How to Set your Tail Rotor Perfect on a R/C Helicopter and Why this Method Works.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- Here is a video of how I get my tail rotor tuned correctly. Here we are verifying that the helicopter does not have enough right pitch in the tail rotor to hold the helicopter straight in flight. The main rotor causes the nose of the helicopter to want to spin nose left. So to counter that torque, there must be about 2-3 degrees right pitch to offset that torque of the main rotor. If there was no tail rotor, the helicopter would just spin nose left out of control. Most gyros have a way to turn off the heading hold so you can get the perfect amount of right pitch and actually see it working. This is my simple AR7210BX and a Blade Fusion 270 which we are working with.The Camera died in the end. Watch the flight video too. You can help this channel by buying your new Horizon Hobby products with this link here: www.horizonhobby.com/category...
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Old school method is to be in Rate mode and set you slider in the middle of the tail of the output shaft. Works every time
You have a great channel and I like your tutorials, you should do more of them for us noobies....
Best explanation of gain I’ve heard! Gyro holding power. Cool videos you’re putting out.
@@NebulaOrion1 Depends on the FBL unit and the transmitter. For a beast X you change by assigning the heading hold/normal to a switch and channel. The amount of rate can be set by using the end points of that channel or manually on the Beast X if you leave the endpoints at 100-/100+. All the BFL's operate pretty much the same way. Some of the smaller helicopters don't have the capability to change the tail gyro rate.
THE best heli instructional video EVER! You sir have THE knowledge that my heli instructor did 20 years ago! 👍
Great tutorial, very easy to comprehend, much appreciated, also very helpful !
Thanks for all these "setup guide videos", I've finally got most of the wag out of my 360CFX 3S, and Fusion 180. They still got a minimum amount of wag here and there that I won't bother messing with. It's good enough for my casual flying. Thanks again!
N 7 right on. Put a small amount of triflo oil on your tail shafts too. The easier it moves, the little nervous shakes will be gone too. I’ll keep doing little tuning videos about various things with helicopters.
This was a very helpful video. Thank you
Excellent explanation. Thank you
Thanks for the help. I’m a total newb and your videos advance a beginner fast. Appreciate it.!!!
Please make sure we can see your screen on the controller. The glare makes it impossible to see.
I’m new to your channel (and heli’s) so I’m not sure if you have made more videos like this but creating a problem and fixing it is a awesome way to teach. A entire series of these video would be amazing. Thank you soooo much for amazing content and the knowledge.
Best informative heli videos on TH-cam, great flying too!!
Thank you very much. Kind words go a long way. Thanks for your support. I’ll spread the knowledge any way I can.
Hay man ..... Just want to say a massive THANK YOU for ur great videos and the sharing of the library of knowledge u have ...... I got myself a Blade 330s a couple of weeks ago and she didnt want to play nice ...... So through watchin ur videos i av now finally tamed the beast and i am a happy flyer ..... Thanks again dude ..... Keep up the good work ..... Stay safe ...... Love from sunny england :]
That is really great news. I am here any time you need me. I just enjoy helping. Thanks.
Nice! Thanks for sharing this
Awesome video mate. 👍🏽
Love to see something with wobble to. Thanks for the tailwag video 🙃👍
Thanks for helping me turn my piece of crap 470LM into a nice stable flying Heli. My old GMP Cobra was stable back in the day, though some things have changed since then. Also it's amazing how much you will forget how to do after all those years pass by.
Thanks for passing on the wisdom!
just got the blade nano s3 to learn on.thx mark from the uk.
i love you have the fusion 480 ive been practicing on just that heli in the sim... but this will be the 4th heli i'll buy.
Really good info! Amazing flying!
Thanks. I just like helping you guys with this awesome hobby.
Thank You my frend, perfecly explaint, very important to do this step by step. Ist's half of the bill. Heck and Swatch-Plate incl. rotorblads proper adjustment, than 1. lift up is mostly Safe. Great Job thak's from Germany
Mike
best tutorials ever. im first time using microbeast.
