Something else replay takeover does is it that it helps the game evolve. You can not only learn about the other characters, you can learn/lab other players’ habits/tactics, and vice versa.
I'm going to have to unfortunately throw your dreams down the drain. Have you ever asked yourself why this isn't a staple? That's because Fighting Games have changed drastically throughout the years to compete in this digital landscape. Things like DLC stages, characters, outfits, and colors can all be for free if they opened it in training mode. Think about it. Training Mode you can simulate actual matches. If DLC was available in Training Mode why would I need to buy them? I can just set the values to normal with a round start call and everything and just play a local match with my friend on a character I never had to pay for. That's the only reason we aren't getting this as a staple for fighting games. There was an era but that era has long since passed..... It's a shame the community is like decades behind the devs mindsets
@@deco7217 I think the point they're trying to convey is something along the lines of "Why would they let you train against DLC characters without paying, even through a replay takeover" I don't agree with that though, since there's games that do let you use DLC in training mode, such as Multiversus, Brawlhalla and hilariously enough, For Honor. Also other games let you fight against DLC without owning them, but not as them, such as Guilty Gear Strive, where characters show up in arcade mode. (for example, if you own Bridget but not Goldlewis, you'll still fight Goldlewis in Bridget's arcade route)
THIS is the accessibility people have been asking for and needed. Every game needs strong training mode options: public hitbox viewer, public frame data, replay takeover, input display on replays - all included in the game It's like if every game that was played came with an itemized receipt. Fighting games that actually explains "what happens" and consistent online quality would do SO MUCH in retaining people.
Aside from how practical it is, it also does a good job of making learning the match up fun. Words cannot describe how satisfying it is when you get hit by a mixup, go back in time and practice the situation over and over, then get into a real match against the character and DP out that same mixup because you were ready for it this time.
Every FGC dev team should be legally obligated to include this godlike feature. +R blew my mind with this and is easily my favorite FG, partly because of replay takeover
I'm going to have to unfortunately throw your dreams down the drain. Have you ever asked yourself why this isn't a staple? That's because Fighting Games have changed drastically throughout the years to compete in this digital landscape. Things like DLC stages, characters, outfits, and colors can all be for free if they opened it in training mode. Think about it. Training Mode you can simulate actual matches. If DLC was available in Training Mode why would I need to buy them? I can just set the values to normal with a round start call and everything and just play a local match with my friend on a character I never had to pay for. That's the only reason we aren't getting this as a staple for fighting games. There was an era but that era has long since passed..... It's a shame the community is like decades behind the devs mindsets
@@tylercafe1260 what? DLC is not available in training mode for free because the developers want to earn money for their work. FGs are expensive to build and due to the long running nature of the games, require constant maintenance to stay relevant and that costs more money
@@tylercafe1260 my brother in christ you can only control your own character in the replay feature, and even if that wasn't the case what you said makes no sense either, people don't even like playing against the AI why would they enjoy playing the same part of a match all over again
Replay takeover is the greatest innovation in FG's we have seen since Rollback. I hope to see this becomes a critical feature faster than it did for rollback . thanks for the video so I can share with friends.
The Steam versions of KoF 02 UM and KoF 98 UM don't quite have this, but they do let you enter the dummy's inputs on a frame-by-frame basis, literally "writing" them out in a special menu. Definitely not as important as jumping into replays, but I still think it's something every game should have.
Replay takeover is amazing, as of now i believe there's like 3 FGs that have it (Fightcade just implemented it today) those being +r, Eternal Fighter Zero (This being the first one to actually implement it!) and the Breakers collection (Releasing in january of next year), is so good!
My main problem when it comes to training is not being able to lab something because I don't have or want the character I'm having trouble against especially after already buying the game for like $60 (looking at you GG strive)
That pleasant sensation when someone summarizes your exact opinion clearly, concisely, in a recorded format that one can just link to. Being required to execute something to lab against it effectively is a barrier people often don't realize is there until it's gone
this is the greatest fighting game yt channel ever, I mean, whats better than playing fighting games, talking about fighting games and listening to Monolord at the same time? The only thing that can make this better is to do all this with some friends and junk food
I have been preaching about this Feature ever since I first saw it in +R, I wouldnt have gotten into guilty gear as fast as I did without it its so amazing holy shit oh my fucking god it needs to be in EVERY fighting game.
I wasn't the dev who came up with the idea, but i was *a* dev working on the +R rollback/QoL update. Big thanks to sat0ri who was the majority of the effort behind the replay takeover, and I think the feature was one of the best ideas not just us but FG devs have had in a long time. If there's anyone you have to thank for this wonderful feature, it's him. I personally don't play +R anymore, I speedrun, but I would be profusely using this all the time to learn the game. I'm glad +R update wasn't just known for yknow, rollback as a lot of other things went into it: 3+ man lobbies of various types, quick rematch, a functional ranked match, etc. The comments and video have me speechless, even though I wasn't the one to lay hands on the feature. It's a reminder that what we did was impactful and helped a lot of people enjoy this game in a way they wouldn't be able to otherwise, which was the goal. Thank you TheoryFighter for the highlight, and everyone, keep on rockin'.
