part of what holds back people's enjoyment of this fight that i don't think is acknowledged enough is either flaws in their mindset and understanding of the fight or flaws in their teammates' mindset and understanding. i don't think this fight is the best in the whole game, but i think it's absolutely overhated and misunderstood. common things i've noticed: - people not acknowledging the capabilities of rewards and/or being overly conservative with them - people can be inefficient and/or overly conservative with their gags - they don't pay enough attention to status effects and don't give enough consideration of other things such as witch hunter's current damage reduction when making decisions. this leads to bad decisions such as directly attacking the witch hunter on turn 1 and then clearing the mobs on turn 2 when doing the opposite is straight up better - don't communicate and agree to the same decisions enough and often end up making decisions with split goals and making the fight go worse than it needed to. not just a thing with this fight and neither are the previous three points but is nonetheless a thing in this fight - giving the 11 exe cat way too much kill priority over other cogs that deal more damage and that are easier to kill - they use trap on the 11 exe cat - they don't take enough advantage of the bewitched damage bonus - way too scared of mob mentality so they always clear on mob turns - people thinking too linearly, not thinking ahead enough, and oversimplifying the fight. they don't realize the fight is more dynamic and open ended in terms of both macro and micro decisions than they give it credit for. they think that because mob mentality is cyclical, the players' responses to it also have to be cyclical and inflexible. - spend too many turns on clearing mobs, thinking that witch hunter's damage reduction has to be incredibly low for it to be worth starting to focus him down when it doesn't need to be, which then can make the fight take longer than it needed to be - not giving enough importance to accuracy buffs/high consistency moves despite knowing from prior experience that gags missing multiple times can spell disaster in this fight. this does not mean drop is bad
I'd love to try doing Witch Hunter in news way that isnt clearing cogs every other turn, but I havent found the right group for it. I think this fight is really cool but yeah people have simplified it very much
Great video! Personally, Witch Hunter is my favorite manager in Corporate Clash for a few reasons. First, his character is unique among the new hires and heroes managers in that he despises toons and is actively antagonistic towards them, which is a mentality we don't actually see often in the managers aside from maybe Plutocrat and Treekiller. Even still, that aspect of Witch Hunter's character is more pronounced than in other managers. It especially helps that he comes right after Rainmaker, who is almost the polar opposite to Witch Hunter in terms of their opinions towards toons. Additionally, I also really like the music, like what you said in the video. Personally, I like that the differences between the different versions of his theme is more subtle, which mirrors how the difficulty of the fight subtlety increases as the mob grows. When I'm fighting Witch Hunter, the increasing intensity of the music helps to subconsciously portray the feeling that the toons are seriously outnumbered and fight is becoming overwhelming. I also really like the fight mechanically. While his cheats are rather simple and predictable, that opens many opportunities for different strategies to shine. You can focus the mob to lower his damage resistance and prevent his cheats from becoming more powerful, or you could proactively use unites to take more damage while using the benefit of bewitched to deal more damage. Also, every gag feels like it has a good use in the Witch Hunter fight, which isn't the case for some of the later fights. I think a big reason why Witch Hunter wasn't very well liked early on is because of the many balance changes that were made to his fight soon after 1.3 released (remember guaranteed 12.exe advocates and mob mentality every turn?). The current state of the fight is really fun though. Okay, I swear I didn't mean to write an entire essay. Once again, great video! Hope to see more like this in the future!
