I have been after a Petition like that for *months* , thanks for the link Mack, signing it now! PS, *Major* Kudos to the Creator for Mentioning Vulnerable Adults as well as Children, as it is the Vulnerable Adults, as I am one Myself, I am most Concerned about!
For me 2017 looks like the year when I give up buying AAA games and I am quite happy with this decision. So far I have bought Hellblade, Cuphead and I am looking forward to Kingdom Come Deliverance. I think the future of gaming lies with these smaller independent studios who are trying to make high quality games - Ninja Theory,Warhorse Studios etc. As for the big guys maybe I will look into these once the price drops to a few $s etc. Maybe.
Yeah Darkwood is free from the developers, even made a video talking about it. But I am too scared to play it. I haven't heard of Exanima, will have a look what its about. Thanks
Just checked Exanima on steam. Looks really good, a lot of people praising the combat. Added to wishlist. Also I am looking at ELEX - rpg from the makers of gothic, also looks very appealing.
Just remember when you play Exanima to really give it a chance. Keep in mind it's still in development and that the combat is unique. If you have an open mind and put enough time into it you'll enjoy it. If you're scared of Darkwood though you may be a little scared of Exanima as well. Both are dark and atmospheric.
This is how stupid the gaming industry is. People are actually spending money to skip content. Pay $60 for the game, then pay even more to not play all of it. Fucking hilarious and if they're stupid enough to pay it then let them.
yeah but devs are starting to make the early parts of games even more of a grind to force you in to micro transactions, look at nba 2018. its starting to effect us all as consumers
exactly. it's affecting design of games now. it's purposefully harder in a way that is appealing to skip over because you have to pay them to skip. this reinforces them to make that part to want to be skippable or more grinding by design.
Here is a simple way of telling if something is gambling. Does it require money to play? Do you have a statistical chance of winning something? Do you lose money or in-game credits bought with money when you lose a roll or don't win anything? If yes to all three questions, its gambling.
One thing what these companies do is they give you something like lets say diamonds/gold etc for real money to obscure the real value of loot boxses etc. So it is kinda worst than just gambling.
You don't need the third thing for something to be gambling. Not getting what you were rolling the dice for, also counts as losing within context of gambling. It doesn't matter you get a guaranteed reward. Keep in mind this random generation of rewards is a completely different situation than just picking the exact content you want and buying that directly. The gambling element in this is super obvious.
With Kinder Eggs you get something you want, the chocolate. TBH though, I don't think loot crates are gambling but they're close to the line. Edit: Either way, it's shitty behaviour, especially PTW.
If someone were to build a casino across the street from a middle school and put advertisements all around the school to encourage kids to go after school and play slots for pokemon cards(that's what was popular when I was in middle school, what are kids into now a days?), you can be damn sure there would be a riot. So now I ask you, how is this practice any different?
Finally people are talking about this in the right way, thank you! Minors, and all players, are being taken advantage of. You may never get what you're looking for even if you don't care about the "whole experience."
5:26 True wisdom right there. Life should never be about the destination. It should be about the journey. Experience and make the most of every moment. Worry not about the past nor future.
It is absolutely gambling, my brother bought £800 of Fifa coins in 2015 from my mums card. He as a kid was set in the mindset of gambling and it actually is disgusting that the government hasn't stopped this it's illegal!
Matt Cash wow. I agree. Micro transaction in games should be banned all together. The next best thing is they put an age restriction and a cap of £20 on in game purchases. That wouldnt satisfy me buy its better than what it is now. Its attrocious that people spend more money in micro transactions than the actual price of the game.
J Cole you capitalized the word ''forced'' as though I used that word. I dont know if you underatand the moral of the story which is kids will be exploited by greedy developers so long as developers are allowed to exploit them with no consequences. Nobody can stop little billy from nickin his moms credit card to go on a shopping spree over hyped up pixels and minor upgrades. Kids will be kids. The blame goes to the developers and shame on you for defending this practice that does nothing to help the gaming industry and does everything to ruin it
I remember as a kid being able to buy "grab bags" at the store. You didn't know what was going to be inside. Could be candy or a toy or some stupid gadget. The thing that made it NOT gambling was that you always got something for your money. To be gambling you have to be able to lose completely. If you get something for your money then you bought an item blind. The thing I find objectionable is that you have no ability to buy the thing on its own so you are forced to buy the loot crates. What should happen is that you have all the items separately purchasable (maybe for a slightly higher price) and then have the loot crates on the side.
''There is no destination as much as the journey'' They completetely forgett that games are a media to be enjoyed, not just consumed. Like who the hell pays to see a Movie then leaves the cinema during the intro and pays some random dude to give a quik recap of what the Movie was about?
And you know why they want to to breeze through the game ? Because they want to be able to sell another game in 6 months. They make the game huge to tick the "open world" box on the marketing spreadsheet, but they really want you to be done with it in 2 months top.
Yup! Just like those $0.25 machines that would spit out little toys in a plastic bubble that could usually be found @ grocery stores back in the day. Training us from young lol
You're so right about EA games in the past, you used to see the logo come up or on the box and you were confident that it's gonna be a good game. It's so depressing that now it's the complete opposite, just BUYING games is a complete gamble especially from EA and other big publishers.
They started by selling us the dlc, then dlc in pieces, then random drops for dlc. The next mode is games as a subscription, instead of paying $60 you will pay a small montly fee, or better yet, subscribe to the developer. Then industry crash
As always Mac you are spot on. Some people still argue that it's not gambling. Ruining games. If this becomes industry standard in single player games I will quit gaming. Sadly we know it eventually will.
Thanks Mack for pointing it out. I feel that nobody actually talks about this problem. Seems to me like it all started with the mobile games and after they saw that this is a hell of a market, they did the same with AAA games. I miss the old times...
