Loved how respectful this conversation was. We don't need to agree but we need to be civil and attentive to the other persons views. Nobody here is trying to convert the other person or prove them wrong. Masterclass
I'm impressed This is my second interview I've seen you do and I have to say I love it! I usually don't listen to skeptics but you've outdone yourself, well done..
I had a vivid, detailed and memorable dream about meeting Oliver Reed who's final words to me was "I'm very tired, so if you want my life advice, you better be quick, because once I lie down and shut my eyes, don't even think about trying to wake me up" 24 hours later, on the evening news , I learned of his death.. I was flabbergasted
@gps9715 well, on the Sunday morning I related the dream to my partner, as was my habit at the time .... and wasn't until the early evening news that we learned of his passing during the Saturday night as we slept, she can corroborate and we were both in disbelief ... maybe just pure coincidence.... but the events happened in that order... I'm a massive skeptic, debunker of the paranormal and pseudoscience...but I'm not mistaken, have no reason to lie and have no explanation ...
@@clungebucket23 Hmm, interesting. Especially since you are a skeptic like myself and I would assume most here. I don't know what to make of it, but I've never had anything mystical or whatever you want to call it happen to me so....that's probably why I said what I said.
@gps9715 I'll spare you the full transcript which I forwarded to The Pub in Valetta and Ken Russell shortly afterwards. But I'll share two stunning dream details ; The first of which is that his face was red and sweaty and he appeared to be wearing only a white sheet. It wasn't until I saw him in his last film ,Gladiator did I see him in a white Toga . The film was ,unbeknownst to me, being shot partly in Malta, he died during filming and I think it was the first time that they used digital rendering to insert him into his last few scenes . The second detail was that the beginning of the dream involved me Gladiator sword fighting with a close friend of mine ... when Ollie turned up to admonish me for dicking around immediately so he could impart some life advice, that we'd previously arranged to meet and I'd forgotten in the heat of play with my friend, which is when Ollie said that he was tired , I better hurry up otherwise I was warned not to wake him up and break our agreement. The detail being, is that I was sword fighting with spirit levels....a detail of which I didn't pay much attention to( as use these in my line of work) until many weeks later when relating to a group of friends until one of them stopped me and pointed out; .."spirit level?... as in 'on the the spirit level'..."??? Suffice to say our collective minds were utterly blown.
I think we have a dogmatic skeptic and an open minded skeptic talking respectfully to each other and it was great though i would love to have gotten a third speaker like grant cameron or richard dolan who are full blown believers and scholars to weigh in all in all solid discussion
Skeptics by definition - are those who doubt. Not believe or disbelief. Like being open to the possibility. However, those who disbelief are known as, 'PsuedoSkeptics'.
There are thousands reports of bigfoot (or ghosts, or aliens for that matter) and when it's about precog dreams or oobe, rules are different? We know better than that. Anyhow this is interesting chat, as always, thank you guys
Consider "a stasis bubble", no atom of molecule decay/change can happen with it. Person inside it stops experiencing time, sort of travels to the future.
Just because you can't count something out doesn't mean that you can count it in! Counting something in means you have convincing evidence that it exists. Just because you can imagine that something exists doesn't mean that it exists. If all you've got is imagination that's not good enough. The ability to imagine that something exists is neither necessary nor sufficient for something to actually exist. Having said that imaginary concepts like justice, numbers, human rights are useful in regulating human affairs particularly cooperation. So things that don't exist can be useful but that doesn't mean they exist outside of the human imagination.
Not saying I disagree with you, but one could look at it this way: While it’s true that imagining something doesn’t prove its existence, the concept of evidence itself is not always straightforward, especially in domains where empirical verification is challenging. In many cases, we operate within a framework of inference and probability rather than absolute proof. For example, in theoretical physics or certain branches of philosophy, entities or concepts are often “counted in” based on indirect evidence or the coherence they bring to a broader theory, even if direct evidence is not yet available. Moreover, the distinction between existence within the human imagination and external reality might be more complex. Concepts like justice, numbers, and human rights, though they may originate in human thought, have real-world consequences and effects, often influencing behavior and shaping societies in ways that are tangible and measurable. This blurs the line between imagination and reality, suggesting that what is “imaginary” might still have a form of existence that, while different from physical existence, is nonetheless significant. Finally, dismissing something solely because it lacks convincing evidence at a particular moment in time can overlook the provisional nature of knowledge. What we can or cannot “count in” often changes as new evidence emerges, so maintaining a level of openness to possibilities-even those that currently seem speculative-can be a rational stance in the pursuit of knowledge.
@@HolyMoly2300 thanks For your reply. Lots to think about. I would agree that The concept of evidence is not always straightforward, especially in areas where empirical verification is challenging. That's true but in a lot of cases it is straightforward. In the case of anecdotal evidence or assertions that are purely imaginary or untestable in principle there is room for much skepticism. I also agree that The distinction between existence within the human imagination and external reality is complex. I think I did say that purely imaginary things like human rights are very useful and do cause people to behave in ways in the real world. That doesn't mean that human rights exist independent of our imagination. I don't necessarily dismiss something solely because at lacks Convincing evidence at a particular moment. I do suspend belief until the evidence catches up with the imagination. If the something is useful then it's worth discussing. Its usefulness will have to be established. I also agree that being open to possibilities can be a good thing. As the saying goes you don't want to be so open that your brain falls out. There's also the question of how do you determine what's possible?
