Great vid! Im impressed! I dont impress easily. Good Job! Alaska bushman here. 38 years. 25 working w F&G. Spray is USELESS in a real attack. Only makes em madder. Most attacks happen in 2-3 seconds from sighting til contact. In the eye, or slightly below the eye, up the nose or under the ear. Ive been attacked 5 times in my 38 years out here, only 2 at distance. The knee trick works ESPECIALLY shooting up/ down hill. The 45/70 lever actions w hot/ heavy WFNHC is THE bushmans choice for the primary rifle. Opinions vary for the big bore backups & the semi auto 10mm w hot heavy bear loads is really taking over up here. Light, fast, easy to handle & the ergonomics makes " sence shooting" easy because you WONT have time to use the sights. Practical & smart advise is to cycle your shells through your gun several times to insure reliable feed. ( ESPECIALLY with handloads) I just switched from a 454 Casull backup to the 10mm. Semi auto. 220 grain WFNHC Underwoods. Put 4 into a 5 inch circle from draw to 4th round @ 15 yards in just a tad over 1 second. ( side leg holster) Bears brain size. ONLY sure stopper is a brain shot. Center mass at a distance maybe. 1st attack started at 150 yards, small grizzly, 375 H&H mag. 4X scope. Damn scope almost got me killed. Bear moved so fast up the hill by the time i found him in the scope he was just a big brown blurr @ 10 ft away. 3 mistakes. Bolt action, scoped, spitzer bullet. ( 300 grain Barnes X) Blew a hole clean thrrough him, overshot, hit the spine right behind the head taking out 3 vertebrae COMPLEATLY severing the spine & the perfectly expanded slug blew out into the tundra just before his boy part. Gutpack was totally jelloed. Impact flipped the bear over backwards, it ran 150 yards down the hill & hit a small lake & swam halfway across it before dying. F&G said it was sheer adrenalin & muscle memory & i was lucky it went away from me. Sold that useless 375 & got my 1st marlin w extended magazine. No commercial bear loads back then but MY loads were 420 grain WFNHC @ 2100 FPS. Almost 458 loads. NEEDS a high recoil kickpad or it will break something. Shoulder, collarbone, ect. Next summer a 10 ft blackie stood up @ 200 yards across the open Tundra, let out the death roar & charged. Hit him square in the sternam @ 100 yards. Dropped him on his face & he slid facefirst for 40 feet. DEAD! 1 Shot. I knew that swamp & he had to raise his head to jump the stream & i fired just before he jumped. Impact center mass was perfect. Found that slug just under the fur, rear flank. TOTAL energy transfer INTO the bear. Slug was Intact except for the rifling marks. Internal damage not as bad as the Barns X but heart/ lungs & gutpack was blast damaged enough. 3rd/ 4th attack was at my bearstand. One in my face & shoved the bbl of the 44 redhawk into its chest & fired blowing her heart out through her spine as her teeth were closing on my face. Lil blackie, only 5 footer, dead when she hit the ground. Had snuck up behind me & came up the ladder so fast i felt the tremor, grabbed the gun in my lap & she was there! 4th attack similar bear but i saw him coming from behind & swung the 45/70 around behind me & face shot em at inches away. 5th attack was a total surprise encounter. Small grizzly popped up from the ridge 10 feet away. I was running out with my wifes 243 to shoot a duck. ( i thought) was the bear crossing the stream that made the pressure walls on the creek below our cabin. NOT A DUCK! Had the rifle by the middle. Surprised us both. Bear stood up, roared & lunged. My dog came out of nowhere jumping on the bears face biting his nose giving me enough time to grab the trigger, shove the muzzle into his chest and fire point blank. 85 grain blitz round went through the front rib & blew up in the bears heart, ALL the exaust gasses went INTO the bear dropping him on the spot. His momentium knocked me backwards over a tussoc & i jacked another round into the chamber flying over it, landed on my feet upright ready for an eye shot but the bear never got up. Struggled a bit trying to get back up & Died in a few seconds. Could almost see my guardian angel holding him down til he passed. Had the rifles muzzle on his eye just in case but saved the skull from exploding. Got it mounted over our cabins front door. Our dogs are our early warning system & i hardly ever go out w/o one with me. Cant fool their sences. Ive had 1000s of encounters out here. Only 5 went bad. 3 in one summer alone. Decades up in the bearstand. Generations of grizzlies came year after year. 1 sow slept under the stand with her 3 cubs. Needless to say i didnt come down that night. Thoes grizzlies were so used to us they just accepted us as part of their world. Except for the 2 attacks non were ever hostile. Came through our yard many times & even the dogs ignored the regulars. Told us all about any new bears around or ANY blackie which we shot on sight. THEY, being natural maneaters, were always considered dangerous.
Your positive comment means a lot to me! Thank you for sharing all your experiences! 😀 You said that black bears are naturally maneaters, I've not heard this before. Why are they so much more prone to predating humans than the brown bears? You also said using a spitzer bullet was a mistake, why are spitzer bullets like the Barnes-X bad?