This, alongside rollback netcode and reasonable matchmaking should be in EVERY currently releasing fighting game with a decent budget. No excuses. Make your game systems as complex as you want, but also help people get to grips with them.
I'm in a TheoryFighter video! (Shout out to Carly Raou Jepsen, that guy is sick ;) ) But seriously, replay takeover is so unbelievably amazing. Once you experience it, it's hard to go back and try to learn games without it. I would even say that once you get to mid level and higher, it can be more valuable than training mode as a whole. Every new game release that goes by without it is very disappointing, and the first big new game to implement this feature will certainly be getting a lot of hours from me.
100% true. i cant do goldlewis running behemoths with jump inputs in strive, so its hard for me to get comfortable on defense. It's also an advanced technique not commonly seen in layer 1, so when I try to learn new characters when i play online its pretty rare for me to see it, and when they start bringing it out I can't really react and experiment.
I like to sit down and replay takeover as my opponent after they inflict a particularly savage beating on me and then imagine I was the one winning instead.
Re the inputs for training complex situations, there is not only replay takeover but also some 3rd party stuff like EddieInput that allows you to program complex mixups and loops instead of recording them for training. Should be helpful for labbing Zato in Accent core.
Been following your channel since Street Fighter 4 days where you taught people about option selects and safe jumps with Rose. I feel like you are the best teacher and I seriously feel like you can even teach college/university level courses on how to play. Thank you for your awesome content.
You know it's kind of funny. I'm a beginner myself, still getting my footing, learning what I do and don't enjoy and getting that muscle memory in. Been starting with Strive, as many do. But replay takeover puts into practice a feeling I've had about what Strive did differently to "hook" me. Funnily enough, from another way you mentioned learning. Which is via repeated matchups against the same foe rather than strings of Bo3. It felt like very often, when I'd play another fighting game against someone who wasn't a beginner. I'd just spend a whole match eating blockstrings in a corner, or getting combos when I failed to see a mixup. But that changed when, having those thrown at me repeatedly and consistently, I started to find the ways to react. The timing for a DP or even just a quick kick to break free and take my turn back. I think that's really important, and replay takeover is perhaps a more practical implementation of it if a game doesn't wish to use Strive's arcade emulation lobby style. Just so long as the player is encouraged to use it. Realizing that, even at a low skill level, you have a lot of power in how you respond to an offensive, that's a big deal. Maybe not as flashy as pulling off that sweet optimal combo you spent an hour labbing, but I think it's infinitely more impactful as far as utilizing your characters full kit and maximum ability. Plus like, I keep running into people on floor 6 who'll have a 40 hit wallbreak combo memorized and pull it of 4 times a match. But keep losing to a command grab when getting up after a knockdown. Which is I guess a more memey way of getting across the feeling I have about it as a total newbie.
I had no idea +R got a feature like this. It does sound amazing for learning particular aspects of a matchup, and I absolutely agree that it should be in every FG.
Great video! I wonder which game invented replay takeover. The earliest one I know of is the 2003 PS2 port of Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou, but I have no idea whether or not there are earlier examples.
WHOA! This feature is so fucking SICK! I wish we got that more because that would be SO GOOD for training! i personally have a hard time trying to recreate situations that i get stumped on in the training room so to be able to do that would be so GOOD! I'd love to see this in more fighting games!!
More fighting games need Replay Takeover. GG Axxent Core is a fucking godsend in this regard. EDIT: Also quick rewind and fast-forward tools. Every time I jump into a Counter-Strike replay it's always a pain in the ass watching the ENTIRE game needing to reload when I skip forward two seconds.
I wonder if it would be possible to mod in a "copy-paste" replay function in training mode to games that have rollback and save replays. Because the replay file the game saves is just a string of inputs from both players that it plays back for you in the replay feature. Thus, it shouldn't be too big of a leap to have a mod that can read the replay file while you're in training mode (or even just copy inputs from it) so you can implement the feature into those games.
