I don't know what it is about Pontiacs compared to other V8s, but they were so reliable and bullet proof. Driving a 455 Pontiac vs. a 454 chevy is just a different experience.
Many, many years ago, I had a 1963 Pontiac Catalina Ventura, 2-door hardtop, white with an auburn interior. Absolutely, the most beautiful car I have ever owned and, IMHO, one of the most beautiful cars of all time.
Pontiac truly offered excitement to all at that time (mid 1960s) when you could buy an executive sedan with a big block and a 4 speed manual with a big wide bench seat in it. They had something for everyone. The illustrations are simply exquisite and not drawn far off from the real thing
First ticket I ever got (at age 16) was in a '63 Catalina with a 389. This was in the summer of 1975. I had my provisional drivers license and my friend who bought the Catalina only had a learners permit. I got clocked going 73 in a 40 mph zone. That thing was deceptively fast and smooth. Lost my license for 6 months and had my insurance rates go up. My Dad was thrilled!
I had a ‘68 Catalina coupe with the standard 389 with a 2bbl. You’re right, it was a wonderful engine. I’m not sure of the horse power of the regular gas 389 that year but it was more than adequate. I took that from Long Island to Niagara Falls on my honeymoon and except for a flat on the Thruway, it ran great. I did, on the advice of my friend who was also my mechanic, replace that plastic timing gear. It was one of the smoothest riding cars that I have ever owned.
I learned to drive in my mom's 67 Firebird 326 2V and that car had enough power for anything we needed and my father towed a 21' travel trailer with his 67 Firebird 326 4V.
A '63 Tempest Le Mans kicked ass at Daytona Speed Week, lapping the field of 'vettes, Ferraris, and everything else. Paul Goldschmidt averaged 145 mph in the rain.
Hi, could you investigate the pontiacs made in Australia during 60's. They were produced at the Pagewood plant in Sydney. I think they were Parisians that came CKD from Canada. This plant was very versatile and even made Frigidaire ovens and fridges. My family had connections to this factory.
Nice review. I have a friend whose dad worked at the Linden plant in NJ, and saw his own 2+2 get assembled there, with the 421 engine. He loved the car, says it was very powerful, even for today. He also said they knew it was his car he ordered on the assembly line, and it got double spot welds and other extra attention. It's a cool story he has.
Love Pontiacs. I have a 1967 Firebird Convertible. Pontiac built very exciting cars over the years. It's sad that GM killed Pontiac. Pontiacs were styled very nicely and extremely attractive. Always innovative compared to the other GM brands. Thanks for a great video and historical review! You knocked it out of the park as you usually do. Keep up the GREAT WORK.
My Dad bought a 1961 Bonneville in 1963. It had a 4 speed automatic. It was beautiful, reliable and fast. It is the car I would love to have today. Everything except the gas mileage and rusting was just great.
I had a colleage at conservatory who had a minty '66 4dr Bonneville (white) with the 421 3-2bbl rig. We'd go to gigs, and surprise a LOT of IROC Camaros in the mid 80s!
Funny that you mention the timing gear. I thought I remembered my dad saying that Pontiacs had bad timing chains that jumped time earlier than other engines. Now I know that I remembered correctly. I never understood the reason for the “plastic “ teeth on the gear anyway. Supposedly it was for noise reduction. But when we replaced them with metal gears, I’d be hard pressed to hear the difference. It was very minimal.
Yeah, the nylon covered cam gear was used by every manufacturer...even gear drives without a chain... I think it was because engines had gotten too reliable and they needed a minor internal engine failure to get people thinking about buying a new car again... of course, timing belts work even better for a quick failure...
Glenn "Fireball" Roberts, who ironically died due to burns from a crash in a '64 Galaxie 500. There is also the '64 GTO 'ringer' used in magazine testing, perhaps against the Ferrari GTO, which was said to have a 421... Some Pontiac dealers, such as Royal I believe, had packages which would put a 421 in your GTO.
Jim Wangers, a Pontiac ad agency guy, was known to throw lots of those 'ringers' at the car magazines in those days. Car & Driver tested the 64 GTO that you referred to, and then in 1965, pitted a 421 2+2 against a Ferrari 2+2 at Bridgehampton. Since the Pontiac already had the biggest engine, C&D got a Royal Bobcat car that supposedly did 0-60 in less than 4 seconds. Hmm.
Great memories. My Grandfather was an insurance salesman in Detroit Mi. Every 2 years he would get a new Pontiac. He had well over 20 new Pontiac's. In the later years were Catalina's with 2 barrel 389 and one of his last 400s. We had our share too. Dad had '63 GP, '66 Bonneville and a '69 GP (my favorite car). I had '69 Firebird 350 2 V. Miss those cars. Thanks for the memories.
Yep, the first thing I do (if I am not going to completely rebuild an engine) is replace the nylon timing set with an all metal one. I most recently did this with my recently sold 1970 Buick Electra Custom convertible. While I was at it, I replaced the timing cover, and oil pump kit. TA performance makes NEW timing covers. Expensive but worth it.
