Cracked Bulkhead Modules?!?! | Leopard Catamarans New Warranty System & Travelsketch Statement
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2024
- This week we take a look at another owners Leopard Catamaran that has never been seen before, it has just a few warranty issues.... so far.... that need to be addressed. We enjoy continuing to help other cool people as well as educate the broader sailing community.
We also make a statement that addresses as peace offering we privately made to Leopard Catamarans back in January, following a previous offer they made us.
Link: www.travelsketchsailing.com/l...
Next week will be more QC craziness and further detail on the important "whys" of our offer to Travelopia/R&C
A few stats for our time aboard our Leopard 45:
• 478 DAY = Hardstand in Trinidad
• ~ 600 DAYS = On the hardstand in Italy, South Africa & Trinidad
• 8+ MONTHS = Stuck in marina's in Europe and Africa
A little note from Telicia, I edited and posted this video.
⛵ Support the Channel! ❤ For exclusive content: / travelsketch
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www.travelsketchsailing.com/
☝Check out the website for more info on us, the places we go and products we use 📷
After backpacking Asia, road tripping Europe and doing a bit of van life, we’re now exploring the world aboard our Leopard 45 catamaran.
0:00 Fresh Leopard Catamaran
3:56 Separating Bulkhead Modules
5:10 Lodging Leopard Catamaran Warranty Issues
13:57 Peace Offer to Leopard
#sailing #catamaran #travelvlog #LifeStyle #travel #sailboat #repair
Losing three years of your twenties to terrible circumstances is beyond any price tag. Large corporations often stall and delay, undermining your financial and emotional stability, effectively trying to ‘break you.’ When your mental and physical health and relationships suffer, it reaches a point where it is no longer worth it.
While it’s easy to say ‘go to court,’ the exorbitant costs and lengthy proceedings only address the money spent without dealing with the emotional trauma. For many, this is not a viable solution. Some silenced voices have had their dreams ended.
You three have the potential to be the best brand ambassadors. If Leopard and Travelopia made you whole, the positive press from your experience could significantly boost their market presence. The current behavior of these manufacturers is incredibly short-sighted. Some doors may close while others open, but this situation is fundamentally wrong. Someone has to be held accountable.
Always wishing you the best.
Thank you AJ, well said by someone who actually knows from personal experience what can happen with you are in a similar situation to us and how bad it can get.
@@travelsketch you have no idea how my heart breaks for you. It’s lovely to see smiles and sweet Rose 🐾🐾🐾
That's bad enough, but imagine losing those three years in your sixties.
You finally retire, figure you've got maybe 10 useful years left to hit the high seas. You don't want to risk spending those years fixing some old, second-hand tub, so you plonk down most of your life-savings on a new Leopard.
Three years later, you blow the rest on a hit man to take out Leopard's CEO.
Retirees have got to be a big chunk of Leopard's customer base. People who value their time more than most because there's only a small pile left and its disappearing fast. They see this channel, no way are they risking a Leopard.
I'd say at the very least Leopard need to come to wherever you are with a loaner so you can continue your journey while they fix yours. They then catch you up with your boat to swap back after they've flown you in to inspect the work. Should be standard procedure.
@@usefulcommunication4516 Thanks for the understanding. I have real empathy for retirees in this situation, one aspect of why this is happening the way it is. They best find some empathy and decency pretty fast.
@@usefulcommunication4516 I bought the boat and did the major electrical and customisation after market due to reputation. To end up with the exact thing I worked so hard to avoid due to the fault of others is infuriating to say the least. Why didn't I take the cash? One reason is that the idea that my silence could mean this happens to retirees disgusts me.
Good to know. My wife and I wanted to buy a new Leopard. We certainly won't be doing that now. Our friends at the sailing club were horrified when they heard this. Once again the total failure of unqualified managers. Thanks for sharing. You have saved us from a big mistake 🙏
We hope that we helped you. Please contact the builder to let them know this, to encourage them to do better for us if we helped you. :)
THANK YOU FOR YOUR VIDEOS. I WAS IN THE PROCESS OF BUYING A LEOPARD BUT STOPPED A WEEK AGO AFTER FINDING YOUR VIDEOS❗️💯🙏✝️😇
You saved me years and over a million dollar mistake👍💯🏝🧜♂️🇺🇲⛵️🌎🍾🌞
Thanks for the support. Please let them know your decision and why so they make our situation right.
@@travelsketch I'm now looking at older models pre 2019
Be very careful and get a legal level survey.
When you said separating bulkheads I immediately thought Lagoon!!
All production cats have bulkhead issues. As @travelsketch has shown, Leopard is just craftier in hiding it under NDAs!
Just hang out in a boatyard that has a large travel lift big enough for cats. You'll find FP, Leopard, Lagoon, even some Seawinds. Outremers also known to have issues.
