Thank you for your time & attention :) Full video notes with calibrated questions here: www.newelofknowledge.com/letters/why-venting-never-works-dealing-with-ventors-death-7-mins-read See you in the next one! Lew
I disagree that venting is always bad. Over-venting is always bad, a little bit of venting can keep someone from committing horrible acts sometimes you never really know. What never helps is droning on about something you cant do or don't like simply because you think everyone would love to hear about it, the newsflash for some people is that most people dont want to hear more than 10 seconds of anything like that. Just sum up your thoughts and move on, it's narcissistic to act like some main character that everyone must stop and support everytime you stub your toe on that one coffee table.
this reminds me of Berne's transactional analysis - parent-adult-child. like when someone vents, they may speak from their "Child" mode, perhaps to seek care from a "Parent." so an effective approach might be to offer empathy (providing care to their "Child") and then redirect the interaction to an Adult-Adult level by engaging their rational side.
yeah I imagined a cat for 20 seconds. He didn't say think of a picture of a cat. So my cat walked around and I imagined it from different perspectives, but I did imagine a "cat for 20 seconds"...
i thought about his kinda messy food place and his usual walking arrows throughout the house. And the annoyingly small difference between a storming down the stairs for greeting and storming down the stairs for the plz lemme out thing AND the storming down the stairs for just awaiting someone/yearning AND the haha nope curving away and further down into the basement kinda bored thing he does
Dang, in our circles, we don’t start by giving advice. We just let them vent. Then we take turns listening to each other. Hearing sob stories and showing empathy but also expressing logic has helped us. I’ve helped a few friends out of hard situations by giving them ideas and perspectives maybe I’ve seen firsthand. I’ve even solved my own problems by venting and then having the other perspectives given to me. Are we the only ones? Edit: isn’t seeing a therapist basically venting about things that bother you and finding out why they bother you? Solving problems you don’t even know that you have? Also I DID write this before I watched the whole video 😅
I also do this within my closest friend group. It has helped many of us tremendously, it even works better than therapy, because sometimes we know our friends better and can signal them and give another perspective on a problem.
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It's the social gathering that does you good. If you'd all go and play darts instead you'd get roughly the same results. And no, seeing a therapist is not about venting at all. It does often start with venting, because mud needs to leave the tube sometimes, but after that it's about identifying the patterns that lead to the need to vent, so to say, in order to prevent it altogether :p
I often find that a quick vent to someone I trust helps me to finally STOP ruminating over something in my own head.. I vent when something is on my mind ANYWAY and won’t leave so I’m reliving it anyways
Thank you. I now understand how I get it so wrong when my daughter is venting to me. I will be practicing on myself first to learn the technique.If only I had known these techniques earlier in my life!
That's genuinely so sweet that you thought of how you can better communicate with your daughter. It seems like many parents are just dismissive and unwilling to learn. You surely have a lovely soul.
I needed to talk and vent out my grief, it made me physically ill to hold it in but I didn’t have accepting people to talk to. I got a therapist and went to grief groups and it felt safe to speak it out and actually receive helpful feedback on how to overcome it. Most people give bad advice or don’t respond the way we want them to, it can keep us stuck. I just listen to people now without giving much advice at all because it is a waste of energy. Some people just wanna keep bringing up the past and why life isn’t working out, not have actual solutions. Great video.
I've actually never been there, that I remember of (wanting for the person to stop venting). I like to listen and let the person vent if they feel like expressing that. Certainly has helped me, I'm sure it has helped others as well. Nothing wrong with just showing validation and empathy without actively searching for solution. If it leads to unnecessary rumination of anxiety and pain, then sure there's better ways. But I don't think it's always going to lead to ruminating or negative loop. It's more about experiencing, practicing and expressing emotions, such as anger, in a healthy manner, and the other person being present with you. So I'll respectfully disagree on it always being a bad thing.
If you know how to listen, the other person's venting won't turn into a negative loop. If you are being smart, on the other hand...venting becomes the enemy. I think it is offensive to assume that the other person can't fix their problems and it is us they need for guidance. The whole premise of this video is offensive.
Agree. It's not always a bad thing. The loop can be cut off in the moment, when we gain understanding of what happened and why it happened. Sometimes venting might help with it. I experienced situation that stressed me, I was able to vent to someone who shared empathy and understanding, but also at the same time he/she saw the situation from another perspective and actually showed it to me, so I can really understand what happened and why. That really does calm my emotions and solves my cognitive needs, rather than only burning me again. If I'm venting to someone and I can see he/she does not listen to me, or just shows bland empathy, throwing at me pointless and empty phrases like "oh, I'm so sorry, that must suck", I don't vent anymore, seeing that it has no positive outcome and there's no point of doing it. If we look at it from the other side, the other person might perceive it as an interesting content. If it's not 15th vent in a matter of a week about the same issue, but a new story that happened, it might be actually interesting, right? I'm telling a story, putting a problem, we go for understanding of what happened and why, looking for a solution and observe it's outcome. Agree, that sometimes people don't want to leave behind the problem that are venting about, it becomes just venting for venting, which is boring and always wrong. But if the person venting is actually looking for solutions, it might be interesting, constructive and helpful.
LMHC here - I watched this with a little trepidation at first, but the entire video quickly put that trepidation at ease. A bit of nerdy neuroscience as to why trying to meet their venting with logic (and that includes internal venting to self) is an unproductive idea: those emotions are a subcortical process. The prefrontal cortex’s job is to inhibit those processes. Trying to “logic” the emotions can cause them to shut down before they’ve had a chance to discharge properly (think shutting off the power to a house before you’ve had a chance to properly close out programs on your computer). The validation and calibrated questions is a great way to help facilitate the discharge process 😊
I feel like I needed this today, as a nice reminder to handle hardships better. Gotta call myself out for this one, sometimes I just have a good vent session, and I understand that there’s a fine line between “hey can we talk I’ve got something on my mind and I need someone else to hear me out” and then there’s [insert three hour rant about personal issues]. I’ve come to think that about 20-40 minutes is the max a vent session should reasonably go on, both for your own and the listener’s benefit. And that’s entirely subjective, that timeframe can be different for everyone
I think unless you’re a professional of some sort (doctor, therapist, financial adviser, lawyer), you should NEVER start with where YOU want to lead them. If they are coming to you in distress, you should find out (or help them find out) what THEY want. If I had a friend or family member, and I’ve had my share, who is leading me towards what they want me to do, it never helps, and has over time led to broken relationships. It’s hubris to think we know better than the other person what they need or want.
Truth. I've found that when I listen to someone vent long enough, many times they come up with ideas of what they should do on their own. I don't really have to say anything.
100%. Fantastic point. I've been going through a lot lately, and the ones who have helped me are those who helped me figure out what I need, as opposed to others who thought I needed this or that. Thank you for pointing this out 😊
@@requinremembers Totally agree! You just laid out what I believe is the main benefit of venting. Giving the distressed person an avenue to release the pressure, achieve clarity in the process, and potentially identify themselves what they need to do😊
@@tjjavier Thanks, glad you agree! I do think it requires a certain amount of introspection, etc for a venting person to be able to do that. Some people vent just for attention, or to hear themselves talk..in those cases they probably won't come to the right conclusions. But the 'right' person (maybe that's the person who really does want answers, somehow) can often untangle the knot easier by talking it out. :)
It's amazing how many videos i've seen this new year. Everyone has a strategy to cope with just being a human being. You need to do this and that, and not feel this way or that way. Is this Hell and no-one told us?
There is no hell and no heaven. There is this and this just is. Unfortunately we have the capability of imagining better things and so we always think there is better.
i think saying that venting is always a bad idea is a bit unfair. i get where this is coming from, and i've certainly seen venting go wrong more than once, but i've also seen and experienced it help people a lot. yeah venting on someone out of nowhere is probably not a good idea, me and my friends always just ask first (and we do say "no" sometimes, not everyone is always in the mood for other people's problems and that's fine). this lets the other person prepare for it mentally. sometimes i just wanna talk shit about my work or whatever and hear "yeah man i get you", sometimes i want someone to actually help me with some problem i have. it helps when you have a close and intimate relation with your friends, and you understand each other. venting has certainly helped me more times than it did not, and my friends venting on me is nice too because i can feel good about myself and feel like i'm helping, with very little effort.
Is there a difference between venting and just calmly telling a good friends about some problems you're going through if you're going through tough times? Seems you should be able to share if you've got a lot on your mind (I don't mean ranting for quarter of an hour about a parking ticket..). Are you saying you can only talk about positive/happy or neutral things with them? Is genuine communication not important..? Edit: interesting video, thank you, some good points to consider, have finished watching it now.
I think this is an awesome counter argument. I have some thoughts, but I'm gonna do the typical cop out thing and ask you what you think? Because I'd be interested to see if you already have an idea of an answer.
@@NewelOfKnowledge Thanks :) Well, you kind of answered it at the end, ie.if you insist on doing it, at least do it with the right person! My recent thoughts on it were also choose the right person, and rather than just emotionallly wallowing in your problems, explain what you're going through with a bit of detachment from the situation, accept any empathy going, and listen thankfully to advice (without necessarily accepting it - judge in your own mind if it is useful or not). And don't go on and on about it. But of course those things may be harder at some times than other, eg. if you're right in the middle of a crisis situation. Also remember to be there for the other person too, and to be positive and constructive when you can as well, and avoid having relationships where you only ever talk about your problems.