Thank You Adam. Once again I´m lost for words on your Love and Passion for these long gone classic American car´s. Here in Europe we had the trope that American car´s were low tech land yacht´s with little power in comparison with our European sport car´s and sedans, which could only be driven gracefully in a straight line. But you have certainly openned my eye´s to these beautiful, elegant and powerful cars, Thank´s again.
A pet peeve of mine is the "advancement" of car technology in a direction that I don't think is an advancement at all. The complexity of modern cars is mind-numbing, and honestly, while I'm all about technology, there are some places where I draw the line. In my 2006 vehicle, there is so much safety reinforcement that it obstructs my vision - which oh by the way is a key component of my safety. To be honest, I don't even need power steering and power brakes. Had a 1967 Chevelle with zero power equipment, loved that car, greatly regret selling it. A straight-6 250 and a Powerglide, it wasn't going to win any speed contests, but that's not what I wanted it for. God willing, I'll be in a place soon where I can buy 2-3 vehicles that I like to drive, that are simple and cheap and easy to maintain and repair, and run out my days not worrying about having to buy a solar-vegan-hybrid car that's refusing to drive me to the market because I've exceeded my allowed mileage for the week based upon my carbon credit score and how many times I used the air conditioning. Just let me drive the car. I miss driving real cars.
As the owner of a 1965 RHD (right hand drive) Canadian Pontiac Parisienne with the 283ci and power glide, as well as a version of the 1965 Impala dash it had 'clap hand wipers' though they were not articulated.
The 421 was only available through the 1966 model year. 1967 through 1969 cars got the 428 which was just a 421 bored out .030" to give 7 more cubic inches. The bore and stroke were both increased in 1970 to give 455 cubic inches and GM removed the 400 cubic inch limit on intermediate cars so you could get the 455 in a GTO or Firebird beginning in 1971.
When I first began to pay attention to cars in 1968, Pontiacs were my favorites. Maybe because the Monkeemobile was a custom Pontiac. They had the long and low design language down perfectly in 1965 with the Catalina and 2+2 on Kelsey-Hayes 8-lug wheels.
I miss that power steering from back then. You could turn the steering wheel with your little finger. The "new stuff" sucks. My friend's mom had a 62 Ventura and his dad had a 63 GP. Beautiful cars. I have always loved the 421. Excellent video. Thank You and your love for these cars really shows. I'd love to own one. Best Regards
Excellent review as always !! Guess those 421's had to use premium leaded fuel back in the day? I wonder how unleaded fuel affects engines those with 12- 13 compression ratios? Look at the 70's to see how far we have fallen in the HP race in the US. Things changed starting in 1971.
Trying to operate ANY engine long term designed to run on high grade leaded fuel will result in reduced power, spark knock, higher operating temperatures and ultimately ENGINE FAILURE. The 421 would suffer the same fate. The correct thing to do if you want the engine to survive if the car is driven frequently is to remove the heads and have a reputable engine machine shop install hardened valve seats and if a high performance engine, the rest of the valvetrain (if it was mine) also with modern parts designed for use with unleaded or worse, ethanol fuel. Sometimes, you can get by like Adam does since none of his collection are true daily drivers anymore is to buy lots and lots of lead additive and aviation fuel if your lucky enough to live near an airport that will sell it to you. Leads main purpose in old school gasoline was to provide lubrication for the exhaust valves for a quieter and smoother running engine.
@@rogergoodman8665 No. Lead, in the form tetraethyllead was developed as a cheap octane booster. Its use allowed the 120, 130 Octane fuels that gave Allied aircraft an edge after 1941. BTW they tried 140 and 150 octane as well but the lead fouling of exhausts and airframes required too much remediation without yielding a substantial improvement in power output. Any lubricating qualities were incidental.
@@larrynorsworthy8582 TEL had a number of knock-on effects (pardon the implied pun)but its primary purpose was always Octane boosting (following the work by British Engineer Harry Ricardo during late WW1 and early 1920's). The manufacturers were well aware of the dangers of resulting lead poisoning (the inventor himself fell seriously ill from it) but it was cheap and profits came first for GM and Dupont.
Interesting as usual. The description of the 389 2-bbl brings to mind my 1971 Le Mans Sport with a 350 2-bbl. I was always surprised at its peppiness when compared with similarly powered chevies and Fords. It had plenty of go!
Very articulate. Very enjoyable. You, Sir, have the heart of a real automotive enthusiast. These were the glory days in American car manufacturing. The cars weren't just effective mechanically. They were (and yes, I'll use the French) objets d' art, although very large examples of such.
Canadian Pontiacs in late 50s and 60s were built on Chevy chassis, hence 283v8 and I had a 58 with 235L6. They also were never "Wide-Track" and I don't believe had the performance versions. We Canadians always looked in envy at the US versions we saw on TV!
Always impressed how you unlock memories, this time of my friend's & family's mid sixties Pontiacs. The info you bring, and have researched. That plastic timing gear, supposedly to quiet the cam drive, which you could never hear over the Pontiac exhaust. Watched that repair.