@@meatmwax So did Lagoon until Colin from Parley Revival took them to task for his own bulkhead problems. David Shih had the same bulkheads problems. Sailing Dauntless fixed theirs with the parts that were supplied by Lagoon before they sold their 45. They are now still working on their leopard 50 that they bought as a salvage in 2021.
Prospective customers???? For the cost of these cats, who would want to deal with all of the headaches? Apparently, it's not just your boat...This is a systemic problem with manufacturing....Buyer beware. You said the owner of the hull manufacturer is investment company...That makes sense as they only look at moving product and the bottom line...profit margins over customer satisfaction...
When is rains it pours. I commented last week that this boat is a lemon and that was an understatement. This boat is NOT SAFE there is so much you can repair. When you have cracked bulkheads this is scary. Please do not continue fixing this boat for your own safety. You need to hire a good marine lawyer and ask for a replacement vessel. I would ONLY accept a Leopard 50 with all the options and nothing less. Give back the boat as this boat is NOT seaworthy at all. Also make sure that you can visit the factory at anything so your new leopard 50 is built as it should be. Leopard and Robinson & Cain need to make this right. Enough is enough you guys have suffered way too much and Leopard and Robinson & Cain fix this problem NOW.
Fully agree. There is no chance in Hell that this yacht will survive a 02hoo at night storm.That is normally the time all hell broke loose for some reason,call it Murphy, s law or what you want. And never say never, nature always throw a curve ball at night
@@desertchild3550 Another option I would agree to would be to accept a full refund and they get to keep the hull in return they close this TH-cam channel start a new one one and call it Travel Sketch A New Beginning and agree to not say anything negative about Leopard and Robinson & Cain. This way they can pay Nino out of pocket and make sure AlL the repairs are done correctly and NEVER speak about Leopard and Robinson & Cain ever again.
There is a reason a lot of boats are sold outside of the US. In the US there are laws and people have the ability to sue in court. Other countries the laws shield the companies from liability. It varies from country to country.
The boat in todays video is the one next to ours. It's issues so far are different. Just an FYI. We are helping them with warranty rectification because we like them. :)
@desertchild3550 things ALWAYS break at night xD
Keep it up guys I think you are doing something good , hold on a little longer and we will see you out there on the water
Thanks for the ongoing support, I agree :)
I wish you three all the best! Great update!
Thanks for the comment :)
😎
I find it absolutely disgusting that anyone use COVID an excuse for !!BAD CRAFTSMANSHIP!! That there is a delay in delivery it’s absolutely ok, but quality of work is absolutely NO EXCUSE!!
Well said
stand tall guys you have been way more patient than I could have been. Your stalwart insistence on openness and honesty is a beacon to society large corporations believe they can tread on the individual, you show them they can't. You have also inspired others as several new warranty lapse channels have emerged since your misfortunes and the documentation of them started. Your videos give me hope for society going forward. Up them spot we'll share the pups.
Thank you
Thank you for the support.
Hope you get it sorted,hats off to you for going public and not signing a NDA and making leopard accountable.
We are starting to look for a catamaran but after watching you its safe to say Leopard won’t be considered
Thank you! Please contact the builder to let them know this, to encourage them to do better for us if we helped you. :)
Great Video guys, congratulations! It seems to be good news that Leopard has now a structured way to submit warranty claims. In the past a warranty claim just ended up in the inbox of one person and it depended on that person if and when there would be a fallow up. In some cases that was good, in many cases that was bad.
In your video you show how quickly they reacted to your claim, so there is a person really doing a good job it seems.
You did a great job explaining the new process. I just hope the owners of that Leopard 45 in the video actually appreciate all the great work you do for them! I don't know how you keep going and on top have the energy to help so many others around you. Admirable! Wish you strength: Do not give up, you will get there and you will start cruising one day! Meanwhile we are eager to follow how they will resolve these claims you showed in the video...
Thank you Silvio.
Leopard has a once in a lifetime opportunity to accept full responsibility, and do the right thing. It would certainly only benefit them for future reference of potential future customers, that Leopard will warranty their investment, and do what’s right. (Censorship of the truth will only hinder future customers from weighing their purchase decisions based off of track record and truth)
Absolutely. 100% There is only one way out of this that is constructive for them.
delayed travel for 3 years is priceless. Plus all the stress and expenses. I think they get of cheap with only giving you the wreck of a boat. And you can get on with your lifes.
Thank you, the vast majority agree, why we think the offer is more than fair.
Much respect. Sad that management is too incompetent to understand that to make good money long term, quality products must be delivered. With this company, all is lost because delivering quality products requires knowledge in manufacturing engineering, but will be too hard to apply for a management team not understanding the basic principle on how to make money - which is to be good at meeting or exceeding customer expectations. The only hope for the shareholders in this company is that competition also suck at manufacturing. The company would not stand a chance against a competitor who understands that building boats right the first time is much more cost efficient and the only way to increase profit margins in the long run.
