PONTIAC - "The Super Duty Story" Part 1 of 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มี.ค. 2010
- Pontiac had an SD engine program in the late 50s early 60s, and later/briefly again in 1973/74 with the SD455. This video is regarding the FIRST Super Duty program.---In only a few years time during the late 50s early 60s, Pontiac MORE THAN DOUBLED their V8's horsepower output (described in this video), while using/keeping the same V8 engine block they used thru 1955-81. Even though the same block was kept, from 1955-62 the cubic inch displacement grew much larger than the initial 287 cuber it started as in 1955. It grew to a 317 347 370 389 and finally a 421 cuber in 1962. It eventually maxed out at 455 cubes in 1970. By 1970 ALL the other GM divisions were producing engines at 454 or 455 cubes (500 for Cadillac). PONTIAC WAS THE ONLY DIVISION still using the same block they used in the 1950s on engines that had a much smaller displacement -- 287 cubes. The 1955 287 displacement would remain the smallest displacement ever used in the Pontiac V8 block all the way until 1980/81 when a 265V8 was produced. Since less durability was required for the smaller displacement, the block was decked/butchered/lightened on the 265/301v8s of 1980/81. Prior to 1980 the block had never been decked/butchered/lightened. The 1980/81 265/301v8 blocks were about 200 pounds lighter than the 1955-79 blocks, and only 25 pounds heavier than a Buick 231V6.
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Was born in Pontiac Michigan, the first car I ever rode in was the 57 Pontiac that mom used to race out at the old Pontiac airport when she was in high school. I remember Dads 61 Catalina convertible, it had a glass back window. Fighting over the snow brush for some reason my sister and I put the snow brush through the back window. I remember standing on the hump between the bucket seats holding on to the back of the bucket seats as Mom is banging gears racing from stop light to stop light on Woodward on a Friday and Saturday night in Dad's brand new fresh from the factory '62 Tempest, 4 cylinder, 4 barrel, 4 speed. Then Dad bought mom the brand new 62 Grand Prix convertible with the 421 super duty and the two 4 barrels and a 4-speed that's how he ordered it from the factory. Mom was a happy little dirty hot rodder. Then Dad had a 63 Tempest with the 326 V8 in it. My grandparents were buying a brand new red Pontiac Catalina every year. They got a discount for working for Pontiac motors for 40 years each. The last Red Catalina grandma bought after Grandpa died. Was one of the first 1968 Pontiac Catalina's built,it was at the dealer's on a turntable in 1967 to show the public what the 68 Catalina was going to look like. It was one of a kind, they didn't want to sell it to her. But since she was a regular customer, for over 20 years. Had this employee's discount from Pontiac motors division. And her pocketbook was full of $100 bills. She wasn't taking no for an answer. She got that pretty red car she wanted. The sticker under the hood said it was a 400 heavy duty. Turbo 400 transmission, 4:10 posi rear end. Grand Prix racing wheels is what they call them on the sticker in the window. I always call them overgrown Volkswagen rims.Fender skirts. And these strange things known as seat belts. It was fast. When Grandma went to get a new car after having that one for years. She got a 74 Pontiac GTO. And gave my dad the 68 Catalina. We were back in Michigan on vacation. We made it from Clarkston Michigan to home in Federal Way Washington in 72 hours. I was not allowed to drive the Catalina, one because I kept putting my foot into it and found myself going northbound in the southbound Lanes. It was incredibly fast and being the only one in town the cops knew the car no matter how hard I tried to outrun them. I would show up to high school on Monday morning just to have somebody ask me what does your mother have in that car she drives? I would ask why? And they would tell me that she blew their doors off racing stuff like to stop light out on 99 Friday night. I have had a 64 GTO, 65, 66, I have had a 67 and 68 firebird. I have had a 71 and a 75 trans am. Mom and dad bought me a brand new 77 trans am for graduation. Then I have had a 71 t37. A 70 LeMans, a 66 LeMans convertible with the 250 6 cylinder. You might say Pontiacs in my blood.
'62 GP convertible. NO. Never existed.
RIP Pontiac!! GM should have never gotten rid of them.
GM will rise from the ashes in the best got dang firebird Cadillac ever madd
Absolutely !
They kept Buick and got rid of Pontiac , that’s a crime.
I was a die hard Pontiac buyer having had 4 Trans Ams ! When GM dumped Pontiac is favor of Buick I never got over that huge blunder ! Never !
So was I and basically lived cars for several years. Always seemed to me like Pontiac was GM's red-headed stepchild. My 75 Firebird was to be my crowning achievement. But my focus strayed to women and the dream died. Nobody's fault but mine.
I had a 62 Pontiac Grand Prix tri power four speed , won every drag race I was in. Sure wish I still had it but got tired of changing clutches every weekend!!