If ‘aliens’ need a human intermediary to navigate a wholesale realisation I can’t think of anybody more intellectually equipped to deal with it than Jeffrey
It's disappointing when someone intentionally doesn't seek out truth or even knowingly self-deceives themselves somehow just to avoid conflict and promote dialogue. He should be able to think rationally for himself while still allowing people to talk. Of course mind is a product of the brain. They are not both equal products dividing out of some supersedent.
We have the free will to choose different thoughts and take different actions. Through meditation, we can control our thoughts and even reach a state of thoughtless awareness. It is this free will that has allowed human beings to evolve from their primate ancestors.
Great interview Michael, but this guy seems too much like Jordan Peterson where he is trying to give credence to things that already have better explanations.
Um, not exactly. The spirit is a fractal of the entirety of the soul incarnated into a human body to have a human experience. That spirit is linked (a part of the soul) therefore the energy of the experiences reach the soul and become soul memories. The soul/higher self energy cannot fit in a human body. Even the spirit has to squeeze in. Try listening to near death experiencers describe coming back into their bodies to take this in a bit more deeply. It’s very fascinating.
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Loved how respectful this conversation was. We don't need to agree but we need to be civil and attentive to the other persons views. Nobody here is trying to convert the other person or prove them wrong. Masterclass
I love Dr Kripal. Thanks for the conversation.
Advanced users, begin at 5:40, skip the introduction
I'm impressed This is my second interview I've seen you do and I have to say I love it! I usually don't listen to skeptics but you've outdone yourself, well done..
I had a vivid, detailed and memorable dream about meeting Oliver Reed who's final words to me was "I'm very tired, so if you want my life advice, you better be quick, because once I lie down and shut my eyes, don't even think about trying to wake me up"
24 hours later, on the evening news , I learned of his death..
I was flabbergasted
Dreams and memory are very malleable. VERY.
@gps9715 well, on the Sunday morning I related the dream to my partner, as was my habit at the time .... and wasn't until the early evening news that we learned of his passing during the Saturday night as we slept, she can corroborate and we were both in disbelief ... maybe just pure coincidence.... but the events happened in that order... I'm a massive skeptic, debunker of the paranormal and pseudoscience...but I'm not mistaken, have no reason to lie and have no explanation ...
@@clungebucket23 Hmm, interesting. Especially since you are a skeptic like myself and I would assume most here.
I don't know what to make of it, but I've never had anything mystical or whatever you want to call it happen to me so....that's probably why I said what I said.
@gps9715 I'll spare you the full transcript which I forwarded to The Pub in Valetta and Ken Russell shortly afterwards.
But I'll share two stunning dream details ;
The first of which is that his face was red and sweaty and he appeared to be wearing only a white sheet.
It wasn't until I saw him in his last film ,Gladiator did I see him in a white Toga . The film was ,unbeknownst to me, being shot partly in Malta, he died during filming and I think it was the first time that they used digital rendering to insert him into his last few scenes .
The second detail was that the beginning of the dream involved me Gladiator sword fighting with a close friend of mine ... when Ollie turned up to admonish me for dicking around immediately so he could impart some life advice, that we'd previously arranged to meet and I'd forgotten in the heat of play with my friend, which is when Ollie said that he was tired , I better hurry up otherwise I was warned not to wake him up and break our agreement.
The detail being, is that I was sword fighting with spirit levels....a detail of which I didn't pay much attention to( as use these in my line of work) until many weeks later when relating to a group of friends until one of them stopped me and pointed out; .."spirit level?... as in 'on the the spirit level'..."???
Suffice to say our collective minds were utterly blown.
Thanks for having this guest. Occasional trips into the magic kingdom are a break from reality.
Vaughan, do you believe in the magical fantasy of Abiogenesis?
@@steveflorida5849
I'm unfamiliar with your fantasy, but I hope you enjoyed it.
@@steveflorida5849It would do you a lot a good to get educated, I highly recommend it.
what a beautifully thought provoking conversation!
I think we have a dogmatic skeptic and an open minded skeptic talking respectfully to each other and it was great though i would love to have gotten a third speaker like grant cameron or richard dolan who are full blown believers and scholars to weigh in all in all solid discussion
Skeptics by definition - are those who doubt. Not believe or disbelief. Like being open to the possibility. However, those who disbelief are known as, 'PsuedoSkeptics'.
There are thousands reports of bigfoot (or ghosts, or aliens for that matter) and when it's about precog dreams or oobe, rules are different? We know better than that.
Anyhow this is interesting chat, as always, thank you guys
It is the timing of the meaning. Michael Shermer. Your interviews are meaningful every time!
I think the magical thinking is very strong with this guest.
Time travel in the physical realm is not possible, regardless of what the equations might suggest. We can only imagine the past and the future.