Yes it is about the journey not the destination. I find it interesting though how some people in mmo's rush to the end then complain there is no end game. These loot boxes/loot creates in these games makes me lose any interest I may of had to buying the game in the first place.
Something worth noting about the earning of crates in Battlefront 2 in game is the amount of credits earned is locked at a cap in the beta, it was the same in the alpha but you always earned 700credits a match so got everything pretty quickly, I'm pretty sure not certain that it's much slower in the beta due to EA/DICE wanting people to play the beta longer and not have everything unlocked so quickly and I also believe reading that credits earned in matches at release will have a minimum amount that increases depending on your score similar to the first. While the star card part is pretty much pay2win the cosmetics was a good choice and hopefully they might actually listen to people and make the crates just contain currency and cosmetics at most but I am doubtful.
I work 40 hours a week and I have completed many many games, on GTA Alone of which I have never purchased Microtransactions I have everything Online like 90 days played and that is over 4 years still enjoying the game, hell I have been playing some games for over a year now. Still playing them.
Its that kind of players that Never truly will appreciate skyrim. I have had the game for a long time and I just like to explore the world and sometimes when I get to a town I can help them if I want. I love that game even if I don't play it all the time.
I was wondering the exact thing about a week or so ago. Because 100% agreed about what gambling is and how loot crates are definitely classified as gambling and yeah it against the law.
I work 40 hours a week, spend a couple hours on a game during the weekend, but never felt like buying crates with actual money. One reason is I mostly buy games that don't have them in the first place and the 2nd is that I like to enjoy the game, not pay extra to skip most of it.
Whilst this isn't do to with loot boxes, this was something I learned about slots months ago, so I thought I'd share. In slots, when you almost win, it's actually an illusion. You weren't close at all. It's DESIGNED to make you think you were close. It's called the Near-Miss Effect (source: vegasclick.com/games/slots/how-they-work, search "illusion"). Also watch George Carlin make fun of the term "near-miss": th-cam.com/video/zDKdvTecYAM/w-d-xo.html. This is also interesting because CSGO has a slot-like machine in its game when you open containers. Now I don't know if CSGO works the same way, so if someone knows, please let me know. Still, it's something good to be aware of. Anyway to answer your question "Is Buying Loot Boxes Gambling?" www.dictionary.com/browse/gambling probably says it the best: "2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance:"
He has a point. Some people have busy lives and may not finish the game if it takes 60 hours. There is nothing wrong with giving them a choice to speed things up.
I remember when I spent 120 pound on microtransactions for FIFA 14 as a 13 year old...glad to say it's been 2 years since I've done anything of the sorts
I agree with everything you're saying apart from it being restricted gambling. Caveat: I am no lawyer and I'm looking at from MWR and BF1 because I have no interest in Destiny or SWBF2 so I don't know the in-game details of those two. Yes, it's gambling technically, but there's no real world risk. What do you risk by buying loot crates? You buy the opportunity to get something you can't use real-world. Anything you get is of no sale-value, real world. Seems to me your real problem is with in-game microtransactions and gaming business models which I have a problem with as well
Obviously, microtransactions are bad, especially in a sixty dollar game. However, I would rather take loot crates than paid map DLC's as at least loot crates do not split the community. Of course, no microtransactions is better than some microtransactions, but compared to other EA/ Dice games, loot boxes are a step in the right direction.
Check out another bizarre aspect of the main stream influencing gaming in the wake of the release of Cuphead; the debate of whether or not games should come with a "skip difficult parts" button and the emotional harm difficult games do to the casual crowd when they encounter fail states...
Major game companies should get together and create "The ultimate game". Where companies all come together and contribute to what it is they might be good at! Ubisoft can make the trailer and the animations. CD PROJEKT RED can create the side quest narratives. Bethesda can create the open world. Bioware can write the story. And EA can make the microtransactions!
Interesting point of view.. perhaps these things in gaming should be incorporated into actual gambling laws. That would be fucking hilarious, mess up the greedy cunts' business models
Why does this channel only have 144k subscribers? It should be 1.4mil at least. This just shows the mentality of the population, truthers are getting rare.
The argument by that WB game designer really fits together with the mentality in many gamers today it seems: Beating the game as fast as you can after playing/beginning it as fast as you can, ergo pre-ordering it. Is it some sort of unresistable desire for many to be "amongst the first" who take bragging rights on steam or the internetz or simply to know it for themselves? Or is it part of the hype machine, so that gamers feel the necessity to buy and play a game during its biggest "hype-phase" because they think or feel the game is better or more enjoyable in that short time period compared to when noone else gives a damn anymore? Either way, it shows how childish and shallow gaming experience seems to be/have become for many. Something that the big companies can now exploit after they helped to cultivate it with providing said inferior gaming expierences only based on flashy/"badass" trailers and graphics.
Yes, you pay real money in the hopes of getting something desirable at the risk of getting something unwanted. With a kinder egg at least you still have the chocolate but with loot boxes the core idea is to pay money to have a 1 in nnnnnn chance of getting an item better than what others (paying the same money) end up with. When loot boxes are the only acquisition method for gameplay related items they then also become direct exploitation of the player base.
That's ignoring the fact that companies are willingly inhibiting the standard gameplay experience of the core title to "encourage" people to pay money to progress. IMO digital gambling systems should be HEAVILY regulated and all statistics and affected systems should have all relevant numbers front and centre to prevent back-room fiddling with the numbers.
Hey Mack, I completely agree with you on every point here and I'm sick of these business practices. But I'm curious, what is your opinion when it comes to card packs in card games? Similar to Hearthstone?
