Gen 2, more than any other, feels like it's full of Pokemon that are great for "flavour" purposes, but don't actually have any reason to use them in-game. Some of it might be because they wanted the Pokemon to exist for other reasons (this was the first generation after the anime became a huge hit, for example). Some of it might be the game's long and troubled development, they may not have had as much time to balance the movepools and placements as they should have. And some of it might be that they were still emphasizing "gotta catch 'em all" at this time - a Pokemon being rare and difficult to find could be its entire point.
I feel like some of them had evolutions that just couldn't be fit in the game (in fact, we know that cuz of the spaceworld demo). 151 pokemon already existed and they all had to be transferable. We know that the games final form is packed to the brim in terms of cartridge space
I think they also wanted to make sure everything got utilized... Like the Day/Night system and the Swarm mechanic. It's too bad that many of the Swarm Pokemon are very mediocre, and a vast majority of the good Night Pokemon are locked to Kanto...
One other thing I forgot to mention is that there was no concept of "regional Pokemon" in Gen 2. It was simply the entire Pokedex. If a niche was already covered by a Pokemon from Gen 1, they would simply use that Pokemon instead of creating a new one. The new mons are only meant to fill in the gaps. Which means there's not so many big and powerful Pokemon - those niches were already covered in RBY. To list some examples: - Only generation that didn't create a new regional bird, regional rat, regional big, and regional pseudolegendary dragon. We get something entirely new, Tyranitar, as the new powerhouse instead. (Hoothoot does not play the role of local bird, it fills the new role of representing the Day/Night mechanic.) - Gym Leaders use iconic gen 1 Pokemon as their aces unless there's a specific reason not to. Jasmine doesn't because her type is new (although even her ace is an evolution of Onix). Clair doesn't because they wanted two dragon specialists and couldn't give her the best one. And Pryce doesn't because the generation had to introduce an Ice-type boss monster to make up for RBY's extremely underwhelming ice types. Whitney is the only one who they gave a new Pokemon as an ace when they had the option to give her an old one. - Significant new lore is built around old pokemon like Bellsprout, Slowpoke, Magikarp, Dratini. New Pokemon like Ampharos are used only when there's no existing mon suitable for the story point. - The starters are the only counterexample, where they really did introduce a Pokemon whose role is the same as one from a previous generation.
I am genuinely upset at how late you can get Houndour, the burned tower was the perfect location for its appearance, falls on the theme of the place and seems as a reliable choice against Morty's ghost pokemon, i've used one for my Pokemon Scarlet playthrough and i love it so much despite its flaws. Also, does anyone else think Morty should have Misdreavus in its team?
I’m glad someone agrees. Houndour would have been a great early game fire type. And Misdreavus for sure should have been on the team. It’s crazy that there isn’t one in the whole gym.
I'm one of those people who thought slugma was a gen3 pokemon because you find it early in emerald and I never saw it in gen2. I only realized it was gen2 after making a ROM hack and discovering where it's encountered. Was surprised it wasn't grouped with the other three before the edit. Developers make some questionable decisions for sure.
@@grahamscott7308That's weird. Misdreavus was rare in the game, but it was so heavily advertised and featured in the show back in the days that I actually think of it as one of the first when I think of "gen 2 Pokemon"
The Gen 2 dex is flooded with a lot of really poorly balanced mons, that I have to blame on the Special Def. split. They probably didn't want to create overpowered mons like they had with Special Juggernaut Alakazam, Uber bulky sweeper Tauros, or "I'll use whatever damn move I want" Nidoking, so they aired on the side of caution, and made most mons have very balanced stats. Compare this to the Gen 5 minmaxers like Archeops, Excadrill, Darmanitan and Sawk, who are easily obtained throughout the game and put the beatdown on everyone. Other than Heracross, the other two starters (not Chikorita, sorry :3), Espeon and Ampharos, you're better off slapping the game with gen 1 mons. A simple core of Graveler (Golem with trades), Kadabra (Alakazam with trades), Red Gyarados, etc. just blasts the entire Johto league to smithereens.
It's a huge shame too because gen 2 has most of my favorite mon designs. I feel bad not wanting to use a design I love over another, better pokemon well suited to that role 😢
I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention Dunsparce. 10-year-old me was ecstatic when I ran into one and caught it outside of a swarm, and subsequently disappointed when I learned that it can't do anything
Tbh it’s a toss up between Aipom and Dunsparce for the worse normal type. You can make a good case either way. I didn’t want my boy Dunsparce to get more hate than he already does lol. He is pretty disappointing though.
@@shepskydad I always used my Dunces for status infliction. I don't know why, but the Dunsparce I first got back in Pokemon Gold was tanky as heck, and always came in clutch on switch ins. I know he's not the best, but he saved me multiple times. Dunsparce the true unsung hero.
One thing I think you left out worth mention was that Yanma was one of the six swarm Pokémon in GS (alongside Marill, Snubbull, Remoraid, Qwilfish, and Dunsparce), so the issue of its rarity could be mitigated if you got a lucky phone call from an NPC. Still doesn't make Yanma any more forgivable, but...
Fair point! I always forget about those mechanics in Gen 2. I appreciate the swarm Pokémon for the “catch ‘em all” aspect, but they should have been good Pokémon lol
@@shepskydad These are the Pokkemon I would add for worst of Gen 3 -Nosepass = Weak stats and how you obtain is so obscure. Even though it is traceable on the Pokedex, the game never tells the player that you need to have rock smash in order to make it spawn. Which can mislead the player despite it being encountered at Granite Cave. It doesn't help your only exposure to it is through Roxanne. -Mawile = While Sableye, the counterpart also has low stats I think its typing actually does a lot for the player in game. Using one myself a lot it proved to be useful, as a lot of trainers use normal, fighting, poison or ghost/dark moves, so its resistances come in handy. It can also learn Shadow Ball, allowing another team member to use the TM, which adds more diversity for fighting say Phoebe. Mawile on the other hand has no advantages with its type, as it's outclassed by Aggron and is a version exclusive. Where in Emerald (the definitive version) can't even be obtained until victory road, so not only is it unusable, you can't even catch it at a point to use it. - Luvdisc =Self explanatory. Worst stats in the game as well as the worst movepull I'd argue (Magikarp doesn't count since that's intentional) plus it can only be obtained right in front of Ever Grande City, the Pokemon league! Why on earth would you use it, let along the league? -Mightyena = Honestly the worst Dark type in the game. even Sableye will do more for you. While Intimidate is nice that's really all it has and is outclassed holy by Absol. Who could do anything you wanted Mightyena to do, but better. -Shedinja = Has the worst boss spread in the game and too many battles carry its weakness to be of any use. It also has awful stats aside base 90 attack -Beldum = Can't get until postgame and is super weak until it evolves - Swalot - The worst of the Poison type options, which is sad because it's the only exclusive Hoenn Poison type. But there's not much it offers over the other options like Tentacruel, Weezing, Muk or Crobat. -Delcatty - Skitty is rare, and when you get it Delcatty's stats are super unhelpful and won't do anything other normal types wouldn't. it has a surpingly shallow movepool for a Normal type, you're better off with Exploud.
@@Surgemaster2012I love shedinja, it may not always be great, but it's a fun gimmick. Also in the right circumstances, it can make certain battles free because nothing CAN hit it.
As a kid I caught that scyther, won the bug catching competition, and traded with my step brother to evolve it into a scizor. I used him in my playthrough and he was my favorite pokemon for a long time. Sheer luck I’m sure, never realized it was so tough.
It's not that tough. I won it all the time as a kid. As long as you can get a Scyther or Pinsir, you'll win. I always found this one patch where I encountered them (not sure if this was actually legit or just my kid-level logic).
I have used Houndour/Houndoom for a playthrough. I traded a Houndour over from Crystal Version to Silver Version to try something new and I didn't regret it. My fiery demon doggo basically carried me through the whole game, and I just wondered "Why not let us catch one in Johto?" I felt it was a great substitute for Growlithe or even Cyndaquil if used properly
This comment is gonna be fun. Sorry if I waffle too much in advance, this stuff is very interesting to me. I half wonder if you might have inadvertently answered your own question. They might have thought it was too powerful to allow you to catch it in Johto. Houndour and Houndoom have pretty good special attack, and due to the goofballs at gamefreak making dark type moves special, that means Houndoom uses its 110 base sp Attack to throw out STAB 80 base power Crunches. BTW, the only other pokemon in the game with STAB Crunch is Tyranitar, which isn't available until the endgame and hilariously has a lower special attack, and the only other dark move to reach 80 base power is pursuit, and that requires the opponent to switch out, which most opponents don't seem to do in this game. Needless to say, Crunch is the best dark move in the game. Someone else on this video suggested putting them in burned tower, and this would mean being able to beat up Morty with a STAB Bite, while being resistant to the ghost type attacks of Morty's mons. It also means being able to tell Will to get stuffed because his pokemon have limited options against you. Psychic does nothing to you, so their best STAB option is worthless, Quick Attack is 40 base power (though Houndoom's defense ain't the best at only 50), Egg Bomb isn't very accurate with 75% accuracy, Doubleslap is lol combined with you resisting Ice Punch, only Slowbro has a decently usable move against you, Body Slam, and it's not even able to use a STAB water move. The big risk on Slowbro is Curse into Body Slam, but at this point, you should have Crunch if you kept houndour up to level 43, and that's not exactly a move psychic types wanna be getting smacked by (or maybe it would because Slowbro can use amnesia and the fact that dark types are special). Granted, you're not invincible, as I said, Houndoom has 50 base defense, so a STAB earthquake will be a problem, but generally speaking, anything that doesn't have good answers to Houndoom is gonna run into problems (at least as far as the NPC trainers are concerned). TL;DR, fire doggo go bork.
I played a custom crystal rom where houndour is available as a starter, which being my fav Pokemon I obviously went for, and he just became my main sweeper and trivialized the game lol.
You know Gen 1 Episode 2 is poorly balanced when a 'mon originally intended for Gen 1 Episode 1 isn't available in the half of Indigo that the main story of the episode that it _did_ get into occurs in.
It's interesting how you highlight that Murkrow, Misdreavus, and Houndour(and Slugma with an editor's note) were frustratingly relegated to Kanto. Turns out, this ALSO applies to Sneasel, Qwilfish, and Remoraid. Sneasel is only found in the routes leading to Mt. Silver(only relocated to Ice Path in Crystal), while you can't fish up a Remoraid or Qwilfish until you get the Super Rod, which you can only get in Kanto Route 13. The relocations of these Pokemon in HGSS were the basis for my "Day in the Limelight" playthrough I did at the end of last year.
In Crystal Sneasel can be found in the Ice Path but that's still right before the 8th gym. Qwilfish and Remoraid can be found earlier during swarms so a player could get Qwilfish soon after they get the Old Rod (and Qwilfish is pretty decent) but Remoraid is another pokemon that requires having 7 gym badges and beating the radio tower to access. Still it's disgusting how late in the game so many Gen 2 pokemon are relegated to.
@jcohasset23 I think the idea of there being "secret" post game pokemon added to the old region is a fun idea on paper, but the mon should be like a legend or sudo legend at least. Something powerful and rare not just a very weak useless mon like slugma. Like the ultra beasts you can only get post E4 in USUM is great because they are not underwhelming and limited in supply.
It was only almost impossible if Nick took part in the contest, but this is not always the case. I usually reseted until he did not participate if I needed a sun stone
Trick to beating him was catching pinsir or heracross anything less you'll lose he manages to get a freaking Scyther which you don't even encounter unless you have time to keep resetting the event
I really want Gamefreak to make a Let's Go Johto type of game where the only mons available are the families of mons that were introduced in Johto. Hell, I'll even take Morty with four Misdreavous.
I think it would be interesting if they did a Let's Go/Legends combo instead of another dual game remake. Making 2 games very different instead of the same game with slight tweaks would be a really appeaing move. Imagine a Let's Go Togepi/Marill/Whoever and Pokemon Legends: Celebi.
@@sweetheartmashupsbabe Those would of course be needed, all gen 2 Pokemon should be available, and if those include gen1 Pokemon in their line, those of course should be in too. Additionally, I don't mind actually giving the gen 4 (and later) evolutions to those that have them, but it might change the feel of course.
One gripe I have with gen 2 is how gimmicky a lot of its new Pokémon are to find,even the headbutt trees mons (heracross,pineco and Aipom)are completely missable if you don’t know that they are exclusive to the trees.Especially since tree headbutting is incredibly forgettable
I think the gimmick is nice to an extent for the “catch ‘em all” aspect, but yeah they really stuck a lot of Pokémon in weird nooks throughout the game.
