Been dealing with Bullion now for about 2 years now and they have been nothing but absolute legends, down to earth, helpful bunch, and very competitive.
I’m more than happy to talk about the integrity of the person you just heard speak. Very honourable, genuine and humble man to deal with as well as the Bullion Now brand.
Michael helped me realize my true purpose as a Fondler. I have a need to fondle, and I shouldn’t be deprived of that. So I’m taking a bar out of assay lol
I wince when I hear silver stackers say, "I only buy, I have never sold any silver". I collected numismatically for years, never selling, until an emergency forced me to sell a small amount. That's when reality stepped forward. It changed "how and what" I so blindly purchased. You need to establish several avenues for selling your coins, bars and rounds. I would say, selling is far more important, than buying. Buying is easy. Selling what you have collected, may be impossible. Find out now, before your very existence depends on it.
This! Absolutely correct advice. I tell stackers in the accumulation phase to buy 10; sell 1 all the way up so that they know how to sell and what to expect. If you sell back to an LCS you will get crushed as you probably found out. Selling peer to peer is the way to go but has many more difficult nuances. That why you need to start practicing how to sell now. Also, numismatic coins are a total disaster trying to liquidate quickly as it is really really hard to get paid what they are "worth." The only thing that I have found reasonably easy to sell are American Silver Eagles, and Canadian Silver Maple Leafs--all bullion no fancy slab crap. Good luck to all.
Thank u 🙏🏻 sir. Just stared collecting gold. Been collecting silver seen I was a boy scout back in the sixties! I have books of Mercury head dimes, all silver quarters, half dollars and dollars and of course many silver coins. Some Morgan dollars 1891 and older.
How do I know it's real gold or silver and not fake? In this episode of our "How To Invest In Gold" series, Michael answers this frequently asked question. This video is perfect for beginners. Questions? Visit www.bullionnow.com.au to find our contact details, we'd be more than happy to help you.
well said in the video mate - that's why I love and trust buying from you guys!! Top service, quality brands and always good for a joke with the team!! Keep up the good work!!
Also, as an Afghan vet - appreciate the offer you guys had for the coins.... I wasn't able to make it last week for pick up but happy to buy them if they're still in stock... I'll mention it to Brett or Rubin next time I'm there
My local bullion dealer has had a number of fake "Pamp" bars brought in; mostly 1 troy ounce bars. XRF is only one method and is not foolproof. One can also test for electrical conductivity, weight, mass, density, etc. I always buy brand new bullion, not secondhand, for a reason; to prevent against fakes. I also buy from reputable Mint authorised resellers and reputable dealers, not eBay.
Excellent video, I drove from Adelaide to Melbourne just to check out the business before sending regular orders for delivery. I was not disappointed, very professionally run business and the lowest premiums I have found of any bullion dealers
Have to admit as someone who's just entering this it's scary! I'm ready to pay more to get it from the reputable online dealers than to go to a local shop. The economy is desperate and they're up to shady stuff out there. I'd be the perfect target.
Specific gravity , I don't think i would trust any other method . I dont know if an XRF would get something that was encased . Cutting in 1/2 or drilling would be too damaging .
My local bullion dealer has had a number of fake "Pamp" bars brought in; mostly troy ounce bars. XRF is only one method and is not foolproof. One can also test for electrical conductivity, weight, mass, density, etc. I always buy brand new bullion, not secondhand, for a reason; to prevent against fakes. I also buy from reputable Mint authorised resellers and reputable dealers, not eBay.
NOT ACCEPTABLE! XRF doesn't penetrate and couldn't catch plated tungsten. Furthermore, plated tungsten would also pass the density test. Fakes out of SE Asia now are using gold-plated tungsten to beat the XRF and density tests. You must combine with an ultrasound or conductivity test, and ideally both. All the serious dealers in Singapore do this, and central banks do as well. This is why I stopped buying bullion from dealers, because let's face it, they are salesmen who wouldn't pass college physics. Again: XRF, density, ultrasound, AND conductivity. 4 tests. Reputation doesn't mean anything, especially when these guys are buying from clients who could be passing plated tungsten. This is a very real problem, and I hate to think how much fake bullion is circulating out there. Choose a dealer who does the ultrasound test!
I agree with your comments for the most part. However I disagree with you regarding reputation. Hypothetically speaking, if you buy bullion (just humor me and choose), would you rather buy bullion from a reputable dealer who's been in the business for many years and has a BBB score of A+ with good feedback, or would you buy from a dealer that's new and hasn't been around long enough to garner enough feedback? I think the answer is obvious. Now going back to the original premise that an ultrasound test is a must...yes it would be ideal if the bullion dealer had an ultrasound testing machine. It's one more test that could be used to determine the validity of the metal. However there are many different ways to test precious metals, and as long as you test using several different metrics (which you have mentioned), it should be OK. A fake cannot pass all the different metrics of a valid precious metal. If a fake passes the weight test, it will fail somewhere else. If it passes a different metric, it will fail elsewhere. You can't have perfect fakes, unless it's an imitation of the original (but that is a different story for another time). For example, if I had a GVS Bullion tester (which I plan to buy one day), I would be perfectly happy accepting its results along with my Sigma Metalytics Pro Mini. There would be no need for me to obtain an ultrasound testing device, although it wouldn't hurt to get one either. To quote GVS: "A metal’s magnetism cannot be manipulated. Every metal reacts in its own way to a magnetic field. It is either attracted or repulsed. The manner and magnitude of this reaction depend entirely on the composition of the metal. Precious metals like gold are not magnetic and are only weakly repulsed by a magnetic field. Popular counterfeit materials (like e.g. tungsten, molybdenum, tantalum, hafnium, iridium, rhenium) on the other hand are attracted by magnets. The GVS Bullion Tester is a modern magnetic scale and measures the attraction or repulsion of the magnet contactlessly. All test objects remain in their packaging and suffer no decrease in value. Gilded objects and tungsten cores are identified immediately. Also, more objects can be tested simultaneously, like e.g. coins in a tube. The device is equally suited for large bullions. Results are available within seconds. The easy handling and quickly available results together with affordable acquisition costs position the GVS Bullion Tester above other destruction-free test methods. The GVS Bullion Tester is easily operated without previous knowledge. As a professional trader you want to make sure only originals are purchased and sold. Also non-trained employees can make risk-free decisions with this quick-test. If you as a buyer do not trust a certain trader the GVS Bullion Tester is the way to make sure." link: www.gvs-bullion.com/tester/tester_en.html So if you can determine a metal's magnetism with absolute certainty, an ultrasound testing device isn't mandatory. Fakes can't pass all the metrics. Granted, an ultrasound testing device from Amazon is probably way cheaper to buy than the GVS Bullion Tester. But that is a discussion for another day.