It is a very sad situation that has got out of hand for them for not taking it seriously enough.
Best of luck. Been following you and Parlay from the beginning. As a retired Senior Manufacturing Engineer and fellow sailor this makes me sick with much empathy and understanding. 😢😢😢 You cannot get back your lost youth, health, peace and serenity. Strive for what feels right in your gut. When we retired we practically gave our boat away to relieve the stress and financial responsibilities. Of course we miss it, houses still have many many of the same issues daily. The land appreciates as the home and contents falls apart with age. It’s life. Meditate, hug your family and dog.❤❤
Very interesting! Robertson & Caine splash the Cats right next door to me in Cape Town Harbour at the current rate of 3 - 5 every week. I've probably seen over 1000 boats being splashed in the last 7 years & watched them doing "sea trials" in the basin behind me.
Their finishing crew fluctuates & consists of between 50 & 80 workers on any given day, depending on the number of boats in the water. On the surface & without casting a critical eye, the boats look well built & well finished, but no doubt, a deeper dig will reveal numerous flaws.
As a matter of interest, they splashed their new 46 Electric Cat on Friday (5 July 24)
Send us the photos of the new electric cat.
@@travelsketch It's pouring with rain here, for the whole week, but I'll see what I can do. I have a feeling that it may be on their FB page, but I'm strategically off FB, so I can't be sure.
From what I can see of your snags from the one video I've watched sofar, the problems seem to be more in the construction process than the finishing.
I think that they're pushing hulls out as quickly as possible & that the cracks are forming as a result of them loading the boats onto trucks, before the resin has cured.
Respect to your email to leopard. It s just fair what you wrote. I don’t understand that the “management “ can respond during travel? They should have a laptop with them……. A much greater respect, again, to YOUR PROFESSIONALISM to write this email!!! I hope, pray you all get a positive response!! Let’s keep fingers crossed that they accept your peaceful offer and all can get forward at this point!!!! LETS THINK POSITIVE………………..
Thank you, cheers for the ongoing weekly support :) your comments and others like it lift us up. :)
A fellow cruiser just told me Leopard are releasing a 46 electric model.... very sneaky, maybe they are ditching this model after so many issues.... I really hope they make you right, this is so sad 😢 Praying for bettet things 🙏
Yes someone just told us thanks. There is even an owners group for it already. Hopefully they still support the issues they caused and don't just discontinue the 45.
Leopard is incapable of producing a seaworthy standard cat. Can't imagine them making anything close to a safe electric vessel.
Yeah, the most common thing we have heard since.
Good work 🎉 for advocating for owners curating that intelligence report ….
:)
I have read the email offer for the start of negotiations and your opening round requirements. I think you are being entirely reasonable. But rather predictably they have given you a stiff ignoring. I sincerely hope things start to improve for you on all fronts (Nino getting paid, your invoices getting paid and a rigorous repair effort by the ‘specialist repair team’). Best wishes.😀⛵️👍
Thank you, Trent said we can do what we like as he would prefer to be open and honest anyway. The only people scared of the truth are those doing the wrong thing.
Leopard Catamarans RIP 🪦.
Yes, had we known they were up for sale and trying to make the business look desirable, there is no way he would have purchased the boat.
So many commenters talking about losing so much time in your 20s. Try saving up your entire life for a boat like this and then wasting years in your 50s or 60s. Even bigger tragedy. I’ll stick with monohulls for 3 times less money and 10 times fewer headaches. Best of luck!
I do empathise.
I can't believe I just discovered your channel. Your experience with a new boat is even worse than ours was in 2021, by a lot. We only lasted 9 months before selling. We bought a new Nautitech open 40. Right off the bat we discovered one of our 3 chart plotters didn't work properly. The hatch latches didn't latch and were at the limits of their adjustability. The list goes on and on and on. We stayed near our dealer in the BVI's for two months going on 2-3 day outings. Every week we came back to the dealer with a new list of broken things. What they didn't tell us was that the warranty for all accessories (non-hull items like electronics) covered parts but not labor. Forget about the cost to stay in a marina waiting for repairs, or the cost to haul out, etc, etc. We were told by a local captain that a significant part of charter company revenues and profits were based on maintenance and repair work. So there was a perverse incentive to build charter boats that break and generate more revenue. When you sail away from your dealer then you are pretty much on your own. The time, energy, and expense to get something fixed under warranty usually was more than we could afford so we learned how to do most repairs ourselves and paid out of pocket. Fortunately we didn't have the major hull issues that you had. We did have banging in the mast that we never figured out before selling the boat. Something inside was loose.
Your have guts to talk so openly about this topic. Most folks are afraid to bad mouth their boats because it could affect the resale value. What I learned from our experience is that it's better to be the second owner of a boat. Let the first guy get it sorted out. Hopefully they are honest like you and fix things correctly and don't just pass on their boat load of problems to the next owner. As frustrating as our experience was, we learned a lot and would like to do it again. Next time we will have much more realistic expectations. The rule of thumb that maintenance cost are 10-15%/year of hull value are not far off, even (especially) for new boats under warranty.