@@infogunvault6920 , Spitzers travel too deep before opening up & then just blow through & dump most of their knockdown energy into the dirt behind the bear. I should have been using a big soft roundnose that flattens out fast & dumps ALL of its energy INTO the bear. DNA in blackies is closer to Polars than Grizzlies are, and theyre usually ambush hunters who hit from behind, bite the skull or spine to paralize & then eat you alive. They hardly ever bluff. Their attacks are ALWAYS predatory & once theyre as big or bigger than you standing up your considered fair game. Grizzlys USUALLY only want to remove you as a threat but circumstances can change in a blink. Starving, wounded, old or very young & stupid are the most dangerous. But, as always, bears ARE unpredictable. Their rages turn on/off in a blink. NEVER look em straight in the eye, that's a direct challenge & it triggers them. Look at the end of their nose & " notice" their eyes. They know the difference. If in doubt, SHOOT EM IN THE FACE! NEVER, EVER GO UNARMED IN BEAR COUNTRY. At least a handgun on you at ALL times. And know bear skull anatomy. Their brain is level & below their eyes. Everything above the eyes is only jaw muscles & a shot there will.only piss them off more. Up the nose, in the eye or below the ear is a definate brain shot & ONLY instant OFF switch. Bears skulls are NOT bulletproof. Just as thin as ours are. Friend at F&G only carried a 40 cal semi auto his entire carrier. Face shot several bears up close. Retired unscathed. Here in Alaska the 10mm is taking over huge. Lite, fast handeling, easy to shoot with massive firepower. Great for head on, close up encounters. Can shoot them one handed too if the bear has the other arm. With hot/ heavy bear loads has the penetration of a 41 magnum. Wont have time to sight, just point shoot & dump a lot into its head. I know from experience when ones scared the adrenalin dumps fast & your strength & speed jump accordingly. Hope this helps.
@@tristantimothy1004 Very interesting. You said you use a .45-70 with hard cast lead bullets now, (obviously for the penetration.) How many inches/feet of bear does a bullet have to be able to travel though before you'd say it's capable of good bear defense? I ask this because I know of a another youtuber "Brobee223" who had trouble with 12 gauge winchester super-x slugs just falling short of penetrating an attacking bear's vitals.
@@infogunvault6920 , Interesting question, so many variables. Size of bear, distance, species, kind of an attack. ( Territory, predatory or cub defense, wounded or healthy, starving or not.) Im not familiar w the slug your friend used but its obviously not hot enough..In my bearstand we use everything from 243 to 45/70. Most common was a 300 win mag. I used several rifles over the years. Started with the 375 H&H but it failed to STOP the bear. Switched to the 45/70. Finally switched to the 243 w 90 grain FMJ but only to shoot the calm feeding bears w a clean heart shot. Saved the meat but did the job. They rarely ran more than 25 feet once hit. Some didnt run at all, just flinched & kept eating til they fell down a bit later. Like theyed been mosquito bit. The standard shotgun slug up here is the Brennikie hard casts. Lotta thump that STAYS in the bear while traveling deep enough to destroy the innards. Even if hitting bone first. Theres lots of specialized bear bullets. Solids in many forms. Steel, copper, bronze. Lots of bushmen run a magnum duck load in the tube & all slugs behind it. The bb pellets will take a bears face off & destroy its nose which neutralizes the bears brain & then pumps a slug through its heart for the final kill. If the bears further out its easy to eject the duck load & slug em coming in. Im thinking maybe your friends shotgun shell had a squib or wet load diminishing its power. Shotgun shells are notiorious for going bad from rain or high humidity. They should be both primer & top sealed to keep out ALL moisture of any sort. Thats a job left for pros. Wrong top seal & you blow up the shotgun. Some natives & bushmen have been bear disarmed and saved their lives by grabbing the bears head & biting off its nose. Or at least wounding the bears nose badly enough to make it run off. If i only had a knife id go for the eye trying to hit the brain but me NOT being double armed with both a lever rifle & a backup handgun isnt likely. I didnt get old by being unprepared. Cant go into a possible combat zone unprepared. Sam
@@infogunvault6920 one more note. Winchester ammo is not especially noted for great performance. Good practice/ plinking ammo but id never trust it for possible life/ death. Ammo is like buying a motorcycle helmet. Whats your life worth? When in the field, carry the best. Costs a bit more but a LOT cheaper than getting mauled. Learned that lesson with cheap Lightning ammo. Wolf pack almost got me because of that garbage. But thats another story in the school of hard knocks.
You should have many more subscribers considering the work involved in providing detailed information like this. So many factors are involved that those quick pat answers to best bear defense caliber/bullet are misleading at best.
This is a lot more informative than most videos on the issue. Sometimes, I watch some of these videos with frustration because they give out advice that will likely lead to people getting mauled or killed. Most of the videos give people the wrong idea about bears. I think they are just as harmful & misinformative as movies & tv shows are with their depictions as far as bear behavior is concerned. A bear will not stand up on it's back legs & roar at you for 30 seconds before it attacks you. 🤨
Silvio. Your RIGHT! Most of these vids are B.S. & putting out false, dangerous info. ESPECIALLY the bearspray parts. That crap is USELESS. NEVER have time to use both in a real attack. If one has to shoot, SHOOT! Right about the " death roar" too. From stand up to roar to lunge is 2-3 seconds at best. My 1st attack the grizzly didnt even stand up. Saw me from 150 yards, roared & rocketed up the hill like a missle. Hed been wounded by a moose, face kicked, front teeth knocked out & jaw broken. Skinny & desperate. My 1st summer in bush Alaska. Real eye opener. I was dumber than a rock but learned fast. Bushmen dont get old being stupid. Im 73, 5 attacks. Thoes bears are all dead & im not. Exciting life out here if your head isnt up you know where.