Because of the skill ceiling and learning curve, Fighting games struggle enveloping win states Imagine if in order to go a round of go-karts, you had to get a kart licence, work out with a grip resistance for a month to tune your motor skills, and roll up to the speedway with proof of a close shave (at age 14) before you can even step foot on the course In that format, the market would fail because it can never outperform the previous years sales. You shoot yourself in the foot when you create barriers to entry or at the very least make your experience exclusionary. The gaming industry is not a country club for retired entrepreneurs, you need eyeballs. Particularly young eyeballs with a significant amount of free time on their hands Games are like the sneakers, the ball/equipment, and the entire court all in one sitting. The only way to sell someone on this is to make the experience attractive behind a glass barrier. So sports have auditoriums with hardened professionals rallying their skills what do games have? Online. Trouble is you get online and you are playing _against_ the professional to the point where you rarely even see play. So at no point are the values of the experience exposing themselves to the mind. Game devs for fighters are aware of this problem, but they are not promoters, the are programmers. They can only approach the issue of poor sales through iteration. New games, patches, expanded content. Essentially, make hay while the sun is shining If they were more committed to the prospect of getting people to see WHY they ought to play their game, they would model the experience around results. Ways that seeing play goes beyond the win This is why games like Killer Instinct, Guilty Gear, and Smash work really well. Everything about those games is interpreting what the character can *do* and how to compound *doing* within the engine. It's not so much _seeing_ play as it is knowing what gets play and getting to the point where your approach can become interesting Everyone knows that showing up to the Olympics means that you have proven to be a contender. The rest of that experience is finding out what makes the Gold. Then it's about the nuance of technique, timing, genetics, and other factors that qualify as strength I highly doubt a person would get to peak performance if every day of his humble beginnings were spent getting knocked down and barred from even trying. It's amazing that software developers can matriculate the horizontal and the vertical, but can't seem to grasp that their enormous game can only incorporate an hour's worth of play This may have worked in the coin op days, but these days it's exceptionally time consuming to be good at something niche like a fighting game. Try basket weaving or day trading
I just found out about this. It's such a great tool, I'm surprised more games don't implement it. A lot of newbies usually ignore replays but this could help nudge them in the right direction.
I'd imagine an advanced evolution of this would be frame-by-frame input creator. Similar to the combo recipie system in Strive, but instead letting you save TAS level inputs to create your own nightmare mixup to devise an escape for as opposed to relying on raw, real-time execution.
I want this in BBCF so badly. Everyone I play has been playing this game for like 5 years and playing matches against better players can feel like I'm not learning anything at all, and I absolutely do not have the time to go learn how to do all their shit just to lab against it. Training tools make such a huge difference in how you can play a game. superb video.
So glad you did a video about this. I havent seen anyone talk about how truly amazing this is and how not only can it help a game improve but players at every level. This is pure chef's kiss and you hit every mark. Hopefully more games do this because I'm pretty sure +R is the only fighting game with this feature in it.
This sounds amazing. I regularly forget all the things I want to practice when I do check my replays, and having this feature would be so helpful to just let me work on each thing as it comes up.
This or at least Xrd's matchup tutorials (or both) really should just be staples in fighting games. Combo maker too. Really, this stuff should've been standard years ago.
Shoutouts to Tekken 7s replay system giving you some tips like this move could be crouch dodged. That is at least somewhat helpful on its own and could work wonders in conjunction with replay takeover.
That's all well and good, but things like these or intricate labbing setting are hard for me. I never learn how to operate this stuff and it doesn't help that I haven't graduated from media-related side at all...So instead I'll go with experience, trial and error.
Its like real fighting coachs, were they mimic the next rival with recordings in real time, like mitts in boxing, they make real movements that you can understand and counter, i have seen it in a ton of FGC videos, but FG are just like fighting, so trying to ground it to what people actually experience or actual fighting coaches do is the way to go.
some games have frame-by-frame action input for training mode, so if you understand how something is done, you can make the computer player do it without having to actually execute it yourself. useful as a supplement to replay takeover.
Great video, but I don’t think this feature will help new players get into the genre that wouldn’t have otherwise. Going into your replays to analyze situations and find counters is something only mid to high level players do IMO. Not to mention a new player won’t know/think about a lot of things to help them analyze the situation and find counterplay.
The thing that's going to hook new players IMO is quality single-player content... and I'm not talking about cinematic story modes that you can fully experience on youtube. Rather than a text tutorial the size of a small novel, teach the player how to play the game organically using a story/adventure mode, other genres have been doing this stuff since the dawn of the gaming industry and I don't think it's too big of an ask for the fighting game genre to finally get on that boat.
@@kevingriffith6011 Yeah that is a great idea, though I can think of a few fighting game specific problems that would make using a story mode to effectively teach the player quite the design challenge.
@@mariocraft3067 Part of that I think comes down to enemy design. You can teach your players a lot by putting them up against enemies that behave in a certain way, especially if you tell them that they're going to behave that way beforehand. Not just "This guy is a grappler" or "This guy jumps a lot", but telling players "this creature will always mash on block", "This creature will always EX DP on block", stuff like that, and use a hint system if players get stuck on a behavior they can't figure out. Get players used to opponents presenting common options so that they can identify these behaviors in their human opponents. Frame data and...oddly blocking would be hard to teach without text, but most of the basic mechanics aren't that tough for people to figure out. Steal one from Fantasy Strike and change the color of the block sparks when your move is plus, minus or even, give the players as much data as you can in game so they don't have to dig up frame data online... Even more advanced things like RPS can be taught... the real problem is that the AI would have to be much *much* more than an afterthought... and making an NPC fighter is much more work than making a monster in an RPG.
@@kevingriffith6011 To be cost effective, they would have to modify AI behavior of existing characters (assuming they don't have easy character creation options like SF6). I second giving the frame data in-game, even better if you can see if for a move the moment you perform it.