I agree,the whole "NepentheZ" story goes to show how these loot crates/packs/boxes/whatever you call them can be exploited and do actually have a value to someone. Google "NepentheZ" for those that don't know the whole story Basically the guy was...sorry still is a youtuber who used his channels to promote his own Fifa gambling site that fleeced kids of their money.He was found guilty of promoting under age gambling What did youtube do when he was found guilty?...yep nothing he wasn't thrown off for using their platform for his illegal activity.
When I first played WoW (My first MMORPG) I was so worried about rushing the content I went and made a post on the forums asking if there was a way to turn off rested XP. gamers are so different now
i'm a hundred percent behind you , Mac; you're right about this practice being nauseous inducing. I'll just wait for those games to be on sales for 3 quid or so, my own way to tell them to fuck off. Keep sounding the alarm, man, you're expressing the silent voice of the "go fuck yourselves big companies" minority!
I'm proud to say that I've never bought any in-game purchases be it on PC, Xbox, mobile whatever. If I've bought a game, I don't expect to have to by anything to actually play it. Yes I have bought DLC but in those cases, it was only extra missions not extra guns or new clothes etc and to be honest, nowdays, I just wait for Game of the Year an other such versions to get the DLC included in the price of the game.
I don't care because I don't partake in this. And besides - as a misanthrope I just have a fucking good laugh at those that do, really makes my day. Thanks Mack.
Without watching it all.... yes, it is. It is like you would buy a lottery ticket. Hearthstone for example.. you can buy 50 packs when the new addon comes out..the chances that you hit the cards that you need for the meta are almost zero.
yes mac mate you speak alot of sense love your rants so true they have ruined games today i remember the good old days with bully, gta sa, gears of war 1, oblivion, the warriors...... and many more they just dont make good games like this anymore its all about multiplayer loot boxed games chucked in with a shooter it gets boring very quickly
One of the reasons for years that Wow put off allowing a gold purchasing system was (allegedly) the concern that it would violate gambling laws in certain countries (despite Eve doing it for years). I guess companies DGAF now.
Mack. I 100% agree with everything you said. imo, yes, it's even WORSE than gambling because a large portion of the target audience for this crap is children. AND...even if kids were "gambling for real" they'd have a chance for ACTUAL MONETARY GAIN. This is worse because they basically take the money from Mommy's credit card and give the kid, 99% of the time, in-game shit. No chance to even WIN the money BACK! Sickening. Pure "monetary loss". It should be illegal---> this "RNG crap in games". OMG...look at Black Desert Online with their crap they've been pulling since launch with RNG gear upgrades! OMG!
For BF2, I can understand why they've added crates. The crates don't really make it easier for people in the game and tehy're pretty easy to get for free. Also, because there is no DLC/Season Pass, they need a way to make money after launch.
I agree with you Mack, HOWEVER...technically to make a purchase you need access to a credit card, meaning it takes someone over 18 to buy the loot box for a minor. I feel like this is the loophole that stops it from being technically illegal. I haven't watched the whole video so idk if you covered this. Regardless, it was the first thing that came to my mind when considering how they could possibly defend loot boxes.
ExpNinja Games nothing stopping a minor from stealing a parent or older siblings credit/debt card though as Mack mentioned, it's an extreme case yes but I'm sure it's something that's happens, also there is a situation where a parent is paying for a online subscription like Xbox gold or ps plus all the child needs to know is 3 last digits of security number as the card details or saved on the console
I know what you mean, but in a court of law I think the game company can easily pin the blame on the parents. But yea, in the real world, it's probably very easy for a kid to make those charges without a parent knowing.
The reason it's not considered gambling by law is that you don't HAVE to pay money. It's the same reason when you see these competitions on the television where you send a £2.50 text message to enter - it says in little letters at the bottom of the screen that you can go to a website and enter for free. It's the same reason you can pick up a crisp packet with a competition on it and find a little box on the back that says 'no purchase necessary' with a website that allows you to enter for free. It's only gambling by law if you HAVE to pay money. The fact that you can obtain all the loot boxes and all the other stuff without paying, i.e. by grinding them out, absolves the developer of all legal responsibility and, you can bet your bottom dollar (pun intended), in their minds all moral responsibility as well.
Mack, this is a super smart observation and an incredibly valuable video. Ive watched a lot of your videos and this is one of the most important. This is the kind of discussion and commentary that is completely lacking. Attests to how essential your perspective is. Keep it up. I've been pc gaming since the 80s and the overall regression in design is just appalling. As upsetting as these observations are, it is essential that you are pointing it out, pretty much singlehandedly.
Very good point Mac. I hate this insipid gambling culture that has incepted mainstream culture in recent years. Gambling companies have tried to define and disguise gambling under the description of 'gaming'. Since gaming and gambling can be both be viewed as leisure pursuits they both come under the increasing and developing scope of commodification strategies.This has the effect of gambling marketing strategies being used to sell games and gaming marketing strategies being used to sell gambling. It's basically shite Mac!
The problem is is that they wouldn't do it if it didn't make money. All we have to do is say no, were not buying these crates and they go away. As it is now the problem is just going to get worse. Imagine an RPG where you can't level past 10 until you unlock it in a box. They will literally keep carving out pieces of the game to sell to you later as long as you keep paying for it. Its the old free to play model that was so successful in free to play games selling cosmetics and power ups and the gaming executives said well lets just use that for our AAA $60 games as well and see if they pay us anyway. And we did so now its everywhere. And its terrible.