@@stormforge68 You are correct that you can use a combination of tests to confirm material purity. All I was trying to do is advocate for a combination of tests that together are impossible to thwart using anything gold-plated. But as you can see in this video, there are bullion dealers who have no clue what they're doing, even reputable ones like this channel, when it comes to testing. Any testing should always do weight, density, and XRF first. Latter to determine 9999. After density, you need to combine with a test that rules out the materials that have the same density and to rule out plating. As @ptaeiy mentioned, ultrasound is the gold standard because celerity (speed of sound in a metal) can't be faked AND it will confirm there are absolutely no purities inside the bar. Any plating or material interfaces will create a noticeable ping that does not match the dimensions of the bar. It is true that metal alloys are now being created by fakers in SE Asia that match the diamagnetism and density of gold within +/- 5%. This is why you MUST use ultrasound. I cannot emphasize enough, there are fakes out there now being sold to dealers in the secondary market who will use their XRF, magnetism, and density tests and think the bars are real. The guy in this video only relies on his XRF and is at huge risk of accepting fakes from customers looking to sell. Especially in another video he showed where he buys bars from a well-known customer. That customer could be buying real bars from Perth Mint obtained on the primary market, sourcing the gold for plating material, and selling back fakes.
@ptaeiy I agree that density + ultrasound as a duo are the best approach! Like you I just don't have the confidence with the Eddy currents and magnetic methods because of the wide tolerances with the instrumentation and target. With density and ultrasound, I go for +/- 3% tolerance on both which on those two together can rule out alloy, tungsten, anything not gold.
@ptaeiy You bring up good points, I grant you that. But at what size of precious metal does this become problematic? If I'm reading the GVS instruction & your comments correctly, to be at 2X range, the precious metal is so big that it wouldn't fit on the GVS machine. You wouldn't use the GVS testing method to begin with. IMHO, GVS would be used on kilo bars sized items and smaller. Anything larger, you'd have to use a different testing method like the UTM as you mentioned. If I won the lottery, this would be the UTM I would get in a heartbeat: www.olympus-ims.com/en/ut-flaw/epoch1000/ I can only dream!
@@andrewwald6504 Your last paragraph is interesting. Fakers in SE Asia can match the diamagnetism AND density to within +/-5%?!? Impressive and scary. Can you provide links regarding these fakes so I can do additional research? If what you say is true, then absolutely a UTM is mandatory and what you and ptaeiy are saying makes sense. But I need more info. Thanks in advance.
My local bullion dealer doesn't have an XRF. I asked and they said no, yet they buy and sell plenty of gold and silver bullion. Last time I sold them a bar they didn't even ask for ID. At a local coin dealer I bought a non bullion silver coin, took it home, realized it was fake (cupro nickel) and took it back to the store. Got a refund without any hassle. But the dealer has now put that coin back on the shelf for someone else to buy, without discounting it or marking it as fake.
Yeah my wife was always Questioning me so I bought a Sigma bullion verifier best thing I ever bought! not as good as an XRF but 2nd best. And not as pricey as an XRF.
Before the electronic detectors, dealers used acid vials. Learn how to determine the purity if there is no electricity. It's cheap and effective and important if you need to convince someone that you have pure silver and gold.
@@bentnickel7487 you are correct. However acid test requires you to “damage” the bullion or jewelry in question by scratching it, before applying the acid. If confirmed genuine, you will have a hard time to convince someone to buy a “damaged” product even though it is proven genuine. It just doesn’t look good. Secondly, the acid itself is corrosive and dangerous. This means you need to wear gloves and take other precautionary safety measures while doing the acid test. Thirdly it is like the XRF...it is only a surface test and doesn’t test for what’s deep inside the bullion. So a fake gold bar can have a deep layer of gold plating and you would get a false positive with the acid test. Therefore one should never rely on one specific method of testing. To truly guarantee the authenticity of a precious metal, several types of testing needs to be combined to rule out fakes.
