ya its sad this studio who made this went under tho. imagi. thanks for this. it was a worthy TMNT movie. also this fight is legendary. the buried feelings of both brothers over the years have surfaced and are spoken. resulting in this fight. proving once and for ALL why leo is the leader and splinters choosen son.
Graphics looking better than what so studios can put out today. THIS FIGHT WAS SICK THIS IS WHAT WE NEED MAN. What happen to these Drama Cartoons man. Gonna watch stuff like Teen Titans GO RIP Cartoons OG😢!!!
@@CantRead1Yeah it's like three diffrent plots being mashed togather. But let's give them credit flows better than other movies like Spiderman 3 and amazing 2! Isn't it f.r.?
@@jasond721 it's more an attitude of a boss than a leader. Leader thinks of himself as equal to his bros, not better. I also agree with Raph. Someone had to take care of the city, while the same lone hero is treated like crap for keeping city intact in solo instead of doing it in four. Like what would Leo suggest, let criminals get away?
@@TailsDollOS fact still remains, Leo is better. It wasn't raph that beat splinter in 03' and got a hit on him in 012'. It wasn't raph that beat shedder in 03' and got a hit on him in 90'. It wasn't raph beating all his bros at once in 03'. Since when raph become Leo 🤔 Since when raph become better 🙄 In terms of attitude & strategy, raph is the bad azz / wolverine of the group, but he not better than Leo nor can he beat Leo.
it was Raph who beat the shit out of Karai when leo lost to her in '03, it was Raph that beat the shit out of Leo when he was angry at him in '03 don't remeber the context, Raph many times showed that he is not as mature as Leo, but strong as hell too
I can’t believe Nolan North voiced Raphael. Considering he does goofy characters like Richthofen from COD and the Penguin from the arkham series it’s insane seeing him do this New York Accented Raphael, what an amazing voice actor
That scream at 6:34 will forever and always give me chills. And it was very clear Leo held back in the second round. He wasnt fighting as aggressive and his face in the power clash said it all too
@@haylongwang3002 it's not biased. He didn't know it was raph, he sat his ass down with little effort. And even his Expression shows he's not even close to into the fight as much as raph is
@@ZarrarAAli Yes when he fought raph in hand to hand combat then he won, cus thats not their main weapons or the combat the yare best at. So that dont mean shit. And hiis expression was that of gritted teeth and trying his hardest. Even though he dont looks as savage as Raph so is that due to their personalities, nothing else. You got even proven in concept of this fight all outcomes where Raph winning, which he did regardless. You are just biased af man
Shame on the people who hated this movie! For me, this movie is one of my personal favorites in the franchise. I remember the animation being so mesmerizing and the voice-acting for the Ninja Turtles themselves are just so incredible. James Arnold Taylor (Ratchet from “Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart) as Leonardo, Nolan North (Nathan Drake from the “Uncharted” games.) as Raphael, Mikey Kelly as Michelangelo and Mitchel Whitfield as Donatello. Top-notch casting in my opinion! So yeah, I don’t care what the haters say about this movie, I love this film!
I love how there’s always a rivalry between Ralph and Leo. This was probably the best fight they’ve done and the story behind it makes it emotional to watch. I hope they do something like this in the future
It really emphasises their traits, Leo cares for Raph, he’s looking out for him and Raph is quick to fight and it proved what Leo was saying was right, Raph is too quick to anger and too impatient, Leo was messing up the “vigilante” until he learned their identity, you can tell he starts holding back but meanwhile Raph takes the fight too far he goes all out as always, it shows why Leo is the leader, he may not always know what’s best for everyone but he tries to protect his family no matter what while Raphs anger led to him attacking Leo and running away when he realised Leo was completely right
@@miragemain105Leo may have been seeming like a hypocrite for taking off, but he has always been disciplined and dedicated to his craft and training, hence why he did along with Splinter’s blessing to do so, and it felt easy since Shredder was gone, but he didn't see how it might affect the others especially given in spite of how much Raph butts heads with Leo, he loves him in spite of his jealousy at Leo as well. Particularly Raph since he was out of the loop.
As you get older, you realize *both* are right in their arguments. Raph is mad at Leo because he was gone longer than he was supposed to be, Leo was more concerned with disappointing Splinter rather than being there for his little brothers. But at the same time Leo is right in that Raph's hotheaded attitude was why he wasn't ready to go alone. At 5:25 and 5:36 Leo and Raph realized. Raph realized Leo was right, he was so consumed by his anger he was about to kill Leo, and no matter how angry he is at him, he'd never wanna kill his brother. And Leo realized the impact his absence had on Raph. Leo had heard his absence had affected Raph but he never believed it, especially since Raph is constantly an a** to him, but when he saw Raph's face as he held him down, he saw just how much he had let down his brother
Leo was concerned about failing his family he was trying to be better for them something that Raph does not appreciate. The thing is did Raph ever ask why he's not the leader and why he isn't ready? No he's just angry. If anything he should be mad at Splinter for making Leo the leader instead of him but that is never addressed for some reason.
Raph is too emotionally driven. He wouldn't make a good leader as you need to remain cool and level headed enough to ascertain the situation in an instant and make decisions based around that. Ralph's anger is the kind of thing that would send his men on a charge and won't realize until it's too late he sent his men to his deaths rushing into a death trap.
raph is my favorite turtle always will be my favorite and I completely agree with you. also in this movie raph realizes hes wrong and why Leonardo is the leader. beautiful storytelling
@@TheUnseenPath When Leo said "You're impatient, and hot tempered, and more importantly I'm better than you" Raph said he disagrees on the last one. Meaning (at least to me) somewhere inside him, Raph knows that his hot-headed attitude is why he isn't leader
Shit ... there it is. The comment i didn't know i was looking for. I KNEW THERE WAS SOMETHING i wasn't seeing. I feel relieved and emotional to see that between these characters after so many years.
I think bro was more shocked that they escalated so far tbh. Also he def has abandonment issues from when Leo left them. Cmon they prolly had the closest rs before ninja stuff got in the way and ig maybe raph started feeling some typa way when Leo starts acting more like a dad/‘leader’ than a big brother. Maybe ? Idk thats just my take
@@lani7776 That line makes it sound like Raph is evil and has joined the Foot Clan or the Stone Generals in the movie. How has someone not written a Fanfic where Raph does turn evil and join the Generals I don't know
I always pictured Raph as an M&M. He's got this incredibly hard, dense outer layer, and he uses it to keep everyone at arms length. But when you crack that layer, all the passion and intense emotion that keeps locked within all comes spilling out. The end of that fight didn't just crack Raph's shell, it shattered it.
Tbf at this point of the story the turtles must have faced several other mutants besides themselves for Leo to think this random turtle in a suit is one of his brothers.
He a real mf thats why...i beat ya ass retreated in sorrow and shame and instinctively return the millisecond i hear u in distress..one of the best sibling characters in history there's too many them being up top wit ed and al elric and kamina and simon
The panick in his voice when he ran away, combined with the desperation in his voice as he tried to save him. That combination made me tear up the first time I watched the movie. It still gets me a little choked up even now
I love that they both have good points. Leo is right that Raph isn’t ready and hot tempered. But I get why Raph is so angry towards Leo. He feels like Leo abandoned the team, the family. And now just comes back like nothing. Raph holds that anger in towards Leo for leaving. I love how it’s more than just bickering between the turtles. They both have legitimate reasons for the whole conflict throughout the movie. It’s so good!!
@@yeetnessthegreater1298yeah, I actually was going to ask am I wrong for saying Leo was a complete hypocrite for giving Raph shit for being a vigilante, when they've always been vigilantes their whole lives. And at least Raph didn't kill someone like Leo did.
Fun fact: The guy who voices Jonny from Jonny Test voiced Leo in this movie Edit: Another fun fact for y'all, Nolan North voiced Raph in this movie. Edit2: 500+ likes? Neat
I'm honestly tired of these band wagons accusations on the goats name. If you must know why Leo doesn't trust a unstoppable metal armored "Savior." I suggest you look up their arch nemesis and mabye for a second lets take a look into their lore a bit deeper. Cause as I remember a not very good disguised turtle saved a news reporter from getting jumped in a subway. Then had one just one guy follow him home only for that one guy to tell another metal armor "Savior" where they live. This causes their dad to get locked up and tortured. Their friends house to get burned down and there own to get molly whopped. So this same turtle decides to be on ego time and be on six different news channels, on copies of news papers, and a helicopter over that same turtle isn't that bright. Now mabye that turtle forgot but they are NINJA MUTANT TURTLES and having that exposed to the U.S. mabye isn't good for their family. So being a bit just a bit cautious mabye Leo the goat doesn't want that to happen again and escalate to a never ending run. But honestly if i hear one more person say leo is a egotistical hypocrite imma just copy and paste this cause I ain't having this disrespectful yapping session on the goat.