I’ve seen several videos you’ve produced, very articulate, a laser focus on being reasonable in relationships & non judgmental. Unusual in today’s polarising society. I’m 59, & people are my drug of choice. You speak and demonstrate a lot of sense, well done younger man.
I was disagreeing with the beginning of this video, but once you moved onto *how* to vent better and be a better listener to venters, I love how you explained it!! I have countless stories of me venting to strangers and them giving me insight and advice which helped a lot and made me feel so heard and seen. I also have countless stories of strangers venting to me, and through their venting they either gave me awesome advice as well (sort of cautionary tale type of advice) and I’ve also had people tell me that my advice triggered an epiphany in them. Most of these happened while I was traveling (I lived as a backpacker & nomad for a few years throughout 4 different continents). Yes, I can also look back and think of how embarrassing or annoying I acted towards some of those people (and them towards me), but the benefits outweighed that, most times. When it comes to the venter, the key is absolutely about *who* to vent to and *when*.. don’t vent at a party or special event, don’t continue venting to someone who’s clearly trying to stonewall/ignore you or looking for an “out” of the conversation, and don’t vent unless you genuinely haven’t vented about that topic before and need insight, and don’t vent about your cautionary tale to someone who doesn’t need that advice. I also think it’s about *how* you vent. If you’re just saying “this is so horrible” “that girl was so perfect and now she’s gone” etc, that’s very negative and it only really leaves the listener with one option-to empathize and comfort you. Instead, it’s best to vent with introspection and genuine questions towards the problem. “My girl left me and I don’t know why I can’t get over her, it hurt so much and I don’t know why I’m holding on so tight, because the relationship clearly was not healthy” opens up the listener to be able to give much more nuanced advice or support than if you just said “I’m terrible and pathetic and nobody loves me”.
Hello Lewis! I sincerely hope all is well in life. Even when it is cold! 🥶 I have found myself in this loop so many times I’m laughing at it, because I never knew what it was and what it meant why I came away from venting feeling worse. Now I know, and I feel relived I’m not alone in this, as you experienced this to! I’m glad we can practice this on ourselves especially if we do not have someone who could do it this way for us. So thank you for adding that! Keep being awesome! You and your channel make me smile! Thank you! ❄️🩵🌲
You showed at 6:18 how sharing thoughts and feelings about a traumatic event can lead to this negative circle. But shouldn‘t it help to talk about traumatic events in order to cope with them? Shouldn‘t bad thoughts or traumas have room, so we can process them and get rid of them in the long term? Because stuffing them in your unconsciousness isn’t the solution either. Correct me please if I’m wrong. Would like to hear your take on it. Btw great video as always :)
100% agree. But the key thing is to unpack such traumatic events with a professional who will help you do so in a safe and productive manner, not with people who will rush to give you quick advice (on the internet). Thanks for your support :) and great question.
@@NewelOfKnowledge I tried doing exactly that (unpacking my negative emotions with a therapist) today. She jumped straight to solutioning and gave advice that could have long term negative consequences (complaining to our school principal and demanding they change something). I told her that I thought it was inappropriate to give that advice and that I was just looking to express my frustration and make space for my negative emotions. She told me it was outrageous that I was trying to run the session and ended the session. Um, by which I mean, I guess I wish I could send her this video? And unfortunately not all professionals are professional.
Have to disagree with you on this one. Venting is often healthy and a good friend will listen. It does make you feel better. Obviously there are people who take it to the extreme and it can be unhealthy (like anything can be) but sometimes you just need to let it out and have someone hear you. Saying it's ALWAYS a bad idea is bad advice.
You have a point, telling others about a problem you've had isn't fundamentally harmful. But I think by venting he meant doing it in an extreme and unhealthy way, which from the definition is harmful. It all boils down to how we define "venting" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@michaklimas6285 my issue is the title saying it is ALWAYS a bad idea, which I disagree with. The title might be designed to generate clicks but when discussing these kinds of issues using absolutes is not helpful or accurate. That said I generally enjoy his content.
I didnt see 'always' in the title. He just said it's worse than you think. Worse doesn't mean something is fundamentally bad, but just that it is not as good in comparison to something better
Listening and validating to someone in distress does not equal co-rumination.. and I find it fascinating that you liken “listening and validating” to a hostage situation.
This reminds of a funny video from a few years back, where a man and his female friend/partner are sitting on a couch, and she’s venting to him about this particular problem that’s stressing her out, causing her mental and physical pain, and clouding her thoughts. As it turns out, she has a nail lodged in her forehead. The man attempts to tell her several times that it’s the nail causing all of these problems, and if she just takes the nail out she’ll be fine. However, she constantly interrupts him, refusing to listen to him, and repeats that she feels like she’s not being heard by him. 😂
Nothing good has ever come of me telling my feelings to other people. I have learned that my pain is not welcome in others hearts. I don't even try anymore. I actively try to just suppress.
Do the studies even distinguish if the venters were allowed to vent around safe people? It makes a difference if you are met with belittleling and invalidation. Also, isnt therapy mostly venting?
I like this. It’s like you’re taking emotional dumping and turning into focused problem solving. It was a bit hard to understand how to effectively lead the conversation this way, but I’m going to give it a shot the next time I get the chance!
I mean if way you overdo it with like "everyone" and "everywhere" and it's just a bad habit... but at times you just need to unload, even if very infrequently. The next step once you're done is take a deep breath and reflect on the reasons you did it and what parts were relevant, and what it actually means.
5:30 in and I’m in absolute stitches 😂. I love laughing at myself, laughing at humanity and our struggles which is precisely why I’m subscribed. Newel of Knowledge nails our nincompoopery.
This video isn't about venting. It's about problem solving. We all vent but we rarely listen to the solutions we vent about. I've lost friends because they vent to me, I give them perfectly sound advice and they go out of their way to do the exact opposite. Maybe if I knew some of the things in this video I could have actually helped them.
I'm convinced at this point that healthy relationships are only possible with people who try to better themselves. I'm usually swept away by other people's bad mental states and it can seriously decrease my quality of life if someone keeps on rambling and complaining all the time. If it's someone close to me, I usually try to sort things out with them and look for practical solutions (logical ones never work). But it's mostly the people who keep on venting about the same problems who are least interested in changing anything about their situation and just WANT to complain. This is very frustrating, as my reflex is to spend a lot of time to think about THEIR problems; this is something no one but a psychologist should do (because they are at least getting payed for it). At some point I decided to simply not give a shit about their venting anymore (in the sense of not reacting to it or thinking too much about it at all). This feels uncomfortable, yet seemed to be more effective than to show actual "empathy" which just seemed to reinforce the venting. It makes people reflect more on what they are saying instead of feeding the fire.
When you vent, other parts of your brain process the information and help you find new solutions to the problem. So does the advice of a willing ear. Even if their advice isn't right, a brainstorming session can ensue, and solutions abound.
I truly enjoy most of your videos and find them helpful, but this hasn't been true for me at all and following similar advice has been harmful to me and my relationships. I've tried not venting before, worrying the same thing as you present, that 1. I'm making things worse for myself, and 2. I'm being a burden on others (primarily my partner), and not doing so lead to negative outcomes. It's not true for me at all that venting makes me relive the experience, the opposite. By not venting at all, or even trying to just journal it out, it keeps the feelings inside and they begin to rot and fester, increasing feelings of depression and anxiety. Letting it out, venting about it, releases it all and I feel much better, I do not relate to feeling like I'm reliving it or making it worse. It also lead to feelings of guilt around my partner, I wanted to vent but I felt like I was being a bad partner in doing so, which lead to me feeling more emotionally closed off from my partner with higher feelings of depression. My partner noticed this and I explained it to them. My partner replied they didn't mind my venting at all, but that they do appreciate a "heads up, I'd like to vent, are you emotionally available for that?" Since then it's been a lot better, I feel that I can rely on my partner for some emotional support while not being a burden to them, I can get out my feelings to another human being without letting them eat away at me from the inside. Lastly, I very rarely mind listening to somebody else venting myself. It doesn't bore me or frustrate me, (Okay, maybe if they're venting for the millionth time about an issue that is in their control to change.) I enjoy being a space for someone to emotional balance themselves, I don't mind it at all, it's all part of the package for me.
I love you and your channel ❤ I'm not British, but I have a British friend who practices reflective listening with me. Honestly, I find it really frustrating, and I can't seem to get him to stop. I’d rather people just listen without repeating everything I say like a parrot-it’s incredibly annoying. I guess it's a cultural difference, but I still love him 😊. Edit: Oh, I see the problem now! He should reflect back to me in his own words instead of just repeating what I say. Got it! Thank you again for such valuable life lessons 👍👍👍
Very interesting… I’ve heard that the British stiff upper lip was what helped the population cope better during the Second World War. The fact that people didn’t talk about things they were going through but just carried on, helped. It’s so counter to what we’re told to do today.
You may not be aware of the 'Keep calm and carry on' poster, which has spawned all sorts of variations. It was designed in the eventuality of a successful German invasion.
Then you’re most likely going to people seeking the validation and empathy. Like he said, that’s part of why we vent to others, I can tell when I often just want someone to hear me and say “that must be hard” which is totally ok to want!
From the other side - My friend came up with this idea: Potato Helping. If someone is trying to give you good advice, and you can see how much they care and how much energy they're expending trying to help, stop them and say "Thank you for trying to help, I appreciate how much you're doing to help. But I need you to stop, because you're potato helping. What I really need right now is (support, hugs, a shoulder to cry on, etc.)" It acknowledges that they are trying to be helpful, letting them know that they're not achieving the outcome of helping you, and giving them clear and direct advice as to what you actually need.