@@shepskydad yeah I like it too,however when I first play through soul silver(my first ever Pokémon game) the first time I tried the headbutt trees I only found normal mons so I assumed they had nothing special causing me to miss out on the mons I mentioned.It’s a cool mechanic that brings the world to life but very missable
Even the "good" pokémon like HootHoot tend to get overshadowed by their Kanto counterparts, like Pidgey or Spearrow. This is the one thing I don't like about playing Jhoto, you're left with very few options. You REALLY gotta appreciate Butterfree after trying out pokémon like Ledian or Yanma.
It’d be interesting to play Johto with only the new Pokémon present, similar to Black and White. Not that Johto is hard anyways, but it would add a nice level of challenge.
@@shepskydad I’ve tried it! It’s why one of my favs nowadays is Dunsparce. I wasn’t crazy enough to do GSC though, so I guess I cheated with Ambipom & Yanmega
I used a butterfree once and it was quite OK actually. I tried a beedril and I can say with confidence, it was the worst pokemon I've ever used, including not fully evolved pockemon that I used from fun, like eevee.
A lot of Johto makes sense when you understand that Johto was not meant to be its own "entry" in the Pokemon franchise but rather an expansion to Kanto. The new Pokemon were not meant to stand on their own, but be cool additions to the original 151.
it's also funny to note that gen 2 really maligned a lot of gen 1 pokemon. all the fire/thunder/water/leaf stone evolvers have to wait until postgame in g/s to hit their final stage, pokemon who relied on high crit moves like persian or kingler now have pathetic damage output, and quite a few mons lost a ton of special attack or special defense when the special stat split (poor tentacruel/tangela!). i love gen 2 for its amazing vibes and gameplay additions, but its balancing is so strange...!
I couldn't believe it when they finally gave an evolution to Dunsparce, after 20 years. XD Now I really want to find one and try it out, but I keep seeing it on the minimap but not running into it. Any good places anyone knows to find it?
@@gargervon8697you can only find Dunsparce’s evolution in the wild in the post-game area, otherwise you need to level up a Dunsparce with it knowing Drill Run
Furret is also nice because it learns Surf. Convenient for the HM, but in a solo run it also doesn't have to rely on the inferior Dig or even Fire Punch for Steelix.
I think Larvitar should have been included too. Not only because you can get dratini much earlier in both Red/Blue and Gold/Silver but because you have to level up until level 55 to get a tyranitar (Being in the slow exp group). Worst of all, you get it in Mount Silver, a point where you have already beaten the 16 gym leaders the Pokemon league and likely every strong trainer in Johto and Kanto region so Who are you gonna grind with? Even if you do have enough patience to get a tyranitar the only thing you can do with it is What? Fight Red? The only way I see you can use this pokémon is transfer it to a new save file so you can have it since the beggining
Another upsetting thing about Murkrow, Misdreavus and Houndour is that there are perfect habitats for them in Johto. Murkrow could be encountered in the Dark Cave and Houndour/Misdreavus fit perfectly in the Burned Tower.
Crows don't live in caves? I think Murkrow would make the most sense as a 5% in Ilex Forest... even though crows are active in the day. Houndour could work for Burned Tower, again a 5%... But I think Misdreavus should be a 5% in the Sprout Tower at Night with Gastly... she even has the little "prayer beads" like a monk :')
I used Jumpluff for my last vanilla Crystal playthrough and it was honestly awesome! I hate to do it, but I gotta throw some shade at Steelix-- THE poster boy for the new Steel-type is not available until postgame (unless you're very savvy and know that you can get a Metal Coat from wild Magnemite) AND you need to trade, and then you're stuck with Onix's awful learnset of... Rock Throw and Sandstorm. You do not get better moves. Onix's big Level 40 move is _Slam._ Oh, but don't worry, Steelix gets a big boy bonus move! It's IRON T-- it's Crunch. Coming off of base 55 Special Attack. If you're committed to Steelix, it basically _has_ to eat all your TMs to be worthwhile, and it feels bad to burn your one and only Earthquake TM on a mon with 85 attack. A huge improvement over Onix, but are you really gonna use a Metal Coat for this guy instead of Scizor? ...well, honestly, maybe you are
winning the big catching contest is actually super easy! if you save before entering it, you can actually reset the game until you get a run where nick isn’t participating (walk around and try to find him. he always stands in the same spot in the national park when the contest is going on) and you’ll have a sun stone in no time :D
Sneasel has the Houndur, Misdreavus and Murkrow problem in gen 4. Has a brand new evolution that is faster and stronger than it and we just had the special/physical attacks split, so it can take advantage of that super attacking stat But... Is a post-game only mon, it can be found only on Mt. Silver
Looking back on it, I feel like some of the newer Pokemon introduced were seen as Pokemon that really aren't meant to be strong fighters and to be more of a nuisance or staller or have an interesting gimmick like Delibird with Present or Smeargle with Sketch. Also I believe that some of these really are meant to be rare Pokemon just to be caught and not used in battle like Dunsparce and Yanma or Hoothoot which is supposed to introduce the day night system. I also feel like they wanted to slow things down a bit in this game and make it more interactive and have more things to do rather than a whole bunch of new Pokemon. Gen 3 and Gen 2 were the generations I ended with.
Re: the Misdreavus, Houndour and Mukrow section. I think they're in the post-game so you still were suprised by finding new species this late in the game. It's a design decision that works great when the games were designed as the penultimate ones in the franchise, but unfortunately it looks silly now in retrospect when that did not happen. I do wish they had picked other mons than the only new ghost type and two of the few dark types...
Jumpluff is one of the best pokemon you can catch in Johto. Its high speed and its access to sleep powder and leech seed makes it useful in every single situation. Chikorita isn't very good against the elite 4, but it's the second best grass type in the game after Jumpluff. It is surprisingly good against Whitney's milktank, with its access to growl and reflect, it can take several rollout hits and reduce Miltank's scary attack.
Fax I’m play johto with typhtion umbreon skarmary sudowoodo (the GOAT) Lanturn and Jumpluff and I can vouch for that opinion. P.S. I used sunflora and Bellossom and sunflora is surprisingly better. As sunflora has actually grass moves and access to growth plus Bellossom only grass attack u get you don’t wanna breed is absorb (20 bace power and only 30 with stab and miracle seed) unless u get luck hidden power and Jumpluff also gets sleep powder+leech seed+that much higher speed for more utility so yeah Jumpluff>meganiam>sunflora>Bellsom
I played Gen 2 long time ago, and I used to love Jumpluff. It's a fast sleeper and leecher, and that makes it really useful. I remember having one with hidden power flying, and it was awesome.
Unless you’re playing a nuzlocke or something similar, in the main game you only need raw power and super effective moves. Jumpluff was great in competitive battles, but little useful in-game
I have used it in the game and it was the best pokemon available, and my pokemon weren't overleveled. Actually my jumpluff was 10 levels lower than lance's dragonites and jumpluff beat all of them, and Aerodactyl. It was also good against all the elite 4 members and all the gym leaders
The bug catching contest was really fun to me back then! I also won it at least twice to evolve both Bellossom and Sunflora and I also used Sunflora in my playthrough afterwards (kid me didn't know it was bad but liked it's jolly appearance).
Very cool video! I am also disappointed with how the GEN 2 Pokemons can be so bad or have limited availability. Looking forward to GEN 3! (I bet Luvdisc is top 3 if not first :D )
Cute dog! Great list again! Love your content. It feels fresh. Keep up the great work. I have a soft spot for gen 2. It felt like the wild west at the time. There weren't other generations to compare trends so all we could go off of were these games. Gold and Silver feel more like sequels to gen 1 rather than their own gens which makes sense for a few reasons. Kanto was still heavily featured. Almost half the game takes place in Kanto. With the success of gen 1, it seemed like developers didn't want to push aside any gen 1 Pokemon. I think that's why it feels like gen 2 pokemon aren't amazing. They were never supposed to stand on their own, but instead, they were only meant to compliment gen 1 mons. To me, it feels like Gold and Silver are an expansion or continuation of gen 1, while gen 3 onwards, it's almost like a soft reset.
@@shepskydad but it’s also not weak to psychic and resists ground, so that’s good. Wish the stats were different and move pool better. It’s a dancer, should be more athletic and physical oriented. It’s also basically the first regional variation.
It always bothered me how Bellossom has almost the same exact stats as Vileplume. You'd think such different looking creatures would have a very different stat spread, but no!
On my first playthrough of Crystal I decided to have Hitmontop as the fighting type of my team, I went through all the effort to cloning the Odd Eggs to get a Tyrogue that ended up being shiny, evolve it into Hitmonlee, teach it High Jump Kick and breed it so that it can pass down the move to what would become my Hitmontop. Yeah, I was that dedicated and I am the person that really wanted a Hitmontop AND make it have a good STAB move, I know, I could've just used the shiny Hitmonlee I got instead, but I can say that putting all the effort into getting to use Hitmontop was worth it. I really enjoyed the mechanics I had to learn about Gen 2 in order to get it and I even got my Hitmontop to have Hidden Power Ghost which was really lucky. I have to say though, Vitamins, while expensive, make it a lot easier to evolve Tyrogue, that part was probably one of the easier ones, but despite all of this, I really wouldn't have gone through all that effort in Gold or Silver, where you get it so late. In that case I have to agree that getting a Hitmontop would not be worth it.
Oh you went through the effort of breeding for HJK. A true fan. I’m glad that the effort you went through was enjoyable in terms of learning more about the game. Game Freak did pretty well in GSC in that regard.
Very informative and well researched. You provided a wholistic view of the Pokemon listed and explained their flaw well. Gen2 Pokemon have an unfortunate reputation for being "weak" and "worthless" and "diet versions of Gen1", but there are very few Gen2 Pokemon that are truly bad like Yanma, Delibird, Unown, Aipom. Availability came up alot in this video and you are correct. For the most part it seems that the only thing preventing much of your list from being respectable choices for an in-game playthrough is the work it takes to get them. it. I respect that Gen 2 wanted players to earn the new Pokemon, and having new Pokemon connected to new mechanics like swarms and time of day is fun and adds to the world building. But they took it too far. There is absolutely no reason for any Gen 2 Pokemon other than Larvitar to exclusive to either Kanto or Mount Silver and even Larvitar, there's an argument that it could work as as a rare Mount Mortar encounter in a room behind waterfall. Fun Fact: the Honey trees in Sinnoh were actually intended to be in Gen2 so it looks like they Gen 2 dodged a huge bullet in that regard.
At least Slugma got its redemption in HGSS by being one of the Primo egg Pokemon you can get before the first gym. If you spend the time to hatch it and train it up to level 8 to get Ember before Sprout Tower, you have a powerhouse for that early in the game. Sprout tower will level it up enough to learn Rock Throw, perfect for the first 2 gyms.
One thing that still annoys me about Houndour is that they almost fixed its availability in HGSS and just didn't. HGSS added a Safari Zone to Johto which allows you to get several Pokémon that were previously postgame exclusive (Murkrow, Misdreavus, Larvitar). Houndour is even encounterable in the Safari Zone, so you might even get excited about being able to actually use it, but the catch is that Houndour (unlike the others I listed) requires "blocks" a mechanic that only unlocks once you have the National Dex, which you do by beating the Elite Four. Meaning that you unlock the ability to place blocks in the Safari Zone at the same time you get access to Kanto and could just go catch a Houndour on Route 7, so it being available in the Safari Zone is completely pointless and doesn't let you get it any sooner.
I think HeartGold and SoulSilver are some of the most overrated games of all time. They're better than classic GSC, that's for sure. But the biggest issues that GSC had were never fixed (the shitty level curve stayed the same for the most part, at least in Johto, and the only good Johto Pokemon for the most part are still not available IN Johto). There were some good changes, but it frustrates me to no end that the biggest issues of the game weren't really addressed, or were given joke "answers" to the problems like this.
Besides the fact that they're in the post game, they're the NEW POKEMON in the OLD REGION. They are on the JOHTO Pokedex and found EXCLUSIVELY IN KANTO where they were previously UNDISCOVERED but then DISCOVERED IN JOHTO.
Thoughts on Corsola? Not available until Olivine, pretty slow and has fairly meager attacking stats. Technically available as early as after Morty but could be as late as after 6 badges. Wooper on the other hand is available as early as route 32. Tentacool and Magikarp are also available sooner and you have the Red Gyarados.
