The fact that Benj didn't get a review unit yet was still able to scrounge for one himself and deliver arguably the best most comprehensive thoughts on using the M11 in limited time is AMAZING. Great work. Honestly.. theirs just something about how you speak with your pacing and word choice that always makes the best sense to me. Keep up the good work.
I’ll add that I do have to edit out a lot of dumb things, but I literally just sat down and hit record when I got home from the Leica store and went stream of consciousness style and hoped I wouldn’t forget anything.
For me, you are the Leica ambassador. Rather than the other TH-camrs that is not really into Leica system. Thx for everything Benj, learnt a lot from you.
👍🏼✨ Leica should update new menu structures to all older models. That would add to value retention. That the Japanese don't do it to force people into buying new camera's is one thing, but at Leica prices... come on Leica.
It’s very tempting to get the newest and greatest. But I really hate how this route is going. 24mp to 40mp now 60mp, everyone talks about omg how much you can crop. “It’s a very usable camera.” How about composing an image instead of crazy cropping. You get what you shoot, it’s okay to take a bad photo because it’s a learning process. Second thing I don’t like about high megapixel it starts to lose the Leica look. You push out those high pixels and apo lenses, you get very sharp, no chromatic aberration, no distortion, no flare pictures like the competitors but it looses that Leica touch. Benj if you are still reading this, I’d say hold off with the m10 not r or p for as long as you can, show people what you can do with 24 mp, show them that skill is not included inside the camera box. Heck for the last year I’ve shot with the a7s3 as my photo camera.
Yeah, I’m treating this more as a 36MP camera with a 60mp expansion mode. It makes more sense in my mind and Leica claims that the 36MP option has the best IQ anyway. If it wasn’t for the added high iso, dynamic range, and internal memory, I wouldn’t care. For weddings though, those options are pretty close to being worth the upgrade. If I wasn’t shooting weddings though and this was just personal. The M10 would easily check all of my boxes.
Benj, looking forward to you full review. But...how does the "always liveview" metering impact lag and shutter-feel? This seems like the only concern about the new camera.
Yeah, I was concerned about that too and will have to do more deep dives but as I was filming the b-roll I remembered that it’s exactly how every other mirrorless camera that I have acts and it made me a lot less worried.
Very useful. Thanks a lot! You did cast a shadow over the M11's 1/16000 (electronic) shutter speed. I think everyone who watched your video is thinking "What was THAT about?"
Yeah… I was disappointed but it’s not really that big of a deal to me. Felt more like a “hey, we technically can add this, so I guess we will” kind of a feature.
@@benjhaisch seeing how you use your cameras in the field, I think I’ll be ok. I’m just a hobbyist so I don’t see myself using it in extreme conditions in Portland. Thanks!
I subscribed yesterday your channel cuz I like the vibes, the info, and now having serious GAS for leica......if the q3 was 35mm it would be easy choice cuz I love that focal and the cost much less then M. But now I'm forced to fet M11. Question how easy is it to learn zone focusing?
Great to hear your perspective on the M11. Yes for sure a more in depth review and test shots from you would be welcome as well. Because you need two bodies for your work, 20K how much would you get back from your M10s on the used market? I just picked up a M10-R used last Sept at a really fantastic price, probably could sell it for more than I paid for it, so might be worth the 2-3K investment to get the M11, what do you think?
I’m not sure and to be honest if the internal memory wasn’t a new feature, I’d probably try to get a pair of M10-R bodies if the price was right instead
@@benjhaisch yes agree that internal memory is a big deal and smart for Leica to implement this feature, of course the M11-P will have 128-256GB increase. Haha!
@@FabulousPepper plenty of other lenses should be able to resolve the sensor when stopped down as well, I’d be really surprised if my 50/Lux and 28/cron didn’t look amazing on it at f/5.6 or so
@@benjhaisch yes, sûre! But what about at 1.4 and 2.0 for exchange orne, that is the question for me ( i have an M240 With 35 Old sumilux, 50 sum. And 28 elmarit) i don t use video…should i go to an m10r or m11?
Hi Ben, how do you compare the build quality of the M11 black version to your GFX50sii, would you say comparable? I always thought my Q2 felt cheap compared to my M10R or 50sii. Thanks.
it felt better than the Q2 Monochrome and it's matte finish, but I think that might be partially due to having M lenses on it, but overall, I'd say it felt a lot better than a Q2 imo
I don’t really care about the aluminum body, but if its just anodized I dont think its going to hold up very well. The modern black chrome is already pretty fragile compared to whats on the M5/M4/M6. And yeah saving $200 on batteries is reallyyyy nice, most people could probably get away with not buying a spare. If you’re buying the M11 new I guess a couple hundred bucks per battery wouldn’t matter much. Btw is there any shutter lag on the new one? The M10 feels a little slow if you’re shooting with live view on, so I never use that.
A $9000 digital camera is utterly preposterous given the rate of computing power advance, and the competition. At $4500 it would still be very expensive but something to consider if you’re an M fanatic (as I am). It’s getting harder and harder to take anyone with a digital Leica seriously.
Useful presentation; thanks! The true base ISO of 64, and the ablity to change the function, of that Custom Function button, on the fly, are truly appealing. It is good to see that the basic M appearance, and basic M handling, remain unchanged. I use M10 and Type 246 Monochrom cameras, for very non-professional shooting, and may well decide that my eventual upgrade path with be with Monochrom models, so, this first version of the M11 will not be a personal priority, but, I am glad for those who will find the M11 to be useful.