Also I generally have the mentality that I will learn any fighting game that offers interactive replay, I dont really care too much about Tekken but if T8 gets interactive replay I will become a Tekken Player.
Replay takeover feels like a baseline feature for a modern, connected game. Imagine Evo Moment 37 - but it's you, not Daigo, who needs to to the parries. Lots of potential!
Can replay takeover be the greatest feature if less than 1% of players will ever use it? There are so many other amazing features but this is the one you are calling the greatest?
It might feel a bit accessory, but once you get to use it, it feels just so incredibly useful to have to figure out any situations you struggled with. It makes the whole learning process just make more sense. I cannot say it enough, but the loop of playing matches > using the replays to figure out stuff that impacted you directly works a lot better than going raw into training mode for a game like this one.
Do they perhaps have this in BB:CF? Learning characters takes quite a bit of time and is quite time-consuming as well This tool could be extremely useful to learning the match-ups between various characters!
Such a fantastic tool for players like myself who have poor execution in general it's a shame it hasn't been implemented in any games I personally like yet but hopefully that's just a matter of time.
That's an incredible tool. An absolute must-have for every fighting game moving forward, especially if you can use it for OTHER PEOPLE'S matches. Imagine playing EVO Finals replays and stuff, very useful but also cool!
training modes...are laterally evolving :( there's newer features but moreso things weve already been doing but them providing more convenient ways. replay takeover tho is for sure a huge innovation. i really hope strive gets it soon...for s3. the thing about the game recommending a tutorial (or much much better, a mini game) would honestly change the entire landscape. Idk it's frustrating because it often feels like devs dont really think of ways to truly advance gaming until people yell about it...but anyways i guess we'll just have to keep on going. thanks for the video.
Its a good alternative to "ayyo lemme just lab out this 30 hit combo with 3 microdashes on a character I will never, ever play myself, even once, because they hold absolutely no appeal, so I can record the AI doing it and see when I could escape"
Should of figured Arcsys would be the one to make a feature like this, they're on top of that stuff. I've actually been wanting to make a fighting game and this is almost identical to a feature I wanted to put in.
I had no idea this was in +R. I'm gonna need to pick it back up. I had the same idea, but I wanted it to work for combos too. Basically if Strive's downloadable combos would auto-play and let you press buttons to take control when you want. So like for a tricky re-jump combo you can just watch it on repeat, or take control right before the re-jump so you can find the right timing. My idea was that you'd have like a timeline that would work for whole matches like replay takeover does, but you could use anything, like downloaded combos or setting the cpu to perform specfic actions. Considering that arcsys has both replay takeover and recordable combos, hopefully they'll stick the two together and make my dreams come true.
Little sad you didnt mention that fightcade just added this to a huge selection of games since it literally happened the other day.
Something else replay takeover does is it that it helps the game evolve. You can not only learn about the other characters, you can learn/lab other players’ habits/tactics, and vice versa.
It's a feature I never realized I wanted. Some sifi shit
I'm going to have to unfortunately throw your dreams down the drain. Have you ever asked yourself why this isn't a staple? That's because Fighting Games have changed drastically throughout the years to compete in this digital landscape. Things like DLC stages, characters, outfits, and colors can all be for free if they opened it in training mode. Think about it. Training Mode you can simulate actual matches. If DLC was available in Training Mode why would I need to buy them? I can just set the values to normal with a round start call and everything and just play a local match with my friend on a character I never had to pay for. That's the only reason we aren't getting this as a staple for fighting games. There was an era but that era has long since passed..... It's a shame the community is like decades behind the devs mindsets
@@tylercafe1260 How is DLC in training mode even remotely related to replay takeover in any other fashion than both being fighting game related?
@@deco7217 I think the point they're trying to convey is something along the lines of "Why would they let you train against DLC characters without paying, even through a replay takeover"
I don't agree with that though, since there's games that do let you use DLC in training mode, such as Multiversus, Brawlhalla and hilariously enough, For Honor.
Also other games let you fight against DLC without owning them, but not as them, such as Guilty Gear Strive, where characters show up in arcade mode.
(for example, if you own Bridget but not Goldlewis, you'll still fight Goldlewis in Bridget's arcade route)
@@nfsman3452 Here's the problem with that scenario though. No one is stopping these game companies from saying, "but money, so get bent".
THIS is the accessibility people have been asking for and needed.
Every game needs strong training mode options: public hitbox viewer, public frame data, replay takeover, input display on replays - all included in the game
It's like if every game that was played came with an itemized receipt.
Fighting games that actually explains "what happens" and consistent online quality would do SO MUCH in retaining people.
Another thing that's great with this mechanic is that it encourages players to actually watch replays.
I didn't even know +R had replays tbh
Aside from how practical it is, it also does a good job of making learning the match up fun. Words cannot describe how satisfying it is when you get hit by a mixup, go back in time and practice the situation over and over, then get into a real match against the character and DP out that same mixup because you were ready for it this time.