It is very disturbing. It has only become the norm because people are too weak to do something about it which allow issues to compound.
Being robbed of time, health, and youth would be next to impossible to place a value upon. Looking back over my decades of life, priceless is where I land. How much is enough to compensate you and make it right is the million dollar question.
Well said.
We saw the same Leopard 45 at St Vincent Grenadines, where the stay attachment to the hull was bulging. In other words, the hull started to deform!
All these excuses are ridiculous. You document everything so perfect!! BTW…. Can you list perhaps what is correct in your boat… I think this list would be short!!
The stuff we repaired or installed. xD
@@travelsketchI want to laugh but I want to cry
I suspect the flaw relates to the style of boat given so many different brands are having these issues . These are BIG and heavy , they are not a small flexible Polynesian cat . They need to be stiff so doors open and close and cabinets don't rip off . . That is the flaw , it is more fundamental than just bad build quality . .
A 50 foot boat with a beam 30 feet or so can end up with one end of one hull on one wave and the other end of the other hull on a different wave twisting the whole boat . It is a HUGE 60 foot + lever . Add in the load of the rig with all the sails up . Then on top they load the boats up with all the luxury gear adding more weight to lift . This wave twisting them can happen over and over again .
You would never lift these boats on lift out on one end of the hull and the other end of the other hull or even set it down like that and not expect it to break .
The lever of being on different waves is why wooden monohulls have a maximum length before the are just unseaworthy . I think the style of boat is going to need a rethink as to design or they are just good as costal party platforms for charter and then gotten rid of after a few years
All interesting things to consider.
Additionally, one could organize an ALERT ranking of life and limb safety and seaworthy defects for the following: 1. Insurance companies worldwide. 2. Boat surveyors worldwide. 3. US Coast Guard 4. Catamaran boat marinas. Inputs provided by verified boat owners and/or other professionals into a database with automatic alerts to all subscribers owners and regulatory offices cited above.
As long as the actions wouldn't affect the cruising lives of others.... Trent won't allow us to cause trouble with other peoples live and insurability or we would be turfed off the boat. xD
If I didn't stop to watch multiple videos of this story I wouldn't have believed it. 100% criminal boat builder !
Thanks for the comment and support :)
Wow my mind is blown away with every episode that I watch. This is worse than a soap opera, it's hard to believe that this drama is really happening. And happening multiple time's. Personally I wouldn't want to keep the hull, I could never feel safe crossing oceans in it. I really hope for you sake that this nightmare is finally sorted out quickly.
it's never even dawned on me to purchase a production cat for personal use, it's got to be well built, light and performative for me to live on
Probably because good people have gone ahead of you and disclosed their experience. We have seen small batch catamarans turn out like utter trash due to failure in construction or design. Be careful, broad strokes aren't always accurate.
Sounds like they are following how the RV industry works.
I am sure the African courts provide great remedies :)
Trent thinks he will just be shot leaving the airport so can't go back.
What should scare you about these major failures is that which you can not see . A great deal of these new boats is hidden and when bulkheads are already failing it is scary , that is structural . That bulkhead would not be there if it was not needed in a world of build them as cheap as you can .
What can't you see behind cabinets and liners ? This is not just a blemish or misalignment .
WAY too much money to spend on a boat and get this , Lagoon is bad too . I will stick with my 40 year old boat where the bulkheads and hull to deck joint are fully glassed in and as solid as the day she was laid down .
"WAY too much money to spend on a boat and get this" we agree. total BS
I wanted to reach out and say something about your situation to try and give you some positive feedback but I’ve sat here at my screen and I am just speechless, the callous vindictive way you have all been treated is sickening, in any other industry across the world you would have been sorted.
I would have been in the market for a leopard but have now decided to go with HH and I would advise anyone else to look very very hard before choosing a Robertson and crane built anything, including wheelbarrows.
Build in Asia avoid South Africa
Thank you for your support and comment, feel free to let them know as it may help make our situation better.
Leopard\R&K's game plan is to drag it out. It's a way to make it difficult and time consuming to file a claim. Hopefully the buyer will give up and do it without warranty approval and pay for it out of pocket. SAD CAPITALISM AT IT'S FINEST
It works until someone stands up to them.
When you purchase a new car from a dealer, if something fails during the warranty period, the dealer “deals” with it. Example, if an alternator, or an O2 sensor fails, the customer doesn’t have to call Japan to have the warranty applied. If you buy a 2-3 million dollar RV from Liberty, or Newell, they warranty everything for 2 years.
Yes a big takeaway from this. Why buy a new boat at all when you deal with this circus.