The basic appearance is nt the same with M10 becuase the top plate on the left side is narrower. It's easy to miss but once you noticed you can't unsee it and it bothers me so much. Fuji X100 series used to do this and I never like the design. Makes the camera sligtly unbalanced. They fixed it on the X100V. Leica always did it right from film M up until M10, now they changed it. I don't think I'll be over it.
I’d love your thoughts about the fact that M11 always has the sensor open VS M10 which only opens the curtain to shoot. Does this make a difference when shooting and does it bother you?
@@benjhaisch Thank you Benj! This is the only thing that has me thinking if I should change my M9 to the M11…because if this makes it feel more like just any other camera I rather keep my M9 to have the feeling I’m actually using a rangefinder, not just another mirrorless camera…but although the tech is same as mirrorless it seems when using it you feel like it’s the same as using an M10, so should be good; have to try it in person :)
@@benjhaisch Thank you! If you want the APS focal length effect, do the viewfinder lines respond to that? My only Leicas are film and just don’t know. Would be coming from Sony A7 system. Love your videos and perspectives.
It doesn’t show in the viewfinder which is a shame. I wish Leica would make the physical framelines lockable at whatever frame line you’d like. That would mean you could lock at 28mm at 35 or 50 with the 1.3 and 1.8 crops respectively
64 Gb internal is pretty good. It will make the customer less dependent on the internal memory for shooting because if something happens to the camera you might never get the photos back unless its in an SD card which might be salvageable.
A bit concerned about the potential sensor dust since the sensor is exposed when on. Also, when I tried the m11, there is definitely a very different feel to the shutter since it needs to: close, open, close open to take 1 photo, whereas the M10-R just needs to: Open, Close . Maybe that is a minor complaint, but it is louder and a bit more clunky. I have an unopened m10-r black paint, that I have to decide if I should return for a m11 (1:1), tough decision
Camera sensors aren't as fragile as one would think. There's a little wiper you can buy to easily clean dust off of the sensor :) They use the same method to clean the sensor at the leica factory, really not a big deal.
I owned the silver and the black M11P. I shoot more often with the black. Lighter and feels very resistant. I love the coating texture a lot. No finger print and more discreet than the silver.
Shameless plug, but if you do end up purchasing one, these affiliate links would greatly support the channel as these aren't cheap ;) Leica M11 Black: geni.us/m11black Leica M11: Silver: geni.us/m11silver
On the way to get the SL2s body and the M11 came out, either i get both or one. Which do you suggest i get first? I have an M10P but FOMO + GAS is a bitch. 😮💨🤣
Some nice improvements with the M11 - for example, being able to meter off the sensor and have multi-segment metering for the first time in an M camera is a solid benefit (although the sound of the shutter being tripped open to engage this might be an issue for some). A few missteps, though, too, IMO - 60MP with no stabilization is going to quickly become an issue for many photographers who are unaware. The new Visoflex is a bit disappointing, too with a 60MP camera; sporting only 3.68M dots (which shrinks to a little over 2M dots as soon as you adapt it to any of the M10 series bodies).
@@benjhaisch As I understand it, this is the first M camera to feature multi-pattern metering, implemented directly on the sensor (the same as all mirrorless cameras); all the previous digital Ms used a separate center-weighted metering sensor. I suppose a firmware update could be implemented to switch this off. Not sure Leica would ever offer that, though.
Well, based on your earlier video (and others' too) I was well on my way to first M acquisition with M10 or M10-P . The along came GFX50s II and I love medium format and compared to M range is cheap(er). Still leaning towards GFX because of concern over not using rangefinder focus well . Then along come M11. Oh hell. Now what! Great video, very factual and clear, thank you!
Voigtlander’s new 50 f1 apparently covers most of the frame on a GFX at 3 by 4 with very little vignette wide open. This could be an interesting alternative combo
I don't know what's with Leica, as much as you try to avoid them (just for the price) there'll be a strong gravitation to attract you to own one M-body.
Benj, I said it on the Red Dot Forum's TH-cam page chat when you attended the live yesterday and I'll say it again. You are very relatable to us.... U may or may not care I say this, I don't know. U, like us are not the stereotypical very high net worth Leica customer. U look at this product line with practicality and with much thought. Very refreshing..... For folks like us dropping the crash for a Leica product is painful and very financially set backing. So we plan our moves very tactically to play in this arena of a camera that is niche and in the realm of high end.. Thanks for giving us a a practical real world look at these cameras. For me, I'm staying with my M10-R and will upgrade to the next model after the M11, the changes are not compelling enough for me. I can't drop $9K right now after doing so for my M10-R when I bought it in 2021, i'm still recovering from that purchase months later. Keep up the great work Benj! Can't wait to see the comparison you plan on doing against the M10!
1st things I’d like to know or would let people know if i had one in hands is how fast the camera is ready to shoot from sleeping mode, since it’s one of the M10 thing that bugs me a little.
Well if they make the black with aluminum top plate they are betting the fact most people who buy black is looking for discrete and functional, and chrome for the classic look. For the people who want black and classical, they will then release a black paint limited edition in brass…. Leica is being run like a fashion/luxury company
Man another great video but the real question is Q2 vs Q2M M10-R vs M-11 that’s the question for me! Had a Q2 sold it for a second SL2S sold that grabbed an R5 have 1 SL2S left what do I do? I have to keep a Leica! R6 second body then what?
@@steveneveningred1517 I love it! It’s almost too perfect as you don’t miss many shots especially when subjects are moving. The colors are great maybe not quite Leica-esk but very good! The lenses are amazing too.