@@stormforge68 People today are amazing to me. I'm 71 y/o. You don't need safety glasses or gloves. You're putting one drop on the edge of a bar. If it changes colors, the bar is not what you bought. I didn't say test fine jewelry. Most people are not buying silver and gold off the street like a pawn shop. You don't need a scratch kit to test the percentage of purity. One drop that buffs out if it's real a silver bar. There is an alternative to paying hundreds of dollars for a machine. Don't exaggerate the dangers of one drop of acid from a Visine sized bottle. The family dog won't die from the fumes. If you're 6 y/o you probably shouldn't be testing silver with it, but I taught my 9 y/o daughter and she gave a demo at her science fair.
@@bentnickel7487 to each their own. I always advocate safety when in the presence of chemicals. If you know what you’re doing, all the more power to you. However I stand by my comments that an acid test by itself is insufficient to determine purity. Additional alternative testing is required to rule out fakes.
It's only goes in a few microns deep, so no. XRF can be stepped around as we said. But the other 2 topics we mentioned make up for that in our opinion.
@@andrewwald6504 Agree. Most coin dealers are just street smart wheeler dealers. Although these guys are nice guys. This technical stuff is not of interest to them unless they can play with a $20k machine to intimidate people.
Ive seen countless times on twitter bitcoiners saying “how do you know its not dyed rock?” Always trashing gold. They say it because they come with the argument “i can verify myself my bitcoin anytime” 🤦♂️
Yep its all good till the power goes out, or you lose connection. Only matter of time when the government issues there own Digital currency and make everything else worth 0.
Eddy Current tester w/ samples for calibration (eg. copper, silver), ultrasonic depth gauge (also with samples to calibrate), micrometer, scales. That's what I use along with purchasing reputable brands from a reputable source. First and last (small) purchase from ebay turned out not to be pure silver. Fool me once.
Good advice thanks, like your comment of getting tested in front of you....not like the cash banks now..your cash gets sucked into a machine and counted inside a machine, no glass window to see what’s happened...when machines first come out in uk I had the circumstance of machine miscount my notes short...it took a while for bank manager to get machine opened and find my missing £50, so be warned !
My question is, if bullion dealers were forced to close their doors for extended periods of time , as in Covid lockdown but perhaps longer, how and where would someone sell their metals?
Prepare , and decide on your exit plan when you buy, set up your network ,website or selling system and test it beforehand ....start small and set up trading now in preperation
@@jimig6442 my example is do some research on selling te chniqes and margins on metals, choose metals/ coins that can sell for higher premiums, I’ve started setting up my own small metals trading , including a small foundry for melting and casting, I’m sell small amounts online ,getting a feel for best way to sell, building relationships with suppliers and people who purchase. So when time comes to move larger amounts I am more educated in way to make maximum returns, I hope this helps
@@davidhowick3665 , Sounds interesting David. I will explore some of these ideas. I did think however, that more people would be concerned about the point of my question, I mean seriously, what the hell do people do in such circumstances? We all just assume that if the time comes where we decide to sell, that it will just be a matter of popping into the nearest bullion dealer and hoping for a fair price. But if the city is in lockdown, what then?? Thanks again mate.
When you guys do merchandise for the Chanel 1 T-shirt with ... where’s your gloves Micheal 2. White cotton gloves .. with ...no glove, no love.. As always , nice content.
This video is brilliant. I’ve been wondering about this so to see this video is awesome. I am from the England, United Kingdom and I don’t have any Bullion dealers near me so I order online from respected dealers *Cough Cough* (Royal Mint & Bullion by Post) However I have a strong desire to find a Bullion shop and buy and interact face to face and I’m really enjoying Stacking. It’s just a shame Bullion Now is a few, few thousand miles away! 😂
It's particularly important, if you're only buying on line, for you to have several avenues to dispose of your collection. Buying is easy and fun. Selling may only net you 80% of what you thought you had. Or even, 50% in some cases. Sell enough to understand who and where you need to call, when the time comes.
@Harry Howard I personally know of only one reputable bullion dealer in the UK, it is Chards. Their website is: www.chards.co.uk. You can also join The Silver Forum, a UK based website that discusses all things precious metals. It is www.thesilverforum.com. Im sure the UK members there can provide additional insight as to other reputable bullion dealers in the UK near you. If you sign up, look for me online, my username is SilverStorm. Good luck!
Good video, all valid points that BullionNow has mentioned. To answer the question how can I determine if the bullion is legit...there are several at home tests that can be done. Example: weight test with scale, magnet slide test, digital caliper, specific gravity test. All can be done at home as long as you have the proper tools. Just buy a precision scale, digital caliper and neodymium magnet from Amazon. Specific gravity test...Google to see how it is done. If the person is looking to become a serious stacker, then he should invest in the more expensive tools like sigma metalytics precious metal verifier, GVS Archimedes, etc. Alternatively person should buy bullion with high tech security features, like the Royal Canadian Mint silver or gold maples that have laser etched security in the maple leaf as well as having bullion DNA. Visual confirmation will prove that it’s legitimate (these are extremely difficult to fake if not impossible). Regarding name brand bars and slabbed coins...there are instances of fakes for both, so definitely need to be aware. Buying from reputable bullion dealer will cut down fakes to near zero.
@ptaeiy . Edit. I see from another of your comments further down you also mention these things. I'll leave my comment I posted. -=-=- Simply weighing a known mint product can detect many a fake. A Perth Mint ounce or kilo will be 1 troy ounce / 1000 grams to within fractions of a gram. Fakes are often a few grams to heavy / light. If still uncertain measure the size of a bar / coin. Gold/Tungsten fakes aside, it is quite hard to get the proper dimensions *and* weight to match up.