Watching this video made me realize you re the only youtuber that actually understands how the gaming world works ... everyone is getting hyped over shit stuff what is wrong with everybody ... i myself too was guilty of stuff like this before .. buying skins and stuff ... i feel shit lol
You go to the casino and spend $20 and try to turn it into a profit, sometimes you win sometimes you loose. You spend $20 on loot boxes and try and get that bonus card / skin, sometimes you get that item and other times you get a duplicate. So yes - I agree loot boxes is gambling or at least version of it. When developers put in items from loot boxes that can use real life cash to purchase items to swing the battle in your favour is just dog shit lazy and plain wrong. I'm more then happy to pay $$ for a skin I know I'll get but to gamble $$ on boxes for multiplayer enhanced items, nope.
The gambling commissions view is the buyer knows what they are buying.It's classed as a purchase despite the element of chance in the purchase. It is viewed as a purchase because the item you get has no monetary value....How they then level this argument when you look at CSGO's crate system,the market steam facilitates to give the items value and then the gambling sub culture that has grown around these items beats me but hey what do i know about anything.
Thats why i dont buy any games that have premium passes and DLC that costs more than the original game. Mack you can say what you want about Witcher 3s gameplay but their business model was brilliant. You get the full game with a lot of free DLC and then there are expansions at an reasonable price.
I'm ok with this in free games. I'm ok with this in CSGO (It's a cheap game, it's aesthetic only, completely optional and it arguably made the game relevant). But it's inexcusable in a AAA £60+ game, which probably isn't complete to start with.
Its because you still get something out of it, so they call it not gambling also because generally you cant really label a price on whatever comes out so what exactly do you lose? its very relative. You're not the first to wonder and i still agree its gambling.
The problem in something like Star Wars Battlefront (The re-boot) is even deeper than just paying to be objectively better (God, why did they think having *objective* upgrades hidden behind loot-boxes was a good idea?). The balancing in a game that has stuff like this is already off kilter, even if you have to play & grind to earn them instead of paying. So many gamers give a pass to games that screw over newer or average players because "Oh, it's not pay 2 win! You have to grind to be over-powered!" Star Wars Battlefront 1 (Re-boot) had objectively better weapons, items & upgrades that could crush every other player in the game, all of which were locked away by exorbitantly high level caps & credit requirements. Newbies & average Joe's have to be lucky enough to occasionally take you out, or take a year of being destroyed by long-time players to grind their way to those items too. *Paying* to be over-powered is merely the shit cherry on the shit cake when it comes to poorly designed online experiences.
It's actually depressing watching this video because it's true, the gaming market is plagued with "loot crates" and the worst part is is that people genuinely defend them. Hell, look at people doing loot crate openings on the CoD games, throwing hundreds of Dollars for one item or so. And this is what mainstream gaming is devolving into, Micro-transactions and random loot boxes...
Here is the catch. As far as I know all of the games that feature excessive violence (such as killing with bullets) are rated 18+, so as far as gambling argument goes, I agree, but it's not against the law.
I think people just have to change things with our wallets. If people keep buying these triple A titles with greedy practices then this will only get worse. Also they need to do this cus some games cost so much to make now, but people keep buying ones that cost hundreds of millions to make (other option is these games costing £70/$100 outright). So this is inevitable!
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Guys there is a petition to sign if you agree with this, lets get this debated in Parliament. petition.parliament.uk/petitions/201300
Thanks Mack for providing a way for us to take some kind of action.
I keep asking this question and have no idea how it's not been taken further thus far!
holy shit ! I haven't even thought about this !!! so fucking true
P.S. maybe it's bc I'm not a gambler XD
Worth A Buy I was just going to bring this to your attention Mack, I'm glad you've seen it. Hopefully we can get something done about this
I have been after a Petition like that for *months* , thanks for the link Mack, signing it now!
PS, *Major* Kudos to the Creator for Mentioning Vulnerable Adults as well as Children, as it is the Vulnerable Adults, as I am one Myself, I am most Concerned about!
yes.
I just saw an ad for Wolfenstein 2: The New Colossus and it had this weird symbol in it.
Silent Protagonist you also saw the pedo bear sticker?
EmperorJew good point
Great comment :D
No, that ad must've been targeted specifically at you. This one is far more sinister.
Yes, it is gambling.
For me 2017 looks like the year when I give up buying AAA games and I am quite happy with this decision. So far I have bought Hellblade, Cuphead and I am looking forward to Kingdom Come Deliverance. I think the future of gaming lies with these smaller independent studios who are trying to make high quality games - Ninja Theory,Warhorse Studios etc. As for the big guys maybe I will look into these once the price drops to a few $s etc. Maybe.
Can wait to play Kingdom Come
I would personally recommend Darkwood & especially Exanima.
Yeah Darkwood is free from the developers, even made a video talking about it. But I am too scared to play it. I haven't heard of Exanima, will have a look what its about. Thanks
Just checked Exanima on steam. Looks really good, a lot of people praising the combat. Added to wishlist. Also I am looking at ELEX - rpg from the makers of gothic, also looks very appealing.
Just remember when you play Exanima to really give it a chance. Keep in mind it's still in development and that the combat is unique. If you have an open mind and put enough time into it you'll enjoy it. If you're scared of Darkwood though you may be a little scared of Exanima as well. Both are dark and atmospheric.
This is how stupid the gaming industry is. People are actually spending money to skip content. Pay $60 for the game, then pay even more to not play all of it. Fucking hilarious and if they're stupid enough to pay it then let them.
yeah but devs are starting to make the early parts of games even more of a grind to force you in to micro transactions, look at nba 2018. its starting to effect us all as consumers
exactly. it's affecting design of games now. it's purposefully harder in a way that is appealing to skip over because you have to pay them to skip. this reinforces them to make that part to want to be skippable or more grinding by design.
This rubbish should be illegal
As Mack pointed out, it technically is illegal under current gambling laws.
Because it's a form of gambling aimed at under 18s.
Really technically? Is it or not?
It technically is according to the law yet they still get away with it, meaning in practice it's not.