As someone who has done this boss in every iteration with over 400 clears, the first thing that will literally make this boss 20 minutes faster for everyone is to stop trapping the cat, I have been saying it since the second week this boss came out, he is extremely intricate for 3rd Kudos boss you fight and a MAJOR reason why people dislike him is because they fall into doing the wrong strat, but since they win still after 40 minutes they call it boring because everyone thinks trapping the cat is the best thing to do, when in reality it is actually actively detrimental. I can admit his cheats aren't explained as simply as they should and many people are just confused, but the things like WoTP and Bewitchment, once they are understood you can do this boss in 8 turns (under 10 minutes). Now I'll also say it is NOT easy to learn, nor is his fight basic, that is a massive downplay of this boss and something people still say when they dislike this boss, which once you say that you really just admit you dont really know the mechanics, even to this day he is one of maybe the 2 bosses in this game still getting viable new strats because there is so much you can do
(Sounded a bit argumentative btw, great video and you have the general communities POV which is totally understandable, if you'd ever wanna chat about Witch I'd love to talk to you about him)
I think they said Witch Hunter was the first boss they added for the update. I do think the environment is a bit basic, the most low-poly environment in all manager environments and the tower doesn't have merlons :(
A solid video, Witch Hunter is up there as one of my favourite 3 managers, and I think it's due to the fact his fight is super free form in how you can approach it. There are so many different strategies and with how the fight gradually ramps and the specific cogs which can enter into the fray the battle is constantly evolving and never feels set in stone. Compared to a fight like Multislacker (my personal least favourite fight), which is incredibly red-light-green-light, Witch always having the choice between taking out the mob or going for Prester it's just a lot of fun and makes it feel actually tense. Either way great stuff, hope you have a pleasant day and keep up the great work :)
In that case, it's worth pointing out that Corporate Clash uses a different UI and some of the cogs and gags, including this boss are custom-made. I've never played it myself but judging by this video it seems to change a lot of the core game. Even if the fundamentals of combat system are mostly the same.
i have headphones rn and listening to the sample of the music i can see why people don't notice... the 2nd phase only adds bass instruments? the main chords of the track are already fully laid out on the 1st phase and even the 3rd phase barely expands on this. ideally, the 1st phase should lay out all the bass, while the 2nd and 3rd phases should introduce multiple different parts for instruments that lay on top of each other, giving the track an orchestral feel. i don't know shit about music theory myself either but i think that's the issue you're trying to get at
I definitely do think Witch Hunter isn't "bad" mechanic wise, I do like the design... MY ISSUE IS THAT IT TAKES TOO LONG. The 40% defense and 20% bewitched was the one thing I found perfectly balanced, now since he starts at 50, it takes way longer to kill him than it needs to take.
Gread vid! I personally like the fight but it does feel a bit repetitive. I've been experimenting with clearing cogs for a few rounds in the beginning to bring down his defense to mix things up. I hope if the clash team comes back to this fight, they make the different mob sizes have more dramatic and interesting effects to help spice it up!
I like WH decently well, not my favorite for sure, but also not my least favorite. What hurts this fight I feel is the simple rigidity of how you are supposed to approach it, not allowing much creative room to fight with. The fight also has no randomness in it (cheat wise), since everything is on a rigid turn cycle, there is nothing to really throw a wrench in your plan, apart from high level cogs or gags missing. I also notice this is the only kudos without a real health based cheat, apart from a tad more damage.
Here I thought it was because of what the Witch Hunter did to the Rainmaker, and him constantly plotting to usurp the C.L.O. and the Litigation Team lol
Wait, what did Prester do to Misty? I get he has status-envy of Diane getting the C.L.O. position a n d a defense force with the Litigation Team, and he seems to also feud with Holly (the "ludibrious skeleton"/Gatekeeper- could be since she's also technically a higher rank by being a BoardBot hire), but Rainmaker/Misty? Where?
This is a really cool-looking fight imo. As someone that played corporate clash really casually, this fight was horrible for me. I noticed that being set back several turns is much more impactful (especially in a row) than the other boss fights. You just can't afford to miss. His fight was so bad that it genuinely played a role (albeit minor) in my decision to stop playing ttcc altogether. If that kudos fight was bad, who was to say the future ones wouldn't be? Even after watching attempt and/or them, those fights looked just beyond stressful and lengthy. I did not want to be a part of that. Excellent video man! You brought up some fantastic points. Personally, I don't resonate with the rainmaker point. I did not care about the quality of the cutscenes or any of that stuff. However, saying that this fight doesn't leave you with much upon completion is something I can absolutely agree with.