Excellent video, I think I started commenting earlier and got distracted. Hardcast ftw! Have you ever seen hardcast buckshot btw? My issue with buckshot, is, like you said with foster slugs, it is entirely too soft. Watching Paul Harrell videos shows it won't even hardly go through a car door. There was a fellow who made dangerous game slugs and some another cartridge that was something to the effect of 3 large hardcast balls. Anyway, this guy hasn't really been active in 10 years so Brenneke is the way to go unless you like to make your own. Well, as far as shotguns anyway. Sure would like a rifle with a big fat meplat that autoloads.
As far as I know there is no commercially LOADED available hardcast lead buckshot. There is a company (war wolf I believe) that actually uses steel ball bearings, but I think they are too light. Website "Rob's bullets" actually sells the 000 hardcast but you have to load it yourself. I should also mention there is a different website that sells 00 tungsten buckshot. .458 socom or .450 bushmaster rifles would definitely leave a good sized hole, with the proper ammo.
@@infogunvault6920 what are your thoughts on proper big 5 cartridges? I think the 375hh is wonderful, but it needs a flat nose, not a spitzer. beyond that, bigger is better, and so is capacity. I've been searching for either a mccann rifle in 458 winmag, I saw an svt40 properly and eloquently bubbaed in 458 winmag (which only went for 700 usd, but I didn't notice it until 3 or 4 years later), and I'd like a tigr 9. Right now I'm settling for trying to find a garand barrel in 9.3 brenneke, and trying that insane conversion. should give me 7 rounds of 9.3 on tap, and a few enblocs should leave me in a pretty good place. I wholeheartedly agree with you that capacity is important, and an automatic has less chance of failure than a manually operated repeater. Right now my go to is either a saiga 12 clone or a 44 magnum gas operated rifle. Neither inspires confidence.
@@Agouti23 First of all I'm working on a " guns for bear defense" video where I'll go into more depth. Second of all, I see why people would want to use african dangerous game calibers (such as .375 H&H) for bear defense, but I think it's not the best solution. If you have a .375 H&h (or any caliber) with a flat nose bullet it'll make a hole roughly the same diameter as the meplat (according to kevin robertson of the perfect shot). Not a lot of room for error, but you have enough penetration to go through more than one cape buffalo (depending on angle of the shot bullet weight etc...) You could achieve essentially the same thing (deep penetration with flat nose) with something like .458 SOCCOM. I see the advantage .375 H&H( or other very powerful rounds) over other calibers as being the increased wound size when using expanding bullets. Of all the things you mentioned I would prefer the Saiga clone to bet my life on. This of course depends on two things: the confidence in the Saiga being reliable and the use of hard cast lead buckshot. Buckshot holds the advantage over dangerous game rifles of any caliber because it increases the margin for error quite a bit, extremely helpful if you are trying to make a brainshot on a charging bear.
This conversation isn't about killing a bear. It's about using firearms as a way of stopping a bear attack to minimize or prevent injury. Shooting a grizz in the ribs with a 22 is going to get you most likely gored before the bear dies.
Good coverage.. I'll be clear on what I'm perfectly happy carrying and are absolutely devastating... Handgun: 10mm Glock 20 with Underwood Xtreme or Buffalo bore.. I'll take that any day before a .44 Mag.. Casul.. and especially a .500 Mag... I own all 3 and many other magnum revolvers.. There is a reason why most outfitters in Alaska carry 10mm now days... IF I were in brownie territory, if I were not the actual hunter, I'd take my Benelli M4 or Modified Remington 1100 ANY DAY day before a "deer rifle"... A shotgun properly loaded with buckshot, slug, buckshot, slug, buckshot etc... There's no kodiak or polar bear on this planet that I couldn't drop... I'd be perfectly fine if the only thing I had was my G20 or G40 and a few magazines and no long gun... The amount of hate I could unload on any bear with either of those pistols... IF I can't drop it with 16, well, fair is fair... I'm dinner... Bottom line, just as you've stated.. I will NEVER go into bear territory without my G20 on a Alaskan / Kenai chest holster... (Fastest draw for me in a split second) And, unlike one of the few outfitters who were mauled to death because they didn't have their sidearm on them, I will never go..
Yeah, fine. AS LONG AS YOU CONSIDER that after more than a hundred years of worldwide experience with firearms used to kill large and dangerous animals, professional hunters and guides have tightly held to the theory that penetration is THE most important factor in dealing with such animals. ALL that hard won experience is surely useful in making a firearm choice; that's why I consider penetration effectiveness first when deciding on a cartridge that could be used on a bear.
Yes. I frequently mentioned the penetration of different rounds so people can make an informed decision. I'm curious, what ammunition/weapon combination do you think is best for bear defense?
@@infogunvault6920 I agree with many people today in thinking that a 10mm with 15 rd mag, loaded with hard cast or similar makes for a solid emergency bear defense handgun. I'm less enthusiastic about shotguns in almost any configuration. In a theoretical test, where I had to face a big charging bear, I'd choose an AR-10 type 308 (with close quarters sights), with 15-20 rounds, shooting the heaviest Barnes bullets (or similar) possible. A 338 win mag or better bolt gun SHOULD be an ideal, but a miss or two (or bad hit), and you might come up short. Overall, in the modern day, it's hard to disagree that with more rounds (and your head screwed on straight) there's the best chance to connect with a brain or neck spine shot, which will end the encounter 100% of the time. The military has come to the solid conclusion that the side with the most ammo wins.
