Timestamps ⏱ 0:00 Intro 1:31 Preheresy Design Breakdown 8:55 Preheresy Design Analysis 11:06 Preheresy Art 15:24 Preheresy Design vs Lore 22:01 Preheresy Final Notes 22:42 Post Heresy Design Breakdown 34:45 Post Heresy Design Analysis 37:17 Post Heresy Art 41:47 Post Heresy Design vs Lore 47:59 Post Heresy Final Notes 49:03 Redesign 54:31 Outro 55:03 End Credit Joke There is an error on one of the slides, however this was the only error in our review and if we had to fix it and export and reupload that would have made the video several hours late so we had to make a choice. We have a very hard time making videos this long with in a week. Thank you for your understanding and have an excellent week and if you can't tell which slide it is I guess it wasn't that big a deal but if you saw which one in was leave the time code as a comment here.
Kind of fun to compare the Night Lords to the Blood Angeles. The Night Lords are kind of cowardly but they dress like vampires that torture and kill for fun, while the Blood Angeles are vampires dressing like angels who are trying to suppress their blood thirst even though it's part of their nature.
Having just come off of my umpteenth reread of the Night Lord Omnibus, Talos is very much portrayed as a strong (modern) anti-villian archetype. You nailed it, and with that, he's "willing and able to do the dirty work" point. It's what made me change my opinion from anti-hero to anti-villian. One doesn't need to be heroic, to be the protagonist. Joe Abercrombie has solidified that with his literary work.
Glad to hear you liked Sunny's take I will show her in the morning when she is awake. We release 2am our time but honestly a lot of credit has to go to the artist for that one as that was their interpretation of him - Cal
@@damianallen4964 Nice I'm glad I got it right. I think when you look as scary and towering like Talos but then you add a halo it shows 2 contradicting ideas you've got a scary dude...but he's supposed to be angelic? So that can only mean he's not to be judged by he's looks and he's probably a terrifying person but doing good ~Sunny
This episode was a major help for re-evaluating my design of basically „loyalist Nightlords but without the torture fetish“. I will go back and try to incorporate kill countings, some skulls and maybe bones into my Gargoyles
Well I think it's basic inference, its the sherlock homes thing, once you break things down you can find out a lot. There design says a lot she has some context around the legions knows they are sent out to conquer and then just starts putting the pieces together. I am sure if you guys had the design knowledge she did, you would be able to do the same - Cal
I really think the artist deserves a lot credit Morten Bak Pøhlsgaard, I think without there amazing work Sunny wouldn't have been able to get as much as she did off it, there was a reason I chose that piece of art! - Cal
The color analysis of the Pre Heresy Night Lords was so spot on. When Sunni was running the through the negative traits it was so spot on. The 40k Night Lords image 1 was causing me seizures just remembering painting all that Chaos trim. I have stopped painting Chaos marines so many times because I hate painting all that darn trim. Solid overall analysis. I am surprised on how well GW did with matching color psychology with the Lore of the Space Marine Legions. I agree that the non Chaos god aligned Chaos Space Marines are fairly copy and paste. Good video.
@@clamus68 it's important to note that there are different teams who influence a final product in a company you've got artists and marketing working together and art may often be seen as an expressive thing but art is always trying to communicate something to us and so there has to be certain understanding of how things come off too so I am not surprised that GW does use colour psychology as part of their design process ~Sunny
It’s truly incredible how much sunny can infer about the lore from the design. With the black and white photo, they’re very much the heroes of their own story (uniting the legion) but are absolutely villains - someone mentioned it on the comments but they’re more akin to anti-villains than anti-heroes Kudos
Great video. I honestly like Night Lords as renegade forse rather than pure chaos. In Night Lords omnibus they shun chaos and mutation. They are still villians and fight Imperium but not in the same way as most of chaos with demons and magic. Traitors, not chaos worshippers is the characterization i like to stick with when discussing or making an army of Night Lords. Plus the entire aesthetic of them is so on point they feel cool. They transcended Edginess from stupid to stupid cool in their lore and design , even without overtly chaos influences.
Night lords having regular armour and even other peoples armour does make sense because theyre scavengers. They dont have anyone to make their stuff so they steal and take it. Tho i can see them using skin and bones as a way to seperate them from just having regular armour
You forgot one thing that connects them to vampires. There is a strong Dracula influence, it's just that they are inspired by Vlad The Impaler, the historical ruler, instead of the fictional version of him. Btw, something you forgot to mention is that like Vlad they have a slavic influence.
