A Meticulous Examination of Time Travel in Trek
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
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If section 31 got its hands on timetravel technology first, that would explain why the earth/federation was so prosperous. They always tweaked Events a little so our heros would eventually come out on top
It would be awesome if the new Section 31 show was about their time agents tweaking events in favor of the Federation. An overall well-meaning goal, but likely done through immoral means. Easily a time period-of-the-week show we haven’t seen in Trek.
@@EvilVacuum that would be epic!!!
A small price to pay for salvation
Given how many times Kirk and crew traveled through time, I don't see how Section 31 wouldn't know how to do it.
...even with Kirk and crew never making reference to The Guardian of Forever in their log entries.
Are you a Secret Hideout writer?
I love the exchange between Archer and Daniels. At first Archer is all like "im in charge here, you answer to me", then Daniels pulls out the device, Archer realizes he doesn't know shit and is like "uhhhh"
"Why did future guy use inferior time travel tech"
easy answer? Using a timepod or similar would be tracked, and he would be easily caught and stopped. So he uses bootleg projection technology that's harder for his era's timecops to trace.
I was thinking it might be simply a taste for old school. Like, a gun "collector" goes for a walk in the woods and takes a 1894 model lever gun instead of an AR. But enough about my weekend.
@@TommygunNG i could see that.
"If you got it, Flaunt it."
my thought was that he didn't like getting his own hands dirty so even if he could meet the suliban cabal face to face he wouldn't because he's the mastermind type and likes to hang in the shadows and control people like puppets
It's because, as the writers confirmed years later, Future Guy was intended to be Archer in the future "fixing" the timeline. Making right, what once went wrong, as it were.
@@TommygunNG ,
When you reach the point all technology is indistinguishable from magic, being 'retro' is no drawback.
I loved the bit with Vosk in Star Trek Online. Vosk escaped through time! We have to go after him! Wait...it looks like Captain Archer dealt with that for us.
At the end of the Dominion War, The Klingon Empire was in a shambles and Cardassia was an occupied nation-state. The only two Alpha Quadrant powers to come out it reasonable intact were the Federation and the Romulan Star Empire...
... And we know that the Romulans would only have about a decade before things would take a very bad turn for them (Something a faction with time travelling ability would know).
Based upon that, it could be argued that the Dominion War was necessary to insure the long term growth and prosperity of the Federation.
One could expand on your stated argument with the new facts how the Dominion isolated to only the gamma quadrant coupled with Janeway's Alliance with powers in the Delta quadrant and the crippling of the Borg for a few decades helped spread the Federation and its ideals across the galaxy by the 31st century as we saw in the 32nd century on Discovery
“The Federation have become Lords of Time.”
Great, now you got me wanting a massive crossover war between the 31st Century Federation, the Sphere-Builders, the Time Lords, and the Daleks, culminating in the Last Great Time War, with its Could-Have-Been King & his army of Meanwhiles & Neverweres, and the Nightmare Child threatening all of existence.
... yeah ...
"No More"
Now I'm thinking of Rose Tyler possessed by the Bad Wolf and annoying the War Doctor. 😜🤣There have been crossovers with Star Trek and Doctor Who, in novel form.
I got a little deja-vu from time to time while watching this 😁
Hot take: the historian from the 26th century time pod is why future guy just sends his image back in time because the time pod pilot GOT KILLED in the 22nd century. And hey Daniels got killed while mucking about with the 22nd century too, so yeah, safer not to physically travel back that time.
Actually Travelling in time is also dangerous for yourself... If you are making changes to the timeline. If you go back and cause something that stops you travelling back in time... You cause a paradox, should you exist to stop yourself going through time? But if you never travel back, but instead tweak the timeline... If you change something that stops you sending messages back... you still continue to exist, just not as the person sending the messages.
Or in the case of Enterprise - The past can no longer contact you.
In Enterprise we see that "future guy" is erased from the future when Archer is removed from the timeline by Daniels... This means that something Archer caused or did... Created "future guy" and Daniels removing him. Removed "future guy" from the timeline as well. Because it was daniels and not future guy that made the change... It was permanant and therefore future guys "protection" from the timeline vanished. But Daniels caused a paradox that his tech ceased to exist. Daniels should have vanished. But maybe him making the action protected him from the timeline changes.
A bit like a grandfather paradox. But you would have to keep the grandson in the equation protected from the changes to cause the changes... Therefore the paradox resolves by making a new universe and timeline. NB: is time travel you moving into another universe and changing a varible... ??