@@infogunvault6920 Almost every reason: short-stroking is INCREDIBLY common in tense situations with pump guns. And, while slugs have much greater penetration than buckshot or birdshot they're still a HUGE piece of lead to try to push through a great distance in a big, tough, thick animal. I'm sure they would do OK, but they don't offer me an advantage that I feel is "off the charts." If I'm going to depend on a long gun for that job I'd want "super" penetration (like a big bolt gun), or "super" fire-power (like 15+ rounds at semi-auto speed). I don't get either of those big advantages with a shotgun. Maybe it's just a personal prejudice, but I just don't put together "shotgun" and "big dangerous game" in my head, lol.
That is a good question. Bear attacks are relatively rare, and it's rare for someone to carry a .32 acp. People also generally believe (rightfully so) that a bear that is angry, will get more angry when you start to hurt it with relatively weak rounds. When you get to calibers like .22 and .32, they are powerful enough to potentially kill a bear. But they are weak enough that I would not want to bet my life on them. I would compare it to a .22 handgun, some people have found that it can take a lot .22 rounds to have any effectiveness on a bear (provided you can't get a brain shot) and by then many people have been badly mauled. That said, I seem to remember a case where an tiger or lion escaped from a zoo and was killed with a .32. Multiple rounds (at least one reload) were needed to kill it.
The .32-20 Winchester is also somewhat comparable to the .32 acp, being a bit more powerful. The .32-20 was used by Elmer Keith to take deer and an elk. “I'd better put the .32-20 in the bedroll and pack the old .45. However, I did kill three mule deer and a coyote that summer with the .32-20, and the next year I killed a cow elk with it.” Source: “Hell, I was there!” Elmer Keith
@@derekbootle8316 I've been doing research on historical hunting stories, I'll keep an eye out for other stories of calibers that would be ballistically similar to .32 ACP. Hopefully someone used one to stop a bear attack at some point. If you don't mind me asking... Do you actually intend to use a .32 for bear defense, or is this just a interesting question that you'd like to know the answer to?
Here is another point of reference, a hot loaded .32-20: “This particular pistol was a Ruger, large frame, old model .30 Carbine. I built the gun up using the original barrel and chambered another cylinder for .32-.20. The gun was very reliable and accurate. The load I used was 140 grain, hard cast, flat-point with a gas check, under a heavy charge of 296 powder. I will not publish the exact load with the Winchester powder, as I know it was over maximum, but the big Ruger handled it well.” “I slowly raised myself from a kneeling position, from behind a small bush to find the bear directly in front of me starting to turn broadside. He was less than 10 feet away! I don’t remember aiming the handgun, but I do know I pointed the pistol at the bear’s shoulder and let loose. I’ll never forget that moment, because as the bear fell, it was like he was struck by lightning. In that millisecond I thought, “WOW! What a pistol!” And just as fast as that happened, I was snapped right back to reality as the bear was on his feet again. As he rose to his feet, I managed to fire another aimed round into his chest. And then another into his back as he began running up the mountain. I was relieved in that moment that the bear did not turn on me; but at the same time, dismayed that he was running like he wasn’t hit at all. The bear ran up the mountain about 50 yards, then folded up and started to summer-sault back down towards me. In my experience, this is a bad situation to be in because, if the bear is only wounded, he tends to grab and maul the first thing he can get ahold of. I trained the pistol on him as he tumbled and when he stopped I fired another round into him. He didn’t move. As I settled down and pulled myself together, I thought I would go get the truck and see if I could load the bear onto it. My job entitled me to shoot any bear that was causing livestock problems, but I was mandated to turn it over to the Colorado Division of Wildlife. I never did find out what the live weight was on this bear, but I could not load him by myself. It took me, my supervisor and the rancher’s son to load him the next day. They took the bear into the Pueblo District Wildlife Office for examination. I was told that two of the four bullets exited the far shoulder and one of the bullets destroyed his heart.” Source: “.32-20 - HighCountyControlcom”
Low rate of fire is BAD. Bolt guns and big wheel guns will do the job, but only if you make the rounds count and you have time to shoot. The big problem is that you may not have time for more than one or two rounds with a bolt gun or a big wheel gun. Getting jumped at close range is your worst case scenario. Assuming adequate power per shot, the ability to go "Rat-Tat-Tat-Tat-Tat-Tat" with adequate power is more important than low rate of fire but more than enough power. One round every couple of seconds is not good enough. Loaded hot and sturdy, 10mm and 308 are my choices for hunting solo on Kodiak.
