Using Sonoff mini R2 without neutral wire
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2024
- I found a way to install a sonoff mini without a neutral wire, behind the light switch. Unlike my previous sonoff hack, this requires no soldering. it's a very simple experimental circuit that I think requires further investigation.
You can get the Sonoff MINIR2 here itead.cc/ref/169/ and use my coupon at the checkout for a 10% discount MYPROJECTBSONOFF
If you would like support me😉😁
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what do you think @bigclivedotcom
00:00 Intro
01:52 Demonstrating the circuit working without neutral
02:30 Circuit diagram of sonoff mini "no neutral" operation
02:49 Building the basic no solder version of the circuit
07:56 Wire everything up to power up and test the circuit
10:14 Putting the Sonoff mini behind the light switch box
11:22 Adding short circuit/ overcurrent protection & inrush current limiting
12:19 Add some flexible wires and heat shrink tubing, to make a better job of it
12:56 Using an old-style incandescent light bulb as a current limiter, to safely test your circuit
14:42 Don't let the magic smoke escape from your circuit
15:15 Explanation of how the circuit works without a neutral wire
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best hack ever i have see on TH-cam !! Great and thy for so detailed instruction !!!
merry christmas
What an amazing tip and detailed demonstration here, thank you very much for this video.
Have to say this is one of the most useful video I have seen in reference of a No neutral.
I just follow your directions and hook up a mini2. Works like a charm!!!.
I did not have in hand the 10uF 400V, instead I used a 473k 250V X-rated capacitor and works perfectly. My country voltage is 120V @60Htz.
This method of yours might be "the solution" to a very big headache for most of us trying to get smart devices up and running with the old electrical installations at home.
Once again, thank you very much!!!!
It's great that you got it working 😉👍. I haven't tried the circuit on 120v, so it's nice that you could verify it working on 120v.
Experimenting with different capacitor values is also interesting.
You can try my other "no neutral" circuit for the mini if you like. It allows you to put the sonoff mini at the light fixture itself, if you don't have space behind the light switch. th-cam.com/video/x7Q8AS238pY/w-d-xo.html
Hello Luis, I also live in the usa, if I may ask what diodes did you use. Thank you, Mr. Robert Foulke .
Good job! It helps me. Thanks for the value of the capacitor and the diodes type and the final explanation. Great!
From France.
That's really clever. I normally use sonoff on LED strips under counters etc and not on wall switches but I'm sure this trick can have many applications . Well thought out.
Great hack!
I'm in the process of rewiring my house, so it will be easier for me to just provide a neutral at the light switches, but if I wasn't this would have been the perfect retrofit solution.
Highly Informative video, Thank you
Amazing thanks for uploading
I just did this in my house and it works flawlessly even without the cap as there is no flicker on LEDs at all
I am using this for smart switches that needed neutral, but this is perfect!
Thank you! I'm glad it worked, and maybe this makes it just a little bit easier for you.😉👍
Brilliant ! Tks for sharing
Great video, great circuit! I have successfully used the same schema to power Sonoff T2EU1C smart switch. Thanks a lot!
This also works with the multi gang versions like the T2EU2C and T2EU3C. You only need the bypass circuit for just one of the output channels ! All other channels are connected as normal. th-cam.com/video/8h29-0rpQJo/w-d-xo.html
The best No Neutral explanation 😁
Thank you 😊. But this circuit is my own technique, to achieve "no-natural required" for a smart switch. All the other systems work in a very different way.😉
Oooh, friend, you're cool! Thank you! 👍🔥
Great idea! No need to alter the existing wiring. The worst-case scenario I can imagine is if the diode were to short-circuit otherwise it’s one less of a wire.
I have a updated version of this circuit with much bigger diodes, to make a more robust version. th-cam.com/video/mznx0xoF8Ck/w-d-xo.html
Great video....thank you
Works great! Thanks!
Yes it's a good little hack😉👍
Amazing 🙏🏾 bless you
Great video! Really well explained and clear. How is the longevity of the components used? Any limitations? Diodes/capacitors?
It should last for a long time. The diodes are rated for 1 amp and the led bulb just draws milliamps. It's just the initial inrush current of the capacitor charging up, but a fusible resistor will act as a inrush limiter. You could increase the size of the diodes and cap, if you need more current. The circuit will work with most, but not all LED bulbs. Some led bulbs don't like DC. Test the bulb with a diode and cap to see if it will be suitable.
U R THE BEST
Good job!!
Quick question: Do you have any idea how long this additional circuit works?
The circuit from this video is still going strong 😉. It's up to people like you watching the video, to report back on any problems that you might encounter. And share them with us in the comments. It's good to know of any improvements that people might have made as well. I personally think the circuit is pretty solid 👍. As with most electronic circuits, the electrolytic capacitors are always the weakest link. That's why the fusible resistor, is quite important for safety. It also helps to prolong the life of the capacitor, by limiting Inrush current to it.
Thanks!
Thank you very much. I appreciate it. 😉👍
Great video! Thanks for explaining it so clearly, defs a good solve for RSA households which are typically not wired with a neutral in the box. I have the Sonoff ZBMINI-L which works great but then loses its connection to the hub after about 3 days for some reason... was pulling my hair out!
Question though: I've got a series of LED lights along with a 60W LED spotlight on this circuit... would I just connect the diodes at the first light in the series?
I really only designed this circuit, with LED light bulbs in mind. But I guess you could use bigger diodes and increase the capacitor size. You could also have capacitor & diodes, for each of the different types of lamps. It will require some experimentation, but it is possible.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Thanks man, I'll set up something and let you know how it goes;-)
I have as a feature light bulb in series for one socket on my work desk in my workshop to test electronics for faults. just like you described.
It's so simple and incredibly useful. But it's becoming harder to get hold of incandescent light bulbs. I only use them to illuminate my built-in barbecue, as they can handle heat well and for testing electronic equipment.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel In my country Led lights are only about 30% in use. We can buy it in any shop. Also there is a trick, you must use different power light bulb for different power equipment. U can't use only one value for all. For example if you use 40w and 60w bulbs in series one will be dimmed. Our electricians back in time use 2 light bulbs same watts in series to check different phase lines. if it glow strong that mean that it is two different phases. Nice trick.