Omg thank you!!!!!! You are literally the only person who has started with the strange choice of omitting brass on the black body. My head has been spinning for weeks about this odd choice, it’s just so strange. Why why why??? Thank you so much for this video. Huge thank you.
What’s about the lowest shutter speed for handheld photographs with the different resolutions to get a sharp picture? Can I go longer with the lower resolution? Thanks in advance
Always good to hear your thoughts on Leica cameras in particular. There are very few M Photographers that use their cameras the way that you do. At least, I don't actually know of any other wedding photographer to shoot with M's. So the perspective you have is really unique, since you put such these cameras to such a high demand.
I see, now , 2022 , next model 's of M series leica cameras , will ,spend for it .believe me , M12 , M13 ,M14 ,.. . On and on ....super cameras.and q3 , q4 , q5 ....will be super too .small sizes , large of everthing 's , for tomorrow .....( tomorrow are poor's !!!!! But , .......rich , weathly people's , are follow , ....fans !!!!!
I just don’t get the high resolution sensor as it will probably cut the nice rendition, which is well balanced and not too digital within the previous models. 24 Megapixels is actually mostly enough, regarding upscaling technology these days. Who uses visoflex on a rangefinder anyway? Never understood that. If I’d prefer an evf, the Q or Q2 might be the better choice, where it is still possible to manual focus. Personally, I love the baseplate concept. Picking up a Leica gave me that kinda nostalgic analog vibe and I felt it was not an issue at all, more like a nice feature that shapes the using experience. The only thing I would upgrade doubtless on my M10 is the screen with the higher resolution. And the additional internal memory is a nice benefit. But paying like 4 more grand? Nein danke as we use to say in Germany. 😅
Enjoying your videos. How do they focus? I understand no AF. But is there focus peak, can u easily zoom in to get perfect focus. Sorry I’m not a Leica user.
I don’t understand why the Leica M does not have some sort of image stabilizing mechanist since it is it more geared for a Street photography, with 60 MP of resolution image stabilizer would improve the sharpness of the pictures!!
Have you never had your camera fail due to water damage? I had when photographing Niagara Falls. And my cell phone is not in my hand to the same extent my camera is. So the uncovered USB port is disconcerting for me, I will keep using my M10, and see if there is a significant number of M11 going in for repairs!
Benj, great review! One question I have is do you see any difference in speed of opeartion and overall responsiveness of M10 vs M11? i.e. how fast the camera is ready to shoot after you flip the on switch, delay or slowness between consecutive shots / card writing. Wonder if the new processor in M11 makes a difference over M10 in this regard. Thanks!
On the 2 bodys which do you prefer, is ththe brass able to take more abuse? What do you think of the crop settings like on the Q2?. I have the D lux 7 and that works fo me . I pick the D Lux over my Nikon D850 most of the time & use the Nikon for wildlife work.
yeah, I mean just by the materials, you'd think brass would be more substantial in that category. maybe on a drop or something it'd hold up better? not sure to be honest.
Hearing about the viewfinder blackout is extremely disappointing. Leica had plenty of time to develop this Visoflex "2" - just take a look at other manufacturers with less black out and 9 million pixel EVFs.. extremely disappointed to hear this. Negativity aside, thank you for the video, cheers.
@@benjhaisch I know I'm asking for something which isn't #1 priority for M system.. but a guy can dream. I'd love to see an interchangeable M body (not SL, but fully manual as M is) with an integrated no-blackout / top of the line OVF/EVF. :(
How do you feel about the change to the top plate? The bottom edge is higher now on the left than the right when looking from the front similar to how it was on the older X100 models.
can you expand on this? I keep getting comments about it, but I've yet to see the comparison. I even stuck the M10 and M11 back to back for a bunch of b-roll and still didn't see it
@@benjhaisch It's really easy to miss but once you notice it it's hard to unsee it, and it bothers me so much. Maybe because my OCD haha. Fuji X100 series used to do this and I never like the design. Makes the camera slightly unbalanced. They fixed it on the X100V however. Leica always did it right from film M up until M10, now they changed it. I don't think I'll be over it. The top plate seems smaller now and it creates a big difference in my eyes from film M. Mind you I have used almost every M cameras so I know every tiny details. The front button on the M10 also a nod to button rewind on the M2 so I'm kinda not happy that they removed it. Overall I'm happy with the changes on the inside but not so much on the outside. But I know I'm the minority and people will tell me don't buy camera because of aesthetic, BUT one thing that got me interested in the M system is their aesthetic.
Great video Benj, as always! I was also a little bummed about the fact that the black and silver version (although costing the same price) have different materials on the top plate. I think it would be great if they offered both the aluminum version in black or silver for a slightly lower price, and at the "normal" retail price, black and silver with the brass. That way it's up to the customer to choose if they want to go for a lighter body and they're not stuck with a silver one if they rather go with the traditional brass top plate, which I think is part of the signature of this cameras and what gives them such "personality" with time as they develop that patina and that brassing. They clearly can do it, but is a missed opportunity right now on their side I think. Can't wait until you get your hands on one and talk us through your experience using it on the field. All the love from Scotland, keep up the good work!
@@benjhaisch How stupid that it is not stated in the documentation and in the camera’s menu as it was on the M9. Then the M10 becomes obsolete faster than I actually thought. 200 is kind of useless as a base ISO, it reminds me of the Nikon D3, I was so glad to have ISO 100 as base ISO when I replaced it with the D4.