that is my commission of my Night lords 17:26 I’m glad to see it be used. My night Lord is wearing 30K armor cause most night lords are pirates and raiders so the scavenged a lot of there gear . My group of night lords are hunting 40K blood angels cause they are nemesis
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow So the night lord you see is Dathus Von Lahnstine or know as the crimson count. A Nostroman high born gang prince brought to the 8th. He was once the Captain of the Sixth Terror company which is now known as the Crimson Court warband. Here we have my Chaos Raptor Lord stalking his prey the Blood Angels scouts as a prelude to what is to come this Shrine world dedicated to Sanguinus as you can see in the background. Now Dathus is based off my kit bashed Harrken model to a Night lord Raptor. This armor is his pre heresy armor that he kept maintained during the long war. I will have a more modern 40K art work with more warped Chaos design coming out due to his old armor becoming to damaged for repairs
Oh the reason his claw is red is know as the sinners red a punishment to gangers that they will die when there boss says they are done. His red was given to the former captain that died and became a Dreadnaught so he doesn’t have to worry about his punishment no more. He is also loyal to Konrad’s teachings that the imperium is there and will take revenge to claim what his rightfully his
@@kamiwriterleonardo6345 yeah!!!!! It was 1000% unexpected it was a little spoopy because we were recording at night ~Sunny She literally grabbed on to me and said "IS IT A GHOST?!" - Cal
I think there's some truth to the idea that a lot of modern Night Lords look kind of generic Chaos, but to a degree I think actually generic Chaos looks quite Night Lord. Obviously generic Chaos doesn't feature the bat wings, but the trim, the skulls, the iconography and even sometimes the flayed skins (which honestly I could live without) are all fairly core parts of the regular Chaos look. Basic Chaos designs are way more Night Lord than they are Iron Warrior, Word Bearer or Alpha Legion. Also, there's a kind of irony to the fact that the explictly vampire-coded legion is not actually vampiric in any way shape or form, whereas the legion of actual vampires are decorated as angels instead!
I would say six one way half a dozen the other you see when Sunny pulled that image from the Iron Warriors and how they basically looked like they were identical except they had colour swap. That is the point she is getting at because we can only go off what the company does in fact I branch out a lot in the art area to fan made creations because some of the time they capture it better. And yes I can't say to much on that other bit that's why I have to stop... because you know who comes after the eighth... - Cal
@@ShockArcl1te well a mate of ours says he finds it easier to paint the trims by just base coating the whole model gold then fill in the coloured parts after ~Sunny
"Check out the Omnibus," like I didn't just finish it for the 3rd time this past year, I just love how plain evil and weak they are, the complete opposite of what a Space Marine should be. The observations made were spot on I think
I think the honest answer is... they just put more work into the Horus Heresy designs you had to put a lot of work into it because you're not sure if it will sell or not so you have to make an AMAZING product... people will buy 40k regardless... I think they can make great things with 40k but, they need to put the work in - Cal
I think it has a lot to do with the colour pallette used between 30k and 40k. The dark blue and silver gives us a cold, dark look that implies the terror that they represent. The gold/bronze trim gives them a warmth that almost spoils the vibe.
I mean the idea of nightlords are being chased off by blood angels is really on brand. it’s happened so many times it’s a trope at this point. They use the I am a monster imagery to make themselves scarier they sre are a person doing there saddest to prepend they are a monster , even in contrast blood angels are at there core monsters doing everything they can to try and be humans.
I remember barely being half awake reading this comment during the night and being like ha that's a good comment and then falling back asleep. Well you will get to see what we think of the blood angels soon enough only a month away now... - Cal
It was very Fun! to review... but I have to say much more fun that what is quickly no longer becoming my favourite legion the Dark Angels, their player base has sucked a lot of the fun with their comment and the Night Lords people have been awesome, they may take the thrown from the Emperor's Children as most chill dudes... It's weird how the Chaos people seem more fun - Cal
Great job guys, most interesting & entertaining. Something to add which is not 40K related, but from Battletech, is that House Steiner has the same colour scheme as the Night Lords & they are considered "good guys" in a setting where everyone is fighting everyone.
@@thepiratepenguin4465 design elements are also a key factor on top of colour choice, so with battle tech they probably come off as professional because they might resemble suits ~Sunny
@@thepiratepenguin4465 I would love to... but I am not knowledgeable enough about it. But one day I would love to do a design vs lore with someone on it! - Cal
Cal: Today's topic is... The 8th legion Sunny: Oh, boy, the Edgelords! Cal: Nah they're the Nightlords Sunny: Right... What did I say? Great ideas for the redesign btw! It never really occurred to me just how copy/paste their post heresy design was.
27:10 In-universe, Belissarius Cawl did take inspiration from the Mark IV armour when designing Mark X (Primaris) armour's helmet along with other previous models for other parts of the armour.
I’d love to see one of these on the iron hands. I’ve recently been diving into their lore since pick how I want to paint my marines, and I’m just constantly left sad since they have so little lore. I was really liking what they tried to do with the Kardan Stronos storyline so it’s a pity it cot axed before it was done.
I will "blame" the artist for that Sunny's analysis is fantastic but without the art she would have never uttered that hero comment. And thanks for the compliment 😊 - Cal
I love this series from you guys! Immediately fell in love with it since the emperor’s children video. I was just curious, as a sisters player, would you guys ever like to delve deep into these videos or lore wise with the different orders? Again thanks !
@@danielenon2012 currently we are focusing on doing all the space marine legions in numbered order, but I think it may not be a bad idea to do the other factions as a continuation after that ~Sunny
Nice I was wondering when you guys were going to do a video on this Legion as it's design is quite unique. Sons of our father stand in midnight clad we bring the night.
Mmm, a design vs lore video in the morning is my coffee 😁 Would you guys ever consider doing an influences of 40K video? Tyranids = Xenomorphs, Necrons = Terminators, Sisters of Battle = My girlfriend, and so on. Would love to see what you guys think of xenos races, their influences and how effective GW were at taking something at making it their own. Have a lovely week Cal and Sunny.