Adam, totally agree with you about the goodness of the 1965 Pontiac engine offerings. You did state that you didn’t think any manufacturer offered a broader range than Pontiac. Chrysler Corporation offered the following for its full sized lineup in 1965; the 1 barrel 225 slant 6 making 145 horsepower; why anyone would want their full sized Plymouth or Dodge that underpowered is beyond me, but available nonetheless. A 230 horsepower two barrel regular fuel 318 V-8 was next, followed by the 270 horsepower regular fuel two barrel 383 V-8, the four barrel premium fuel 330 horsepower “Commando” 383 V-8, and a 365 horsepower four barrel premium fuel “Super Commando” 426 V-8. Were these engines “better” than the Pontiac V-8’s? I think the Pontiac engines were arguably smoother and quieter. And I’d take the Pontiac over any Chrysler product for everyday driving. My dad owned a 1965 Plymouth Fury III 318, Pontiacs were much more refined than the Plymouth. But that being said, there was a wide range of engines available from Chrysler Corporation.
When I was a kid I scored a 66 421 Catalina, for the motor to put in my 1980 formula . Motor mounts didn't line up and metric power steering lines .got it in there and it was a tire frier. Sonoco 93 octane only . First trip on the highway it overheated . Had to cram a radiator from a 1977 gran prix in it.
Man.....I don't know what it is about Pontiacs. They intrigue me like no other vehicle. A defunct brand but happy to report, all my children that are under the age of 18, know the name Pontiac.
@@jetsons101 No, sorry.. Bandit's was the 1977 which had the 6.6 liter 403 Oldsmobile engine with the automatic transmission. If you got the 4 speed manual you got the 400 cubic inch Pontiac T/A engine. The 455 SD Super Duty was an actual full on racing engine with special hotter cam, solid lifters, forged crank and connecting rods. In 1974 Pontiac TRANS AM also sold a non-SD 455 cubic inch V8 but that was the same engine you could get in a Safari station wagon.
This information was interesting. I was looking at the Pontiacs in the video and it hit me. Pontiac really was trying to do its own thing for the longest time. I took notice from the wheels and the instrumentation panels and other details. They did that well into the 1980's. I could say the 1990's, but the gray plastic interiors took away from some interesting ideas. I was watching and I could not keep the engine info straight in my mind. Kudos to you Adam for having that information memorized. I was singing Little GTO watching the videos as you shared the engines. Thank you for the video Adam.
My dad had a '59 Catalina with a 421 shoehorned in- that car would haul!! Sadly, it was totalled when an oncoming driver had an epileptic seizure (his very first). My father escaped with a couple of broken ribs and little else WRT injury.
It's soon too bad that the peak of GM was such a short lived era before the combination of cost cutting bean counters and regulations just wrecked this company. There are relatively few vehicles, here and there, that were really decent after 1970. The build quality and styling during that era was just so good.
I am in strong agreement with your final statements about the industry "regressing" in terms of smoothness and power delivery. How about doing a video on ALL the Pontiac specialty engines including the ultra rare 427 and Ram Air V 400 and 303?
My dad street raced from 63-66 ( before he got drafted) and I recall him telling me that when the 421 came out, guys in Chicagoland were buying them otc to shoehorn into whatever they could get them in. 421s were known for breaking transmissions and U joints, because they had so much low end torque. The only Poncho we ever owned was a very used 70 Catalina Executive. That 1 had the std 400 2bbl with single exhaust but it was a real tire smoker when pressed and actually gave fairly good mileage for a full sized sled. I recall as a child that even in our worst winters, that car always started, 1/2 throttle pump, 3/4 crank and it was up and running. Sadly that car died due to a engine fire that seemed to be caused by a reputered fuel pump that sprayed gas all over the hot engine, in 1983. Dad said it looked like Christine...
I would believe that. Pontiac seemed to use 3 tiny 2v carbs, yet Rochester made 2v carbs for cars like the 455 Olds. If Pontiac had used 3 of those carbs, or maybe even only on the secondaries, I'll bet that they could have gotten way more power.
My Dad told me , take those engines to the dump , need the room , so I took the 426 Hemi , the 421 Pontiac , and a 302 Boss motor to the dump , more or less complete fan to flywheel , my buddys still bring that up , at least once a year.
As a "CARNUT" since '51 and as an 8 year old with a newspaper route which included a '56 Imperial Limousine and Packard Carribean Conv. contend Pontiac's 421 SD may have been THE most powerful American V8 of all time?
Pontiac engines were all the same basic block from 326-421 (and later 400, 428 and 455). Whereas Buick or Chevy had to traverse 3 different basic blocks through the 60s and 70s. Chevy and Buick each had two different big blocks from the 50s and completely redesigned their big blocks by the mid 60s. Buick even had quite an evolution on their small block from 215-300/340-350.
To me it all started in 1961 with the bubble top coupe. I think it was the first year for the 8-lug aluminum wheels too. A 61 Catalina coupe with 4-speed was not a car you wanted to call out on the street ... 😁
A super duty 389 was available in '60, although the term super duty was not used. In '56, the second year of Pontiac's V8, they produced a small number of the Strato-Streak 317 cid/ 285 hp screamers.
