The 358 is SUPERIOR to the 308, NO CONTEST.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2025
- Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors! In this video, I compare the 358 Win. to the 308 Win. and decide which is the superior cartridge once and for all.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
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Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
I knew an old gunsmith who was a wealth of knowledge, he called the 358win the king of the timber! He had hunted with and owned about everything and had the trophy wall to prove it. He had a Ruger 77 in 358win he loved.
My hunting buddy got one of those! The thing was an absolute tack driver too.
The 308 must have broken Ron's heart at some point, because he takes every opportunity to crap on it. Never ceases to amaze me.
Never underestimate Ron's ability to belittle the 308.
He makes it pretty clear he doesn’t like the .308….as popular as it is.
Or his ability to be full of shit.
Especially when comparing against an inferior cartridge.
😂
yes and i have always had the impression that he also promotes hunters to do what they want to do. And also promotes hunters to try out different cartridges and things if possible. Me, I’m going to get my first .308 specifically because I recently discovered Spomer and have been learning so much cool stuff binging his videos. And in all his ballistics charts comparisons it pretty much seems to me that sure enough the .308 is just the sort of “all-arounder” that I want. .223 yes but I already have a .22 lr and I need an all arounder for hogs and deer and whatever else. And I am not a super hardcore varminter who needs a 204 or a 223. So for my first AR foray, .308 it is!
I think a big factor in .308 being so popular is also the availability of cheap surplus ammo. Being such a versatile round also works in its favour. 358 is more of a hunting only rounds, where .308 you can hunt, varmint, compete, shoot out to 1000m on steel, it’s just a great all rounder.
That’s said, you’ve really piqued my interest in 358 now, next time I come across an old flogged out 308 bolt gun, I may have to get it re-barrelled as a 358.
Also it just does everything well in a sweet spot. The .308 isn't meant for 180g loads like he's comparing. He's purposefully choosing that weight of bullet in this comparison to make the .308 look much weaker than it is. It was designed for 150g, 165g and 168g's.....its sweet spot(which puts its performance on par with 30-06 with the same weight bullet). The 165g Nosler Partition in .308 takes elk out to 400 yards all day(still hitting with 1500 ft/lbs of energy at 400 yards) and awesome BC and plenty flat. All while recoiling less than the 30-06. There's a reason why it is still wildy popular, still used in military and police sniper application and still beloved by both hunters and long range target competition shooters.
Yes 358 is a pure true hunters cartrige ..loaded with 225 nosler partitions or Sierra gameking tsx etc its hard to beat as a general timber semi open range elk moose deer cartrige without excessive recoil .it's capable out to 300 yds or so with the right load and great up close energy.
Not the first time a gun writer put a negative spin on the .308 to make another cartridge look better. They're always pushing something else when the .308 gets the job done with less recoil. The 308 will not go away because of its many advantages.@@Simon-talks
@@johngoodman9380 indeed
@@johngoodman9380
308 is still a really good gun no matter what a writer says.
Ron you made a misprint on the 308 Winchester energy levels in your table. I punched your numbers into the Hornady Ballistic Calculator and the 308 gets 1771 Foot pounds at 300 yards NOT 1171. This now makes the 600 yard Energy level make sense. I have shot both for many years and you are pushing the 358 harder than the 308 to reach 2550 fps with a 225 grain bullet. The 308 expands its bullets better at longer ranges making it a better choice for longish range use.
I know you also love the 35's Greg. I noticed the foupah. 😮 and have ta agree on both counts. My 20 and 22" 358's are pushing hard ta best 2500 by much with a 225g. But we both know there are fast and slow barrels.
@@cw2a As you know my 358 is in a Savage 99 so I don't like pushing it past 2450 fps or so with a 225 grain. Still a darn good combo though I keep coming back to the Speer 250 at 2225 or so.
Yes, I noticed this discrepancy as well, but the other way around. No way it loses so little energy between 300 and 600.
If you love the 358 so much why don’t you just go ahead and marry it…!