I can clearly see Leo holding back in the 2nd round. The animation is sooo beautiful I can literally see it on his face. And that line "don't do this Raph" just gives me more proof. While Raph is blinded by his fury and fights Leo as an enemy, Leo is fighting Raph as a brother Seriously this movie deserves so much more. It's so underrated 👌👌❤❤
@@davidc. nope. Leo was clearly holding back just by how he engaged raph. And the difference in the fight before and after he knew it was raph. Before, he absolutely dominated raph when he didn't know it was him
Yes I agree they they also need to make another cgi again because they turtles were just so good I want this animation with a mickey vs Donnie fight too that be cool
Craig Ortiz have you ever seen the fight between Sauske and Itachi, Todoroki and Dabi technically Dabi and Todoroki are brothers but they didn’t really fight, this of course:Leonardo and Raphael, and let’s not forget about Goku and Raditz
It's not just Raphael who comes to an understanding of his own mistakes. Leo does too. Leos flaw, is that despite him claiming to want to be a better leader, he's too focused on impressing splinter, always worried he'd never be good enough. Which is why his absence took longer than it needed. When splinter told Leo, after he came back, says that his absence has been rough on Raph, I don't think he exactly believes it. Especially since Raph constantly berates Leo througout the movie. It's only until he is pinned down and Raph nearly kills him that he sees just how hard its been for Raph. He realizes that he's neglected his brothers feelings because he was too focused on trying to be a good enough leader. But that doesn't mean he wasn't right about Raph in this case. Raph easily angered, and is very reckless. As emotional as this fight it, it was pretty nessicary just so the brothers can finally come to an understanding of each other.
Not to mention Leo was being a self righteous hypocrite. He disapproves of the Nightwatcher's vigilantism, but he was doing the same thing when he took down those men in Central America.
i think you just voiced what was the direction/vision behind the Leo-Raph tension in this movie. like this movie can be difficult to like/understand because a lot of scenes are cut/edited poorly. i can tell this movie was either rushed, scenes were deleted, some lines needed revision, and/or the order of scenes was stitched poorly together. that's why it makes it so hard to understand Leo and hard to understand Raph sometimes too. but you have uncovered the subtext of this fight scene brilliantly and i wish that the people behind this movie worked a little harder on the clarity of the tension
This movie was perfect when I was growing up and it still stands up today. Soundtrack was so memorable that I even remember it to this day, animation was obviously way ahead of its time, and the storyline was gripping and mature. You can tell that this is from the peak era of animated movies, it stands up with the best of them in my opinion
Raph has potential to be just as strong as leo,but as leo pointed in the figth Raphael temper makes him lose focus,and combat has a bit rythm component,you gotta move in a manner that saves energy,and raphael movements are wasteful
This fight is genuinely fantastic it showcases so much about them and how they operate and their strengths and weaknesses leo is more calm minded and technically adept than raph but raph is just physically his superior it's a really good showcase
Love This Whole Movie A Lot Especially This Scene, And You Can Tell They Are Not Trying To Hurt One Another If You watch Closely You Can Tell They Holding Back, Or In More Words Leo Is Holding Back; While Raph Is Letting Out All His Anger And Frustration.
And to be honest I like the idea that Raph is better in a fight than Leo. It's kind of a 2-way humility check for the both of them. It's a constant reminder that physical prowess isn't the thing that makes for a good leader
Well most people are in agreement that Leo was winning till he saw it was Raph and held back. And even while holding back, leo still would’ve won as seen at 4:52. That was clearly a killing shot, but obviously Leo wasn’t trying to kill his brother so he struck at the side of his head
You know what. The real fight here is the argument Leo and Raph have. It’s such a wonderfully directed scene that’s written perfectly for these two. James Arnold Taylor and Nolan North absolutely killed it with their performances here. They really feel like they were close once and but drifting away by both of their egos.
Perfect example of animation having absolutely no reason to be so good, this fight between Ralph and Leo is absolutely cinema on par with some of the best rival battles in cinema history.
The shot composition in this is amazing. When they were about to square off Ralph was under blue lighting and Leo under red lighting (opposite colors) From the story, to the dialogue to the writing, even the background shows the conflicting sides but also how they both have good points
I'm honestly tired of these band wagons accusations on the goats name. If you must know why Leo doesn't trust a unstoppable metal armored "Savior." I suggest you look up their arch nemesis and mabye for a second lets take a look into their lore a bit deeper. Cause as I remember a not very good disguised turtle saved a news reporter from getting jumped in a subway. Then had one just one guy follow him home only for that one guy to tell another metal armor "Savior" where they live. This causes their dad to get locked up and tortured. Their friends house to get burned down and there own to get molly whopped. So this same turtle decides to be on ego time and be on six different news channels, on copies of news papers, and a helicopter over that same turtle isn't that bright. Now mabye that turtle forgot but they are NINJA MUTANT TURTLES and having that exposed to the U.S. mabye isn't good for their family. So being a bit just a bit cautious mabye Leo the goat doesn't want that to happen again and escalate to a never ending run. But honestly if i hear one more person say leo is a egotistical hypocrite imma just copy and paste this cause I ain't having this disrespectful yapping session on the goat.
@@Turboman-kx7cc I'm honestly tired of these band wagons accusations on the goats name. If you must know why Leo doesn't trust a unstoppable metal armored "Savior." I suggest you look up their arch nemesis and mabye for a second lets take a look into their lore a bit deeper. Cause as I remember a not very good disguised turtle saved a news reporter from getting jumped in a subway. Then had one just one guy follow him home only for that one guy to tell another metal armor "Savior" where they live. This causes their dad to get locked up and tortured. Their friends house to get burned down and there own to get molly whopped. So this same turtle decides to be on ego time and be on six different news channels, on copies of news papers, and a helicopter over that same turtle isn't that bright. Now mabye that turtle forgot but they are NINJA MUTANT TURTLES and having that exposed to the U.S. mabye isn't good for their family. So being a bit just a bit cautious mabye Leo the goat doesn't want that to happen again and escalate to a never ending run. But honestly if i hear one more person say leo is a egotistical hypocrite imma just copy and paste this cause I ain't having this disrespectful yapping session on the goat.
@@andycash9143 I'm honestly tired of these band wagons accusations on the goats name. If you must know why Leo doesn't trust a unstoppable metal armored "Savior." I suggest you look up their arch nemesis and mabye for a second lets take a look into their lore a bit deeper. Cause as I remember a not very good disguised turtle saved a news reporter from getting jumped in a subway. Then had one just one guy follow him home only for that one guy to tell another metal armor "Savior" where they live. This causes their dad to get locked up and tortured. Their friends house to get burned down and there own to get molly whopped. So this same turtle decides to be on ego time and be on six different news channels, on copies of news papers, and a helicopter over that same turtle isn't that bright. Now mabye that turtle forgot but they are NINJA MUTANT TURTLES and having that exposed to the U.S. mabye isn't good for their family. So being a bit just a bit cautious mabye Leo the goat doesn't want that to happen again and escalate to a never ending run. But honestly if i hear one more person say leo is a egotistical hypocrite imma just copy and paste this cause I ain't having this disrespectful yapping session on the goat.
I just love how this movie and this scene specifically it's one of the most shocking and deep scene in all TMNT universe (in MY opinion) because in all TMNT version Raph and Leo have this rivality and being opposite sides of the same coin, but in this scene they actually face each other and fight for real, being a truly emotional scene not only for them being a team, but a family. I can understand both of their sides: Leo always was trained to be ther best and always tested his limits, he trained hard to his family and to be a better not only as a leader but a older brother (because yes, it's confirmed that in the 2003, 2007 and most version of TMNT, Leonardo it's the older brother), everything he did was thinking to be a better figure and leading his team and family. Meanwhile Raph, as the second oldest brother never accept Leo's leadership, he fels everybody prefers Leo and as a "shadow" of him, he also wants to be good for himself and his family, he never accept the fact that their aren't the sam as the past and didn't accept to move on like Donnie or Mikey did. I just hate when someone want to be hateful toward Leo or Raph just to defend one of them, BOTH ARE RIGHT, both have their own way to see things, personality and learnings, they are different from each other and their scene was their finally showing this and talking everything they think, it was a big great scene to their characters developments. This movie it's my favorite one and deserves so much more attention, and I love the turtles version and how they are more mature and serious, but also showing the soft and funny side, as so many others TMNT versions
I was an adult by the time this was released. I was so adamant about seeing another live-action film like the ones I grew up on in the 90s, that I initially wrote this off as a "video game cutscene movie". It wasn't until the ridiculous 2014 film came out that I finally watched this. I didn't realize how serious this project was taken and well animated it was.
Leo wins the hand-to-hand combat by playing on Raph's anger. Raph wins the test of strength after Leo underestimates how strong he is. And both brothers stalemate while holding their signature weapons. They did such a good job to make neither look weak. That's how you write a script for a hero versus hero fight.