I'm only going off of the History channel hour on Pontiac from the mid-90s. They said one of the years in the early '60s,while the Super Duty 421 was built. Pontiacs won 49 of 53 NASCAR races. At 8:19 I've heard & read that dual quad 13:1 421 in 1963 was more like 500 hp in reality
Pontiac had a race version of the 421 that used two 4 barrel carters with no idle circuit. The intake had a Corvair 2 barrel between the two 4 barrels for the idle circuit.
@@BuzzLOLOL it sure was. It’s only fall back was it could not turn a lot of RPMs, but for the most part it pushed some pretty big cars around quite quickly.
No argument from me, as to the overall exceptional line-up of Pontiac engines in that era...But I will say, that the 430 4bbl V8 offered by Buick during the later 1960s was just as satisfying as the 421 Pontiac. And maybe more durable, as my Dad's 67 Buick wildcat, with that huge V8-listed at 360 hp, lasted well over 300,000 miles!...and I have read, where dragsters favored this V8 for it's ability to be "juiced " up, hp-wise! Whatever, all three big manufacturers offered some mighty potent engines back then!
It was hard to get big HP out of that earlier Buick nailhead engine design, reason for Buick going with Olds/Pontiac/Cadillac engine design about 1965... Chevy also dropped their Ford-derived 348/409 engines for same reason about then... Dyno of (under rated HP) Super Duty Pontiac 421" engine: th-cam.com/video/gNg569agwiU/w-d-xo.html
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 76 | คู่เอก "ผึ้งหลวง vs สมิงดำ"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9SBshmGQOIM/mqdefault.jpg)
Fantastic cars and engines never to be seen again. Thanks, Adam.
I don't know what it is about Pontiacs compared to other V8s, but they were so reliable and bullet proof. Driving a 455 Pontiac vs. a 454 chevy is just a different experience.
Will always have a place in my heart for mid 60s stacked headlight Pontiacs. We had Bonnevilles, Catalinas, Grand Prixs, and Tempests
Many, many years ago, I had a 1963 Pontiac Catalina Ventura, 2-door hardtop, white with an auburn interior. Absolutely, the most beautiful car I have ever owned and, IMHO, one of the most beautiful cars of all time.
Loved my 1965 Lemans. 326 ci
Both the 421 and 428 were killer engines. Built a number of them, and they performed incredibly well.
I know someone who has a 1966 Grand Prix with the 421 in it. They’re very smooth running engines,
The very best V8 engine lineup,
326, 389, 421. Nothing else needed.
1960s Pontiacs were what the cool families of that era drove. They were so badass back then.. We'll never see the likes of that again.
I really liked my aunt's 65 Pontiac Grand Prix with the 8 lug wheels & the translucent steering wheel!!! 👍👍🙂
When GM divisions were truly unique
Love them old Pontiac’s!
Pontiac truly offered excitement to all at that time (mid 1960s) when you could buy an executive sedan with a big block and a 4 speed manual with a big wide bench seat in it. They had something for everyone. The illustrations are simply exquisite and not drawn far off from the real thing
wonder how many orderd a 4 door with a 4 speed ?
Pontiac never made a big block.
@@sherwinstaudt1881Oh, I thought the 421 or even the 389 were big blocks. Thank you for the lesson.
First ticket I ever got (at age 16) was in a '63 Catalina with a 389. This was in the summer of 1975. I had my provisional drivers license and my friend who bought the Catalina only had a learners permit. I got clocked going 73 in a 40 mph zone. That thing was deceptively fast and smooth. Lost my license for 6 months and had my insurance rates go up. My Dad was thrilled!
I had a ‘68 Catalina coupe with the standard 389 with a 2bbl. You’re right, it was a wonderful engine. I’m not sure of the horse power of the regular gas 389 that year but it was more than adequate. I took that from Long Island to Niagara Falls on my honeymoon and except for a flat on the Thruway, it ran great. I did, on the advice of my friend who was also my mechanic, replace that plastic timing gear. It was one of the smoothest riding cars that I have ever owned.
It had the 400 2 barrel. 265 horse. The premium fuel 2 barrel one was the 290 horse. And the 400 4 barrel, was 340 horse. GOOD MOTORS!
@@danielboone72 Thanks, Dan. You’re right, 389 was gone after 1966.
I bought a 1967 Catalina for a hundred bucks once with the 389 two barrel and it could spin tires for a half block. Wish I had it today.
Gotta luv the green on green catalina ! Absolutely stunning !
Love my 1966 421 TriPower that I installed in my 1966 GTO 😏
I learned to drive in my mom's 67 Firebird 326 2V and that car had enough power for anything we needed and my father towed a 21' travel trailer with his 67 Firebird 326 4V.
The chrome on the top-dog engines is just perfect!
Had a '67 Parisienne 2+2, !283 2v. The inside of the windshield was trimmed in chrome! A great old boat with baby moon hub caps.
A '63 Tempest Le Mans kicked ass at Daytona Speed Week, lapping the field of 'vettes, Ferraris, and everything else. Paul Goldschmidt averaged 145 mph in the rain.
Hi, could you investigate the pontiacs made in Australia during 60's. They were produced at the Pagewood plant in Sydney. I think they were Parisians that came CKD from Canada. This plant was very versatile and even made Frigidaire ovens and fridges. My family had connections to this factory.
Nice review.