@@benjhaisch On the M10, you get a very small increase in DR in the shadows at ISO 100 at the expense of it being easy to clip the highlights. This slightly higher DR is confirmed by Photons-to-Photos test chart. But so many people were accidentally blowing their highlights at ISO 100, Leica changed the Auto ISO's base to 200 where it should have been to begin with. Jono Slack has a good article about it on his site where he worked with Leica to discover what was going on. On a cloudy day or a scene with low contrast where is little risk to the highlights, ISO 100 on the M10 can get you a tiny bit more DR in the shadows.
Kinda sounding like you’re more and more tempted to upgrade 😆 also super good point about how the internal-SD recording works, not being able to do different resolutions. That makes a lot of sense
@@benjhaisch absolutely. It honestly would have been nice (who knows maybe they still will) to see a 24MP-only version most of the other benefits, slotted in at like $6K or so
I think if a fuji can have 2 cards so could leica, but the internal memory is nice. I'm curious to see the electronic shutter tested as there seems to be new tech available. Nikons newest camera doesn't even have a mechanical shutter! :o
I took some photos with it and the read out seems to be pretty slow. Maybe 1/15 or 1/30? I’m no expert but it was unusable for movement from what I saw
Are the upgrades really beneficial for wedding photographers? Absolutely. Is it worth selling both my M10s for less than a single M11? Not sure yet, but I’m obviously tempted.
I don’t understand why this camera cost so expensive. Does it have a gold plated sensor? Companies like Nikon and Sony and Canon offer better modern cameras. You can use Leica M lens on Sony A7riv.
Handmade in Germany with WAY more technical mechanical processes, also the market share that Leica has is far lower than Nikon, Canon, Sony, etc so the price to produce fewer is higher than if they produced at the same volume. I don’t like the price either, but at least I understand it.
And yes, you can use Leica M glass on a Sony but there are many ways that the sensor isn’t optimized for the lenses and the close angle that the back elements come to the sensor. Personally, I’d LOVE if maybe Sigma made a $4-5000 version with cheaper components that is more factory built. But Leica is the only game in town so it’s what we live with.
@@gurugamer8632 haha! I mean it’s not like I can tell my wife those things and she’ll just let me buy a pair. Just is what it is. I don’t work for Leica and have no affiliation with them whatsoever, just is what it is. A mix of craftsmanship and a lower market share pushes them into that luxury category.
The fact that Benj didn't get a review unit yet was still able to scrounge for one himself and deliver arguably the best most comprehensive thoughts on using the M11 in limited time is AMAZING. Great work. Honestly.. theirs just something about how you speak with your pacing and word choice that always makes the best sense to me. Keep up the good work.
Much love, my friend! Love watching your stuff as well.
I’ll add that I do have to edit out a lot of dumb things, but I literally just sat down and hit record when I got home from the Leica store and went stream of consciousness style and hoped I wouldn’t forget anything.
For me, you are the Leica ambassador. Rather than the other TH-camrs that is not really into Leica system. Thx for everything Benj, learnt a lot from you.
Good point about evf sensor blackout, which some have overlooked.
A LOT of people overlooked the negative aspect about the camera which seems odd to me. Except for Kai Wong and this video.
The fact that Benj wasn't on the pre-release testing list compared to most of the other photographers that got one is appalling. Do better Leica!
Agree 👆👆👆
❤️❤️❤️
There’s always 2027 ;)
Its true. He should have gotten one.
If it wasn’t 5am I’d 100% be tuning into your thing with Samuel, Alex ;)
👍🏼✨
Leica should update new menu structures to all older models. That would add to value retention. That the Japanese don't do it to force people into buying new camera's is one thing, but at Leica prices... come on Leica.
Best p/review on youtube hands down
😊
Haha!
Would you go for a Leica M11-P in black or silver because of brass? if you were to pick one up?
It’s very tempting to get the newest and greatest. But I really hate how this route is going. 24mp to 40mp now 60mp, everyone talks about omg how much you can crop. “It’s a very usable camera.” How about composing an image instead of crazy cropping. You get what you shoot, it’s okay to take a bad photo because it’s a learning process. Second thing I don’t like about high megapixel it starts to lose the Leica look. You push out those high pixels and apo lenses, you get very sharp, no chromatic aberration, no distortion, no flare pictures like the competitors but it looses that Leica touch.
Benj if you are still reading this, I’d say hold off with the m10 not r or p for as long as you can, show people what you can do with 24 mp, show them that skill is not included inside the camera box. Heck for the last year I’ve shot with the a7s3 as my photo camera.
Yeah, I’m treating this more as a 36MP camera with a 60mp expansion mode. It makes more sense in my mind and Leica claims that the 36MP option has the best IQ anyway.
If it wasn’t for the added high iso, dynamic range, and internal memory, I wouldn’t care. For weddings though, those options are pretty close to being worth the upgrade. If I wasn’t shooting weddings though and this was just personal. The M10 would easily check all of my boxes.
Benj, looking forward to you full review. But...how does the "always liveview" metering impact lag and shutter-feel? This seems like the only concern about the new camera.
Yeah, I was concerned about that too and will have to do more deep dives but as I was filming the b-roll I remembered that it’s exactly how every other mirrorless camera that I have acts and it made me a lot less worried.
Very useful. Thanks a lot! You did cast a shadow over the M11's 1/16000 (electronic) shutter speed. I think everyone who watched your video is thinking "What was THAT about?"