Definitely worthy of being on the list. It’s stats are underwhelming, it doesn’t have any moves to make up for those stats, and it’s easily overshadowed by other water types.
@@Surgemaster2012 Fair question! It was too niche for me to want to call it out. It's why I also don't count Pokémon like Ditto and Shedinja. Too gimmicky.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with a Fighting type in Johto. Sure, it theoretically has good matchups against both Jasmine and Pryce, but there are many Ground types available for Jasmine and even more Ice resistant Pokemon for Pryce. Edit: I forgot about Whitney, but Muscle is usually only used for that fight and then boxed because Machoke doesn't have particularly good longevity.
I remember using muscle the machoke on my team during my first playthrough of Pokémon Sliver, and it killed mostly everything in its way, mostly because it was over-leveled
Heracross should've been on this list. It gets basically no moves that normal types can't use better (Specifically Granbull and Ursaring), and only gets two Fighting type moves: Reversal and Rock Smash. But what about Megahorn? Level 54. Heracross is a damn sight better in every generation after this one, but it sucks so badly in the generation it was introduced in.
A lot of things had terrible movepools back then. Especially by level up. At least Heracross gets Megahorn. Scyther and Pinsir can’t even learn any bug type moves unless you teach them Fury Cutter (lol).
@@jimmymackinnon8474 okay but that doesn’t excuse the fact that Heracross is objectively one of the worst Pokémon to use in the game despite its good stats
I've used Heracross a decent number of times and it actually does well using Rock Smash, this is also a Gen (alongside Gen 1) where learnsets were pretty lacking in general. So with what it could use it's actually the best user of Rock Smash in the game. Heracross is also a great Pokemon, it just has a limited moveset.
You can get tyrouge early by the odd egg that the daycare couple gives you unfortunately crystal exclusive. ( you can get either a pichu, cleffa, igglybuff, tyrogue, smoochum, elekid or magby ) but after using one for a playthrough I was using pokemon I never tried before it wasn't really worth it. Mainly because I didn't hit the level for him to learn triple kick until I was well into Kanto. I feel bad for the lil guy.
GF: > Gives Yanma a higher Special Attack than Attack > Gives Yanma Bug and Flying physical typing > Gives Yanma only Normal type attacks > No evolution > 1% encounter rate > :)
Hello there, making a comment on the state of Misdreavus, Murkrow, and Houndour, as I have played both Pokemon Crystal and Gold numerous times under numerous different conditions and teams and I have, in-fact, had full playthroughs where I traded these Pokemon into my party for early game. My conclusion? I think ditching these 3 Pokemon to Kanto was intentional because they *are* that good. I know these Pokemon don't shake up the competitive Gen 2 scene, but trust me, all 3 do incredible things throughout Johto if you do have the. Misdreavus is weak with a limited level-up movepool, but it's TM learnset is quite extensive and it is a Ghost-type. This makes it an overpowered pick against the majority of trainers in the game who favor slamming you with weak Normal-type attacks. It's lack of a weakness to Ground-types means it also plays a role opposite to Gengar in being instantly available (no evolutions required) stats and the ability to more easily tank and support with is as opposed to doing damage. The AI isn't good at fighting Ghost-type and for being that type, Misdreavus is almost better than Gengar by proxy. Houndoom is a monster. It evolves really early for the stats it has and it has insanely good moves. Houndoom learns Flamethrower and Crunch by level-up and gets STAB on Bite which is very powerful in the early game. It's also incredibly fast and hits the abundance of weak Psychic-types in Johto harder than anything else. It really isn't threatened by anything, I don't see it not being overpowered if we had access to it through normal means. Murkrow isn't outstanding upon first glance, but it's mixed attacking capabilities are really useful and it is decently speedy while still having the benefits of being a Flying-Type. Plus, through breeding with Fearow, it gets access to a very powerful Drill Peck super early. Fearow by itself is really easy to access and train as well, so getting a Drill Peck Murkrow really isnt an issue at all. I had so much fun having these Pokemon on my team through the playthroughs I had access to them. They bring so much variety and spark to the team building of the region, but I absolutely have to admit that they stomped every fight they were in. They're simply too strong for Johto. I think it makes a tragic amount of sense why we don't get access to them until post-game, sadly.
I really appreciate the insight. Houndoom overpowering Johto makes total sense. It’s funny how much difficulty the AI has with Ghost types. I can see it being broken early on, but getting it around Ice Cave or Pass or whatever seems fair. I guess it just shows that the majority of Johto is weak, so even slightly above average Pokemon shine.
I feel like what SHOULD have happened is that these Pokémon were available in early Johto routes on low levels, but locked behind something like HM areas or where NPCs were blocking the way until later so that you had to go back to find them after you'd gone through a fair amount of the region. With lower levels, they'd still require the player to put some effort into levelling them up before using them and they wouldn't be able to just use them to demolish the early gyms. Then, if they ALSO appeared in Kanto for players who didn't go back to older routes, they'd see it for the first time in Kanto and it would still be a cool "Gotta Catch 'Em All" moment.
Marill/Azumarill, while not as bad as the examples in the video due to Water types having it a bit easier than others, are surprisingly bad for such an iconic Gen 2 Pokemon. Marill's stats are so low that I'm surprised it got a _baby_ in Gen 3, and it's only found in Mt. Mortar, so the fact that it learns Bubble Beam doesn't really mean anything as you'll have Surf by this point. This is also before abilities were a thing, so no Huge Power. At least it's kinda bulky and can use Surf, but there are plenty other Water types that can do the same. Quagsire is better than it in pretty much every way. It's not _bad,_ but it's not really good either and it's outclassed by a lot of other, more easily available bulky Waters.
I definitely remember Cooltrainer Nick -__- I did eventually win a sunstone back in the day, but like you said, the payoff wasn't worth it. Evolved my Sunkern into Sunflora. Yay I guess lol.
Yeah, I also got a Sunflora when I was a kid... Even back then it didn't take me long before I deposited it on the PC. Poor thing doesn't even get Leech Seed...
Snuesel is also locked in the post game kanto region which was fixed in crystal by putting him in ice cave but then unfixed in heartgold,soulsilver by only being in kanto again
It's amazing how many people claim that the first and second gen were so great [game wise] when I remember all of these horrible things cause I played these games to death growing up. These games are so buggy, so broken, and such a mess. The low encounter rates ruin certain nuzlockes because the odds are not in your favor of a bad choice. And I have watched and played so many run throughs of these games I know the pain and I don't know if I ever really want to do it again. Some of my favorite Pokemon are in this gen, and this gen made me hate them.
This is THE fatal flaw of gen 2. Almost none of the new pokemon are worth getting excited for (including the starters), and the ones that are are mostly found in Kanto or are evolutions of gen 1 pokemon. It's no coincidence that a bunch of gen 2 pokemon got new evolutions/forms in gen 4 and again in Arceus and AGAIN in gen 9. With Gastly and Abra available so early, virtually every gen 2 pokemon is outclassed from the very beginning. The free level 30 Gyarados really doesn't help highlight gen 2 pokemon either. Even most of the gym leader's ace pokemon are gen 1, in fact the only one that is a true gen 2 pokemon (not a gen 1 evolution) is Pryce with his underwhelming Piloswine. Idk what was going on during development but the vast majority of gen 2 pokemon seem like afterthoughts, just there to take up space and fill out the dex. I know this is subjective and could be said about any generation but from a design perspective a lot of them come across as very uninspired. IMO there are only about 12 gen 2 pokemon that are worth using at all in-game, not counting gen 1 evolutions or legendaries. Even with the evolutions it's no higher than 20. A pathetic number compared to the solid gen 1 pokemon in RBY and frankly every other generation too.
This is why Gen 2 is my least favorite Generation, along with the garbage exp curve. There's nothing to use; hell, I'd argue that there's even less to use in general compared to Gen 1 because it isn't worth adding anything to your team past Morty, because the wild Pokemon are so ridiculously low level that the grinding takes eons because you catch things at low level, and then have to grind them up a ridiculous number of levels on said low level Pokemon. It makes me think of Pokemon Challenges' video on why Gen 2 is his least favorite Generation as well; "What Pokemon are there by the eighth Gym? Oh look, I can pick up a level 23 Geodude! This is the eighth Gym! The only good Johto Pokemon besides the starters and Ampharos are only available in Kanto.
I still remember the struggle as a kid to get Hitmontop on my Gold copy with vitamins to make its stats the same because I really liked its design. I soon realized it was not worth at all
Kinda surprised you didn't mention Sneasel, with its dual special type paired with horrible special attack stat and late game availability, low rate encounter and low catch rate. Easily one of the worst in those games .-.
Game Freak treating the Bug type like being bad is their only purpose is so disappointing and just feels like bad design. Ariados could have been a very good support with Spider Web, if only it had good stats to function as a tank. Ledian is beyond my understanding. It's not interesting and it just doesn't work, even as an "early game tutorial Pokémon". Yanma just suffered because of Game Freak's disinterest on the Bug type. It could have been a decent low tier Pokémon otherwise.
*Bad Johto pokémon you shouldn't use that aren't mentioned in the video:* - Dunsparce (Too rare to get and really bad stats) - Shuckle (Too defensively and it's type is really bad) - Smeargle (Literally a Ditto clone and only having Sketch sucks) - Togetic (Normal/Flying sucks in this game, mediocre stats) - Wobbuffet (Only defensively, there are better Psychic types to use) - Sudowoodo (You can only get 1 after your 3rd badge and by then there are better pokémon to use) - Corsola (Cool type but only great for Surf and mediocre stats, there are better Water types, especially with the Red Gyarados) - Furret (Cool as an HM Slave but other than that lacking and Normal type is bad in this game) - Gligar (Cool type but mediocre stats and there are better pokémon for Flying or Ground type moves like Tyranitar and Crobat) - Sneasel (Maybe great for coverage against Clair but it's mediocre) - Quagsire (Great type and good for early game but lacking stats make it harder to use in later game, better use Red Gyarados) - Qwilfish (Mediocre stats and there are better Water or Poison types like Feraligatr, Red Gyarados and Crobat) - Noctowl (Great against Bugsy but after that use Crobat, Miltank or the Red Gyarados) - Octillery (Mediocre stats and there are so many Water types to use, especially if you choose Totodile) - Girafarig (Psychic is still a good type but it's mediocre stats make it bad to use) - Lanturn (You can only get Chinchou after you get the Good Rod, which is in Olivine City so after 4 badges, better options available) - Xatu (Similar to Lanturn & Quagire, it has mediocre stats and by the time you get it, you can get better options like Espeon & Crobat) - Politoed, Scizor, Porygon2, Slowking, Kingdra and all other trade evolutions (You need a link cable and another game & GameBoy for it) - Skarmory & Forretress (They're similar to Shuckle, Meganium, Wobbuffet and some others, great defensively but bad offensively) It's sad but a lot of the Johto pokémon got really mediocre stats. Larvitar would be broken to use in the game from early on so I understand that he is in the post-game (Flying-Bug-Normal-Ghost-Fighting-Steel-Ice-Dragon and a lot of Poison in TR), other than Larvitar there aren't really great Rock types. Psychic is still broken and there is a lack of Bug & Fighting type moves Ghost, & Grass are still lacking diversity and stats. Water is solid but there are some mediocre ones, better to use Feraligatr or the Red Gyarados. Fire, Ice, Rock, Normal, Electric, Poison, Flying and Ground types will have a challenging game on their hands with some struggles against at least 1 Gym. Dragon is sadly so rare to get and easily to miss. Steel & Dark are interesting types but kinda mediocre here at it's start. Will get better in later games though.
Delibird is a really horrible gimmick. It has one move by level up, brutal typing, bad coverage, and abysmal stats. It's unique move can goddamn *heal* the opposing pokemon, assuming it doesn't miss!
Another Gen 2 Pokemon I would consider for this list is Sneasel; You can't catch it until you reach Route 28 in Gold/Silver, and while it has a super unique typing in Dark/Ice, it is pretty bad defensively with 6 weaknesses and, thanks to Sneasel's pitifully low Sp Atk stat of 35, it can barely use STAB offensively either, as all Dark and Ice moves are Special prior to Gen 4.