Kalsa, ease a little on the Kool-Ayn juice, not swindling people should be part of your "nap rules".
Here is a simple way of telling if something is gambling.
Does it require money to play?
Do you have a statistical chance of winning something?
Do you lose money or in-game credits bought with money when you lose a roll or don't win anything? If yes to all three questions, its gambling.
One thing what these companies do is they give you something like lets say diamonds/gold etc for real money to obscure the real value of loot boxses etc. So it is kinda worst than just gambling.
You don't need the third thing for something to be gambling. Not getting what you were rolling the dice for, also counts as losing within context of gambling. It doesn't matter you get a guaranteed reward. Keep in mind this random generation of rewards is a completely different situation than just picking the exact content you want and buying that directly. The gambling element in this is super obvious.
It doesn't always apply in video games. It is also goes for collectables too, such as LEGO Minifigure Polybags. :(
Kinder Eggs are gambling.
With Kinder Eggs you get something you want, the chocolate.
TBH though, I don't think loot crates are gambling but they're close to the line.
Edit: Either way, it's shitty behaviour, especially PTW.
the fact this video is 4 years old ! and is only now starting to get traction in parliment is mind blowing to me.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssss.
Y.
Can you give us a longer and longest answer, please?
Im stealing this joke.
Great video Mack. Straight to the heart of the issue, pulling no punches, and entertaining with it. Thanks.
If someone were to build a casino across the street from a middle school and put advertisements all around the school to encourage kids to go after school and play slots for pokemon cards(that's what was popular when I was in middle school, what are kids into now a days?), you can be damn sure there would be a riot. So now I ask you, how is this practice any different?
Well put.
Lawmakers are the same people who think video games contribute to shootings.
They have places like this near middle schools all over the world (although less and less these days). They're called arcades.
CarRamrod Gambling is prety much 2p slot machines now days
The devs really make the opening animations for the loot crates in games look real good.
Finally people are talking about this in the right way, thank you! Minors, and all players, are being taken advantage of. You may never get what you're looking for even if you don't care about the "whole experience."
Totally agree, and I am glad that someone is honest enough to call greedy people for what they are.
The only fella keeping it real...I salute you good sir...im an old git from speccy days
5:26 True wisdom right there. Life should never be about the destination. It should be about the journey. Experience and make the most of every moment. Worry not about the past nor future.
It is absolutely gambling, my brother bought £800 of Fifa coins in 2015 from my mums card. He as a kid was set in the mindset of gambling and it actually is disgusting that the government hasn't stopped this it's illegal!
Matt Cash wow. I agree. Micro transaction in games should be banned all together. The next best thing is they put an age restriction and a cap of £20 on in game purchases. That wouldnt satisfy me buy its better than what it is now. Its attrocious that people spend more money in micro transactions than the actual price of the game.
It's been 2 years and we are still pissed off at him. That bank statement day was messy as fuck!
Abbas Khan Didn’t realize you were FORCED to pay for microtransactions. Last I checked it was a choice.
J Cole you capitalized the word ''forced'' as though I used that word. I dont know if you underatand the moral of the story which is kids will be exploited by greedy developers so long as developers are allowed to exploit them with no consequences. Nobody can stop little billy from nickin his moms credit card to go on a shopping spree over hyped up pixels and minor upgrades. Kids will be kids. The blame goes to the developers and shame on you for defending this practice that does nothing to help the gaming industry and does everything to ruin it
I really like your commentary, always saying the truth with a flair of humor.
When I played WOW I worked a 40 hour week but still managed to put in 70 hours a week on WOW.
I remember as a kid being able to buy "grab bags" at the store. You didn't know what was going to be inside. Could be candy or a toy or some stupid gadget. The thing that made it NOT gambling was that you always got something for your money. To be gambling you have to be able to lose completely. If you get something for your money then you bought an item blind. The thing I find objectionable is that you have no ability to buy the thing on its own so you are forced to buy the loot crates. What should happen is that you have all the items separately purchasable (maybe for a slightly higher price) and then have the loot crates on the side.
This is easily one of your best videos Mack! Keep fighting the good fight. You got my Patreon support for the long haul!
The difficulty argument is absolutly disgusting!
Having to pay to play one easy mode? Seroiusly?!
Or in other Words, having to pay to not play the game. Ugh.
''There is no destination as much as the journey''
They completetely forgett that games are a media to be enjoyed, not just consumed.
Like who the hell pays to see a Movie then leaves the cinema during the intro and pays some random dude to give a quik recap of what the Movie was about?
oh, you beat me to it
And you know why they want to to breeze through the game ? Because they want to be able to sell another game in 6 months.
They make the game huge to tick the "open world" box on the marketing spreadsheet, but they really want you to be done with it in 2 months top.
Lys Is that saracsm or do you actually disagree with me?
Difficult to say in text.
Yup! Just like those $0.25 machines that would spit out little toys in a plastic bubble that could usually be found @ grocery stores back in the day. Training us from young lol
Wish I could like this video more than once. Great vid Mack!
You're so right about EA games in the past, you used to see the logo come up or on the box and you were confident that it's gonna be a good game. It's so depressing that now it's the complete opposite, just BUYING games is a complete gamble especially from EA and other big publishers.
They started by selling us the dlc, then dlc in pieces, then random drops for dlc. The next mode is games as a subscription, instead of paying $60 you will pay a small montly fee, or better yet, subscribe to the developer. Then industry crash
As always Mac you are spot on. Some people still argue that it's not gambling. Ruining games. If this becomes industry standard in single player games I will quit gaming. Sadly we know it eventually will.
Thanks Mack for pointing it out. I feel that nobody actually talks about this problem. Seems to me like it all started with the mobile games and after they saw that this is a hell of a market, they did the same with AAA games. I miss the old times...