What's your pronoun, Buster!!??😂
I have been shooting a 358 Win for about 40 years now. It is primarily a handloaders cartridge. Easy to keep shooting with easily available 308 Win brass, a simple trip through the sizer die nets you a ready to load 358 case. Properly loaded it is easily a 300-350 yard round capable of taking anything on the North American continent as well as many African species. It truly does puch above its weight class. A wonderful useful round properly used within its range limits.
I've been using my .358 BLR for hunting and am getting into hand loading. how are you building a cartridge for the .358 that's solid to 350 yards? Just learning but I'm looking to get 300-400 yards out of this rifle to open up ability to harvest at distance if needed and if it's possible.
Yeah I'm just wondering how does a 358 group at 200 yd?
I'm truly serious about building my own 358 win and I'm wanting to know what kind of performance I can expect from this cartridge in a lightweight bolt action rifle
@KevinRLeaman Kevin-One of my 358's is built on a Rem 700 with a Shilen 21 inch barrel. The action was trued, lapped locking lugs, squared bolt face etc. I only have a 1.75x6 scope on it as I typically do not hunt with I in areas that offer shots much over 200 yards, most of my hunting is much closer. So I have not shot many groups @ 200 yards. I have no trouble getting groups less than an inch @ 100 yards. The gun weighs around 7 3/4 pounds scoped, so not particularly light weight.
It is fairly easy to get a 200 a Hammer Hunter bullet over 2600 fps making this a 300 yard load easily suitable for game up to moose. I certainly would not hesitate to use it on our larger bears but 225-250 grain bullets would not be a bad choice either.
As far as recoil, I find the 200 grain loads about like a 30 06 180 grain. Heavier bullets start to get your attention. I have never played with some of the lighter bullets from Hammer and Barnes but think there could be some good stuff to be had depending on your objectives.
+ 1 for having added the 338 fed in the conversation w/ 358 and 308.
My Father was a .35 Remington apologist. I love how you do these deep dives in to the different cartridges that have been made over the years. Thank you!
There are still those of us out there.
@@patrickhenry236 Yes there are.
I think for big game the .358 is my favorite.
I've shot .35 Remington most of my adult life... performance wise it needs no defending. If the areas you hunt aren't more than 200 yards, the additional performance people reach for is novelty. I haven't met any critter, that a 220 grn Speer over levrevolution wouldn't put on its ass.
@@patrickhenry236 and me...
@@sharpsharp4928 .35 Remington, one of the perfect combinations for maximum penetration in the heavy bullets.
---a really great cartridge
Absolutely LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the 358 Winchester. And you are 100% right - VERY underappreciated. While I have the skills, I don't like to track. The 358 has always ensured i don't have to track. "Big" still works.....
What bullets are ya shootin? What game have ya taken?
@@tazman8271 - When available, I use 225 grain and 250. If all I can find are 200 grain, I will use them but not my preference. Mostly deer locally. But I've shot a huge (really huge) northern whitetail and a relative dropped an elk. No tracking. Very little wasted meat.
Gotta say the 35 Rem had an still has a lot of adherents. Plus the 350 Rem Mag (although it never caught on) is a heck of a round in the handy 600 series rifles !!! Love those 35s !!!
The hardest I have ever been kicked was 600 in 308. The factory butt plate was hard plastic. Three shots off of sandbags and a tough guy would have his fill. A 350 mag would be even worse. A pachmyer deceleratior tamed the 308. Not a gun you want to do a lot of practice with.
Have you heard of the .358 Norma Mag? King of the .35’s
35 Rem, 358 Win, and 35 Whelan are all outstanding.
I love learning about cartridges. I love history. This channel has both of these. Well done Ron!
Love the 35 calibers ❤️
I actually picked up a brand new Ruger American Predator chambered in 358 Winchester back in 2020!
Ruger made a special run of these.. 400 rifles! They were being sold here in Pennsylvania for $399.00!
I've used mine for black bear and whitetail. The recoil in my opinion is like shooting a 30-06 Springfield with 180 grain loads!
Which isnt too bad.. not shooting a box at one sitting though! Factory ammo is hard to find.. so unless you reload your constantly searching for ammo!