I think Raph makes good points as well. Leo is a smug bastard at the best of times that needs a healthy serving of humble pie. He's arrogant and just so damn annoying some times. He's like a bad parent that buggers off to do whatever and then comes back thinking they can take the reins again whenever they feel like it. I think that smug arrogant attitude comes from being Splinters favourite. Yes, Splinter says he doesn't have favourites but everyone knows it's not true. No one gets the same amount of support, one on one time or protection as Leo does. Leo can screw up bad and all he gets is "you're the eldest I expect you to try harder next time. You're learning" but when specifically Raphael screws up Splinter can be quite nasty and unfair to him. Donnie gets little attention and Micky gets left to his own devices because of his manic energy Splinter can't stand. Leo is the favourite simply because his and Splinters energies and values line up the most. If that's not a toxic set up for a family, I don't know what is. And in terms of the direct happenings in this movie, imagine how his brothers feel. The only reason Don and Mike aren't on Raph's side is because they're too non-confrontational and loud as Raph. You don't think those two had their thoughts on doing their own thing and having their own lives for over year and then suddenly it gets interrupted because Leo just decided on a guilty whim to come back. He went off to improve himself, which is a good thing, but just never came back and wasn't likely to ever come back. He literally abandoned his family. It wasn't until April literally fell ass backwards into finding him and told him how things were that he came back, not from loyalty or missing his family but from guilt. Also, who decides what works and what doesn't for people? April and Leo talk about how things are and it's labelled bad simply because they decided it was. Mikey and Don had their own businesses and were doing damn well for themselves but because they're not training and focusing on their own thing, it's bad? Leo decides that his brothers don't have the right priorities and thinks it's perfectly reasonable to come barging in and handed out corrections left and right. He walks into every room thinking he knows better and everyone else should just automatically listen to him, no questions asked. He thinks everyone is helpless without his leadership and tends to have a really uncomfortable view over his position that everyone must bow to his will whether they like, need or want it or not. With this view, he has a borderline toxic and controlling relationship with his brothers. One of the most toxic things he does with alarming regularity is tell his family "I know better than you. You don't know what you're doing so I have to tell you what to do" that's literally the line that domestic violence posters say to watch for to tell if there's abuse going on. And he doesn't even take into account other's input because"I've already thought this plan through so need for you to say anything" and if a plan goes wrong THEN he demands input. As in other renditions of TMNT, either from his own superiority complex or from Splinters more toxic influences, he tends to parent his brothers and think he's perfectly within his right to talk down to them and hand out punishment like a parent but also kinda bully and harrass them like a brother. Raph may have his own toxic traits but at least if someone says "hey back off, I don't want your input right now" he does. He doesn't have an insufferable need to be the centre of everything or be in everyone's business. Raph says plain as day in this fight that he wants to lead himself and not anyone else and Leo literal tells him he can't manage leadership. Does Leo just not listen when others speak? Raph doesn't want to lord over others, just have his own autonomy and make his own choices. Anyway, rant over. Thanks for listening
Good rant and perfectly understandable. The holier than thou types seem to get portrayed as perfect do gooders that can do no wrong and they typically don't even get humbled or punished for it. It's frustrating
even though leo was right… He was being a major hypocrite. He literally was across the world being a vigilante as well. also, the brothers werent allowed to protect NYC while he was gone and they left it to the police?? I mean CMON. at least Raph and Casey were helping out.
I'm honestly tired of these band wagons accusations on the goats name. If you must know why Leo doesn't trust a unstoppable metal armored "Savior." I suggest you look up their arch nemesis and mabye for a second lets take a look into their lore a bit deeper. Cause as I remember a not very good disguised turtle saved a news reporter from getting jumped in a subway. Then had one just one guy follow him home only for that one guy to tell another metal armor "Savior" where they live. This causes their dad to get locked up and tortured. Their friends house to get burned down and there own to get molly whopped. So this same turtle decides to be on ego time and be on six different news channels, on copies of news papers, and a helicopter over that same turtle isn't that bright. Now mabye that turtle forgot but they are NINJA MUTANT TURTLES and having that exposed to the U.S. mabye isn't good for their family. So being a bit just a bit cautious mabye Leo the goat doesn't want that to happen again and escalate to a never ending run. But honestly if i hear one more person say leo is a egotistical hypocrite imma just copy and paste this cause I ain't having this disrespectful yapping session on the goat.
This makes me think of "The Lion King" battle with Simba and Scar battle it out. The reasons are kind of about leadership in this battle with Leo and Raph, but it's also about feeling hurt and betrayed for Leo never coming back home until a year AFTER training. The brotherly love is still there and instead of trying to kill his older brother (like Scar did) he spares him when he realizes he can't do it.
Unbiased interpretation. Leo dominated in the first fight bc Ralph is strapped up in a bunch of crap and has a helmet that clouds his peripheral vision. Before the second fight, in a moment of arrogance, Leo directly challenged Ralph to a fight by claiming he’s better than him. A controlled leader that “understands his team” also knows what provokes them. Ralph accepted his challenge and won the fight. Leo wanted that fight just as much as Ralph, and he lost fair and square. Leo didn’t really “hold back”, but obviously neither of them wanted to kill each other. But to suggest that Leo wasn’t trying to assert his dominance is ludicrous.
I agree. While Leo has superior discipline and skill, Raph has superior strength. Both aren’t necessarily better or worse than the other. They just have different strengths and weaknesses. However when working together they cancel out there weaknesses and amplify their strength which is why the turtles are unstoppable when working together.
I would technically disagree the scene where Leo puts the sword up to raphs neck he could’ve ended the fight right then and there quickly I’d like to imagine in a way he was holding back but he was trying to win a certain way due to his cockiness which gave raph the win
Raph really just felt abandoned and wounded by Leo. Imagine going a WHOLE YEAR without hearing from a loved one. For all Raph knew, Leo could have been lost or dead or hurt in the jungle. So when he returned, totally fine and definitely healthy enough to keep in touch, it made him angry that Leo would cause him so much worry and then just pop back into their lives. So, Raph lashed out to conceal his hurt. He probably believed he didn't matter enough to Leo to keep in contact with him. 😢
"More importantly I am better than you" To Quote another wise master. "That is why you fail" You should never ever have that mindset that you are better than your own brothers, let alone say that to them. It sets you up for failure. Neither of them were winners in this battle and it really showed. Leo thinking this was the best way to get through to Raph, Ralp almost killing Leo. The only thing that was good about that fight was that they both learned lessons.
@@artieo5339 Leo was also angry and it really showed considering what he said, and the fact he decided to engage Ralph 'often the muscle' of the team in a contest of pure brute strength with the weapon lock, against Sai's and got his swords broken. I think they both learned anger is not useful.
@@blastchambers2150 Leo isn’t angry, he’s worn out with the insubordination and disrespect from Raph. Leo gets blamed by Raph for not coming back or “abandoning them.” Then he gets blamed by Raph for coming back and following instructions from their father/sensei. He isn’t angry he’s exhausted with Raphs poor judgment and poor attitude. All Leo is doing is standing up for himself and his leadership value. No where in anything he did showed he was angry in anyway.
@@artieo5339 @Artie O he is pretty angry considering the stab he took at Ralphs head, and the lack of judgement he had in that fight leading him to loose it, as well as the things he said. Finally the reasons you just stated would be enough to cause anger as well. That's what this whole fight is. Two brothers working out anger badly.
@@blastchambers2150 you’re delusional if you think that stab to the head was anything other than Leo proving he’s better. That wasn’t a move because Leo was angry. You can clearly see who’s angry and who’s not. Leo says very very calmly, “don’t do this Ralph” to which Raph say in a very angry way, “I’m done taking orders”.
Also, Rapheal coming to a dead end and the camera showing he has nowhere to go but down is kind of simialur to when Scar realizes he's on the edge of the cliff and he has no choice but to fight or beg for mercy.
If you pay attention, you can quite tell how Leo wasn't at full skill on the second round. In the first fight, he dodged every hit from Raphs chain attacks and blocked all his punches except one and punched Raph like 6 feet in the air. In the 2nd round, his movements didn't seem as fast as before and Raph ended up breaking Leo's swords and was close to killing him.
If you're going to do a leo-raph rivalry, do it like this; Raph has a reason to feel angry, he felt abandoned. Once Leo came back, suddenly, Raph's coping mechanism was wrong, his alter-ego was a bad guy, and in his mind, its all leo's fault.
Better question, why are there still people hating on this movie?! As a kid, sure the animation studio filed for bankruptcy because of the box-office failure of “Astro Boy” (which, I also have a soft spot for.), but I remember loving it so much! I remember being mesmerized by not only the animation, but the music, the voice-acting and the sound design. Sure, the whole story of the Turtles fighting the 4 stone warriors and freeing the ancient monsters and closing a portal to another dimension, sure it’s a ridiculous plot, but since it is an animated movie, I feel like the story is supposed to be ludicrous and silly, but for me, THEY EMBRACED IT!!! And they got the right people to voice the Turtles!! James Arnold Taylor as Leonardo, Nolan North as Raphael, Mikey Kelly as Michelangelo and Mitchel Whitfield as Donatello? Perfect casting!! So yeah, I don’t care what you people say about this movie, I dug the hell out of this film! It’s such an underrated gem.
I love how in the next scene of the movie, Splinter implies that if Raphael learned to be more compassionate and managed to focus his emotions in a goal, he would be the only leader the team would need, surpassing Leo in both fighting skills and leadership
A Staple of my Childhood. Yeah, 2007 did bring me the light of day when this movie came out. Just 4 months before Total Drama Island, even though this show premiered on July from that same year.
Okay seriously can all you leo stans just stop already. Leo lost, Raph won fair and square. Leo wasn't holding back, Leo was cocky and arrogant, and because of that he underestimated Raph, and got wrecked.
I’m not privy to either character so trying to be unbiased I’d like to give my opinion Leo’s biggest flaws as a character from my POV is that while he is a dedicated student to Master Splinter he’s also very rigid towards Splinters doctrine and in some sense you can criticize that rather than learn from Splinter he sometimes repeats rather than substantially understands the words of his father Leo does have a bit of arrogance in being Splinters number 1 student hence when he recites lessons from Splinter in a very arrogant manner But Leo was shown to have a lot of control over the situation when he thought of his opponent as some unknown vigilante When he realizes it’s Raphael his emotions begin to interfere in his control and focus over the situation Raphs fatal flaw is that his anger leads to often unforeseen consequences though that doesn’t mean it’s a bad quality of his rather it’s his passion that makes him such a loyal and loving brother albeit it comes out filtered with all that anger
Dude it's a fact. Before he knew it was raph he was dominating. And u can tell with the way he fought that he didn't want to. And he was calm. He was only caught off guard with his swords breaking.