I feel so sorry for you guys , this is just so bad , I doubt you will ever get that boat to a standard where it should be , and if you do you will hate the boat by then , I don’t see any chance of them giving you another boat , in the perfect world it would
Just be nice to get a full refund 😢
We learn to love the boat because so many friends have worked on it and helped us. We look around and see a lot of memories. We did used to see it as you say but that state of mind is a choice.
I too was headed to Annapolis this fall to look at these, specifically the 45 and 50. Faults happen. How they are handled says everything. Missed items from punch happen, but no excuse for how this is being handled. They should have a deal with a few boatyards around the world to handle and expedite these fixes that take you off the water. If you cannot get to them, they should have a clear and quick process to reimburse repairs to get you sailing again. Why would I pay 1.2M for this? I'll buy an existing boat and refit it before I would deal with this.
Yes, they attempted to use an all inclusive contractor who failed and left a mess. We are very reasonable people. Hence why they are still working with us. I think they understand we have gone beyond patient. Obviously the worst and most inflammatory issues are not even online. Keep that in mind when forming a conclusion. I'd suggested sending them an email note to do better by us, not just commenting here. They may develop as a business in year or two going through this process with us and other boats and helping us may help yourself.
6:13 As someone who does exactly the type of work as your repair portal… it would be shocking to me if they had anyone on the team with knowledge of boats and warranties. And (sadly) the three fault issue is not surprising to me at all. Actually, it s endemic to the way people in general describe their needs combined with their perception of developers. Most likely the requirement said “multiple issues” and the devs looked around at each other and guessed three. And from what I have seen I would suspect there are limits on your browser being an issue.
8:54 that list came from their database allowing free text. I would expect the page to allow you to add anything you wish.
As a note, the submission is using a 3rd party product for forms (JotForms). All in all, I suspect that the company has a minimal IT staff. They likely don’t have a separate record of the tapes which is how they missed the initial problems.
Consider petitioning to suspend the builder's seaworthy certification until a full investigation completed. Even if denied, the social network value of lost sales would exceed the settlement value.
How do you do that? feel free to email us on the site.
Thanks for the support anyway
I thought owning a Leopard cat would be great. After watching your videos I’m not so sure anymore.
Let the builder Robertson and Caine know. They couldn't build our 45 properly and now they think they can pump out hybrid electric boats.
Binged watched i have thumbs up >got kind of perplexed feeling animosity however proof is in the pudding and yes warranty it is not a promise its the right to complain it is the right to find falor ont htr builder auto goes to manufacture but the manufacture did not install so you are screwed the auto pilot that was a good vid to me back yard mechanics no engineering at all what he pionted out was so simple just a key ray marine usually sends the units with a gear (what happen there) >> MAY THE LOVE OFF GOD FILL YOUR SOULS to think i was going to buy one Thank You
Please let Leopard know why you aren't buying one and to make our situation right.
Leopard is not a blue water boat no matter what they claim, few production boats are. I'd like to see some stats on how many claims come from those who use them as blue water boats versus those who use them as coastal boats. It might be possible to get a good one if you purchase new and have an independent pre purchase survey and only use them as a coastal vessel.
Tynan said that there is also a large quality variance between nicer hulls and crap ones.
That’s heritage comments, go back to the 2010 L46 and you don’t need to ask Leopard or R&C, ask the owners who sailed them through the biggest weather and she flies as a true blue water vessel. When Leopard decided to freight out of Cape Town and the feedback loop disappeared and key persons also squeezed out with corporate politics, gone was the commitment to the heritage proudly presented by the founder of R&C. You the new buyer are sponsoring big profits for inferior boats.
I have been building boats for 30 years for Lloyd's, Bv,Dnv, and ABS, to name a few, and very few production boats are anywhere near blue water spec
@@danielwheeler5883 Let them say what they want, but the 2010 L46 was built like a brick and respected as a Blue water boat. The current line up, forget it, if only the windows would not fall out on a rough ride, that’s after the joints fail and the auto pilot needs repairs and bulk heads or mast wiring or blah blah blah. It’s a first you hear from me, buy an older boat and refit it, just not out of Caribbean charter.
is it me or do Leopard Catamarans have no idea about how to bild a sail boat
Interesting! -- QUESTION -- We watched the bulkhead review by youtubers "Sailing Sisu" who have a Leopard 45 and their one seemed so so nice and no cracks anywhere. She did a video of every bulkhead etc on the boat. In fact, we were really impressed and were thinking Leopard is the way to go. But after watching this it is like night and day. What's going on here? Any idea why such a huge difference in quality?
They have had cracks in places, they posted them in the owners group like front of bows. I wonder if they have a contract for percentage of every hull they sell? Who knows? Maybe ask them to put a response in writing either way if they have ever had a conflict of interest in information delivery.
@@travelsketch ...did not know that,, If you have a video link or something I would love to see it.