I think the post-Heresy image analysis suffers from the Night Lords' real lack of identity before Aaron Demski-Bowden got a hold of them. It's through his descriptions that the Night Lords really gained a unique and evocative design language with scavenged armor and trophies. Before that they very much were just generic CSM.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow It looks like you used mostly older codex artwork, newer Night Lords art is more in the ADB-described style and less cartoonish. Even the Heresy-era artwork was pretty sanitized compared to what's officially out there. Not nearly enough bloody hands hanging from chains and hooks lol. As someone who loves all flavors of CSM, they definitely have a unique style at this point that modelling is slowly catching up to.
Showing Talos and saying “he’s a hero” hurt my soul after reading the omnibus. One of the greatest quotes from Taloswhen asked what he wanted to be… “I wanted to be a hero, and look how that turned out…”
Yes quite a few people have brought it up but honestly I have to give credit to the artist. Without their amazing work Sunny wouldn't have come to that conclusion - Cal
Oooooh now you're talking about my favorite legion 😈 . Been painting up post heresy Night Lords for over a year now. Best vibe of all the traitor legions hands down
You had mentioned how the miniatures have some of the elements (like the flayed skin or whatnot) that the templates didn't have (because GW is boring and lazy probably) and i think it could be cool to implement some images of the miniatures when discussing the designs. Like showing off the special Nightlords dreadnought with the giant skull for a head and the bat wings across the chest and like a literal corpse stapled onto the chest of the dreadnought or like the new'ish Nightlords kill team with the guy with a full-on skin apron or a space marine corpse hooked up to a banner
I mean, it's nice to get kit that captures the feel of NLs, though one of them has feeling of mall ninja with that "hoodie", though I hope there are other heads to choose from
I'm a Nightlord player and you guys were on point. However Nightlords are also known for stealing armor off the fallen, chaos or otherwise. They skin and wear their victims which you covered. I play Necrons, Deathguard, Demons and Blood Andels too. Do you folks have a discord where fans can share their personal color schemes? It might be interesting for future content ideas to use your color knowledge to gage your fan's art as well. Love your channel!
00:01:33 Are y'all viewing a reversed photo? The chapter emblem is on their left pauldron, skull's on their right knee, and the shield's on their left knee. But she says the opposite.
I really like the body horror of your designs, but most night lords after heresy dont follow chaos. They are more like renegades than chaos, still cool designs ❤
Some do but that's why Sunny's redesign with Captain Choppers was just more horror rather than body horror with the blood. We tried to show both ideas - Cal
The Primaris design co-opted the mk iv helm for its entire front look, and I hate it. Also, it's most likely that the reason it looked like primaris is due to it being more-or-less just a primaris template redrawn to more resemble the Mk IV. You can tell from the proportions and posing, as they look very similar to the primaris templates. Some good ways to differentiate though, are: The Primaris has ball-joints on the ankles (out of the firstborn patterns, only the Mk VIII has those), the round kneepads are conjoined to the greaves as a single solid piece and have the extra fin around the upper half of the edge (only one firstborn pattern's greaves were constructed similarly, that being the Mk VI with its greaves actually replacing the kneepads), the primaris armour also has solid abdominal plates and a raised pectoral design on the cuirass (firstborn cuirasses were typically smooth, rounded surfaces, more reminiscent of 14th century cuirasses) along with three recesses on either side of the cuirass, a larger gorget (though unlike that of the Mk VIII, the Mk X is more open, allowing for greater helmet diversity), the thighs and forearms have awkward raised surfaces, there's additional plates hanging off the belt on either side (as far as I can tell, a trait it shares with the Mk VIII), the helmet has those weird ear hoods, the visor is flatter on the face and has a more narrow shape to it, it has smaller eyes, and the power pack has additional plating on the thrusters and a dome on the back. Meanwhile, the Mk IV has simpler ankles, hat-shaped kneepads that are separate from the greaves, smoother thighs and forearms, no additional plating on the belt, lots of exposed power cabling over the chest, the cuirass dips down to cover the abdomen, forearm plates extending over the backs of the wrists, the visor has more of a slope and in some cases even has a small vox grill like the Mk VII's, lacks the ear hoods, and the power pack has less armour on the thrusters. But yeah, I've been looking at Space Marine power armour since like, 2013/2014? And I was around to see the day the Primaris were introduced, so I might just be more obsessive about these details.
Thank you very much my man! But I would say the credit goes to the designers and artists because they used the right elements to Portray things properly ~Sunny
I think the main issue with the post heresy arts is the fact that they are based on actual miniatures. That means that if the ACTUAL MODELS dont look like night lords and dont have upgrade sprues like their loyalist cousins, the artwork will picture them as a generic chaos marine with their legion colours. That applies for all the undivided legions. There are some exceptions, Alpha Legion has scales, for example, but they could be painted on the actual model. But because there arent any official upgrades for their respective iconography, symbols etc. the artwork looks like a copy-paste.