Very interesting, thank you. What if we want to connect to several bulbs in parallel? do every bulb need the capacitor+diode? or it can be put close to the neutral ?
In theory one "capacitor diode bypass" could feed multiple led bulbs in parallel. You could use bigger diodes and capacitor for more current. But I think there is less chance of making a mistake with polarity, if each LED bulb has its own "diodes capacitor bypass" circuit.
Thank you, you know your stuff! I always learn from videos like this, cheers! Also tks for muting😀 GOOGLE or ALEXA, lol, some don't and it's a pain.
Happy to help share knowledge 😉👍. I need more subscribers like you to grow my little channel. It keeps me motivated to make more cool videos.
For cheap Aubess smart switch it is needed to reverse polarity of all diodes. Just do a try to power the switch with diode in neutral line, note working and non-working polarity of diode, and do all others accordingly. Thanks to author of this great idea!
I really appreciate you testing other devices with this circuit hack. Using the diode in this way to verify the polarity, Is exactly what I did on the mini-R2 in the beginning😉. Maybe it's worth making a list of which devices work with this hack, and the polarity of the diodes. Thanks for the feedback, you're doing great work.👍I have tested: sonoff dual-r3, M5-3C, TX-T3, Shelly1, shelly plus 1, and some other ones. The "multi channel switches" only need one bypass on 1 channel, And the other channels output as normal.
Hi, do you mind sharing your wiring diagram for the Aubess?
Just amazing, my Aubess is now working, thanks for the tip mate!
@@alvarooliveira1791please can you help, I couldn't understand the tip. How did you do that?
@@anfasmuhammad4000 Just reversed all diodes' polarity for the Aubess and it did work just fine.
excellent video @MyProjectBox !!!!
My installation is 110v, can I use a 3.3uf capacitor?
Tks
You could try the 3.3uf capacitor, but you might get some flickering🤔, it all depends on the type of led bulb used (how the LED driver is constructed inside the bulb). I would recommend a 15uf capacitor for your 110V. Also a 5ohm (1W) fusible resistor is recommended.
Great sharing. Can you please explain whether a 10 ohm fusible resistor and 10uF capacitor is suitable for both 110V and 240V systems? Additionally, is there an easy method for determining the appropriate selection (simple calculation) of fusible resistor and capacitor?
The circuit has been verified to work with 110V by one of my viewers. The Value of the fusible resistor is not critical. The 10uF capacitor should be OK for most LED bulbs, but the value is load dependent. If you experience some flicking with your led bulb, You could try using a different brand of lamp. Or you could try increasing the value of the capacitor. There is no "precise formula" for calculating the value. It all depends on the internal driver circuit of the LED lamp. Some LED bulbs, handle DC ripple better than others(With their Built-in filter capacitor). Very rarely, there are bulbs that won't work on DC. Like I said the circuit is experimental. But with a little bit of experimentation it works great!
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Nice explanation. Thanks
Amazing! Do you know if this will work with dimming modules?
Unfortunately I don't think you will get good results, but you could experiment to see what happens. I did not design the circuit to be dimmable.
Thanks for the video! Be aware of cheap led bulbs like V-TAC or Hense. They have capacitor in series and they do not work with direct current. If someone fails with this circuit the problem might be in LED bulb. Try different ones.
Yes you are correct. Some older LED bulbs use capacitor dropper driver circuits. This type of led bulb won't work with my circuit. I failed to mention it in this video, but I do mention that in a previous video, that you can test LED bulb compatibility, by putting a diode in series with the bulb. If it lights up it should be OK 👍. See this video th-cam.com/video/x7Q8AS238pY/w-d-xo.html
Tried it at a firends house, and it works perfectly. Thank you so much! BTW, will this method work with 2-way switching?
I've melted my brain 😂 trying to work out 2-way switching with this method. But I have managed to make it work in a different way 😉 here's a link. th-cam.com/video/9hQFFsBkxaU/w-d-xo.html
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Yes, I did see that video, but that circuit is much more complex, it would be easier if this one worked two way somehow...
Would this diode+capacitor trick work when using an incandescent light bulb instead of an LED bulb?
Yes! it will work just fine with a old style incandescent bulb. It's just that LED bulbs are basically all you can get nowadays, and they are much more efficient.
Thanks for the tutorial. I have a switch w/o N which I would like to install zbmini in and keep its router feature. Do you think your electrickery will allow zbmini to preserve the router feature? In the end the diodes are kind of 'stealing' the power from 'halve-phases' right? And being a router is a serious business :) It needs power! I tried the switch with zbmini-L and it works, but zbmini-L doesn't have router feature.
The zbmini looks very similar to the regular sonoff mini, and I think it has a neutral connection, so the internal power supply must be very similar. I haven't tried it, but it should work with my hack. The zbmini-L is designed to work without a neutral, so my hack won't work for that one. If you do try my circuit hack with the zbmini, please let me know if it works 👍😉. I'm currently making a video where I do this hack with a Shelly1. And so far it seems to work great. By the way, your understanding is correct, with the diodes "stealing" the half wave to power the device.
Hi, I'm wondering if you have tested or used the hack and if the router function worked? Thanks.
This is a great video thanks. I have a smartlife 1gang light switch which requires neutral but I don’t have neutral wiring. This hack should work for it too right? Mine has L, L1, L2, L3 and N. Many thanks
Yes it might work well, but I have not personally tested it with that model. People have reported that with some of the tuya switches, all the diodes need their polarity reversed(capacitor polarity aswell). It all depends on how the internal power supply is constructed. Here is my circuit on a 3-gang sonoff switch th-cam.com/video/8h29-0rpQJo/w-d-xo.html
Only one output channel needs my circuit connected to it.