Idk man…u can finish the fight in like 12 turns even with killing the cogs on the mob mentality round. I think personally the fight is just frustrating if gags miss or if your fellow toons do not cooperate with a strategy 😅😂
It's because the Clash Community can't handle real, honest difficulty without the need of excessive nonsense. Now don't get me wrong, by no means is the fight perfect, but out of all the SIXTEEN bosses added in 1.3, only a small handful actually have real difficulty, without being overly long or nonsensical. The Witch Hunter and Plutocrat are two of them, and it's worth noting they lack death animations completely, implying they were the last to be finished. And they're the top two in terms of true difficulty without an annoying or unfair gimmick. In the Witch Hunter's case, you'll notice most of the cogs who spawn in this fight are Lawbots, including specialists such as Advocates. With the higher health of the executive Advocates, Toons can't rely on their usual AOE strats as much and will need to think outside the box on how to take out all the minions. So the Witch Hunter utilizes specialists in a pretty good way. The Mob mechanic is also very unique and much like the Boiler in TTR, makes the minions an actual threat. Unlike other managers you can't just brush off the minions or completely ignore them due to their below average damage. Now imagine an executive Barrister being able to attack twice. That is a deadly combination. Witch Hunter is also one of few managers in which contentsync actually works well for him, without making him unnecessarily tedious. You can't use sues or fires to get rid of or cheese the minions. You can still cheese it with IOUs, but that's a problem with IOUs, rather than this fight itself. While contentsync still has yet to be optional as the Clash team promised, Witch Hunter's works well where you are less likely to cheese the fight and his HP doesn't make him stall out for too long, like certain other fights. The average Witch Hunter fight takes about 20 minutes. Roughly the same as the Plutocrat. This is the length most manager fights should strive to be. (with a few exceptions.) Too many managers either have way too much health or are able to heal/stall for damage constantly making the fight go on for way too long, the Litigation Team making sure OCLOs take an hour, Chainsaw Consultant taking an hour on average, and Pacesetter, a fight built around getting faster and faster, a fight about speed taking an hour and a half disguised as 20 minutes. Witch Hunter does it in a way that isn't too nonsensical and overwhelming. While I can understand the story of the fight being underwhelming, they completely butchered the ending and made it boring, I'm personally not as bothered. The Rainmaker fight tries too hard to make you feel sympathetic, which normally isn't such a bad thing as it's okay to have someone on the enemy side feel less evil, but at the same time, she looks like a clown and is hard to take seriously. On top of that, for a fight you can "spare" her, there's like no downside to not sparing her, she just flies away unharmed, and it's even harder to show sympathy because of this, she still tries to fight you the entire time by the way. At least her actual fight is good, mechanic wise. It's like a mini-plutocrat fight. Overall, I feel the Witch Hunter is a pretty good fight and is almost like a reincarnation of the Witness Stand-In, (who was denounced from the canon, thanks Clash.) He's a Lawbot, he's in charge of his own group, and he had everything taken away from him. (his underling from S.C.R.E.W. LLC. outranked him, if that's even still canon) I feel he is genuinely over hated and it's a darn shame. Again, the fight isn't perfect, but it still does a very good job for what it does. I just wish more fights in the actual game were like this.
I like witch hunter but by far it’s the least good of the main 8 guys. It’s not over hated It’s just boring he doesn’t have any progression in his fight like misty or prethinker before him. It’s very rudimentary and I kinda like that a lot. But it would’ve helped if there was a round or a threshold where he would just pawn a couple of mob influencers or gaslighters. Rather than just always having an advocate. The advocate is very boring by itself. But an extra cog should be there to help influence the mob maybe spawn him every few rounds so you’re aware of him. And if you take him out you get bonus damage on your gags. That way it’ll feel more like a positive for not just blitzing witch and adding more strategy to the fight. And this isn’t to say there’s one way to go about fighting him or anything. I just would like there to be more threats in the battle. Especially stuff that challenges your decisions every turn
part of what holds back people's enjoyment of this fight that i don't think is acknowledged enough is either flaws in their mindset and understanding of the fight or flaws in their teammates' mindset and understanding. i don't think this fight is the best in the whole game, but i think it's absolutely overhated and misunderstood.