If you were anywhere near our store in Melbourne, Australia you can bring it through and we can test it for you, or try to find a jeweler or coin dealer near you that's ok to test it. Also if you wanted to email a photo of it through to live@bullionnow.com.au I can take a look at it for you, Won't necessarily be able to know 100 percent, but we know a couple of things to look for :)
Last comment on XRF...yes and no. Yes it doesn’t lie. But no it’s not infallible. You need to confirm XRF readings with other testing methods to confirm validity of the precious metal in order to have 100% confidence it is legitimate.
Some pure water and precise scales allows you to *see* what's inside your gold bar e.g. specific gravity test. Although you can still be fooled if cheap tungsten or platinum is hidden deep inside and then you need what is basically a laboratory ping test to absolutely confirm it's solid gold. Neither conductivity test (Sigma) nor XRF are very good at confirming solid gold.
@ptaeiy Testing expected frequency in control environ. There are apps like cointrust that can very easily weed out tungsten or platinum fakes from solid gold.
Hahaha, "Certified by the LBMA?" Aren't they they same LBMA who accidentally said they purchased 3300 tonnes of physical silver in February and then in May said they "miscounted" and they actually didn't purchase the 3300 tonnes?
I have not seen a fake PCGS graded coin BUT I have seen other “graded and encapsulated “ coins that were. Save yourself the drama and buy from Bullion Now.
The devil's in the details when it comes to brand stamping and production quality, comparison to a verified example is desirable. Also the dimensions can be measured with calipers and compared to the standard measurements per refiner.
Bad advice @ 3:57. Reputation is insufficient. This guy needs to advise his followers better than that. Have your metals tested, regardless of the reputation of the seller.
We recommend first and foremost to have your metals tested and we never suggest dealing with any bullion dealer than doesn't have an XRF or other testing facilities. That being said, if one HAS to buy without testing, reputation of the dealer is the next best thing. Do you think APMEX would knowingly sell fakes? Of course not. Neither does any bullion dealer who wants to stay in business for longer than 1 day. Buying from a company that has been in business for a while, has a storefront (not just online) so you can meet the owner in person, etc... is the way to go.
@@BullionNow having a storefront does not make a dealer inherently more ethical more. It may make them more risky since they are also buying from walk-ins much of the time. Furthermore, there have been a number if silver bugs that have shared fakes that they've received from "reputable" companies.
@@smk4428 There is a saying, trust must be earned, not given away. I deal with a small list of reputable bullion dealers here in Canada, and I independently test all of my bullion with my Sigma Metalytics precious metal verifier, along with other testing metrics. I have not been disappointed or scammed by the bullion dealers I buy from. But that is just my personal experience.
I'm sorry to say this, but in these days we have seen such rascals in every kind of business that it's really difficult just to trust by a mark. People are thinking just of making a bunch of money and flying away.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9, Jesus Christ is the only way, KJV.
Please wear gloves when handling the products. Silver can tarnish from oil and grease from the skin. You touched your nose 5 times in this 6 minutes video.
Tarnish is from sulphur in the air forming silver sulfide, nothing to do with touching The only things finger prints can do is leave a mark due to acidity, and he's handling bars, bars are fine for handling, no one cares if there's fingerprints on a castbar
Been dealing with Bullion now for about 2 years now and they have been nothing but absolute legends, down to earth, helpful bunch, and very competitive.
Thanks! The cheque is in the mail...
@@BullionNow haha did I mention hilarious
@@BullionNow cheeky 😉
I’m more than happy to talk about the integrity of the person you just heard speak. Very honourable, genuine and humble man to deal with as well as the Bullion Now brand.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Well said, where’s joe. I can’t hear him yelling where’s your gloves Micheal ? Lol
Michael helped me realize my true purpose as a Fondler. I have a need to fondle, and I shouldn’t be deprived of that. So I’m taking a bar out of assay lol
I wouldn't publicise being a Fondler too wide...
I wince when I hear silver stackers say, "I only buy, I have never sold any silver". I collected numismatically for years, never selling, until an emergency forced me to sell a small amount. That's when reality stepped forward. It changed "how and what" I so blindly purchased. You need to establish several avenues for selling your coins, bars and rounds. I would say, selling is far more important, than buying. Buying is easy. Selling what you have collected, may be impossible. Find out now, before your very existence depends on it.
Well said! Get your exit plan ready before you need it.
This! Absolutely correct advice. I tell stackers in the accumulation phase to buy 10; sell 1 all the way up so that they know how to sell and what to expect. If you sell back to an LCS you will get crushed as you probably found out. Selling peer to peer is the way to go but has many more difficult nuances. That why you need to start practicing how to sell now. Also, numismatic coins are a total disaster trying to liquidate quickly as it is really really hard to get paid what they are "worth." The only thing that I have found reasonably easy to sell are American Silver Eagles, and Canadian Silver Maple Leafs--all bullion no fancy slab crap. Good luck to all.
Thank u 🙏🏻 sir. Just stared collecting gold. Been collecting silver seen I was a boy scout back in the sixties! I have books of Mercury head dimes, all silver quarters, half dollars and dollars and of course many silver coins. Some Morgan dollars 1891 and older.
How do I know it's real gold or silver and not fake? In this episode of our "How To Invest In Gold" series, Michael answers this frequently asked question. This video is perfect for beginners. Questions? Visit www.bullionnow.com.au to find our contact details, we'd be more than happy to help you.
well said in the video mate - that's why I love and trust buying from you guys!! Top service, quality brands and always good for a joke with the team!! Keep up the good work!!