Most modern "new" boats these days come with built-in issues from the factory because most manufacturers are squeezing their pennies so hard they cry, and this is the result. I think there's only 1 or 2 manufacturers out there still that actually build a quality product.
Not really, we track frequency of issues across brands. Robertson and Caine got similarly bad to Lagoon but those two are the worst IMO.
People with a Lagoon or Leopard too easily say that it is the same for everyone and it isn't
@@travelsketch I was speaking in general, not just the catamaran market :) I may not have been super clear, it was late... I just meant to say that current-day penny-pinch manufacturing will inevitably lead to issues down the line, and that across all new built boats I feel the number of "big" issues has risen. I mean, there's always going to be something because boats are inherently somewhat complex bits of manufacture, but... yeah. Anyways :) Like I said it was late and I may not have communicated what I had in mind properly but... also it was late so I kind of forgot the point I was trying to get across. Or maybe I'm getting old...
You know as I see more and more of these new boats falling apart way too early I wonder if it might be better to get an old proven design and spend 100k fixing it up instead of spending 500k on junk . Tougher to do with a cat but certainly a good idea with a monohull .
Friend has a Beneteau that is fairly new , the interior is cheap laminates but looks pretty, the hull to deck joint is weak , the bulkheads are not all glassed and so on . My 40 year old boat the interior is teak , the floors , teak and Holly , pretty much as big down below too as they are both aft cabin . I can not believe how things like fridges , lights and transmissions are going on the Beneteau .
If I was to put in a fraction of what he spent buying the boat , not including his repairs and upgrades money it would be a much better boat and that is basically what I am doing right now . One of the things I am doing is keeping the old good stuff and refurbishing it . I was on a buddies Lagoon this year and was surprised all the catches were falling apart and corroding for example, I will keep my old ones .
Bad news by the way , the cracked bulkheads have not happened YET on your boat partly because it has spent half its life on the hard and not suffering the load cycles it should have .
If they fail on multiple other boats they will fail on all that are used eventually . You might want to add in preemptively fixing them before they fail .
😢
Screw that . Just send them an email or your own word pdf with all the pics . Much easier
We are trying to help other owners. "Leopard" have said that this is the fastest way. I'm sure that they will step up now. :)
Honestly, even without having seen your issues, I wouldn’t likely buy a new yacht if I won millions of dollars. If I did, consideration would be limited to a couple brands which have documented heavy QA process.
Ya, best Ikea boat ever.
First the lagoons 450 bulkhead mess now this with Leopards. The executive compensation in the short term probably goes against admitting and mistake and taking responsibility for it.
Whatever the reason for these delays it is BS and people will take a good hard look at risking buying the product.
OMG
Ya
Hey guys, just trying to understand this final email "Peace Offer" you sent to Leopard: So Leopard offered $250k to you? But you instead want a full refund of the hull price, aftermarket installs, expenses/repairs, extended warranty, AND keep the boat?
I could understand a full refund + expenses/damages paid, and then you walk away. But (and correct me if I'm wrong here) you're basically asking for the boat to be free.
Love your videos and you are great helpful people, but is there not another compromise you can make that just gets them back on your side and helping you? I want to see you guys out there sailing, not stressing out at the boat yard!
And I KNOW how this goes. I'm sitting here in Guatemala getting ready to spend $40-60k repairing my bulkheads, replacing my rigging, fixing a dented crossbeam that my purchase surveyor marked as "cosmetic damage" and has only gotten worse over time, and a variety of safety issues and Lagoon defects. So I'm 100% on your side!
And as you well know, I had a little "dinghy issue" where a defect caused it to be lost at sea. I asked for a refund or a new boat. Company chose new boat. I could have fought for my expenses waiting around in florida for 4 months, but I knew that would delay getting me back on the water.
I know it's hard to hear, because you guys have been in the shit for so long, but: It's probably going to get you guys back on the water faster if you do lighten up your offer and compromise a little bit.
Hope you guys get all this work done and we see you out there next season! - SV Saguaro
That email is as stated, a start point for negotiations. Remember how many YEARS we have lost. Also keep in mind you don't know the worst of it or the whole story as we keep that up our sleeves. Next week will better explain why we won't just hand it back. Really all we are asking is damages translate to a refund for tax purposes.
If they offered me 250K for the first period of issues and now that period will essentially double in time, what is reasonable for damage caused? Would you start negotiating at what you wanted or start higher and arrive at what you should get?
@@travelsketch I see. I think you guys may have not explained it well in video, as you said it's a Final Offer. My mistake
@@trentspencer7991 I might start higher, sure. But something that still sounds reasonable.