Yeah… I was disappointed but it’s not really that big of a deal to me. Felt more like a “hey, we technically can add this, so I guess we will” kind of a feature.
Great video. I assume that the SL2 has better EVF than the Visoflex II
Have you seen any durability issues with the aluminum top and bottom? I’m seriously considering one right now.
I’ve only had mine for about 2 months now, but no issues so far
@@benjhaisch seeing how you use your cameras in the field, I think I’ll be ok. I’m just a hobbyist so I don’t see myself using it in extreme conditions in Portland. Thanks!
Not recommended to transfer you images via the usb-c port . . . better to play it safe and do it via the memory card.
What’s everyone’s thought on the aluminium on the black version?
I subscribed yesterday your channel cuz I like the vibes, the info, and now having serious GAS for leica......if the q3 was 35mm it would be easy choice cuz I love that focal and the cost much less then M. But now I'm forced to fet M11. Question how easy is it to learn zone focusing?
You get so much resolution on the Q2 and upcoming Q3 that you can easily crop your 28nm to 35mm and not be missing much tbh.
Great to hear your perspective on the M11. Yes for sure a more in depth review and test shots from you would be welcome as well. Because you need two bodies for your work, 20K how much would you get back from your M10s on the used market? I just picked up a M10-R used last Sept at a really fantastic price, probably could sell it for more than I paid for it, so might be worth the 2-3K investment to get the M11, what do you think?
I’m not sure and to be honest if the internal memory wasn’t a new feature, I’d probably try to get a pair of M10-R bodies if the price was right instead
@@benjhaisch yes agree that internal memory is a big deal and smart for Leica to implement this feature, of course the M11-P will have 128-256GB increase. Haha!
It will not cost 10k per unit but 20k because you need to mount an expensive APO lenses, to get the most of the 60 MP on this camera...!
@@FabulousPepper plenty of other lenses should be able to resolve the sensor when stopped down as well, I’d be really surprised if my 50/Lux and 28/cron didn’t look amazing on it at f/5.6 or so
@@benjhaisch yes, sûre! But what about at 1.4 and 2.0 for exchange orne, that is the question for me ( i have an M240 With 35 Old sumilux, 50 sum. And 28 elmarit) i don t use video…should i go to an m10r or m11?
Hi Ben, how do you compare the build quality of the M11 black version to your GFX50sii, would you say comparable? I always thought my Q2 felt cheap compared to my M10R or 50sii. Thanks.
it felt better than the Q2 Monochrome and it's matte finish, but I think that might be partially due to having M lenses on it, but overall, I'd say it felt a lot better than a Q2 imo
Thanks Ben! How about compared to your 50sii, which, by the way, I bought because of your review!
Nice! That’s a harder one because they are such different cameras. I felt like the M11 felt less plastic but who knows haha
I don’t really care about the aluminum body, but if its just anodized I dont think its going to hold up very well. The modern black chrome is already pretty fragile compared to whats on the M5/M4/M6. And yeah saving $200 on batteries is reallyyyy nice, most people could probably get away with not buying a spare. If you’re buying the M11 new I guess a couple hundred bucks per battery wouldn’t matter much.
Btw is there any shutter lag on the new one? The M10 feels a little slow if you’re shooting with live view on, so I never use that.
Yes, the shutter lag in live view is present
A $9000 digital camera is utterly preposterous given the rate of computing power advance, and the competition. At $4500 it would still be very expensive but something to consider if you’re an M fanatic (as I am). It’s getting harder and harder to take anyone with a digital Leica seriously.
Next cameras,...will
Useful presentation; thanks! The true base ISO of 64, and the ablity to change the function, of that Custom Function button, on the fly, are truly appealing. It is good to see that the basic M appearance, and basic M handling, remain unchanged. I use M10 and Type 246 Monochrom cameras, for very non-professional shooting, and may well decide that my eventual upgrade path with be with Monochrom models, so, this first version of the M11 will not be a personal priority, but, I am glad for those who will find the M11 to be useful.
The basic appearance is nt the same with M10 becuase the top plate on the left side is narrower. It's easy to miss but once you noticed you can't unsee it and it bothers me so much.
Fuji X100 series used to do this and I never like the design. Makes the camera sligtly unbalanced. They fixed it on the X100V.
Leica always did it right from film M up until M10, now they changed it. I don't think I'll be over it.
I’d love your thoughts about the fact that M11 always has the sensor open VS M10 which only opens the curtain to shoot. Does this make a difference when shooting and does it bother you?
Yeah not enough people talk about this because there's slight delay since it doesn't seem like it's front-Curtain Shutter
I didn’t notice it to be an issue when I used it, but it’s the same as every other mirrorless camera now, so I have to assume it works in the same way
@@benjhaisch Thank you Benj! This is the only thing that has me thinking if I should change my M9 to the M11…because if this makes it feel more like just any other camera I rather keep my M9 to have the feeling I’m actually using a rangefinder, not just another mirrorless camera…but although the tech is same as mirrorless it seems when using it you feel like it’s the same as using an M10, so should be good; have to try it in person :)
When you change resolutions does the crop factor change? Do you go from full frame to APS or smaller with effective focal length changes? Thanks!
Good question! No it does not, but that specific option *is* available if you’d like
@@benjhaisch Thank you! If you want the APS focal length effect, do the viewfinder lines respond to that? My only Leicas are film and just don’t know. Would be coming from Sony A7 system. Love your videos and perspectives.
@@JeanPaulLagarde I’m not sure tbh, I know it shows it on the LCD but I didn’t try it through the VF.