The fact that this movie didn't get it's trilogy is a crime This movie was on the level of the first TMNT movie The story, the characters, the animation And it gave us the best fight ever Leo and Raph going at it is still incredible
This is my all-time favorite teenage mutant Ninja turtles movie it's the most grounded realistic and relatable we have ever seen any of these characters the writing here between the characters is phenomenal and the slow deterioration of the relationship between Raphael and Leonardo to the point where it spills out into violence is just fantastic writing one of the most tragic but honest portrayals of sibling rivalry gone wrong caused by a sense of abandonment by a loved one this movie will always be special to me
This movie was greatly underrated, it some of the primo va you could get, Patrick Stewart, Sarah Gellar, Chris Evans, James Arnold Tay, Nolan North and of course the late great Mako.
Leo mistake was saying he's better than raplh. Not true. All of them have weaknesses. Leo was being to cocky raplh shut him up. Leo didn't hold back and no he didn't change his blade, he firmly grip it and was ready to strike. Raplh is the strongest turtle and he fights like a warrior. Leo is the better leader overall. Raplh weakness is his anger but deep down he loves all his brother and will do whatever to protect them. When leo said he was better than raplh, it sounded like a challenge and raplh wanted to prove a point and he felt bad afterward.
Valid points but I don’t know if I’d say leo wasn’t holding back,I think he was tbh. In the first round Leo edged him out in battle,it wasn’t until he realized he was fighting his brother,mental nerf,like you can clearly see the change in tone and body language as well.Leonardo was for sure cocky in the scene,acting like Raphael wasn’t getting experience and training as well.But I do believe he was holding back against him,Leo only battled Raphael because he knew Raph wouldn’t let him leave without trying to make him eat his words😂Raphael is easily the most physically strongest yes,but a better warrior? Kind of a long shot imo,I do respect your points about their respective weaknesses though.
@@LorSuefong he fought a horde of foot clan members and traded killing blows with karai in the end. Leonardo did the same shit in the 2003 series,arguably with more formidable opponents,only difference is he didn’t die. I see your point but bringing that up did nothing In all honesty. Dying a warrior doesn’t make you better than someone else who lived to tell the story. Though In the ronin comic they all bit the dust so💔🤷🏽♂️
Round 1 : Raphael lost however that fight came with certain factors like Raphael being restricted in a metal suit + he was already busy crime fighting before fighting Leo Round 2 : Leo lost because he was being arrogant and didnt see that his brother wasnt a push over. Just 1 silly mistake for leo was all Raphael needed. However i do believe that Leo is the one with most potential and is calm and thinks before he acts and therefore he is the leader. But this Leo isnt prime Leo if you get me,but we all know he will get there
Another thing to absolutely consider for round 2 is Leo holding back. He had a clean shot when Raph was backed into a corner, and didn't take it, just wanting to send the message that he could win, but doesn't want to hurt Raph.
Even fifteen years later, the animation is extremely high quality.
The movie came out in 2007, so unless production started in 2005, it would be 13 years later
@@tdmuck It's been 15 years now lol
@@naqi2270 yes. Yes it has
ya its sad this studio who made this went under tho.
imagi. thanks for this. it was a worthy TMNT movie.
also this fight is legendary. the buried feelings of both brothers over the years have surfaced and are spoken. resulting in this fight.
proving once and for ALL why leo is the leader and splinters choosen son.
Graphics looking better than what so studios can put out today. THIS FIGHT WAS SICK THIS IS WHAT WE NEED MAN. What happen to these Drama Cartoons man. Gonna watch stuff like Teen Titans GO RIP Cartoons OG😢!!!
I absolutely love this movie and I find it horrible it didn't get a sequel. It looks beautiful and it has effort put into the writing.
Right? There's also some lore as well
And the voice acting for the two are perfect why doesnt anyone mention that
The main plot is what seriously drags this movie down for me though. This movie was just short on being great.
The studio had plans for one but it went bankrupt sadly
@@CantRead1Yeah it's like three diffrent plots being mashed togather. But let's give them credit flows better than other movies like Spiderman 3 and amazing 2! Isn't it f.r.?
"And more importantly, I'm better than you."
Maybe the worst thing Leo could have said.
It was fax, Leo always been the most skilled amongst his bros
@@jasond721 it's more an attitude of a boss than a leader. Leader thinks of himself as equal to his bros, not better. I also agree with Raph. Someone had to take care of the city, while the same lone hero is treated like crap for keeping city intact in solo instead of doing it in four. Like what would Leo suggest, let criminals get away?
Raphael: DA*N!!!!!!
@@TailsDollOS fact still remains, Leo is better. It wasn't raph that beat splinter in 03' and got a hit on him in 012'.
It wasn't raph that beat shedder in 03' and got a hit on him in 90'.
It wasn't raph beating all his bros at once in 03'.
Since when raph become Leo 🤔
Since when raph become better 🙄
In terms of attitude & strategy, raph is the bad azz / wolverine of the group, but he not better than Leo nor can he beat Leo.
it was Raph who beat the shit out of Karai when leo lost to her in '03, it was Raph that beat the shit out of Leo when he was angry at him in '03 don't remeber the context, Raph many times showed that he is not as mature as Leo, but strong as hell too
I can’t believe Nolan North voiced Raphael. Considering he does goofy characters like Richthofen from COD and the Penguin from the arkham series it’s insane seeing him do this New York Accented Raphael, what an amazing voice actor
He also did the voice for smokescreen in Transformers Prime
Don't forget about Deadpool
Why am I finding this out now I’m literally playing the game right now lmfaoo
He also voiced Nathan Drake
@@jldog134 and Tony Stark
That scream at 6:34 will forever and always give me chills. And it was very clear Leo held back in the second round. He wasnt fighting as aggressive and his face in the power clash said it all too
Jesus Christ, be more biased why don't you?
@@haylongwang3002 it's not biased. He didn't know it was raph, he sat his ass down with little effort. And even his Expression shows he's not even close to into the fight as much as raph is
@@ZarrarAAli Yes when he fought raph in hand to hand combat then he won, cus thats not their main weapons or the combat the yare best at. So that dont mean shit.
And hiis expression was that of gritted teeth and trying his hardest. Even though he dont looks as savage as Raph so is that due to their personalities, nothing else.
You got even proven in concept of this fight all outcomes where Raph winning, which he did regardless. You are just biased af man
Yep ur right🙏🏿
Correction leo was fighting very aggressive and direct. That's not his fighting style so obviously Ralph would win. Ralph is physically stronger
I love how you can see Raph’s almost horror at what he almost did to Leo when he let his anger consume him
And the face when he saw Leo being taken away, his mind told him to keep running, but his heart told him to go back and save his bro!
this was some neat character development
one of the best scenes in the whole franchise. The choreography, the voice acting, the story behind it, the dialogue, it's epic.
Shame on the people who hated this movie! For me, this movie is one of my personal favorites in the franchise. I remember the animation being so mesmerizing and the voice-acting for the Ninja Turtles themselves are just so incredible. James Arnold Taylor (Ratchet from “Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart) as Leonardo, Nolan North (Nathan Drake from the “Uncharted” games.) as Raphael, Mikey Kelly as Michelangelo and Mitchel Whitfield as Donatello. Top-notch casting in my opinion! So yeah, I don’t care what the haters say about this movie, I love this film!
@@G.S.Productions Same! One of my favorite movies, I watched it on repeat as a kid.
I love how there’s always a rivalry between Ralph and Leo. This was probably the best fight they’ve done and the story behind it makes it emotional to watch. I hope they do something like this in the future
Raphael & Leonardo are in a way just like Jason Todd & Dick Grayson from Gotham Knights.
It really emphasises their traits, Leo cares for Raph, he’s looking out for him and Raph is quick to fight and it proved what Leo was saying was right, Raph is too quick to anger and too impatient, Leo was messing up the “vigilante” until he learned their identity, you can tell he starts holding back but meanwhile Raph takes the fight too far he goes all out as always, it shows why Leo is the leader, he may not always know what’s best for everyone but he tries to protect his family no matter what while Raphs anger led to him attacking Leo and running away when he realised Leo was completely right
@@miragemain105Leo may have been seeming like a hypocrite for taking off, but he has always been disciplined and dedicated to his craft and training, hence why he did along with Splinter’s blessing to do so, and it felt easy since Shredder was gone, but he didn't see how it might affect the others especially given in spite of how much Raph butts heads with Leo, he loves him in spite of his jealousy at Leo as well. Particularly Raph since he was out of the loop.
"You thought The Shredder worked alone, Leo."
@@lani7776 that was a reference to the creepypasta of mario world?
As you get older, you realize *both* are right in their arguments. Raph is mad at Leo because he was gone longer than he was supposed to be, Leo was more concerned with disappointing Splinter rather than being there for his little brothers. But at the same time Leo is right in that Raph's hotheaded attitude was why he wasn't ready to go alone.