@@infogunvault6920 low recoil light easy to use simple in design penetration is better than 223 it will go through a car battery both ways or 10inches of live tree, and has other bullet options now also
Great vid! Im impressed! I dont impress easily. Good Job! Alaska bushman here. 38 years. 25 working w F&G. Spray is USELESS in a real attack. Only makes em madder. Most attacks happen in 2-3 seconds from sighting til contact. In the eye, or slightly below the eye, up the nose or under the ear. Ive been attacked 5 times in my 38 years out here, only 2 at distance. The knee trick works ESPECIALLY shooting up/ down hill. The 45/70 lever actions w hot/ heavy WFNHC is THE bushmans choice for the primary rifle. Opinions vary for the big bore backups & the semi auto 10mm w hot heavy bear loads is really taking over up here. Light, fast, easy to handle & the ergonomics makes " sence shooting" easy because you WONT have time to use the sights. Practical & smart advise is to cycle your shells through your gun several times to insure reliable feed. ( ESPECIALLY with handloads) I just switched from a 454 Casull backup to the 10mm. Semi auto. 220 grain WFNHC Underwoods. Put 4 into a 5 inch circle from draw to 4th round @ 15 yards in just a tad over 1 second. ( side leg holster) Bears brain size. ONLY sure stopper is a brain shot. Center mass at a distance maybe. 1st attack started at 150 yards, small grizzly, 375 H&H mag. 4X scope. Damn scope almost got me killed. Bear moved so fast up the hill by the time i found him in the scope he was just a big brown blurr @ 10 ft away. 3 mistakes. Bolt action, scoped, spitzer bullet. ( 300 grain Barnes X) Blew a hole clean thrrough him, overshot, hit the spine right behind the head taking out 3 vertebrae COMPLEATLY severing the spine & the perfectly expanded slug blew out into the tundra just before his boy part. Gutpack was totally jelloed. Impact flipped the bear over backwards, it ran 150 yards down the hill & hit a small lake & swam halfway across it before dying. F&G said it was sheer adrenalin & muscle memory & i was lucky it went away from me. Sold that useless 375 & got my 1st marlin w extended magazine. No commercial bear loads back then but MY loads were 420 grain WFNHC @ 2100 FPS. Almost 458 loads. NEEDS a high recoil kickpad or it will break something. Shoulder, collarbone, ect. Next summer a 10 ft blackie stood up @ 200 yards across the open Tundra, let out the death roar & charged. Hit him square in the sternam @ 100 yards. Dropped him on his face & he slid facefirst for 40 feet. DEAD! 1 Shot. I knew that swamp & he had to raise his head to jump the stream & i fired just before he jumped. Impact center mass was perfect. Found that slug just under the fur, rear flank. TOTAL energy transfer INTO the bear. Slug was Intact except for the rifling marks. Internal damage not as bad as the Barns X but heart/ lungs & gutpack was blast damaged enough. 3rd/ 4th attack was at my bearstand. One in my face & shoved the bbl of the 44 redhawk into its chest & fired blowing her heart out through her spine as her teeth were closing on my face. Lil blackie, only 5 footer, dead when she hit the ground. Had snuck up behind me & came up the ladder so fast i felt the tremor, grabbed the gun in my lap & she was there! 4th attack similar bear but i saw him coming from behind & swung the 45/70 around behind me & face shot em at inches away. 5th attack was a total surprise encounter. Small grizzly popped up from the ridge 10 feet away. I was running out with my wifes 243 to shoot a duck. ( i thought) was the bear crossing the stream that made the pressure walls on the creek below our cabin. NOT A DUCK! Had the rifle by the middle. Surprised us both. Bear stood up, roared & lunged. My dog came out of nowhere jumping on the bears face biting his nose giving me enough time to grab the trigger, shove the muzzle into his chest and fire point blank. 85 grain blitz round went through the front rib & blew up in the bears heart, ALL the exaust gasses went INTO the bear dropping him on the spot. His momentium knocked me backwards over a tussoc & i jacked another round into the chamber flying over it, landed on my feet upright ready for an eye shot but the bear never got up. Struggled a bit trying to get back up & Died in a few seconds. Could almost see my guardian angel holding him down til he passed. Had the rifles muzzle on his eye just in case but saved the skull from exploding. Got it mounted over our cabins front door. Our dogs are our early warning system & i hardly ever go out w/o one with me. Cant fool their sences. Ive had 1000s of encounters out here. Only 5 went bad. 3 in one summer alone. Decades up in the bearstand. Generations of grizzlies came year after year. 1 sow slept under the stand with her 3 cubs. Needless to say i didnt come down that night. Thoes grizzlies were so used to us they just accepted us as part of their world. Except for the 2 attacks non were ever hostile. Came through our yard many times & even the dogs ignored the regulars. Told us all about any new bears around or ANY blackie which we shot on sight. THEY, being natural maneaters, were always considered dangerous.
Your positive comment means a lot to me! Thank you for sharing all your experiences! 😀
You said that black bears are naturally maneaters, I've not heard this before. Why are they so much more prone to predating humans than the brown bears?
You also said using a spitzer bullet was a mistake, why are spitzer bullets like the Barnes-X bad?