Sneasel is catchable earlier in Crystal. Where it is found in Johto, I've used it on my many Crystal playthroughs and it's actually pretty good. Yes, this doesn't excuse its horrible stat distribution in Gen 2, but for in game? Sneasel is actually good and is one of the best users of Shadow Ball in the entire game (I'd argue the best)
I genuinely don't understand why so many new Johto Pokémon were made extremely rare AND bad. Like I understand making a strong Pokémon rare and a weaker Pokémon more common, but it feels like they purposefully went out of their way to not only introduce a smattering of viable new Pokémon (ones with good stats and moves), but then a ton of shitmons with 1% encounter rates that are found late game or post game or really obscure evolution methods (finding items like the Metal Coat can be a pain, regardless if you have nobody to trade with :'[ )
I've managed to win the Bug Catching Contest like... once or twice. ...How many times did I have to reload my save to pull it off? ...ahahahahahahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...
Jumpluff and its line easily are the worst. No offensive moves for till lvl 10 and a weak movepool. Its garbage. Also, I frequently won the contest as a kid. I just would only hunt pinsir or scyther at high levels lol
i agree 100% about how gamefreak handled houndor, murkrow and misdreavous, like why the fiddly fuck would u put them after u beat the game, at that point (at least for me) i usually dont feel like raising anymore pokemon and just fight with the ones i raised at that point, its like if u raised 5 kids when you were younger then your about 50 years old and someone hands u a small child to raise and says "hey this kids got potential to be a big celebrity" but at that point u dont fucking feel like raising em anymore..ok bad analogy but u get my point.
Yanma is a swarm pokemon. If you give your number to the right guy he'll call you up sometimes and their catch rate will be like 30% for a while. Dunsparce and Quilfish are also like this. It's basically to make the phone feature useful. They're still not worth using in battle though.
I think another terrible Pokémon is Azumarill. Without huge power it was very weak, Marill is rare, and there are a lot of water Pokémon. There is also Shuckle, which is incredibly tedious to level up, you basically have to toxic everything
I really wanted the two Pokémon in the thumbnail to be strong. I got Sunflora right away and it seemed so cool- until I realized how tough it would be to get another sunstone. Also, Aipom looked so cool!
You can tell there's a problem with Johto's pokémon when a lot of them debuted as a single stage with stats barely worthy of a middle stage, which explains why Johto keeps getting a lot of forms and/or evolutions in later gens. Also, what better way to advertise the new creatures than locking them until the post game region or make their encounter rate incredibly low in their own native region.
Slugma is still the worst imo you get it in Kanto AND it sucks, honestly should do a segment on it in the gen 3 vid since everyone thinks it's a gen 3 pokemon
"Aipom gets better later on when it evolves into Ambipon" Bro Ambipom is so bad that Smogon has *barred it from discussion.* It's so bad it's not even worth *talking about.*
It’s bad because nobody let it dropped. It was ru or Nu in gen 5 because people liked it and never stopped using it. So no, ambipom could have been *excellent* in PU for being a strong pivot.
Last point, your videos are very high quality. Don’t feel pressured to rush a video out if you’re not happy with it. This channel is ultimately something you do because you enjoy it and you get some cash from it, or eventually will. Not sure exactly how monetization works early on with a channel. Basically, release it when it’s done and you’re happy with it. Not when we’ll love it but you wanted to give more time to it.
I did a playthrough of Gen 2 using both Houndour/Houndoom and Murkrow. I need to give a little background to explain: I played Gold first, and I beat the game with mostly Gen 1 Pokémon. I didn't think I was giving the Gen 2 Pokémon their fair chance, so I resolved to play through Silver with Gen 2 Pokémon only. I wanted to take advantage of the fact that I'd already beaten the game with Gold, so I got to Goldenrod with the Cyndaquil/Typhlozee starter and a Mareep/Flaapy, and then traded an Octillery, Houndoom, and Murkrow over from Gold. I had those three breed eggs with a Ditto, and then hatched the eggs. This meant I was around halfway through the game by the time I had my full team of 5 assembled, which is my usual goal anyway. And it went fine. I had no trouble at all beating the game with that team. But it was completely forgettable. It was a long, complicated setup to make it work, involving having already beaten the game, and I can remember more about what I did to set it up than I can about how it went afterwards. Truth be told, I don't enjoy Gen 2 as much as I do Gen 1, and when I play Gen 2, I seem to enjoy doing it more with Gen 1 Pokémon. My own personal classic teams always seem more fun to me than anything else.
I, as a kid LOVED SO MUCH THE BUG CATCHING CONTEST, NO JOKE. I remember spending all my post game tryin to win the contest when it was on. Dunno why i love it so much even now. Maybe cause Bug is my favorire type, or because Sunflora was my fav Pokémon when i was 10; dunno tbh.
I love how two of the pokemon on this list were part of my recent gen 2 nuzlocke team! Aipom actually carried through the second and third gym thanks to sand-attack, but did eventually get benched. Sunflora was useful during Kanto, but can definitely see how it's availability would hurt it greatly in a normal game.
I would have included Entei. I realize that's a slightly weird choice considering it's a legendary but it's a fire type whose attack is 25 points higher than it's special attack in a generation where fire moves are all considered special. So it doesn't have the hitting power you'd really want from a legendary Pokemon in my opinion and it's part of a trio that is a pain in the $%@ to catch. So you'd expect it to be a lot better for all of the effort you need to put in to capture it.
I know I'm late but great video. I agree with you 998%. 1. I love the bug catching contest 2. I had a beast sunkern bro , you couldn't tell him nothing. He was messing up fire pokemon as if they were after pokemon. But seriously, it's so frustrating that there are so many enjoyable Pokemon that we can never truly experience them as starter pokemon. I use no cheats or hacks or glitches, I play for myself and my own enjoyment so I play by the games rules. With that said I have played the game countless times and so to make it interesting I am choosing all the Pokemon that are never the first choice as a winner team. You can imagine how that is going. So many different options of a team thrown into the post game which unfortunately in my opinion is not as much fun as the beginning journey. Thank you for the video and for reading this.
Please make more videos ❤ I keep rewatching your content all the time. It’s made with so much love, you can tell you pass a long time dedicating yourself on making such a great content. But I can’t help but feeling like I need more of it 😍❤️
I love these videos, before someone else beats me to it i'm going to nominate one of my favorites for the gen 3 video: Aggron. While it may have solid attack and defense it has horrendous stats everywhere else and a typing that makes it keel over to everything in its debut gen. You can first catch it inside the cave near brawly's gym, but using it there is a death sentence due to its quadruple weakness to fighting moves. lt is weak to water, in a region that is 70% water. It technically has no advantage against any gym due to not learning rock moves and only being able to be acquired after you beat the one gym it could destroy (roxanne's). Evolves at level 32 then 42 on top of having a slow growth rate, meaning you'll have a fully evolved starter by the time this thing gets out of its baby phase. It doesn't learn any rock moves by level up, and the few metal ones it gets are unreliable (metal claw is weak, iron tail has 70% accuracy, metal sound is a status move). On the upside it does learn a ton of TMs, but nearly all of them are special. You could give it earthquake, but why waste it on him when one of the starters learns it by level up and you could put it to better use on one of the two pseudo legendaries? Both of its abilities are worthless, in gen 3 sturdy just protects you from instakill moves and rock head can only negate damage from double edge (normal type, meaning no STAB, although funnily enough it does outdamage every other physical move it can learn except for iron tail).
Based on the manga Kris was the capturer. I think that’s why Joto has so many one percent encounters, and Pokémon like Natu and Lapras who are hidden in little nooks and crannies. I think the point of the game was not to have a super overpowered team but to complete a decks you know gotta catch them all and what not
I hate to say it, but Gen 2 is the worst (I haven’t played Gen 9 but I can’t imagine it being worse) when it comes to usable new Pokémon. The easily found ones tend to suck, and the best ones are either hard as fuck to find or post game for no goddamn good reason. I’m glad at least some of them got MUCH better later on with both new types, evolutions in latter gens, physical/special split, etc
Sneasel. It has the same issue as Houndour, Murkrow and especially Misdreavus in that it's only available in Mt. Silver in GS. In addition, it's a Dark/Ice type (two types that run on SpAtk) with only 35 base SpAtk. It has high speed and decent attack, but not a lot of coverage options
You forgot to mention that ghost type moves were only pshysical before gen 4 so Misdreavus was useless and by the time there were special ghost type moves it already got an evolution, same with Yanma and Sneasel since their types, bug and flying were only physical and dark and ice were only special and when they could make use of their stats in gen 4, they also got an evolution.
Gen 2 has always given me "expansion DLC" vibes. Most of the available roster is just gen1 mons, a ton of the new mons were straight up unusable, and johto is remembered mainly because it's right next to Kanto...
Gen 2, more than any other, feels like it's full of Pokemon that are great for "flavour" purposes, but don't actually have any reason to use them in-game. Some of it might be because they wanted the Pokemon to exist for other reasons (this was the first generation after the anime became a huge hit, for example). Some of it might be the game's long and troubled development, they may not have had as much time to balance the movepools and placements as they should have. And some of it might be that they were still emphasizing "gotta catch 'em all" at this time - a Pokemon being rare and difficult to find could be its entire point.
I feel like some of them had evolutions that just couldn't be fit in the game (in fact, we know that cuz of the spaceworld demo). 151 pokemon already existed and they all had to be transferable. We know that the games final form is packed to the brim in terms of cartridge space
I think it’s good regardless, gives it a feeling of a more realistic world
Gamefreak is full of incompetent people. Look no further than that.
I think they also wanted to make sure everything got utilized... Like the Day/Night system and the Swarm mechanic.
It's too bad that many of the Swarm Pokemon are very mediocre, and a vast majority of the good Night Pokemon are locked to Kanto...
One other thing I forgot to mention is that there was no concept of "regional Pokemon" in Gen 2. It was simply the entire Pokedex. If a niche was already covered by a Pokemon from Gen 1, they would simply use that Pokemon instead of creating a new one. The new mons are only meant to fill in the gaps. Which means there's not so many big and powerful Pokemon - those niches were already covered in RBY.
To list some examples:
- Only generation that didn't create a new regional bird, regional rat, regional big, and regional pseudolegendary dragon. We get something entirely new, Tyranitar, as the new powerhouse instead. (Hoothoot does not play the role of local bird, it fills the new role of representing the Day/Night mechanic.)
- Gym Leaders use iconic gen 1 Pokemon as their aces unless there's a specific reason not to. Jasmine doesn't because her type is new (although even her ace is an evolution of Onix). Clair doesn't because they wanted two dragon specialists and couldn't give her the best one. And Pryce doesn't because the generation had to introduce an Ice-type boss monster to make up for RBY's extremely underwhelming ice types. Whitney is the only one who they gave a new Pokemon as an ace when they had the option to give her an old one.
- Significant new lore is built around old pokemon like Bellsprout, Slowpoke, Magikarp, Dratini. New Pokemon like Ampharos are used only when there's no existing mon suitable for the story point.
- The starters are the only counterexample, where they really did introduce a Pokemon whose role is the same as one from a previous generation.
I am genuinely upset at how late you can get Houndour, the burned tower was the perfect location for its appearance, falls on the theme of the place and seems as a reliable choice against Morty's ghost pokemon, i've used one for my Pokemon Scarlet playthrough and i love it so much despite its flaws. Also, does anyone else think Morty should have Misdreavus in its team?
I’m glad someone agrees. Houndour would have been a great early game fire type. And Misdreavus for sure should have been on the team. It’s crazy that there isn’t one in the whole gym.
@@shepskydad half of the Johto Gym Leaders don't even use any Gen II 'mons 🙃
@@brachy6695 Whitney does have a Miltank, but yeah, no Hoothoot for Falkner? No Spinarak, Ledyba, or Pineco for Bugsy? C'mon.
I can just use Ninetales and Umbreon anyway, also I don't remember which building in Goldenrod City where I got my free gift Eevee.
@@KraggFair Whitney, Jasmine, Pryce, and Clair are the only ones that even use a Gen 2 Pokémon 🙄
I'm one of those people who thought slugma was a gen3 pokemon because you find it early in emerald and I never saw it in gen2. I only realized it was gen2 after making a ROM hack and discovering where it's encountered. Was surprised it wasn't grouped with the other three before the edit. Developers make some questionable decisions for sure.
I only discovered a few days ago that Misdreavous is a gen 2 pokemon after seeing it in footage of Pokemon stadium 2
@@grahamscott7308That's weird. Misdreavus was rare in the game, but it was so heavily advertised and featured in the show back in the days that I actually think of it as one of the first when I think of "gen 2 Pokemon"
What ROM hack, if you don't mind me asking? 👀
I know Misdraves was gen 2 because of the Pokemon Master Quest anine.
