Reading comments on other videos looks like jeweled lotus is the one most people are upset about. Including me who just bought one 2 days ago and never got to play it.
Reprint and add text to Jeweled Lotus and fix it retroactively (Cast only if total commander cost is 6 or more) This still allows high cost commanders to utilize it and commander tax to be softened once)
Why reprint the card with new text that is already banned. They should just make new cards (which they already do) that aren't freaking broken on day 1. They could make a new card called Jeweled Lotus Petal 🪷 or something that does what you were talking about.
Lol. Why not go and find a creative, unique way to play your high-cost commander and actually enjoy the casual-ness of the commander format? Seems like a good time for people to give up net-decking and learning how to search on scryfall.
Jeweled lotus is the worst one, literally a useless card everywhere else on purpose Mana crypt hurts the most, was the ultimate booster chase for years
Ehh its a card game, not a investment. Most people got years of play out of it. Decks will adapt, new cards and combo lines will emergency. But this does help the casual format at LGS, where people play fast mana and it can feel really unfair, and can be a form of price gateing
@@vakuzar Missed the point so badly that it had to be intentional. explain it to me then how buying multiple booster boxes is a better use of money than just buying the $200 card besides the dopamine hit when you "win" by pulling it or any of the other higher value cards from the set.
Really should split them. Different committee, different banlist. They’ll still be 99% the same in terms of available cards, but the mindset/playstyle of the two formats are totally different.
Yeah, but any time this conversation is brought up, cEDH players get extremely whiny about it. Even though it needs to happen, they don't want separate lists for what ever reason.
Need to get rid of the whiny casual players first 😂 The only reason these bans exist is because there's a bunch of casual players who enjoy stomping on low-power decks, causing other casuals to whine about them.
LOL I been saying this for the last few years. The Rules Committee is not keeping up on the current trends of EDH. There really needs to be Casual EDH RC and CEDH RC ban list :P
"THEY" want it to be slower but pods/people and metas play how they play. their vision isn't what others are. they don't play cedh a lot so why step on other people's foots?
The most important thing about these bans isn't the specific cards... it is the message it sends to WotC. That said, I certainly empathize with anyone who spent a ton of money on these cards.
This makes me worried slightly for the future philosophy. I worry that the most powerful cedh cards dont see enough casual play for the RC to care, but the more balanced cedh cards DO see enough casual play to raise eyebrows, leading to bans that cut off the bottom of the cedh meta, leaving the top untouched, leading to more homogeny instead of less. If this ban was the same except dockside, I think people would be fine with it. Unfortunately dockside is, like you said, a good card holding together a lot more off meta decks. I think the banning of these cards shows a significant trend of the whole format moving more and more competitively. As more people begin to play commander and it becomes the flagship format, youll have more and more people who want to play to win, and build their decks the best they can be. EDH has such a large card pool you dont have to try very hard to do something broken. As more and more people discover more of those broken things and as wizards keeps printing powerful cards, the format will continue to speed up and power up.
RC Members' LGS yesterday. "I wonder why this person just unloaded all of their Mana Crypts along with their Docksides. That's odd. Oh well, let's list them." LOL
Can you throw Smothering Tithe, Fierce Guardianship, Deflecting Swat, Cyclonic Rift, and tutors on the ban list next? Jokes aside, I run all of them spread across 10 decks, some have them, some don't. It is what it is and I'm probably ignoring the bans depending on playgroup.
@@davidchan3781 i feel like smothering is a necessary evil. It, in my mind, pushes demand for enchantment removal in all colors, (red, black and blue can’t do it very well) and although it’s broken with wheels, it de-incentivizes wizards from making a wheeling commander in white +grixis. The rest can stay. Removal is removal and doesn’t necessarily advance the board, your position or win the game on their own.
@Gashnaw You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Vintage doesn’t use it because the commander text, it uses it because it’s a zero cost artifact.
I feel like the fast mana thing really is something for a rule 0 conversation. I'm sorry, but there are so many things people dislike that it just feels abritrary and mean to punish those who play with fast mana. You know what I don't finde enjoyable? Coutnerspells. Should we ban all the counterspells now because they impede me on playing my stuff? No. I need to be a big boy and suck it up and play around them. My Greven, Predator Captain for example was only playable because I had Jeweled, Mana Crypt and Dockside in there. I need to be fast to have a chance at winning against 3 opponents. I can basically dissolve it now.