If the Vulcan didn't want their people to mess up their ownselves or others, how better not to give them the idea of time travel by telling them it doesn't exist in a way they would understand: science -via the Vulcan Science Directorate which T'Pol often quoted. When Cpt. Archer takes her back to 2004 Detroit, she's only moderately convinced. If he wanted to punish her-instead of shoving her through an airlock, he could left her behind in the 21st century and hoped she could figure out how to return to the 22nd. century. Fortunately, he didn't as he needed her and she the crew.
Section 31 could learn a lesson from garek. Be plain and simple, those black suits stand out too much
Hot take: section 31 is from the 31st century.
Or the 31st millennium? Hail God-Emperor Kirk! Master of Mankind!
@@XSilver_WaterX Sounds like some HORUS HERESY to me! Plus we all know the Omnissiah does not approve of false prophets with weak and feeble flesh.
"There is no truth in flesh, only betrayal."
"There is no strength in flesh, only weakness."
"There is no constancy in flesh, only decay."
"There is no certainty in flesh but death."
I don't think they need that lesson since no one after ST Discovery ever sees them anymore up until DS9 and then only Ross and Bashir knew.
He’s even be able to make them better uniforms.
I believe the writers of Star Trek: Enterprise have said in interviews that Future Guy was intended to be Archer. If the show had continued it was intended to be one of the final revelations of the show. It makes sense too. The only reason to hide a face like that would have been if you are hiding a person we already know, as of the first episode, or hiding the race but with very few options based on body type (i.e. Human, Vulcan or Romulan). Vulcan are too obvious based on how the show was being written at the beginning, Romulans are also too obvious as a bad guys, which leaves Humans. It being Archer, making right what once went wrong (see what I did there) actually makes a nice narrative bookend to the show.
But wasn’t Future Guy, yknow, actively working against the NX-01 crew? He tried to frame them in Shockwave, and I’m pretty sure he was the cause of the TCW, then again, I might be wrong, it’s been a long -road- time since I’ve watched Enterprise, but still, I don’t think Archer would have lived long enough to see the 28th Century, much less be able to partially time travel, because as we see with Daniels, that thing’s dangerous.
@@L1z43vr This is just what the creators have said in interviews so who knows that would have really happened if the show continued. That said Time Travel can be used to explain away inconsistencies. Anything "Future Guy" did that was viewed a villainess could have been retconned as "You didn't have the whole picture." or "I had to take chances because the stakes were too high." or "You would have made the same call if you knew where the original time line lead." or all of the above. That sort of thing. You can see them leading the Archer character in the "I'll do anything to save my people and Earth." direction during the Zindi story ark (the entire 3rd season I believe). As for not living until the 28th Century, personally, I always figured they had recovered time travel communication tech from some enemy of the week later in his career, probably after Earth was destroyed by the Zindi and used it to "fix" things. Knowing his past self would never accept help and the future Federation Time Cops wiped from the timeline he used proxies and did the best he could to push event in the direction they figured best. Even bad things could be rationalized this way like maybe making the Enterprise encounter the Romulans and Klingons earlier than they had in their timeline so as to push Star Fleet to militarize earlier so they would be better prepared for the Zindi and Sphere Builders.
That's just me, you can think up anything that makes the most sense to you. It seems clear they had an intended goal originally but never got there or scrapped it for some dumb reason. Time Travel was getting old by this point in Star Trek and there had been fan complaints at the time about it being over used and overly confusing. Maybe they just chickened out due to fan reactions. Your guess is as good as mine.
After watching "From Federation Temporal Enlightenment to Banishment", just before this, I almost thought I had time traveled and saw this before lol!!
Haha sorry.. I usually do a super cut because some people wait for the series to be done
@@LoreReloaded No worries lol. I didn't mean that in a bad way either. I genuinely noticed halfway through the video that I remembered this from a while ago and went "WTF?" Great video though. I really liked that DS9 episode too and all the wisecracks about time travel like "You guys are always on time", and when Sisko said that if there was any differences in the timeline, they would know it so that lad says "I hate it when the says that". One of the best lighthearted episodes ever. Keep the good stuff coming dude!!
Well of course, the first species in the galaxy/universe that can use time travel technology without creating alternate realities is going to completely adjust everything in their favor.
Why wouldn't they?
Years ago I read a Star Trek novel where the Romulans spent close to a century playing with Time before the Borg wipe out their outposts. Which is one of the reason why their men & women behave the way they do.