I notice that you come at these designs 30k>40k but that isn’t the order they were done irl. Some take influence from 80s hair metal bands, others from influences a quarter century later! And that was still a decade ago! So many of the designs aren’t because that was they were on model but because that was the edition of warhammer and that style across the board. That edition has one set of plastic models for all csm? Everything chaos looks the same that edition
So you may have noticed much later in the video when we have our very first Night Lord I point out that, that is what they looked like when they first appeared. I know that is how they first appeared however, I would say the reason that the 30k always look better than the 40k is they just haven't put the work into the 40k lore/art in a long time. See for Horus Heresy they had to put that work into the art to get people in. I think if they put that level of cohesive effort into the 40k I think it would be different - Cal
As for redesign I get you would like to push the psychology horror and I'm all for that, I guess it would be to me like Tzeench/Slannesh but I'd really rather them lean into a warp deity that wasn't one of the major gods. To me and with the fate of Konrad and the whole idea that the Primarchs have a warp born soul I'd love it if Conrad was warp entity of dread and sadism. He'd be relentless and utterly mercilessly as he takes his time breaking down his prey, on all levels possible breaking them one layer at a time their dreams, hopes aspirations, their bounds, their families, their self worth and esteem until nothing is left.
48:00 il just throw this out here... so the nightlords vampire is motive is kinda of a thing, they arent vampire but they are meant to be like vampires... 40k was Orginnaly a experiment of making future sci fi warhammer fantasy, with a lot of inspiration form different places. space wolfs are very obviously related to the sons of ulric, so night lords got a lot of there early design form the vampire count faction, especially the winged bat motive.
Nope that's one of the old school marks of armour, but it is drawn in a primarius way for some reason but yeah, that is the helmet the primarius use - Cal
She's 100% accurate with the template remark, those are just there to show new players different ways they can paint their chaos marines. Not a good representation of how night lords specifically look. Edit: Other than the lightning.
Timestamps ⏱
0:00 Intro
1:31 Preheresy Design Breakdown
8:55 Preheresy Design Analysis
11:06 Preheresy Art
15:24 Preheresy Design vs Lore
22:01 Preheresy Final Notes
22:42 Post Heresy Design Breakdown
34:45 Post Heresy Design Analysis
37:17 Post Heresy Art
41:47 Post Heresy Design vs Lore
47:59 Post Heresy Final Notes
49:03 Redesign
54:31 Outro
55:03 End Credit Joke
There is an error on one of the slides, however this was the only error in our review and if we had to fix it and export and reupload that would have made the video several hours late so we had to make a choice. We have a very hard time making videos this long with in a week. Thank you for your understanding and have an excellent week and if you can't tell which slide it is I guess it wasn't that big a deal but if you saw which one in was leave the time code as a comment here.
That picture of Talos and calling him a hero. Brought me back to his answer why he wanted to become a space marine in the 1st place.
She was dead on with that Talos description. It's exactly how he views himself.
I think that the artist deserves a lot of credit too - Cal
"they look like people who could extort" i am crying
Sunny does do some funnys at times - Cal
Kind of fun to compare the Night Lords to the Blood Angeles. The Night Lords are kind of cowardly but they dress like vampires that torture and kill for fun, while the Blood Angeles are vampires dressing like angels who are trying to suppress their blood thirst even though it's part of their nature.
That is why I had to stop in the video talking because I was about to spoil the blood angels - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Aha good thinking, haven't gotten that far yet.
Yep they are up next but Sunny has gotten wise to a lot of things now - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow clever like a raptor. Will be fun to hear what she thinks of them.
Yo the bloods of los angeles are no joke og fr 😂
If talos heard people call him a hero I think he would cry
Maybe, I don't know 😞 - Cal
Having just come off of my umpteenth reread of the Night Lord Omnibus, Talos is very much portrayed as a strong (modern) anti-villian archetype. You nailed it, and with that, he's "willing and able to do the dirty work" point. It's what made me change my opinion from anti-hero to anti-villian. One doesn't need to be heroic, to be the protagonist. Joe Abercrombie has solidified that with his literary work.
Glad to hear you liked Sunny's take I will show her in the morning when she is awake. We release 2am our time but honestly a lot of credit has to go to the artist for that one as that was their interpretation of him - Cal
@@damianallen4964 Nice I'm glad I got it right. I think when you look as scary and towering like Talos but then you add a halo it shows 2 contradicting ideas you've got a scary dude...but he's supposed to be angelic? So that can only mean he's not to be judged by he's looks and he's probably a terrifying person but doing good ~Sunny
This episode was a major help for re-evaluating my design of basically „loyalist Nightlords but without the torture fetish“. I will go back and try to incorporate kill countings, some skulls and maybe bones into my Gargoyles
Its amazing how on point with her analysis Sunny is. That guess with night lords being like mob was incredible
Well I think it's basic inference, its the sherlock homes thing, once you break things down you can find out a lot. There design says a lot she has some context around the legions knows they are sent out to conquer and then just starts putting the pieces together. I am sure if you guys had the design knowledge she did, you would be able to do the same - Cal
they from gangs
Talos said he only wanted to be a hero. Hearing someone call him such is nice without knowing the background
I really think the artist deserves a lot credit Morten Bak Pøhlsgaard, I think without there amazing work Sunny wouldn't have been able to get as much as she did off it, there was a reason I chose that piece of art! - Cal
12:25
Talos being called a hero would have made him proud
The color analysis of the Pre Heresy Night Lords was so spot on. When Sunni was running the through the negative traits it was so spot on. The 40k Night Lords image 1 was causing me seizures just remembering painting all that Chaos trim. I have stopped painting Chaos marines so many times because I hate painting all that darn trim. Solid overall analysis. I am surprised on how well GW did with matching color psychology with the Lore of the Space Marine Legions. I agree that the non Chaos god aligned Chaos Space Marines are fairly copy and paste. Good video.