Outstanding Justin!
Old School brother Richard
Thanks, only us old dudes know the OG stuff.
Amazingly video justin! Video on how to center/level the swash next?? Lol
Hi Justin.
Being relatively new to helicopters I really like your videos. Spectacular👌.
I have a small request, can you put the same video for a ‘Blade’ AR636A or similar fbl with a Dx6 or a dx8 radio. As many pilots have the basic radios and setups.
I have a 360cfx 3s with dx6 , man that thing always (slow) wags like a fish in an aquarium 🤔.
Have a blessed one, Stay Safe.
Damn 700's are big. I've got a few BNFs with my first kit on the way. You mention the value of a good manual and I couldn't agree more. Even though the BNFs come pre assembled I wish the assembly manual was available. It'd be nice to have the OEM specs( i.e. pitch specs, servo horn lengths and link lengths). Hell I still have the manual for my Concept 30.
Very nicely done Brother!
Works on Ikon/Brain2 dude. Use your gyro screen in transmitter. Put gyro on flight mode for gyro screen. Now put -55 in Normal mode. Make sure switch is in Normal mode. Adjust the pushrod length to get about 2 degrees right pitch. Spool up heli, see if she wants to rotate as mine did. Now adjust the rod if needed. Tightening links makes rod shorter, which gives more right pitch. It’s the best way to get a perfect tail rotor.
@@CoeShow619 Thanks Brother! My only problem is that once I had the correct length I wrapped my 1" of my CF tail rod, metal threads and the ball link with Glue, Thread & Epoxy.
Lol Never going to be able to adjust the length. Lol
CoeShow in the house!!!! Right when i get up im making some coffee and tuning my tail!! Also what are you running your dials at? Thanks so much!!!!
Bought an used fusion 270 and it has a slow wag, first idea was to increase the gain from the ebar v2 but guess will check mechanical setup first
Thanks coeshow
Hello from Germany , that is realy the best Vidio i have seen how to easy its to set the tail . Best regadrs and be save :-))))))))))
Danke, I love Germany. I’m due for another trip soon.
I can't thank you enough! I had this tail wagging, could not improve it a bit, spent money on new tail assembly - not much help, and found you! Thanks!
That’s awesome. Keep watching. Or ask something in the future. Happy Flying!
I do have a question I found no good answer yet, I have a feeling you would know: I fly Align 450 Pro with TGZ380 controller, and indeed apply your method on an impossible to stop wagging tail, and it fly correct now - again thanks. The next thing with this heli is Toilet Bowl Effect - It was very bad, after long fight it reduced itself to flyable level, still I like to see my heli rock solid stable in the air. Any idea how to correct this?
Thanks, have a no crash weekend!
@@talbahir can be a few things, bent parts? , head gain needs to be lower, or you need more headspeed due to the stiff head dampeners. A small heli like that needs about 3,000 rpm to stay stable.
@@CoeShow619 As the shaft is new (was bent) and the tail assembly is new, I did notice that the faster the head runs the stable the heli is. I flew helis about 20 yeads ago, gas heli... Now accomulate the knowledge for modern helis.
PS. On RadioMaster T16S, and TGZ380 and Align ESC governor mode controller, what would be the throttle percent for normal everyday flight? I now use now 30% power... I guess I should pitch it higher. What are you using for throttle?
@@talbahir I have no idea about your radio. I am a Spektrum guy. If the Align speed control is in Governor mode, it’s basically a Hobbywing now days. So I would run 85% flat curve for throttle. Somewhere in there. Maybe 75% for stunt 1
On the BeastX where do you generally run pot one , cyclic gain ...
Hey man good stuff, did you have a bad wag out the box with the stock AR636A in it or did you get the arf version? I have the bnf version and I can't get the thing stable even after fiddling with the mechanical stuff, gain, and pid settings.
The Ar636 just gets you hovering some what. The Ar7210bx is what I use and it works perfect.