Every FGC dev team should be legally obligated to include this godlike feature. +R blew my mind with this and is easily my favorite FG, partly because of replay takeover
I'm going to have to unfortunately throw your dreams down the drain. Have you ever asked yourself why this isn't a staple? That's because Fighting Games have changed drastically throughout the years to compete in this digital landscape. Things like DLC stages, characters, outfits, and colors can all be for free if they opened it in training mode. Think about it. Training Mode you can simulate actual matches. If DLC was available in Training Mode why would I need to buy them? I can just set the values to normal with a round start call and everything and just play a local match with my friend on a character I never had to pay for. That's the only reason we aren't getting this as a staple for fighting games. There was an era but that era has long since passed..... It's a shame the community is like decades behind the devs mindsets
@@tylercafe1260 what? DLC is not available in training mode for free because the developers want to earn money for their work. FGs are expensive to build and due to the long running nature of the games, require constant maintenance to stay relevant and that costs more money
@@tylercafe1260 my brother in christ you can only control your own character in the replay feature, and even if that wasn't the case what you said makes no sense either, people don't even like playing against the AI why would they enjoy playing the same part of a match all over again
@@anormalhumanhopefully8570 you can take control of either character with the replay feature, as stated in the video.
@@singlevidonly okay that doesn't disprove the rest of what i said bruh
Replay takeover is the greatest innovation in FG's we have seen since Rollback. I hope to see this becomes a critical feature faster than it did for rollback . thanks for the video so I can share with friends.
TF putting me on blast in that replay haha. Replay takeover is amazing, absolutely amazing.
The Steam versions of KoF 02 UM and KoF 98 UM don't quite have this, but they do let you enter the dummy's inputs on a frame-by-frame basis, literally "writing" them out in a special menu. Definitely not as important as jumping into replays, but I still think it's something every game should have.
Replay takeover is amazing, as of now i believe there's like 3 FGs that have it (Fightcade just implemented it today) those being +r, Eternal Fighter Zero (This being the first one to actually implement it!) and the Breakers collection (Releasing in january of next year), is so good!
It’s in Your Only Move Is Hustle (If that counts).
@@meathir4921 ooh didn't know that, nice
Breaker's Collection is finally dropping? Man that's like 3 years after it was supposed to drop. Glad its finally on the way.
@@justingoers Yeah! They now even have am official twitter page with the release date!
EFZ wins again!
My main problem when it comes to training is not being able to lab something because I don't have or want the character I'm having trouble against especially after already buying the game for like $60 (looking at you GG strive)
And guess what? Fightcade just dropped a new update featuring none other then replay takeover.
That pleasant sensation when someone summarizes your exact opinion clearly, concisely, in a recorded format that one can just link to. Being required to execute something to lab against it effectively is a barrier people often don't realize is there until it's gone
this is the greatest fighting game yt channel ever, I mean, whats better than playing fighting games, talking about fighting games and listening to Monolord at the same time? The only thing that can make this better is to do all this with some friends and junk food
I have been preaching about this Feature ever since I first saw it in +R, I wouldnt have gotten into guilty gear as fast as I did without it its so amazing holy shit oh my fucking god it needs to be in EVERY fighting game.
Theory Fighter made a new video what a great Christmas gift. Have a good holiday everyone!!
I wasn't the dev who came up with the idea, but i was *a* dev working on the +R rollback/QoL update. Big thanks to sat0ri who was the majority of the effort behind the replay takeover, and I think the feature was one of the best ideas not just us but FG devs have had in a long time. If there's anyone you have to thank for this wonderful feature, it's him.
I personally don't play +R anymore, I speedrun, but I would be profusely using this all the time to learn the game. I'm glad +R update wasn't just known for yknow, rollback as a lot of other things went into it: 3+ man lobbies of various types, quick rematch, a functional ranked match, etc.
The comments and video have me speechless, even though I wasn't the one to lay hands on the feature. It's a reminder that what we did was impactful and helped a lot of people enjoy this game in a way they wouldn't be able to otherwise, which was the goal. Thank you TheoryFighter for the highlight, and everyone, keep on rockin'.
This, alongside rollback netcode and reasonable matchmaking should be in EVERY currently releasing fighting game with a decent budget.
No excuses.
Make your game systems as complex as you want, but also help people get to grips with them.
can't unhear you saying ai-know instead of i-no
YOU ROCK TF!!!!!
I'm in a TheoryFighter video! (Shout out to Carly Raou Jepsen, that guy is sick ;) ) But seriously, replay takeover is so unbelievably amazing. Once you experience it, it's hard to go back and try to learn games without it. I would even say that once you get to mid level and higher, it can be more valuable than training mode as a whole. Every new game release that goes by without it is very disappointing, and the first big new game to implement this feature will certainly be getting a lot of hours from me.
Yyoooooo I love ur videos so much!!!
fightcade just added this
This was amazing mate. Just about to get into +R again and you've thrown me back in!