Lol same here😂
The Gen 2 dex is flooded with a lot of really poorly balanced mons, that I have to blame on the Special Def. split. They probably didn't want to create overpowered mons like they had with Special Juggernaut Alakazam, Uber bulky sweeper Tauros, or "I'll use whatever damn move I want" Nidoking, so they aired on the side of caution, and made most mons have very balanced stats. Compare this to the Gen 5 minmaxers like Archeops, Excadrill, Darmanitan and Sawk, who are easily obtained throughout the game and put the beatdown on everyone. Other than Heracross, the other two starters (not Chikorita, sorry :3), Espeon and Ampharos, you're better off slapping the game with gen 1 mons. A simple core of Graveler (Golem with trades), Kadabra (Alakazam with trades), Red Gyarados, etc. just blasts the entire Johto league to smithereens.
Can do one better: Just run Lapras solo; Lapras alone slaughters all of Lance's team.
It's a huge shame too because gen 2 has most of my favorite mon designs. I feel bad not wanting to use a design I love over another, better pokemon well suited to that role 😢
nah they really nerfed Gyarados in Gen 2.
I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention Dunsparce. 10-year-old me was ecstatic when I ran into one and caught it outside of a swarm, and subsequently disappointed when I learned that it can't do anything
Tbh it’s a toss up between Aipom and Dunsparce for the worse normal type. You can make a good case either way. I didn’t want my boy Dunsparce to get more hate than he already does lol. He is pretty disappointing though.
And shackle
@@shepskydad I always used my Dunces for status infliction. I don't know why, but the Dunsparce I first got back in Pokemon Gold was tanky as heck, and always came in clutch on switch ins. I know he's not the best, but he saved me multiple times. Dunsparce the true unsung hero.
How dare you badmouth dunsparce. He's Gods gift to man lol
@@walrusArmageddon preaching to the choir in this one boss. In every game he's in, he's got a place on my team. Always named him "Stubs".
All this time thinking Slugma was a Gen 3 Pokémon lol
nah fr
Me with skarmory for the longest time
SAME BRO
@@shen4385same lol haha
Skarmory and azumarill too
One thing I think you left out worth mention was that Yanma was one of the six swarm Pokémon in GS (alongside Marill, Snubbull, Remoraid, Qwilfish, and Dunsparce), so the issue of its rarity could be mitigated if you got a lucky phone call from an NPC. Still doesn't make Yanma any more forgivable, but...
Fair point! I always forget about those mechanics in Gen 2. I appreciate the swarm Pokémon for the “catch ‘em all” aspect, but they should have been good Pokémon lol
@@shepskydad These are the Pokkemon I would add for worst of Gen 3
-Nosepass = Weak stats and how you obtain is so obscure. Even though it is traceable on the Pokedex, the game never tells the player that you need to have rock smash in order to make it spawn. Which can mislead the player despite it being encountered at Granite Cave. It doesn't help your only exposure to it is through Roxanne.
-Mawile = While Sableye, the counterpart also has low stats I think its typing actually does a lot for the player in game. Using one myself a lot it proved to be useful, as a lot of trainers use normal, fighting, poison or ghost/dark moves, so its resistances come in handy. It can also learn Shadow Ball, allowing another team member to use the TM, which adds more diversity for fighting say Phoebe. Mawile on the other hand has no advantages with its type, as it's outclassed by Aggron and is a version exclusive. Where in Emerald (the definitive version) can't even be obtained until victory road, so not only is it unusable, you can't even catch it at a point to use it.
- Luvdisc =Self explanatory. Worst stats in the game as well as the worst movepull I'd argue (Magikarp doesn't count since that's intentional) plus it can only be obtained right in front of Ever Grande City, the Pokemon league! Why on earth would you use it, let along the league?
-Mightyena = Honestly the worst Dark type in the game. even Sableye will do more for you. While Intimidate is nice that's really all it has and is outclassed holy by Absol. Who could do anything you wanted Mightyena to do, but better.
-Shedinja = Has the worst boss spread in the game and too many battles carry its weakness to be of any use. It also has awful stats aside base 90 attack
-Beldum = Can't get until postgame and is super weak until it evolves
- Swalot - The worst of the Poison type options, which is sad because it's the only exclusive Hoenn Poison type. But there's not much it offers over the other options like Tentacruel, Weezing, Muk or Crobat.
-Delcatty - Skitty is rare, and when you get it Delcatty's stats are super unhelpful and won't do anything other normal types wouldn't. it has a surpingly shallow movepool for a Normal type, you're better off with Exploud.
Yeah, I think I caught my Yanma during a swarm event.
@@Surgemaster2012I love shedinja, it may not always be great, but it's a fun gimmick. Also in the right circumstances, it can make certain battles free because nothing CAN hit it.
As a kid I caught that scyther, won the bug catching competition, and traded with my step brother to evolve it into a scizor. I used him in my playthrough and he was my favorite pokemon for a long time. Sheer luck I’m sure, never realized it was so tough.
I would always do it as a kid, I just kept resetting until I got a Scyther/Pinsir, actually enjoyed it
It's not that tough. I won it all the time as a kid. As long as you can get a Scyther or Pinsir, you'll win. I always found this one patch where I encountered them (not sure if this was actually legit or just my kid-level logic).
I want to assume it doesn't actually work like that but also Feebas exists@@ryuuseiSoul
The trick is to reset until you get a contest without Nick. Save, go in, and if Nick is there, just reset and try again.
Why? @@MaxRavenclaw
I have used Houndour/Houndoom for a playthrough. I traded a Houndour over from Crystal Version to Silver Version to try something new and I didn't regret it. My fiery demon doggo basically carried me through the whole game, and I just wondered "Why not let us catch one in Johto?" I felt it was a great substitute for Growlithe or even Cyndaquil if used properly
This comment is gonna be fun. Sorry if I waffle too much in advance, this stuff is very interesting to me.
I half wonder if you might have inadvertently answered your own question. They might have thought it was too powerful to allow you to catch it in Johto.
Houndour and Houndoom have pretty good special attack, and due to the goofballs at gamefreak making dark type moves special, that means Houndoom uses its 110 base sp Attack to throw out STAB 80 base power Crunches. BTW, the only other pokemon in the game with STAB Crunch is Tyranitar, which isn't available until the endgame and hilariously has a lower special attack, and the only other dark move to reach 80 base power is pursuit, and that requires the opponent to switch out, which most opponents don't seem to do in this game. Needless to say, Crunch is the best dark move in the game.
Someone else on this video suggested putting them in burned tower, and this would mean being able to beat up Morty with a STAB Bite, while being resistant to the ghost type attacks of Morty's mons.
It also means being able to tell Will to get stuffed because his pokemon have limited options against you. Psychic does nothing to you, so their best STAB option is worthless, Quick Attack is 40 base power (though Houndoom's defense ain't the best at only 50), Egg Bomb isn't very accurate with 75% accuracy, Doubleslap is lol combined with you resisting Ice Punch, only Slowbro has a decently usable move against you, Body Slam, and it's not even able to use a STAB water move. The big risk on Slowbro is Curse into Body Slam, but at this point, you should have Crunch if you kept houndour up to level 43, and that's not exactly a move psychic types wanna be getting smacked by (or maybe it would because Slowbro can use amnesia and the fact that dark types are special).
Granted, you're not invincible, as I said, Houndoom has 50 base defense, so a STAB earthquake will be a problem, but generally speaking, anything that doesn't have good answers to Houndoom is gonna run into problems (at least as far as the NPC trainers are concerned).
TL;DR, fire doggo go bork.
I played a custom crystal rom where houndour is available as a starter, which being my fav Pokemon I obviously went for, and he just became my main sweeper and trivialized the game lol.
You know Gen 1 Episode 2 is poorly balanced when a 'mon originally intended for Gen 1 Episode 1 isn't available in the half of Indigo that the main story of the episode that it _did_ get into occurs in.
It's interesting how you highlight that Murkrow, Misdreavus, and Houndour(and Slugma with an editor's note) were frustratingly relegated to Kanto. Turns out, this ALSO applies to Sneasel, Qwilfish, and Remoraid. Sneasel is only found in the routes leading to Mt. Silver(only relocated to Ice Path in Crystal), while you can't fish up a Remoraid or Qwilfish until you get the Super Rod, which you can only get in Kanto Route 13. The relocations of these Pokemon in HGSS were the basis for my "Day in the Limelight" playthrough I did at the end of last year.
I didn’t remember this at all 😮
That explains why I never used Octillery which was one of my fav Pokémon.
At least you fished them at level 40
In Crystal Sneasel can be found in the Ice Path but that's still right before the 8th gym. Qwilfish and Remoraid can be found earlier during swarms so a player could get Qwilfish soon after they get the Old Rod (and Qwilfish is pretty decent) but Remoraid is another pokemon that requires having 7 gym badges and beating the radio tower to access. Still it's disgusting how late in the game so many Gen 2 pokemon are relegated to.
Day in the Limelight playthrough?
@jcohasset23 I think the idea of there being "secret" post game pokemon added to the old region is a fun idea on paper, but the mon should be like a legend or sudo legend at least. Something powerful and rare not just a very weak useless mon like slugma.
Like the ultra beasts you can only get post E4 in USUM is great because they are not underwhelming and limited in supply.
i think i fished a remoraid in the area next to mahogany town. I used a good rod and they were lvl 25
I won the bug contest as a kid, but I also loved the mechanic. Constantly travelled back to get it.
I think I was just inept as a kid lol
It was only almost impossible if Nick took part in the contest, but this is not always the case. I usually reseted until he did not participate if I needed a sun stone
Trick to beating him was catching pinsir or heracross anything less you'll lose he manages to get a freaking Scyther which you don't even encounter unless you have time to keep resetting the event
@@AKW91 you needed the highest level Pinsir or Scyther to beat him. I got to beat him a few times.
@@shepskydadYeah... you asked us to be honest, but I did win that contest many times as a kid 😅
I really want Gamefreak to make a Let's Go Johto type of game where the only mons available are the families of mons that were introduced in Johto. Hell, I'll even take Morty with four Misdreavous.
I think it would be interesting if they did a Let's Go/Legends combo instead of another dual game remake. Making 2 games very different instead of the same game with slight tweaks would be a really appeaing move. Imagine a Let's Go Togepi/Marill/Whoever and Pokemon Legends: Celebi.
God I’d kill for let’s go jhoto
What about the cross gen evos like crobat and bellossom? Those very much deserve to be in the game as well
@@sweetheartmashupsbabe Those would of course be needed, all gen 2 Pokemon should be available, and if those include gen1 Pokemon in their line, those of course should be in too. Additionally, I don't mind actually giving the gen 4 (and later) evolutions to those that have them, but it might change the feel of course.
Dude what about Pokémon Red/blue etc with every single Pokémon available? Like ever gen
One gripe I have with gen 2 is how gimmicky a lot of its new Pokémon are to find,even the headbutt trees mons (heracross,pineco and Aipom)are completely missable if you don’t know that they are exclusive to the trees.Especially since tree headbutting is incredibly forgettable
I think the gimmick is nice to an extent for the “catch ‘em all” aspect, but yeah they really stuck a lot of Pokémon in weird nooks throughout the game.
@@shepskydad yeah I like it too,however when I first play through soul silver(my first ever Pokémon game) the first time I tried the headbutt trees I only found normal mons so I assumed they had nothing special causing me to miss out on the mons I mentioned.It’s a cool mechanic that brings the world to life but very missable
Even the "good" pokémon like HootHoot tend to get overshadowed by their Kanto counterparts, like Pidgey or Spearrow. This is the one thing I don't like about playing Jhoto, you're left with very few options.
You REALLY gotta appreciate Butterfree after trying out pokémon like Ledian or Yanma.
It’d be interesting to play Johto with only the new Pokémon present, similar to Black and White. Not that Johto is hard anyways, but it would add a nice level of challenge.
hoothoot learns hypnosis tho, and johto is like an extension of kanto so the same mons is kl
@@shepskydad I’ve tried it! It’s why one of my favs nowadays is Dunsparce. I wasn’t crazy enough to do GSC though, so I guess I cheated with Ambipom & Yanmega
The Pigdey line isn't good and Noctowl, while not good has better status and utility than the Pidgey line
I used a butterfree once and it was quite OK actually. I tried a beedril and I can say with confidence, it was the worst pokemon I've ever used, including not fully evolved pockemon that I used from fun, like eevee.