Point being they killed of Earth and the Klingon empire before they got started, end result ..
The Klingons were responsible for crushing multiple enemies in time before they could wreak the Romlans.
And Vulcan merchants/ Romlan spies stealing Federation tech which help empower their empire. Also human/ Romlan hybrids tend to be more aggressive and productive cause of the impulses of the human's short lived lives.
Two short lived species are the Romlan forge and wet stone.
I want two things from Star Trek. An NX or U.S.S. Roddenberry and more mini skirts in outer space. Man I miss those uniforms
Specialization in older technology is still used today as a measure of information system security. You can't hack what you're not familiar with.
Two security measures:
Keep everything up to date.
OR
Use legacy systems that few are familiar with and are not actively being tracked or targeted.
Both have their trade-offs.
Had to join your Patreon. The content quality is exceptional. Thank you! 🙏🏾
Glad you enjoy!
Im proud of you msn! I've watched from the start, keep the good work up @LoreReloaded
In 2410 the Federation, Klingon Empire and Romulan Republic are heavily engaged in a losing war against the Iconians. Desperate for help, the Federation called upon the remnant of the Krenim Imperium that Voyager had battled against in 2374. The Krenim were given the technology and resources they needed to aid in a program to force the timeline in allowing the Federation to win. In the process; the species known as the Yuterians were ousted from reality and forced to reside in a sub-dimension, these became the Sphere Builders.
The Krenim scientist; Noye, became infuriated at the loss of his lover, who was a Yuterian and was consumed by his inability to help her or her people due to the Federation's folly, followed by their restrictions and regulations on certain forms of Temporal Manipulation.
This lead to Noye rebelling and recruiting various other factions who wielded temporal or spatial technology.
The Vorgon were enlisted after they realized their right to perform trade and conduct illicit missions through out any point in time would be restricted by the Temporal Accords.
The Krenim chose to follow Noye at the chance to restore the once powerful Krenim Imperium.
The Terran Empire of the 24th Century briefly aided Noye as a repayment to him giving them the USS Defiant in their version of the 22nd Century. However; they quickly lost interest.
The Na'kuhl's Homeworld was destroyed when the Tholians were successfully able to destroy their star in their own effort to try and stop this war from happening in the first place. The Na'kuhl held both the Tholians and the Federation in contempt, one for the destruction of their home and two for the forbidden use of time travel to fix their lost world - they vowed to destroy the Federation and joined Noye's forces.
The Sphere Builders were allied with Noye and aided his operations by exploiting the Xindi, creating a region of space around Procyon 5. This is where the final battle that Daniel's shows Archer, is taking place.
In the 27th century, the Temporal Accords were put in place, but interrupted by Noye's now formed Temporal Liberation Front - this is where the War began.
The various scenes connected to this war throughout ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, and DIS are all connected via what happens in Star Trek Online. And until CBS decides overrule what Star Trek Online has created, this is considered soft-canon.
Scotty didn't alter the timeline by giving away the formula for transparent aluminum while time traveling in 1986. By that time there were already three patents on file for transparent aluminum. The US military started testing it for armor in 2005.
Kruge installed a flux capacitor on his bird of prey
Hahaha this made my day thank you 😂
Hi Lore, I don't want to be a nitpicker but there is a TOS time travel episode that I've noticed never gets mentioned. All Our Yesterdays. This is the episode where the Enterprise goes to a system where the star is about to go nova, and the planetary population has escaped by going back in the planetary timeline.
Now, unlike the other episodes, they don't work out a new time travel method or have access to a working device at the end because the planet is destroyed, but in the early part of the episode Spock and McCoy are using their tricorders an awful lot so I'd be surprised if they didn't pick up something that someone in the future would be able to extrapolate some sort of useful data from. And in fact to me it seems that the tech on display in the episode seems more in line with some of the time travel tech seen later on. Just a thought. Otherwise I love your review of all the time travel stuff.
I've watched that episode quite a few time, and I've been thinking, wouldn't the entire population of Sarpeidon going back to various points of their history affect their timeline in various ways?
@@evertonporter7887 From what I've seen in the episode they had the technology for some time and had been using it for things like punishing political prisoners so they apparently worked out a lot of the issues involving changing their own timeline, like sending people too far back to disrupt history or scattering them about in too small numbers to be able to band together or even find each other to work together.