I have a friend whose dad worked at the Linden plant in NJ, and saw his own 2+2 get assembled there, with the 421 engine. He loved the car, says it was very powerful, even for today. He also said they knew it was his car he ordered on the assembly line, and it got double spot welds and other extra attention. It's a cool story he has.
Add up
Love Pontiacs. I have a 1967 Firebird Convertible. Pontiac built very exciting cars over the years. It's sad that GM killed Pontiac. Pontiacs were styled very nicely and extremely attractive. Always innovative compared to the other GM brands. Thanks for a great video and historical review! You knocked it out of the park as you usually do. Keep up the GREAT WORK.
My Pops Bonnie was healthy. Did hundo from Minnesota thru. Dakotas to Colorado. Great memories 🙏🏻
Loved my 64 Bonneville Convert, 66 Bonneville Sedan and 69 GP LJ. Fantastic cars.
Pontiac has used cast connecting rods in many engines until 80s .
Blew up at drag strip a lot.
Once rods changed to forged they were excellent.
Yes but not the 421s
The Ram Air IV has a cast crankshaft.
@@drippinglass’m fairly sure, if any Ponti engine had forged shafts, it would be the IV
My 64 Catalina had the 389 4bbl was so smooth and quiet that long distance trips were so much easier with less fatigue making it a real pleasure.
My Dad bought a 1961 Bonneville in 1963. It had a 4 speed automatic. It was beautiful, reliable and fast. It is the car I would love to have today. Everything except the gas mileage and rusting was just great.
I had a colleage at conservatory who had a minty '66 4dr Bonneville (white) with the 421 3-2bbl rig. We'd go to gigs, and surprise a LOT of IROC Camaros in the mid 80s!
Funny that you mention the timing gear. I thought I remembered my dad saying that Pontiacs had bad timing chains that jumped time earlier than other engines. Now I know that I remembered correctly. I never understood the reason for the “plastic “ teeth on the gear anyway. Supposedly it was for noise reduction. But when we replaced them with metal gears, I’d be hard pressed to hear the difference. It was very minimal.
The fuel pump excentric failed on my brother's 68 GTO. I remember my dad replacing it when I was a kid
They probably did it as a cost reduction and sold it to the public as "quieter and gentler on the ear" or some horse hockey. Follow the dollar.
Those were the nylon-covered aluminum timing chain sprockets that just about everyone was using back then.
Yeah, the nylon covered cam gear was used by every manufacturer...even gear drives without a chain... I think it was because engines had gotten too reliable and they needed a minor internal engine failure to get people thinking about buying a new car again... of course, timing belts work even better for a quick failure...
@@andyharman3022 True. We just called them PLASTIC because they crumbled.
Pontiacs are some of the most beautiful cars ever built. Gorgeous chrome and sculpted body lines. Enjoyed this video very much!
Glenn "Fireball" Roberts, who ironically died due to burns from a crash in a '64 Galaxie 500.
There is also the '64 GTO 'ringer' used in magazine testing, perhaps against the Ferrari GTO, which was said to have a 421...
Some Pontiac dealers, such as Royal I believe, had packages which would put a 421 in your GTO.
Jim Wangers, a Pontiac ad agency guy, was known to throw lots of those 'ringers' at the car magazines in those days. Car & Driver tested the 64 GTO that you referred to, and then in 1965, pitted a 421 2+2 against a Ferrari 2+2 at Bridgehampton. Since the Pontiac already had the biggest engine, C&D got a Royal Bobcat car that supposedly did 0-60 in less than 4 seconds. Hmm.
Great memories. My Grandfather was an insurance salesman in Detroit Mi. Every 2 years he would get a new Pontiac. He had well over 20 new Pontiac's. In the later years were Catalina's with 2 barrel 389 and one of his last 400s. We had our share too. Dad had '63 GP, '66 Bonneville and a '69 GP (my favorite car). I had '69 Firebird 350 2 V. Miss those cars. Thanks for the memories.
One of the best videos you've made. I hadn't any idea whatsoever how beefy the Pontiacs were in the early sixties!
Yep, the first thing I do (if I am not going to completely rebuild an engine) is replace the nylon timing set with an all metal one. I most recently did this with my recently sold 1970 Buick Electra Custom convertible. While I was at it, I replaced the timing cover, and oil pump kit. TA performance makes NEW timing covers. Expensive but worth it.
Really? Had no idea. Those timing covers are hard to find!
@@RareClassicCars Used ones are. TA Performance has been reproducing them for over 20 years now.
Your appreciation and explanation of these engines results in exemplary cameo videos for Pontiacs!
I went to a car show as a kid in 1964 or 65 and the stunning centerpiece on a revolving stage was a gold Bonneville with mink stole carpeting.
i likes those bonneville. mid late 1960s.
Thank You Adam. Once again I´m lost for words on your Love and Passion for these long gone classic American car´s. Here in Europe we had the trope that American car´s were low tech land yacht´s with little power in comparison with our European sport car´s and sedans, which could only be driven gracefully in a straight line. But you have certainly openned my eye´s to these beautiful, elegant and powerful cars, Thank´s again.