Can you put the fusion 270 636 in rate mode to adjust the tail?
Very helpful man! When you plug in the flight pack will your tail servo start slowly drifting one direction?
No. It should not. That’s a 6250 weird thing. Recalibrate the 6250. No other gyro does that
Will do, thanks for the reply.
What mode is rate mode?do you mean like normal mode and 1&2?
does the 180 come with a micro beast? i tuned it every which way using PIDS forward programming, everything other adjustment you can do, sorry to say the blade 150s is better. just went to that
I'm new to rc helli's. Bought a nano s2. I've been flying for a while but crashed. The tail rotor only turns one way now. Do you think it's a bad motor or could it be something else?
Hey I’m not to good at helis but I had a trex 150 and a couple nano cpxs and the tail always moved left how do you get it so still?
Okay, but you had a extremely fast wag, and your using a FBL unit that doesn't come with the heli. how come you took off the AR636? my buddy just got a 270 and i just came in from first flight it has a slow wag. the tail does have the offset it should just like the 330s does. gyro gain lowered to 30 and its still wagging slow. Thanks
Hi Justin, would this sort of then also apply on a fusion 180 with Ikon2? thanks!
Yes, go in your radio gyro menu and go to a -55% in normal mode. You can check the IKon2 on the transmitter screen in the wizard program. You will see the number change and go out of heading hold. If number is different on radio than screen, adjust endpoint in travel on gyro like you did on the rest of the controls to get the correct number.
Butter my balls that was informative. Now I need to build my new 700X as a rookie.
How do you put it in rate mode?
Hello sir, having a rough time trying to set up the glain and gyro modes on my tx16s radio. I want all my models on one transmitter but it is a big fight with the open tx.
86 that radio. We are Spektrum around here.
love your vids coeshow. you should think about being a rc heli consultant lol. i would definitely pay for you advice on what to buy/how to set things up with what I have. nobody has time for shitty tech support. just saying!
I got the Fusion 270 BNF and this method is the same for AR636?
Hey man, it works! First: I reset ALL gyro settings and the funky style PID styles per the manuals suggested settings.
Second: had the tail servo centered and made the "bottom blade" point to the boom, kinda like a miniature "peace sign". It was not science, but 4*-8* degrees. Just a guess.
Third: put the gyro at -55 in FM1. And did a test...barely any wiggle. I was happy.
Last: put the gyro at stock. Little wiggly. Dropped it down two numbers. Much better.
Normal mode needed only 1 number and FM2 needed 5 numbers.
They tail is beat up, maybe lost 1mm on both blades. That will be fixed too
I have an Align 450L heli with an Align A10 transmitter. I'm transitioning from Horizon heli's with with self stabilization modes. How do I make the rudder response of the 450L less sensitive. (Also the aileron and elevator. These are manageable at present, but If I can make them less sensitive it will be appreciated.) My main concern is the rudder.. I need to slow it down until I become more confident proficient. All information will be appreciated.. Thank you,
I don’t know man. Align is on the opposite side of the fence from me. That radio is basically a Futaba. It’s all Greek to me. I am a Spektrum pilot for life.
@@CoeShow619 Dude, thanks for the effort.
Hello, Justin:
I am making some adjustments to my tail on the Blade 330s Helicopter. I understand that the Blade 330s flies in Heading Hold Mode by default. The manual for the 330s does not discuss Gyro Settings. Trying to follow your instructions from your video but I am unable to locate instructions for flying the 330s in Rate Mode. Can you assist? Is it possible to setup the Blade 330s to fly in rate mode?
Sorry man. The 6250hx does not have a rate mode. I have discussed this with the Spektrum techs. You basically must go to forward programming, set up, tail, subtrim, and in that subtrim menu, you will see the tail set where it thinks center is. Just leave the subtrim 0 but shorten or lengthen your tail pushrod to get the 2 or 3 degrees right tail rotor pitch as you are in that set up menu. This will help you get rid of the mechanical wag. The rest is in the PID tune. I do not change PID numbers on the 330s. You can also assign a Gain channel in forward programming to Aux 2 or 3 if your radio is capable and you can turn on the Gyro screen in radio and have control of the Gain numbers for each headspeed(stunt modes) and that way you don’t have to changes PID for the different headspeeds. Only the gain numbers.