So now you still have rule 0 conversation as you said. I got banned mox opal and I dealt with it. I got pissed and stop playing modern all together. But when I look back in time, It was a right choice for format. (But banning card made for commander like lotus was without warning stupid).
Rule zero conversations are all that is needed outside of tournament play. No RC required if players can communicate the power level of the game you want. Example: “do you run fast mana like Mana Crypt?” “Yes I am playing a more competitive cedh deck.” “Cool, but I’m really looking for a slower game.” “No worries, man.” The end.
Oracle needs some set up, you argue that it is easy to set up. But it doesnt just auto win by itself. Meanwhile a turn 1 crypt and lotus costs nothing and catapults you several turns ahead from the beginning of the game. If its a game where not everyone has those cards then the people without them are massively behind with next to no way to catch up.
@@D0012D13 those cards are free and you should look up what the word logic means because you sorely misunderstood it. You can atleast counter oracle or consultation. you cant counter a turn one 0 cost.
@@BloodSplatterArtist Lol. How do you get to poor from net-decking? Most poor people net-deck because they want the most synergistic deck with the least number of cards bought as possible.
I advocate for ignoring the RC. CEDH needs it's own banlist and regular EDH is a casual format and some random dude's cant' dictate what to play. Having a banlist is a stupid idea in EDH to begin with. That's what a rule zero conversation is for. As if I'll get beaten up next time i'll play at my LGS with Grim Monolith, LED, Mox Diamond and Timetwister stuff just because they are not banned. So the only place where a banlist takes place is in cEDH and there you will neither decrease its speed because so many fast mana options are still available nor improve deck diversity since those cards helped boost fringe Commanders.
Accessibility is the most important factor of the longevity and healthiness of a game. Having $100+ cards that warp games to the extent these ones do is just flat out detrimental. I’m glad this step was taken, and think the rules committee need to go much further, taking Gaea’s Cradle, Mishra’s Workshop, original duals and a few more out of the format. I do think having a separate cedh ban list is a good idea to maintain the explosive gameplay some players want.
“I don’t see how it benefits the meta” it shifts the meta. Now the only unfortunate part is that we don’t have a committee for cedh so we can’t adjust the meta further
i feel like the table is adjusting its powerlevel by itself by pregame discussion about it. the bans (especially rendering JL completely worthless??) was just random. if you wanna play slower games just have that talk before starting a game and when somebody still plays lots of fast mana thats the person's fault and not the cards?
I do kind of see why they wanted to ban these things, just wanting to slow things down and so on. But I do think it’s dumb that we just had 1 set with Jeweled lotus being a big chase card and another with mana crypt as a chase card, people have spent tons trying to pull them then in the same year they banned those cards after those people have spent all that money, I buy singles so that issue isn’t as bad for me but I feel bad for all the people who have spent all that money and been really happy they pulled the card . If cedh decided to make its own rules I’d probably be able to accept this ban because my cards will still be usable in that format, but with them currently being unusable alltogether it’s a bit grim, if they were cheap easy to get cards non of us would really care, but anyone who’s gone ahead and bought the cards for them to just become 2p chaff it’s pretty grim, I only just got back into magic this past year so iv only just found and bought these cards so for them to vanish practically right after I got them is preeeetty frustrating, I’m finally understanding the proxy debate and thinking I may have to join the proxy friendly group moving forward lol.
Those people are stupid gamblers for chasing. They could have just bought the card outright if they really wanted it. Those people WANTED to spend money to chase. Dont try to act like suddenly this makes that money wasted.
@@GorrnLord well yeah I mentioned buying singles aswell because that’s how I got mine. But I know people who also pulled them packs recently, and it would be as simple as we’re at fnm and they grab a couple packs to try their luck, they finally got good luck yay, then got slapped with the ban straight after lol, whether that’s the way to go about getting one or not that’s still gonna feel shit, doesn’t matter if you bought it out right or got lucky with a pack that’s still a hype pull that you’d be happy to play then you then find out you can’t . I’m not saying anyone’s experience is worse than anyone else’s, I saw a pic of a guy that spent £7000 buying multiples of the singles , like it was shit for everyone lol. The only people it wasn’t shit for is proxy players and people that don’t play high power cards, and ya know lucky them and all that, doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t still a bit of sting from our most expensive cards we like playing being made useless , it’s all just opinions at the end of the day bud.