$250k is not enough for compensation. For one, You are going to get CRUSHED when you re-sell that boat and have to divulge all the issues. Leopard should absolutely compensate for that and MORE. My arguments for compensation would be around re-sale value, fair payment for lost time, and a commitment to fixing the boat. Or just pay me for my time/pain and suffering, refund me for the boat purchase/upgrades, and I'll go buy a Seawind! Or maybe with the pain and suffering money, jump up to a Balance :)
But I also don't think you can ask for EVERYTHING to be at no cost. If I were Leopard, I might think "hey these guys are just not willing to negotiate." Kind of like the opposite of a low-ball offer on a house/something you're selling, and you just ignore the person.
Like you said, I don't know the full story. Just my opinion on what I'd do in your situation.
Final as in exploring other options if you don't start negotiating.
ASK FOR A REPLACEMENT BOAT !!!!
We would if we thought they could build one properly.
Well, that should scare away any remaining potential customers for a Leopard Catamaran. I would never buy one.
Please let the shipbuilder know. So they make this right.
FLEX SEAL will fix it 😂😂😂
I would never own a leopard from all the stories from owners.
Please let the shipbuilder know.
The lack of response from Leopard management sends a clear message to all potential catamaran buyers: stay away from this brand. It's unbelievable, and I hope it works out for you in the end.
Thanks for the support.
The only answer is for them to give you a new boat or return your money.
They won't just hand over a new boat and they won't replace all the custom works.
I agree that litigation isn't the answer and should probably be a last resort. A sane company would work with you in a good faith manner to protect their business. Your videos and those of others in a similar position must be costing them sales. You have what looks like a lovely cruising cat. But I'd not be inclined to buy one if I was in the market for a new or second hand boat. The build quality looks like too much of a liability to me.
Thanks for the support
DEI boat
I would do everything i can to get out of that boat. Even if you loose some money. I think the design itself is unsafe for any proper blue water sailing. The boom is waaay too high (risk of capsizing because of the leverage) and its extremely heavy for a catamaran. Speed and light weight are your only safety features with a catamaran. It will bog down and flip instead of surfing waves in big seas and you need speed to avoid big seas in the first place. Even if you got one without any defects I'd still poorly suited for blue water cruising let alone one as poorly built as yours and the idea it might have bulkhead issues like the boat in this vid. Sorry for being such a doomer.
The design is actually fine and they seem to have a good safety record considering how many there are and how badly some are build. If nothing else it has good design going for it.
Well there's only one solution for that boat send it back to factory ask your money back .
No way I stay with that scrap
and then what?
Never buying a leopard after watching this video
Let them know so they do better.
would have been easier to sink the boat and get a payout than deal with that bs
yeah a lot would change with hindsight
Sadly you don't hawe a new boat any more, you hawe a patch work!
Lawsuit. Stop playing around.
Cry more
Bad show from R&C. Arrogence has caused them to lose millions in lost sales. One would have thought that the management would have cracked some whips and gotten their teams to sort out their issues. Would have been a totally diffent message going out here that this comany goes the extra mile and would have generated confidence in the brand and their product. I think it goes to show that the issues at the company start at the top and filter down.
What they should have done in Cape Town instead of screwing the boys around for several months and still having windows peel off.
Sounds to me like yours and others warranty repairs are just a flea to the whole body of the leopard company. A little pesky but it's not affecting sake.
Oh and let's make the portal a bit cumbersome to navigate so try to deter all but the persistent owners.
Thank you for the support. We have worked so hard on the hull and they don't have a better boat for us.
So sorry for your boat having piss pour craftsmanship and the Leopard people not caring about you. Your dreams are for sure shattered. It's a time and money thing and you can't put a value on time because there's only so much of it. You should be having the time of your lives right now but instead, your sitting in a boat yard and paying out of pocket for another place to live and many other things that you shouldn't have to let alone schedule everything yourselves. Leopard needs to honor you by taking care of everything in a timely manor. They also need to make you hole on all of your expenses due to this inconvenience. Note to self, don't get a Leopard boat of any kind. I'm going to get an aluminum catamaran instead of a fiberglass Leopard after hearing about your dealings and Parlay Revile.
Our next hull would have been aluminium. This one would have been as well if they were available at the time.
@@travelsketch They actually are available. Sailing Into Freedom, Delos, Sailing Life on Jupiter, Explocat 52 and there are a few others.
They weren't available during lockdown when we had to buy.
@@travelsketch It sounds like you checked. Yep, Tim took a break but is now back at it.
One more thing, your negotiation letter is absurd. Full refund and you keep the boat? Come on. They should make the needed repairs, reimburse documented and necessary repairs and compensate for lost time. Alternatively, lemon - law the boat (using a US car term) and have them buy it back from you entirely.
What would the compensation for over two years of lost time be? Read between the lines. The compensation is rolled into a refund instead of direct payment for tax reasons. This will be further explored in this weeks video, touching on the HUGE amount of work and customisation we put into the hull.