@@CoeShow619
Hello, Justin:
Thank you for your feedback. I did as you suggested. I went to Forward Programming / Setup / Tail Rotor / Output Setup / Sub Trim / Left this value at 0 ( Zero ) and as the tail blades are pointed to the front of the 330s I have the bottom blade toward the boom at about or close to 2 - 3 degrees. When I exit Forward Programming and return to normal mode the bottom blade will turn as close to the boom as possible while the top blade turns the furthest from the boom as possible even after unplugging the battery and plugging it back in. The good news is there is no tail wag. That's awesome. I did not Setup the gyro. Would you have a good starting point for that or should I stay with the 330s Manual Setup? Thank you for your assistance today and making it possible for me to get back in the air with the 330s. I absolutely like this helicopter!
@@josephrogina3865 sounds like the tail rotor is creeping. Ok. Go to Forward programming, system set up, calibrate, complete. Make sure the heli is level like in a perfect hover on your table. Don’t move or shake the table. Hit calibrate. Hit complete. Done. No creep
@@CoeShow619
Good Morning, Justin:
I went into Forward Programming / System Setup / Calibrate Sensor / Begin
( I had a level on the boom to make sure the 330s was indeed level ). After Successfully completing the Calibration, I exited Forward Programming and disconnected / reconnected the battery ( I still have Hold Mode on - on switch H ). The bottom blade turns to the boom as close as it is able and the top blade turns away from the boom as far as it is able. I went back into Forward Programming / Setup / Tail Rotor / Output Setup / Sub Trim / (Still at 0 Zero ) and the bottom blade is still within 2 - 3 Degrees toward the boom and top blade away from the boom. I exit all the way out of Forward Programming / disconnect - reconnect the battery and the bottom blade is toward the boom as close as it can get and the top blade is away from the boom as far as it can get. If I take the collective stick and give it right rudder and let it return to center the top blade moves to the right and bottom blade moves to the leftmost position.
Note: The 330s flies ( Hovers ) good as far as I can tell. The tail does seem to hold its' position with very little correction commands from me. FYI: I am using the DX6 Spektrum Radio. In Forward Programming / Setup / I have the Gain Channel set to Aux 2, however, I haven't entered any Gyro Settings in the Radio and haven't changed any PID Settings. Thank You for your time, Justin.
Hey Justin,
Looking for your opinion on something.
Just bound a Blade 500 3D to NX10. Full test done with blades off everything okay. Out for first flight 60 seconds in test hover machine goes into violent tail spin. Checked programming 2nd flight does it again. Did a rebind, held in hover for 7 mins no problems. Now I don’t want to fly it until I come up with a reason for this to happen. Any input greatly appreciated.
Check the one way bearing in the main gear. If you hold the tail rotor, the main rotor should not spin alone. You are losing tail mechanically most likely. Or check to make sure the tail pulley is not spinning on the tail shaft. The tail shaft pulley should be glued in place or have a pin through it. If it’s spinning on the shaft, it needs to be replaced.
@@CoeShow619
Thanks Justin, one way bearing seems to be fine. Off to check the other parts.
Thanks again.
Actually I just thought something, which I was waiting for a new transmitter I was checking the machine over and tightened taildrive belt. If it was a little to tight would that cause the same problem?
@@BinderDundat if it’s too tight, it puts a bind on it. Just think about it. The main blade and tail blade turns together. If the main blade keeps going and the tail rotor stops or doesn’t function, the heli will spin nose left. If the tail servo is binding, it will stop working and the tail rotor won’t function, and it will spin. You are looking at it, all I can do is guess. If you have another 3060 tail servo, try that.
Check the set screw on the tail shaft hub.
