuce side he turns more then on advantage side and with serve and volley sometimes more . For second serve he’s side on which is more normal then with a first serve.
Tomorrow I make a video about it to show more clearly the difference between first and second of Sam
Science had already proven on the leg pressure that each foot produced with the 2 types of stances by using load cell plates on professional participants.
Elliot is right. More push on the front leg.
I’m waiting to see the force plate numbers you got showing 70% on the front foot. Rather a Djoke that you used Djoker who drags his foot forward and is between a platform and a pinpoint stance. Even so Kovacs was being quoted out of context. These clips were made many years ago and Hamilton edited them to create something that looked new to sell. These were drills to help people get more load on the back foot, which most people need to do and to help people stay closed longer. Most rec players open early. When you are doing a drill you exaggerate, hence the 70% on the back foot for a drill. The comment on long axis rotation was taken completely out of context. BTW, I could show you clips of the all-time WTA ace leader and she doesn’t do it all. Anyone can cherry pick clips and make up a story.
Biomechanic specialist Bruce Elliot said 70% front leg but biomechanics specialist Kovacs said 70% back leg. So I checked the top 10 and I think that their on the front leg and their not side on at contact 🥴🥴
@@bmtspain6839 Then why didn’t you quote Bruce Elliott saying “you stay mostly side on until just before impact”?
@@marktace1 because mostly !!( is not the same as side on doing shoulder over shoulder like a cartwheel ) having the hips in a 30 t to 45 degree angle at contact and half of the fastest servers even more then that is NOT side on
@@bmtspain6839 Once again, that was a drill he was showing. Elliott uses images of Federer staying side on for his more recent presentations and he stays very side on. Isner similarly stays side on and BTW despite your cherry picked Caroline Garcia image I’ve got slow motion from IW of her serving very side on until almost contact.
@@marktace1I think the ace queen is pliskova and she uses also pinpoint were it’s very hard to load on back leg because of forward movement and she’s not side in and she also has pronation long before the bounce .Garcia changed her serve like 3 times in the last 4 years 🥴
I’m cherry picking I just saw the video and I’m not the one who made it but you can hear the words of Kovacs
So what is this BS about shoulder-over-shoulder recommendation from the so-called sports kinesiology expert? Looks like he's 100% full of it. Apparently, he wrote entire papers on it and won awards for it. Based on the photos you show of the best servers in the world, it's laughable. I mean, I do see the shoulder over shoulder value to help the racquet drop and to execute a correct swing arc upward to strike the ball, but to say the shoulder over shoulder position should be maintained all the way to the contact point just seems obviously wrong. I think the author of the swing paper is actually in the tennis hall of fame. Honestly, maybe I just don't understand the science, but your photographic evidence of no shoulder over shoulder by top pro server after top pro server, both men and women, seems fairly contradictory to the shoulder over should at contact theory. Your photos constitute evidence, repeated, verifiable documentation, that the best servers in the world are not striking the ball on serves from a shoulder over shoulder position. With any luck and a lot of practice, maybe I can start hitting my serves as wrong as the pros that you show do.
Upon further review of video of pros hitting serves, I think the shoulder over shoulder description itself was what was most misleading. I think what the kinesiologist was attempting to convey was orienting the body with the shoulders tilted, as in the racquet arm shoulder higher than the non-racquet arm shoulder at contact, instead of both shoulders staying level. I think the shoulder over shoulder technique is intended to create more torso rotation, both in loading the racquet behind the body on the racquet drop and rotating the body forward into the shot when swinging to strike the ball. This same kinesiology idea is applied in a baseball windup and pitch: th-cam.com/video/kVg8oeP1200/w-d-xo.html
@@ReidVV you are loading past your shoulder line so when you go up you will create rotation ( the same as shot put uses rotation 🥴 ) so it will hard to stay sideways because of the force coming of the ground . You will see by woman that they’re turned way before contact 🥴
Staying sideways as long as posible would be better to describe but watching players hitting over 230km staying sideways will never happen if you ask me
On the topspin serve it’s more posible but you’ll have less power and the reason of the video was that the people who want more power in their serve go to kovacs 🤔
@@ReidVV they were also talking about the long axes rotation like a cartwheel which is also not happening, the thing is that coaches like Miele babel are following this stuff and also making videos trying to stay sideways , so it’s like a chain that goes from person to person .
We should keep it more on recreation level and keep out the more difficult stuff if you ask me