Also they seem to do some sort of transformation process to those that they send back in time, and based on the reaction Kirk got from the person he encountered it seems to involve instilling a mindset of being extremely reluctant to do anything that might disrupt the timeline or attract attention.
love you Lore you take me away into a world of unseen trek. thanx Bro
Another posibility with Future Guy is given in Voyager. The futurr guy has traveled to many times thru time. He cant travel fully anymore. So he makes up an excuse. We know from the Braxton episode a mental condition can form from certain types of repeated time travel.
Love your content too! You’re one of the best.
Who get's to decide what is the "correct" time line? The Guardian, seemed somewhat neutral about it, and Gary 7 seemed hellbent that he ( and the organization he worked for ) was the authority. To me, that is Trek's biggest problem is that they treat time as linear and that there has to be some sort of corrective action needed. They did try to address this in TNG's finale, with Q teaching Picard a lesson but then screwed it up all over again in First Contact. And then we have the Kelvin timeline which is just a big FU to the canon simply because the inclusion of Spock Prime.
Considering the age of the Guardian and some hints that look like it created himself I doubt that anyone could inflence it's existence. Well, a Q might.
@@grayscribe1342 Reference in one of the non canon Q novels, the Guardian was build by Q's ancestors before they ascended.
Federation time agents know that the prime timeline and the federation only exist because of the temporal incursion caused by the Borg to try to stop humans from meeting Vulcans, which resulted in the creation of the federation and a signal being sent to the Borg to get them to stop the federation, hence a loop. Without that temporal incursion you get the mirror universe. That means that the federation must make sure that the event happened. Once the federation began to unravel they probably shelved time travel so that they could preserve only the necessary events needed to maintain their timeline, so that they don’t have another temporal war that would create even more timelines that may end up interacting with their own timeline, which is probably just so that things can be kept simple.
Hate on the S4E1 plot all you want, that cold open news reel was absolutely epic the 1st time me and my buddies saw it!
do you think Janeway traveling back in time to save Voyager earlier in its timeline was a major instigating event for the Temporal Cold War?
Why would I blame Janeway when I love the story character.
The existence of the universe predicates continuation of temporal wars of different tiers.
Live Forever and Prosper, gopher697.
@@julesverne4339 I do not want to live forever as that would be pure torture! Lol But on the main point, I don't think Janeway being the instigating factor in the Temporal Cold War necessitates you hate her character. It was just an idle thought I had, it seems, 4 months ago. Her manipulation of the time line saw a vast reduction in the Borg's strength, and it was shown that the Borg could travel through time in First Contact, and that there are multiple factions observing the timeline for any manipulations. I think unleashing a virus from the 25th century into the Borg Collective in the 24th and crippling them would definitely kick off some kind of fracas.
Watch that be a point in the Trek Rewrite Project.
probably it was everyone saying fuck the borg
Neither Enterprise nor Discovery would have made any sense without the retcon provided by the timey-wimey stuff in First Contact.
Rasmussen clearly says it was a guy he took the ship from.
"MaN oR wOmAn"
Good sir, please pay attention...
You make me want to break things
Rasmussen also lied to the enterprise crew through the entire episode. Would have been easy for him to lie about if it was a guy or girl.
@@ronbouley4616 Really? That's the best you can come up with?
I Like the Storyline where Vosk Leader of the Nakul went back to the 1930s and Archer Encountered him in the 40s that was a Interesting Story, but I Feel that they should of Just made Vosk Future Guy.
It’s also quite possible that future guy simply wanted to remain as hands off as possible, and used the shadow avatar to maintain separation from who he was controlling.
You forgot to talk about the how that madwoman turned the cold war hot with just one unauthorized, klingon backed time jump. History will forever remember and shudder in fear at the name Janeway.
There were so many bad storylines in Enterprise. The Suliban and the temporal cold war were terrible, but I got a kick out of the alien Nazi episodes. I mean Harry Turtledove's Worldwar series dealt with Earth during WWII having to fight an alien invasion, so it's not like it was never done before.
Video makes sense to me, its always been my theory that Section 31 is responsible for just about every major event in Federation history. Once time travel was possible it essentially seals the fate of everyone who doesn't have access to that technology, you could go anywhere and change anything very much like the Krenim. If no one is policing them then who is going to stop them from having a hand in just about everything?
Possible addition to the theory, the changes in warp drive speeds over time slowly allowing more time travel into the tech for greater jumps in traveling warp speeds... Also I wonder if the paradoxical issue is also something that could tie into your idea of Mr Glasses and Future Guy, specifically the statement he made about traveling through time causing issues with cells implying the use of different tech so he is not actively there just projected to prevent or reduce that danger and the tie back to that and Voyager Warp 10 (traveling every where simultaneously even if named 10 here could be the mix in the shuttle similar to that in the constitution combined with other tech in the modified shuttle showing the direct effect that time travel has on people if done with out the precautions) Some thoughts from a friendly traveler.