No problem! I thought people needed to know these cars saved Pontiac. Many younger people don't know how crucial 1955-62 was. In 56 it was totally expected that Pontiac would be shut down by 1961. But as you can see their cars changed more (boring to WILD) in that 5 year period than probably any other time in their history. 180hp in 1955 to 405hp in 1962! And let me tell you the 405hp was under rated, as my other 421 dyno vid shows it was actually closer to 500hp from the factory!
1961 was when Pontiacs started looking good.
Actually '57...
I'm a Mopar fan when it comes to muscle cars but Pontiac is probably my favorite performance car manufacturer other than Dodge/Plymouth. It seemed like Mopar and GM...particularly Pontiac and Chevy...were always a little bit ahead of Ford back in the 60's as far as street performance went. A 57 Bonneville 347 Tri Power, a 62 Catalina 421 SD, a 69 Ram Air IV GTO(not a Judge) and a 73 Firebird Formula 455 SD are my favorite Pontiac's ever made. They built so many different awesome cars over the years. They were the only manufacturer who was still building cool cars even in the late 70's...the 77-79 Trans Am 400-4 speed cars and the 77 Can Am with the 400. Never liked that Olds 403 engine that came in 77-79 T/A's with automatic transmissions and in T/A's and Can Am's that were sold in California. The Pontiac 400 seemed alot more snappy than the Olds 403 did. GM fucked up when they dumped Pontiac and kept Buick instead...at least in my opinion. They didn't really need both Buick and Cadillac...two luxury manufacturers
AMEN !
Yes, GM let us all down. I too had a 65 GTO, 66 GTO with a 68 -400 HO Firebird engine 4-speed, 3 Firebirds and a 1989 T/A, Buicks can't hold a candle to the old PMD line.
HEY PONTIAC WAS THE BEST CAR GM EVER PRODUCED
Pontiacs electrified me as a kid, beautiful and fast. Why on earth would GM let Pontiac slip away and keep Buick? Dumb
Buick was and still is an old man’s car.
Sold well in China and at higher prices...
Nothing like those Super Duty Poncho's...under rated from the get go...which is why they used to Get up n Go the way they did...day in and day out...bullet proof.
In the early 50s, Oldsmobile had a heavy duty version with a “severe use” kit. That was the car that was used in NASCAR Grand National races. Most owners got it straight out of the factory.
From the time Pontiac started building V8,s after the 50,s Pontiac,s dominance on the track was becoming a bit expensive between 1962-64 SD engines were quite powerful and couldn't use a automatic transmission, but street and strip performance as good as Chevys 409.
Had the 65 2+2, 4 speed, 421 tri power. My favorite car. Rubber in 1st, 2nd, chirps in 3rd. She was a beast. Looking for one again
Detroit dragway,i started racing there when they still had a flagman. Good stuff.
I was kind of hoping they'd cover 455 SD's. Pontiac may not get any credit for making the LAST muscle car (1974 Trans Am/Firebird SD455), but atleast they get credited with the first!
Great upload, thanks for sharing!
laupstad Add the lost compression back, and you're off to the races with those 72-74 455s..not sure about the stock cam profiles of those motors, but low compression was the biggest power loss factor IIRC.
Correct sir.....the first muscle car(1964 GTO) and the last(74 S/D 455 T/A) we're both created by Pontiac. Really the 73-74 sd455 ta was the ONLY muscle car after 1971
@@jeremythompson9895 - The Firebirds still ran good to the end with the hotter version of the late 1970's under rated Pontiac 400...
Good ole Jim Wangers. If he was in the mafia, his name would be "Jimmy the Wig".. I remember these cars as a young kid. My dad used to assemble these in plant 14 up in Pontiac. He used to see them racing around the city.
I never get tired of watching this
For a short time in the early 70's my friend and I bought a SD421 'Swiss Cheese' Catalina. We raced it locally (Ohio & Indiana). It was a wild ride (drag only...not street legal) and truned the 1320 in the high 11's. Only problem was, there wasn't much competition around our area, so we sold it to Randy Williams. He spent over 15 years restoring it, and it now belongs to Dana Mecum. It was one of the 'Packer Pontiacs'. We didn't know it at the time. Ah, the fun we had..!!!
Great Video, thanks!
I got an 1980 pontiac lemans.I'm in love with that car.I live in ohio but my car came from new mexico so you know its a solid car.
I had a '63 pontiac Catalina with Tri-power 421, factory 4-speed, and Pontiac 8 lug 2 piece mag wheels Does anybody remember these wheels?
Of course... Jay Leno has one...
I HAD ONE UP IN MONTANA. TRADED A 66 B.S.A. CHOPPER FOR IT.....BOILED THE TIRES OFF IT. AND SOLD IT....CHEAP. DID NOT KNOW WHAT I HAD....DAMN!!!
Pontiac's V8 got bored or stroked for more displacement every year from 1956 through 1959. No other make did this. Started at 287 in 55, then 316, 347, 370 and 389.