At 5:25 and 5:36 Leo and Raph realized. Raph realized Leo was right, he was so consumed by his anger he was about to kill Leo, and no matter how angry he is at him, he'd never wanna kill his brother. And Leo realized the impact his absence had on Raph. Leo had heard his absence had affected Raph but he never believed it, especially since Raph is constantly an a** to him, but when he saw Raph's face as he held him down, he saw just how much he had let down his brother
Leo was concerned about failing his family he was trying to be better for them something that Raph does not appreciate. The thing is did Raph ever ask why he's not the leader and why he isn't ready? No he's just angry. If anything he should be mad at Splinter for making Leo the leader instead of him but that is never addressed for some reason.
Raph is too emotionally driven. He wouldn't make a good leader as you need to remain cool and level headed enough to ascertain the situation in an instant and make decisions based around that. Ralph's anger is the kind of thing that would send his men on a charge and won't realize until it's too late he sent his men to his deaths rushing into a death trap.
raph is my favorite turtle always will be my favorite and I completely agree with you. also in this movie raph realizes hes wrong and why Leonardo is the leader. beautiful storytelling
@@TheUnseenPath When Leo said "You're impatient, and hot tempered, and more importantly I'm better than you" Raph said he disagrees on the last one. Meaning (at least to me) somewhere inside him, Raph knows that his hot-headed attitude is why he isn't leader
Shit ... there it is. The comment i didn't know i was looking for. I KNEW THERE WAS SOMETHING i wasn't seeing. I feel relieved and emotional to see that between these characters after so many years.
That wasn't just rage in Raph's eyes it was......actual hatred. He genuinely wanted Leo dead.
I think bro was more shocked that they escalated so far tbh. Also he def has abandonment issues from when Leo left them. Cmon they prolly had the closest rs before ninja stuff got in the way and ig maybe raph started feeling some typa way when Leo starts acting more like a dad/‘leader’ than a big brother. Maybe ? Idk thats just my take
"You thought The Shredder worked alone, Leo?"
@@lani7776 That line makes it sound like Raph is evil and has joined the Foot Clan or the Stone Generals in the movie. How has someone not written a Fanfic where Raph does turn evil and join the Generals I don't know
I always pictured Raph as an M&M. He's got this incredibly hard, dense outer layer, and he uses it to keep everyone at arms length. But when you crack that layer, all the passion and intense emotion that keeps locked within all comes spilling out.
The end of that fight didn't just crack Raph's shell, it shattered it.
Nah. That's his bro. He's sayin, " I spared u nigga turtle"!
Leo didn’t notice that the Nightwatcher had 3 fingers.
Literally😂😂
And a shell
Tbf at this point of the story the turtles must have faced several other mutants besides themselves for Leo to think this random turtle in a suit is one of his brothers.
@@mikelasley8784 Actually this movie is supposed to be a sequel from the 1990 movie, eventhough it has more elements from the 2003 series.
I love it when Rapheal came back, after retreating.
Fr that’s love right there. You fight but you still brothers first end of the day
He a real mf thats why...i beat ya ass retreated in sorrow and shame and instinctively return the millisecond i hear u in distress..one of the best sibling characters in history there's too many them being up top wit ed and al elric and kamina and simon
Yes, he fought his brother, but at the end of the day there’s nothing he wouldn’t do for him. Love.
The panick in his voice when he ran away, combined with the desperation in his voice as he tried to save him. That combination made me tear up the first time I watched the movie. It still gets me a little choked up even now
I love that they both have good points. Leo is right that Raph isn’t ready and hot tempered. But I get why Raph is so angry towards Leo. He feels like Leo abandoned the team, the family. And now just comes back like nothing. Raph holds that anger in towards Leo for leaving. I love how it’s more than just bickering between the turtles. They both have legitimate reasons for the whole conflict throughout the movie. It’s so good!!
I mean not only that the major one is Leo being a big hypocrite as many pointed
@@yeetnessthegreater1298yeah, I actually was going to ask am I wrong for saying Leo was a complete hypocrite for giving Raph shit for being a vigilante, when they've always been vigilantes their whole lives. And at least Raph didn't kill someone like Leo did.
@@jayheadley8061yeah but the point he’s making is if raph got exposed as this vigilante then their whole family is exposed
@@jfreshmoney619 Fair enough.
Nah Leo is in the wrong. He is highly egotistical,
Leo is Nightwing and Raph is Red Hood lmao.
Accurate
Good comparison
Nightwatcher reminds me of Arkham knight
Fun fact: The guy who voices Jonny from Jonny Test voiced Leo in this movie
Edit: Another fun fact for y'all, Nolan North voiced Raph in this movie.
Edit2: 500+ likes? Neat
He also did Ratchet And Clank.
That also
Plus Spider-Man
Obi-Wan, Johnny Test I can name a few others.
James Arnold Taylor!
When you realize Nathan Drake and Ratchet are going at it.
Dang you made this fight even better for me
It's PlayStation All Stars Battle Royale before it even existed!
@@monstermastergodzilla6813that would be a death battle right
@Price Moore They did:
Ratchet and Clank vs Jak and Daxter
Lara Croft vs Nathan Drake
Mikey is voiced by the first Ratchet too
8 years and not a single comment on this godlike scene? You've failed me internet
Facts this COUNTRY USE TO STAND FOR SOMETHING
I heard your call! I came as soon as I could!
Lol there is 6 comments all in 24 hours for some random reason. I searched for the video
@@iakovos56literally same, like wtf
@@iakovos56 same xdd
I find it hilarious that a vigilante is telling another vigilante to stop.
I'm honestly tired of these band wagons accusations on the goats name. If you must know why Leo doesn't trust a unstoppable metal armored "Savior." I suggest you look up their arch nemesis and mabye for a second lets take a look into their lore a bit deeper. Cause as I remember a not very good disguised turtle saved a news reporter from getting jumped in a subway. Then had one just one guy follow him home only for that one guy to tell another metal armor "Savior" where they live. This causes their dad to get locked up and tortured. Their friends house to get burned down and there own to get molly whopped. So this same turtle decides to be on ego time and be on six different news channels, on copies of news papers, and a helicopter over that same turtle isn't that bright. Now mabye that turtle forgot but they are NINJA MUTANT TURTLES and having that exposed to the U.S. mabye isn't good for their family. So being a bit just a bit cautious mabye Leo the goat doesn't want that to happen again and escalate to a never ending run. But honestly if i hear one more person say leo is a egotistical hypocrite imma just copy and paste this cause I ain't having this disrespectful yapping session on the goat.
bro this comment is 1 years old @@donnyjames783
Bro mardon jus say sorry man
@@donnyjames783 raph is my favorite character but youre 100% right theres a reason LEO is the leader. raph even accepts that in the movie
I can clearly see Leo holding back in the 2nd round. The animation is sooo beautiful I can literally see it on his face. And that line "don't do this Raph" just gives me more proof. While Raph is blinded by his fury and fights Leo as an enemy, Leo is fighting Raph as a brother
Seriously this movie deserves so much more. It's so underrated 👌👌❤❤
It really is very underrated
Yes bro I’m glad you can see the difference as well 🙏🏾
He isn't. They both were angry and trying as hard as they could lmao. Movie makes that pretty clear
@@davidc. nope. Leo was clearly holding back just by how he engaged raph. And the difference in the fight before and after he knew it was raph. Before, he absolutely dominated raph when he didn't know it was him
@@ZarrarAAli what was 4:53 then? Leo holding back? pretty sure that would have ended raph
They need to do something like this again whether it’s in a movie or series another Leo and Raph fight would be great.
Yes I agree they they also need to make another cgi again because they turtles were just so good I want this animation with a mickey vs Donnie fight too that be cool
Leo did fight a Kraang infected Raph in sort of a reverse of ideals in the new Rise of the TMNT movie
@@kanemccarthy1979but let’s be real, it’s wasn’t Raph in control in that movie. In this one, Raph has full control of his body and actions-
Best fight between brother's.
thats very bad, i don't like raph and leo are fighting, becuase if they are murdering themselves, like death battle
Craig Ortiz have you ever seen the fight between Sauske and Itachi, Todoroki and Dabi technically Dabi and Todoroki are brothers but they didn’t really fight, this of course:Leonardo and Raphael, and let’s not forget about Goku and Raditz
[youtuber] Ramy Hosam you must haven’t seen naruto vs sasuke
@@shemarregans dude I don't think Naruto and Sasuke are brothers unless your talking about a different type of brothers: very close friends
You haven’t seen Noob Saibot (Bi Han) Vs Sub Zero (Kuai Liang)
It's not just Raphael who comes to an understanding of his own mistakes. Leo does too. Leos flaw, is that despite him claiming to want to be a better leader, he's too focused on impressing splinter, always worried he'd never be good enough. Which is why his absence took longer than it needed. When splinter told Leo, after he came back, says that his absence has been rough on Raph, I don't think he exactly believes it. Especially since Raph constantly berates Leo througout the movie. It's only until he is pinned down and Raph nearly kills him that he sees just how hard its been for Raph. He realizes that he's neglected his brothers feelings because he was too focused on trying to be a good enough leader. But that doesn't mean he wasn't right about Raph in this case. Raph easily angered, and is very reckless. As emotional as this fight it, it was pretty nessicary just so the brothers can finally come to an understanding of each other.