If your venting to someone who thinks like this dude does for the first minute then yeah venting won’t help cos that person is horrible. In a healthy vent you listen and allow space, you don’t just give shitty advice to get the venter to shut up, that’s an awful friend.
You just describe me. This is how my life is everyday. Stressed. Miserable. Annoyed. Not depressed just unhappy. When i vent i feel better. But i never thought how the other person views me when i vent to them.
You feel with them, lean into the emotion, make them feel heard and validated. You use empathy, then you start detaching emotionally a little bit and look at things from bigger and multiple perspectives. Giving you more clarity. Me and my lil sis have perfected this. I‘m a gemini who loves to understand all perspectives, but my aries moon is hella impulsive. Here is where my sister complements me; my sister has an aquarius stellium, she is much better at detaching from emotions and seeing the big picture; while staying her empowered empathic self. I always feel good sharing with her and usually feel empowered and even more compassionate after talking with her.
I used to not mind people venting to me. But now I notice it drains my energy. Especially when you guide them to your advice and they never take it. And then next time they're venting about the same thing again. 😮💨😮💨
Id love to see a video about how to be able to focus and study , why is it so hard to even start to study especially when you grow up as a gifted kid that have never had the necessity to do so
i'll be honest. cautionary tale time: about a decade ago i had my most stellar hour when it comes to really, no REALLY!!! making a clown out of myself. wont go into the full story, but it started with being in a completely new social environment and bringing my personal disdain and hatred for a neighbor lady (that simply wasnt fainting over the thought of going to bed with me) to those new people, at that point still strangers. followed by a much bigger meltdown over a heartbreak thing and that i took even more out into the public. i didnt air my dirty laundry, no, it was diarrhea soaked laundry i showed to everyone. figuratively. you do this only once. at SOME point either people stop talking to you OR you will bit by bit realize on your own that this understanding smile and patient listening is just self-control to not outright vomit into your face. because thats what youre doing. you vomit emotionally onto people without a warning. lesson learned. i hope. maybe.
Helping someone work toward a solution is wonderful, my advice is that you ask them if they need or want your advice. They may already have a solution formulated. The need to listen and be heard (when appropriate )is human and necessary. Suppressing painful emotions causes a variety of mental and physical issues. Narcissists tend to be uncurious and generally bored when listening, to gain control back, they typically offer unsolicited advice. …and Co ruminating is a different animal. This video lacks the context and specifics, venting can mean many things
I dont thing venting is _always_ counterproductive. It depends on who you vent to, how the other person handles the vent, and how you handle their reaction. Its kinda like a skill i guess xD
Thank you, really helpful advice. I've been stuck in the co rumination cycle and now i finally have a way to bring balance back to my really valuable friendships ❤
venting (speaking about problems that bother us) is actually a very useful psychological technique for processing and healing trauma and for abuse victims and for people going through tough times.. it can be a very healing thing to do, especially if the person listening to the person talking is supportive and compassionate and validates the person who is talking about their problems, and even more helpful if potential solutions, or wisdom, is shared by listeners there are many academic studies that show this this guy in the video does not seem to be aware of this at all
I just stumbled upon this and coincidentally, I've had two people venting to me today about different things and I used different techniques in each situation. In the first, my sister had a fight with my mum and was venting about it. I was very empathetic but I didn't offer any advice. The second, my ex was venting about his parents meddling in his relationship with his girlfrend. I was the opposite. I had to tell him to stand up for himself and not be a coward. I think I was too harsh because I could relate to his girlfriend. After watching this, I feel like I did bad in both situatioins. (Sorry for my bad English. It's not my mother tongue.) Thanks for the video! I will try to do better in the future.
Forcing unsolicited advice on someone with the human need to be heard and validated is rarely helpful, and can often be damaging. If you care about the person, listen to them. It’s not hard.
just to add... a lot of people only want to vent - they are not analyzing to root out the source of problems (dont conflate complaint with problem solving - it's often not) a lot of people get an emotional/social high from rightesouly venting (ie being right by proxy - ie paint the offender in a negative light) a lot of people will talk regardless who is there - so, in a way, it's not really social - which means why are you there a lot of people have been and will continue to complain about the same types of things or even the same people and problems for years
Firslly I think your videos are really awesome. Secondly people who vent have an emotional need to process whatever they are going through, and if you choose not to talk about whatever problems you have you will find it much harder to process them. You are rigjt about needing the correct foil, and I'm wondering if it's possible to help oneself when venting by telling your foil what you want from them. Thirdly, when you're asking the ventor some questions, I've played with the idea of asking targeted hypothetical questions such as "what would happen you feel if you were to do xyz?" I've found hypotheticals a very effective negotiating strategy in business matters in some circumstances and I'm sure the same could be said for personal matters with a bit of thought and delicacy.
Theres an optional way to negotiate in business where you use "force and pressure", also these negotations can be slightly psychologically violent. I see that in a lot of leaders and negotatiors in the corporate world. Personally I have fought back by "putting people in order". I like these soft skill videos, as they are a more human way to negotiate, and defuse conflict.
Makes me realize that I can’t confide on anyone even in my family because my voice naturally rises when I’m venting. Having a high pitch automatically lowers their opinion of you 😭
I think when youre venting at someone who you think would have lower opinion of you for it, your expecting a fight, and your body naturally goes in heightened response, that includes becoming higher pitch. You can’t really control that part. What you can control is who you think it’d be safer to vent to regarding context you’re in. Sometimes, like with not so receiving family, it can be hard to find that safety. But you’ll find it, as long as you’re continuing your own quest.
As an HSPP, I’d like to offer a different perspective. You mentioned that venting is problematic because people prioritize emotional needs over cognitive ones. However, it’s natural for people to seek understanding before they’re ready to consider solutions. Feeling understood often empowers individuals to discover their own answers. Active listening supports this process and doesn’t require complex strategies. Citing research on discussing extreme trauma immediately after it occurs doesn’t directly apply to everyday situations. I’ve genuinely appreciated your earlier content, but you’re approaching a sensitive topic with more confidence than care.
This is pretty toxic. It is manipulation and pretending an inability to empathize is actually care. I get that some people get stuck in the comfortableness of being gloomy and stuck (excusing them not taking action), but they are then exhibiting signs of a greater problem - pure lack of confidence that may be rooted in trauma.
In the wrong hands definitely can be used for manipulation. However I would argue if ones intention is to just help without any gains, this is a skill and flow helps in removing misunderstandings, even help to be more empathetic to the person venting, and give a solution that have both listener and venter to find something that suits and help the venter, and not something that the listener gains from I say this being someone that used to and always keep making misunderstandings despite wanting to help and hurt the person further. What NewelofKnowledge says of using "Why" questions does give misunderstandings of being intrusive is really true. As for empathy there is a lot of different types of it and also highly based on one's own experience. I can sympathize someone that went to war, but as someone that have never experienced it, I won't be able to fully and deeply feel. I can try to simulate their events and imagine it, but its a fine line of actually empathizing and projection, giving needless harm inflicted on one self as it takes you away from listening to the venter. Having these curated questions help to really listen tot the venter and what they are saying, clarifying their stance and be there for them. And if the listener realizes from the queries that they are not fit to help , be it just not having the experience or understanding of the situation, they would know not to give a solution to the issue, can still give other forms of support like a space for them if things hit the fan.
Not everyone is good at being empathetic, it’s not always intentional. It could be their nature or from their experiences. The fact the person is “pretending” to be empathetic may show that they actually do care, instead of just brushing the other person off, at least they are trying to appear empathetic. And sometimes, for those that lack empathy, it’s a learning process, this could potentially teach someone *how* to be empathetic. The toxicity really depends on the person, maybe the person wants to be helpful for their friend or maybe they just want their friend to shut up. And please understand that just because a person lacks empathy does not mean that they aren’t sympathetic and understanding. So it doesn’t automatically make them a villain either.
@ the whole point of this exercise as it is being laid out is to make the friend stop complaining and take (the) action that the person this is aimed at deems the x right one - which inherently becomes an issue if that person themselves are unable to empathise, and thus give proper advice. To feign empathy in this manner does more harm than good. You can absolutely be curious and inquisitive regarding the friends struggles (and that could help develop empathy I guess), so why not just do that. Oftentimes the friend needs to work things out together with someone and the answers will come to them from that process. Not feeling alone is the main goal. They can't be "understanding" if they lack empathy, even if they are sympathetic in nature. But sympathy is rather cheap when it comes to advice.
I really appreciate your proposal of how to be a good listener. But there is one important detail to keep in mind: The method was developed by the police to deal with problematic individuals, and as such in its nature is interested in establishing the own goals through psychological means. In real life, you mostly seek to maintain a healthy equal-level relationship. This relationship is bidirectional and you do not want to force your thoughts onto others through psychological tricks. I think the method is still good for this, but the big change i propose is not to have a clear goal in mind, but rather use the questions to better explore their situation, which may in turn also change your advice/goal at the end. A constructed example: They never told you they got hit by their partner, so at the start you think the complaining is hypocrisy and your goal is to keep them together. But after the talk you may need to reaccess you own standpoint.
I gave that person my honest truest advice because I’ve been there, but they just don’t want to take in the effort and just continue venting and ranting, if you don’t take in the effort to live, then die?