I give a shit about this Bans. Just bought this old cards this year. Stupid decision. Ordered my 4th mana crypt today for half the price than last month's.
This may be an unpopular take: but banning dockside is dumb af. Nobody could make a case for banning a card thats dependent on how well your opponents are doing. Not that I would, but I'd sooner argue that smothering tithe should go before dockside.
I mean if it was just a single target players A/E but everyone having 1-2 A/E isn't exactly them "doing well" Seen way to many games get closed out of nowhere by a single dockside.
The other main issue here is a member of the rules committee admitting communicating their plan with Wizards for this a YEAR ago. Do you know what that lines up with? Yeah, Commander Masters… So they knew that Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt were going to get thrown in the dumpster but because it was going to cost Wizards too much to fix and redesign two sets they went with releasing them anyway. That’s super bad in my opinion. CMM and LCI were two sets that people opened a LOT of going for the chase cards that are now banned. It’s just a really bad look on Wizards and the Rules Committee. The member of the Rules Committee really shouldn’t have even said anything but I’m glad he did. It just sets an incredibly ominous precedent. ANY powerful card that is only played in commander is now potentially on the chopping block to get financially ruined. It’s bad. It causes even more of a lack in faith in Wizards to somewhat respect the value of our collections. And it gives the rules committee incredible power. This sounds crazy but I’m really close to just selling my entire collection or at least the expensive staples. I have a lot of money in Magic. For example these bans didn’t just loose me 100s of dollars. I have at least 5copies of each of those three big staples. It lost me 1000s. When it impacts people financially is when I start to question the decision. Just think, many cards “accelerate” the game in much of the same way. Rhystic Study, Conc Sphinx, ANY TUTOR, Grim Monolith, Dark Rit, ect. You get my point. What the Rules Committee just did here puts ALL of these cards into question based on their philosophy of banning Mana Crypt, J-low, and Dockside. It’s not a good look guys.
Thing is, who are they to tell us how to build/play our decks. The whole "we think..." doesnt make sense. One group doesnt think for everyone. I did see Dockside ban coming from miles away, tho.
Simple then, disband the RC. Wizards owns the game and can do that any time they want, like when the worst banning in the history of the game leads to the most loss of value ever seen in mtg card market. Just for example.
I'm exclusively an EDH player, I've feared running into anyone who starts with these fast mana pieces, especially if they can bounce dockside. and I'm honestly fine with them banning them. I'd never pay to play them anyway.
Its a good thing. They can now release weakened and tweaked versions of these cards, but these cards were too powerful and too expensive. Not healthy for the game.
@@tidal_overdrive536boohoo. Folks shouldn’t be spending that much money on one card. They were busted and forced every other deck to speed up and play all the same expensive interaction just to keep up. And even then often times the dockside player still wins
@@joshhill8894actually sounds like your whining because you took a knife to a gunfight. Have a pregame talk like a man and play a balanced game. Easy as pie.
I'm for all four banned. Jeweled Lotus is broken as Black Lotus was. Nadu was banned as a commander in duel commander already. Dockside Extortinist was banned already in many formats. Mana Crypt had a bad history in MTG.
Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play???
@henrytorr5810 you can't just make a statement and say "that's what most players think" when you don't really know that. Even if you did, those people could choose not to use it, that's what I did. Besides, fun is subjective, and the RC tends to make terrible decisions.
@@joshhill8894sounds like you either don’t know how to communicate for a balanced game or give in to easily. I’ve never had an issue with asking my opponent how fast or powerful their deck is and either politely saying I need a slower game or pulling out a more competitive deck to match. It’s so so so simple.
Cedh wants to be fast though. No one in cEDH is complaining about these cards... why would you want to slow down games when they want to win by Turn 4? Hmmmm... That jeweled Lotus though.... Hundred-dollar card reduced to zero😢
It does feel like the cdh community at my lgs is just "find a dockside" -> "game over" in almost every deck. Not really any worse than all the "find a thoracle" but it does get kind of obnoxious so i am looking forward to a shake up. It's actually kind of funny how we have a guy that is just addicted to the most egregious card and he's still whining about paradox engine and doxkside ban started him on like a 6 hour long rant. I mostly play normal commander and really like these bans. We have a guy who just copies decks that beat him and sticks mana crypt and jeweled lotus in the to make them "better" so assuming that's a normal thing... Ridding the world of those guys is a blessing
I really don't like this change, since (I feel like and think) these bannings only really benefit casual pods, where these cards don't really come up anyways. I feel like this just kills a lot of cEDH and also mainly high power decks. I feel like these cards plus free interaction and combos were the main line between casual and high power. With those out of the picture I think there will be many more high power decks in casual since they can't be differenciated that easily anymore.