@@benjhaisch cool! Thanks for that!
It doesn’t show in the viewfinder which is a shame. I wish Leica would make the physical framelines lockable at whatever frame line you’d like.
That would mean you could lock at 28mm at 35 or 50 with the 1.3 and 1.8 crops respectively
I'll just take a moment to notice that anutomatically generated subs named you Ben Chich :)
Haha it’s always a hilarious combination of things.
64 Gb internal is pretty good. It will make the customer less dependent on the internal memory for shooting because if something happens to the camera you might never get the photos back unless its in an SD card which might be salvageable.
Be waiting for your full review ;)
$9,000… 🤣
A bit concerned about the potential sensor dust since the sensor is exposed when on.
Also, when I tried the m11, there is definitely a very different feel to the shutter since it needs to: close, open, close open to take 1 photo, whereas the M10-R just needs to: Open, Close .
Maybe that is a minor complaint, but it is louder and a bit more clunky.
I have an unopened m10-r black paint, that I have to decide if I should return for a m11 (1:1), tough decision
Camera sensors aren't as fragile as one would think. There's a little wiper you can buy to easily clean dust off of the sensor :)
They use the same method to clean the sensor at the leica factory, really not a big deal.
I owned the silver and the black M11P. I shoot more often with the black. Lighter and feels very resistant. I love the coating texture a lot. No finger print and more discreet than the silver.
Shameless plug, but if you do end up purchasing one, these affiliate links would greatly support the channel as these aren't cheap ;)
Leica M11 Black: geni.us/m11black
Leica M11: Silver: geni.us/m11silver
On the way to get the SL2s body and the M11 came out, either i get both or one. Which do you suggest i get first? I have an M10P but FOMO + GAS is a bitch. 😮💨🤣
Some nice improvements with the M11 - for example, being able to meter off the sensor and have multi-segment metering for the first time in an M camera is a solid benefit (although the sound of the shutter being tripped open to engage this might be an issue for some).
A few missteps, though, too, IMO - 60MP with no stabilization is going to quickly become an issue for many photographers who are unaware. The new Visoflex is a bit disappointing, too with a 60MP camera; sporting only 3.68M dots (which shrinks to a little over 2M dots as soon as you adapt it to any of the M10 series bodies).
Can you turn this feature on and off and hopefully eliminate the delay people are mentioning when not needed?
@@JeanPaulLagarde Nope. That's just how the metering system works now.
I’d love the option to just turn off metering though if it would speed things up
@@benjhaisch As I understand it, this is the first M camera to feature multi-pattern metering, implemented directly on the sensor (the same as all mirrorless cameras); all the previous digital Ms used a separate center-weighted metering sensor. I suppose a firmware update could be implemented to switch this off. Not sure Leica would ever offer that, though.
Yes
Well, based on your earlier video (and others' too) I was well on my way to first M acquisition with M10 or M10-P . The along came GFX50s II and I love medium format and compared to M range is cheap(er). Still leaning towards GFX because of concern over not using rangefinder focus well . Then along come M11. Oh hell. Now what! Great video, very factual and clear, thank you!
Voigtlander’s new 50 f1 apparently covers most of the frame on a GFX at 3 by 4 with very little vignette wide open. This could be an interesting alternative combo
I don't know what's with Leica, as much as you try to avoid them (just for the price) there'll be a strong gravitation to attract you to own one M-body.
Benj, I said it on the Red Dot Forum's TH-cam page chat when you attended the live yesterday and I'll say it again. You are very relatable to us.... U may or may not care I say this, I don't know. U, like us are not the stereotypical very high net worth Leica customer. U look at this product line with practicality and with much thought. Very refreshing..... For folks like us dropping the crash for a Leica product is painful and very financially set backing. So we plan our moves very tactically to play in this arena of a camera that is niche and in the realm of high end.. Thanks for giving us a a practical real world look at these cameras. For me, I'm staying with my M10-R and will upgrade to the next model after the M11, the changes are not compelling enough for me. I can't drop $9K right now after doing so for my M10-R when I bought it in 2021, i'm still recovering from that purchase months later. Keep up the great work Benj! Can't wait to see the comparison you plan on doing against the M10!
I ilke how you are talking yourself into buying the Leica M11 due to the dynamic megapixel setting :D. Umm sorry I mean a test unit xD
Question: how impactful is it for you not to have an image stabilizer in the M camera?
1st things I’d like to know or would let people know if i had one in hands is how fast the camera is ready to shoot from sleeping mode, since it’s one of the M10 thing that bugs me a little.
Well if they make the black with aluminum top plate they are betting the fact most people who buy black is looking for discrete and functional, and chrome for the classic look. For the people who want black and classical, they will then release a black paint limited edition in brass…. Leica is being run like a fashion/luxury company
Man another great video but the real question is Q2 vs Q2M M10-R vs M-11 that’s the question for me! Had a Q2 sold it for a second SL2S sold that grabbed an R5 have 1 SL2S left what do I do? I have to keep a Leica! R6 second body then what?
I’ve been toying with the idea of selling my SLS2 for an R5 or Z9. You like the R5?
@@steveneveningred1517 I love it! It’s almost too perfect as you don’t miss many shots especially when subjects are moving. The colors are great maybe not quite Leica-esk but very good! The lenses are amazing too.
No black out with the firmware update with the Visoflex 2
Omg thank you!!!!!! You are literally the only person who has started with the strange choice of omitting brass on the black body. My head has been spinning for weeks about this odd choice, it’s just so strange. Why why why??? Thank you so much for this video. Huge thank you.