Thank you so much we are really glad you enjoyed it, we put a lot of effort in - Cal
Have you tried using liquid mask or cutting some mask tape to fit?
@@clamus68 it's important to note that there are different teams who influence a final product in a company you've got artists and marketing working together and art may often be seen as an expressive thing but art is always trying to communicate something to us and so there has to be certain understanding of how things come off too so I am not surprised that GW does use colour psychology as part of their design process ~Sunny
@@rutgaurxi7314 a mate of ours told us that he starts off by base coating the whole thing gold then base coat all the coloured areas after that ~Sunny
What do you mean copy and paste?
It’s truly incredible how much sunny can infer about the lore from the design.
With the black and white photo, they’re very much the heroes of their own story (uniting the legion) but are absolutely villains - someone mentioned it on the comments but they’re more akin to anti-villains than anti-heroes
Kudos
A lot of credit has to go to the artist! Without that artwork I don't think Sunny would have gotten there but she is very sharp - Cal
Sunny has amazing artistic and narrative/thematic analysis. I can't wait to see how well she does next time.
I genuinely feel like your videos are steadily becoming better and better everytime. Loved your analysis, keep it up!
Thanks I am glad you think so - Cal
I would be interested to see/hear reactions to the new Kill Team models. They seem to have more of the terror troop elements.
Hmm maybe a short but I don't think we will be doing a full episode on them - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow totally, not a full video, but I'd be curious about both your thoughts
We have it here at home but it's for a client - Cal
Great video. I honestly like Night Lords as renegade forse rather than pure chaos. In Night Lords omnibus they shun chaos and mutation. They are still villians and fight Imperium but not in the same way as most of chaos with demons and magic. Traitors, not chaos worshippers is the characterization
i like to stick with when discussing or making an army of Night Lords. Plus the entire aesthetic of them is so on point they feel cool. They transcended Edginess from stupid to stupid cool in their lore and design , even without overtly chaos influences.
Nostramo outside cities was triba, Krieg Acerbus was from a tribe where they got scars on their mouths to show them being of age.
Night lords having regular armour and even other peoples armour does make sense because theyre scavengers. They dont have anyone to make their stuff so they steal and take it. Tho i can see them using skin and bones as a way to seperate them from just having regular armour
You forgot one thing that connects them to vampires. There is a strong Dracula influence, it's just that they are inspired by Vlad The Impaler, the historical ruler, instead of the fictional version of him.
Btw, something you forgot to mention is that like Vlad they have a slavic influence.
that is my commission of my Night lords 17:26 I’m glad to see it be used. My night Lord is wearing 30K armor cause most night lords are pirates and raiders so the scavenged a lot of there gear . My group of night lords are hunting 40K blood angels cause they are nemesis
@@adrianmartinez-rivera651 I'm glad this video has brought you to us! Could you tell us more about the art briefing? ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow So the night lord you see is Dathus Von Lahnstine or know as the crimson count. A Nostroman high born gang prince brought to the 8th. He was once the Captain of the Sixth Terror company which is now known as the Crimson Court warband. Here we have my Chaos Raptor Lord stalking his prey the Blood Angels scouts as a prelude to what is to come this Shrine world dedicated to Sanguinus as you can see in the background. Now Dathus is based off my kit bashed Harrken model to a Night lord Raptor. This armor is his pre heresy armor that he kept maintained during the long war. I will have a more modern 40K art work with more warped Chaos design coming out due to his old armor becoming to damaged for repairs
Oh the reason his claw is red is know as the sinners red a punishment to gangers that they will die when there boss says they are done. His red was given to the former captain that died and became a Dreadnaught so he doesn’t have to worry about his punishment no more. He is also loyal to Konrad’s teachings that the imperium is there and will take revenge to claim what his rightfully his
Very fitting that in the Night Lords video, they experience a blackout mid recording XD
@@kamiwriterleonardo6345 yeah!!!!! It was 1000% unexpected it was a little spoopy because we were recording at night ~Sunny
She literally grabbed on to me and said "IS IT A GHOST?!" - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Truly an "Ave Dominus Nox" moment
I think there's some truth to the idea that a lot of modern Night Lords look kind of generic Chaos, but to a degree I think actually generic Chaos looks quite Night Lord. Obviously generic Chaos doesn't feature the bat wings, but the trim, the skulls, the iconography and even sometimes the flayed skins (which honestly I could live without) are all fairly core parts of the regular Chaos look. Basic Chaos designs are way more Night Lord than they are Iron Warrior, Word Bearer or Alpha Legion.
Also, there's a kind of irony to the fact that the explictly vampire-coded legion is not actually vampiric in any way shape or form, whereas the legion of actual vampires are decorated as angels instead!
I would say six one way half a dozen the other you see when Sunny pulled that image from the Iron Warriors and how they basically looked like they were identical except they had colour swap. That is the point she is getting at because we can only go off what the company does in fact I branch out a lot in the art area to fan made creations because some of the time they capture it better.