100% true. i cant do goldlewis running behemoths with jump inputs in strive, so its hard for me to get comfortable on defense. It's also an advanced technique not commonly seen in layer 1, so when I try to learn new characters when i play online its pretty rare for me to see it, and when they start bringing it out I can't really react and experiment.
I like to sit down and replay takeover as my opponent after they inflict a particularly savage beating on me and then imagine I was the one winning instead.
Hurry everyone, Theory Fighter has made a new video🏃 💨.
Re the inputs for training complex situations, there is not only replay takeover but also some 3rd party stuff like EddieInput that allows you to program complex mixups and loops instead of recording them for training. Should be helpful for labbing Zato in Accent core.
Been following your channel since Street Fighter 4 days where you taught people about option selects and safe jumps with Rose. I feel like you are the best teacher and I seriously feel like you can even teach college/university level courses on how to play. Thank you for your awesome content.
Imagine a system that goes through all your recordings and compiles a list of the most common mistakes you made into a “personalized training” mode.
One of the best channels on YT. Keep up the good work
You know it's kind of funny. I'm a beginner myself, still getting my footing, learning what I do and don't enjoy and getting that muscle memory in. Been starting with Strive, as many do. But replay takeover puts into practice a feeling I've had about what Strive did differently to "hook" me. Funnily enough, from another way you mentioned learning. Which is via repeated matchups against the same foe rather than strings of Bo3.
It felt like very often, when I'd play another fighting game against someone who wasn't a beginner. I'd just spend a whole match eating blockstrings in a corner, or getting combos when I failed to see a mixup. But that changed when, having those thrown at me repeatedly and consistently, I started to find the ways to react. The timing for a DP or even just a quick kick to break free and take my turn back. I think that's really important, and replay takeover is perhaps a more practical implementation of it if a game doesn't wish to use Strive's arcade emulation lobby style. Just so long as the player is encouraged to use it. Realizing that, even at a low skill level, you have a lot of power in how you respond to an offensive, that's a big deal. Maybe not as flashy as pulling off that sweet optimal combo you spent an hour labbing, but I think it's infinitely more impactful as far as utilizing your characters full kit and maximum ability.
Plus like, I keep running into people on floor 6 who'll have a 40 hit wallbreak combo memorized and pull it of 4 times a match. But keep losing to a command grab when getting up after a knockdown. Which is I guess a more memey way of getting across the feeling I have about it as a total newbie.
I had no idea +R got a feature like this. It does sound amazing for learning particular aspects of a matchup, and I absolutely agree that it should be in every FG.
Great video! I wonder which game invented replay takeover. The earliest one I know of is the 2003 PS2 port of Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou, but I have no idea whether or not there are earlier examples.
Am glad they had this in chess. I can archive the game and go through it manually to see where my prep went wrong
WHOA! This feature is so fucking SICK! I wish we got that more because that would be SO GOOD for training! i personally have a hard time trying to recreate situations that i get stumped on in the training room so to be able to do that would be so GOOD! I'd love to see this in more fighting games!!
metalhead FGC game design content? the youtube algorithm knows me better than anyone else
keep your besties close and your worsties closer
-tsun zu
thumbnail lead me to believe this was an in depth explanation of guilty gear instant kills.
Yo, new theory vid! Also, more replays need rewind. It is scary how many games don't have it as a feature.
This should be the next rollback
Every fighting game player should demand this feature
More fighting games need Replay Takeover. GG Axxent Core is a fucking godsend in this regard.
EDIT: Also quick rewind and fast-forward tools. Every time I jump into a Counter-Strike replay it's always a pain in the ass watching the ENTIRE game needing to reload when I skip forward two seconds.
I wonder if it would be possible to mod in a "copy-paste" replay function in training mode to games that have rollback and save replays. Because the replay file the game saves is just a string of inputs from both players that it plays back for you in the replay feature. Thus, it shouldn't be too big of a leap to have a mod that can read the replay file while you're in training mode (or even just copy inputs from it) so you can implement the feature into those games.
Because of the skill ceiling and learning curve, Fighting games struggle enveloping win states
Imagine if in order to go a round of go-karts, you had to get a kart licence, work out with a grip resistance for a month to tune your motor skills, and roll up to the speedway with proof of a close shave (at age 14) before you can even step foot on the course
In that format, the market would fail because it can never outperform the previous years sales. You shoot yourself in the foot when you create barriers to entry or at the very least make your experience exclusionary. The gaming industry is not a country club for retired entrepreneurs, you need eyeballs. Particularly young eyeballs with a significant amount of free time on their hands
Games are like the sneakers, the ball/equipment, and the entire court all in one sitting. The only way to sell someone on this is to make the experience attractive behind a glass barrier. So sports have auditoriums with hardened professionals rallying their skills what do games have?
Online.