A lot of Johto makes sense when you understand that Johto was not meant to be its own "entry" in the Pokemon franchise but rather an expansion to Kanto. The new Pokemon were not meant to stand on their own, but be cool additions to the original 151.
👏PREACH👏
Still sucks, could have been a thing they addressed in the remakes
and yet they're still a mess
Not a valid excuse to create trash mons like these
I mean that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense? Shouldn’t be trash.
it's also funny to note that gen 2 really maligned a lot of gen 1 pokemon. all the fire/thunder/water/leaf stone evolvers have to wait until postgame in g/s to hit their final stage, pokemon who relied on high crit moves like persian or kingler now have pathetic damage output, and quite a few mons lost a ton of special attack or special defense when the special stat split (poor tentacruel/tangela!). i love gen 2 for its amazing vibes and gameplay additions, but its balancing is so strange...!
gen 1: alpha
Gen 2: Beta
Gen 3: Public testing
Gen 4: Preliminary Release
Gen 5: First Expansion.
Before talking with the guard, save. Enter the Bug Catching Contest. See if Nick is there, if he is reset. Also always catch the Pokémon with full hp.
Literally what I was thinking while watching
Yea idk why he's making such a big deal about it. I never had troubke with the bug catching contest when I first played at age 5
I'm glad that many forgotten or awful Johto mons are getting so much love lately, both in Legends Arceus and Scarlet/Violet.
They really deserve it tbh
I couldn't believe it when they finally gave an evolution to Dunsparce, after 20 years. XD Now I really want to find one and try it out, but I keep seeing it on the minimap but not running into it. Any good places anyone knows to find it?
@@gargervon8697you can only find Dunsparce’s evolution in the wild in the post-game area, otherwise you need to level up a Dunsparce with it knowing Drill Run
I still want an mega typhlosion btw :')
Love? Poor dunsparce just got bullied with that joke evolution
Furret is also nice because it learns Surf. Convenient for the HM, but in a solo run it also doesn't have to rely on the inferior Dig or even Fire Punch for Steelix.
I don't believe in bad Pokémon, only inept game designers.
💯
Hoppip's hilarious grind is worth mentioning as well. You'd think he'd be a grass Gyarados, but he's a Jumpluff LOL
Gyarados primed people to go “Oh a Pokémon with Splash? Surely this will be worth it in the long run!”
I wanna live in the world where Jumppluff is an absolute beast stat wise
Sunflora is my ironic favourite Pokémon solely because my grandmother loved it
I think Larvitar should have been included too. Not only because you can get dratini much earlier in both Red/Blue and Gold/Silver but because you have to level up until level 55 to get a tyranitar (Being in the slow exp group). Worst of all, you get it in Mount Silver, a point where you have already beaten the 16 gym leaders the Pokemon league and likely every strong trainer in Johto and Kanto region so Who are you gonna grind with? Even if you do have enough patience to get a tyranitar the only thing you can do with it is What? Fight Red? The only way I see you can use this pokémon is transfer it to a new save file so you can have it since the beggining
Great video and series. Really detailed analysis. Hope you'll make one for gen 3 and others!
3:32 Dude, have you ever tried to hit a dragonfly with a fist-sized plastic ball? They're fast.
Another upsetting thing about Murkrow, Misdreavus and Houndour is that there are perfect habitats for them in Johto.
Murkrow could be encountered in the Dark Cave and Houndour/Misdreavus fit perfectly in the Burned Tower.
Like most johto pokemon, they live in kanto
Crows don't live in caves? I think Murkrow would make the most sense as a 5% in Ilex Forest... even though crows are active in the day.
Houndour could work for Burned Tower, again a 5%...
But I think Misdreavus should be a 5% in the Sprout Tower at Night with Gastly... she even has the little "prayer beads" like a monk :')
I used Jumpluff for my last vanilla Crystal playthrough and it was honestly awesome!
I hate to do it, but I gotta throw some shade at Steelix-- THE poster boy for the new Steel-type is not available until postgame (unless you're very savvy and know that you can get a Metal Coat from wild Magnemite) AND you need to trade, and then you're stuck with Onix's awful learnset of...
Rock Throw and Sandstorm. You do not get better moves. Onix's big Level 40 move is _Slam._ Oh, but don't worry, Steelix gets a big boy bonus move! It's IRON T-- it's Crunch. Coming off of base 55 Special Attack. If you're committed to Steelix, it basically _has_ to eat all your TMs to be worthwhile, and it feels bad to burn your one and only Earthquake TM on a mon with 85 attack. A huge improvement over Onix, but are you really gonna use a Metal Coat for this guy instead of Scizor? ...well, honestly, maybe you are
winning the big catching contest is actually super easy!
if you save before entering it, you can actually reset the game until you get a run where nick isn’t participating (walk around and try to find him. he always stands in the same spot in the national park when the contest is going on) and you’ll have a sun stone in no time :D
It only took me an hour to get first place. Idk if I beat nick or not but I got my bellosom with little issue.
Sneasel has the Houndur, Misdreavus and Murkrow problem in gen 4.
Has a brand new evolution that is faster and stronger than it and we just had the special/physical attacks split, so it can take advantage of that super attacking stat
But... Is a post-game only mon, it can be found only on Mt. Silver
Looking back on it, I feel like some of the newer Pokemon introduced were seen as Pokemon that really aren't meant to be strong fighters and to be more of a nuisance or staller or have an interesting gimmick like Delibird with Present or Smeargle with Sketch. Also I believe that some of these really are meant to be rare Pokemon just to be caught and not used in battle like Dunsparce and Yanma or Hoothoot which is supposed to introduce the day night system. I also feel like they wanted to slow things down a bit in this game and make it more interactive and have more things to do rather than a whole bunch of new Pokemon. Gen 3 and Gen 2 were the generations I ended with.
1:53 Well that certainly aged.
Yeah, definitely.
Re: the Misdreavus, Houndour and Mukrow section. I think they're in the post-game so you still were suprised by finding new species this late in the game. It's a design decision that works great when the games were designed as the penultimate ones in the franchise, but unfortunately it looks silly now in retrospect when that did not happen. I do wish they had picked other mons than the only new ghost type and two of the few dark types...
Jumpluff is one of the best pokemon you can catch in Johto. Its high speed and its access to sleep powder and leech seed makes it useful in every single situation. Chikorita isn't very good against the elite 4, but it's the second best grass type in the game after Jumpluff. It is surprisingly good against Whitney's milktank, with its access to growl and reflect, it can take several rollout hits and reduce Miltank's scary attack.
Fax I’m play johto with typhtion umbreon skarmary sudowoodo (the GOAT) Lanturn and Jumpluff and I can vouch for that opinion. P.S. I used sunflora and Bellossom and sunflora is surprisingly better. As sunflora has actually grass moves and access to growth plus Bellossom only grass attack u get you don’t wanna breed is absorb (20 bace power and only 30 with stab and miracle seed) unless u get luck hidden power and Jumpluff also gets sleep powder+leech seed+that much higher speed for more utility so yeah Jumpluff>meganiam>sunflora>Bellsom
I played Gen 2 long time ago, and I used to love Jumpluff. It's a fast sleeper and leecher, and that makes it really useful. I remember having one with hidden power flying, and it was awesome.
Unless you’re playing a nuzlocke or something similar, in the main game you only need raw power and super effective moves. Jumpluff was great in competitive battles, but little useful in-game
I have used it in the game and it was the best pokemon available, and my pokemon weren't overleveled. Actually my jumpluff was 10 levels lower than lance's dragonites and jumpluff beat all of them, and Aerodactyl. It was also good against all the elite 4 members and all the gym leaders
The bug catching contest was really fun to me back then! I also won it at least twice to evolve both Bellossom and Sunflora and I also used Sunflora in my playthrough afterwards (kid me didn't know it was bad but liked it's jolly appearance).
Very cool video! I am also disappointed with how the GEN 2 Pokemons can be so bad or have limited availability. Looking forward to GEN 3! (I bet Luvdisc is top 3 if not first :D )
Cute dog! Great list again! Love your content. It feels fresh. Keep up the great work.
I have a soft spot for gen 2. It felt like the wild west at the time. There weren't other generations to compare trends so all we could go off of were these games. Gold and Silver feel more like sequels to gen 1 rather than their own gens which makes sense for a few reasons. Kanto was still heavily featured. Almost half the game takes place in Kanto. With the success of gen 1, it seemed like developers didn't want to push aside any gen 1 Pokemon. I think that's why it feels like gen 2 pokemon aren't amazing. They were never supposed to stand on their own, but instead, they were only meant to compliment gen 1 mons. To me, it feels like Gold and Silver are an expansion or continuation of gen 1, while gen 3 onwards, it's almost like a soft reset.
I never realized that Bellossom loses its poison type when it evolved
In some ways it’s beneficial, but overall I feel like the STAB from poison moves is sorely missed.
@@shepskydad but it’s also not weak to psychic and resists ground, so that’s good. Wish the stats were different and move pool better. It’s a dancer, should be more athletic and physical oriented.
It’s also basically the first regional variation.
It always bothered me how Bellossom has almost the same exact stats as Vileplume. You'd think such different looking creatures would have a very different stat spread, but no!
Return/Sludge Bomb Bellossom goes crazy @@ostradiemgi5469
12:44 I do not remember the bug catching contest being difficult as a kid and had more sun stones than I knew what to do with.
On my first playthrough of Crystal I decided to have Hitmontop as the fighting type of my team, I went through all the effort to cloning the Odd Eggs to get a Tyrogue that ended up being shiny, evolve it into Hitmonlee, teach it High Jump Kick and breed it so that it can pass down the move to what would become my Hitmontop.
Yeah, I was that dedicated and I am the person that really wanted a Hitmontop AND make it have a good STAB move, I know, I could've just used the shiny Hitmonlee I got instead, but I can say that putting all the effort into getting to use Hitmontop was worth it. I really enjoyed the mechanics I had to learn about Gen 2 in order to get it and I even got my Hitmontop to have Hidden Power Ghost which was really lucky.
I have to say though, Vitamins, while expensive, make it a lot easier to evolve Tyrogue, that part was probably one of the easier ones, but despite all of this, I really wouldn't have gone through all that effort in Gold or Silver, where you get it so late. In that case I have to agree that getting a Hitmontop would not be worth it.
Oh you went through the effort of breeding for HJK. A true fan. I’m glad that the effort you went through was enjoyable in terms of learning more about the game. Game Freak did pretty well in GSC in that regard.
@@shepskydad Gen 2 also have a nice quirk at using egg moves for in game teams or breeding.
Hitmontop is always worth it
I'm amazed you managed to do all that on your first playthrough.
Very informative and well researched. You provided a wholistic view of the Pokemon listed and explained their flaw well.
Gen2 Pokemon have an unfortunate reputation for being "weak" and "worthless" and "diet versions of Gen1", but there are very few Gen2 Pokemon that are truly bad like Yanma, Delibird, Unown, Aipom. Availability came up alot in this video and you are correct. For the most part it seems that the only thing preventing much of your list from being respectable choices for an in-game playthrough is the work it takes to get them. it. I respect that Gen 2 wanted players to earn the new Pokemon, and having new Pokemon connected to new mechanics like swarms and time of day is fun and adds to the world building. But they took it too far. There is absolutely no reason for any Gen 2 Pokemon other than Larvitar to exclusive to either Kanto or Mount Silver and even Larvitar, there's an argument that it could work as as a rare Mount Mortar encounter in a room behind waterfall.
Fun Fact: the Honey trees in Sinnoh were actually intended to be in Gen2 so it looks like they Gen 2 dodged a huge bullet in that regard.
Oh god Gen 2 Honey trees sound like an absolute nightmare.
What if every Pokemon was easily obtainable in every game? And if multi-trades existed throughout the series?
At least Slugma got its redemption in HGSS by being one of the Primo egg Pokemon you can get before the first gym. If you spend the time to hatch it and train it up to level 8 to get Ember before Sprout Tower, you have a powerhouse for that early in the game. Sprout tower will level it up enough to learn Rock Throw, perfect for the first 2 gyms.
One thing that still annoys me about Houndour is that they almost fixed its availability in HGSS and just didn't.
HGSS added a Safari Zone to Johto which allows you to get several Pokémon that were previously postgame exclusive (Murkrow, Misdreavus, Larvitar). Houndour is even encounterable in the Safari Zone, so you might even get excited about being able to actually use it, but the catch is that Houndour (unlike the others I listed) requires "blocks" a mechanic that only unlocks once you have the National Dex, which you do by beating the Elite Four.