Not to mention Leo was being a self righteous hypocrite. He disapproves of the Nightwatcher's vigilantism, but he was doing the same thing when he took down those men in Central America.
i think you just voiced what was the direction/vision behind the Leo-Raph tension in this movie. like this movie can be difficult to like/understand because a lot of scenes are cut/edited poorly. i can tell this movie was either rushed, scenes were deleted, some lines needed revision, and/or the order of scenes was stitched poorly together. that's why it makes it so hard to understand Leo and hard to understand Raph sometimes too. but you have uncovered the subtext of this fight scene brilliantly and i wish that the people behind this movie worked a little harder on the clarity of the tension
This movie truly is an underrated gem and it’s way better than the Michael bay movies
Fight scenes in Michael Bay TMNT are mostly trash except the Shredder fights
Big facts
The turtles in those movies were too big and bulky, their size prevented them from doing actual ninjitsu.
Which is why the fight scenes were lacking.
The music in this movie is so emotional and battle driven....this scene shows what happens when brothers and allies cross the line!
I honestly find it hard to believe that this movie never got a sequel.
It’s crazy they had 2-3 sequels planned for this movie
@@javonharris9295 now I'm pissed
Fun fact this takes place in the same timeline as the 90s turtles
@@work90 the studio went bankrupt sadly
@@JaneyJ229 thanks to Astro Boy bombing at the box office
As a kid, I always thought that Raphael was pretty cool. But growing up, I learned that Leonardo was right.
you sure that leaving city unprotected is a good idea?
@@TailsDollOS you think Leo was on vacation?
@@honeycat3590 nope. But Leo was literally doing the same thing raph was doing
No he wasn't, he was being a hypocrite
So you grew up to be a hypocrite?
This movie was perfect when I was growing up and it still stands up today. Soundtrack was so memorable that I even remember it to this day, animation was obviously way ahead of its time, and the storyline was gripping and mature. You can tell that this is from the peak era of animated movies, it stands up with the best of them in my opinion
Am I the only person that see's the NightWatcher as Red Hood and Leo as Nightwing?
Nope. But I could also see them as marvel anti heroes like daredevil (Leo) and Punisher (Rafael)
same
That's more accurate@@SuperiorPhantom-dx6vh
I love this as a kid, and now I appreciate it so much more than I did
same
true we grew up watching pretty dope stuff. can kind of explain why I can hardly get into anything new
I love it how leo is more skilled then raph and taunts him
Raph has potential to be just as strong as leo,but as leo pointed in the figth
Raphael temper makes him lose focus,and combat has a bit rythm component,you gotta move in a manner that saves energy,and raphael movements are wasteful
Precisely :)
More skilled but he is weaker
He has more skills, but he's weaker than raph, so in 10 fights raph wins 6 atleast
Barely more skillful and significantly less strong.
This fight is genuinely fantastic it showcases so much about them and how they operate and their strengths and weaknesses leo is more calm minded and technically adept than raph but raph is just physically his superior it's a really good showcase
Love This Whole Movie A Lot Especially This Scene, And You Can Tell They Are Not Trying To Hurt One Another If You watch Closely You Can Tell They Holding Back, Or In More Words Leo Is Holding Back; While Raph Is Letting Out All His Anger And Frustration.
4:52 Sure about that?
@@jbourbon3734 What Do You Mean?
@@chelseawilliams8007 Leo almost stabbed Raph through the face.
@@jbourbon3734 Oh I didn't See That Part But I See That Leo Isn't Out To Hurt His Brother, And Beside He Refuse To fight His brother
@@jbourbon3734 Leo knew Ralph would dodge and besides the stand wasn't close his face
As someone who’s seen raph get the vegeta treatment more times than I can count, it was great to see him finally prove his skill to Leo
And to be honest I like the idea that Raph is better in a fight than Leo. It's kind of a 2-way humility check for the both of them. It's a constant reminder that physical prowess isn't the thing that makes for a good leader
Well most people are in agreement that Leo was winning till he saw it was Raph and held back. And even while holding back, leo still would’ve won as seen at 4:52. That was clearly a killing shot, but obviously Leo wasn’t trying to kill his brother so he struck at the side of his head
@@Albino_Basilisk but how do yk he held back?
@@FatalisCataclysm 4:52. Raph didn’t dodge that. Leo missed on purpose. Nuff said
@@Albino_Basiliskhe tilted his head
God this movie was so underrated.
Man this movie is so underrated i mean the art style, animation and especially voice acting are incredibly solid
This was such a samurai moment. From the red lighting, the fighting styles, everything about this scene is perfect.
You know what. The real fight here is the argument Leo and Raph have. It’s such a wonderfully directed scene that’s written perfectly for these two. James Arnold Taylor and Nolan North absolutely killed it with their performances here. They really feel like they were close once and but drifting away by both of their egos.
I never grew up with TMNT, but I do remember watching this movie and this scene sticks out to me the most.
The movie was ahead of its time
Perfect example of animation having absolutely no reason to be so good, this fight between Ralph and Leo is absolutely cinema on par with some of the best rival battles in cinema history.
Best scene when I was a kid , got back to rewatching this scene since the new TMNT movie came out
ngl this movie is better than mutant mayhem
The shot composition in this is amazing. When they were about to square off Ralph was under blue lighting and Leo under red lighting (opposite colors)
From the story, to the dialogue to the writing, even the background shows the conflicting sides but also how they both have good points
I Almost cried when I saw Leo getting kidnapped and raph failing to save him
Even if Raph caught up to them, he most likely would’ve been killed because he’s outnumbered
Leo left the city and was STILL being a vigilante yet he has a problem with Ralph 😂
Leo was being a self righteous hypocrite.
Couldn't have competition
I'm honestly tired of these band wagons accusations on the goats name. If you must know why Leo doesn't trust a unstoppable metal armored "Savior." I suggest you look up their arch nemesis and mabye for a second lets take a look into their lore a bit deeper. Cause as I remember a not very good disguised turtle saved a news reporter from getting jumped in a subway. Then had one just one guy follow him home only for that one guy to tell another metal armor "Savior" where they live. This causes their dad to get locked up and tortured. Their friends house to get burned down and there own to get molly whopped. So this same turtle decides to be on ego time and be on six different news channels, on copies of news papers, and a helicopter over that same turtle isn't that bright. Now mabye that turtle forgot but they are NINJA MUTANT TURTLES and having that exposed to the U.S. mabye isn't good for their family. So being a bit just a bit cautious mabye Leo the goat doesn't want that to happen again and escalate to a never ending run. But honestly if i hear one more person say leo is a egotistical hypocrite imma just copy and paste this cause I ain't having this disrespectful yapping session on the goat.
@@Turboman-kx7cc I'm honestly tired of these band wagons accusations on the goats name. If you must know why Leo doesn't trust a unstoppable metal armored "Savior." I suggest you look up their arch nemesis and mabye for a second lets take a look into their lore a bit deeper. Cause as I remember a not very good disguised turtle saved a news reporter from getting jumped in a subway. Then had one just one guy follow him home only for that one guy to tell another metal armor "Savior" where they live. This causes their dad to get locked up and tortured. Their friends house to get burned down and there own to get molly whopped. So this same turtle decides to be on ego time and be on six different news channels, on copies of news papers, and a helicopter over that same turtle isn't that bright. Now mabye that turtle forgot but they are NINJA MUTANT TURTLES and having that exposed to the U.S. mabye isn't good for their family. So being a bit just a bit cautious mabye Leo the goat doesn't want that to happen again and escalate to a never ending run. But honestly if i hear one more person say leo is a egotistical hypocrite imma just copy and paste this cause I ain't having this disrespectful yapping session on the goat.
@@andycash9143 I'm honestly tired of these band wagons accusations on the goats name. If you must know why Leo doesn't trust a unstoppable metal armored "Savior." I suggest you look up their arch nemesis and mabye for a second lets take a look into their lore a bit deeper. Cause as I remember a not very good disguised turtle saved a news reporter from getting jumped in a subway. Then had one just one guy follow him home only for that one guy to tell another metal armor "Savior" where they live. This causes their dad to get locked up and tortured. Their friends house to get burned down and there own to get molly whopped. So this same turtle decides to be on ego time and be on six different news channels, on copies of news papers, and a helicopter over that same turtle isn't that bright. Now mabye that turtle forgot but they are NINJA MUTANT TURTLES and having that exposed to the U.S. mabye isn't good for their family. So being a bit just a bit cautious mabye Leo the goat doesn't want that to happen again and escalate to a never ending run. But honestly if i hear one more person say leo is a egotistical hypocrite imma just copy and paste this cause I ain't having this disrespectful yapping session on the goat.
I just love how this movie and this scene specifically it's one of the most shocking and deep scene in all TMNT universe (in MY opinion) because in all TMNT version Raph and Leo have this rivality and being opposite sides of the same coin, but in this scene they actually face each other and fight for real, being a truly emotional scene not only for them being a team, but a family. I can understand both of their sides: Leo always was trained to be ther best and always tested his limits, he trained hard to his family and to be a better not only as a leader but a older brother (because yes, it's confirmed that in the 2003, 2007 and most version of TMNT, Leonardo it's the older brother), everything he did was thinking to be a better figure and leading his team and family. Meanwhile Raph, as the second oldest brother never accept Leo's leadership, he fels everybody prefers Leo and as a "shadow" of him, he also wants to be good for himself and his family, he never accept the fact that their aren't the sam as the past and didn't accept to move on like Donnie or Mikey did. I just hate when someone want to be hateful toward Leo or Raph just to defend one of them, BOTH ARE RIGHT, both have their own way to see things, personality and learnings, they are different from each other and their scene was their finally showing this and talking everything they think, it was a big great scene to their characters developments.