And yes I can't say to much on that other bit that's why I have to stop... because you know who comes after the eighth... - Cal
That nightlord at 24:50 looks like a 90s saturday morning cartoon character LMAO
Ave Cowabunga Nox, my dudes!
@@Tremezy 🤣🤣🤣 ~Sunny
Nightlords is one of those legions that make me wish I had the painting chops to do fine brush work.
Someday! Someday!
@@ShockArcl1te well a mate of ours says he finds it easier to paint the trims by just base coating the whole model gold then fill in the coloured parts after ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow oh that's not what keeps me away. It's all tye lightning bolt effects! Gotta have those on such an iconic marine!
"Check out the Omnibus," like I didn't just finish it for the 3rd time this past year, I just love how plain evil and weak they are, the complete opposite of what a Space Marine should be. The observations made were spot on I think
I did say like we have to say 😂 - Cal
If you liked reading about traitor marines, give the word bearers omnibus by Andy Chambers a try 👌 Really good and a different kind of evil 😉
@totalCoolerUsername I'm actually powering through that now, good ole Elysians getting slapped around be the Word Bearers
The 30k colour scheme is "better" because it's more subtle. Those corrupted by chaos often lose this subtlety. And it shows in their gaudy colurs!
I think the honest answer is... they just put more work into the Horus Heresy designs you had to put a lot of work into it because you're not sure if it will sell or not so you have to make an AMAZING product... people will buy 40k regardless... I think they can make great things with 40k but, they need to put the work in - Cal
I think it has a lot to do with the colour pallette used between 30k and 40k. The dark blue and silver gives us a cold, dark look that implies the terror that they represent. The gold/bronze trim gives them a warmth that almost spoils the vibe.
WE STAND IN MIDNIGHT CLAD
Now die as you lived - Cal
I mean the idea of nightlords are being chased off by blood angels is really on brand. it’s happened so many times it’s a trope at this point. They use the I am a monster imagery to make themselves scarier they sre are a person doing there saddest to prepend they are a monster , even in contrast blood angels are at there core monsters doing everything they can to try and be humans.
I remember barely being half awake reading this comment during the night and being like ha that's a good comment and then falling back asleep. Well you will get to see what we think of the blood angels soon enough only a month away now... - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow dope can’t wait
12:22 "He is a hero" I hurt now
You are not the only person who has said this - Cal
I like this series. It's very pleasant to follow.
I am glad you have been enjoying it, I hope you like our other content to, we try really hard to make great content for all of you - Cal
Finally! The best legion!
It was very Fun! to review... but I have to say much more fun that what is quickly no longer becoming my favourite legion the Dark Angels, their player base has sucked a lot of the fun with their comment and the Night Lords people have been awesome, they may take the thrown from the Emperor's Children as most chill dudes... It's weird how the Chaos people seem more fun - Cal
Great job guys, most interesting & entertaining. Something to add which is not 40K related, but from Battletech, is that House Steiner has the same colour scheme as the Night Lords & they are considered "good guys" in a setting where everyone is fighting everyone.
>Steiner
>Good
Pick one and only one
@@thepiratepenguin4465 design elements are also a key factor on top of colour choice, so with battle tech they probably come off as professional because they might resemble suits ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Ahh, that does make sense. Maybe one day WAYPN can discuss the lore vs design of the Great houses of the BattleTech universe?
@@thepiratepenguin4465 I would love to... but I am not knowledgeable enough about it. But one day I would love to do a design vs lore with someone on it! - Cal
Cal: Today's topic is... The 8th legion
Sunny: Oh, boy, the Edgelords!
Cal: Nah they're the Nightlords
Sunny: Right... What did I say?
Great ideas for the redesign btw! It never really occurred to me just how copy/paste their post heresy design was.
@@speaktome4778 sounds like me alright ~Sunny
27:10 In-universe, Belissarius Cawl did take inspiration from the Mark IV armour when designing Mark X (Primaris) armour's helmet along with other previous models for other parts of the armour.
When Sunny compared them it does look a lot like the Mark IV armour - Cal
52:28 - *_"We have come for you."_*
How fitting that a blackout happens while discussing the Night Lords.
Great Video!
Thanks 😊 - Cal
Every Talos fan smiled and probably had a tear in her eye as they heard her call him a hero.
Many people have commented this its ironic because it's completely unprompted, I didn't expect her to say that - Cal
I’d love to see one of these on the iron hands. I’ve recently been diving into their lore since pick how I want to paint my marines, and I’m just constantly left sad since they have so little lore. I was really liking what they tried to do with the Kardan Stronos storyline so it’s a pity it cot axed before it was done.
@@DaveMcMuffin well we will covering it but only when their number arrives because we are doing these in numbered legion order ~Sunny
the Talos pic desription was perfect
I will "blame" the artist for that Sunny's analysis is fantastic but without the art she would have never uttered that hero comment. And thanks for the compliment 😊 - Cal
Amazing video, the best video so far
Glad you think so! - Cal
I love this series from you guys! Immediately fell in love with it since the emperor’s children video. I was just curious, as a sisters player, would you guys ever like to delve deep into these videos or lore wise with the different orders?
Again thanks !
@@danielenon2012 currently we are focusing on doing all the space marine legions in numbered order, but I think it may not be a bad idea to do the other factions as a continuation after that ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I’ll be looking forward to it!