Do you think that the M10 is worth buying in 2024? I currently have a Q-P.
Absolutely
I think ditching the bottom plate is my favorite part. Looking forward to when you get one to review.
What’s about the lowest shutter speed for handheld photographs with the different resolutions to get a sharp picture? Can I go longer with the lower resolution? Thanks in advance
Some notable improvements, so we have to wait another 5 years for a (maybe) IBIS
Always good to hear your thoughts on Leica cameras in particular. There are very few M Photographers that use their cameras the way that you do. At least, I don't actually know of any other wedding photographer to shoot with M's. So the perspective you have is really unique, since you put such these cameras to such a high demand.
This camera really seems to have pushed the envelope.
Too bad its way expensive
I see, now , 2022 , next model 's of M series leica cameras , will ,spend for it .believe me , M12 , M13 ,M14 ,.. . On and on ....super cameras.and q3 , q4 , q5 ....will be super too .small sizes , large of everthing 's , for tomorrow .....( tomorrow are poor's !!!!! But , .......rich , weathly people's , are follow , ....fans !!!!!
Brass improves your picture quality 😂
ooops.. Sorry I guess I was wrong abt the card being able to record different resolution than the internal storage..
would be amazing though!
Straightforward and useful!
I just don’t get the high resolution sensor as it will probably cut the nice rendition, which is well balanced and not too digital within the previous models. 24 Megapixels is actually mostly enough, regarding upscaling technology these days.
Who uses visoflex on a rangefinder anyway? Never understood that. If I’d prefer an evf, the Q or Q2 might be the better choice, where it is still possible to manual focus.
Personally, I love the baseplate concept. Picking up a Leica gave me that kinda nostalgic analog vibe and I felt it was not an issue at all, more like a nice feature that shapes the using experience.
The only thing I would upgrade doubtless on my M10 is the screen with the higher resolution. And the additional internal memory is a nice benefit. But paying like 4 more grand? Nein danke as we use to say in Germany. 😅
Liked this video before even watching it cause I knew it’d be quality!
Haha I appreciate it
So are you upgrading to the M11?!
Enjoying your videos. How do they focus? I understand no AF. But is there focus peak, can u easily zoom in to get perfect focus. Sorry I’m not a Leica user.
I don’t understand why the Leica M does not have some sort of image stabilizing mechanist since it is it more geared for a Street photography, with 60 MP of resolution image stabilizer would improve the sharpness of the pictures!!
Have you never had your camera fail due to water damage? I had when photographing Niagara Falls. And my cell phone is not in my hand to the same extent my camera is. So the uncovered USB port is disconcerting for me, I will keep using my M10, and see if there is a significant number of M11 going in for repairs!
Benj, great review! One question I have is do you see any difference in speed of opeartion and overall responsiveness of M10 vs M11? i.e. how fast the camera is ready to shoot after you flip the on switch, delay or slowness between consecutive shots / card writing. Wonder if the new processor in M11 makes a difference over M10 in this regard. Thanks!
I feel like you having these cameras is the closest I'll ever be to owning one. Basically living vicariously.
Please tell me where you got the leather straps to hang the 2nd Leica 🙏🏽😊
subscribed.
On the list for the M11 Loaner. Can’t wait to check it out.
On the 2 bodys which do you prefer, is ththe brass able to take more abuse? What do you think of the crop settings like on the Q2?. I have the D lux 7 and that works fo me . I pick the D Lux over my Nikon D850 most of the time & use the Nikon for wildlife work.
yeah, I mean just by the materials, you'd think brass would be more substantial in that category. maybe on a drop or something it'd hold up better? not sure to be honest.
Great review. Thanks!
put the bigger lens on the Black and the lgihter lens on the Chrome. :)
Hearing about the viewfinder blackout is extremely disappointing. Leica had plenty of time to develop this Visoflex "2" - just take a look at other manufacturers with less black out and 9 million pixel EVFs.. extremely disappointed to hear this. Negativity aside, thank you for the video, cheers.
I think it’s more of a sensor/processor issue than the EVF, but yeah, same system either way.
@@benjhaisch I know I'm asking for something which isn't #1 priority for M system.. but a guy can dream. I'd love to see an interchangeable M body (not SL, but fully manual as M is) with an integrated no-blackout / top of the line OVF/EVF. :(
Thanks for your review on the M11, I am currently on the M and still love it. The 60 mpix sensor would be interesting and the ISO 64 setting.
How do you feel about the change to the top plate? The bottom edge is higher now on the left than the right when looking from the front similar to how it was on the older X100 models.
can you expand on this? I keep getting comments about it, but I've yet to see the comparison. I even stuck the M10 and M11 back to back for a bunch of b-roll and still didn't see it
@@benjhaisch look at the leatherette area and you’ll notice that it goes a little higher on the left side than on the right when looking at the front.
Ahhhhhh from straight on. Yeah that makes sense now. Didn’t notice at all, so it didn’t bother me. Might be more of an issue with the silver model
@@benjhaisch It's really easy to miss but once you notice it it's hard to unsee it, and it bothers me so much. Maybe because my OCD haha.
Fuji X100 series used to do this and I never like the design. Makes the camera slightly unbalanced. They fixed it on the X100V however.
Leica always did it right from film M up until M10, now they changed it. I don't think I'll be over it. The top plate seems smaller now and it creates a big difference in my eyes from film M.