This movie it's my favorite one and deserves so much more attention, and I love the turtles version and how they are more mature and serious, but also showing the soft and funny side, as so many others TMNT versions
I was an adult by the time this was released. I was so adamant about seeing another live-action film like the ones I grew up on in the 90s, that I initially wrote this off as a "video game cutscene movie". It wasn't until the ridiculous 2014 film came out that I finally watched this. I didn't realize how serious this project was taken and well animated it was.
Leo wins the hand-to-hand combat by playing on Raph's anger.
Raph wins the test of strength after Leo underestimates how strong he is.
And both brothers stalemate while holding their signature weapons.
They did such a good job to make neither look weak.
That's how you write a script for a hero versus hero fight.
I still can't believe this movie looks this good even after all this time, I love it so much
I think Raph makes good points as well. Leo is a smug bastard at the best of times that needs a healthy serving of humble pie. He's arrogant and just so damn annoying some times. He's like a bad parent that buggers off to do whatever and then comes back thinking they can take the reins again whenever they feel like it. I think that smug arrogant attitude comes from being Splinters favourite. Yes, Splinter says he doesn't have favourites but everyone knows it's not true. No one gets the same amount of support, one on one time or protection as Leo does. Leo can screw up bad and all he gets is "you're the eldest I expect you to try harder next time. You're learning" but when specifically Raphael screws up Splinter can be quite nasty and unfair to him. Donnie gets little attention and Micky gets left to his own devices because of his manic energy Splinter can't stand. Leo is the favourite simply because his and Splinters energies and values line up the most. If that's not a toxic set up for a family, I don't know what is.
And in terms of the direct happenings in this movie, imagine how his brothers feel. The only reason Don and Mike aren't on Raph's side is because they're too non-confrontational and loud as Raph. You don't think those two had their thoughts on doing their own thing and having their own lives for over year and then suddenly it gets interrupted because Leo just decided on a guilty whim to come back. He went off to improve himself, which is a good thing, but just never came back and wasn't likely to ever come back. He literally abandoned his family. It wasn't until April literally fell ass backwards into finding him and told him how things were that he came back, not from loyalty or missing his family but from guilt. Also, who decides what works and what doesn't for people? April and Leo talk about how things are and it's labelled bad simply because they decided it was. Mikey and Don had their own businesses and were doing damn well for themselves but because they're not training and focusing on their own thing, it's bad? Leo decides that his brothers don't have the right priorities and thinks it's perfectly reasonable to come barging in and handed out corrections left and right. He walks into every room thinking he knows better and everyone else should just automatically listen to him, no questions asked. He thinks everyone is helpless without his leadership and tends to have a really uncomfortable view over his position that everyone must bow to his will whether they like, need or want it or not. With this view, he has a borderline toxic and controlling relationship with his brothers. One of the most toxic things he does with alarming regularity is tell his family "I know better than you. You don't know what you're doing so I have to tell you what to do" that's literally the line that domestic violence posters say to watch for to tell if there's abuse going on. And he doesn't even take into account other's input because"I've already thought this plan through so need for you to say anything" and if a plan goes wrong THEN he demands input.
As in other renditions of TMNT, either from his own superiority complex or from Splinters more toxic influences, he tends to parent his brothers and think he's perfectly within his right to talk down to them and hand out punishment like a parent but also kinda bully and harrass them like a brother.
Raph may have his own toxic traits but at least if someone says "hey back off, I don't want your input right now" he does. He doesn't have an insufferable need to be the centre of everything or be in everyone's business. Raph says plain as day in this fight that he wants to lead himself and not anyone else and Leo literal tells him he can't manage leadership. Does Leo just not listen when others speak? Raph doesn't want to lord over others, just have his own autonomy and make his own choices.
Anyway, rant over. Thanks for listening
+ literally forbidding to protect the city while Leo's gone. I mean what did he expect? That unpunished criminals won't return?
Wow. This was the longest yet unnecessary rant ever.
Moral of this long ass story is you don't like Leo and favors Raph.
Good rant and perfectly understandable. The holier than thou types seem to get portrayed as perfect do gooders that can do no wrong and they typically don't even get humbled or punished for it. It's frustrating
Uh uh get some else to read that
even though leo was right… He was being a major hypocrite. He literally was across the world being a vigilante as well. also, the brothers werent allowed to protect NYC while he was gone and they left it to the police?? I mean CMON. at least Raph and Casey were helping out.
I'm honestly tired of these band wagons accusations on the goats name. If you must know why Leo doesn't trust a unstoppable metal armored "Savior." I suggest you look up their arch nemesis and mabye for a second lets take a look into their lore a bit deeper. Cause as I remember a not very good disguised turtle saved a news reporter from getting jumped in a subway. Then had one just one guy follow him home only for that one guy to tell another metal armor "Savior" where they live. This causes their dad to get locked up and tortured. Their friends house to get burned down and there own to get molly whopped. So this same turtle decides to be on ego time and be on six different news channels, on copies of news papers, and a helicopter over that same turtle isn't that bright. Now mabye that turtle forgot but they are NINJA MUTANT TURTLES and having that exposed to the U.S. mabye isn't good for their family. So being a bit just a bit cautious mabye Leo the goat doesn't want that to happen again and escalate to a never ending run. But honestly if i hear one more person say leo is a egotistical hypocrite imma just copy and paste this cause I ain't having this disrespectful yapping session on the goat.
This makes me think of "The Lion King" battle with Simba and Scar battle it out. The reasons are kind of about leadership in this battle with Leo and Raph, but it's also about feeling hurt and betrayed for Leo never coming back home until a year AFTER training. The brotherly love is still there and instead of trying to kill his older brother (like Scar did) he spares him when he realizes he can't do it.
This Leonardo is Sam Cahill & Raphael is Uncle Tommy
this was so freaking awesome back in the day
For 2007 this is so well animated and graphics look surprisingly good for its time.
0:13 Look at this shot and tell me this is not peak TMNT
Unbiased interpretation. Leo dominated in the first fight bc Ralph is strapped up in a bunch of crap and has a helmet that clouds his peripheral vision.
Before the second fight, in a moment of arrogance, Leo directly challenged Ralph to a fight by claiming he’s better than him. A controlled leader that “understands his team” also knows what provokes them.
Ralph accepted his challenge and won the fight. Leo wanted that fight just as much as Ralph, and he lost fair and square. Leo didn’t really “hold back”, but obviously neither of them wanted to kill each other. But to suggest that Leo wasn’t trying to assert his dominance is ludicrous.
I agree.
While Leo has superior discipline and skill, Raph has superior strength.
Both aren’t necessarily better or worse than the other. They just have different strengths and weaknesses. However when working together they cancel out there weaknesses and amplify their strength which is why the turtles are unstoppable when working together.
I would technically disagree the scene where Leo puts the sword up to raphs neck he could’ve ended the fight right then and there quickly I’d like to imagine in a way he was holding back but he was trying to win a certain way due to his cockiness which gave raph the win
But at the same time I agree with you he agreed to a fight and lost regardless even if he was or was not holding back he still lost
@@saturnamused2434 this is the most cope shit I’ve ever seen
@@chrishardin9774 not really if you knew how swords work dumbass
In my opinion. This right here is the Best TMNT movie.
Nick’s version is alright. I won’t say its great.
The rest of the movie may be mid, but this scene makes it all worth it.
Raph really just felt abandoned and wounded by Leo. Imagine going a WHOLE YEAR without hearing from a loved one. For all Raph knew, Leo could have been lost or dead or hurt in the jungle.
So when he returned, totally fine and definitely healthy enough to keep in touch, it made him angry that Leo would cause him so much worry and then just pop back into their lives. So, Raph lashed out to conceal his hurt. He probably believed he didn't matter enough to Leo to keep in contact with him. 😢
"More importantly I am better than you"
To Quote another wise master. "That is why you fail"
You should never ever have that mindset that you are better than your own brothers, let alone say that to them. It sets you up for failure. Neither of them were winners in this battle and it really showed. Leo thinking this was the best way to get through to Raph, Ralp almost killing Leo. The only thing that was good about that fight was that they both learned lessons.
What exactly did Leo learn? Raph shoudve learned his anger is useless. What should Leo have learned?
@@artieo5339 Leo was also angry and it really showed considering what he said, and the fact he decided to engage Ralph 'often the muscle' of the team in a contest of pure brute strength with the weapon lock, against Sai's and got his swords broken. I think they both learned anger is not useful.
@@blastchambers2150 Leo isn’t angry, he’s worn out with the insubordination and disrespect from Raph.
Leo gets blamed by Raph for not coming back or “abandoning them.” Then he gets blamed by Raph for coming back and following instructions from their father/sensei. He isn’t angry he’s exhausted with Raphs poor judgment and poor attitude. All Leo is doing is standing up for himself and his leadership value. No where in anything he did showed he was angry in anyway.
@@artieo5339 @Artie O he is pretty angry considering the stab he took at Ralphs head, and the lack of judgement he had in that fight leading him to loose it, as well as the things he said. Finally the reasons you just stated would be enough to cause anger as well. That's what this whole fight is. Two brothers working out anger badly.
@@blastchambers2150 you’re delusional if you think that stab to the head was anything other than Leo proving he’s better. That wasn’t a move because Leo was angry. You can clearly see who’s angry and who’s not. Leo says very very calmly, “don’t do this Ralph” to which Raph say in a very angry way, “I’m done taking orders”.