common things i've noticed:
- people not acknowledging the capabilities of rewards and/or being overly conservative with them
- people can be inefficient and/or overly conservative with their gags
- they don't pay enough attention to status effects and don't give enough consideration of other things such as witch hunter's current damage reduction when making decisions. this leads to bad decisions such as directly attacking the witch hunter on turn 1 and then clearing the mobs on turn 2 when doing the opposite is straight up better
- don't communicate and agree to the same decisions enough and often end up making decisions with split goals and making the fight go worse than it needed to. not just a thing with this fight and neither are the previous three points but is nonetheless a thing in this fight
- giving the 11 exe cat way too much kill priority over other cogs that deal more damage and that are easier to kill
- they use trap on the 11 exe cat
- they don't take enough advantage of the bewitched damage bonus
- way too scared of mob mentality so they always clear on mob turns
- people thinking too linearly, not thinking ahead enough, and oversimplifying the fight. they don't realize the fight is more dynamic and open ended in terms of both macro and micro decisions than they give it credit for. they think that because mob mentality is cyclical, the players' responses to it also have to be cyclical and inflexible.
- spend too many turns on clearing mobs, thinking that witch hunter's damage reduction has to be incredibly low for it to be worth starting to focus him down when it doesn't need to be, which then can make the fight take longer than it needed to be
- not giving enough importance to accuracy buffs/high consistency moves despite knowing from prior experience that gags missing multiple times can spell disaster in this fight. this does not mean drop is bad
I'd love to try doing Witch Hunter in news way that isnt clearing cogs every other turn, but I havent found the right group for it. I think this fight is really cool but yeah people have simplified it very much
Great video! Personally, Witch Hunter is my favorite manager in Corporate Clash for a few reasons.
First, his character is unique among the new hires and heroes managers in that he despises toons and is actively antagonistic towards them, which is a mentality we don't actually see often in the managers aside from maybe Plutocrat and Treekiller. Even still, that aspect of Witch Hunter's character is more pronounced than in other managers. It especially helps that he comes right after Rainmaker, who is almost the polar opposite to Witch Hunter in terms of their opinions towards toons.
Additionally, I also really like the music, like what you said in the video. Personally, I like that the differences between the different versions of his theme is more subtle, which mirrors how the difficulty of the fight subtlety increases as the mob grows. When I'm fighting Witch Hunter, the increasing intensity of the music helps to subconsciously portray the feeling that the toons are seriously outnumbered and fight is becoming overwhelming.
I also really like the fight mechanically. While his cheats are rather simple and predictable, that opens many opportunities for different strategies to shine. You can focus the mob to lower his damage resistance and prevent his cheats from becoming more powerful, or you could proactively use unites to take more damage while using the benefit of bewitched to deal more damage. Also, every gag feels like it has a good use in the Witch Hunter fight, which isn't the case for some of the later fights.
I think a big reason why Witch Hunter wasn't very well liked early on is because of the many balance changes that were made to his fight soon after 1.3 released (remember guaranteed 12.exe advocates and mob mentality every turn?). The current state of the fight is really fun though.
Okay, I swear I didn't mean to write an entire essay. Once again, great video! Hope to see more like this in the future!
Me to! He was cool, he reminds me ado but he's cool.
As someone who has done this boss in every iteration with over 400 clears, the first thing that will literally make this boss 20 minutes faster for everyone is to stop trapping the cat, I have been saying it since the second week this boss came out, he is extremely intricate for 3rd Kudos boss you fight and a MAJOR reason why people dislike him is because they fall into doing the wrong strat, but since they win still after 40 minutes they call it boring because everyone thinks trapping the cat is the best thing to do, when in reality it is actually actively detrimental. I can admit his cheats aren't explained as simply as they should and many people are just confused, but the things like WoTP and Bewitchment, once they are understood you can do this boss in 8 turns (under 10 minutes). Now I'll also say it is NOT easy to learn, nor is his fight basic, that is a massive downplay of this boss and something people still say when they dislike this boss, which once you say that you really just admit you dont really know the mechanics, even to this day he is one of maybe the 2 bosses in this game still getting viable new strats because there is so much you can do
(Sounded a bit argumentative btw, great video and you have the general communities POV which is totally understandable, if you'd ever wanna chat about Witch I'd love to talk to you about him)
i think plutocrat is a obv step up from witch hunter, with the whole freeze mechanic and then cogs freeze exploding like whaaa
I think they said Witch Hunter was the first boss they added for the update.