Silly question I know, How do I switch from Heading to Rate Modes using my DX8?
If it is not a 6250hx, you just go to your gyro screen and put -55% in Normal mode. If it’s a 6250hx, it won’t do it. You have to just turn it on and not move the heli. Look for 2 degrees right pitch.
What does it mean whenever I give quick pitch movements the tail kicks out momentarily? Whenever I do hard maneuver the tail kicks out
Well if it is 7210, you can go to parameter menu, go to F and use either red flashing, or blue flashing to add rudder precomp to the right. The setting depends on the direction it needs to move. Red flashing is opposite of blue flashing. So watch the tail rotor while in Hold on the bench, and move throttle/pitch stick. Yoke on tail shaft should move a tiny bit toward boom. If you have a 6250 or a Ar636, they do not have this setting, hence I do not use those systems now days. If you only have one of those, you will have to adjust the gyro gain only. I believe every flybarless system should have rudder precompensation.
Cos. Iv got my tail mechanically set up right . I have a slow wag in stunt 1. I do have the 6250 controller. So normal and stunt 2 are good. I saw you said to adjust gain only 3% at a time. If I understand correctly slow wag is the I gain or should I probably turn P and I down a bit? I did lower head speed down to 70 in stunt 1 which I was expecting to have to raise the gain some. Thanks man.
Try more P and I first. Flip into stunt 1 switch position while in forward programming to make sure that you are adjusting the PID for stunt 1. It won't spool up as long as you are in forward programming.
CoeShow619 thanks bud!
CoeShow619 I think I’ve been adjusting to much at a time. I was going like 10%. Then I rewatched your vid and you mentioned 3% at a time. Maybe that’s my issue
CoeShow619 dude I got it worked out!! Thanks so much!! You da bomb.com!
Josh Wilson That’s rad. Just have fun and fly a lot.
Love that heli btw, bit I think .35 seconds into the video once you life it off the ground and it "wags" I think I know why it's doing that.... the gain is set too high.... Very common issue but of I'm wrong please learn me something lol....
why i'm watching this? i dont even have rc helicopter😅
Dude. After your rate mode adjustment you set the gain to 63 instead of the original 65. Then you dropped it even further.
Your results would have been the same if you had just dropped the gain to begin with.
Dude is a professional heli pilot and has been his whole life, I think he might know a thing or two 😉
Yeah dog! Thanks for the back up. Been my whole life.
@@BubbaB43 he knows a *_hell_* of a lot more than a thing or 2 & is also a great pilot. Did a freaking *_AMAZING_* job showing how to use rate mode to set up a mechanically neutral tail. First time pilot should be able to easily understand that tutorial. (But, honestly, they shouldn't actually attempt it. I've seen it cause a lot of crashes. So Just eyeball it (Align manuals are a good resource for this) & let the gyro do its work)
Gold stars for pointing out that travel limits need to be reset after adjusting the mechanics, be it push rod length or servo center. *_SO many_* people forget that step & fry servos, beat up mechanics, or on some heli's push the mechanics over center which is a guaranteed crash for a beginner.
Obviously knows the symptoms of a tail gain that's too high as well b/c he corrected for it at the end of the video.
But I stand by my statement. The fast tail oscillation demonstrated had everything to do with the tail gain being too high & and very, very, very, very little, *_if anything,_* to do with the poor mechanical setup.
And to be crystal clear, I'm not saying one should disregard an egregious mechanical error or that it's not best practice.
Just that the star of the show should have been the gain & its adjustment, not the pursuit of a mechanically/geometrically perfect tail.
It *_is_* required for scale flyers, but for modern heading hold gyros the offset is just another disturbance. No different than if you were flying in a steady crosswind, and if there's fast oscillation around the set point it's the gain causing it, not the steady disturbance.
People buy a relatively cheap collective pitch helicopter that is bnf and then whine if it's not 100% perfect out of the box. For those people I say "this hobby is not for you"
Where are you getting a helicopter for $200.
No where.