Uncle Iroh's voice as Splinter is perfect. I really like the voice actor.
And from some reason this version of splinter looks like the cat from the cheetos commercial
@@anthonyeverett1627 lol 😂 that’s so true!
@@anthonyeverett1627 my grandma says Splinter looks like a lion
When I was 10 this was on par with dbz fighting scenes. Unreal
Leos mistake was saying "I'm better than you."
Fact leo is better than Raph
Leo is just better because he's the leader and fights concentrately. Raph is far more better when it comes to brute strength and rage fight.
@@briancastronuevo2117 Then why did he lose?
@@ssppeeaarr then why did he lose?
@@adamcydricmargallo6255 then why did Leo lose?
Also, Rapheal coming to a dead end and the camera showing he has nowhere to go but down is kind of simialur to when Scar realizes he's on the edge of the cliff and he has no choice but to fight or beg for mercy.
If you pay attention, you can quite tell how Leo wasn't at full skill on the second round. In the first fight, he dodged every hit from Raphs chain attacks and blocked all his punches except one and punched Raph like 6 feet in the air. In the 2nd round, his movements didn't seem as fast as before and Raph ended up breaking Leo's swords and was close to killing him.
Leo and Raph in this movie were so awesome. This movie deserves a part two.
Yo a fellow beyblade fan wassup !
@@Luckykougga Nothing much. What's up?
I love this movie. I was around 6 when this was made, I'm 21 now and I get nostalgia from this.
😂 same top 5 TMNT movie
Same man, this scene stayed in my mind for a week as a kid. Even today as an adult, it's still awesome.
We definitely deserved that sequel
This battle gives me such a strong Nightwing vs Red Hood vibe.
How normal brothers fight: **yelling and potential punching/slapping**
How Turtle brothers fight: **tries to kill each other**
Cut from that Dante Vergil brotherly love Cloth
If you're going to do a leo-raph rivalry, do it like this;
Raph has a reason to feel angry, he felt abandoned. Once Leo came back, suddenly, Raph's coping mechanism was wrong, his alter-ego was a bad guy, and in his mind, its all leo's fault.
Seen this movie yesterday. and DAMN…. I LOVE this scene. Very short but so damn epic! Why the hell, we never get a sequel to this?!
The animation studio went bankrupt after their box office flop with the Astro Boy animated film.
Better question, why are there still people hating on this movie?! As a kid, sure the animation studio filed for bankruptcy because of the box-office failure of “Astro Boy” (which, I also have a soft spot for.), but I remember loving it so much! I remember being mesmerized by not only the animation, but the music, the voice-acting and the sound design. Sure, the whole story of the Turtles fighting the 4 stone warriors and freeing the ancient monsters and closing a portal to another dimension, sure it’s a ridiculous plot, but since it is an animated movie, I feel like the story is supposed to be ludicrous and silly, but for me, THEY EMBRACED IT!!! And they got the right people to voice the Turtles!! James Arnold Taylor as Leonardo, Nolan North as Raphael, Mikey Kelly as Michelangelo and Mitchel Whitfield as Donatello? Perfect casting!! So yeah, I don’t care what you people say about this movie, I dug the hell out of this film! It’s such an underrated gem.
I love this scene so much it’s so well done
Man this movie 15 years later I still get the feeling of how awesome the animation is
3:05
Raph: You thought The Shredder worked alone, Leo?
7:15 My reaction to Spider-Man: BTSV being indefinitely delayed
Literally Nightwing VS Red Hood 💙❤️🦇
Yeah this is way better than ninja turtles mayhem 2023. 2007 tmnt was more serious and I liked it way more.
This movie is extremely underrated I watched it on Netflix
I love how in the next scene of the movie, Splinter implies that if Raphael learned to be more compassionate and managed to focus his emotions in a goal, he would be the only leader the team would need, surpassing Leo in both fighting skills and leadership
This movie was my childhood the animation had me stunned and still does to this day such a good movie 🔥
A Staple of my Childhood. Yeah, 2007 did bring me the light of day when this movie came out. Just 4 months before Total Drama Island, even though this show premiered on July from that same year.
Best movie
Looks like Leo got shell shocked.
😂underrated comment for sure.
I remember watching this when i was younger i loved it honestly
"trust me. you dont wanna do this."
Don't feel too bad Raph, you almost killed your brother but he almost did the exact same thing to you. 4:52
Facts
Such a great movie. Never understood this type of interplay between these 2 until I saw this movie. It is very genuine and the writing was great
Okay seriously can all you leo stans just stop already. Leo lost, Raph won fair and square.
Leo wasn't holding back, Leo was cocky and arrogant, and because of that he underestimated Raph, and got wrecked.
Faaaaaaaacts
I’m not privy to either character so trying to be unbiased I’d like to give my opinion
Leo’s biggest flaws as a character from my POV is that while he is a dedicated student to Master Splinter he’s also very rigid towards Splinters doctrine and in some sense you can criticize that rather than learn from Splinter he sometimes repeats rather than substantially understands the words of his father
Leo does have a bit of arrogance in being Splinters number 1 student hence when he recites lessons from Splinter in a very arrogant manner
But Leo was shown to have a lot of control over the situation when he thought of his opponent as some unknown vigilante
When he realizes it’s Raphael his emotions begin to interfere in his control and focus over the situation
Raphs fatal flaw is that his anger leads to often unforeseen consequences though that doesn’t mean it’s a bad quality of his rather it’s his passion that makes him such a loyal and loving brother albeit it comes out filtered with all that anger
Dude it's a fact. Before he knew it was raph he was dominating. And u can tell with the way he fought that he didn't want to. And he was calm. He was only caught off guard with his swords breaking.
Imagine being this terrible at understanding movie scenes
@@OhNoTheFace imagine being a mindless Leo stan. You salty because your favorite turtle got put in his place. 🤣
The fact that this movie didn't get it's trilogy is a crime
This movie was on the level of the first TMNT movie
The story, the characters, the animation
And it gave us the best fight ever
Leo and Raph going at it is still incredible
This is my all-time favorite teenage mutant Ninja turtles movie it's the most grounded realistic and relatable we have ever seen any of these characters the writing here between the characters is phenomenal and the slow deterioration of the relationship between Raphael and Leonardo to the point where it spills out into violence is just fantastic writing one of the most tragic but honest portrayals of sibling rivalry gone wrong caused by a sense of abandonment by a loved one this movie will always be special to me
This movie was greatly underrated, it some of the primo va you could get, Patrick Stewart, Sarah Gellar, Chris Evans, James Arnold Tay, Nolan North and of course the late great Mako.
Best Tmnt movie hands down
James Arnold taylor and nolan north were both fantastic as leonardo and Raphael.
This movie was so sick I still have it on DVD
One of the greatest animated fights of all time in history!
This has to be the best film of all of them!
Leo mistake was saying he's better than raplh. Not true. All of them have weaknesses. Leo was being to cocky raplh shut him up. Leo didn't hold back and no he didn't change his blade, he firmly grip it and was ready to strike. Raplh is the strongest turtle and he fights like a warrior. Leo is the better leader overall. Raplh weakness is his anger but deep down he loves all his brother and will do whatever to protect them. When leo said he was better than raplh, it sounded like a challenge and raplh wanted to prove a point and he felt bad afterward.
Valid points but I don’t know if I’d say leo wasn’t holding back,I think he was tbh. In the first round Leo edged him out in battle,it wasn’t until he realized he was fighting his brother,mental nerf,like you can clearly see the change in tone and body language as well.Leonardo was for sure cocky in the scene,acting like Raphael wasn’t getting experience and training as well.But I do believe he was holding back against him,Leo only battled Raphael because he knew Raph wouldn’t let him leave without trying to make him eat his words😂Raphael is easily the most physically strongest yes,but a better warrior? Kind of a long shot imo,I do respect your points about their respective weaknesses though.
@@javonharris9295 Raphael fought like a warrior died as a warrior. The last ronin. 😆
@@LorSuefong he fought a horde of foot clan members and traded killing blows with karai in the end. Leonardo did the same shit in the 2003 series,arguably with more formidable opponents,only difference is he didn’t die. I see your point but bringing that up did nothing In all honesty. Dying a warrior doesn’t make you better than someone else who lived to tell the story. Though In the ronin comic they all bit the dust so💔🤷🏽♂️
@@javonharris9295 Leo is the better leader no doubt. But in fighting. All raplh.
@@LorSuefong Funny he did more than anyone else did. They all just died like nothing except for raph LMFAO
Nightwing: "Don't do this, Jason."
Red Hood: "I'm done with mercy."
Over on DC, the same thing going on between Nightwing and Red Hood
Your not wrong 😭
@@AtomicOwl This Leonardo is Captain Sam Cahill & this Raphael is Uncle Tommy
Round 1 : Raphael lost however that fight came with certain factors like Raphael being restricted in a metal suit + he was already busy crime fighting before fighting Leo
Round 2 : Leo lost because he was being arrogant and didnt see that his brother wasnt a push over. Just 1 silly mistake for leo was all Raphael needed.
However i do believe that Leo is the one with most potential and is calm and thinks before he acts and therefore he is the leader.
But this Leo isnt prime Leo if you get me,but we all know he will get there
Another thing to absolutely consider for round 2 is Leo holding back. He had a clean shot when Raph was backed into a corner, and didn't take it, just wanting to send the message that he could win, but doesn't want to hurt Raph.