I do think the environment is a bit basic, the most low-poly environment in all manager environments and the tower doesn't have merlons :(
A solid video, Witch Hunter is up there as one of my favourite 3 managers, and I think it's due to the fact his fight is super free form in how you can approach it. There are so many different strategies and with how the fight gradually ramps and the specific cogs which can enter into the fray the battle is constantly evolving and never feels set in stone.
Compared to a fight like Multislacker (my personal least favourite fight), which is incredibly red-light-green-light, Witch always having the choice between taking out the mob or going for Prester it's just a lot of fun and makes it feel actually tense.
Either way great stuff, hope you have a pleasant day and keep up the great work :)
Truth be told I've never actually seen Toon Town gameplay before. I'm not sure what made me decide to watch this but I enjoyed the breakdown!
In that case, it's worth pointing out that Corporate Clash uses a different UI and some of the cogs and gags, including this boss are custom-made. I've never played it myself but judging by this video it seems to change a lot of the core game. Even if the fundamentals of combat system are mostly the same.
i have headphones rn and listening to the sample of the music i can see why people don't notice... the 2nd phase only adds bass instruments? the main chords of the track are already fully laid out on the 1st phase and even the 3rd phase barely expands on this. ideally, the 1st phase should lay out all the bass, while the 2nd and 3rd phases should introduce multiple different parts for instruments that lay on top of each other, giving the track an orchestral feel. i don't know shit about music theory myself either but i think that's the issue you're trying to get at
Things people forget is witch hunter is the THIRD boss type, so he's not going to be super hard.
I definitely do think Witch Hunter isn't "bad" mechanic wise, I do like the design... MY ISSUE IS THAT IT TAKES TOO LONG. The 40% defense and 20% bewitched was the one thing I found perfectly balanced, now since he starts at 50, it takes way longer to kill him than it needs to take.
This is interesting video. Witch hunter is one of my favorites even a good boss theme and battle. I mean the amount of cogs is intense
Gread vid! I personally like the fight but it does feel a bit repetitive. I've been experimenting with clearing cogs for a few rounds in the beginning to bring down his defense to mix things up. I hope if the clash team comes back to this fight, they make the different mob sizes have more dramatic and interesting effects to help spice it up!
I like WH decently well, not my favorite for sure, but also not my least favorite.
What hurts this fight I feel is the simple rigidity of how you are supposed to approach it, not allowing much creative room to fight with. The fight also has no randomness in it (cheat wise), since everything is on a rigid turn cycle, there is nothing to really throw a wrench in your plan, apart from high level cogs or gags missing. I also notice this is the only kudos without a real health based cheat, apart from a tad more damage.
Here I thought it was because of what the Witch Hunter did to the Rainmaker, and him constantly plotting to usurp the C.L.O. and the Litigation Team lol
Wait, what did Prester do to Misty?
I get he has status-envy of Diane getting the C.L.O. position a n d a defense force with the Litigation Team, and he seems to also feud with Holly (the "ludibrious skeleton"/Gatekeeper- could be since she's also technically a higher rank by being a BoardBot hire), but Rainmaker/Misty? Where?
This is a really cool-looking fight imo. As someone that played corporate clash really casually, this fight was horrible for me. I noticed that being set back several turns is much more impactful (especially in a row) than the other boss fights. You just can't afford to miss. His fight was so bad that it genuinely played a role (albeit minor) in my decision to stop playing ttcc altogether. If that kudos fight was bad, who was to say the future ones wouldn't be? Even after watching attempt and/or them, those fights looked just beyond stressful and lengthy. I did not want to be a part of that. Excellent video man! You brought up some fantastic points. Personally, I don't resonate with the rainmaker point. I did not care about the quality of the cutscenes or any of that stuff. However, saying that this fight doesn't leave you with much upon completion is something I can absolutely agree with.
Because he's Ye Olde Starscream and he never shuts up about Cyger's bureaucracy.
Witch Hunter is my favorite Cog, no doubt about it. He's practically the Cog every Cog should strive to be.
What will be in 1.9?