@@infogunvault6920 , Spitzers travel too deep before opening up & then just blow through & dump most of their knockdown energy into the dirt behind the bear. I should have been using a big soft roundnose that flattens out fast & dumps ALL of its energy INTO the bear. DNA in blackies is closer to Polars than Grizzlies are, and theyre usually ambush hunters who hit from behind, bite the skull or spine to paralize & then eat you alive. They hardly ever bluff. Their attacks are ALWAYS predatory & once theyre as big or bigger than you standing up your considered fair game. Grizzlys USUALLY only want to remove you as a threat but circumstances can change in a blink. Starving, wounded, old or very young & stupid are the most dangerous. But, as always, bears ARE unpredictable. Their rages turn on/off in a blink. NEVER look em straight in the eye, that's a direct challenge & it triggers them. Look at the end of their nose & " notice" their eyes. They know the difference. If in doubt, SHOOT EM IN THE FACE! NEVER, EVER GO UNARMED IN BEAR COUNTRY. At least a handgun on you at ALL times. And know bear skull anatomy. Their brain is level & below their eyes. Everything above the eyes is only jaw muscles & a shot there will.only piss them off more. Up the nose, in the eye or below the ear is a definate brain shot & ONLY instant OFF switch. Bears skulls are NOT bulletproof. Just as thin as ours are. Friend at F&G only carried a 40 cal semi auto his entire carrier. Face shot several bears up close. Retired unscathed. Here in Alaska the 10mm is taking over huge. Lite, fast handeling, easy to shoot with massive firepower. Great for head on, close up encounters. Can shoot them one handed too if the bear has the other arm. With hot/ heavy bear loads has the penetration of a 41 magnum. Wont have time to sight, just point shoot & dump a lot into its head. I know from experience when ones scared the adrenalin dumps fast & your strength & speed jump accordingly. Hope this helps.
@@tristantimothy1004 Very interesting. You said you use a .45-70 with hard cast lead bullets now, (obviously for the penetration.) How many inches/feet of bear does a bullet have to be able to travel though before you'd say it's capable of good bear defense?
I ask this because I know of a another youtuber "Brobee223" who had trouble with 12 gauge winchester super-x slugs just falling short of penetrating an attacking bear's vitals.
@@infogunvault6920 , Interesting question, so many variables. Size of bear, distance, species, kind of an attack. ( Territory, predatory or cub defense, wounded or healthy, starving or not.) Im not familiar w the slug your friend used but its obviously not hot enough..In my bearstand we use everything from 243 to 45/70. Most common was a 300 win mag. I used several rifles over the years. Started with the 375 H&H but it failed to STOP the bear. Switched to the 45/70. Finally switched to the 243 w 90 grain FMJ but only to shoot the calm feeding bears w a clean heart shot. Saved the meat but did the job. They rarely ran more than 25 feet once hit. Some didnt run at all, just flinched & kept eating til they fell down a bit later. Like theyed been mosquito bit. The standard shotgun slug up here is the Brennikie hard casts. Lotta thump that STAYS in the bear while traveling deep enough to destroy the innards. Even if hitting bone first. Theres lots of specialized bear bullets. Solids in many forms. Steel, copper, bronze. Lots of bushmen run a magnum duck load in the tube & all slugs behind it. The bb pellets will take a bears face off & destroy its nose which neutralizes the bears brain & then pumps a slug through its heart for the final kill. If the bears further out its easy to eject the duck load & slug em coming in. Im thinking maybe your friends shotgun shell had a squib or wet load diminishing its power. Shotgun shells are notiorious for going bad from rain or high humidity. They should be both primer & top sealed to keep out ALL moisture of any sort. Thats a job left for pros. Wrong top seal & you blow up the shotgun. Some natives & bushmen have been bear disarmed and saved their lives by grabbing the bears head & biting off its nose. Or at least wounding the bears nose badly enough to make it run off. If i only had a knife id go for the eye trying to hit the brain but me NOT being double armed with both a lever rifle & a backup handgun isnt likely. I didnt get old by being unprepared. Cant go into a possible combat zone unprepared. Sam
@@infogunvault6920 one more note. Winchester ammo is not especially noted for great performance. Good practice/ plinking ammo but id never trust it for possible life/ death. Ammo is like buying a motorcycle helmet. Whats your life worth? When in the field, carry the best. Costs a bit more but a LOT cheaper than getting mauled. Learned that lesson with cheap Lightning ammo. Wolf pack almost got me because of that garbage. But thats another story in the school of hard knocks.
10mm is great for bear defense.
Excellent research. thanks
You're welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Thank u
You're welcome.
You should have many more subscribers considering the work involved in providing detailed information like this. So many factors are involved that those quick pat answers to best bear defense caliber/bullet are misleading at best.
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad people appreciate my videos!😁
This is a lot more informative than most videos on the issue. Sometimes, I watch some of these videos with frustration because they give out advice that will likely lead to people getting mauled or killed.
Most of the videos give people the wrong idea about bears. I think they are just as harmful & misinformative as movies & tv shows are with their depictions as far as bear behavior is concerned. A bear will not stand up on it's back legs & roar at you for 30 seconds before it attacks you. 🤨
Silvio. Your RIGHT! Most of these vids are B.S. & putting out false, dangerous info. ESPECIALLY the bearspray parts. That crap is USELESS. NEVER have time to use both in a real attack. If one has to shoot, SHOOT! Right about the " death roar" too. From stand up to roar to lunge is 2-3 seconds at best. My 1st attack the grizzly didnt even stand up. Saw me from 150 yards, roared & rocketed up the hill like a missle. Hed been wounded by a moose, face kicked, front teeth knocked out & jaw broken. Skinny & desperate. My 1st summer in bush Alaska. Real eye opener. I was dumber than a rock but learned fast. Bushmen dont get old being stupid. Im 73, 5 attacks. Thoes bears are all dead & im not. Exciting life out here if your head isnt up you know where.