Good morning
I installed a SONOFF Zigbee module without ZMINIL2 neutral on the two-way switch connected to the phase, which allows me to turn off the light in my bed, provided I remember to activate it again in the morning, so that the two back and forths are powered again.
But the problem is that without any other intervention, after restarting the ZBMINIL2, after a while, the ZBMINIL2 "jumps" and I am forced to activate it again, I don't know why. And then everything is fine with the two back and forth. But then it starts again as soon as I activate the ZBMINIL2.
In addition, I wonder if this assembly does not present a danger.
If you have a solution for this problem, I'm interested. Thank you in advance.
Great video! What about SONOFF ZBMINI, would this setup work?
I don't see why it shouldn't work. I haven't tried it yet, but they seem almost identical, apart from the zigbee interface. The SONOFF ZBMINI-L , is the "no neutral" version. The "-L" version, is specifically designed to work without neutral. If you do try it, let me know what the results are 😉👍.
brilliant idea, but what if the lights are connected from multiple lights? whether each lamp must be given a capacitor?
It would be a good idea to use diodes and a capacitor for every light bulb on that switched circuit. But in theory you could use one "bigger capacitor" with diodes, on the first light bulb, fed from the switch. The rest of the light bulbs could then be fed in parallel, from the first bulb.
Awesome. What wattage is your fusible resistor?
At least 1W or more for bigger loads, and If you need to use a larger value capacitor.
I checked that it also works on Sonoff MINIR4 Smart Switch 👍
Yes🙂 thanks I know😉. I'm thinking of doing a video on the "matter" version of the MINI-R4 and my new/improved version of my circuit.
16:11 What if your load actually needs 230V RMS?
(Because you don't want to replace your halogen lamp or neon tube with LEDs)
You could a proximate the 230v rms by using a capacitor value that won't filter most of the ripple out. If you smooth out all the ripple you will have a DC voltage which is the same as the peak of the sinewave, 325V dc. This voltage is the same for full bridge rectified, and half-wave rectified( if smoothed with a capacitor). A LED bulb works internally on 325vdc, so it's fine to feed it that. It's the same for CFL ( Compact fluorescent lamps). The older magnetic ballasts, for florescent tubes, won't work on DC! But the "newer electronic ballasts" for florescent tubes, work just fine on DC (325V)
many thanks for the detailed instruction .... I've tried it and it works fine with a single LED light, but when I try it with a 6 LED Bulbs chandelier the bulbs was flickering a lot, any solution .... thanks again
You could use a bigger capacitor , or a capacitor per led bulb. It might be a good idea to use bigger diodes for the increased current from the bigger capacitor/capacitors (the initial current from charging the capacitor can be quite high). The fusible resistor can be changed to 5ohm 1w, or just put more than one in parallel.
Thanks, great tutorial. I've managed to make my minir2 work per this scheme.
But! Is there a way to do the same for Sonoff DualR3? I'm using a 2in1 switch to control to different groups of lights.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Thank you for prompt response! I'm trying to make dualr3 work per this scheme. First channel works fine. But the second one is either not lighting the bulb or it shuts down the circuit breaker.
I'd be so grateful if you could investigate into this via another video! :)
@@igoryakushchenko2290 if the first channel works, that's a good sign. At least you've done some of the hard testing work already.
I think you are going to require a extra diodes somewhere. If you do want to continue experimenting I recommend test your circuit with a "current limiting lamp" first! That way you will avoid circuit breakers stripping or components blowing up. I think each channel would need its own output diode. And possibly more diodes in a circuit as well. Every LED lamp would have to have its own diode capacitor pairs aswell. I really need some time to think about it. It would be great if it could be done, so thanks for the idea.
YES! It works! I've tried it with a dualR3, and it works perfectly. The good news is that you only need the "bypass circuit" for one output channel only. I will have to do a new video about the dualR3 now😉👍.
You can often still buy filament type bulbs as lights for ovens and other appliances.
Yes the oven/fridge lamps will work for a current limiting test rig😉👍
@MyProjectBoxChannel Good day, thank you for your very informative videos. (220VAC in Europe) I built this version of the no-neutral circuit and my Sonoff mini starts up on the light switch side but the light did not react when the mini switch is toggled, when I measure the voltage connected to my light/LED I only measured 110VAC between live and neutral. Is it possible to point me in the right direction with the above provided information? tyia
The voltage at the LED bulb is not AC voltage, but rather half-wave rectified DC. So you need to have your multimeter set to DC volts!😉. With no LED bulb the voltage will be 300V+ volts DC , but a bit less with the LED bulb connected. Some types of older LED bulbs don't work with DC voltage, so I would advise you try different types/brands of LED bulbs. It's possible to test If a LED bulb is DC compatible by powering it up with a diode in-line with its supply( in-line with the L). It will probably be flickering badly, but should light up if DC capable.
Hi. This Not work with Tuya qs-zigbee-s10-2c. But if i change Live wire to N connector and wire from bulb to L, it's starting, bur Bulb not get Light (((
Thank you for this. Have been looking for a solution as simple as this one. Just to confirm, the sizes of the components you used works for RSA households (voltage etc)? I assumed from your accent you're South African...Afrikaans soos ek;-). Where do you buy your components? I already have the Sonoff switches, just looking for a reference for the diodes and capacitor?
Yes! The my circuit should work in South Africa, as the voltage is the same as Europe were I built my test circuit😉👍.
The circuit is experimental, but works well with most types of LED bubs and lights(not all). The diodes are rated 1Amp (1N4007 Diode) and this is fine for most LED bulbs. You could use bigger diodes if you wish the make the circuit more robust. Nothing wrong with over engineering it to make it more fault tolerant. So it can trip the circuit breaker, and possibly survive short-circuit fault current. If you have more bulbs on one circuit, then you should put a separate bypass on each bulb.