Also, as an Afghan vet - appreciate the offer you guys had for the coins.... I wasn't able to make it last week for pick up but happy to buy them if they're still in stock... I'll mention it to Brett or Rubin next time I'm there
My local bullion dealer has had a number of fake "Pamp" bars brought in; mostly 1 troy ounce bars.
XRF is only one method and is not foolproof.
One can also test for electrical conductivity, weight, mass, density, etc.
I always buy brand new bullion, not secondhand, for a reason; to prevent against fakes. I also buy from reputable Mint authorised resellers and reputable dealers, not eBay.
@@GertrudePerkins like what
Take it to Michael with his super xrp state of the art testing machine
The brand that I only buy is Perth mint from bullionnow or direct from Perth mint...
Agree with you 100%!
Thanks
Is Apmex a trustworthy company on precious metals?
Yes, 100%.
Excellent video, I drove from Adelaide to Melbourne just to check out the business before sending regular orders for delivery. I was not disappointed, very professionally run business and the lowest premiums I have found of any bullion dealers
Oh wow! Thats cool. Thanks for being a RADelaide customer!
Have to admit as someone who's just entering this it's scary! I'm ready to pay more to get it from the reputable online dealers than to go to a local shop. The economy is desperate and they're up to shady stuff out there. I'd be the perfect target.
Much obliged gents👍
Specific gravity , I don't think i would trust any other method . I dont know if an XRF would get something that was encased . Cutting in 1/2 or drilling would be too damaging .
My local bullion dealer has had a number of fake "Pamp" bars brought in; mostly troy ounce bars.
XRF is only one method and is not foolproof.
One can also test for electrical conductivity, weight, mass, density, etc.
I always buy brand new bullion, not secondhand, for a reason; to prevent against fakes. I also buy from reputable Mint authorised resellers and reputable dealers, not eBay.
Couldn’t agree more with your comment.
Well said!
NOT ACCEPTABLE! XRF doesn't penetrate and couldn't catch plated tungsten. Furthermore, plated tungsten would also pass the density test. Fakes out of SE Asia now are using gold-plated tungsten to beat the XRF and density tests. You must combine with an ultrasound or conductivity test, and ideally both. All the serious dealers in Singapore do this, and central banks do as well. This is why I stopped buying bullion from dealers, because let's face it, they are salesmen who wouldn't pass college physics. Again: XRF, density, ultrasound, AND conductivity. 4 tests.
Reputation doesn't mean anything, especially when these guys are buying from clients who could be passing plated tungsten. This is a very real problem, and I hate to think how much fake bullion is circulating out there. Choose a dealer who does the ultrasound test!
I agree with your comments for the most part. However I disagree with you regarding reputation. Hypothetically speaking, if you buy bullion (just humor me and choose), would you rather buy bullion from a reputable dealer who's been in the business for many years and has a BBB score of A+ with good feedback, or would you buy from a dealer that's new and hasn't been around long enough to garner enough feedback? I think the answer is obvious.
Now going back to the original premise that an ultrasound test is a must...yes it would be ideal if the bullion dealer had an ultrasound testing machine. It's one more test that could be used to determine the validity of the metal. However there are many different ways to test precious metals, and as long as you test using several different metrics (which you have mentioned), it should be OK. A fake cannot pass all the different metrics of a valid precious metal. If a fake passes the weight test, it will fail somewhere else. If it passes a different metric, it will fail elsewhere. You can't have perfect fakes, unless it's an imitation of the original (but that is a different story for another time).
For example, if I had a GVS Bullion tester (which I plan to buy one day), I would be perfectly happy accepting its results along with my Sigma Metalytics Pro Mini. There would be no need for me to obtain an ultrasound testing device, although it wouldn't hurt to get one either. To quote GVS:
"A metal’s magnetism cannot be manipulated. Every metal reacts in its own way to a magnetic field. It is either attracted or repulsed. The manner and magnitude of this reaction depend entirely on the composition of the metal. Precious metals like gold are not magnetic and are only weakly repulsed by a magnetic field. Popular counterfeit materials (like e.g. tungsten, molybdenum, tantalum, hafnium, iridium, rhenium) on the other hand are attracted by magnets. The GVS Bullion Tester is a modern magnetic scale and measures the attraction or repulsion of the magnet contactlessly. All test objects remain in their packaging and suffer no decrease in value. Gilded objects and tungsten cores are identified immediately. Also, more objects can be tested simultaneously, like e.g. coins in a tube. The device is equally suited for large bullions. Results are available within seconds. The easy handling and quickly available results together with affordable acquisition costs position the GVS Bullion Tester above other destruction-free test methods.
The GVS Bullion Tester is easily operated without previous knowledge. As a professional trader you want to make sure only originals are purchased and sold. Also non-trained employees can make risk-free decisions with this quick-test. If you as a buyer do not trust a certain trader the GVS Bullion Tester is the way to make sure."
link: www.gvs-bullion.com/tester/tester_en.html
So if you can determine a metal's magnetism with absolute certainty, an ultrasound testing device isn't mandatory. Fakes can't pass all the metrics. Granted, an ultrasound testing device from Amazon is probably way cheaper to buy than the GVS Bullion Tester. But that is a discussion for another day.
@@stormforge68 You are correct that you can use a combination of tests to confirm material purity. All I was trying to do is advocate for a combination of tests that together are impossible to thwart using anything gold-plated. But as you can see in this video, there are bullion dealers who have no clue what they're doing, even reputable ones like this channel, when it comes to testing. Any testing should always do weight, density, and XRF first. Latter to determine 9999. After density, you need to combine with a test that rules out the materials that have the same density and to rule out plating. As @ptaeiy mentioned, ultrasound is the gold standard because celerity (speed of sound in a metal) can't be faked AND it will confirm there are absolutely no purities inside the bar. Any plating or material interfaces will create a noticeable ping that does not match the dimensions of the bar.