This video has been a great refresher for me on how to listen and empathize more productively... or advise more empathetically, lol. I would like to say, however, that I disagree with the very last tip, to ask advice in front of the person you're trying to help, because it is kind of passive aggressive, in my opinion. I also appreciate how you shared with us how to receive someone who is venting, but you did not clearly establish the first point as being “venting is bad if you do it wrong” through your wording. It came across to me as “sharing your feelings always makes things worse” which is both untrue and would invalidate the rest of your video. Ahem, what I mean is, what were you hoping to convey about venting in the first part of the video? From my perspective, the sharing of emotions and recieving validation from others isn't bad, but it becomes annoying when done excessively without an intent to improve (leaves the listener helpless and the venter continuously frustrated as mentioned). Regardless of whether you share or not, if you're not ready to take strides to change your situation, you will feel worse regardless! I wish that this was stated more clearly instead of focusing on the sharing itself being the issue. The studies may be showing a correlation between people who vent a lot and people who don't know how to validate their own feelings and aren't ready to take action. Thanks for reading my two cents!Stay playful and dangerous 🫡
This is really helpful! Hopefully will try it out on one of my co-workers who's venting to me everyday and keeps ruining the mood. Unfortunately I just couldn't put any valuable answers because he didn't even let me to speak.
Plenty of conclusions were jumped by this gentleman I see. One is the necessary linearity of thought, the other disbelief of the other when they say they understand. By jove, even if one cannot completely understand another, saying it helps, believe or not.
Looking good, Newel. This is based on the video's title mostly. I saw a short on this from Healthy Gamer GG (have yet to fully watch THIS video) but in his short video, he basically said that when you vent, you make it to be "done with" in your brain, so you won't put effort into changing things, because in your brain "it's already sort of resolved". It was a big moment for me, because it unlocked this part of me that could, in weird terms, make "shame" useful for me as a tool to get out of my bed instead of just trying to "digest" the shame. In other words, when I felt ashamed, instead of trying to just get it off my chest, I could actually just do something, motivated by the shame.
@@bingobongo4561 ok, i think my comment didn't go through " The Neuroscience of Venting @TheDiaryOfACEO" by HealthyGamerGG there's obviously more to it than just "DON'T VENT!" (it's a short after all), but essentially, if you recognize you are in a cycle of venting, that's the point you should begin to potentially use your negative emotions for action.
It depends on the relationship you have. If people know that they can tell you to give it a rest, then it can be fine. Part of caring about someone is caring about the problems that they're having
This seems very much like the Socratic method. There are two facets to that method from the famous philosopher: 1. The first is that during (or perhaps before) a debate, Person A should be able to explain Person B's perspective, to Person B's satisfaction (and vice-versa). 2. The second is the notion of asking questions which push the other person into framing their own beliefs in words - so as to illustrate the consequences of these beliefs.
Great point. I'd say there's a caveat; venting is always going to be a bad idea if the person you're venting to is either just being empathic or just being practical. Venting will be useful if you vent to someone who first shows you empathy and then helps you alter your perspective. Thanks for pointing this out.
@@NewelOfKnowledge Venting is a waste of energy in most cases, in my experience, because it doesn't change anything, and anyone who could help won't and anyone who wants to help can't. I try to save my venting for youtube. Lol. On my other channel... created in large part to let me be _me_ , as opposed to videos of clouds, birds, bunnies, trains, sunrises, etc on this channel. That said, sometimes hearing your conundrum or gripe aloud can help you realize you do, actually, have a good reason to vent (or perhaps don't have a good reason to vent). I'm 55, and tend to now give off the "angry mom" or "angry grandma" vibe when I vent in person, which I find... mildly amusing... when I (rarely) tear a strip off someone face to face. Aka "vent". 😂 (Giving someone a well earned hard smack on the back of the head is considered "assault"). I think venting depends very much on the person, their "audience", the ages and stages of both, their relationship, energy levels, expectations, etc. As a young person, I was very much a, "Aw, f- it" type who just moved on instantly / walked away / got on with life. But now that I'm old and have put up with waaaay too much carp (and repeat situations and "types" of people), I now tend to re-evaluate throughout my days if venting is worth the energy. Yay or nay. 🤔 Sometimes, even if I can't spare the energy, I vent anyway. Some things are worth it. But then there's venting and there's VENTING. And I've also been toying with sarcasm, though I'm not very good at it so far. Dark "humour" is also something I'm looking into.
5:46 Dear NewelOfKnowledge, I see coming up with a random example must‘ve felt vulnerable. … How do you think this example might‘ve helped you in the moment and how do you think you could possibly repeat it on your own? … My therapist told me that writing or journalling about random examples can help eleviate the stress asociated with them possibly ending up in videos :)
To 'vent' means to allow gases, liquids to pass through a confined space. It is usually associated with the release of overheated, unpleasant, harmful, and poisonous air.
Very interesting video. Seem to have caused a lot of emotional reaction in people. Including me. Impressive to do that without having to do clickbait 😉😂 I loved the point about co-rumination, and how being logical immediately, makes other people feel dismissed. Supporting eachother in helpful ways is something that most people seem to not know how to do. Someone already pointed out the calibrated questions being more in the intention of finding what is most helpful for the person. And I know even psychologist can start the cal. q's and have to change path as they find new information that means another direction would be better. From a perspective of emotional focused psychology. To validate and reflect someones emotions may actually mean that they come in more contact with it, it grows, is released and then calms. After that happens, new perspectives or advice often comes to people automatically. This is how it mostly works for me. However, i think co-rumination happens mainly with secondary emotions. Cause releasing those without getting to the primary emotion = feeling worse or no relief and often ruminating. I just want to speak up for how sometimes validating and reflecting is actually enough and means the person themselves start asking calibrated questions. However, i think its helpful to know that emotions speak of needs. Without that, very likely to not work. I understand why most your videos are an hour long because in order to fit this in 20 min. You have to focus on one path and summary. While I'm sure you could have spoken about the different aspects and exceptions for way longer. Thank you for awakinging thoughts and for the loud laughs!
wrong...venting is often a really great idea.. especially when someone is being abusive to us or we are trying to recover from trauma.. it can help us IN A MAJOR WAY to process trauma, especially if the listener is empathic and supportive you REALLY should study some ACTUAL psychological kiterature on this with peer reviewed studies
I strongly disagree. We as humans are, and always will be, overall emotional beeings. Venting is totally normal. It's not alway about finding a rational solution. Meeting your emotional needs is a solution in itself. And if you got yourself only friends, that can't just listen for once, and instead have to solve every problem and otherwise can't handle your venting, they are bad friends. Because sometimes only listening without finding a solution is a solution in itself. (Which of course excludes problems, that frequently come back. That is when you really need a rational solution.)
Damn, I’m going to struggle even more when choosing the people I vent to. 😂But it’s for the best. Amazing video, thanks!🙏🏼 btw the cat meditation took me to Syria lol
Disagree. Yes, many people react to venting like you described, annoyed. But that is because people are stupid. If you can read between the lines, you can learn much about world and the person talking. That can be useful.
Although I was turned off by the title of this one, the points were fairly solid. Thank you for doing what you do! Also- if you haven't found her through the algorithm yet, I'd recommend Heidi Priebe to you- I feel like y'all's YTs complement each other well.
Thank you for your time & attention :)
Full video notes with calibrated questions here:
www.newelofknowledge.com/letters/why-venting-never-works-dealing-with-ventors-death-7-mins-read
See you in the next one!
Lew
I disagree that venting is always bad. Over-venting is always bad, a little bit of venting can keep someone from committing horrible acts sometimes you never really know. What never helps is droning on about something you cant do or don't like simply because you think everyone would love to hear about it, the newsflash for some people is that most people dont want to hear more than 10 seconds of anything like that. Just sum up your thoughts and move on, it's narcissistic to act like some main character that everyone must stop and support everytime you stub your toe on that one coffee table.
I like listening to my friends vent if they are going through something
That means it rarely happens
@@Ryan-xq3kl maybe they are just venting, not openly ruminating.
if they are going through something I guess it's fine, but I avoid listening to those friends who are CONSTANTLY going through something every day
❤
I vented to a random lady at the gas station, now we cool af. Being vulnerable makes friends :)
Sometimes lol
The way I see it, if they don't appreciate your vulnerability, they likely weren't going to mesh with your vibes, anyway. :-)
@@patchoulicolt7093I've been cringing over venting to someone I like recently, this made me feel better :]
I actually don't mind people venting to me, but also just like watching people, be people and not everyone is like that.
I'm a great venter, even if I accidentally enter in a cycle and I can't leave it. This is just a drug for me D:
this reminds me of Berne's transactional analysis - parent-adult-child. like when someone vents, they may speak from their "Child" mode, perhaps to seek care from a "Parent." so an effective approach might be to offer empathy (providing care to their "Child") and then redirect the interaction to an Adult-Adult level by engaging their rational side.
That's a good approach, rather than just shutting them down
"You probably didn't just think of a cat"
don't underestimate my ability to follow instructions very literally
Golden comment
yeah I imagined a cat for 20 seconds. He didn't say think of a picture of a cat. So my cat walked around and I imagined it from different perspectives, but I did imagine a "cat for 20 seconds"...
for the life of me i couldn't focus on cat longer than 3 seconds
i thought about his kinda messy food place and his usual walking arrows throughout the house. And the annoyingly small difference between a storming down the stairs for greeting and storming down the stairs for the plz lemme out thing AND the storming down the stairs for just awaiting someone/yearning AND the haha nope curving away and further down into the basement kinda bored thing he does
Dang, in our circles, we don’t start by giving advice. We just let them vent. Then we take turns listening to each other. Hearing sob stories and showing empathy but also expressing logic has helped us. I’ve helped a few friends out of hard situations by giving them ideas and perspectives maybe I’ve seen firsthand. I’ve even solved my own problems by venting and then having the other perspectives given to me. Are we the only ones?