Excellent video, I think I started commenting earlier and got distracted. Hardcast ftw! Have you ever seen hardcast buckshot btw? My issue with buckshot, is, like you said with foster slugs, it is entirely too soft. Watching Paul Harrell videos shows it won't even hardly go through a car door. There was a fellow who made dangerous game slugs and some another cartridge that was something to the effect of 3 large hardcast balls. Anyway, this guy hasn't really been active in 10 years so Brenneke is the way to go unless you like to make your own. Well, as far as shotguns anyway. Sure would like a rifle with a big fat meplat that autoloads.
As far as I know there is no commercially LOADED available hardcast lead buckshot. There is a company (war wolf I believe) that actually uses steel ball bearings, but I think they are too light.
Website "Rob's bullets" actually sells the 000 hardcast but you have to load it yourself.
I should also mention there is a different website that sells 00 tungsten buckshot.
.458 socom or .450 bushmaster rifles would definitely leave a good sized hole, with the proper ammo.
@@infogunvault6920 what are your thoughts on proper big 5 cartridges? I think the 375hh is wonderful, but it needs a flat nose, not a spitzer. beyond that, bigger is better, and so is capacity. I've been searching for either a mccann rifle in 458 winmag, I saw an svt40 properly and eloquently bubbaed in 458 winmag (which only went for 700 usd, but I didn't notice it until 3 or 4 years later), and I'd like a tigr 9. Right now I'm settling for trying to find a garand barrel in 9.3 brenneke, and trying that insane conversion. should give me 7 rounds of 9.3 on tap, and a few enblocs should leave me in a pretty good place.
I wholeheartedly agree with you that capacity is important, and an automatic has less chance of failure than a manually operated repeater. Right now my go to is either a saiga 12 clone or a 44 magnum gas operated rifle. Neither inspires confidence.
@@Agouti23 First of all I'm working on a " guns for bear defense" video where I'll go into more depth.
Second of all, I see why people would want to use african dangerous game calibers (such as .375 H&H) for bear defense, but I think it's not the best solution.
If you have a .375 H&h (or any caliber) with a flat nose bullet it'll make a hole roughly the same diameter as the meplat (according to kevin robertson of the perfect shot). Not a lot of room for error, but you have enough penetration to go through more than one cape buffalo (depending on angle of the shot bullet weight etc...)
You could achieve essentially the same thing (deep penetration with flat nose) with something like .458 SOCCOM.
I see the advantage .375 H&H( or other very powerful rounds) over other calibers as being the increased wound size when using expanding bullets.
Of all the things you mentioned I would prefer the Saiga clone to bet my life on. This of course depends on two things: the confidence in the Saiga being reliable and the use of hard cast lead buckshot.
Buckshot holds the advantage over dangerous game rifles of any caliber because it increases the margin for error quite a bit, extremely helpful if you are trying to make a brainshot on a charging bear.
This conversation isn't about killing a bear. It's about using firearms as a way of stopping a bear attack to minimize or prevent injury. Shooting a grizz in the ribs with a 22 is going to get you most likely gored before the bear dies.
You are trying to make it look like I hold a position that I clearly don't.
Mischaracterizing what I say helps no one.
Good coverage.. I'll be clear on what I'm perfectly happy carrying and are absolutely devastating... Handgun: 10mm Glock 20 with Underwood Xtreme or Buffalo bore.. I'll take that any day before a .44 Mag.. Casul.. and especially a .500 Mag... I own all 3 and many other magnum revolvers.. There is a reason why most outfitters in Alaska carry 10mm now days... IF I were in brownie territory, if I were not the actual hunter, I'd take my Benelli M4 or Modified Remington 1100 ANY DAY day before a "deer rifle"... A shotgun properly loaded with buckshot, slug, buckshot, slug, buckshot etc... There's no kodiak or polar bear on this planet that I couldn't drop... I'd be perfectly fine if the only thing I had was my G20 or G40 and a few magazines and no long gun... The amount of hate I could unload on any bear with either of those pistols... IF I can't drop it with 16, well, fair is fair... I'm dinner... Bottom line, just as you've stated.. I will NEVER go into bear territory without my G20 on a Alaskan / Kenai chest holster... (Fastest draw for me in a split second) And, unlike one of the few outfitters who were mauled to death because they didn't have their sidearm on them, I will never go..
My gun is a Glock 21 converted to a 460 Rowland. I will take that over anything
Yeah, fine. AS LONG AS YOU CONSIDER that after more than a hundred years of worldwide experience with firearms used to kill large and dangerous animals, professional hunters and guides have tightly held to the theory that penetration is THE most important factor in dealing with such animals. ALL that hard won experience is surely useful in making a firearm choice; that's why I consider penetration effectiveness first when deciding on a cartridge that could be used on a bear.
Yes. I frequently mentioned the penetration of different rounds so people can make an informed decision.
I'm curious, what ammunition/weapon combination do you think is best for bear defense?
@@infogunvault6920 I agree with many people today in thinking that a 10mm with 15 rd mag, loaded with hard cast or similar makes for a solid emergency bear defense handgun. I'm less enthusiastic about shotguns in almost any configuration. In a theoretical test, where I had to face a big charging bear, I'd choose an AR-10 type 308 (with close quarters sights), with 15-20 rounds, shooting the heaviest Barnes bullets (or similar) possible. A 338 win mag or better bolt gun SHOULD be an ideal, but a miss or two (or bad hit), and you might come up short. Overall, in the modern day, it's hard to disagree that with more rounds (and your head screwed on straight) there's the best chance to connect with a brain or neck spine shot, which will end the encounter 100% of the time. The military has come to the solid conclusion that the side with the most ammo wins.