It is true that metal alloys are now being created by fakers in SE Asia that match the diamagnetism and density of gold within +/- 5%. This is why you MUST use ultrasound. I cannot emphasize enough, there are fakes out there now being sold to dealers in the secondary market who will use their XRF, magnetism, and density tests and think the bars are real. The guy in this video only relies on his XRF and is at huge risk of accepting fakes from customers looking to sell. Especially in another video he showed where he buys bars from a well-known customer. That customer could be buying real bars from Perth Mint obtained on the primary market, sourcing the gold for plating material, and selling back fakes.
@ptaeiy I agree that density + ultrasound as a duo are the best approach! Like you I just don't have the confidence with the Eddy currents and magnetic methods because of the wide tolerances with the instrumentation and target. With density and ultrasound, I go for +/- 3% tolerance on both which on those two together can rule out alloy, tungsten, anything not gold.
@ptaeiy You bring up good points, I grant you that. But at what size of precious metal does this become problematic? If I'm reading the GVS instruction & your comments correctly, to be at 2X range, the precious metal is so big that it wouldn't fit on the GVS machine. You wouldn't use the GVS testing method to begin with. IMHO, GVS would be used on kilo bars sized items and smaller. Anything larger, you'd have to use a different testing method like the UTM as you mentioned.
If I won the lottery, this would be the UTM I would get in a heartbeat:
www.olympus-ims.com/en/ut-flaw/epoch1000/
I can only dream!
@@andrewwald6504 Your last paragraph is interesting. Fakers in SE Asia can match the diamagnetism AND density to within +/-5%?!? Impressive and scary. Can you provide links regarding these fakes so I can do additional research? If what you say is true, then absolutely a UTM is mandatory and what you and ptaeiy are saying makes sense. But I need more info. Thanks in advance.
The Perth Mint, AE and Bullion Now are they only places I will purchase gold and silver. Also great TH-cam content. Cheers.
How do we know its real gold!
Michael said so thats how! 😉
Wow.... interesting!
My local bullion dealer doesn't have an XRF. I asked and they said no, yet they buy and sell plenty of gold and silver bullion. Last time I sold them a bar they didn't even ask for ID.
At a local coin dealer I bought a non bullion silver coin, took it home, realized it was fake (cupro nickel) and took it back to the store. Got a refund without any hassle. But the dealer has now put that coin back on the shelf for someone else to buy, without discounting it or marking it as fake.
And that is why you never buy from a bullion dealer if they don’t have any testing equipment to confirm validity of a precious metal.
@@stormforge68
Fortunately, my local dealer does.
Wow! They just put it back to resell as a legit piece?! That’s really messed up!!
Yeah sure.
Yeah my wife was always Questioning me so I bought a Sigma bullion verifier best thing I ever bought! not as good as an XRF but 2nd best. And not as pricey as an XRF.
Congrats on your purchase. I love mine too. I’m looking to pick up more testing equipment in the near future. 😁
Before the electronic detectors, dealers used acid vials. Learn how to determine the purity if there is no electricity. It's cheap and effective and important if you need to convince someone that you have pure silver and gold.
@@bentnickel7487 you are correct. However acid test requires you to “damage” the bullion or jewelry in question by scratching it, before applying the acid. If confirmed genuine, you will have a hard time to convince someone to buy a “damaged” product even though it is proven genuine. It just doesn’t look good.
Secondly, the acid itself is corrosive and dangerous. This means you need to wear gloves and take other precautionary safety measures while doing the acid test.
Thirdly it is like the XRF...it is only a surface test and doesn’t test for what’s deep inside the bullion. So a fake gold bar can have a deep layer of gold plating and you would get a false positive with the acid test. Therefore one should never rely on one specific method of testing. To truly guarantee the authenticity of a precious metal, several types of testing needs to be combined to rule out fakes.
@@stormforge68 People today are amazing to me. I'm 71 y/o. You don't need safety glasses or gloves. You're putting one drop on the edge of a bar. If it changes colors, the bar is not what you bought. I didn't say test fine jewelry. Most people are not buying silver and gold off the street like a pawn shop. You don't need a scratch kit to test the percentage of purity. One drop that buffs out if it's real a silver bar. There is an alternative to paying hundreds of dollars for a machine. Don't exaggerate the dangers of one drop of acid from a Visine sized bottle. The family dog won't die from the fumes. If you're 6 y/o you probably shouldn't be testing silver with it, but I taught my 9 y/o daughter and she gave a demo at her science fair.
@@bentnickel7487 to each their own. I always advocate safety when in the presence of chemicals. If you know what you’re doing, all the more power to you. However I stand by my comments that an acid test by itself is insufficient to determine purity. Additional alternative testing is required to rule out fakes.
I’m waiting for India. Hyderabad I love for video’s
Does XRF penetrate deep enough into a 1000oz?
It's only goes in a few microns deep, so no. XRF can be stepped around as we said. But the other 2 topics we mentioned make up for that in our opinion.
@@BullionNow No, the other 2 topics most definitely don't make up for it. See my other long comment about this. You have no idea what you're doing.
@@andrewwald6504 Agree. Most coin dealers are just street smart wheeler dealers. Although these guys are nice guys. This technical stuff is not of interest to them unless they can play with a $20k machine to intimidate people.