Rule 0 sucks. It works well at the kitchen table, not with random people. "Hey bro, would you mind putting 500 bucks worth of cards out of your deck? Thank you!" Rule 0 comes down to "Would you mind me playing proxies?" Or "Can i play this planeswalker as a commander?"
In any discord I have been playing, there are different tables for different power scalings. nything with fast mana like mana crypt and lotus was no being played under 8 and there was almost never any problem. Super easy to understand and ppl have generally more than 1 deck to play. Proxies are always allowed and no one cares if your deck is 100 bucks or 3k if it’s according to the pl we’re playing.
I’m not sad for cEDH because it is such a meta specific competitive format. banning the best three cards in a competitive format rarely hurts the format. There’s always going to be a best-card-in-the-format and shaking up the format breathes new life into the format. Plus cEDH is so proxy friendly I’m hoping most people didn’t loose a ton of money on these bans. I owned one copy of each of these cards and I’m totally fine with the value of my single copies tanking for the overall health of the format. If you did invest your life savings in jeweled lotuses, sorry I guess…
I'm all for these bans. I came to play for the long term. It's not fun to win the game in 2-3 turns. This isn't Yu-Gi-Oh. If you want the game to end fast go play Yu-Gi-Oh. When I play and my opponent forfeits I don't enjoy it and sometimes I literally won't attack for multiple turns to see how it plays out whether I win or lose I just want to have fun.
Pregame discussion fixes and balances everything. If you don’t want a fast game, make it clear beforehand. Some of us like fast games and many of them. Why can’t we have both?
@@derrickpaulson3093 Nah. I will literally scoop. I literally quit Yu-Gi-Oh because of the pace and negations. I didn't come to Magic to encounter the same thing. It's not fun. I've been doing a lot of research before the transfer and Magic was originally a slow paced game. Some people don't take time out of their day to go to their local store just for their games to be over in turn 2 or 3.
Rule zero would not work because who is actually gonna tell someone who spent that much money on their cards that they can’t play them. And the person who spent them isn’t gonna listen to rule zero either. Banning them is a good thing so the rest of us who don’t blow 200$ on a single card can play in a more balanced environment. I do think that Cedh should be its own thing so then folks who spent that much no matter how ridiculous it may be can still have their value intact and be able to play
Spoke with my playgroup. I said that my kitchen table isn't an LGS so none of these cards will be banned at my home. That being said, I'll toss a few extra mana rocks in my backpack in case I go to an LGS and need to swap out Dockside for one of them.
@@SilverWolf89936actually, it is absolutely good to hear how people will react to this nonsense. Anecdotal evidence is appreciated. I, too will be disregarding the nonsense of a ban.
Sorry Im Late 😅 But I feel as a none CEDH player that these bans are Good. But I feel very Sorry for those people investing in those cards and see Them drop to 1/10 of its value 😢😢
I'm impressed, but this largely affects other players more than it does me. Since I play commanders with low cmc and/or cheat themselves out fast, manna going away solidifies Magda and Yuriko as the top-of-the-rung Commanders. My poor Edward deck will never know what a Dockside resolution feels like, but it will function all the same in mid-range. I slapped Nadu as commander for the Merfolk deck in case this happens. The good news is that I still have a fully functional person with some 0-cost equipment. Jeweled Lotus and Manna crypt are exactly the way I build my decks the way they are. I want to keep up with the fast manna players, and now I'm left outpacing them, but I don't feel great for other people at the store I go to or some members of my playgroup. They devoted a lot of time and money to these particular cards.
For anyone that lost money. I'd like to share that Josh for the command zone (largest WOTC sponsored edh channel) is on the RC advisory board while being paid by WOTC. Imo, that's unethical and sets up a situation where an individual holds far too much power over the market.