I harvested a 3 and a half year old whitetail this past season. Knocked it clean off its feet and he still got up and mad dashed 100 yards! That was a lung and heart shot!
That being said.. my favorite cartridge is the 7mm-08 Remington! For whitetail!!!
270 Winchester is the best caliber of all time for whitetail in all terrain they inhabit, ive used lots of calibers for them. And the 270 is the perfect fit
@@whiteyfisk9769 I’m with you mate in Australia the 270 and 30-06 are the go to for samba deer red deer ect
Hey Blackie Boy, fellow Keystoner living in Florida. I bet you found your Ruger at Greises'. Everyone in PA knows where they are.
@@Mark-uq9km Grice Gun Shop is the place in Pennsylvania!
These rifles sold as fast as Grice received them.. and for the price it's no wonder 🤔
The 35 Whelen the 35 Remington and the 358 Winchester are fantastic cartridges for the North East! Big and slow is the way to go!!!
A lot of 30-30 Winchester folks as well!
My grandfather was a 270 Winchester guy.. and my father was a 30-06 guy! They didn't believe in having more than one rifle either!
I'd pay $1,000 for one!
Lol Ron I believe you pick on the 308 fans just for fun! Keep them Rollin!
Great video Ron! I have been using the .358 since 1977 in various platforms , Savage 99, BLR, and a Model 70. Out of all of them my preference was the M.70. Have dropped game from elk down to coyotes with never more than one shot. It's a killer!
Yeah, I agree. Surprisingly, I have had the BLR, the 99, and also the Ruger Hawkeye Stainless, and a Browning A-Bolt Hunter. I don't think there is anything better balanced.
I have my father's Savage mdl 99 in 358 Winchester and loaded with Barnes Bullets it drops everything that it hits. My daughter used it growing up and she loves it.
The 358 was my very first Deer rifle I bought myself. I bought a used Browning BLR with a M8 3x Leupold. Its taken countless deer a few hogs and a bear. It was the start of my affinity for the 35's. Ill never ever be without a number of them! Today from the lil 380/357 Sig up to my 358 Norma Magnum are shot carried and hunted regularly. They are my favorite! ❤❤❤❤
I looked at the 338 Fed, 358 Win, and 375 Raptor. I have decided to go with the 375 Raptor on an AR10 platform. Good content Ron, thank you.
375 Raptor a sleeper that hits like a train
I've wrecked alotta hogs with a 338 federal. One shot wonder .
There's a lot more 35 caliber bullets suited to the .358win velocities. .375 caliber is usually used for hard hitters like l375 H&H. I have a .375 win chambered in a marlin and I see any difference between it and my .358 win on deer.
If it were me, I'd not pick the Raptor. I'd pick the Alexander Arms 50 Beowulf. Mine makes me feel safe from 200 yards in. And will kill anything on earth. A box of 20 rounds from Alexander is $34 dollars. Buy their guns and never worry about jams.Go cheap and suffer the consequences.
@@thebigfellar7178 yes, because there is a proven track record of ~70 years with the beowulf....
oh, also, thats not an A.R. 10 there, champ.
Great content, as always! I always liked the cartridges based off of the .308 more than the .308 itself.... 243, 7mm08, 338 Federal( VERY under rated) and the 358 (Also under-rated)
I remember when the .338 Federal was introduced. I was both impressed and sad because in my heart I knew that it would never be the success that it deserved to be.
Man you'll love this channel then. I think Ron did a segment on 22lr vs .308 and 101 reasons the 22lr is better.
Nobody hates 308 more than Ron.
@@jacktrout5807 I'd never argue with anyone who likes the .308. It's a good cartridge. I just can't find any reason to choose it over the 30-06
The .338 Federal suffers as a hunting round because the .338 projectiles are designed for the .338 Magnums & higher velocity. The .358 is so good because projectiles are designed for the .35 Remington.
260 remington too!
The 9.3x57 is very popular in Sweden (known as the "potato thrower" or "Spud gun" locally) for Moose, and now pigs, and a few brown bears. Very similar cartridge! Mannlicher had a 9x57 too that was common internationally.