Trouble is you get online and you are playing _against_ the professional to the point where you rarely even see play. So at no point are the values of the experience exposing themselves to the mind. Game devs for fighters are aware of this problem, but they are not promoters, the are programmers. They can only approach the issue of poor sales through iteration. New games, patches, expanded content. Essentially, make hay while the sun is shining
If they were more committed to the prospect of getting people to see WHY they ought to play their game, they would model the experience around results. Ways that seeing play goes beyond the win
This is why games like Killer Instinct, Guilty Gear, and Smash work really well. Everything about those games is interpreting what the character can *do* and how to compound *doing* within the engine. It's not so much _seeing_ play as it is knowing what gets play and getting to the point where your approach can become interesting
Everyone knows that showing up to the Olympics means that you have proven to be a contender. The rest of that experience is finding out what makes the Gold. Then it's about the nuance of technique, timing, genetics, and other factors that qualify as strength
I highly doubt a person would get to peak performance if every day of his humble beginnings were spent getting knocked down and barred from even trying. It's amazing that software developers can matriculate the horizontal and the vertical, but can't seem to grasp that their enormous game can only incorporate an hour's worth of play
This may have worked in the coin op days, but these days it's exceptionally time consuming to be good at something niche like a fighting game. Try basket weaving or day trading
Thanks for putting out such good videos! They are consistently interesting, nuanced, and insightful. Bravo!
0:01 Custom combos can be so amazing
Unrestricted…Unpredictable
I just found out about this. It's such a great tool, I'm surprised more games don't implement it. A lot of newbies usually ignore replays but this could help nudge them in the right direction.
I love this and the description is brilliant.
Eternal Fighter Zero has had this for years :D
This makes sense, hope this video blows up more.
And now Fightcade, which you also love, is getting this too!
I'd imagine an advanced evolution of this would be frame-by-frame input creator. Similar to the combo recipie system in Strive, but instead letting you save TAS level inputs to create your own nightmare mixup to devise an escape for as opposed to relying on raw, real-time execution.
this existed in fightcade way before replay takeover
I want this in BBCF so badly. Everyone I play has been playing this game for like 5 years and playing matches against better players can feel like I'm not learning anything at all, and I absolutely do not have the time to go learn how to do all their shit just to lab against it. Training tools make such a huge difference in how you can play a game. superb video.
to make matters worse, its replay theatre fucking hides the inputs when paused
Who's your main?
@@Ticketman99 rachel
@@lintecassidy206 I see. In that case, the feature would be incredibly helpful for you.
@@Ticketman99 yeah lmao
So glad you did a video about this. I havent seen anyone talk about how truly amazing this is and how not only can it help a game improve but players at every level. This is pure chef's kiss and you hit every mark. Hopefully more games do this because I'm pretty sure +R is the only fighting game with this feature in it.
MONOLORD - Empress Rising instrumental. badass
My only reason to play training mode was listening to my favorite background music .
I first found out about this feature in Eternal Fighter Zero, it's such a game changer.
i swear bro u have some of the best scripting in the fighting game theory side of the fgc.
nice music in the background
If this video ain't about how in Soulcalibur how you can keep making the enemy scream in agony after beating them...
This sounds amazing. I regularly forget all the things I want to practice when I do check my replays, and having this feature would be so helpful to just let me work on each thing as it comes up.
This or at least Xrd's matchup tutorials (or both) really should just be staples in fighting games. Combo maker too. Really, this stuff should've been standard years ago.
Progress can be slow, but it's still Progress
This is so awesome, i wish ppl would make it for melee
>Please add to SF6, i beg.
you did it
@3:00 "eye-no"
NO
Shoutouts to Tekken 7s replay system giving you some tips like this move could be crouch dodged. That is at least somewhat helpful on its own and could work wonders in conjunction with replay takeover.
4:13 YO! 😮
wow that feature looks so good I wish every game had this!!! that's so crazy that you can even do that.
woah they added King crimson to fighting games
Wake up babe, new theory fighter video dropped
Awesome video and topic!
That's all well and good, but things like these or intricate labbing setting are hard for me. I never learn how to operate this stuff and it doesn't help that I haven't graduated from media-related side at all...So instead I'll go with experience, trial and error.
i’m only now noticing that the title says “Feature” instead of “Failure”
Also time speed control is pretty rad.
Its like real fighting coachs, were they mimic the next rival with recordings in real time, like mitts in boxing, they make real movements that you can understand and counter, i have seen it in a ton of FGC videos, but FG are just like fighting, so trying to ground it to what people actually experience or actual fighting coaches do is the way to go.
Nice! I didn't know about this, and I hope it comes to many more games!
some games have frame-by-frame action input for training mode, so if you understand how something is done, you can make the computer player do it without having to actually execute it yourself. useful as a supplement to replay takeover.
Great video, but I don’t think this feature will help new players get into the genre that wouldn’t have otherwise. Going into your replays to analyze situations and find counters is something only mid to high level players do IMO. Not to mention a new player won’t know/think about a lot of things to help them analyze the situation and find counterplay.