The only thing I don't understand is why the temporal forces didn't just send a timeship back and deal with the problem like the USS relativity that was in Voyager I'm assuming that they had more than one time ship. And considering that was their job to stop this kind of thing they should have been doing it rather than bringing the people of that time into it and potentially polluting the timeline
So if temporal investigations investigates alterations in time then how would they go about doing it if any alterations in time would change the timeline? Last I checked if the timeline changes you're not going to notice because you'll be changed right along with the timeline.
More than likely you’re not actually changing your original timeline - you’re creating a new timeline slightly different from your own. If you destroyed your timeline, you wouldn’t have existed in the first place in order change it.
Isnt there that voyager episode where they change time, but the ship does something with the shields to stop being changed
Temporal shielding
If a person from the future of the prime timeline deploys temporal shielding they can detect and observe changes to the timeline yet still maintain themselves within a bubble of the prime timeline.
Section 31 most probably doesn't follow time directives during executive operations. I assume Section 31 have to be supported by the Q Continuum directly, unless Star Trek official timelines get extended further than the ranks of Q Continuum's Kardashev 4 capabilities, as has been necessitated on multiple occasions, across various Star Trek movies and series.
What is with the two guys who visited cap. Sisko in the episode "Trials and Tribbulations"?
Where was that America welcoming Hitler clip from? I can't find it. Wanted to attach to Quora question. Thanks
Future of the star trek is the cool 😎.
Isnt future guy just a future Jonathan Archer? Or at least thats who it was supposed to turn ou to be? (writers intended him to be Archer himself)
That’s what I thought I’ve heard or read somewhere also.
of course, there's also the possibility that any or all major time traveling powers were themselves being puppetmastered by other unseen time travelers, or were lying about their true identities and motives and history to better manipulate the past peoples they were interacting with...
After all, someone from the future who has time travel can probably get all the information and time they need to carefully construct the perfect plan, and possibly even retry that plan as many times as needed since this is time travel that allows history to change, and not just stable loops where the presence of time travelers was always part of what happened...
which very much leads to head aches about how the hell conflicts between two or more time traveling factions can even end, since even if you succeed in changing history to your benefit, your enemy can change it back/to their benefit, or in the case that the changes erased your enemies from existence(ignoring the paradox issues that adds), a completely new faction of other time travelers who have their own reasons to change those events.
basically, anything that isn't stable loop time travel is a impossible mess, every time(s?), stop writing time travel any other way, please.
Multiverse stuff has similar issues(infinity is big, too big), but at least it can theoretically make sense and not brake itself in half just by existing.
The TNG Era warp drives (Which use a differing warp scale and design than the TOS versions) may not have been capable of utilizing the formula and slingshot method of time travel discovered by Spock and Scotty a century earlier.
They may even have been designed so that this method does not work.
Went looking for this! If there was anything like the “new scale is TSFS transwarp”, there may be something about the nacelles or the core itself that prevents it from then on, but they all deal with it because the extra travel speed is more immediately useful all over space. Plus there’s other ways to time travel
"The lords of time"? What, are they based on Gallifrey or something?
Idea: maybe the writers chose the 22nd century to be a front in the temporal war, because of the time pod and the Tox Utat (However that is spelled) were sent to that century.
whether these were instances related to that, is a totally different story. But that is the beauty with time travel. Visitors from the future would be extra careful not to mention too much about their time anyways.
The time traveler encountered by the 22nd-century New Jerseyan was alien, resolving a lot of the problems.
The star trek novel for the department of temporal investigation say the reason why everyone loves the 22nd century. In the distant future temporal inhibitor prevent all changed to the timeline and its like beacons thats littered throughout known space. This is why all factions like the 22 nd century because it was before all that. Bad writing but interesting.
How would the time burue know if the timeline had been altered if they are part of that timeline that (potentially) might have been altered?
It takes a while for the affects of the past to affect the future. Doesn't really make much sense but that's what they said.
Does anyone know if the show keeps track of the made up speech used are do they make it up on the spot? Has anyone tried to catalog it and look into how and when the speech is used in same cases? dose Star Fleet have reeducation center and are they the same as what we today know them as? There has been small notes to it in the show but i got the idea it was jail/school.