Or
358 win = 9.3x62 short
Have both 308win and a 9x62 Mauser. With low 200gr bullet the Mauser is awesome. I can confirm Rons numbers
Got a rifle in 358 win a few years ago, and it has lived up to my expectations . Like said by other comments, it is somewhere between an 9.3x57 and 9.3x62 but it does fit in an short action. Overall a fantastic cartridge for reloaders.
its 8.8mm
I built a 358 a few years ago with a left hand Remington action, 22” barrel. Absolute tack driver with 225G Sierra’s and nice a light. Great Montana rifle in the timber and I can stretch an open meadow if I need to. I have quite a few 1k yard rifles but there is something about the 358 I just love.
My father and my 3 Uncles all purchased Winchester Model 88's. My Uncle Ray had the .358, Uncle Ralph had the .284, Uncle Roger had the .243 and my father had the .308. Over the course of the last 28 years I have inherited the .243, the .284 and the .308, Uncle Ray's .358 was lost sometime after he stopped hunting many years ago. His sons claim that they have no idea what happened to it. Wish I had that one!
Friend of mine had a Browning leaver action in 358 win. Beautiful slick detachable mag. rifle and it would shoot sub moa groups. Realistically far superior setup to a 45-70 leaver gun
A 30-30 is superior to a 45-70.
@@redtobertshateshandles I'd take 45-70 marlin over 358 any day and 30-30 was obsolete when it came out
Distance is a big factor in how effective a cartridge will be, and for close range 45-70 is a perfectly adequate cartridge, it terms of downrange energy to recoil energy, it may kick a lot, but that is the price you pay for shooting a heavier bullet, besides, you can handload a 400 grain projectile at 2000fps from a 45-70. Can't do that with anything derived from .308
@@tatsuhirosatou5513
The 30-30 was never obsolete, it was a very popular load and continues to be to this day. Sure there are better loads, but ultimately it's the market that dictates a calibers usage/popularity.
@@redtobertshateshandles Not good hand loads, only cheap low power factory loads.
Cool video! I like to compare the 358win to the 9.3x57, to me they are on par, they will do the exact same thing. I love the 45-70, but I think it shines the most with big slow hardcast bullets in the thickest bushes against the most dangerous games. You could chop down a tree & kill a grizzly with one bullet. :) Free firewood for the following cooking.
I haven't chopped down any trees to kill a griz, but I once drove a 100-gr. Barnes TTSX through a 3-inch alder limb to kill a black bear behind it.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors velocity on that? Sounds spicy.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors I once THOUGHT about shooting a grown man for snoring. Then as I woke up I realized it was my own snoring. Glad I was unarmed and John Wesley Hardin wasn't around. Ha.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors you better have eaten that bear boy.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors I shoat a 405 gr Woodleigh at 2040 fps through a 5" limb and killed a 200 lb. black bear Two years ago.
I have the 356Win., lovely round. The 307Win is also fun.
I primarily hunt in Pennsylvania and love the .308 family of cartridges, I use a .243 for coyotes, a .308 for deer and the .358 for black bears. I was fortunate enough to acquire a Ruger M77 bolt action in .358 when it was offered for a short time. Finding ammo for it is another story. The only thing I can find now is Winchester power points for nearly 70 dollars for a box of 20.
Sounds like the perfect candidate for hand loading.
I recently purchased some Hornady 200gr Sp for my 358 Win. There is also some buffalo bore ammo out there in 358 win
Thanks Ron for shining some light on a vastly underrated cartridge. Informative as always.
Price and availability should factor in. .308 is no slouch.
This right here!!!
Price and availability!
Availability is #1 given the times and various manufacturers who make rifles for that round
For reloaders, that isn't part of the equation. 308 is definitely a couch potato.
With the amount of types of bullets for .308 reloading not to mention just readily available ready to go, 308 is the peoples round.
By that logic 22lr far exceeds it's ability and should be considered more than the 308. Cost and availability have nothing to do with performance. Value yes, performance no...