@@GetMeThere1 Why are you "less enthusiastic" about a shotgun for bear defense? Is it the fairly limited capacity?
@@infogunvault6920 Almost every reason: short-stroking is INCREDIBLY common in tense situations with pump guns. And, while slugs have much greater penetration than buckshot or birdshot they're still a HUGE piece of lead to try to push through a great distance in a big, tough, thick animal. I'm sure they would do OK, but they don't offer me an advantage that I feel is "off the charts." If I'm going to depend on a long gun for that job I'd want "super" penetration (like a big bolt gun), or "super" fire-power (like 15+ rounds at semi-auto speed). I don't get either of those big advantages with a shotgun. Maybe it's just a personal prejudice, but I just don't put together "shotgun" and "big dangerous game" in my head, lol.
Is the reason no bears were killed by a .32acp because they aren't powerful enough, or because nobody carries them in the woods?
That is a good question. Bear attacks are relatively rare, and it's rare for someone to carry a .32 acp. People also generally believe (rightfully so) that a bear that is angry, will get more angry when you start to hurt it with relatively weak rounds.
When you get to calibers like .22 and .32, they are powerful enough to potentially kill a bear. But they are weak enough that I would not want to bet my life on them.
I would compare it to a .22 handgun, some people have found that it can take a lot .22 rounds to have any effectiveness on a bear (provided you can't get a brain shot) and by then many people have been badly mauled.
That said, I seem to remember a case where an tiger or lion escaped from a zoo and was killed with a .32. Multiple rounds (at least one reload) were needed to kill it.
The .32-20 Winchester is also somewhat comparable to the .32 acp, being a bit more powerful. The .32-20 was used by Elmer Keith to take deer and an elk.
“I'd better put the .32-20 in the bedroll and pack the old .45. However, I did kill three mule deer and a coyote that summer with the .32-20, and the next year I killed a cow elk with it.”
Source: “Hell, I was there!” Elmer Keith
@infogunvault6920 So the power level is at "possible". The problem is there's no data, and no way to test it.
@@derekbootle8316
I've been doing research on historical hunting stories, I'll keep an eye out for other stories of calibers that would be ballistically similar to .32 ACP. Hopefully someone used one to stop a bear attack at some point.
If you don't mind me asking... Do you actually intend to use a .32 for bear defense, or is this just a interesting question that you'd like to know the answer to?
Here is another point of reference, a hot loaded .32-20:
“This particular pistol was a Ruger, large frame, old model .30 Carbine. I built the gun up using the original barrel and chambered another cylinder for .32-.20. The gun was very reliable and accurate. The load I used was 140 grain, hard cast, flat-point with a gas check, under a heavy charge of 296 powder. I will not publish the exact load with the Winchester powder, as I know it was over maximum, but the big Ruger handled it well.”
“I slowly raised myself from a kneeling position, from behind a small bush to find the bear directly in front of me starting to turn broadside. He was less than 10 feet away! I don’t remember aiming the handgun, but I do know I pointed the pistol at the bear’s shoulder and let loose. I’ll never forget that moment, because as the bear fell, it was like he was struck by lightning. In that millisecond I thought, “WOW! What a pistol!” And just as fast as that happened, I was snapped right back to reality as the bear was on his feet again. As he rose to his feet, I managed to fire another aimed round into his chest. And then another into his back as he began running up the mountain. I was relieved in that moment that the bear did not turn on me; but at the same time, dismayed that he was running like he wasn’t hit at all.
The bear ran up the mountain about 50 yards, then folded up and started to summer-sault back down towards me. In my experience, this is a bad situation to be in because, if the bear is only wounded, he tends to grab and maul the first thing he can get ahold of. I trained the pistol on him as he tumbled and when he stopped I fired another round into him. He didn’t move.
As I settled down and pulled myself together, I thought I would go get the truck and see if I could load the bear onto it. My job entitled me to shoot any bear that was causing livestock problems, but I was mandated to turn it over to the Colorado Division of Wildlife. I never did find out what the live weight was on this bear, but I could not load him by myself. It took me, my supervisor and the rancher’s son to load him the next day. They took the bear into the Pueblo District Wildlife Office for examination. I was told that two of the four bullets exited the far shoulder and one of the bullets destroyed his heart.”
Source: “.32-20 - HighCountyControlcom”
Low rate of fire is BAD.
Bolt guns and big wheel guns will do the job, but only if you make the rounds count and you have time to shoot.
The big problem is that you may not have time for more than one or two rounds with a bolt gun or a big wheel gun. Getting jumped at close range is your worst case scenario.
Assuming adequate power per shot, the ability to go "Rat-Tat-Tat-Tat-Tat-Tat" with adequate power is more important than low rate of fire but more than enough power. One round every couple of seconds is not good enough.
Loaded hot and sturdy, 10mm and 308 are my choices for hunting solo on Kodiak.
Exactly. Would agree 100%.
Neat!
OMG, the predatory bear. Jesus! Help us. I did not know this!!!!!!! ugh!
M1 Carbine 30cal
Why an M1 carbine?
@@infogunvault6920 low recoil light easy to use simple in design penetration is better than 223 it will go through a car battery both ways or 10inches of live tree, and has other bullet options now also