Meaning that you unlock the ability to place blocks in the Safari Zone at the same time you get access to Kanto and could just go catch a Houndour on Route 7, so it being available in the Safari Zone is completely pointless and doesn't let you get it any sooner.
I think HeartGold and SoulSilver are some of the most overrated games of all time. They're better than classic GSC, that's for sure. But the biggest issues that GSC had were never fixed (the shitty level curve stayed the same for the most part, at least in Johto, and the only good Johto Pokemon for the most part are still not available IN Johto).
There were some good changes, but it frustrates me to no end that the biggest issues of the game weren't really addressed, or were given joke "answers" to the problems like this.
Besides the fact that they're in the post game, they're the NEW POKEMON in the OLD REGION. They are on the JOHTO Pokedex and found EXCLUSIVELY IN KANTO where they were previously UNDISCOVERED but then DISCOVERED IN JOHTO.
Thoughts on Corsola? Not available until Olivine, pretty slow and has fairly meager attacking stats.
Technically available as early as after Morty but could be as late as after 6 badges. Wooper on the other hand is available as early as route 32. Tentacool and Magikarp are also available sooner and you have the Red Gyarados.
Definitely worthy of being on the list. It’s stats are underwhelming, it doesn’t have any moves to make up for those stats, and it’s easily overshadowed by other water types.
Misty made it seem good
@@shepskydad Corsola's moves aren't bad, it's just those stats.
@@shepskydad Where is Shuckle?
@@Surgemaster2012 Fair question! It was too niche for me to want to call it out. It's why I also don't count Pokémon like Ditto and Shedinja. Too gimmicky.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with a Fighting type in Johto. Sure, it theoretically has good matchups against both Jasmine and Pryce, but there are many Ground types available for Jasmine and even more Ice resistant Pokemon for Pryce.
Edit: I forgot about Whitney, but Muscle is usually only used for that fight and then boxed because Machoke doesn't have particularly good longevity.
I remember using muscle the machoke on my team during my first playthrough of Pokémon Sliver, and it killed mostly everything in its way, mostly because it was over-leveled
Heracross should've been on this list. It gets basically no moves that normal types can't use better (Specifically Granbull and Ursaring), and only gets two Fighting type moves: Reversal and Rock Smash. But what about Megahorn? Level 54. Heracross is a damn sight better in every generation after this one, but it sucks so badly in the generation it was introduced in.
A lot of things had terrible movepools back then. Especially by level up. At least Heracross gets Megahorn. Scyther and Pinsir can’t even learn any bug type moves unless you teach them Fury Cutter (lol).
@@jimmymackinnon8474 okay but that doesn’t excuse the fact that Heracross is objectively one of the worst Pokémon to use in the game despite its good stats
I've used Heracross a decent number of times and it actually does well using Rock Smash, this is also a Gen (alongside Gen 1) where learnsets were pretty lacking in general. So with what it could use it's actually the best user of Rock Smash in the game. Heracross is also a great Pokemon, it just has a limited moveset.
You can get tyrouge early by the odd egg that the daycare couple gives you unfortunately crystal exclusive.
( you can get either a pichu, cleffa, igglybuff, tyrogue, smoochum, elekid or magby ) but after using one for a playthrough I was using pokemon I never tried before it wasn't really worth it. Mainly because I didn't hit the level for him to learn triple kick until I was well into Kanto. I feel bad for the lil guy.
Gen 2 is incredible, but yeah, some pokemon choices are really odd.
I also appreciate how you read previous comments and addressed them in the outro.
GF:
> Gives Yanma a higher Special Attack than Attack
> Gives Yanma Bug and Flying physical typing
> Gives Yanma only Normal type attacks
> No evolution
> 1% encounter rate
> :)
Hello there, making a comment on the state of Misdreavus, Murkrow, and Houndour, as I have played both Pokemon Crystal and Gold numerous times under numerous different conditions and teams and I have, in-fact, had full playthroughs where I traded these Pokemon into my party for early game. My conclusion? I think ditching these 3 Pokemon to Kanto was intentional because they *are* that good.
I know these Pokemon don't shake up the competitive Gen 2 scene, but trust me, all 3 do incredible things throughout Johto if you do have the.
Misdreavus is weak with a limited level-up movepool, but it's TM learnset is quite extensive and it is a Ghost-type. This makes it an overpowered pick against the majority of trainers in the game who favor slamming you with weak Normal-type attacks. It's lack of a weakness to Ground-types means it also plays a role opposite to Gengar in being instantly available (no evolutions required) stats and the ability to more easily tank and support with is as opposed to doing damage. The AI isn't good at fighting Ghost-type and for being that type, Misdreavus is almost better than Gengar by proxy.
Houndoom is a monster. It evolves really early for the stats it has and it has insanely good moves. Houndoom learns Flamethrower and Crunch by level-up and gets STAB on Bite which is very powerful in the early game. It's also incredibly fast and hits the abundance of weak Psychic-types in Johto harder than anything else. It really isn't threatened by anything, I don't see it not being overpowered if we had access to it through normal means.
Murkrow isn't outstanding upon first glance, but it's mixed attacking capabilities are really useful and it is decently speedy while still having the benefits of being a Flying-Type. Plus, through breeding with Fearow, it gets access to a very powerful Drill Peck super early. Fearow by itself is really easy to access and train as well, so getting a Drill Peck Murkrow really isnt an issue at all.
I had so much fun having these Pokemon on my team through the playthroughs I had access to them. They bring so much variety and spark to the team building of the region, but I absolutely have to admit that they stomped every fight they were in. They're simply too strong for Johto. I think it makes a tragic amount of sense why we don't get access to them until post-game, sadly.
I really appreciate the insight. Houndoom overpowering Johto makes total sense. It’s funny how much difficulty the AI has with Ghost types. I can see it being broken early on, but getting it around Ice Cave or Pass or whatever seems fair. I guess it just shows that the majority of Johto is weak, so even slightly above average Pokemon shine.
I feel like what SHOULD have happened is that these Pokémon were available in early Johto routes on low levels, but locked behind something like HM areas or where NPCs were blocking the way until later so that you had to go back to find them after you'd gone through a fair amount of the region. With lower levels, they'd still require the player to put some effort into levelling them up before using them and they wouldn't be able to just use them to demolish the early gyms.
Then, if they ALSO appeared in Kanto for players who didn't go back to older routes, they'd see it for the first time in Kanto and it would still be a cool "Gotta Catch 'Em All" moment.
Marill/Azumarill, while not as bad as the examples in the video due to Water types having it a bit easier than others, are surprisingly bad for such an iconic Gen 2 Pokemon. Marill's stats are so low that I'm surprised it got a _baby_ in Gen 3, and it's only found in Mt. Mortar, so the fact that it learns Bubble Beam doesn't really mean anything as you'll have Surf by this point. This is also before abilities were a thing, so no Huge Power. At least it's kinda bulky and can use Surf, but there are plenty other Water types that can do the same. Quagsire is better than it in pretty much every way. It's not _bad,_ but it's not really good either and it's outclassed by a lot of other, more easily available bulky Waters.
I definitely remember Cooltrainer Nick -__-
I did eventually win a sunstone back in the day, but like you said, the payoff wasn't worth it. Evolved my Sunkern into Sunflora. Yay I guess lol.
Yeah, I also got a Sunflora when I was a kid... Even back then it didn't take me long before I deposited it on the PC. Poor thing doesn't even get Leech Seed...
You should ABSOLUTELY make a video on the big catching contest
Great video. It was the Yanma holding the subscribe button for me.
I do agree while Houndour is worth using the location for it does SUCK since its only found in Kanto AFTER you beat the E4.
Snuesel is also locked in the post game kanto region which was fixed in crystal by putting him in ice cave but then unfixed in heartgold,soulsilver by only being in kanto again
Also a tragedy
It's amazing how many people claim that the first and second gen were so great [game wise] when I remember all of these horrible things cause I played these games to death growing up. These games are so buggy, so broken, and such a mess. The low encounter rates ruin certain nuzlockes because the odds are not in your favor of a bad choice. And I have watched and played so many run throughs of these games I know the pain and I don't know if I ever really want to do it again.
Some of my favorite Pokemon are in this gen, and this gen made me hate them.
This is THE fatal flaw of gen 2. Almost none of the new pokemon are worth getting excited for (including the starters), and the ones that are are mostly found in Kanto or are evolutions of gen 1 pokemon. It's no coincidence that a bunch of gen 2 pokemon got new evolutions/forms in gen 4 and again in Arceus and AGAIN in gen 9. With Gastly and Abra available so early, virtually every gen 2 pokemon is outclassed from the very beginning. The free level 30 Gyarados really doesn't help highlight gen 2 pokemon either. Even most of the gym leader's ace pokemon are gen 1, in fact the only one that is a true gen 2 pokemon (not a gen 1 evolution) is Pryce with his underwhelming Piloswine.
Idk what was going on during development but the vast majority of gen 2 pokemon seem like afterthoughts, just there to take up space and fill out the dex. I know this is subjective and could be said about any generation but from a design perspective a lot of them come across as very uninspired. IMO there are only about 12 gen 2 pokemon that are worth using at all in-game, not counting gen 1 evolutions or legendaries. Even with the evolutions it's no higher than 20. A pathetic number compared to the solid gen 1 pokemon in RBY and frankly every other generation too.
This is why Gen 2 is my least favorite Generation, along with the garbage exp curve. There's nothing to use; hell, I'd argue that there's even less to use in general compared to Gen 1 because it isn't worth adding anything to your team past Morty, because the wild Pokemon are so ridiculously low level that the grinding takes eons because you catch things at low level, and then have to grind them up a ridiculous number of levels on said low level Pokemon.
It makes me think of Pokemon Challenges' video on why Gen 2 is his least favorite Generation as well; "What Pokemon are there by the eighth Gym? Oh look, I can pick up a level 23 Geodude! This is the eighth Gym!
The only good Johto Pokemon besides the starters and Ampharos are only available in Kanto.
I still remember the struggle as a kid to get Hitmontop on my Gold copy with vitamins to make its stats the same because I really liked its design. I soon realized it was not worth at all
Kinda surprised you didn't mention Sneasel, with its dual special type paired with horrible special attack stat and late game availability, low rate encounter and low catch rate. Easily one of the worst in those games .-.
I always knew Slugma and Magcargo were from gen 2, but for a long time I thought Shuckle and Dunsparce were from gen 3 or 4
Game Freak treating the Bug type like being bad is their only purpose is so disappointing and just feels like bad design.
Ariados could have been a very good support with Spider Web, if only it had good stats to function as a tank.
Ledian is beyond my understanding. It's not interesting and it just doesn't work, even as an "early game tutorial Pokémon".
Yanma just suffered because of Game Freak's disinterest on the Bug type. It could have been a decent low tier Pokémon otherwise.
The safari zone bugs are so disappointing. They are rare and technically strong, could be great counters to the op psychic types but no moves.
*Bad Johto pokémon you shouldn't use that aren't mentioned in the video:*
- Dunsparce (Too rare to get and really bad stats)
- Shuckle (Too defensively and it's type is really bad)
- Smeargle (Literally a Ditto clone and only having Sketch sucks)
- Togetic (Normal/Flying sucks in this game, mediocre stats)
- Wobbuffet (Only defensively, there are better Psychic types to use)
- Sudowoodo (You can only get 1 after your 3rd badge and by then there are better pokémon to use)
- Corsola (Cool type but only great for Surf and mediocre stats, there are better Water types, especially with the Red Gyarados)
- Furret (Cool as an HM Slave but other than that lacking and Normal type is bad in this game)
- Gligar (Cool type but mediocre stats and there are better pokémon for Flying or Ground type moves like Tyranitar and Crobat)
- Sneasel (Maybe great for coverage against Clair but it's mediocre)
- Quagsire (Great type and good for early game but lacking stats make it harder to use in later game, better use Red Gyarados)
- Qwilfish (Mediocre stats and there are better Water or Poison types like Feraligatr, Red Gyarados and Crobat)
- Noctowl (Great against Bugsy but after that use Crobat, Miltank or the Red Gyarados)
- Octillery (Mediocre stats and there are so many Water types to use, especially if you choose Totodile)
- Girafarig (Psychic is still a good type but it's mediocre stats make it bad to use)
- Lanturn (You can only get Chinchou after you get the Good Rod, which is in Olivine City so after 4 badges, better options available)
- Xatu (Similar to Lanturn & Quagire, it has mediocre stats and by the time you get it, you can get better options like Espeon & Crobat)
- Politoed, Scizor, Porygon2, Slowking, Kingdra and all other trade evolutions (You need a link cable and another game & GameBoy for it)
- Skarmory & Forretress (They're similar to Shuckle, Meganium, Wobbuffet and some others, great defensively but bad offensively)
It's sad but a lot of the Johto pokémon got really mediocre stats. Larvitar would be broken to use in the game from early on so I understand that he is in the post-game (Flying-Bug-Normal-Ghost-Fighting-Steel-Ice-Dragon and a lot of Poison in TR), other than Larvitar there aren't really great Rock types. Psychic is still broken and there is a lack of Bug & Fighting type moves Ghost, & Grass are still lacking diversity and stats. Water is solid but there are some mediocre ones, better to use Feraligatr or the Red Gyarados. Fire, Ice, Rock, Normal, Electric, Poison, Flying and Ground types will have a challenging game on their hands with some struggles against at least 1 Gym. Dragon is sadly so rare to get and easily to miss. Steel & Dark are interesting types but kinda mediocre here at it's start. Will get better in later games though.