I had a mod 88 carbine in 308. I Loved it!! THE gun I always took to the mountains for deer. I wanted one in .358, but only in rifles... I thot about reaming it out to 35, but found that it was the LAST 308 carbine to come off the line... A collector offered me $$$$$ for it... Grudgingly, it found a new home, where it would likely never be shot again. Jerry
Have a Browning BLR in 358…. Love it!!
My dad inherited his dads preproduction model 88 in 358 that he got while working at Winchester. I begged him not to sell it, but he did anyway. Before he sold it we shot it a couple of times and i was super impressed with how accurate that thing was. The only problem was the recoil on it. It was like shooting a 12 gauge .
Loved this. I am a 35 cal fan. I have wanted to find a NICE 358 Win for a long time to go with my 35 Whelen and 35 Rem's. Might have to have one made instead. Anyone that has shot game with both smaller cals (like the 30) and larger cals (like the 338/35/375) knows that with proper bullets, the larger cals make a larger impression when they land.
What happened to the .338 Federal?
Not sure how I got here looking up 358 but here I am lol. Thanks for the video!!!
I'm a huge 35 cal fan, from handgun cartridges up to big gun cartridges. They do some impressive things on impressive beasts!
Really great video Ron. I've always loved the 35s, probably because my 1st rifle was a Marlin 336cs 35 Rem. This information really motivated me to look into to getting one so I can work up my own loads and see what this cartridge will do in a bolt action. Keep em coming!
My second was a Marlin 336c 35 rem I was 27 I sold my Winchester 30:30 which now I wish I hadn’t I bought it new when I was 13 at k mart for 165 dollars
I would like to have you compare the 338 fed and the 308 win I am a great fan of the 338-06 and would like to know your opinion of the federal cartridge thanks ahead of time just in case you do it 👍
Shooting the 200 grain Nosler AB out of my 358 Browning BLR. Awesome combination of velocity and energy. Great black bear buster!!
Do you know if anyone makes. .358 barrel for a Brown Bar DBM?
I love the idea of the larger calibers. But the practical side reigns me in, reminding me the 30/30 and .30-06 will do everything you could want in North America. I love the idea of the 35 Whelen and the 350 Remington Magnum but not enough to buy another rifle and caliber
270 and 300win mag is a much better caliber combo for north America
A 30-06 is pretty versatile but many cartridges are more accurate, including the .308!!! Atleast half a dozen non-magnum cartridges kill better. Well the .35 Whelen and the PRC's are Magnums except in name!!!
I had my first one built on a Czech small-ring Mauser action in 1968. Minor feed issues were resolved, and until 10 years ago I had at least one in the vault. Pre-64 M-70s and Savage 99-F's were some of the best. The .338 Federal may be even better, but now I'm too old to start messing with one. The .358 is pure DEATH on deer and bear with a 225-grain spitzer travelling 2500 fps.
The 338 Federal bunch swear by it, and I would be interested in including it in a comparison video.
I love the .35 calibers. My favorite deer woods cartridge is the .35 Rem. Seems like it kills quicker than the .30-30. I bought a .358 but was more gun than I needed for whitetails. Gave it to my son who likes to shoot it.
I have the Ruger 77 in 358 Win. and have taken a lot of deer and bear with it. Tacks out a three leaf clover at 100 yards.
Love hunting with it and will never let it go.
Hey Ron another good one, thanks.
Have you ever considered doing a vid that compared the .243, 7-08, .308, .338fed and .358?
I would be very interested to see which of these offered the best over all performance.
I’m thinking the 338federal is probably the best and most under rated.
Best regards.
And the 260.
It sound like a great video idea 👍
@@Greyzonecompliant what? .260? What’s that? Oh boy. now why’dja have to do that? Guess I’ll be studying the all new, to me, .260. 😊
I know this is an old video, but it popped up again today. I really do like to watch your videos. Kind of funny to see how you can aggravate some people. And you do it with such a straight face.
I personally like the 45-70. Have had a number of different ones over the years. In a Ruger #1 it can really put out the energy, but truly is a shorter range cartridge. Is quite accurate with certain loads. Can get over 3500 fp of energy in various loads but not needed for animals here and recoil gets a little stout in that lightweight gun. For deer I use the 300 gr bullets about 1900 fps which at 50-100 yds is more than enough.