....and you wanna know something that will blow ur mind? It was one of those guys who drove the truck that killed Edith Keeler thereby forcing Americans to fight in the 1900s. Jk great vid Lore
Edit: so there's so much I'd like to rebut on but I'll not show my nerd ATM. But I will comment that there several instances in canon where sect31 can be inferred to have had a hand in. Ok no more comments 😂
Imagine if United earth found frozen tribles at the north Pole instead of borg drones. That would have pretty much been game over for humanity.
Relying on every individual using time travel for research purposes only ....is like relying on every car driver on the roads to drive perfectly.
17:30 the guy had the right idea travel through time and space but the criminal route was his mistake
Doctor Who exploration would have been my path.
But why didn't they use time travel to stop the Dominion War? Lol
Because they were to evolve to stop the Dominion War. Principles and whatnot.
Because the Dominion War was part of their history and some of their time travel equipment is based on the technical advances after the Dominion War. In short, neither their society or technology might exist without the Doominion War.
15:33; please tell me I'm not the only one that hears him as Kermit the frog
8:17 Netflix. Jagdtiger in the picture.
I now found out that the (epic) motion picture First Contact created the Enterprise and Discovery timeline so has altered the TOS and TNG timeline as well, so next to the prime, the kelvin and the mirror universe, enterprise and discovery are a separate timeline created when Jeanluc and crew saved Zefran Cochran
First contact didn’t change anything, no. Not in canon atleast. I also don’t particularly think the theory holds any weight
@@LoreReloaded well in one of the enterprise series episode, Archer explains that humans from the future rescued Cochran, the character even was in the episode. The fact that zefran has shared this info has already impacted the timeline.
COCHRAN WAS NEVER GOING TO HAVE THE NERVE TO FLY THAT SHIP WITHOUT JORDE PROPPING HIM UP AND IMPROVING THE SHIP FOR FLIGHT. THEY HAD TO BE THERE WITHOUT THE ENTERPRIZE AND BORG COCHRAN NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT THE GROUND
@@csi1392 an “it always happened” connoisseur I see
so cool
wish there was a BOOK SERIES based on the temp. cold war
Yes... of course... because time travel capabilities would be so implemented in a singular form like a space suit rather than the much more responsible, more versatile space craft.... yes.
18:00 Time not being linear where time travel is considered is an important factor.
Is this a reupload or did i inadvertently time travel to the future and watch this?
Edit: i read the comments
Maybe future guy didn't use a time pod because that would make it harder to obscure his identity.
Time travel is a headache.
Every future time travel organization in Star Trek could have been the same orgainzation. Every time they show up, they do so to act out the actions they knew they had. Everything they do is to ensure their present exists. They never interfered with Captain Kirk because this was part of their history. Daniels and others only showed up because they knew he had shown up.
Everything had to happen so their time exists.
There is a problem rarely adressed with time travel. You may be able to influence some events in the past, but depending how far back you go, you can't influence the hundreds, thousands or even billions of events that shape your present.
Classic scenario, go back in time and kill Hitler. Say you do it subtly, and secretly give his mother a contraceptive.
You go backto your time and discover that the USSR has taken over all of Europe and Asia and was about to invade the American as well as the African Continent.
In short, you can't guarantee a better future.
"Future Guy" could also be "just human" and concealing his identity/race, to assure his mission is a success.
Why would the Suliban trust a human... even one who told them to fight against other humans. So making sure they don't know that he's human, makes sure he can keep manipulating them.
He could be from a non-Starfleet and/or non-Section 31 faction of humans. Or maybe just working alone, like Braxton or Annorax.
This could limit his options to get "sufficient" technology. And even if not, him concealing his identity would still make sense.
The problem with police is that they do not believe that they should follow the laws they are sworn to enforce, believing that they cannot capture a criminal if they must obey the law. This is so common it has become a TV-trope where a Los Angeles city police officer will visit paris, France and throw his badge around as if all of France must kiss his ass because he is a cop. I saw that happen twice with Tucson City Police in Canada, insisting that they did not have to obey Canadian laws because they were American police. The RCMP disagreed and the Tucson City Police officers actually threatened the RCMP officers IN Canada!
Time police believe that they are authorized to operate in any nation, any planet and any time like the TPD officers believed that they City badge was valid in Canada.