The "fusible resistor" can also be adjusted for higher wattage bulbs. I used 10ohm 1W fusible resistor in my example, but You can use 5ohm and 2W, for more current. The capacitor is 10uf 400V, It is good for removing the flickering for most LED bulbs. You can increase the value of the capacitor if you require, but if you increase it too much, the initial inrush current might blow the fusible resistor. Let me know how you get on, and remember that just one thing in the wrong polarity, and things will go Bang! So make a test rig first to prove it all works first😉.
Hi, it seems to me in the schematic @16:05 shows that Line Out and Neutral In are connected via the 2 forward biased diodes. Doesn't that cause a direct short and trip the breaker? Thanks.
No there is no short-circuit. The diodes are diverting the two halves of the sinewave in different directions. It's a bit like splitting a full bridge rectifier split in half. It's mind bending at first, but I can assure you that it works. Setup a test circuit and try it for your self. Just don't get a diode in the wrong position, then you will have a short!😉
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Thanks. I took a closer look and realized that the there is 'no' direct neutral connection into the sonoff. It is via the diodes. Also, I do not know if there is a 'load' on the sonoff between the Line Out and Neutral in. If there is, it will not be a short circuit. Thanks for sharing.
What resistor your using.. ? Sorry, newbie here…
Hi, thank you so much for this video. I only found out that I have no neutral lines in half my house after ordering the R2s. I just implemented your solution, but experience quite a lot of flickering when I turn on the switch. My country has 230V 50hz, is there any way I can reduce this?
What size capacitor did you use? Different LED bulbs behave in different ways, some don't even need capacitors at all, to stop any flickering. Others might need up to 10uf or more(at least 400V rated). You could also try different brands/types of LED Bulbs, and see if that sorts the problem. You can make a little test rig to see if your bulb can tolerate DC. In rare cases, some LED bulbs simply won't work😔. Put a diode in line with the live, pointing towards the positive of a capacitor. The neutral connects to the negative, and the lamp connects across the capacitor. If the LED bulb works fine you know you're good.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Hi, thank you for replying! I've ordered 400V 10uF capacitors and have tried a LED bulb and a classic luminescent bulb. Both experience some flickering, although it seems to improve over the next 1-2minutes.
@@r.schotmn4409 happy to help. Let me know how you get on.
Awesome, I'm gonna try this for sure. But I have questions about fusible resistor and the voltage you are working with in this video.
Q: Does a fusible resistor need to be able to handle a specific Watt?
Q: Which voltage are you working with here, 110v or 220v? (I'm living in a 220v country, not sure if I can apply this circuit or not?)
Thanks a lot anyway.
My circuit is working on 230v and I used a 10 ohm 1w fusible resistor. This should work fine for most people. It's worth remembering that 10W LED lamp won't pass 1w through the resistor. The resistor sees only 0.018w. So in this case the wattage rating my fusible resistor is negligible and grossly overrated. It will only see a large current spike when the capacitor is initially charged and then just sits there idle.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel I have another question, will the fusible resistor still works if there are multiple LED lamps? (let's say 3 x 10W LED)
@@jayakornkarikan2825 I have not tested it with that configuration, of three bulbs connected together. But in theory the fusible resistor should be fine. You would have to experiment to see if the capacitor value would be adequate, to prevent multiple LED bulbs from flickering, due to the increased current draw. Different LED bulbs behave in different ways, depending how their internal driver circuit works. Some of them don't even need a "anti-flicker" capacitor at all. Another option is to build the lamp base part of the circuit for each individual bulb. This will of course make things more complex. And you could easily make a mistake with the polarity of one of the diodes, not good. But try experimenting with connecting three bulbs in parallel, with the standard circuit and let me know your result.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Thanks for the answer, I will try with your original circuit first, and will let you know the result.
I can't seem to find it - what size diodes are appropriate for this. Mains power is 220V. Thanks!
The Diodes I used are the 1N4007 type (rated at 1Amp 1000V). The capacitor is 10uf 400v. You can use bigger diodes if you prefer.
I tried this solution with my sonoff smart switch (T1EU1C). the switch itself is working and turns on the light bulb but the light bulb is vibrating really faintly. It seems it does not get enough current. Any idea?
This circuit hack was really meant for the sonoff mini R2. But in theory it should work with other smart switches(with slight modifications). I have not experimented with the T1EU1C yet. It's quite brave of you to try though, it could be interesting. You could try a different LED bulb. You could increase the size of the capacitor to minimize the flicker of the bulb. Or you could test if your LED bulb works on DC by powering it through a diode(and maybe a cap as well (to smooth the DC). Not all LED light bulbs are capable of working on DC, but lucky most do just fine. I really do need to get hold of one, to do my own experiments, to verify if it's possible. Maybe I could take it apart to see the internal workings.
will this work on fluorescent? Both Incandescent and Led can run on DC.
The short answer is yes! The long answer is, it Won't work on the "old fashioned" fluorescent fittings with starters and magnetic ballast. Most compact fluorescent bulbs should work just fine. And the electronic ballast type fittings, should be ok aswell. CFLs run on high frequency AC inside, but first the mains gets converted to DC. So they can operate from a DC source.
im trying to do the same but i can only locate 10uF 400V with a shelf live of 3000hrs. Does this mean that after 125days, it will go bang?
Electrolytic capacitors are a necessary evil these days. Unfortunately they don't last forever. They can degrade and lose capacitance over time. It is also possible for them to fail short circuit, but it's NOT extremely common. In the video I added a fusible resistor to protect against this. It sounds like you are buying a time bomb instead of capacitor 😂😂🤣. No seriously you should be fine. Temperature also affects the lifespan of a capacitor. So if you keep them cool they last longer. They can last for many years.
By the way just be careful when you work with mains powered circuits. Pre-test everything on a test rig first. If you get just one component in the wrong polarity, something will go POP!
A link of a diagram of the circuit in the description would have been a nice touch
You can do a screenshot of the circuit diagram, and all the component values are there. The video has chapters that link to a explanation and the diagram. You welcome to ask me questions if you not sure. I will be updating the circuit soon, with some improvements and refinements, from the feedback on the comments😉.