Have a Savage 99 in 308 which is a nice carry gun and accurate enough for the Michigan U P hunting I do. Have a Browning BLR in 358 which is the same weight and size. Browing slightly more accurate. Savage has a narrower receiver which feels better and a much better trigger. Either one is more than enough for deer and black bear. Took both to Canada in 2022 for a bear hunt. Had a health issue come up and couldn't hunt very much so it was a bust. Either one was more than adequate for bear over bait.
Either the 308 or 358 are more than enough for nearly everything people normally hunt. Choose the gun you like. Choose your poison.
Thanks again for your videos. Have a good day. Keep putting out the videos!
Ron, I love the cartridges that are a bit out of the ordinary. Its interesting to note that the 356 Winchester made for the Winchester 94 Big Bore in about 1983 is a virtual twin to the 358 Winchester but with a rim added so it would function in the model 94. Although it is loaded to slightly less pressure, it's very impressive performance for a simple Win 94 Carbine! I have a 94 Big Bore in 375 Win and love it but would really like to add another in 356 Win. But, as with alot of very good cartridges, the Winchester Big Bores just didn't catch on and ended up in the dustbin of history after a relatively short run.
I always wanted a .35 whelen for an east coast coast woods and mountain gun. Never found one. I settled on a 35 rem in a marlin. Im not dis sattisfied. But, i love my blr in 7mm/08!
Another great video Ron! The issue with the 358 is two fold and both are OT-SIX's. The 358 only matched the 30-06 which was inexpensive army surplus at the time, so they both had near identical numbers but the -06 was way more economical and easier to buy. The other issue is the 358-06 or 35 Whelen, which was being wildcatted at the time had substantially better numbers and was a cheap and cheerful retrofit.
Now I have to take exception to your saying the preferences went down to 6.5, but the "quarter bore" 257 was way more popular then the 6.5 ever was, and the popularity of the Savage 99 was based on Savages own 250-3000. Why do you always exclude the 250 Savage? It is one of the best cartridges of all time and certainly just as exceptional and ahead of it's time as the rifle that shot it.
I have a .35 Whelen a wonderful gun but like all .35's under appreciated and its a fast cartridge!!
Hey Ron, i have 3 rifles chambered in 358 Win, a Pre 64 Model 70 which i've never shot and might never shoot, a Browning Model 81 BLR, which i've taken 2 black bears with and a Ruger Model 77 Hawkeye which i plan to use this year on a bear hunt. The 358 is a hell of a caliber and one kick ass bear round !
I would like to hear the history on the 38-55 Winchester center fire and it's modern equivalent.
I agree with ya I learned recently that a Winchester 94 can convert to 38-55 by just barrel swap!
@@nathanhatcher7096 Not even a barrel swap is needed. A 30/30 can be rebored to 38/55.
I want one. Thanks Ron
I love listening to your cartridge history and uses. I have not even thought about a 358 Win in a long time, but thank you for dusting it off and showing why it was an effective and efficient cartridge.
I built one in the the armalite 10 platform last year and it is one of my favorite rifles. 45gr of blc2 with pretty much any bullet will shoot moa and hits like a tank
Your numbers one the .308 at 300 yds is wrong it should be around 1770, other than that I like the comparison
Ron, the energy data on the 308 load at 300 yards is incorrect. Should be 1780 ft*lb not 1171. That makes the “advantage” of the 358 much less significant.
Would love a 7-30 Waters video!
I’ve had a browning blr in 358. It thumps whitetail and black bear.
@x-gq4qo I have been reading your articles for years
I find so many are better than the 308 in some categories, but the 308 seems to be the most available and all-around capable cartridge. From varmint to large game. The right bullet in the right spot will take any game.
That would be the 30-06
Thank you Mr Ron.. I usually find myself reaching for something else, usually the 7mm Rem Mag
The cartridge that shocked me was the 325 WSM it's amazing, and it was an amazing failure .
Put a 17" 358win barrel on an impulse predator. Talk about a super slick rifle.