@@travelsketch Listen I build things. Big, expensive buildings. I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice. I have been involved and even pulled into lawsuits over things like this. Ultimately, you made the choice to do the upgrades you did, you opted to spend your time working on the boat instead of doing something else. If it was unusable and sat, I think you'd have a good case for a full refund of money spent, but not keep the boat. I am not an attorney, but have seen hundreds of thousands spent on lawsuits where you know you are in the right but you end up settling for far less to move on with life. Are these problems ok? Not even remotely. Should it have taken this long to fix them all, also no. If you'd brought the boat to Ft. Lauderdale or someplace with an authorized group and handed over the survey and all the other things you did to find the problems, then you'd be in a strong position to make them fix it quickly as it would be occupying dock space and then yard space they'd be paying for. All of your items are fixable, annoying on a NEW boat, but fixable. Get another survey when complete and make sure it is done before you take the boat again. Lost time is tricky and tough to quantify. If this was a charter boat and out of service due to these issues, you can bet it would have been fixed QUICK.
"Way too pedantic"??? Not sure what those people are smoking.
Thanks for the comment :)
Details matter when it's your home and your life could be on the line when you are out there on the water. If they wanted a 'fixer-upper' I assume they would have bought a used boat.
Unless your hull is made with aluminium a fibre glass boat should not be used to cross oceans to much flex imagine getting hit by a rouge wave it would delaminate!
😂😂😭😂😂
Sorry to say this but you are to soft and forgiving. These are multi billion $ companies and not hitting them where it hurts is wrong.Your life's have been ripped apart thru all this and them giving you pittence for all that shit they put you thru is bu......t. Take them to the cleaners. THAT'S ALL I'LL SAY !!!!!!!!!!
These companies make very little money. It's all pulled out by the investment firms. Same exact thing is happening with Outremer. They gobble up companies, sell everything possible to pay the debt then part out the rest.
@@HH44_OC I think the sailing community is very big if you look at the amount of money people spend on buying these boats. You ALL should stand together and help you take them to court!!! Because you have a very good shot at giving all boat builders an eye opening for the future. Its like the Write bothers took a chance to build something that can fly and look at it today!!! You must and i think you have a responsibility to all boat owners and future owners to do it. It is peoples' lives that they are playing with. PS : On a lighter note. You will be remembered as the people that made sailing SAFE for others AND what a legacy you will leave for your children. That they can say to the future generation. Look my Mother and Father made it possible for us to go sailing in a safe and seaworthy vessel.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PS sorry for the long reply .
You guys are to soft……Sorry, but I will say what I said many times…..Sue them for the cost of vessel and damages…
Probably but see what happens.
Thanks for he support though :)
Indeed. Why they have put up with this BS for so long is beyond me! I would've drawn the line way back when and sued R&C's socks off.
It’s so expensive to sue and it takes such a looooong time
@@ajsonstegard5729 that’s what litigation is time and money. If you win, you can be awarded damages and legal fees….How much time and money gave they wasted to date???
That’s heritage comments, go back to the 2010 L46 and you don’t need to ask Leopard or R&C, ask the owners who sailed them through the biggest weather and she flies as a true blue water vessel. When Leopard decided to freight out of Cape Town and the feedback loop disappeared and key persons also squeezed out with corporate politics, gone was the commitment to the heritage proudly presented by the founder of R&C. You the new buyer are sponsoring big profits for inferior boats.
Thanks for the continued support Larry. We have heard a bit about you. All positive. Maybe call them up and tell them what you think of the treatment of the next generation who bought a boat hoping for some South African pride in the product. Obviously we were too late to the party as you say. Trent specifically collected in Cape Town as he has many South African friends and was meant to visit farms and have an experience. All burned up trying to get the boat seaworthy and fitted out. Extremely sad. Now the boys will likely be shot on exiting the airport in SA.
@@travelsketch Please note that I’m not taking any pleasure out of these comments, its hugely disappointing but its a conscious decision to downgrade the quality and techniques of manufacture, and is surly even more disappointing to the owners who have all this work to repair boats and hassle of being is boatyards, dealing with what has always been stressful, WARRANTY. Remember, I’m South African, so I only wish the best for R&C if they deserve it, they get no slack for delivering poor quality product, L46 is the standard the original owners demanded.
Well now they are making a 46 hybrid, likely in the 45 factory. Bet that goes well. Bet they don't let us survey it.
We don't think you have anything but the best intentions.
Leopards are high price junk.
Well ours was. The components weren't too bad but the build quality putting them all together....
That’s heritage comments, go back to the 2010 L46 and you don’t need to ask Leopard or R&C, ask the owners who sailed them through the biggest weather and she flies as a true blue water vessel. When Leopard decided to freight out of Cape Town and the feedback loop disappeared and key persons also squeezed out with corporate politics, gone was the commitment to the heritage proudly presented by the founder of R&C. You the new buyer are sponsoring big profits for inferior boats.
Unbelievable poor quality and customer service. Future buyer beware. Actually can’t imagine anyone buying one of these boats.
If we saw this, we wouldn't have. Let them know