That's what I resorted to, it was just a suggestion for an otherwise great video @@MyProjectBoxChannel
Will it work with incondescent bulbs/cfl/LED? what would be maximum safe load on this circuit?
I designed it to work mainly with LED bulbs(some older led bulbs may not work), but it also works well with most cfl bulbs. Incandescent bulbs will work, but you might need to change the value of the fusible resistor, because of the higher current draw. I have tested LED ceiling lights, with separate driver circuits aswell.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel i will do some tests, thanks for reply
@@maximmono1 I used 1AMP diodes, so I guess 200w pushing it to the maximum🤔🤨. But you could just use bigger diodes for more current. You could use 10A10 Diodes. That's good for 10Amp continuously! It can probably survive a short circuit, and trip the breaker without destroying the diode. It can handle hundreds of amps for a brief period. If you want to make the thing "almost indestructible"🤣
@@MyProjectBoxChannel as you mentioned mostly LED lights so 1 AMP is perfectly enough per circuit
Can't find 10μF capacitor, only 15μ and 6.8μ available in local market here, which for substitution, higher or lower?
Thanks
15uf is better😉👍. I'm actually using 15uf for the updated version of my circuit. And 10A10 Diodes are much better.
nice hack, is possible to work with SONOFF TX T3 ?
YES!! It works perfectly with the TX T3 and TX T3! I have just tested it and it's quite simple to do😉👍. Only one output channel needs the bypass circuit. I'll have to do a video on it soon 🙂.
Would this work as well with a Sonoff NSPanel and a 32watt LED Light (BW-CLT1) ?
The NSPanel is basically the same as the Sonoff Mini just with a touch display, so will pull much more current.
I haven't tested it with a NSPanel yet, but it works with the M5-2C, which looks like its the same thing, but without the display. You can use bigger diodes for more current if you require it. The capacitor value can be increased if it's not enough for your 32watt light fixture (it might be ok). Setup a test rig to see if it works first😉.(and let me know your results) The diodes I use should be OK for 200w. See my video on the Sonoff M5-3C th-cam.com/video/8h29-0rpQJo/w-d-xo.html
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Thank you a lot, for some reason my answer vanished so posting it again.
I will order some parts from aliexpress and report back.
About the fusible resistor, does wattage matter ? I found "fuse wire wound resistor 5% 0.25 watt 10 ohm" on aliexpress, which is also available as 1, 3 or 5 watt.
@@CH-vo7fu it's not critical(1w is normally good for up to 70w ), but with bigger a load a 2w is better for more current (if it gets too hot). A 5 ohm fusible resistor, could handle a bigger load. Do some experiments and see what works best.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel alright order is on the way, will report back once I have a test setup ready.
I will connect the diode directly to L in instead of L Out to power both devices constantly, since the lamp also has wifi to turn on/off.
I guess I also don't need the capacitor, since the lamp has a led driver, so it's built in already but I will keep it just in case.
fingers crossed
@@CH-vo7fu It's definitely a interesting way of implementing of my circuit🤔, powering two smart devices continuously. I had to think about it for a bit, to work out what you want to do. Just be careful not to get any diodes in the wrong polarity. Maybe test your idea with a normal LED bulb first. If everything works as expected, then connect your smart light fixture. Also if you use my current limiting trick, with a old incandescent light bulb in line with the supply, for testing. This will save you some tears if you make a mistake.
how much power are you using if only using half of the AC ?
is this inefficient in power draw ?
The power draw should average out to be more or less the same. Efficiency isn't affected much, but power factor isn't great. But on small loads like this it doesn't really matter much. For domestic use we don't pay extra for bad power factor. The impact on the AC waveform, isn't as bad as the old fashioned phase angle, light dimmers we used to use.
Hello friend, is this diode arrangement connected in the same way, for a mk601 smart switch?
I don't know, it might be the same configuration. You will need to experiment. Use the safety current limiting trick(old light bulb) in the video. That way you can safely test everything. Remember if want to try and reverse the polarity of all the diodes, then you need to do the capacitor aswell.
Hello friend, I connected the diodes and the capacitor in the aubess as you explain in the mini r2 video and it works to turn the lamp on and off from the application, but the switch that you think I have to do does not work, I thank you in advance .
Hi, thanks - are you on mainland europe 220volt / 60Hzt - or doesn’t it matter?
Yes I'm in Europe 🇪🇺 and in the UK aswell, so the circuit was tested on 230Vac. People have reported that it works fine on 110V aswell 😉👍. I have taken some feedback from the comments, and updated the circuit with some minor changes and improvements. I will need to do a video on the new version soon.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel 👍🏻 yes - please do - and maybee with the new sonos mini 4, if it has some improvements - beside seize
Might work with led lights but I don't know how this will go switching 2kw of heater......
The circuit is definitely only meant for LED light bulbs. 😔 Some really big diodes are required for that heater to work. It's only recommended for very small loads. (The diods are rated for 1Amp max!)
Does it draw any vampire curent and if it does how much. Great video btw. thanks for sharing.
There is no parasitic current in my circuit. The only current draw is the normal power consumption of the Sonoff smart switch 👌
@@MyProjectBoxChannel That's good to know, thanks for answer. Now I go to make this thing, because I just bought 13 tuya switches and realised that I've ordered with neutral wire, witch I don't have
@@wolfstrashni I have designed and tested this circuit on Sonoff smart switches, so I can't personally verify that it will work on your tuya smart switchs. Other people have tried it and had some success. You might have to reverse the polarity of all the diodes and capacitor. You can test your tuya smart switch, by powering it up on the L-in , via a diode. Check which way round the diode works, and change all polarities accordingly. Also check the comments for what other people have done.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel ok, thanks
Hi will this work with Sonoff D1 smart Dimmer switch?
It was never designed to work with a sonoff dimmer switch. So I don't think you will get good results.