Yes it is about the journey not the destination. I find it interesting though how some people in mmo's rush to the end then complain there is no end game.
These loot boxes/loot creates in these games makes me lose any interest I may of had to buying the game in the first place.
Something worth noting about the earning of crates in Battlefront 2 in game is the amount of credits earned is locked at a cap in the beta, it was the same in the alpha but you always earned 700credits a match so got everything pretty quickly, I'm pretty sure not certain that it's much slower in the beta due to EA/DICE wanting people to play the beta longer and not have everything unlocked so quickly and I also believe reading that credits earned in matches at release will have a minimum amount that increases depending on your score similar to the first. While the star card part is pretty much pay2win the cosmetics was a good choice and hopefully they might actually listen to people and make the crates just contain currency and cosmetics at most but I am doubtful.
I remember the good old days. Buy street fighter 2, play street fighter 2. Buy mario kart, play mario kart. Goodbye gaming.
I used to laugh when religious people say "Video games are from the devil", maybe they are right now.
I love your rants. And this one is spot frickin' on! It's the journey, that's why we play, to have fun.
Hey Mack have you got a review copy yet ? Seriously stuff wb if they haven't. Your one of the only honest reviewers i trust.
Alot of people dont know this but Its actually pronounced electronic farts....just a lil fun fact guys hilarious video Mack!!!
This was one of the best videos I've seen so far on the subject. Thank you!!
its gambling, it should be treated as such so it should fall under the laws
I work 40 hours a week and I have completed many many games, on GTA Alone of which I have never purchased Microtransactions I have everything Online like 90 days played and that is over 4 years still enjoying the game, hell I have been playing some games for over a year now. Still playing them.
Gaming is like a roller coaster. It's the ride that's fun, not reaching the end.
And Valve is the main peddler of these gambling for kids products, directly profiting off it.
Thanks for an extremely important video.
Its that kind of players that Never truly will appreciate skyrim. I have had the game for a long time and I just like to explore the world and sometimes when I get to a town I can help them if I want. I love that game even if I don't play it all the time.
I was wondering the exact thing about a week or so ago. Because 100% agreed about what gambling is and how loot crates are definitely classified as gambling and yeah it against the law.
I work 40 hours a week, spend a couple hours on a game during the weekend, but never felt like buying crates with actual money. One reason is I mostly buy games that don't have them in the first place and the 2nd is that I like to enjoy the game, not pay extra to skip most of it.
Whilst this isn't do to with loot boxes, this was something I learned about slots months ago, so I thought I'd share. In slots, when you almost win, it's actually an illusion. You weren't close at all. It's DESIGNED to make you think you were close. It's called the Near-Miss Effect (source: vegasclick.com/games/slots/how-they-work, search "illusion"). Also watch George Carlin make fun of the term "near-miss": th-cam.com/video/zDKdvTecYAM/w-d-xo.html. This is also interesting because CSGO has a slot-like machine in its game when you open containers. Now I don't know if CSGO works the same way, so if someone knows, please let me know. Still, it's something good to be aware of.
Anyway to answer your question "Is Buying Loot Boxes Gambling?"
www.dictionary.com/browse/gambling probably says it the best:
"2.
to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance:"
Bravo, Mack. Very nice arguing and a real eye-opener.
Loot crates remind me of the old school cheat codes from magazines from the days of old....
He has a point. Some people have busy lives and may not finish the game if it takes 60 hours. There is nothing wrong with giving them a choice to speed things up.
I remember when I spent 120 pound on microtransactions for FIFA 14 as a 13 year old...glad to say it's been 2 years since I've done anything of the sorts
I agree with everything you're saying apart from it being restricted gambling. Caveat: I am no lawyer and I'm looking at from MWR and BF1 because I have no interest in Destiny or SWBF2 so I don't know the in-game details of those two. Yes, it's gambling technically, but there's no real world risk. What do you risk by buying loot crates? You buy the opportunity to get something you can't use real-world. Anything you get is of no sale-value, real world. Seems to me your real problem is with in-game microtransactions and gaming business models which I have a problem with as well
Obviously, microtransactions are bad, especially in a sixty dollar game. However, I would rather take loot crates than paid map DLC's as at least loot crates do not split the community. Of course, no microtransactions is better than some microtransactions, but compared to other EA/ Dice games, loot boxes are a step in the right direction.
Check out another bizarre aspect of the main stream influencing gaming in the wake of the release of Cuphead; the debate of whether or not games should come with a "skip difficult parts" button and the emotional harm difficult games do to the casual crowd when they encounter fail states...
What boggles my mind is that somebody buys a game and then pays possibly the same amount on top of that just to not play a large portion of that game.
Major game companies should get together and create "The ultimate game". Where companies all come together and contribute to what it is they might be good at! Ubisoft can make the trailer and the animations. CD PROJEKT RED can create the side quest narratives. Bethesda can create the open world. Bioware can write the story. And EA can make the microtransactions!
Interesting point of view.. perhaps these things in gaming should be incorporated into actual gambling laws. That would be fucking hilarious, mess up the greedy cunts' business models
in time it will, and I think its China where is already is.
Very valid point Mack! Let us know when they respond!
Why does this channel only have 144k subscribers? It should be 1.4mil at least. This just shows the mentality of the population, truthers are getting rare.
this shit need to go viral....i am telling you.
Great video as always: powerful message.
The current state of gaming is appalling. Gambling/ "Ultimate" editions are killing it for me.
LOL! Player's choice. I'm going to make a video game where every single action requires a real life money transaction. Good player choice right?