Edit: isn’t seeing a therapist basically venting about things that bother you and finding out why they bother you? Solving problems you don’t even know that you have? Also I DID write this before I watched the whole video 😅
I agree with you
Misery loves company
Some people want help, another want just constantly complain. Big difference.
I also do this within my closest friend group. It has helped many of us tremendously, it even works better than therapy, because sometimes we know our friends better and can signal them and give another perspective on a problem.
It's the social gathering that does you good. If you'd all go and play darts instead you'd get roughly the same results.
And no, seeing a therapist is not about venting at all. It does often start with venting, because mud needs to leave the tube sometimes, but after that it's about identifying the patterns that lead to the need to vent, so to say, in order to prevent it altogether :p
4:35 The very instant I thought of a cat, my cat leaped into my lap. So I failed the exercise but discovered a new super power.
Please use your powers for good! 🥺
I really want a cat! 😻
I often find that a quick vent to someone I trust helps me to finally STOP ruminating over something in my own head..
I vent when something is on my mind ANYWAY and won’t leave so I’m reliving it anyways
Thank you. I now understand how I get it so wrong when my daughter is venting to me. I will be practicing on myself first to learn the technique.If only I had known these techniques earlier in my life!
That's genuinely so sweet that you thought of how you can better communicate with your daughter. It seems like many parents are just dismissive and unwilling to learn. You surely have a lovely soul.
We stan parents (and people in general) who learn 🙌🙌
I needed to talk and vent out my grief, it made me physically ill to hold it in but I didn’t have accepting people to talk to. I got a therapist and went to grief groups and it felt safe to speak it out and actually receive helpful feedback on how to overcome it. Most people give bad advice or don’t respond the way we want them to, it can keep us stuck. I just listen to people now without giving much advice at all because it is a waste of energy. Some people just wanna keep bringing up the past and why life isn’t working out, not have actual solutions. Great video.
I've actually never been there, that I remember of (wanting for the person to stop venting). I like to listen and let the person vent if they feel like expressing that. Certainly has helped me, I'm sure it has helped others as well. Nothing wrong with just showing validation and empathy without actively searching for solution. If it leads to unnecessary rumination of anxiety and pain, then sure there's better ways. But I don't think it's always going to lead to ruminating or negative loop. It's more about experiencing, practicing and expressing emotions, such as anger, in a healthy manner, and the other person being present with you. So I'll respectfully disagree on it always being a bad thing.
If you know how to listen, the other person's venting won't turn into a negative loop. If you are being smart, on the other hand...venting becomes the enemy. I think it is offensive to assume that the other person can't fix their problems and it is us they need for guidance. The whole premise of this video is offensive.
Agree. It's not always a bad thing. The loop can be cut off in the moment, when we gain understanding of what happened and why it happened. Sometimes venting might help with it. I experienced situation that stressed me, I was able to vent to someone who shared empathy and understanding, but also at the same time he/she saw the situation from another perspective and actually showed it to me, so I can really understand what happened and why. That really does calm my emotions and solves my cognitive needs, rather than only burning me again. If I'm venting to someone and I can see he/she does not listen to me, or just shows bland empathy, throwing at me pointless and empty phrases like "oh, I'm so sorry, that must suck", I don't vent anymore, seeing that it has no positive outcome and there's no point of doing it.
If we look at it from the other side, the other person might perceive it as an interesting content. If it's not 15th vent in a matter of a week about the same issue, but a new story that happened, it might be actually interesting, right? I'm telling a story, putting a problem, we go for understanding of what happened and why, looking for a solution and observe it's outcome.
Agree, that sometimes people don't want to leave behind the problem that are venting about, it becomes just venting for venting, which is boring and always wrong. But if the person venting is actually looking for solutions, it might be interesting, constructive and helpful.
LMHC here - I watched this with a little trepidation at first, but the entire video quickly put that trepidation at ease.
A bit of nerdy neuroscience as to why trying to meet their venting with logic (and that includes internal venting to self) is an unproductive idea: those emotions are a subcortical process. The prefrontal cortex’s job is to inhibit those processes. Trying to “logic” the emotions can cause them to shut down before they’ve had a chance to discharge properly (think shutting off the power to a house before you’ve had a chance to properly close out programs on your computer).
The validation and calibrated questions is a great way to help facilitate the discharge process 😊
I feel like I needed this today, as a nice reminder to handle hardships better. Gotta call myself out for this one, sometimes I just have a good vent session, and I understand that there’s a fine line between “hey can we talk I’ve got something on my mind and I need someone else to hear me out” and then there’s [insert three hour rant about personal issues]. I’ve come to think that about 20-40 minutes is the max a vent session should reasonably go on, both for your own and the listener’s benefit. And that’s entirely subjective, that timeframe can be different for everyone
I think unless you’re a professional of some sort (doctor, therapist, financial adviser, lawyer), you should NEVER start with where YOU want to lead them. If they are coming to you in distress, you should find out (or help them find out) what THEY want. If I had a friend or family member, and I’ve had my share, who is leading me towards what they want me to do, it never helps, and has over time led to broken relationships. It’s hubris to think we know better than the other person what they need or want.
Great point. I should’ve added this as a caveat. Thanks for mentioning.
Truth. I've found that when I listen to someone vent long enough, many times they come up with ideas of what they should do on their own. I don't really have to say anything.
100%. Fantastic point. I've been going through a lot lately, and the ones who have helped me are those who helped me figure out what I need, as opposed to others who thought I needed this or that.
Thank you for pointing this out 😊
@@requinremembers Totally agree! You just laid out what I believe is the main benefit of venting. Giving the distressed person an avenue to release the pressure, achieve clarity in the process, and potentially identify themselves what they need to do😊
@@tjjavier Thanks, glad you agree! I do think it requires a certain amount of introspection, etc for a venting person to be able to do that. Some people vent just for attention, or to hear themselves talk..in those cases they probably won't come to the right conclusions. But the 'right' person (maybe that's the person who really does want answers, somehow) can often untangle the knot easier by talking it out. :)
It's amazing how many videos i've seen this new year. Everyone has a strategy to cope with just being a human being. You need to do this and that, and not feel this way or that way. Is this Hell and no-one told us?
There is no hell and no heaven. There is this and this just is. Unfortunately we have the capability of imagining better things and so we always think there is better.
i think saying that venting is always a bad idea is a bit unfair. i get where this is coming from, and i've certainly seen venting go wrong more than once, but i've also seen and experienced it help people a lot. yeah venting on someone out of nowhere is probably not a good idea, me and my friends always just ask first (and we do say "no" sometimes, not everyone is always in the mood for other people's problems and that's fine). this lets the other person prepare for it mentally. sometimes i just wanna talk shit about my work or whatever and hear "yeah man i get you", sometimes i want someone to actually help me with some problem i have. it helps when you have a close and intimate relation with your friends, and you understand each other. venting has certainly helped me more times than it did not, and my friends venting on me is nice too because i can feel good about myself and feel like i'm helping, with very little effort.
Is there a difference between venting and just calmly telling a good friends about some problems you're going through if you're going through tough times? Seems you should be able to share if you've got a lot on your mind (I don't mean ranting for quarter of an hour about a parking ticket..). Are you saying you can only talk about positive/happy or neutral things with them? Is genuine communication not important..? Edit: interesting video, thank you, some good points to consider, have finished watching it now.
I think this is an awesome counter argument. I have some thoughts, but I'm gonna do the typical cop out thing and ask you what you think? Because I'd be interested to see if you already have an idea of an answer.
@@NewelOfKnowledge Thanks :) Well, you kind of answered it at the end, ie.if you insist on doing it, at least do it with the right person! My recent thoughts on it were also choose the right person, and rather than just emotionallly wallowing in your problems, explain what you're going through with a bit of detachment from the situation, accept any empathy going, and listen thankfully to advice (without necessarily accepting it - judge in your own mind if it is useful or not). And don't go on and on about it. But of course those things may be harder at some times than other, eg. if you're right in the middle of a crisis situation. Also remember to be there for the other person too, and to be positive and constructive when you can as well, and avoid having relationships where you only ever talk about your problems.
I’ve seen several videos you’ve produced, very articulate, a laser focus on being reasonable in relationships & non judgmental. Unusual in today’s polarising society.
I’m 59, & people are my drug of choice.
You speak and demonstrate a lot of sense, well done younger man.
I was disagreeing with the beginning of this video, but once you moved onto *how* to vent better and be a better listener to venters, I love how you explained it!!
I have countless stories of me venting to strangers and them giving me insight and advice which helped a lot and made me feel so heard and seen. I also have countless stories of strangers venting to me, and through their venting they either gave me awesome advice as well (sort of cautionary tale type of advice) and I’ve also had people tell me that my advice triggered an epiphany in them. Most of these happened while I was traveling (I lived as a backpacker & nomad for a few years throughout 4 different continents). Yes, I can also look back and think of how embarrassing or annoying I acted towards some of those people (and them towards me), but the benefits outweighed that, most times.
When it comes to the venter, the key is absolutely about *who* to vent to and *when*.. don’t vent at a party or special event, don’t continue venting to someone who’s clearly trying to stonewall/ignore you or looking for an “out” of the conversation, and don’t vent unless you genuinely haven’t vented about that topic before and need insight, and don’t vent about your cautionary tale to someone who doesn’t need that advice.