A pet peeve of mine is the "advancement" of car technology in a direction that I don't think is an advancement at all. The complexity of modern cars is mind-numbing, and honestly, while I'm all about technology, there are some places where I draw the line. In my 2006 vehicle, there is so much safety reinforcement that it obstructs my vision - which oh by the way is a key component of my safety. To be honest, I don't even need power steering and power brakes. Had a 1967 Chevelle with zero power equipment, loved that car, greatly regret selling it. A straight-6 250 and a Powerglide, it wasn't going to win any speed contests, but that's not what I wanted it for.
God willing, I'll be in a place soon where I can buy 2-3 vehicles that I like to drive, that are simple and cheap and easy to maintain and repair, and run out my days not worrying about having to buy a solar-vegan-hybrid car that's refusing to drive me to the market because I've exceeded my allowed mileage for the week based upon my carbon credit score and how many times I used the air conditioning. Just let me drive the car. I miss driving real cars.
An excellent overview, Adam. Thank you for putting it together -- I learned a lot.
As the owner of a 1965 RHD (right hand drive) Canadian Pontiac Parisienne with the 283ci and power glide, as well as a version of the 1965 Impala dash it had 'clap hand wipers' though they were not articulated.
The 421 was only available through the 1966 model year. 1967 through 1969 cars got the 428 which was just a 421 bored out .030" to give 7 more cubic inches. The bore and stroke were both increased in 1970 to give 455 cubic inches and GM removed the 400 cubic inch limit on intermediate cars so you could get the 455 in a GTO or Firebird beginning in 1971.
Another bid difference was open and closed chamber heads some 67s had open but all 68 and after had them
I was never a GM fan, except for Pontiacs. I loved the early GTOs, but all of the stacked headlight models looked great! Wonderful video! Thank you!
Back in the good old days.
I am so completely jealous of your car collection! Outstanding my man.
When I first began to pay attention to cars in 1968, Pontiacs were my favorites. Maybe because the Monkeemobile was a custom Pontiac. They had the long and low design language down perfectly in 1965 with the Catalina and 2+2 on Kelsey-Hayes 8-lug wheels.
back in 69-70 south atlanta , I would go up to the shoney's big boy in forest park, every weekend it was a parade of hot rods, it was so cool
I miss that power steering from back then. You could turn the steering wheel with your little finger. The "new stuff" sucks. My friend's mom had a 62 Ventura and his dad had a 63 GP. Beautiful cars. I have always loved the 421. Excellent video. Thank You and your love for these cars really shows. I'd love to own one. Best Regards
Excellent review as always !! Guess those 421's had to use premium leaded fuel back in the day? I wonder how unleaded fuel affects engines those with 12- 13 compression ratios? Look at the 70's to see how far we have fallen in the HP race in the US. Things changed starting in 1971.
Trying to operate ANY engine long term designed to run on high grade leaded fuel will result in reduced power, spark knock, higher operating temperatures and ultimately ENGINE FAILURE. The 421 would suffer the same fate. The correct thing to do if you want the engine to survive if the car is driven frequently is to remove the heads and have a reputable engine machine shop install hardened valve seats and if a high performance engine, the rest of the valvetrain (if it was mine) also with modern parts designed for use with unleaded or worse, ethanol fuel. Sometimes, you can get by like Adam does since none of his collection are true daily drivers anymore is to buy lots and lots of lead additive and aviation fuel if your lucky enough to live near an airport that will sell it to you. Leads main purpose in old school gasoline was to provide lubrication for the exhaust valves for a quieter and smoother running engine.
@@rogergoodman8665 No. Lead, in the form tetraethyllead was developed as a cheap octane booster. Its use allowed the 120, 130 Octane fuels that gave Allied aircraft an edge after 1941. BTW they tried 140 and 150 octane as well but the lead fouling of exhausts and airframes required too much remediation without yielding a substantial improvement in power output. Any lubricating qualities were incidental.
@anthonyjackson280 didn't lead also provide a cushion for the valve seats?
@@larrynorsworthy8582 TEL had a number of knock-on effects (pardon the implied pun)but its primary purpose was always Octane boosting (following the work by British Engineer Harry Ricardo during late WW1 and early 1920's). The manufacturers were well aware of the dangers of resulting lead poisoning (the inventor himself fell seriously ill from it) but it was cheap and profits came first for GM and Dupont.
@@larrynorsworthy8582 incidentally to its main purpose.
Interesting as usual.
The description of the 389 2-bbl brings to mind my 1971 Le Mans Sport with a 350 2-bbl. I was always surprised at its peppiness when compared with similarly powered chevies and Fords. It had plenty of go!
Very articulate. Very enjoyable. You, Sir, have the heart of a real automotive enthusiast.
These were the glory days in American car manufacturing. The cars weren't just effective mechanically. They were (and yes, I'll use the French) objets d' art, although very large examples of such.
Canadian Pontiacs in late 50s and 60s were built on Chevy chassis, hence 283v8 and I had a 58 with 235L6. They also were never "Wide-Track" and I don't believe had the performance versions. We Canadians always looked in envy at the US versions we saw on TV!
USA Pontiac fans looked at the Canadian Pontiacs with envy with Chevy 425 HP 409 and 427" engines!