Cool video once again! 😊
Thank you very much sir 😊 - Cal
Nice I was wondering when you guys were going to do a video on this Legion as it's design is quite unique.
Sons of our father stand in midnight clad we bring the night.
We're doing theme in order once a month wonder not! - Cal
Mmm, a design vs lore video in the morning is my coffee 😁
Would you guys ever consider doing an influences of 40K video? Tyranids = Xenomorphs, Necrons = Terminators, Sisters of Battle = My girlfriend, and so on.
Would love to see what you guys think of xenos races, their influences and how effective GW were at taking something at making it their own.
Have a lovely week Cal and Sunny.
@@7hird3ye that sounds like a cool idea! I hope this video was good coffee this fine morn ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Thanks!
It was indeed. Love the insights into colour theory and artistic design. Incredibly fascinating stuff.
The night lords should all be voiced by the Count from Sesame Street for the live action Amazon show
Ahh man don't do me like that u thought my Konrad was good - Cal
If there is one thing i can PROMISE not to be in the amazon show, it‘s the effin nightlords ma dude 😂
"One skinned face! Ah-Ah-Ah! Two skinned faces! Ah-Ah-Ah! Three skinned faces! Ah-Ah-Ah!"
I love these videos and I love you.
Thank you so very much 💗 we absolutely try our hardest with these - Cal
This is a fun and interesting discovery, discussing the design is rather original in terms of W40k content.
Also, I like Sunny's accent.
“Heroes don’t flay the face of their enemies” moon knight has entered the chat
I heard xylophones as soon as I clicked on this. So spooky, so scary!
Ha ha well at least you didn't have a black out while recording - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow it'd be worse if there were big, glowing red eyes!
Crying when Sonny called Talos a hero… 😭😭😭
He has a rhino horn never change Sunny
I think the post-Heresy image analysis suffers from the Night Lords' real lack of identity before Aaron Demski-Bowden got a hold of them. It's through his descriptions that the Night Lords really gained a unique and evocative design language with scavenged armor and trophies. Before that they very much were just generic CSM.
Fair, Sunny can only go off the art that is available and that is what is available unless I am missing different templates? - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow It looks like you used mostly older codex artwork, newer Night Lords art is more in the ADB-described style and less cartoonish. Even the Heresy-era artwork was pretty sanitized compared to what's officially out there. Not nearly enough bloody hands hanging from chains and hooks lol. As someone who loves all flavors of CSM, they definitely have a unique style at this point that modelling is slowly catching up to.
A Night Lords upgrade box would be so good.
Showing Talos and saying “he’s a hero” hurt my soul after reading the omnibus. One of the greatest quotes from Taloswhen asked what he wanted to be… “I wanted to be a hero, and look how that turned out…”
Yes quite a few people have brought it up but honestly I have to give credit to the artist. Without their amazing work Sunny wouldn't have come to that conclusion - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow she’s pretty clever, love the channel btw
Thank you very much for your kind words - Cal
Oooooh now you're talking about my favorite legion 😈 . Been painting up post heresy Night Lords for over a year now. Best vibe of all the traitor legions hands down
Glad you enjoyed 😊 - Cal
You had mentioned how the miniatures have some of the elements (like the flayed skin or whatnot) that the templates didn't have (because GW is boring and lazy probably) and i think it could be cool to implement some images of the miniatures when discussing the designs.
Like showing off the special Nightlords dreadnought with the giant skull for a head and the bat wings across the chest and like a literal corpse stapled onto the chest of the dreadnought or like the new'ish Nightlords kill team with the guy with a full-on skin apron or a space marine corpse hooked up to a banner
Second person to talk about that kit - Cal
I mean, it's nice to get kit that captures the feel of NLs, though one of them has feeling of mall ninja with that "hoodie", though I hope there are other heads to choose from
I'm a Nightlord player and you guys were on point. However Nightlords are also known for stealing armor off the fallen, chaos or otherwise. They skin and wear their victims which you covered. I play Necrons, Deathguard, Demons and Blood Andels too. Do you folks have a discord where fans can share their personal color schemes? It might be interesting for future content ideas to use your color knowledge to gage your fan's art as well. Love your channel!
For the Discord please check out the description and our Ko-fi or become a TH-cam member - Cal
8:17 “Family friendly, family friendly!”
Proceeds to show child murderer extraordinaire Anakin Skywalker
Hey they kept a PG rating - Cal
dude she’s a fucking queen
I like being queen, thanks ~Sunny
12:21 you did it talos *sniff* you did it
00:01:33 Are y'all viewing a reversed photo? The chapter emblem is on their left pauldron, skull's on their right knee, and the shield's on their left knee. But she says the opposite.
We may have been I can't say one way or the other - Cal
I can't wait for sunny to do the XXth. It's so far away, tho
Not that far away two months - Cal
one nightlord had some kind of red HH logo on the knee!
should've show her the latest nemesis claw art .