Ford did with the FE...
1958----332
1959----352
1961----390
1962----406
1963----427
1966----428
@@daleostrom3613 Well Ford didn't increase every year . The FE came out in 1958 in 3 displacements at once, 332, 352 and in the Edsel 361. The next increase was 1961 when the 390 was released.
Pontiac V8's were allowed to be a tad bigger than Chevy's and a tad smaller than Olds! And Olds also had tripower in '57... GTO engine was allowed to slip bigger than 442 engines for early '64... then Olds went bigger...
Pontiac with 6 cylinder was invented by GM to be big brother to Chevy with 4 banger...
Ya your right. then in 1967 till 74 came the 350,400,428, and the SD455 then came the 301- 78-81
The excitement division is looooong gone. The older Pontiacs were basically a GM anyways, too bad they never stayed their own.
Big block is the answer now look they are gone with the sunbird
Jim Wangers sounds a lot like Jessie Ventura
The 413 wedges weren't THAT much faster than the 421 Super Duty, especially since the Mopars were running a lighter body than the big Catalinas Pontiac ran the SDs in....both were pretty consistent 10 second cars.
Now the Hemi, that was something else!
10 second cars? Must have had a ton of modifications to accomplish that time slip.
No way in hell did a 413 or 421 pontiac run in the 10,s more like in the 13s
@@mikeraddish7213 - 11's off the showroom floor... 10's with drag racer owner tricks... 405 HP 421 dual quad Super Duty was close to 500 HP stock...
th-cam.com/video/tWlrdr2b9f4/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/gNg569agwiU/w-d-xo.html
please tell me what Pontiac around the 413 wedge Era could run in the 10s? no 413 ever made could run anywhere near the 10s. wishful thinking
were do i get stuff for my 60 pontiac catalina???
great engine but GM messed up they should have used it instead of the 389 in the GTO'it was a great Nascar motor but no great shakes at the drags after 64.
Saw a bone stock Pontiac 421SD vs a bone stock Chevy 409/409 in a dyno shootout. The SD: 488 horsepower at 6000rpm....... The 409: 406 horsepower at 6000 rpm. Those 421 SD engines were some of the baddest ever to come from Detroit
Torquey GTOs ruled the streets short distances from stop light to stop light:
th-cam.com/video/SJIRitKQYrM/w-d-xo.html
I'd rather have a 40s Pontiac than a 90s Grand Am.
If you have facebook, go to a page called "Pontiac Pickers". They're in FL, have parts, and if they don't have the parts they'll advertise your request for free, they have 100s of people visting that page per day (fans like us, and restorers) asking for parts, and selling, etc. If you don't have facebook you can email them at pontiacpickers(at)gmail(.)com. And their website is PontiacPickers(.)com. It'll be a great source for ya, and they and their fans post many cool Pontiac pics daily.
@7:40 Small block ford LOL
This thing is not letting me send you 'links' in these comments. So I am going to private message it to you.
Where does one find parts for a 68 Grand Prix or car in decent shape and no rust?
There is one down the street from me...Convertible, 389 I believe... Been trying to buy it for years...they seem to be determined to let it rot instead of selling it to a proper caretaker. I will let you know if I get ownership.
Today is Pontiac, who?
Chevy owes a lot to Pontiac . Chevy copied a lot of Pontiac style. And it was Pontiac the made Muscle cars Hot in the 1st place not Chevy.
@@tomcherry7029 Don't be silly, they were both controlled by GM and what GM said is what they did.
@@johnabuick really GM didnt ok the 1st GTO'S that was done under their radar, and when they found out they were selling like crazy then they oked it.the only reason Buick is still around is because the sell it China.
True super duties had 8 lugs!
Yeah, & require cab removal to work on the engine.
Also an option on regular street Pontiacs...
All super duties ordered for nascar had 15" steel wheels.
The small block that put big blocks to shame. Pontiac.
This is hard to watch looking at that awful rug on that guys head
Don't you love the way he put his arm over the back of the couch to make his bicep look bigger? He was a pure salesman, he couldn't help it.
It's sort of morbidly fascinating though. But yeah, painful.
Vanguard car's
Pontiac is dead now
Chevy should be dead ,kept Pontiac from being greater than it was. Stop the 1963-1965 Banshee which would have killed the Vette , copied the 1968-1969 Grand Prix to make the 1970 Monte Carlo, copied the style of the 1968 -1969 GTO style with the 1970 Chevelle.
GM shoulda never shut down Pontiac! Buick? Yes. Oldsmobile? Yes. But not Pontiac. Pontiac was always the innovator for GM. The leader. They kept GM moving forward. Without Pontiac GM would be destined to become the steaming pile of crap they are today. Swirling around the rim of bankruptcy. RIP GM. You did it to yourselves…….
Mr. Wangers, please take that damn wig off! You aren't fooling anybody.