I also think it’s about *how* you vent. If you’re just saying “this is so horrible” “that girl was so perfect and now she’s gone” etc, that’s very negative and it only really leaves the listener with one option-to empathize and comfort you. Instead, it’s best to vent with introspection and genuine questions towards the problem. “My girl left me and I don’t know why I can’t get over her, it hurt so much and I don’t know why I’m holding on so tight, because the relationship clearly was not healthy” opens up the listener to be able to give much more nuanced advice or support than if you just said “I’m terrible and pathetic and nobody loves me”.
Another banger, this has got to be my new favourite channel
Hello Lewis! I sincerely hope all is well in life.
Even when it is cold! 🥶
I have found myself in this loop so many times
I’m laughing at it, because I never knew what it was and what it meant why I came away from venting feeling worse.
Now I know, and I feel relived I’m not alone in this, as you experienced this to!
I’m glad we can practice this on ourselves especially if we do not have someone who could do it this way for us.
So thank you for adding that!
Keep being awesome! You and your channel make me smile!
Thank you!
❄️🩵🌲
You showed at 6:18 how sharing thoughts and feelings about a traumatic event can lead to this negative circle. But shouldn‘t it help to talk about traumatic events in order to cope with them? Shouldn‘t bad thoughts or traumas have room, so we can process them and get rid of them in the long term? Because stuffing them in your unconsciousness isn’t the solution either. Correct me please if I’m wrong. Would like to hear your take on it. Btw great video as always :)
100% agree. But the key thing is to unpack such traumatic events with a professional who will help you do so in a safe and productive manner, not with people who will rush to give you quick advice (on the internet). Thanks for your support :) and great question.
@@NewelOfKnowledgeI see! Thank you for taking the time to answer. I appreciate it!
@@NewelOfKnowledge I tried doing exactly that (unpacking my negative emotions with a therapist) today. She jumped straight to solutioning and gave advice that could have long term negative consequences (complaining to our school principal and demanding they change something). I told her that I thought it was inappropriate to give that advice and that I was just looking to express my frustration and make space for my negative emotions. She told me it was outrageous that I was trying to run the session and ended the session.
Um, by which I mean, I guess I wish I could send her this video? And unfortunately not all professionals are professional.
@@NimlothEnnue That sounds extremely rude and unprofessional. Of course you're running the session, it's for YOU! Not the therapist!
@@NimlothEnnue sounds like you need a different therapist 😅
This is eye opening. Super helpful. you’re a fantastic teacher and person. Thank you. You rock!!!
Have to disagree with you on this one. Venting is often healthy and a good friend will listen. It does make you feel better. Obviously there are people who take it to the extreme and it can be unhealthy (like anything can be) but sometimes you just need to let it out and have someone hear you. Saying it's ALWAYS a bad idea is bad advice.
Agreed
You have a point, telling others about a problem you've had isn't fundamentally harmful. But I think by venting he meant doing it in an extreme and unhealthy way, which from the definition is harmful. It all boils down to how we define "venting" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@michaklimas6285 my issue is the title saying it is ALWAYS a bad idea, which I disagree with. The title might be designed to generate clicks but when discussing these kinds of issues using absolutes is not helpful or accurate. That said I generally enjoy his content.
@@litemakrto your point though, you shouldn’t ever be taking advice from mere headlines
I didnt see 'always' in the title. He just said it's worse than you think. Worse doesn't mean something is fundamentally bad, but just that it is not as good in comparison to something better
Listening and validating to someone in distress does not equal co-rumination.. and I find it fascinating that you liken “listening and validating” to a hostage situation.
Thanks!
This reminds of a funny video from a few years back, where a man and his female friend/partner are sitting on a couch, and she’s venting to him about this particular problem that’s stressing her out, causing her mental and physical pain, and clouding her thoughts. As it turns out, she has a nail lodged in her forehead. The man attempts to tell her several times that it’s the nail causing all of these problems, and if she just takes the nail out she’ll be fine. However, she constantly interrupts him, refusing to listen to him, and repeats that she feels like she’s not being heard by him.
😂
Welcome to being a therapist
@@jasonjones4036 you shouldn't be a therapist if this is your mindset. It's harmful.
Nothing good has ever come of me telling my feelings to other people. I have learned that my pain is not welcome in others hearts. I don't even try anymore. I actively try to just suppress.
Do the studies even distinguish if the venters were allowed to vent around safe people? It makes a difference if you are met with belittleling and invalidation. Also, isnt therapy mostly venting?
I like this. It’s like you’re taking emotional dumping and turning into focused problem solving. It was a bit hard to understand how to effectively lead the conversation this way, but I’m going to give it a shot the next time I get the chance!
Love this. So relevant for a wide range of situations eg with partners, friends but also political, business or health related consultations too.
I mean if way you overdo it with like "everyone" and "everywhere" and it's just a bad habit... but at times you just need to unload, even if very infrequently. The next step once you're done is take a deep breath and reflect on the reasons you did it and what parts were relevant, and what it actually means.
5:30 in and I’m in absolute stitches 😂. I love laughing at myself, laughing at humanity and our struggles which is precisely why I’m subscribed. Newel of Knowledge nails our nincompoopery.
This video isn't about venting. It's about problem solving. We all vent but we rarely listen to the solutions we vent about. I've lost friends because they vent to me, I give them perfectly sound advice and they go out of their way to do the exact opposite. Maybe if I knew some of the things in this video I could have actually helped them.
I'm convinced at this point that healthy relationships are only possible with people who try to better themselves. I'm usually swept away by other people's bad mental states and it can seriously decrease my quality of life if someone keeps on rambling and complaining all the time. If it's someone close to me, I usually try to sort things out with them and look for practical solutions (logical ones never work). But it's mostly the people who keep on venting about the same problems who are least interested in changing anything about their situation and just WANT to complain. This is very frustrating, as my reflex is to spend a lot of time to think about THEIR problems; this is something no one but a psychologist should do (because they are at least getting payed for it).
At some point I decided to simply not give a shit about their venting anymore (in the sense of not reacting to it or thinking too much about it at all). This feels uncomfortable, yet seemed to be more effective than to show actual "empathy" which just seemed to reinforce the venting. It makes people reflect more on what they are saying instead of feeding the fire.
Paid. Payed is synonymous with tarred.
@@seriouscat2231 lol thx
When you vent, other parts of your brain process the information and help you find new solutions to the problem. So does the advice of a willing ear. Even if their advice isn't right, a brainstorming session can ensue, and solutions abound.
I truly enjoy most of your videos and find them helpful, but this hasn't been true for me at all and following similar advice has been harmful to me and my relationships.
I've tried not venting before, worrying the same thing as you present, that 1. I'm making things worse for myself, and 2. I'm being a burden on others (primarily my partner), and not doing so lead to negative outcomes.
It's not true for me at all that venting makes me relive the experience, the opposite. By not venting at all, or even trying to just journal it out, it keeps the feelings inside and they begin to rot and fester, increasing feelings of depression and anxiety. Letting it out, venting about it, releases it all and I feel much better, I do not relate to feeling like I'm reliving it or making it worse.
It also lead to feelings of guilt around my partner, I wanted to vent but I felt like I was being a bad partner in doing so, which lead to me feeling more emotionally closed off from my partner with higher feelings of depression.
My partner noticed this and I explained it to them. My partner replied they didn't mind my venting at all, but that they do appreciate a "heads up, I'd like to vent, are you emotionally available for that?"
Since then it's been a lot better, I feel that I can rely on my partner for some emotional support while not being a burden to them, I can get out my feelings to another human being without letting them eat away at me from the inside.
Lastly, I very rarely mind listening to somebody else venting myself. It doesn't bore me or frustrate me, (Okay, maybe if they're venting for the millionth time about an issue that is in their control to change.) I enjoy being a space for someone to emotional balance themselves, I don't mind it at all, it's all part of the package for me.
This said, I do agree there are better and worse ways both to vent and how to listen to venting, so I appreciate that.
I love you and your channel ❤
I'm not British, but I have a British friend who practices reflective listening with me. Honestly, I find it really frustrating, and I can't seem to get him to stop.
I’d rather people just listen without repeating everything I say like a parrot-it’s incredibly annoying.
I guess it's a cultural difference, but I still love him 😊.
Edit: Oh, I see the problem now! He should reflect back to me in his own words instead of just repeating what I say. Got it!
Thank you again for such valuable life lessons 👍👍👍
Very interesting… I’ve heard that the British stiff upper lip was what helped the population cope better during the Second World War. The fact that people didn’t talk about things they were going through but just carried on, helped. It’s so counter to what we’re told to do today.
You may not be aware of the 'Keep calm and carry on' poster, which has spawned all sorts of variations.
It was designed in the eventuality of a successful German invasion.
I'm always looking for advice if I'm venting - moaning without action is a waste of energy.
But the thing is. When people try to give me advise I've already thought of all the solutions that they could possibly think of.
Then you’re most likely going to people seeking the validation and empathy. Like he said, that’s part of why we vent to others, I can tell when I often just want someone to hear me and say “that must be hard” which is totally ok to want!
From the other side - My friend came up with this idea: Potato Helping. If someone is trying to give you good advice, and you can see how much they care and how much energy they're expending trying to help, stop them and say "Thank you for trying to help, I appreciate how much you're doing to help. But I need you to stop, because you're potato helping. What I really need right now is (support, hugs, a shoulder to cry on, etc.)"