We all travel through time at a rate of one second per second, there doesn't seem to be any way around that
Consider "a stasis bubble", no atom of molecule decay/change can happen with it. Person inside it stops experiencing time, sort of travels to the future.
@@TomiTapio Time flows regardless of whether atoms decay or undergo change.
Are you a person ho trust math
Just because you can't count something out doesn't mean that you can count it in! Counting something in means you have convincing evidence that it exists.
Just because you can imagine that something exists doesn't mean that it exists. If all you've got is imagination that's not good enough. The ability to imagine that something exists is neither necessary nor sufficient for something to actually exist.
Having said that imaginary concepts like justice, numbers, human rights are useful in regulating human affairs particularly cooperation. So things that don't exist can be useful but that doesn't mean they exist outside of the human imagination.
Not saying I disagree with you, but one could look at it this way: While it’s true that imagining something doesn’t prove its existence, the concept of evidence itself is not always straightforward, especially in domains where empirical verification is challenging. In many cases, we operate within a framework of inference and probability rather than absolute proof. For example, in theoretical physics or certain branches of philosophy, entities or concepts are often “counted in” based on indirect evidence or the coherence they bring to a broader theory, even if direct evidence is not yet available.
Moreover, the distinction between existence within the human imagination and external reality might be more complex. Concepts like justice, numbers, and human rights, though they may originate in human thought, have real-world consequences and effects, often influencing behavior and shaping societies in ways that are tangible and measurable. This blurs the line between imagination and reality, suggesting that what is “imaginary” might still have a form of existence that, while different from physical existence, is nonetheless significant.
Finally, dismissing something solely because it lacks convincing evidence at a particular moment in time can overlook the provisional nature of knowledge. What we can or cannot “count in” often changes as new evidence emerges, so maintaining a level of openness to possibilities-even those that currently seem speculative-can be a rational stance in the pursuit of knowledge.
@@HolyMoly2300 thanks For your reply. Lots to think about.
I would agree that The concept of evidence is not always straightforward, especially in areas where empirical verification is challenging. That's true but in a lot of cases it is straightforward. In the case of anecdotal evidence or assertions that are purely imaginary or untestable in principle there is room for much skepticism.
I also agree that The distinction between existence within the human imagination and external reality is complex. I think I did say that purely imaginary things like human rights are very useful and do cause people to behave in ways in the real world. That doesn't mean that human rights exist independent of our imagination.
I don't necessarily dismiss something solely because at lacks Convincing evidence at a particular moment. I do suspend belief until the evidence catches up with the imagination. If the something is useful then it's worth discussing. Its usefulness will have to be established.
I also agree that being open to possibilities can be a good thing. As the saying goes you don't want to be so open that your brain falls out. There's also the question of how do you determine what's possible?
@@jjjccc728All excellent points.
20:00 brain's "is a tiger/enemyhuman there?" Detection circuit misfire
Great !❤🎉
If ‘aliens’ need a human intermediary to navigate a wholesale realisation I can’t think of anybody more intellectually equipped to deal with it than Jeffrey
Consciousness is like the string theory,lots of papers and books published but no substance to it.
Dr Nasir Fazal gold medalist Cambridge USA
It's disappointing when someone intentionally doesn't seek out truth or even knowingly self-deceives themselves somehow just to avoid conflict and promote dialogue. He should be able to think rationally for himself while still allowing people to talk. Of course mind is a product of the brain. They are not both equal products dividing out of some supersedent.
What Neuron decides what is Truth and what is not true?
Personality uses Mind, where is personality?
"Of course mind is a product of the brain". Really? Why? Oh yeah, the famous correlations mind-brain, which can be interpreted in other ways
So no free will in block theory, or I got it wrong? 😢
Interesting perspective....
A perspective
Y'ALL😂, thanks for the RANDOM CAPITALIZATION in your high school rant.
Saved for later, sounds intriguing
We have the free will to choose different thoughts and take different actions. Through meditation, we can control our thoughts and even reach a state of thoughtless awareness. It is this free will that has allowed human beings to evolve from their primate ancestors.
Religious hallusination!
Didnt expect this content from Micheal. Weird.
Great interview Michael, but this guy seems too much like Jordan Peterson where he is trying to give credence to things that already have better explanations.
At least his voice isnt hella irritating like Peterson
It’s more complicated than that, I’m above it. The Simpsons are the revelation and Visio’s of many authors hiding behind the stories.🙄
Our individual consciousness consists of both soul and spirit. The soul experiences feelings, while the spirit perceives things.
Um, not exactly. The spirit is a fractal of the entirety of the soul incarnated into a human body to have a human experience. That spirit is linked (a part of the soul) therefore the energy of the experiences reach the soul and become soul memories. The soul/higher self energy cannot fit in a human body. Even the spirit has to squeeze in. Try listening to near death experiencers describe coming back into their bodies to take this in a bit more deeply. It’s very fascinating.
A belief about beleifs. I'm done.
.
Time travel is maybe ok but questioning whether Churchill was a good guy is verboten?
I have not watched enough hear a about if Churchill was a good guy or person.
He needs to lay off the peyote
My life.