Delibird is a really horrible gimmick. It has one move by level up, brutal typing, bad coverage, and abysmal stats. It's unique move can goddamn *heal* the opposing pokemon, assuming it doesn't miss!
Present is gitched gold and sliver and it can do stupid amounts of damage even Blissey in GSC ou runs present no cap
I’m still so glad I found this channel. I hope for great things! Keep it up!
Another Gen 2 Pokemon I would consider for this list is Sneasel; You can't catch it until you reach Route 28 in Gold/Silver, and while it has a super unique typing in Dark/Ice, it is pretty bad defensively with 6 weaknesses and, thanks to Sneasel's pitifully low Sp Atk stat of 35, it can barely use STAB offensively either, as all Dark and Ice moves are Special prior to Gen 4.
Adding a physical Ice/Dark type when both types are special in Gen 2 was just wrong lol
I loved Sneasel's design and typing when I was a kid and it's still one of my favorites. It's a shame it was so done so dirty until Gen 4.
Sneasel falls into the same category as houndour and murkrow. Dark type you can't use until the end
Sneasel also has an unfortunate typing for a physical attacker. Why did they forsake all the dark types?
Sneasel is catchable earlier in Crystal. Where it is found in Johto, I've used it on my many Crystal playthroughs and it's actually pretty good. Yes, this doesn't excuse its horrible stat distribution in Gen 2, but for in game? Sneasel is actually good and is one of the best users of Shadow Ball in the entire game (I'd argue the best)
I genuinely don't understand why so many new Johto Pokémon were made extremely rare AND bad. Like I understand making a strong Pokémon rare and a weaker Pokémon more common, but it feels like they purposefully went out of their way to not only introduce a smattering of viable new Pokémon (ones with good stats and moves), but then a ton of shitmons with 1% encounter rates that are found late game or post game or really obscure evolution methods (finding items like the Metal Coat can be a pain, regardless if you have nobody to trade with :'[ )
Another gen 2 pokemon you can't get until the post game is Sneasel (which also happened to be my first random shiny encounter)
I've managed to win the Bug Catching Contest like... once or twice.
...How many times did I have to reload my save to pull it off?
...ahahahahahahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...
Gamefreak to Pokémon fans: Hey guys we made new Pokémon that you can’t get till after you beat the game. We really don’t want you to use them.
Jumpluff and its line easily are the worst.
No offensive moves for till lvl 10 and a weak movepool.
Its garbage.
Also, I frequently won the contest as a kid. I just would only hunt pinsir or scyther at high levels lol
I was always sure Slugma and Skarmory were Gen 3 Pokémon… never saw them in my first playthrough of Gen 2
i agree 100% about how gamefreak handled houndor, murkrow and misdreavous, like why the fiddly fuck would u put them after u beat the game, at that point (at least for me) i usually dont feel like raising anymore pokemon and just fight with the ones i raised at that point, its like if u raised 5 kids when you were younger then your about 50 years old and someone hands u a small child to raise and says "hey this kids got potential to be a big celebrity" but at that point u dont fucking feel like raising em anymore..ok bad analogy but u get my point.
Its Sneasel. High Speed and Physical Attack with two types that are exclusively Special Attacks, AND its locked behind getting all 16 badges.
Yanma is a swarm pokemon. If you give your number to the right guy he'll call you up sometimes and their catch rate will be like 30% for a while. Dunsparce and Quilfish are also like this. It's basically to make the phone feature useful. They're still not worth using in battle though.
I think another terrible Pokémon is Azumarill. Without huge power it was very weak, Marill is rare, and there are a lot of water Pokémon.
There is also Shuckle, which is incredibly tedious to level up, you basically have to toxic everything
I really wanted the two Pokémon in the thumbnail to be strong. I got Sunflora right away and it seemed so cool- until I realized how tough it would be to get another sunstone. Also, Aipom looked so cool!
You can tell there's a problem with Johto's pokémon when a lot of them debuted as a single stage with stats barely worthy of a middle stage, which explains why Johto keeps getting a lot of forms and/or evolutions in later gens. Also, what better way to advertise the new creatures than locking them until the post game region or make their encounter rate incredibly low in their own native region.
Slugma is still the worst imo you get it in Kanto AND it sucks, honestly should do a segment on it in the gen 3 vid since everyone thinks it's a gen 3 pokemon
Lol I know it was from johto because of the anine
"Aipom gets better later on when it evolves into Ambipon"
Bro Ambipom is so bad that Smogon has *barred it from discussion.* It's so bad it's not even worth *talking about.*
It’s bad because nobody let it dropped. It was ru or Nu in gen 5 because people liked it and never stopped using it. So no, ambipom could have been *excellent* in PU for being a strong pivot.
Fake out
Fling kings rock
Last resort
@@silvercrownt last resort?? 😭 please don’t talk about things you know nothing about. Also king rock is banned………
Ambipom does not end with an N the first time, it ends with an M!
Last point, your videos are very high quality. Don’t feel pressured to rush a video out if you’re not happy with it. This channel is ultimately something you do because you enjoy it and you get some cash from it, or eventually will. Not sure exactly how monetization works early on with a channel. Basically, release it when it’s done and you’re happy with it. Not when we’ll love it but you wanted to give more time to it.
I did a playthrough of Gen 2 using both Houndour/Houndoom and Murkrow. I need to give a little background to explain: I played Gold first, and I beat the game with mostly Gen 1 Pokémon. I didn't think I was giving the Gen 2 Pokémon their fair chance, so I resolved to play through Silver with Gen 2 Pokémon only. I wanted to take advantage of the fact that I'd already beaten the game with Gold, so I got to Goldenrod with the Cyndaquil/Typhlozee starter and a Mareep/Flaapy, and then traded an Octillery, Houndoom, and Murkrow over from Gold. I had those three breed eggs with a Ditto, and then hatched the eggs. This meant I was around halfway through the game by the time I had my full team of 5 assembled, which is my usual goal anyway. And it went fine. I had no trouble at all beating the game with that team. But it was completely forgettable. It was a long, complicated setup to make it work, involving having already beaten the game, and I can remember more about what I did to set it up than I can about how it went afterwards. Truth be told, I don't enjoy Gen 2 as much as I do Gen 1, and when I play Gen 2, I seem to enjoy doing it more with Gen 1 Pokémon. My own personal classic teams always seem more fun to me than anything else.
Typhlosion, not Typhlozee! Flaaffy, not Flaapy!
@@Amelia4111 Thanks. That's what comes of not looking them up first. Should I correct them or leave it as is?
I, as a kid LOVED SO MUCH THE BUG CATCHING CONTEST, NO JOKE. I remember spending all my post game tryin to win the contest when it was on. Dunno why i love it so much even now. Maybe cause Bug is my favorire type, or because Sunflora was my fav Pokémon when i was 10; dunno tbh.
Its not only gen 2, GameFreak has this horrible tendency of making the encounter rate for each new generation pokemons really low and rare.
You mention Jrose, you get an immediate subscribe.
I love how two of the pokemon on this list were part of my recent gen 2 nuzlocke team! Aipom actually carried through the second and third gym thanks to sand-attack, but did eventually get benched. Sunflora was useful during Kanto, but can definitely see how it's availability would hurt it greatly in a normal game.
I would have included Entei. I realize that's a slightly weird choice considering it's a legendary but it's a fire type whose attack is 25 points higher than it's special attack in a generation where fire moves are all considered special. So it doesn't have the hitting power you'd really want from a legendary Pokemon in my opinion and it's part of a trio that is a pain in the $%@ to catch. So you'd expect it to be a lot better for all of the effort you need to put in to capture it.
I know I'm late but great video. I agree with you 998%.
1. I love the bug catching contest
2. I had a beast sunkern bro , you couldn't tell him nothing. He was messing up fire pokemon as if they were after pokemon.
But seriously, it's so frustrating that there are so many enjoyable Pokemon that we can never truly experience them as starter pokemon. I use no cheats or hacks or glitches, I play for myself and my own enjoyment so I play by the games rules. With that said I have played the game countless times and so to make it interesting I am choosing all the Pokemon that are never the first choice as a winner team. You can imagine how that is going. So many different options of a team thrown into the post game which unfortunately in my opinion is not as much fun as the beginning journey. Thank you for the video and for reading this.
💮🐉💮I LOVE videos like this! You do such a great job on these! I look forward to more like it. Thank you for taking the time to make it! 💮🐉💮
Please make more videos ❤ I keep rewatching your content all the time. It’s made with so much love, you can tell you pass a long time dedicating yourself on making such a great content. But I can’t help but feeling like I need more of it 😍❤️
I love these videos, before someone else beats me to it i'm going to nominate one of my favorites for the gen 3 video: Aggron.
While it may have solid attack and defense it has horrendous stats everywhere else and a typing that makes it keel over to everything in its debut gen.
You can first catch it inside the cave near brawly's gym, but using it there is a death sentence due to its quadruple weakness to fighting moves.
lt is weak to water, in a region that is 70% water.
It technically has no advantage against any gym due to not learning rock moves and only being able to be acquired after you beat the one gym it could destroy (roxanne's).
Evolves at level 32 then 42 on top of having a slow growth rate, meaning you'll have a fully evolved starter by the time this thing gets out of its baby phase.
It doesn't learn any rock moves by level up, and the few metal ones it gets are unreliable (metal claw is weak, iron tail has 70% accuracy, metal sound is a status move). On the upside it does learn a ton of TMs, but nearly all of them are special. You could give it earthquake, but why waste it on him when one of the starters learns it by level up and you could put it to better use on one of the two pseudo legendaries?
Both of its abilities are worthless, in gen 3 sturdy just protects you from instakill moves and rock head can only negate damage from double edge (normal type, meaning no STAB, although funnily enough it does outdamage every other physical move it can learn except for iron tail).
Based on the manga Kris was the capturer. I think that’s why Joto has so many one percent encounters, and Pokémon like Natu and Lapras who are hidden in little nooks and crannies. I think the point of the game was not to have a super overpowered team but to complete a decks you know gotta catch them all and what not
I hate to say it, but Gen 2 is the worst (I haven’t played Gen 9 but I can’t imagine it being worse) when it comes to usable new Pokémon. The easily found ones tend to suck, and the best ones are either hard as fuck to find or post game for no goddamn good reason. I’m glad at least some of them got MUCH better later on with both new types, evolutions in latter gens, physical/special split, etc
Sneasel. It has the same issue as Houndour, Murkrow and especially Misdreavus in that it's only available in Mt. Silver in GS. In addition, it's a Dark/Ice type (two types that run on SpAtk) with only 35 base SpAtk. It has high speed and decent attack, but not a lot of coverage options
You forgot to mention that ghost type moves were only pshysical before gen 4 so Misdreavus was useless and by the time there were special ghost type moves it already got an evolution, same with Yanma and Sneasel since their types, bug and flying were only physical and dark and ice were only special and when they could make use of their stats in gen 4, they also got an evolution.
Just came upon your channel, and I love your stuff! Really hope to see this series continuing throughout the gens, great job!
I loved the video, it was very informative and spot on. Keep up the good work 🎉
Thanks so much :)
Gen 2 has always given me "expansion DLC" vibes. Most of the available roster is just gen1 mons, a ton of the new mons were straight up unusable, and johto is remembered mainly because it's right next to Kanto...