Beautifully Styled were The Pontiacs of this Era, with a Tremendous Engine, as well, Adam😀👏
Always impressed how you unlock memories, this time of my friend's & family's mid sixties Pontiacs. The info you bring, and have researched. That plastic timing gear, supposedly to quiet the cam drive, which you could never hear over the Pontiac exhaust. Watched that repair.
Love those high speed interjected edits on some specs. Both very human and an aficionado of accurate details.
Love your videos, and am grateful for the content you create and knowledge of automotive history that you share with us all…..
Hey Adam, your '66 Catalina looks amazing! I love seeing these great cars beautifully restored.
Even better is when you find one that's not in need of restoration.
Adam, totally agree with you about the goodness of the 1965 Pontiac engine offerings. You did state that you didn’t think any manufacturer offered a broader range than Pontiac. Chrysler Corporation offered the following for its full sized lineup in 1965; the 1 barrel 225 slant 6 making 145 horsepower; why anyone would want their full sized Plymouth or Dodge that underpowered is beyond me, but available nonetheless. A 230 horsepower two barrel regular fuel 318 V-8 was next, followed by the 270 horsepower regular fuel two barrel 383 V-8, the four barrel premium fuel 330 horsepower “Commando” 383 V-8, and a 365 horsepower four barrel premium fuel “Super Commando” 426 V-8. Were these engines “better” than the Pontiac V-8’s? I think the Pontiac engines were arguably smoother and quieter. And I’d take the Pontiac over any Chrysler product for everyday driving. My dad owned a 1965 Plymouth Fury III 318, Pontiacs were much more refined than the Plymouth. But that being said, there was a wide range of engines available from Chrysler Corporation.
You have some sweet Ponchos, Adam.
Owned A 65 2+2 Rag Top With The 421 2 Barrel Carter Carb. One Hell Of A Fast Car.
Had One Too, Yes It Was One Hell Of A Car.
Wonderful cars
When I was a kid I scored a 66 421 Catalina, for the motor to put in my 1980 formula . Motor mounts didn't line up and metric power steering lines .got it in there and it was a tire frier. Sonoco 93 octane only . First trip on the highway it overheated . Had to cram a radiator from a 1977 gran prix in it.
I love the dashes
Great video! I love Pontiacs.
I love these videos. I have always been a Buick/Olds/Pontiac person, and these videos are a breath of fresh air. Keep them coming!
Man.....I don't know what it is about Pontiacs. They intrigue me like no other vehicle. A defunct brand but happy to report, all my children that are under the age of 18, know the name Pontiac.
They were proud of what they made
I'd love to hands on experience all these.
Adam, this was a great watch, 1963 is my favorite year for Pontiac's. Great information, thanks for your time and work.....
I love Pontiacs built between 1960 and 1974. The 1974 Pontiac TRANS AM with the 455 SD Super Duty was the last of the breed.
@@MarinCipollina Would that be like the one from the movie Smokey and the Bandit?
@@jetsons101 No, sorry.. Bandit's was the 1977 which had the 6.6 liter 403 Oldsmobile engine with the automatic transmission. If you got the 4 speed manual you got the 400 cubic inch Pontiac T/A engine.
The 455 SD Super Duty was an actual full on racing engine with special hotter cam, solid lifters, forged crank and connecting rods.
In 1974 Pontiac TRANS AM also sold a non-SD 455 cubic inch V8 but that was the same engine you could get in a Safari station wagon.
@@MarinCipollina Thanks for info......
I had a 1963 Catalina 4 door hardtop with a 389 4bbl. It was hobbled by its "slim jim" transmission..
A former governor of North Dakota had some 60s pontiacs in his collection and that's where I first heard of the 421 and a 2+2.
Awesome had a 1967 Pontiac executive what a fun car to own . and 1969 Bonneville
This information was interesting. I was looking at the Pontiacs in the video and it hit me. Pontiac really was trying to do its own thing for the longest time. I took notice from the wheels and the instrumentation panels and other details. They did that well into the 1980's. I could say the 1990's, but the gray plastic interiors took away from some interesting ideas. I was watching and I could not keep the engine info straight in my mind. Kudos to you Adam for having that information memorized. I was singing Little GTO watching the videos as you shared the engines. Thank you for the video Adam.
Dyno dual quad Pontiac Super Duty 421" engine: th-cam.com/video/gNg569agwiU/w-d-xo.html
Another great video for Rare Classic Cars...
My dad had a '59 Catalina with a 421 shoehorned in- that car would haul!! Sadly, it was totalled when an oncoming driver had an epileptic seizure (his very first). My father escaped with a couple of broken ribs and little else WRT injury.
Heat video Adam keep them coming!!!
Great vid!!!!👍👍
Ain't nothing like a Pontiac
I'd forgotten about the plastic timing gears . Like many others I replaced mine with a steel version in my 66 GTO .
Great video!
Great video. I would like to see a video about manufacturers that have been eliminated since 2000 . Thanks.
It's soon too bad that the peak of GM was such a short lived era before the combination of cost cutting bean counters and regulations just wrecked this company. There are relatively few vehicles, here and there, that were really decent after 1970. The build quality and styling during that era was just so good.