Hey, u are get me from the "hell"... because i have only live wire in my old switches and dont want to add neutral there. But, this connection work only for 1 light?! I have double switches, u can help me with some advice, please?!
th-cam.com/users/shortsWXQtRh0gYJM?feature=share
Or change the light switch itself th-cam.com/video/8h29-0rpQJo/w-d-xo.html
I have tried this but on Sonoff M5 (2 gang) , thinking it would work the same way, but i fried both of the relays on the board.
When switches were off, the device started normally and i was able to pair to my phone. As soon as i activated the Switch 1 it exploded, i tried it again on Switch 2 thinking i may have done something wrong and when activating Switch2 - boom again, now both of my relays are fried :D
maybe im doing something wrong, or maybe it doesn't work with this switch..
I admire you for trying this with a sonoff m5, and I'm sorry about the switch getting fried. This experimental circuit was really only designed for the sonoff miniR2. Although the circuit is really simple, you just need one diode in the wrong position and something will go POP!😔😭
I haven't tried it with the sonoff M5 yet, But I know it works with the sonoff TX. (from some experimentation). Only one of the outputs, should have a diodes and capacitor, "bypass circuit", at the led bulb. I would recommend doing a "test-rig circuit" first, with an (old type) incandescent light bulb, for current limiting, feeding inline the Live to your test circuit. This will prevent anything from going BANG if you make a mistake. The worst thing that will happen is the light bulb will come on. Also including a fusible resistor is important for safety and inrush current protection.
Hi there bud I need some help if u can ild love u forever lol
I have a control box with a 24acv 600mA out put the controller is designed to activate this output via a program, I wish to activate a uk plug on and off, my assumption is that I need a relay but I've no idea which one and how to wire it
So I guess you want the 24 volts AC, to switch your relay so that you can control a mains (230v)socket outlet/plug? In that case you need a relay with a 24V coil, and if the 24 volt is AC, then relay coil needs to be 24 volt AC as well. I don't know what load you are going to connect to your plug, but I would have the relay at least 10 amp rated (16 amps would be ideal, for a UK plug socket). You would connect the 24 volt to the coil side of the relay. And the (normally open) switch contacts, of the relay would go in-line with the Live wire of your plug ( basically it breaks the wire in half and reconnects it just like a normal switch) So to summarize: 24 volt coil relay, rated at at least 10 Amp. Here is a relay with screw terminal base I found on eBay: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164795163408?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=C9lzf0LmSbG&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=qu3kmgcqR9W&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
I tried this and for a single light it is fine, however if there are multiple lights in series such as a set of driveway lights, then only one of these lights works
You need to put a "bypass circuit" for every light on the same lighting circuit. And mabe bigger diodes on the Sonoff mini, to handle the increased current.
It's also worth testing to see If all the LED lights can work with DC first. Most newer LED lights work fine with DC.
i have a neutral in wire but i dont have a neutral out wire that goes to the load which is a fan is there work around for it?
You only need to have a Neutral IN, connected to the minir2. It does not require a neutral out. The miniR2 only the switches the Live. You do however need a neutral locally connected at the load (fan). Is the fan replacing an existing light fixture? Is it the bathroom fan? Maybe you could give me some more information. If it's replacing a light bulb there will be a neutral locally at the load.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel my WiFi switch is essentially the same but it has neutral out instead of neutral like minir 2 but i dont have a neutral connection going to the fan its concealed so i can not wire it its a ceiling fan the wireless switch is turning on but fails to turn the fan on only makes noise of switching maybe because of no neutral out
@@shahzadbaloch9987 if u happen to have in a single place neutral, live and the live going to the fan then you can go with the basic wiring (the one usually the manufacturer advise). In that case you don't need diodes or capacitors , it is the most desirable situation
Maybe this is a stupid question but...isn't this essentially using two "half bridge rectifiers" to turn one AC circuit into two alternatively pulsating DC circuits? If that's indeed the case, I can see some smart switches not liking at all the fact they basically only get power half of the time...am I just missing something?
You basically have the right idea. From all my tests, the internal power supply smoothing capacitor, provides more than adequate filtering, to smooth out the DC ripples. I have been working on a updated version of this circuit, that has an additional capacitor on the smart switch side, this will provide pre-filtering of the half-wave DC. That way the internal capacitor has less work to do. I have done this for more expensive smart switches like NSpanelPro. It still works fine without this capacitor, but its not a bad idea to include it.😉
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Does it work with Shelly Plus1 mini?
I have not tested it with the newer mini shelly range yet, but I believe it should work just fine with the plus1 mini(Please let me know your results). I don't know if the power monitoring version will measure power correctly, with my circuit🤔, but it should still work. I have updated the circuit a bit to make it more robust in a newer video. th-cam.com/video/mznx0xoF8Ck/w-d-xo.html
Is there anyway to use this with a 2 way circuit?
I don't think so 🤔, not without putting extra wires between the switches. I have a different circuit that would work. But you need to put the Sonoff by the light fixture. th-cam.com/video/9hQFFsBkxaU/w-d-xo.html
12:08 - I have 220V, is this circuit designed for 220V? And the second question, the resistor is 10 ohms, and how many watts?
Yes it was originally tested on 230Vac. The resistor can be rated at 2 Watts. But because people have connected many different type higher power LED load, some people have somehow managed to blow this resistor🤔. I have updated my design a bit. The main difference is that the resistor is now inline with the capacitor, and won't blow so easily. th-cam.com/video/mznx0xoF8Ck/w-d-xo.html
I tested on a tuya mini zigbee and tuya wifi mini switches and didn't work :( Did you tested it?
No I haven't tried it on any tuya devices yet. Noticed that the connection terminals are different for the tuya WiFi mini ( neutrals and live connections are reversed). It also depends how the internal rectification circuit is set up in the tuya device power supply. You could try and reverse every diode in the circuit, and the capacitor aswell. I need to investigate it further, but it could work. If I get my hands on one, I could do some experiments.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel I've updated the sketch due to the terminals position change, but without any luck. Thanks, I'll try to find if it possible and update if i manage to get it to work.