Mind you I have used almost every M cameras so I know every tiny details. The front button on the M10 also a nod to button rewind on the M2 so I'm kinda not happy that they removed it.
Overall I'm happy with the changes on the inside but not so much on the outside. But I know I'm the minority and people will tell me don't buy camera because of aesthetic, BUT one thing that got me interested in the M system is their aesthetic.
I didn’t know they had it in at the Bellevue mall. Imma go check it out
Nah man sorry but i do streetphotography and its a huuuge plus when the camera is havy (for me and my friends)
Just for the added weight to be steady shooting handheld?
Btw I always enjoy your vids. Thanks.
nice review
Great video Benj, as always! I was also a little bummed about the fact that the black and silver version (although costing the same price) have different materials on the top plate. I think it would be great if they offered both the aluminum version in black or silver for a slightly lower price, and at the "normal" retail price, black and silver with the brass. That way it's up to the customer to choose if they want to go for a lighter body and they're not stuck with a silver one if they rather go with the traditional brass top plate, which I think is part of the signature of this cameras and what gives them such "personality" with time as they develop that patina and that brassing. They clearly can do it, but is a missed opportunity right now on their side I think. Can't wait until you get your hands on one and talk us through your experience using it on the field. All the love from Scotland, keep up the good work!
Very good review Benj. I appreciated your perspective.
A wave of “why we shoot film” reviews of the Mxx.
I think someone sounds like he has talked himself into purchasing an M11 at some point 😉.
Haha I mean, I’ll do it as soon as I can figure out the right finances/justification
totally agree on how the ability to change raw resolution works on wedding environment! I wish all other camera manufacturer consider this as well
ISO 100 on the M10 is the base ISO, not a “Pull”-mode.
No it's actually 160. 100 ISO is indeed pull
It’s not, I confirmed it with the Leica store employees when I was there too. You get far less dynamic range at ISO 100
@@benjhaisch How stupid that it is not stated in the documentation and in the camera’s menu as it was on the M9. Then the M10 becomes obsolete faster than I actually thought. 200 is kind of useless as a base ISO, it reminds me of the Nikon D3, I was so glad to have ISO 100 as base ISO when I replaced it with the D4.
@@benjhaisch On the M10, you get a very small increase in DR in the shadows at ISO 100 at the expense of it being easy to clip the highlights. This slightly higher DR is confirmed by Photons-to-Photos test chart. But so many people were accidentally blowing their highlights at ISO 100, Leica changed the Auto ISO's base to 200 where it should have been to begin with. Jono Slack has a good article about it on his site where he worked with Leica to discover what was going on. On a cloudy day or a scene with low contrast where is little risk to the highlights, ISO 100 on the M10 can get you a tiny bit more DR in the shadows.
Ah thanks for the info! Yeah, I’ve only had poor results at ISO 100 so that makes a bit of sense
Kinda sounding like you’re more and more tempted to upgrade 😆 also super good point about how the internal-SD recording works, not being able to do different resolutions. That makes a lot of sense
So tempted. If it wasn’t for the cost, I’d have two on pre-order already
@@benjhaisch absolutely. It honestly would have been nice (who knows maybe they still will) to see a 24MP-only version most of the other benefits, slotted in at like $6K or so
Thanks! good observations.
I think if a fuji can have 2 cards so could leica, but the internal memory is nice. I'm curious to see the electronic shutter tested as there seems to be new tech available. Nikons newest camera doesn't even have a mechanical shutter! :o
I took some photos with it and the read out seems to be pretty slow. Maybe 1/15 or 1/30? I’m no expert but it was unusable for movement from what I saw
@@benjhaisch gotcha, well makes sense they wouldn't have the same processing power as Nikon. Not necessarily Leicas strength. Thanks for the info!
Are you going to switch your M10 to M11?? Is it worth it for wedding photographer? Thankss ✨
Are the upgrades really beneficial for wedding photographers? Absolutely. Is it worth selling both my M10s for less than a single M11? Not sure yet, but I’m obviously tempted.
@@benjhaisch so are you going to sell your one of your M10 to buy a new M11?
I’ll have to make that decision once I’ve had the opportunity to try it out and compare the files directly
Its all about the brass.
great video! thanks a lot
Thanks ! great thoughts
I don’t understand why this camera cost so expensive. Does it have a gold plated sensor? Companies like Nikon and Sony and Canon offer better modern cameras. You can use
Leica M lens on Sony A7riv.
Handmade in Germany with WAY more technical mechanical processes, also the market share that Leica has is far lower than Nikon, Canon, Sony, etc so the price to produce fewer is higher than if they produced at the same volume. I don’t like the price either, but at least I understand it.
And yes, you can use Leica M glass on a Sony but there are many ways that the sensor isn’t optimized for the lenses and the close angle that the back elements come to the sensor. Personally, I’d LOVE if maybe Sigma made a $4-5000 version with cheaper components that is more factory built. But Leica is the only game in town so it’s what we live with.
@@benjhaisch OK thanks I’ll get the M11.
@@gurugamer8632 haha! I mean it’s not like I can tell my wife those things and she’ll just let me buy a pair. Just is what it is. I don’t work for Leica and have no affiliation with them whatsoever, just is what it is. A mix of craftsmanship and a lower market share pushes them into that luxury category.
@@benjhaisch would you go for the black paint or silver M11?
Expecting your review, nice 👍
Hoping to get one as soon as I can. We’ll see
I liked the review, made me feel good sticking to my film MP though ;-)
the MP is the GOAT. No doubts about that