It acknowledges that they are trying to be helpful, letting them know that they're not achieving the outcome of helping you, and giving them clear and direct advice as to what you actually need.
If your venting to someone who thinks like this dude does for the first minute then yeah venting won’t help cos that person is horrible. In a healthy vent you listen and allow space, you don’t just give shitty advice to get the venter to shut up, that’s an awful friend.
Some people don't want unsolicited advice? I'm trying to stop doing it.
Such people are secretly very arrogant.
Venting and complaining are compulsions! It’s simply assurance-seeking.
Everything comes down into reassurance and validation
You just describe me. This is how my life is everyday. Stressed. Miserable. Annoyed. Not depressed just unhappy. When i vent i feel better. But i never thought how the other person views me when i vent to them.
You feel with them, lean into the emotion, make them feel heard and validated. You use empathy, then you start detaching emotionally a little bit and look at things from bigger and multiple perspectives. Giving you more clarity. Me and my lil sis have perfected this. I‘m a gemini who loves to understand all perspectives, but my aries moon is hella impulsive. Here is where my sister complements me; my sister has an aquarius stellium, she is much better at detaching from emotions and seeing the big picture; while staying her empowered empathic self. I always feel good sharing with her and usually feel empowered and even more compassionate after talking with her.
I used to not mind people venting to me. But now I notice it drains my energy. Especially when you guide them to your advice and they never take it. And then next time they're venting about the same thing again. 😮💨😮💨
Id love to see a video about how to be able to focus and study , why is it so hard to even start to study especially when you grow up as a gifted kid that have never had the necessity to do so
i'll be honest.
cautionary tale time:
about a decade ago i had my most stellar hour when it comes to really, no REALLY!!! making a clown out of myself. wont go into the full story, but it started with being in a completely new social environment and bringing my personal disdain and hatred for a neighbor lady (that simply wasnt fainting over the thought of going to bed with me) to those new people, at that point still strangers. followed by a much bigger meltdown over a heartbreak thing and that i took even more out into the public. i didnt air my dirty laundry, no, it was diarrhea soaked laundry i showed to everyone. figuratively.
you do this only once. at SOME point either people stop talking to you OR you will bit by bit realize on your own that this understanding smile and patient listening is just self-control to not outright vomit into your face. because thats what youre doing. you vomit emotionally onto people without a warning.
lesson learned. i hope.
maybe.
Helping someone work toward a solution is wonderful, my advice is that you ask them if they need or want your advice. They may already have a solution formulated. The need to listen and be heard (when appropriate )is human and necessary. Suppressing painful emotions causes a variety of mental and physical issues. Narcissists tend to be uncurious and generally bored when listening, to gain control back, they typically offer unsolicited advice. …and Co ruminating is a different animal. This video lacks the context and specifics, venting can mean many things
I dont thing venting is _always_ counterproductive. It depends on who you vent to, how the other person handles the vent, and how you handle their reaction. Its kinda like a skill i guess xD
Thank you, really helpful advice. I've been stuck in the co rumination cycle and now i finally have a way to bring balance back to my really valuable friendships ❤
Feels like how a manipulative person thinks lol
venting (speaking about problems that bother us) is actually a very useful psychological technique for processing and healing trauma and for abuse victims and for people going through tough times.. it can be a very healing thing to do, especially if the person listening to the person talking is supportive and compassionate and validates the person who is talking about their problems, and even more helpful if potential solutions, or wisdom, is shared by listeners
there are many academic studies that show this
this guy in the video does not seem to be aware of this at all
I just stumbled upon this and coincidentally, I've had two people venting to me today about different things and I used different techniques in each situation. In the first, my sister had a fight with my mum and was venting about it. I was very empathetic but I didn't offer any advice. The second, my ex was venting about his parents meddling in his relationship with his girlfrend. I was the opposite. I had to tell him to stand up for himself and not be a coward. I think I was too harsh because I could relate to his girlfriend. After watching this, I feel like I did bad in both situatioins. (Sorry for my bad English. It's not my mother tongue.) Thanks for the video! I will try to do better in the future.
What if I want to attract the people who don’t mind venting to people. They seem like kinder people.
Its hard to find such people nowadays, kindness is rare
Forcing unsolicited advice on someone with the human need to be heard and validated is rarely helpful, and can often be damaging. If you care about the person, listen to them. It’s not hard.
just to add...
a lot of people only want to vent - they are not analyzing to root out the source of problems (dont conflate complaint with problem solving - it's often not)
a lot of people get an emotional/social high from rightesouly venting (ie being right by proxy - ie paint the offender in a negative light)
a lot of people will talk regardless who is there - so, in a way, it's not really social - which means why are you there
a lot of people have been and will continue to complain about the same types of things or even the same people and problems for years
Firslly I think your videos are really awesome.
Secondly people who vent have an emotional need to process whatever they are going through, and if you choose not to talk about whatever problems you have you will find it much harder to process them. You are rigjt about needing the correct foil, and I'm wondering if it's possible to help oneself when venting by telling your foil what you want from them.
Thirdly, when you're asking the ventor some questions, I've played with the idea of asking targeted hypothetical questions such as "what would happen you feel if you were to do xyz?" I've found hypotheticals a very effective negotiating strategy in business matters in some circumstances and I'm sure the same could be said for personal matters with a bit of thought and delicacy.
Theres an optional way to negotiate in business where you use "force and pressure", also these negotations can be slightly psychologically violent. I see that in a lot of leaders and negotatiors in the corporate world. Personally I have fought back by "putting people in order". I like these soft skill videos, as they are a more human way to negotiate, and defuse conflict.
For me, venting has been an emotional reaction.
This is why i have been learning about Stoicism.
Makes me realize that I can’t confide on anyone even in my family because my voice naturally rises when I’m venting. Having a high pitch automatically lowers their opinion of you 😭
I think when youre venting at someone who you think would have lower opinion of you for it, your expecting a fight, and your body naturally goes in heightened response, that includes becoming higher pitch. You can’t really control that part. What you can control is who you think it’d be safer to vent to regarding context you’re in. Sometimes, like with not so receiving family, it can be hard to find that safety. But you’ll find it, as long as you’re continuing your own quest.
Wait till you hit your 40s or 50s if you're a woman. Your angry or annoyed or stressed voice will go lower.
As an HSPP, I’d like to offer a different perspective. You mentioned that venting is problematic because people prioritize emotional needs over cognitive ones. However, it’s natural for people to seek understanding before they’re ready to consider solutions. Feeling understood often empowers individuals to discover their own answers. Active listening supports this process and doesn’t require complex strategies.
Citing research on discussing extreme trauma immediately after it occurs doesn’t directly apply to everyday situations. I’ve genuinely appreciated your earlier content, but you’re approaching a sensitive topic with more confidence than care.
This is pretty toxic. It is manipulation and pretending an inability to empathize is actually care. I get that some people get stuck in the comfortableness of being gloomy and stuck (excusing them not taking action), but they are then exhibiting signs of a greater problem - pure lack of confidence that may be rooted in trauma.
In the wrong hands definitely can be used for manipulation.
However I would argue if ones intention is to just help without any gains, this is a skill and flow helps in removing misunderstandings, even help to be more empathetic to the person venting, and give a solution that have both listener and venter to find something that suits and help the venter, and not something that the listener gains from
I say this being someone that used to and always keep making misunderstandings despite wanting to help and hurt the person further. What NewelofKnowledge says of using "Why" questions does give misunderstandings of being intrusive is really true.
As for empathy there is a lot of different types of it and also highly based on one's own experience. I can sympathize someone that went to war, but as someone that have never experienced it, I won't be able to fully and deeply feel. I can try to simulate their events and imagine it, but its a fine line of actually empathizing and projection, giving needless harm inflicted on one self as it takes you away from listening to the venter. Having these curated questions help to really listen tot the venter and what they are saying, clarifying their stance and be there for them.
And if the listener realizes from the queries that they are not fit to help , be it just not having the experience or understanding of the situation, they would know not to give a solution to the issue, can still give other forms of support like a space for them if things hit the fan.
Not everyone is good at being empathetic, it’s not always intentional. It could be their nature or from their experiences. The fact the person is “pretending” to be empathetic may show that they actually do care, instead of just brushing the other person off, at least they are trying to appear empathetic. And sometimes, for those that lack empathy, it’s a learning process, this could potentially teach someone *how* to be empathetic.
The toxicity really depends on the person, maybe the person wants to be helpful for their friend or maybe they just want their friend to shut up.
And please understand that just because a person lacks empathy does not mean that they aren’t sympathetic and understanding. So it doesn’t automatically make them a villain either.
@ the whole point of this exercise as it is being laid out is to make the friend stop complaining and take (the) action that the person this is aimed at deems the x right one - which inherently becomes an issue if that person themselves are unable to empathise, and thus give proper advice. To feign empathy in this manner does more harm than good. You can absolutely be curious and inquisitive regarding the friends struggles (and that could help develop empathy I guess), so why not just do that. Oftentimes the friend needs to work things out together with someone and the answers will come to them from that process. Not feeling alone is the main goal.
They can't be "understanding" if they lack empathy, even if they are sympathetic in nature. But sympathy is rather cheap when it comes to advice.
@4:50 I saw an orange tabby sitting on a mahogany floor in dim lighting, relaxing. It reminded me of a house I lived in during college.