Ive seen countless times on twitter bitcoiners saying “how do you know its not dyed rock?” Always trashing gold. They say it because they come with the argument “i can verify myself my bitcoin anytime” 🤦♂️
As can pretty much any government! 😄
Yep its all good till the power goes out, or you lose connection. Only matter of time when the government issues there own Digital currency and make everything else worth 0.
Many bitcoiners started in gold so they actually do know a little about the economics and science of gold.
@@mikep1 most don't
If you can't hold it, it's not real. This is only my opinion.
Eddy Current tester w/ samples for calibration (eg. copper, silver), ultrasonic depth gauge (also with samples to calibrate), micrometer, scales. That's what I use along with purchasing reputable brands from a reputable source. First and last (small) purchase from ebay turned out not to be pure silver. Fool me once.
Great advice Kenny!
The slabbed bars are now starting to get faked as well what can you do to guarantee you’re slab is real
Great video mate; I’m about to invest in a Kg of Bullion with the craziness of the world & economies these days. New sub 🙋🏼♂️ Thankyou
Thanks again wish I was in oz would happily deal with you guys
Good advice thanks, like your comment of getting tested in front of you....not like the cash banks now..your cash gets sucked into a machine and counted inside a machine, no glass window to see what’s happened...when machines first come out in uk I had the circumstance of machine miscount my notes short...it took a while for bank manager to get machine opened and find my missing £50, so be warned !
Always get your bullion dealer to count your cash in front of you too!
Great informative vid Michael. Like I always tell myself, if the deal is too good to be true, RUN! 😷
Absolutely.
My question is, if bullion dealers were forced to close their doors for extended periods of time , as in Covid lockdown but perhaps longer, how and where would someone sell their metals?
Prepare , and decide on your exit plan when you buy, set up your network ,website or selling system and test it beforehand ....start small and set up trading now in preperation
@@davidhowick3665 , thanks mate. But I'm a bit naive in these matters, what you say doesn't really help me much. Any other info would be appreciated..
@@jimig6442 my example is do some research on selling te chniqes and margins on metals, choose metals/ coins that can sell for higher premiums, I’ve started setting up my own small metals trading , including a small foundry for melting and casting, I’m sell small amounts online ,getting a feel for best way to sell, building relationships with suppliers and people who purchase. So when time comes to move larger amounts I am more educated in way to make maximum returns, I hope this helps
@@davidhowick3665 , Sounds interesting David. I will explore some of these ideas.
I did think however, that more people would be concerned about the point of my question, I mean seriously, what the hell do people do in such circumstances? We all just assume that if the time comes where we decide to sell, that it will just be a matter of popping into the nearest bullion dealer and hoping for a fair price. But if the city is in lockdown, what then??
Thanks again mate.
I'd actually like to hear what Michael has to say about it..
Well spoken sir
Good info thanks Michael
Awesome and Amazing video that truly tells it like it is !!!!
Thank You !!!!
You're very welcome!
Great video Michael very informative lots a good information.
Thanks 👍
When you guys do merchandise for the Chanel
1 T-shirt with ... where’s your gloves Micheal
2. White cotton gloves .. with ...no glove, no love..
As always , nice content.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
nice
Well stated. Thank you.
Michael just racking me up, hahaha...
This video is brilliant. I’ve been wondering about this so to see this video is awesome. I am from the England, United Kingdom and I don’t have any Bullion dealers near me so I order online from respected dealers *Cough Cough* (Royal Mint & Bullion by Post) However I have a strong desire to find a Bullion shop and buy and interact face to face and I’m really enjoying Stacking. It’s just a shame Bullion Now is a few, few thousand miles away! 😂
It's particularly important, if you're only buying on line, for you to have several avenues to dispose of your collection. Buying is easy and fun. Selling may only net you 80% of what you thought you had. Or even, 50% in some cases. Sell enough to understand who and where you need to call, when the time comes.
@@bentnickel7487 Cool, Thankyou for the great Advice Bent.
If you're ever "in town", make sure to stop by!
@@BullionNow Will do 👌🏻
@Harry Howard I personally know of only one reputable bullion dealer in the UK, it is Chards. Their website is: www.chards.co.uk.
You can also join The Silver Forum, a UK based website that discusses all things precious metals. It is www.thesilverforum.com. Im sure the UK members there can provide additional insight as to other reputable bullion dealers in the UK near you. If you sign up, look for me online, my username is SilverStorm. Good luck!
Good video 👍🏻
Thanks maaaaaaaaates!
@@BullionNow most welcome! 😁🥝🦘
Not the biggest, but the best!
Awwwwww thanks.
Oooh ohh is it perthmint without glove michael
Good video, all valid points that BullionNow has mentioned.
To answer the question how can I determine if the bullion is legit...there are several at home tests that can be done. Example: weight test with scale, magnet slide test, digital caliper, specific gravity test. All can be done at home as long as you have the proper tools. Just buy a precision scale, digital caliper and neodymium magnet from Amazon. Specific gravity test...Google to see how it is done.
If the person is looking to become a serious stacker, then he should invest in the more expensive tools like sigma metalytics precious metal verifier, GVS Archimedes, etc.
Alternatively person should buy bullion with high tech security features, like the Royal Canadian Mint silver or gold maples that have laser etched security in the maple leaf as well as having bullion DNA. Visual confirmation will prove that it’s legitimate (these are extremely difficult to fake if not impossible).