Bean counters mostly. Still GM didn't really need five divisons, and they competed against themselves.
I am in strong agreement with your final statements about the industry "regressing" in terms of smoothness and power delivery. How about doing a video on ALL the Pontiac specialty engines including the ultra rare 427 and Ram Air V 400 and 303?
Drop one in a 1963 LeMans, hell yeah.
My dad street raced from 63-66 ( before he got drafted) and I recall him telling me that when the 421 came out, guys in Chicagoland were buying them otc to shoehorn into whatever they could get them in. 421s were known for breaking transmissions and U joints, because they had so much low end torque. The only Poncho we ever owned was a very used 70 Catalina Executive. That 1 had the std 400 2bbl with single exhaust but it was a real tire smoker when pressed and actually gave fairly good mileage for a full sized sled. I recall as a child that even in our worst winters, that car always started, 1/2 throttle pump, 3/4 crank and it was up and running. Sadly that car died due to a engine fire that seemed to be caused by a reputered fuel pump that sprayed gas all over the hot engine, in 1983. Dad said it looked like Christine...
SD 421 also had HP: th-cam.com/video/gNg569agwiU/w-d-xo.html
As tested the Rochester Q-Jet performed better than the 3-2bbl setup.
I would believe that. Pontiac seemed to use 3 tiny 2v carbs, yet Rochester made 2v carbs for cars like the 455 Olds. If Pontiac had used 3 of those carbs, or maybe even only on the secondaries, I'll bet that they could have gotten way more power.
I think it was Tom Cross Motors in Ulysses, KS had a 61 421 SD on display until 1971. Some guy from NJ talked them out of it.
always liked the powertrain spec pages did see a few GP WITH 4SPEEDS 62 .67.
My Dad told me , take those engines to the dump , need the room , so I took the 426 Hemi , the 421 Pontiac , and a 302 Boss motor to the dump , more or less complete fan to flywheel , my buddys still bring that up , at least once a year.
As a "CARNUT" since '51 and as an 8 year old with a newspaper route which included a '56 Imperial Limousine and Packard Carribean Conv. contend Pontiac's 421 SD may have been THE most powerful American V8 of all time?
Depends. Some might say the Hemi or ZL1 Chevy engine.
The applicable engineers and designers must have had a great time
Pontiac engines were all the same basic block from 326-421 (and later 400, 428 and 455). Whereas Buick or Chevy had to traverse 3 different basic blocks through the 60s and 70s. Chevy and Buick each had two different big blocks from the 50s and completely redesigned their big blocks by the mid 60s. Buick even had quite an evolution on their small block from 215-300/340-350.
To me it all started in 1961 with the bubble top coupe. I think it was the first year for the 8-lug aluminum wheels too. A 61 Catalina coupe with 4-speed was not a car you wanted to call out on the street ... 😁
A super duty 389 was available in '60, although the term super duty was not used. In '56, the second year of Pontiac's V8, they produced a small number of the Strato-Streak 317 cid/ 285 hp screamers.
Dyno of 421 Super Duty: th-cam.com/video/gNg569agwiU/w-d-xo.html
Good info.
OMG, My First car was a 66 Cataline 2 door hardtop with the same 290 HP engine.
Don't forget the "jewel toned Morokkide" interior..
I'm only going off of the History channel hour on Pontiac from the mid-90s. They said one of the years in the early '60s,while the Super Duty 421 was built. Pontiacs won 49 of 53 NASCAR races. At 8:19 I've heard & read that dual quad 13:1 421 in 1963 was more like 500 hp in reality
My favorite Pontiac’s! It’s too bad that GM couldn’t recapture the magic.
Pontiac had a race version of the 421 that used two 4 barrel carters with no idle circuit. The intake had a Corvair 2 barrel between the two 4 barrels for the idle circuit.
What was that h.p.?
@@unclebob7937 I don’t recall what the HP or the compression was. I’ll see if I can find the picture I have of this set up.
Dyno of a 1962 Super Duty Pontiac 421" engine (HP was way under rated):
th-cam.com/video/gNg569agwiU/w-d-xo.html
@@BuzzLOLOL it sure was. It’s only fall back was it could not turn a lot of RPMs, but for the most part it pushed some pretty big cars around quite quickly.
No argument from me, as to the overall exceptional line-up of Pontiac engines in that era...But I will say, that the 430 4bbl V8 offered by Buick during the later 1960s was just as satisfying as the 421 Pontiac. And maybe more durable, as my Dad's 67 Buick wildcat, with that huge V8-listed at 360 hp, lasted well over 300,000 miles!...and I have read, where dragsters favored this V8 for it's ability to be "juiced " up, hp-wise! Whatever, all three big manufacturers offered some mighty potent engines back then!
It was hard to get big HP out of that earlier Buick nailhead engine design, reason for Buick going with Olds/Pontiac/Cadillac engine design about 1965... Chevy also dropped their Ford-derived 348/409 engines for same reason about then... Dyno of (under rated HP) Super Duty Pontiac 421" engine:
th-cam.com/video/gNg569agwiU/w-d-xo.html
That Pontic hood scoop…