I really appreciate your proposal of how to be a good listener. But there is one important detail to keep in mind: The method was developed by the police to deal with problematic individuals, and as such in its nature is interested in establishing the own goals through psychological means. In real life, you mostly seek to maintain a healthy equal-level relationship. This relationship is bidirectional and you do not want to force your thoughts onto others through psychological tricks. I think the method is still good for this, but the big change i propose is not to have a clear goal in mind, but rather use the questions to better explore their situation, which may in turn also change your advice/goal at the end. A constructed example: They never told you they got hit by their partner, so at the start you think the complaining is hypocrisy and your goal is to keep them together. But after the talk you may need to reaccess you own standpoint.
your content is amazing, and the comic touches here and there are a big cherry on top!
I gave that person my honest truest advice because I’ve been there, but they just don’t want to take in the effort and just continue venting and ranting, if you don’t take in the effort to live, then die?
This video has been a great refresher for me on how to listen and empathize more productively... or advise more empathetically, lol.
I would like to say, however, that I disagree with the very last tip, to ask advice in front of the person you're trying to help, because it is kind of passive aggressive, in my opinion.
I also appreciate how you shared with us how to receive someone who is venting, but you did not clearly establish the first point as being “venting is bad if you do it wrong” through your wording. It came across to me as “sharing your feelings always makes things worse” which is both untrue and would invalidate the rest of your video. Ahem, what I mean is, what were you hoping to convey about venting in the first part of the video?
From my perspective, the sharing of emotions and recieving validation from others isn't bad, but it becomes annoying when done excessively without an intent to improve (leaves the listener helpless and the venter continuously frustrated as mentioned). Regardless of whether you share or not, if you're not ready to take strides to change your situation, you will feel worse regardless! I wish that this was stated more clearly instead of focusing on the sharing itself being the issue. The studies may be showing a correlation between people who vent a lot and people who don't know how to validate their own feelings and aren't ready to take action.
Thanks for reading my two cents!Stay playful and dangerous 🫡
This is really helpful!
Hopefully will try it out on one of my co-workers who's venting to me everyday and keeps ruining the mood.
Unfortunately I just couldn't put any valuable answers because he didn't even let me to speak.
Plenty of conclusions were jumped by this gentleman I see. One is the necessary linearity of thought, the other disbelief of the other when they say they understand. By jove, even if one cannot completely understand another, saying it helps, believe or not.
Even the Bible states that the "fool vents all his wrath."
Looking good, Newel.
This is based on the video's title mostly.
I saw a short on this from Healthy Gamer GG (have yet to fully watch THIS video) but in his short video, he basically said that when you vent, you make it to be "done with" in your brain, so you won't put effort into changing things, because in your brain "it's already sort of resolved". It was a big moment for me, because it unlocked this part of me that could, in weird terms, make "shame" useful for me as a tool to get out of my bed instead of just trying to "digest" the shame. In other words, when I felt ashamed, instead of trying to just get it off my chest, I could actually just do something, motivated by the shame.
Can you please tell me the name of the video which contains the part of the short?
@@bingobongo4561 ok, i think my comment didn't go through " The Neuroscience of Venting @TheDiaryOfACEO" by HealthyGamerGG
there's obviously more to it than just "DON'T VENT!" (it's a short after all), but essentially, if you recognize you are in a cycle of venting, that's the point you should begin to potentially use your negative emotions for action.
It depends on the relationship you have. If people know that they can tell you to give it a rest, then it can be fine. Part of caring about someone is caring about the problems that they're having
This seems very much like the Socratic method. There are two facets to that method from the famous philosopher:
1. The first is that during (or perhaps before) a debate, Person A should be able to explain Person B's perspective, to Person B's satisfaction (and vice-versa).
2. The second is the notion of asking questions which push the other person into framing their own beliefs in words - so as to illustrate the consequences of these beliefs.
Never ask why he says, asks why in the title. Top level thinking there!
hahaha great spot
As a person with ADHD I can tell you that venting is not a downhill spiral or domino like. It's more like making a step into the bottomless pit
I’m confused by this video. So is venting always a bad idea or not? It seems like corumination is a bad idea based on your claims but not venting
Great point. I'd say there's a caveat; venting is always going to be a bad idea if the person you're venting to is either just being empathic or just being practical. Venting will be useful if you vent to someone who first shows you empathy and then helps you alter your perspective. Thanks for pointing this out.
@@NewelOfKnowledge Venting is a waste of energy in most cases, in my experience, because it doesn't change anything, and anyone who could help won't and anyone who wants to help can't.
I try to save my venting for youtube. Lol. On my other channel... created in large part to let me be _me_ , as opposed to videos of clouds, birds, bunnies, trains, sunrises, etc on this channel.
That said, sometimes hearing your conundrum or gripe aloud can help you realize you do, actually, have a good reason to vent (or perhaps don't have a good reason to vent).
I'm 55, and tend to now give off the "angry mom" or "angry grandma" vibe when I vent in person, which I find... mildly amusing... when I (rarely) tear a strip off someone face to face. Aka "vent". 😂 (Giving someone a well earned hard smack on the back of the head is considered "assault").
I think venting depends very much on the person, their "audience", the ages and stages of both, their relationship, energy levels, expectations, etc.
As a young person, I was very much a, "Aw, f- it" type who just moved on instantly / walked away / got on with life.
But now that I'm old and have put up with waaaay too much carp (and repeat situations and "types" of people), I now tend to re-evaluate throughout my days if venting is worth the energy. Yay or nay. 🤔
Sometimes, even if I can't spare the energy, I vent anyway. Some things are worth it.
But then there's venting and there's VENTING.
And I've also been toying with sarcasm, though I'm not very good at it so far.
Dark "humour" is also something I'm looking into.
5:46 Dear NewelOfKnowledge, I see coming up with a random example must‘ve felt vulnerable. …
How do you think this example might‘ve helped you in the moment and how do you think you could possibly repeat it on your own? …
My therapist told me that writing or journalling about random examples can help eleviate the stress asociated with them possibly ending up in videos :)
This seems like what I do normally. I guess that's why people always vent to me.
oh wow that sucks, when you vent to someone for practical advice and all they say is "oh that must be bad for you"
To 'vent' means to allow gases, liquids to pass through a confined space. It is usually associated with the release of overheated, unpleasant, harmful, and poisonous air.
Your hair looks good when it's longer like this.
Yes!!!
I relived the gif of what’s goin on cat for 20 secs
Lewis, while the cat 🐱was napping, Voss and Kross made you the Boss ! 😎
Very interesting video. Seem to have caused a lot of emotional reaction in people. Including me. Impressive to do that without having to do clickbait 😉😂 I loved the point about co-rumination, and how being logical immediately, makes other people feel dismissed. Supporting eachother in helpful ways is something that most people seem to not know how to do. Someone already pointed out the calibrated questions being more in the intention of finding what is most helpful for the person. And I know even psychologist can start the cal. q's and have to change path as they find new information that means another direction would be better. From a perspective of emotional focused psychology. To validate and reflect someones emotions may actually mean that they come in more contact with it, it grows, is released and then calms. After that happens, new perspectives or advice often comes to people automatically. This is how it mostly works for me. However, i think co-rumination happens mainly with secondary emotions. Cause releasing those without getting to the primary emotion = feeling worse or no relief and often ruminating. I just want to speak up for how sometimes validating and reflecting is actually enough and means the person themselves start asking calibrated questions. However, i think its helpful to know that emotions speak of needs. Without that, very likely to not work. I understand why most your videos are an hour long because in order to fit this in 20 min. You have to focus on one path and summary. While I'm sure you could have spoken about the different aspects and exceptions for way longer. Thank you for awakinging thoughts and for the loud laughs!
wrong...venting is often a really great idea.. especially when someone is being abusive to us or we are trying to recover from trauma.. it can help us IN A MAJOR WAY to process trauma, especially if the listener is empathic and supportive
you REALLY should study some ACTUAL psychological kiterature on this with peer reviewed studies
This is why venting to AI will take over in the future. Especially for men. I use ChatGPT advanced voice mode to vent. Works great.
Ideał timing. I just came back really pissed because my weekend plans crumbled. I still do feel like screaming, but imagining a cat helps a bit 😅
i somehow started thinking about the mountains and motorcycles, instead of a cat
I strongly disagree. We as humans are, and always will be, overall emotional beeings. Venting is totally normal. It's not alway about finding a rational solution. Meeting your emotional needs is a solution in itself. And if you got yourself only friends, that can't just listen for once, and instead have to solve every problem and otherwise can't handle your venting, they are bad friends. Because sometimes only listening without finding a solution is a solution in itself. (Which of course excludes problems, that frequently come back. That is when you really need a rational solution.)
7:05 I agree we are emotional beings
Damn, I’m going to struggle even more when choosing the people I vent to. 😂But it’s for the best. Amazing video, thanks!🙏🏼 btw the cat meditation took me to Syria lol
You got the looks and you got the brains 🤭🥰🙌🏼🙌🏼
Venting is necessary for windows at least 😂😮
❤
In other words a problem shared is a problem halved
i like ur mind
@NewelOfKnowledge be kind to your mind brother From another mother ✌️
Disagree. Yes, many people react to venting like you described, annoyed. But that is because people are stupid. If you can read between the lines, you can learn much about world and the person talking. That can be useful.
This fit looks good on you 🔥🤞🏽
This timing of this video is pricless. Love u all 💗
Although I was turned off by the title of this one, the points were fairly solid. Thank you for doing what you do!
Also- if you haven't found her through the algorithm yet, I'd recommend Heidi Priebe to you- I feel like y'all's YTs complement each other well.