Idk man…u can finish the fight in like 12 turns even with killing the cogs on the mob mentality round. I think personally the fight is just frustrating if gags miss or if your fellow toons do not cooperate with a strategy 😅😂
random question but what hud is that? I've tired to find it and I can't, but I would love to have a purple color scheme like that.
Nightlife remastered, theres a version where its only the HUD. You can find it here contentpacks.net/packs_ttcc.html
It's because the Clash Community can't handle real, honest difficulty without the need of excessive nonsense.
Now don't get me wrong, by no means is the fight perfect, but out of all the SIXTEEN bosses added in 1.3, only a small handful actually have real difficulty, without being overly long or nonsensical. The Witch Hunter and Plutocrat are two of them, and it's worth noting they lack death animations completely, implying they were the last to be finished. And they're the top two in terms of true difficulty without an annoying or unfair gimmick.
In the Witch Hunter's case, you'll notice most of the cogs who spawn in this fight are Lawbots, including specialists such as Advocates. With the higher health of the executive Advocates, Toons can't rely on their usual AOE strats as much and will need to think outside the box on how to take out all the minions. So the Witch Hunter utilizes specialists in a pretty good way.
The Mob mechanic is also very unique and much like the Boiler in TTR, makes the minions an actual threat. Unlike other managers you can't just brush off the minions or completely ignore them due to their below average damage. Now imagine an executive Barrister being able to attack twice. That is a deadly combination. Witch Hunter is also one of few managers in which contentsync actually works well for him, without making him unnecessarily tedious. You can't use sues or fires to get rid of or cheese the minions. You can still cheese it with IOUs, but that's a problem with IOUs, rather than this fight itself. While contentsync still has yet to be optional as the Clash team promised, Witch Hunter's works well where you are less likely to cheese the fight and his HP doesn't make him stall out for too long, like certain other fights.
The average Witch Hunter fight takes about 20 minutes. Roughly the same as the Plutocrat. This is the length most manager fights should strive to be. (with a few exceptions.) Too many managers either have way too much health or are able to heal/stall for damage constantly making the fight go on for way too long, the Litigation Team making sure OCLOs take an hour, Chainsaw Consultant taking an hour on average, and Pacesetter, a fight built around getting faster and faster, a fight about speed taking an hour and a half disguised as 20 minutes. Witch Hunter does it in a way that isn't too nonsensical and overwhelming.
While I can understand the story of the fight being underwhelming, they completely butchered the ending and made it boring, I'm personally not as bothered. The Rainmaker fight tries too hard to make you feel sympathetic, which normally isn't such a bad thing as it's okay to have someone on the enemy side feel less evil, but at the same time, she looks like a clown and is hard to take seriously. On top of that, for a fight you can "spare" her, there's like no downside to not sparing her, she just flies away unharmed, and it's even harder to show sympathy because of this, she still tries to fight you the entire time by the way. At least her actual fight is good, mechanic wise. It's like a mini-plutocrat fight.
Overall, I feel the Witch Hunter is a pretty good fight and is almost like a reincarnation of the Witness Stand-In, (who was denounced from the canon, thanks Clash.) He's a Lawbot, he's in charge of his own group, and he had everything taken away from him. (his underling from S.C.R.E.W. LLC. outranked him, if that's even still canon) I feel he is genuinely over hated and it's a darn shame. Again, the fight isn't perfect, but it still does a very good job for what it does. I just wish more fights in the actual game were like this.
it's because he's hot
i haye witchuntrr
I like witch hunter but by far it’s the least good of the main 8 guys. It’s not over hated
It’s just boring he doesn’t have any progression in his fight like misty or prethinker before him.
It’s very rudimentary and I kinda like that a lot. But it would’ve helped if there was a round or a threshold where he would just pawn a couple of mob influencers or gaslighters. Rather than just always having an advocate.
The advocate is very boring by itself.
But an extra cog should be there to help influence the mob maybe spawn him every few rounds so you’re aware of him. And if you take him out you get bonus damage on your gags.
That way it’ll feel more like a positive for not just blitzing witch and adding more strategy to the fight.
And this isn’t to say there’s one way to go about fighting him or anything. I just would like there to be more threats in the battle. Especially stuff that challenges your decisions every turn