I hope star wars 2 will keep their current loot crates... that will bring alot of attention to this issue and we might finally see some change
The argument by that WB game designer really fits together with the mentality in many gamers today it seems: Beating the game as fast as you can after playing/beginning it as fast as you can, ergo pre-ordering it.
Is it some sort of unresistable desire for many to be "amongst the first" who take bragging rights on steam or the internetz or simply to know it for themselves?
Or is it part of the hype machine, so that gamers feel the necessity to buy and play a game during its biggest "hype-phase" because they think or feel the game is better or more enjoyable in that short time period compared to when noone else gives a damn anymore?
Either way, it shows how childish and shallow gaming experience seems to be/have become for many. Something that the big companies can now exploit after they helped to cultivate it with providing said inferior gaming expierences only based on flashy/"badass" trailers and graphics.
Yes, you pay real money in the hopes of getting something desirable at the risk of getting something unwanted.
With a kinder egg at least you still have the chocolate but with loot boxes the core idea is to pay money to have a 1 in nnnnnn chance of getting an item better than what others (paying the same money) end up with.
When loot boxes are the only acquisition method for gameplay related items they then also become direct exploitation of the player base.
That's ignoring the fact that companies are willingly inhibiting the standard gameplay experience of the core title to "encourage" people to pay money to progress.
IMO digital gambling systems should be HEAVILY regulated and all statistics and affected systems should have all relevant numbers front and centre to prevent back-room fiddling with the numbers.
Hey Mack, I completely agree with you on every point here and I'm sick of these business practices. But I'm curious, what is your opinion when it comes to card packs in card games? Similar to Hearthstone?
Preview of Destiny 2 and Star wars Battlefront 2 loot creates. Love you Mack
YES they are and fifa is gambling now all aimed at children and its a shite state of affairs
I agree,the whole "NepentheZ" story goes to show how these loot crates/packs/boxes/whatever you call them can be exploited and do actually have a value to someone. Google "NepentheZ" for those that don't know the whole story
Basically the guy was...sorry still is a youtuber who used his channels to promote his own Fifa gambling site that fleeced kids of their money.He was found guilty of promoting under age gambling
What did youtube do when he was found guilty?...yep nothing he wasn't thrown off for using their platform for his illegal activity.
When I first played WoW (My first MMORPG) I was so worried about rushing the content I went and made a post on the forums asking if there was a way to turn off rested XP. gamers are so different now
i'm a hundred percent behind you , Mac; you're right about this practice being nauseous inducing. I'll just wait for those games to be on sales for 3 quid or so, my own way to tell them to fuck off. Keep sounding the alarm, man, you're expressing the silent voice of the "go fuck yourselves big companies" minority!
Why wait? Just pirate it. They make their money in the first week.
I'm proud to say that I've never bought any in-game purchases be it on PC, Xbox, mobile whatever. If I've bought a game, I don't expect to have to by anything to actually play it. Yes I have bought DLC but in those cases, it was only extra missions not extra guns or new clothes etc and to be honest, nowdays, I just wait for Game of the Year an other such versions to get the DLC included in the price of the game.
I don't care because I don't partake in this. And besides - as a misanthrope I just have a fucking good laugh at those that do, really makes my day. Thanks Mack.
Without watching it all.... yes, it is. It is like you would buy a lottery ticket.
Hearthstone for example.. you can buy 50 packs when the new addon comes out..the chances that you hit the cards that you need for the meta are almost zero.
yes mac mate you speak alot of sense love your rants so true they have ruined games today i remember the good old days with bully, gta sa, gears of war 1, oblivion, the warriors...... and many more they just dont make good games like this anymore its all about multiplayer loot boxed games chucked in with a shooter it gets boring very quickly
One of the reasons for years that Wow put off allowing a gold purchasing system was (allegedly) the concern that it would violate gambling laws in certain countries (despite Eve doing it for years). I guess companies DGAF now.
Mack. I 100% agree with everything you said. imo, yes, it's even WORSE than gambling because a large portion of the target audience for this crap is children. AND...even if kids were "gambling for real" they'd have a chance for ACTUAL MONETARY GAIN. This is worse because they basically take the money from Mommy's credit card and give the kid, 99% of the time, in-game shit. No chance to even WIN the money BACK! Sickening. Pure "monetary loss". It should be illegal---> this "RNG crap in games". OMG...look at Black Desert Online with their crap they've been pulling since launch with RNG gear upgrades! OMG!
time is not an excuse when they use to have cheat codes for free like in gta4.
Yea those where also my thoughts, in the olden day we used cheats to accomplish that.
Absolutely, spot on.
Interesting... All games are basically gambling sites but as long they don´t look like a casino site it is all good... this realy grinds my gears.
For BF2, I can understand why they've added crates. The crates don't really make it easier for people in the game and tehy're pretty easy to get for free. Also, because there is no DLC/Season Pass, they need a way to make money after launch.
I agree with you Mack, HOWEVER...technically to make a purchase you need access to a credit card, meaning it takes someone over 18 to buy the loot box for a minor. I feel like this is the loophole that stops it from being technically illegal. I haven't watched the whole video so idk if you covered this. Regardless, it was the first thing that came to my mind when considering how they could possibly defend loot boxes.
ExpNinja Games nothing stopping a minor from stealing a parent or older siblings credit/debt card though as Mack mentioned, it's an extreme case yes but I'm sure it's something that's happens, also there is a situation where a parent is paying for a online subscription like Xbox gold or ps plus all the child needs to know is 3 last digits of security number as the card details or saved on the console
I know what you mean, but in a court of law I think the game company can easily pin the blame on the parents. But yea, in the real world, it's probably very easy for a kid to make those charges without a parent knowing.
You're the hero we don't deserve, Love ya Mack.
The reason it's not considered gambling by law is that you don't HAVE to pay money.