The thing that's going to hook new players IMO is quality single-player content... and I'm not talking about cinematic story modes that you can fully experience on youtube. Rather than a text tutorial the size of a small novel, teach the player how to play the game organically using a story/adventure mode, other genres have been doing this stuff since the dawn of the gaming industry and I don't think it's too big of an ask for the fighting game genre to finally get on that boat.
@@kevingriffith6011 Yeah that is a great idea, though I can think of a few fighting game specific problems that would make using a story mode to effectively teach the player quite the design challenge.
@@mariocraft3067 Part of that I think comes down to enemy design. You can teach your players a lot by putting them up against enemies that behave in a certain way, especially if you tell them that they're going to behave that way beforehand. Not just "This guy is a grappler" or "This guy jumps a lot", but telling players "this creature will always mash on block", "This creature will always EX DP on block", stuff like that, and use a hint system if players get stuck on a behavior they can't figure out. Get players used to opponents presenting common options so that they can identify these behaviors in their human opponents. Frame data and...oddly blocking would be hard to teach without text, but most of the basic mechanics aren't that tough for people to figure out. Steal one from Fantasy Strike and change the color of the block sparks when your move is plus, minus or even, give the players as much data as you can in game so they don't have to dig up frame data online... Even more advanced things like RPS can be taught... the real problem is that the AI would have to be much *much* more than an afterthought... and making an NPC fighter is much more work than making a monster in an RPG.
@@kevingriffith6011 To be cost effective, they would have to modify AI behavior of existing characters (assuming they don't have easy character creation options like SF6). I second giving the frame data in-game, even better if you can see if for a move the moment you perform it.
+R chads stay winning
But think of the poor Hungrybox's of the world, who rely on people not being able to lab against their character/strats.
Also I generally have the mentality that I will learn any fighting game that offers interactive replay, I dont really care too much about Tekken but if T8 gets interactive replay I will become a Tekken Player.
Yes a million times every game needs this
No.. way, I was just playing +R and didn't know it had this.
Replay takeover feels like a baseline feature for a modern, connected game. Imagine Evo Moment 37 - but it's you, not Daigo, who needs to to the parries. Lots of potential!
Literally baffled to how this isn't a standard thing. It isn't even in newer Guilty Gears??
Can replay takeover be the greatest feature if less than 1% of players will ever use it? There are so many other amazing features but this is the one you are calling the greatest?
Naw replay is God tier
@@cam0x195 God tier sure, but the best ever?
It might feel a bit accessory, but once you get to use it, it feels just so incredibly useful to have to figure out any situations you struggled with. It makes the whole learning process just make more sense.
I cannot say it enough, but the loop of playing matches > using the replays to figure out stuff that impacted you directly works a lot better than going raw into training mode for a game like this one.
Made into an example in a theoryfighter video 😔
Do they perhaps have this in BB:CF?
Learning characters takes quite a bit of time and is quite time-consuming as well
This tool could be extremely useful to learning the match-ups between various characters!
Perfect timing as it was just implemented on FC2 too! haha
What really? Holy shit
Such a fantastic tool for players like myself who have poor execution in general it's a shame it hasn't been implemented in any games I personally like yet but hopefully that's just a matter of time.
Didn't know this was in fightcade, too sick
That's an incredible tool. An absolute must-have for every fighting game moving forward, especially if you can use it for OTHER PEOPLE'S matches. Imagine playing EVO Finals replays and stuff, very useful but also cool!
Wow now I'm gonna need to want it on every fighting game. Good stuff!
Fighting Games' Greatest Feature:
TH-cam's Greatest Feature: 1.5x - 2x Speed
So basically takeover is the fighting game equivalent of rehearsing the perfect comeback in the shower after the fact
Tekken 8 with Replay Takeover would literally be revolutionary
training modes...are laterally evolving :( there's newer features but moreso things weve already been doing but them providing more convenient ways. replay takeover tho is for sure a huge innovation. i really hope strive gets it soon...for s3. the thing about the game recommending a tutorial (or much much better, a mini game) would honestly change the entire landscape. Idk it's frustrating because it often feels like devs dont really think of ways to truly advance gaming until people yell about it...but anyways i guess we'll just have to keep on going. thanks for the video.
Its a good alternative to "ayyo lemme just lab out this 30 hit combo with 3 microdashes on a character I will never, ever play myself, even once, because they hold absolutely no appeal, so I can record the AI doing it and see when I could escape"
Should of figured Arcsys would be the one to make a feature like this, they're on top of that stuff. I've actually been wanting to make a fighting game and this is almost identical to a feature I wanted to put in.
I had no idea this was in +R. I'm gonna need to pick it back up.
I had the same idea, but I wanted it to work for combos too. Basically if Strive's downloadable combos would auto-play and let you press buttons to take control when you want. So like for a tricky re-jump combo you can just watch it on repeat, or take control right before the re-jump so you can find the right timing.
My idea was that you'd have like a timeline that would work for whole matches like replay takeover does, but you could use anything, like downloaded combos or setting the cpu to perform specfic actions. Considering that arcsys has both replay takeover and recordable combos, hopefully they'll stick the two together and make my dreams come true.