@@helderquinzico2728 No worries. Just be careful! You only need one diode in the wrong position for something to go bang quite dramatically. Use a "old style" incandescent light bulb, as a current limiter to test your circuit. The sonoff minir2, has a half wave rectifier internally. I guess the Tuya is half-wave as well, but it could be in the opposite polarity. You can test this polarity by powering up the device via a diode. If you had the Sonoff and the tuya side by side you could compare them.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel good explanation on the difference between tuya and sonoff builds.
On another unrelated question, does the mini module usually fits nicely behind wall switch or do you need to add spacer?
@MyProjectBoxChannel - Comment / Challenge for you here, USA 240v circuits in home run on a 3 wire + ground split phase configuration, they have two Lives that are out of phase with one another (120 V each), in most cases no neutral at the device you want to switch, and a ground. in this case, the appliance circuit can be completed without a neutral (L1 as live and L2 to complete the rest of the circuit, combined they deliver 240V in sort of a push/pull phase configuration - V measure being the difference between highest and lowest point of the wave). How would you wire the Sonof (or the shelly) here? I have diagrammed this out in quite a bit of detail to prove that 2 lives behave almost identically to 1 live and one neutral, with only one exception that I canb spot: in split phase, L2 can produce significant electric shock when the appliance is off. happy to show my work, and would love to see a video on this, assuming you'd be able to simulate the split phase 240 V circuit?
You are correct😉. From a electrical functionality standpoint, There is no difference between North American split phase 240V L&L , and the European 240V L&N . You could use a Sonoff on L&L (two "hot" wires) just connect one "hot" to the "neutral" terminal on the Sonoff (to power it up). The connected load would be turned On & Off as normal, but the relay would only brake one L (Hot). It would be better if you connected an external, double pole relay to the Sonoff, to switch both "L1 and L2" (It's a bit safer to switch both, but the connected load does not care). If you don't need 240V, then both the Sonoff and Shelly, will work on 110V (I think)
@@MyProjectBoxChannel unfortunately there's no neutral wire at the appliances so can't switch both, but thank you for confirming
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Maybe it just a Bad unit , basically just controlling a 12dc PSU. Mains into Sonoff and controlled by DVR i/o.
what a nice electro-magnetic interference device you make, double pulses around around 4 possible 5 meters wire to act as antenna basic transmitter principles , i hope to not have any radio armature station close to you ....
There will be little to know electromagnetic interference! It's just normal halfwave of rectification at 50 HZ. The AC waveform is broken at the zero volt level, so it's very smooth. The traditional light bulb dimmers create a lot of radio frequency interference. They use triac phase angle voltage control. And chop the AC wave form, quite aggressively anywhere at any point, creating very sharp edges on the wave form.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel make a smile test , use any mobile radio receiver on am and sw band , tune the receiver in random places on the band and open close remote lamps. if you have any electromagnetic interference use a simple emi filter to eliminate the noise :-)
@@pantvas6970 Yes I could do the FM AM radio test if you insist. I know all about the electromagnetic interference. Back when I was younger, I built disco lights circuits, that used a triac to switch spotlights ON and OFF, to the beat of the music. If you didn't put a EMI filter/snubber network, on the output it would interfere with the local AM radio reception. This is because sometimes it would switch in the middle of the AC waveform and generate high frequency noise. But I later discovered that you get something called, zero crossing switching. That means the triac will only switch on the 0V point of the AC waveform. As long as you're not switching inductive loads, it would not generate electromagnetic interference. My circuit is similar, in that the diodes only conduct on at the "zero volt" point in the AC wave form. So you get 50 HZ halve-wave. These half-wave pulses are much too low a frequency, to generate any interference on any radio station frequency. Because they smoothly follow the sine wave from 0 volt to 0 volt.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel yes you are right is 0 volt to 0 volt no back emf ,is more possible to get emi form the lamp circuit and not from your circuit
Очень интересно
НО
Очень плохо, что автор не раскрыл 2 очень важных вопроса:
1. Обычно такое smart реле при подключении как положено, то есть с N, рассчитано на коммутацию нагрузки до 10А и даже до 16А. Боюсь что данная схема совсем не сможет выдержать такую нагрузку, будет именно тот взрыв, который упоминался в видео. И об этом надо было обязательно предупредить зрителей. И указать, что максимальный ток нагрузки здесь может быть 1А, что соответствует, допустим, 200Вт, но и этого допускать не желательно, поэтому максимальная нагрузка в данной схеме может быть не более 100Вт.
2. Это что получается, и реле и нагрузка работают только от половины напряжения?
Наверное для реле нет разницы, если оно работает, то это нормально.
Но вот будет ли светодиодная лампа светить так же хорошо при половине напряжения?
Обычная старая лампа с нитью будет светить в полнакала.
У led лампы своя схема, возможно ей достаточно 110V, но при этом возможно будут больше токи в схеме лампы, возможно будет греться, возможно будет плохо работать, мерцать.
You are correct 100W (200w max) is the maximum load for my circuit. But my circuit was designed for LED light bulbs, which is not more than 10w or so. ( you can use bigger diodes like 10A10, 10AMP for more current if you require) There will be no explosions 🤣, because I have included a special "fuse resistor", for over current protection.
You have "incorrectly" assumed the the half-wave rectified voltage is effectively 110V! Because I have included a capacitor, that charges to the peak of the sinewave! This peak voltage is the same for full-wave-rectification or half-wave rectification. So the DC voltage inside the led bulb Is still the same as normal (+- 350Vdc). This capacitor eliminates all flickering in the LED bulb.
Many people have tested this circuit and the lamp brightness is not affected and all works well. The Sonoff mini, has a internal half-wave rectifier, so half-wave is not a problem there. I have a different circuit that works on a similar principle. th-cam.com/video/x7Q8AS238pY/w-d-xo.html
You need the Neutral wire unless you have a full set of RCBO's in your Consumer Unit for your safety
You always require the neutral to complete the circuit (there is still a neutral connected to the light bulb). In this case "no neutral" refers to there not being a neutral wire, behind the light switch box. It doesn't matter if you have a consumer unit with RCBO's fitted or not. In some countries the neutral isn't brought to the back of light switch box, but rather straight to the light bulb. In the UK it's common to bring everything, (L, N, E, sL) to the ceiling rose first. I do like the idea of a fuse board completely filled with RCBO's though. I wish more countries would use them. I've only seen them used in the UK.