Just a small comment. Polish mathematicians cracked Enigma code. Alan Turing broadened this to newer versions of Enigma ;) Does it mean that Poland is essentially a future for mankind? ;)
TELL GOVERNMENT THAT THERE SHOULD BE ANTI TIME TRAVEL ORGANISATION
1. Government boss Boris Johnson.
2. Government Address 10 downing Street London.
3. Write a letter to government saying that there should be Anti Time Travel Organisation, when time travel is invented.
4. Drive car to go to post office and put letter in post box.
"ultimately overtake him, put on the man or woman's clothes"
You... just said "him".
......ok
Rasmussen's vessel didn't come from the 22nd century. It came from the 26th century. Returning it to that century would be harmless since that is where it came from.
Depends on who finds it unprotected
I also believe he had it programmed to returned to his time.. that’s in the episode
Read once on an economics blog...this kind of time travel is possible, what's the equilibrium? People will keep going back and mucking around until time machines are never invented.
I think that makes the assumption that anyone that can travel back in time chooses to do so and then mucks around in a sort of infinite monkeys typing at infinite typewriters sort of way. Does humanity have free will enough to resist temptation or is it human nature to muck around?
Nice
That Hitler green screening looked almost Walking Dead bad.
Dude, you really need to play some Star Trek: Online, then you'd know "Future Guy"s name is Noye, you'd know who the Sphere Builders were, you'd have witnessed the signing of the Temporal Accords, and you'd know the main antagonists in the Time War are the Krenim, Na'kuhl, Vorgons, and Sphere Builders. You'd also know who's Time Ship they found in Enterprise, how it connected with Jean Luc's holiday on Risa, and how central Nog and Seven were to everything that happened. You'd even know who built the Guardian of Forever. They've actually done a remarkable job of tying up all the loose ends, and most of your questions have been answered. And yes it's absolutely canon, it's CBS authorized, and all characters (including Daniels, Nog, Seven, Chekov, Sela, Paris, Noye) are voiced by the original actors.
Star Trek Online isn't canon - which is why i didn't include it here. I've played some of these stories which is awesome though..
Could vosk and his group, with the changed timeline of the nazis invading the US, be the divergence where the mirror universe stuff splits from the normal timeline? To my knowledge the divergence point hasn't been identified, or shown.
Just a random thought that popped into my head while watching this.
I always liked the idea that the divergence point was the Enterpise E coming back.
That the Mirror Universe is what happened without the future effecting Cochran.
@@AtlantiansGaming I can agree with that logic.
Enterprise crew couldn't keep their yaps shut about mortality and tolerance, and talking about what happens in the future, it rubbed off and lead to peaceful relations with Vulcans and bigotry being bred out of humanity, and eventually the Federation.
Mirror Universe, is the borg never went back. So the enterprise never followed human greed and bigotry never got eliminated.
Sadly having story telling methods such as the ones used by Enterprise and Discovery are just bad. We see this from the fact that there are not good guys and bad guys. Hell the faction who Archer first fought with turned out to be allies. At the end of the day most audiences want good guys and bad guys. It makes for easier to follow story telling, even if you root for the villains you need to know who they are. Or you get what we have Enterprise and Discovery and despite some liking these shows. Most don't for these reasons.
To be honest that’s the reason I really don’t care for wrestling any longer. They don’t have good guys vs bad guys. Everyone is gray. From week to week they change. It’s really a shame.
I think screenwriters should build multiple timelines into their story and character arcs, just in case. At least I would if I were a writer.
Blame Postmodernism and SJWs. They want to destroy any previously established stereotypes/art, or want super Realism.
Postmodernism views things like Damsels in Distress as in need of annihilation (because it's old), while SJWs see it as misogynist.
The 26th century Time ship Rasmussen has seems like it could have been a one-off, I say this with respect to the continuity....Rasmussen indicates he took the ship from the original pilot, it seems far fetched that an officially sanctioned research (Temporal) ship would be handled so carelessly...and temporal tech has existed in Trek all the way back to TOS, its possible some individual in the 26th Century rediscovered Time Travel independently and "got stupid" with it.
As for the aforementioned 27th century, it's never specifically stated to my knowledge that Time travel was easily managed...it could have been a last resort to protect the technology being sent back, taking a herculean effort to do so.
As for the Birg Tech in Enterprise, it's already established that Borg return for their technology, its possible when they left earth they took most if not all of their "leftovers" with them, leaving Starfleet with little or nothing of value to analyze.
With respect to continuity I feel like this makes the most sense...although in Voyager I was always bothered with how "The year of Hell" ended....speaking of time travel.