It's the same reason when you see these competitions on the television where you send a £2.50 text message to enter - it says in little letters at the bottom of the screen that you can go to a website and enter for free.
It's the same reason you can pick up a crisp packet with a competition on it and find a little box on the back that says 'no purchase necessary' with a website that allows you to enter for free.
It's only gambling by law if you HAVE to pay money. The fact that you can obtain all the loot boxes and all the other stuff without paying, i.e. by grinding them out, absolves the developer of all legal responsibility and, you can bet your bottom dollar (pun intended), in their minds all moral responsibility as well.
you could say that quarter machines with one good toy in them and lots of crap is the same! But i still agree with you. Just interesting.
Mack, this is a super smart observation and an incredibly valuable video. Ive watched a lot of your videos and this is one of the most important. This is the kind of discussion and commentary that is completely lacking. Attests to how essential your perspective is. Keep it up. I've been pc gaming since the 80s and the overall regression in design is just appalling. As upsetting as these observations are, it is essential that you are pointing it out, pretty much singlehandedly.
Very good point Mac. I hate this insipid gambling culture that has incepted mainstream culture in recent years. Gambling companies have tried to define and disguise gambling under the description of 'gaming'. Since gaming and gambling can be both be viewed as leisure pursuits they both come under the increasing and developing scope of commodification strategies.This has the effect of gambling marketing strategies being used to sell games and gaming marketing strategies being used to sell gambling. It's basically shite Mac!
everytime he rings that bell you have to drink a shot :)
Sjors Bakker you killed my brother...
ammm my condolence comarad it was never my intent to kill him, but you could stop him right!?!
The problem is is that they wouldn't do it if it didn't make money. All we have to do is say no, were not buying these crates and they go away. As it is now the problem is just going to get worse. Imagine an RPG where you can't level past 10 until you unlock it in a box. They will literally keep carving out pieces of the game to sell to you later as long as you keep paying for it. Its the old free to play model that was so successful in free to play games selling cosmetics and power ups and the gaming executives said well lets just use that for our AAA $60 games as well and see if they pay us anyway. And we did so now its everywhere. And its terrible.
However there's a guarantee to get a promised discribed quality item. While traditional gambling was either win or lose.
Watching this video made me realize you re the only youtuber that actually understands how the gaming world works ... everyone is getting hyped over shit stuff what is wrong with everybody ... i myself too was guilty of stuff like this before .. buying skins and stuff ... i feel shit lol
You go to the casino and spend $20 and try to turn it into a profit, sometimes you win sometimes you loose. You spend $20 on loot boxes and try and get that bonus card / skin, sometimes you get that item and other times you get a duplicate.
So yes - I agree loot boxes is gambling or at least version of it.
When developers put in items from loot boxes that can use real life cash to purchase items to swing the battle in your favour is just dog shit lazy and plain wrong.
I'm more then happy to pay $$ for a skin I know I'll get but to gamble $$ on boxes for multiplayer enhanced items, nope.
its gambiling because you are trying to get the exact item that you want by throwing money.
So true about EA going from auto-buy to curse word.
The gambling commissions view is the buyer knows what they are buying.It's classed as a purchase despite the element of chance in the purchase. It is viewed as a purchase because the item you get has no monetary value....How they then level this argument when you look at CSGO's crate system,the market steam facilitates to give the items value and then the gambling sub culture that has grown around these items beats me but hey what do i know about anything.
Thats why i dont buy any games that have premium passes and DLC that costs more than the original game. Mack you can say what you want about Witcher 3s gameplay but their business model was brilliant. You get the full game with a lot of free DLC and then there are expansions at an reasonable price.
I'm ok with this in free games. I'm ok with this in CSGO (It's a cheap game, it's aesthetic only, completely optional and it arguably made the game relevant). But it's inexcusable in a AAA £60+ game, which probably isn't complete to start with.
Its because you still get something out of it, so they call it not gambling also because generally you cant really label a price on whatever comes out so what exactly do you lose? its very relative.
You're not the first to wonder and i still agree its gambling.
The problem in something like Star Wars Battlefront (The re-boot) is even deeper than just paying to be objectively better (God, why did they think having *objective* upgrades hidden behind loot-boxes was a good idea?). The balancing in a game that has stuff like this is already off kilter, even if you have to play & grind to earn them instead of paying. So many gamers give a pass to games that screw over newer or average players because "Oh, it's not pay 2 win! You have to grind to be over-powered!"
Star Wars Battlefront 1 (Re-boot) had objectively better weapons, items & upgrades that could crush every other player in the game, all of which were locked away by exorbitantly high level caps & credit requirements. Newbies & average Joe's have to be lucky enough to occasionally take you out, or take a year of being destroyed by long-time players to grind their way to those items too. *Paying* to be over-powered is merely the shit cherry on the shit cake when it comes to poorly designed online experiences.
It's actually depressing watching this video because it's true, the gaming market is plagued with "loot crates" and the worst part is is that people genuinely defend them. Hell, look at people doing loot crate openings on the CoD games, throwing hundreds of Dollars for one item or so. And this is what mainstream gaming is devolving into, Micro-transactions and random loot boxes...
Here is the catch. As far as I know all of the games that feature excessive violence (such as killing with bullets) are rated 18+, so as far as gambling argument goes, I agree, but it's not against the law.
I think people just have to change things with our wallets. If people keep buying these triple A titles with greedy practices then this will only get worse. Also they need to do this cus some games cost so much to make now, but people keep buying ones that cost hundreds of millions to make (other option is these games costing £70/$100 outright). So this is inevitable!
MACK ROCKS!
thank you SO much for mentioning pandemic... they were my childhood.
Im trying to figure put if the description misspelling is on purpose...
I got a betfair casino ad on this vid lol.