Bought two of these. But one burnt out almost straight away. Load only an 1 Amp. Bad burn out.
Did the Sonoff burnout with my circuit?
@@MyProjectBoxChannel No , sorry should have mentioned, no didn't burn out using your circuit. Was using it from a DVR , to control an IR light.
HALF WAVE = HALF LAMP ILLUMINATED. RIGHT or NOT
No! Because the capacitor charges up to the peak voltage of the sinewave😉👍. So it's the same peak voltage for half-wave or full-wave, if you rectified it, and smoothed with a capacitor. The difference is you require a bigger capacitor for half-wave to maintain the voltage. If there was no capacitor, and the load was resistive, like a old incandescent light bulb, then yes it would give you half the brightness.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Thanks. Also Have you used LED lamp as lamp? How does he react?
@@safakankara7613 I specifically designed this circuit for LED lamps, so yes I recommend LED lamps. I have found some older types of LED bulbs that don't work on DC, but most of them work fine👍
On the scale of 1 - not to code, how "not to code" would this be in Australia 😅
Nothing electronic/electrical, that is home made, can ever meet code or electrical certification. So this is considered a experimental/prototype circuit. Your insurance is not going to support it.
Not keen on running the load on DC....
The LED light bulb runs on DC internally anyway. When powered by a AC supply, the first thing that happens is, AC passing through a full bridge rectifier and converted to DC. If you feed it DC, it just passes straight through the rectifier into the reservoir capacitor anyway. Even compact florescent light bulbs do this. It's not a good solution for something like a ceiling fan motor, that can only work with AC. Some older style cheap and nasty LED bulbs, have a capacitor dropper circuit, that only works with AC.
Be aware this is dangerous as you are taking the current for the lamp through the diodes which are only rated for 1A, thease could over heat and fail.
I have used 10Amp diodes for my newer version of this circuit. But it's worth mentioning that 1Amp is more than adequate for most LED bulbs that are not drawing more than 0.05Amp. Using bigger diodes are useful in the event of a circuit fault, that way the diodes can cope better with higher fault currents, if something goes wrong😉👍. th-cam.com/video/mznx0xoF8Ck/w-d-xo.html
SONOFF ZBMINI-L Zigbee 3.0 Smart Switch - No Neutral Wire Required
Yes you are correct the ZBMINI-L does not require a neutral wire (I actually show a picture of it in the video). But with that you will require a zigbee bridge. The sonoff mini only requires Wi-Fi. Many people might have a sonoff mini lying around. It's also a little bit cheaper. This hack in theory, could add the "no neutral" function to other smart switches /relay's as well😉
No neutral how use?
Howzit boet! Tell me you are South African!!!!!
Yes I was born in South Africa. I haven't lived there for 21 years now. I guess it's South Africa that gave me that, "got to make it work somehow" mindset 😉
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Awesome man. Great content. Keep it up!
Thanks for this video. The information is very useful.
In the case where there is no neutral and capacitor is used,
th-cam.com/video/LqKUTmLpjFY/w-d-xo.html
at 18:51, Aqara connected at L1 only, but when pressing the empty load L2 and L3, the L1 load flickers.
In the case where there is no neutral and no capacitor,
th-cam.com/video/LqKUTmLpjFY/w-d-xo.html
at 22:38, Burnett connected at L1 only, but when pressing the empty load L2 and L3, the L1 load flickers.
Any suggestions for a simple solution (both cases above)?
My "NO-Neutral" circuit Hack, has so far only been tested with a Sonoff mini-R2 ; Sonoff dual-r3 ; Sonoff tx-t3 and shelly1. All these switches were designed to have a neutral wire, And my circuit was made for that(To make them work without a neutral). It will not work with "no-neutral" smart switches. Unfortunately the video you referring to, is not in English. So it's difficult for me to work out what he is talking about.
nice trick but not covered by any insurance. let's buy a no neutral switch this will be less expensive than buy another house :)
I get your point, I really do! But I have stressed many times that this is a "experimental prototype" circuit, and as such will not be electrically certified. However electronic DIY enthusiasts, have always built their own circuits and used them at home. I have taken every care, to include failsafe features to make it safe. I have seen some horrible commercial "no-neutral" products, were the bypass burns out, with flames!!! So as someone who designs circuits. I have always tried to fix/hack/improve some of the "mistakes" manufacturers have made in their products. Not allowing people to experiment with their own equipment because of liability and warranty, is not the world I want to live in. It's just like the right to repair, if you own it, you get to decide wat to do with it. Just make sure you do it as safety as possible.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel I wasn't a criticising, just answering to the question about the 3 possible solutions. The hack is really great but as I said if a commercial stuff burn out I always have the solution to sue the company. This my horribly pragmatic point of view. Sorry for that.😀
@@sched75 No offence taken, criticism is a good thing 😉👍. Obviously I don't recommend that everyone with out any electronic competence, do this hack, as it involves a element of risk. So it's not going to be for everyone.
I'm not a big fan of insurance companies. It's a bit like a legalised protection racket.
Nice hack, what is the reason for splitting the bridge? Won't a single bridge with cap in the switch box do the same thing?
I wish it was that simple🤔. But we are trying to switch a L output from the relay, and return the N back, to power the Sonoff, and doing it all through the same wire. So we split the AC waveform into the top half-wave cycles that outputs to the bulb, and the bottom half-wave cycles that act as the neutral, feeding back to power the Sonoff. We use the diodes to "steer the direction" and select "what goes where".
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Yes, you are right, the connection to the neutral will preclude using a bridge. Thanks for the reply