I think I just figured out who the sphere builders were but I forget the name so I’ll go with what they did
-- it was back when Insane Way, Janeway got mistaken as a ally to the borg by a group of aliens that were being attacked by the borg. if they found out then about Starfleet but couldn’t destroy it so they decided to use time travel to stop Starfleet from ever occurring and thus no ally with the borg
........ obviously they were wrong in their assumptions blah blah blah but that’s another post
I hate to be so cynical but there’s another explanation for why section 31 “let” The Dominion war happen. Quite simply they wanted it to happen, I thought the Federation had started to get too soft and week and Starfleet had forgotten how to war. So they made sure the war happened they made sure that it was almost lost but they also made sure the Federation won.
Thank goodness they admitted Discovery isn't Prime.
Idk what the wrench does but TYVM top of the morning
Makes you a moderator. I usually give it to regulars
Always remember that the Star Trek universe doesn't consist of continuity
Star fleet was to open about time travel witch did case the world to end in logans run , Others can never be sure if the world is are was made that way so in order to know the future of there own doing war is needed , Along with who dies who lives endless fighting on how it used. This is why they say in the future they did say they give up time travel.
What a future guy was a human from the federation the Starfleet officer that went rogue and that's the best he could do on his own maybe he stole the shuttle or something a 28 century shuttle and maybe he was able to steal some other stuff and that's the best it can do
Daniels should show up on Discovery since he might still be alive in the 32nd century. And if the writers were smart enough(yes, I kmow) they'd use the Temporal Wars to explain the discrepancies between Discovery's 23rd century and the Prime Timeline as we once knew it. It just makes sense that all that time travel and interference would end up corrupting the timeline
The WWII episodes are of course very ....................... Yeah, but i like idk why
Have to accept that Discovery is now canon.....Have to accept.....Soooooo Hard! I can do it! 😎
Just kidding around 😊
Excape?
32nd century and he still needs GLASSES? WTF?
You should watch the series. It’d help not have these cringe comments :p
@@LoreReloaded WTF? Cringe? I asked a totally VALID question! WHY would any1 with faulty vision need glasses with highly advanced medical science? Hell, specs are already a thing of the past with eye surgery, that can correct MOST vision problems?
As to watch, I wish, but I can't afford to!
@@DMSProduktions so basically they ask him in the episode why don’t you get your eyes fixed, he says he likes the glasses anyway so why bother. It’s basically another variant of “but I’m allergic to retinax”; albeit with more agency I guess. He simply prefers how he looks with glasses.
And tbh I can relate, I’ve often thought about getting laser eye surgery but then getting zero-prescription frames. But since I’m wearing glasses anyway to see right now I’m using my money on other stuff. (Not that he has to worry about money. Presumably.)
I suspect you got that response because it’s become common for “Discovery is cancelled this time” people to bring it up as proof of stupidity or whatever. Given the show addresses it in his first appearance, it’s seemingly rarely in good faith. Although I personally might not have come to that conclusion without other contextual clues like complaining about an agenda or whatever.
So, if you look at your notifications, I hope this helped I guess ?
@@kaitlyn__L Not really. I hadn't seen all of it up to that point, or did NOT take notice of the explantion! Either way, IF I could get new eyes and not need glasses, I'd TAKE them! The bridge of my nose is worn down to the bone!
Mispronounced the name Celic right after Agent Daniels just said it as, Cil-ik? 😜
Its an shame enterprise didnt use the temporal library daniel gave
Sam Bekett?
Except hes the hologram this time around....lol.
The original intent for "Future Guy" was for him to be Archer...if Enterprise would have run another season...
Temporal Prime Directive should have been mentioned, its the clear reason for the stagnation of time travel in the 24th century.
Earth first!
My man💪🤛
👍🏾
...To be fair, through much of WW2, the US was decidedly neutral, with a lot of isolationists sympathizing with the axis powers. Also - again, *to be fair* ... _it's not like Germany were the only ones committing genocide._
how much Hentai has also been justified by SCIENCE.
YES
@@joeclaridy Kirk is HENTAI SCIENTIST!
Why take lower tch into the past? You do not want the past to have modern tech that could be duplicated and used against you. So always take lesser tech that is better than the past but lesser than your own, and tech that is 'dead-end' so if it is captured and studied, it would not allow the past to recreate advanced tech.
Like the Deuterium Atom bomb of Germany was a dead-end tech that showed promise, but would never become an actual atomic bomb no matter what they tried.
He’s not expanding because of prohibition due to the cold war