Regarding name brand bars and slabbed coins...there are instances of fakes for both, so definitely need to be aware. Buying from reputable bullion dealer will cut down fakes to near zero.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
@ptaeiy . Edit. I see from another of your comments further down you also mention these things. I'll leave my comment I posted.
-=-=-
Simply weighing a known mint product can detect many a fake. A Perth Mint ounce or kilo will be 1 troy ounce / 1000 grams to within fractions of a gram. Fakes are often a few grams to heavy / light.
If still uncertain measure the size of a bar / coin. Gold/Tungsten fakes aside, it is quite hard to get the proper dimensions *and* weight to match up.
I brought a car and it had a one ounce bullion gold Ingot how can I tell if it's real
If you were anywhere near our store in Melbourne, Australia you can bring it through and we can test it for you, or try to find a jeweler or coin dealer near you that's ok to test it. Also if you wanted to email a photo of it through to live@bullionnow.com.au I can take a look at it for you, Won't necessarily be able to know 100 percent, but we know a couple of things to look for :)
1st alert the media. Ricky Bobby would be proud.
Sadly reputation doesn't always mean much. People like Bernie Madoff were highly respected until they were caught. Luckily an XRF doesn't lie.
Last comment on XRF...yes and no. Yes it doesn’t lie. But no it’s not infallible. You need to confirm XRF readings with other testing methods to confirm validity of the precious metal in order to have 100% confidence it is legitimate.
Why not show testing it the bars before you cry the gold and show it that’s what I expected to see
what kind of cheap instruments can I use to verify my gold bullion at home if I don’t own a sigma metalytics precious metal verifier?
Read my post above, I’ve listed all the cheap equipment you can use to measure and test bullion.
Acid testing. You don't need electricity.
Some pure water and precise scales allows you to *see* what's inside your gold bar e.g. specific gravity test. Although you can still be fooled if cheap tungsten or platinum is hidden deep inside and then you need what is basically a laboratory ping test to absolutely confirm it's solid gold. Neither conductivity test (Sigma) nor XRF are very good at confirming solid gold.
@ptaeiy Testing expected frequency in control environ. There are apps like cointrust that can very easily weed out tungsten or platinum fakes from solid gold.
there are peer reviewed paprs
WTF is an XRF? GFVDB.
Hahaha, "Certified by the LBMA?" Aren't they they same LBMA who accidentally said they purchased 3300 tonnes of physical silver in February and then in May said they "miscounted" and they actually didn't purchase the 3300 tonnes?
Different topic to making fake bars. LBMA accredited refiners/mints don't do that.
LBMA just ‘mistakenly’ got there sums wrong on how much Silver they had during Silver squeeze...bloody crooks ! Good video though 👍
a simple stamp can be faux or faked very easily. ive seen lead plated in gold thick enough when scraped it's still gold DOWNUNDER
You didn’t show us any techniques on how to sus out the real from the fake🤨
Bullion Now:
you wrote the name "Michael" twice. (michael michael answers this)
Thanks, fixed!
Thanks for the video........
Is that a new XRF gun? The one I seen was blue.
Newer model. We still have the blue one as a back up.
I have not seen a fake PCGS graded coin BUT I have seen other “graded and encapsulated “ coins that were. Save yourself the drama and buy from Bullion Now.
The devil's in the details when it comes to brand stamping and production quality, comparison to a verified example is desirable. Also the dimensions can be measured with calipers and compared to the standard measurements per refiner.
Isn't there also an old skool way of testing the metal with chemicals?
Yes you can do the acid test. Not recommended.
What they said 🖕
👑👑
Bad advice @ 3:57. Reputation is insufficient. This guy needs to advise his followers better than that. Have your metals tested, regardless of the reputation of the seller.
We recommend first and foremost to have your metals tested and we never suggest dealing with any bullion dealer than doesn't have an XRF or other testing facilities. That being said, if one HAS to buy without testing, reputation of the dealer is the next best thing. Do you think APMEX would knowingly sell fakes? Of course not. Neither does any bullion dealer who wants to stay in business for longer than 1 day. Buying from a company that has been in business for a while, has a storefront (not just online) so you can meet the owner in person, etc... is the way to go.
@@BullionNow having a storefront does not make a dealer inherently more ethical more. It may make them more risky since they are also buying from walk-ins much of the time. Furthermore, there have been a number if silver bugs that have shared fakes that they've received from "reputable" companies.
@@smk4428 There is a saying, trust must be earned, not given away. I deal with a small list of reputable bullion dealers here in Canada, and I independently test all of my bullion with my Sigma Metalytics precious metal verifier, along with other testing metrics. I have not been disappointed or scammed by the bullion dealers I buy from. But that is just my personal experience.
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I'm sorry to say this, but in these days we have seen such rascals in every kind of business that it's really difficult just to trust by a mark.
People are thinking just of making a bunch of money and flying away.
If you can't use school science at home to verify it's gold then maybe you shouldn't buy gold in the first place...
It's more about testing at the point of sale, not when you get home.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9, Jesus Christ is the only way, KJV.
Please wear gloves when handling the products. Silver can tarnish from oil and grease from the skin. You touched your nose 5 times in this 6 minutes video.
Tarnish is from sulphur in the air forming silver sulfide, nothing to do with touching
The only things finger prints can do is leave a mark due to acidity, and he's handling bars, bars are fine for handling, no one cares if there's fingerprints on a castbar
Sulphur is what causes the tarnishing.
For a pre-owned kilo of gold or bullion silver kg bar, we don't feel gloves are necessary. For coins not in capsules, definitely gloving up!