The gunsmith I worked for got a wild hare of an idea one year. No customer had ever considered the .35 caliber for a rifle. Not even the .350 Remington Magnum. He was an aficionado of Ackley. He decided to build a .35 Whelan Ackley Improved. His idea was that maybe a customer would see the rifle and the results from a hunt with it and order one. He offered to assist me if I would build a 35 caliber. I choose the .358 Winchester. They were mighty fine rifles. As I recall they both had Hart barrels, his had American walnut and mine Circassian walnut stocks, both had hand cut checkering at 18 lpl, Mauser actions topped with Leupold Gold Ring Scopes. And both had cushy butt pads. Very fortunate for him. In the field we took caribou, in seriously windy conditions at about 200 yds or slightly more. No problem. I am sure if there was a difference between the PO Ackley 35 Whelan and the .358 Winchester the driving rain and the screaming wind erased it. We used handloads and 250 grain bullets. I had a 22 inch barrel and he had a 24 inch barrel. Fireforming his brass, which we did in the shop was a labor of love for him, but oh so tedious. At the range he got the snot beat out him as we worked up loads. The 358 was really a pussycat. Needless to say my groupings were a bit better. I only killed that one bou. I had hoped to go after black bear with it that coming spring however, a customer saw it in the shop and made me an offer I could not refuse. That customer took the spring black bear, one shot under 100 yards. He was a satisfied customer.
ahhhh I love it. I mentioned the .358 win in another video about .350 legend and the .35 remington. I want to build a .358 AR10
You'll thank yourself for that
The 358 win is a darling like its big brother the 35 Whelen it is very Very underrated.both these rounds beat the 30 cals above 165 grains.i know all the regular readers are probably going to chastise me but the 358 win and especially the 35 Whelan beat their 30 cal .I'm a dried and true 06 man but the whelan beat my o6.a bolt action model 7 Remington in 358 win with a 21 in barrel with great open sights would be about perfect
I use my savage model f in 358 for Maine and New Hampshire bucks every year. Everyone’s opinions count I guess but the bucks don’t like it when that 200 grain Sierra round nose hits home. Great video!
There's no way the 308 lost less then 100 foot pounds between 300 and 600 yards. Think you might wanna double check that Ron.
Yep, should have around 1800ft/lbs at 300.
Dang! I get the notion of .35 Remington knocked out of my mind because of non-availability and you go and fill the void with the .358! Now I gotta research it a little.
I think Ron must have been bullied by a .308 when he was young.
Excellent video. One thing I’d like to add is the .338 RCM. I believe this round is superior to the .308 AND .358. And I’m still mystified as to why it’s life was cut so short. For hunting, you can’t get a better round for anything up to Elk.
In your Ballistic charts, you are way off on energy of 308 at 300 yards. It should be around 1720 ft/lbs, not 1170ish.
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.
I owned a custom Savage 111 in 358 Winchester.. used it to take several whitetail using 225gr bullets… pop flop ..
wish I still owned it
That energy figure for the .308 @ 300 yards doesn't look right.
Because they aren't.
Iowa once again changed their caliber restrictions for deer. It used to be straight wall only. A couple years ago they went to 35 caliber and larger. The 350 legend is everywhere here and I wanted something with a little more thump. Went with a used Browning BLR in 358. I handload so ammo availability is not an issue. I've been very impressed with it.
If the title is in fact indicative of your opinion on the matter Ron, I'm going to have to disagree. .358 is a good cartridge, undoubtedly, but it doesn't perform as well as .308. I believe .358 Win is more akin to levergun calibers in performance.
I got a custom 358 winchester barrel to my Blaser r8. And I love it
Hi! Ron, I hunted with the 358 win. since 1970 up here in the north east. It’s my favorite cartridge, all deer taken was with 1 shot it dropped them where they stood. I currently own 5 rifles in 358. I also have 3 35 Whelens but, never hunted with them yet I’m saving them for that day I go on a elk hunt.
I had a 356 Winchester that was stolen from FedEx between Greenville SC and Charlotte NC hubs. Was on its way to get a diamond like coating. In south eastern woods was the most effective rifle I ever used on white tail and hogs. Had a speer 220 load at 2460 fps and a 200 Hornady ftx at 2640 fps. I miss it so much
Ron should narrate audiobooks -- I find his content so relaxing. I like to listen to his cartridge comparisons as I'm going to bed!