I really like the body horror of your designs, but most night lords after heresy dont follow chaos. They are more like renegades than chaos, still cool designs ❤
Some do but that's why Sunny's redesign with Captain Choppers was just more horror rather than body horror with the blood. We tried to show both ideas - Cal
The Primaris design co-opted the mk iv helm for its entire front look, and I hate it. Also, it's most likely that the reason it looked like primaris is due to it being more-or-less just a primaris template redrawn to more resemble the Mk IV. You can tell from the proportions and posing, as they look very similar to the primaris templates. Some good ways to differentiate though, are:
The Primaris has ball-joints on the ankles (out of the firstborn patterns, only the Mk VIII has those), the round kneepads are conjoined to the greaves as a single solid piece and have the extra fin around the upper half of the edge (only one firstborn pattern's greaves were constructed similarly, that being the Mk VI with its greaves actually replacing the kneepads), the primaris armour also has solid abdominal plates and a raised pectoral design on the cuirass (firstborn cuirasses were typically smooth, rounded surfaces, more reminiscent of 14th century cuirasses) along with three recesses on either side of the cuirass, a larger gorget (though unlike that of the Mk VIII, the Mk X is more open, allowing for greater helmet diversity), the thighs and forearms have awkward raised surfaces, there's additional plates hanging off the belt on either side (as far as I can tell, a trait it shares with the Mk VIII), the helmet has those weird ear hoods, the visor is flatter on the face and has a more narrow shape to it, it has smaller eyes, and the power pack has additional plating on the thrusters and a dome on the back.
Meanwhile, the Mk IV has simpler ankles, hat-shaped kneepads that are separate from the greaves, smoother thighs and forearms, no additional plating on the belt, lots of exposed power cabling over the chest, the cuirass dips down to cover the abdomen, forearm plates extending over the backs of the wrists, the visor has more of a slope and in some cases even has a small vox grill like the Mk VII's, lacks the ear hoods, and the power pack has less armour on the thrusters.
But yeah, I've been looking at Space Marine power armour since like, 2013/2014? And I was around to see the day the Primaris were introduced, so I might just be more obsessive about these details.
damn bro that lady is real smart
Thank you very much my man! But I would say the credit goes to the designers and artists because they used the right elements to Portray things properly ~Sunny
I would say Morten Bak Pøhlsgaard really hit the nail on the head with his Talos artwork - Cal
I think the main issue with the post heresy arts is the fact that they are based on actual miniatures. That means that if the ACTUAL MODELS dont look like night lords and dont have upgrade sprues like their loyalist cousins, the artwork will picture them as a generic chaos marine with their legion colours. That applies for all the undivided legions. There are some exceptions, Alpha Legion has scales, for example, but they could be painted on the actual model. But because there arent any official upgrades for their respective iconography, symbols etc. the artwork looks like a copy-paste.
Fair comment is fair - Cal
I notice that you come at these designs 30k>40k but that isn’t the order they were done irl. Some take influence from 80s hair metal bands, others from influences a quarter century later! And that was still a decade ago! So many of the designs aren’t because that was they were on model but because that was the edition of warhammer and that style across the board. That edition has one set of plastic models for all csm? Everything chaos looks the same that edition
So you may have noticed much later in the video when we have our very first Night Lord I point out that, that is what they looked like when they first appeared. I know that is how they first appeared however, I would say the reason that the 30k always look better than the 40k is they just haven't put the work into the 40k lore/art in a long time. See for Horus Heresy they had to put that work into the art to get people in. I think if they put that level of cohesive effort into the 40k I think it would be different - Cal
As for redesign I get you would like to push the psychology horror and I'm all for that, I guess it would be to me like Tzeench/Slannesh but I'd really rather them lean into a warp deity that wasn't one of the major gods.
To me and with the fate of Konrad and the whole idea that the Primarchs have a warp born soul I'd love it if Conrad was warp entity of dread and sadism. He'd be relentless and utterly mercilessly as he takes his time breaking down his prey, on all levels possible breaking them one layer at a time their dreams, hopes aspirations, their bounds, their families, their self worth and esteem until nothing is left.
What's your thoughts on the Dornian Heresy AU?
They have some cool redesigns and some that I am not as keen on - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Fair enough
12:36 Prey sight
48:00 il just throw this out here... so the nightlords vampire is motive is kinda of a thing, they arent vampire but they are meant to be like vampires... 40k was Orginnaly a experiment of making future sci fi warhammer fantasy, with a lot of inspiration form different places. space wolfs are very obviously related to the sons of ulric, so night lords got a lot of there early design form the vampire count faction, especially the winged bat motive.
Oh yeah Warhammer 40k was Future Warhammer at the start - Cal
18:26 Haa... 40K Gauteng.
All Crime ALL the time - Cal
the night lords turned 100,000 dark angels into 20,000 during the heresy
You should do deathgaurd
We will get there, it goes in order - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow cheers! Love you guys!
She is absolutely right about the unoriginal copy paste drawings of them in that section.
Thanks man! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that ~Sunny
🔥🎸🔥
8:05 do Australians have a 5th amendment?
We don't in the same way Americans do but, that could get political and it was meant to be a funny joke - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnowit’s funny.
Also the imperium betrayed the night lords
25:51 this isn’t primaris it’s a first born with proper prepositions
Nope that's one of the old school marks of armour, but it is drawn in a primarius way for some reason but yeah, that is the helmet the primarius use - Cal
She's 100% accurate with the template remark, those are just there to show new players different ways they can paint their chaos marines. Not a good representation of how night lords specifically look. Edit: Other than the lightning.