My grandfather rebored and chambered a Mauser 98 into a bolt action 358 win. I loved shooting it. Never knew what happened to it. Now many years later, I couldn't find a 358 Win bolt action. I kinda followed him and bought a Kimber 84 in the newer 338 Federal caliber. I like it a lot but, my love is still my 300 RUM and 300 WM. My all around rifles.
Jeff D
I can't believe you are still so young, when I was a little kid I was reading your magazines articles along with Jack O'Connor and all the great historians. I have virtually all of it memorized😂😂
👍🏻 my favorite the 358Win! Hnadloaded 250gr Norma Oryx bullets at 2280fps is a great Moose round for the woods!
what would be interesting is how the 8x57 compares to these rounds.
I have an AR-10 in 358 Win. It is a great little rifle. I built it using Coopers guide gun philosophy for a short, light and handy rifle. I mostly shoot cast 280 grain powder coated from it, and it really rings the steel. Very under-rated cartridge.
For a brief period Springfield Armory chambered its M1A in this caliber and in 243 Winchester. I was once told the 358 version was popular in Alaska for bear defense. As a result I decided to build my own bear carbine out of an old FAL kit, but fitted with an 18" 358 barrel. Since no such barrel existed, I purchased a 358 barrel blank. It's been over ten years and I've yet to make that barrel. Maybe it's time I did.
Do it! That sounds like a novel project with an awesome result!
Im a huge 30-06 fan but really want a compact style rifle in 308 win but the 338 federal and this 358 win are very intriguing
I really like my m.77 in 358 win. It's a mini 35 whelen which I also have. 308 for target shooting 358 for hunting. Neat old cartridge
I've got custom built CZ model 98 Mauser in .358 Winchester. I love it, with my hand loads I'm getting 2525fps with a 225gr Sierra and that's from a 22 inch barrel. I've taken several moose,deer and black bear along with 2 elk and one Grizzly.
My great uncle left me his when he passed away 45 years ago. It is a great rifle. I keep it at home but will be passing it down to my son soon. It's like hitting a deer with a pinto. Good content!
i rechambered my .35 Remington to this. It is such a under rated cartridge
If my memory serves correctly, several years ago there was a company that specialized in rechambering the .35 Marlin 336 into the .358. Don't know if they're still around.
Thank you fantastic 🎉🎉
I love my mod 71 winnie 348
Big elk medicine for dark timber.
Ron Spomer has a lock on ballistic knowledge, even while having an open mind, but he brings the facts, thank you Ron, we appreciate you.
I used to like building up rifles on old military actions, Mausers & Springfields. I built a Mauser in .358 Winchester with a Douglas barrel, Fajen stock and Weaver scope, a nice rifle. I worked up lots of different loads for it. I also built up a .35 Whealen on a Springfield, much like the .358 Win. At the time I would have chosen the Whealen over the Winchester
Thanks
Now there's 8.6 blackout based on the 6.5 creedmoor necked up to 338. The real fascinating part is the 1:3 twist rate to stabilize heavy for caliber and copper solid bullets at lower velocities. Real odd duck.
I wish the 8.6 wasn’t such a slow turd. It’s a bit tailored too much for the shorty suppressor crowd.
6.5 is a nice one.
But, so is the 6
I have my grandfather's Winchester model 70 in 358. It was his go to rifle for elk next to his 30-06.
I have a model 88 Winchester and 358 and I have a model 100 284 Winchester, I love it
I think Ron didn’t dial down those velocities enough for the .358. It goes up 45 grains and only loses 50fps. I don’t know unless going wider opens some it’s capacity, idk
I like the idea of the 358 with one of the all copper bullets like the Hammer bullets.
I have been waiting for this o e for a long g time, as I use the 358 Win for everything.
It's a hammer.
Thanks Ron.
Ron looks like my next door neighbor and sounds like him too. My neighbor is not a gun guy though. Love these videos. Very informative.