I am apart of several different communities of various power levels. From low level flavorful jank, to top tier 100% proxy friendly CEDH. 99% of the ppl I've heard from so far are not happy with this ban, and are going to continue playing all the cards (except Nadu. Most knew it was a problem, and seen the ban coming). The other 1% say they understand the ban, but also dont care if others continue to run them.
For me personally. Watching a lot of Commander and play casual commander i bearly see those cards…… Feels like they ban them to change cedh idk…… Who knows really their explanation for the bans is interesting i guess…. Mb other people see those a lot more in casual i suppose
My casual group all run these cards and to be honest, it was making Magic unfun for me. I love building creative decks and trying stuff and every game literally just felt like "Make something explosive happen before everyone else or lose." because it was just a race to someone's infinite combo. None of my decks could hang seriously and the idea of spending so much on 3 cards was absurd just for the sake of being a part of that race.
Agreed. I’m so glad these toxic cards are out. It’ll force people to build creatively now. Or at least a little more. I would target certain players in my group just because I knew they had dockside and I had to get them out first everytime or risk just getting demolished. Only because I didn’t play those sorts of cards. Now I don’t have to worry about it which is nice. And I don’t have to basically target this one player in particular anymore.
The rules committee has no idea what they’ve done - they certainly didn’t take into account the financial ruin this will bring . When is the last time a $180 card got banned it’s unbelievably stupid of them and very self righteous of them to think a slower format is better, and without any data to support any of their decisions such as how often these cards were played
@@joshhill8894or maybe having the largest financial loss for players in the history of the game is a bad thing? Sorry, but just because you want to proxy or play cheap doesn’t mean your method is right.
the self righteous are the people who think their collection value should impact the format. Sucks you wasted your money, im sure you played enough games to get youe value from it though.
@@GorrnLord The RC should use data not feelings. How often did your games involve someone winning because of these cards ? 3%. 5% ? I never cast a Dockside outside of cedh, I only played crypt and Lotus in my high power decks, I’ve played them 3-5 times over the past 12 months, and it didn’t auto win me the game like Thassa’s Oracle does
@@bobthor9647 ive played plenty of games at my lgs where only 1 or 2 players had those cards in their decks and many of those games, most of them even, that 1 or 2 players just ran away with it. Theyre free cost cards where the only draw back to playing them in every single deck is the physical cost of the cards.
I own all these and am happy to see them go. My playgroup had already banned them. For those not wishing to provide a bad experience for casuals. You should alse be happy. In my experience, rule 0 doesn't work with people you don't know on a personal basis.
Rule zero works unless people lie. If they lie, never play with them again or be more specific. Example: “do you run fast mana like mana crypt and want a fast game?” “No I’m looking for a casual game.” “Sounds good. Me too.” Done.
A card that costs 0 isn’t the same as a card that costs 1 - being able to realize this is what separates casual Players from good players . And they’ve banned cards good players spent $500 or more on for no reason
Brother, I couldn’t agree with you more. Talk about a consensus-building echo chamber of groupthink that is a shill for WoTC/Hasbro? Yup, that is The Command Zone.
The rules committee has no idea what they’ve done - they certainly didn’t take into account the financial ruin this will bring . When is the last time a $180 card got banned it’s unbelievably stupid of them and very self righteous
Money is money and I'm sorry to hear people are struggling. But if your investment into these cards is that reliant on one format and one card it just silly. If these were 500 to 1000 plus cards I get it. But at 200 dollars minus these were just overinflated
I love it only because I dont own any of these cards and can only imagine how upset the people who treat these cards like stocks knowing all these money cards are taking hits
Sorry but it’s not like most of us have a hundred copies. Even one of these taking a hit is insane. This is the single largest loss to player faith and value to ever hit the game. Not a good thing.
He means that it is a non-deterministic value engine which makes an average turn take ages to execute, cannot be shortcut/looped and is reasonably likely to fizzle out after using up 30 mins of game time.
They wont until the fallout cycle is over. They only banned mana crypt now because LC of Ixalan cycle is over. Collector booster sales will fall of quite a bit more for those chases. Commander Masters will do the same thing.
It could also be they are butt hurt that they cost some much. So let’s ban the anything that destroys lands, or anything that has a 0 casting cost. It really seems like they just want more people to play which is great. But why band cards when we have rule zero for a reason. If your play group doesn’t want to play with those cards then that’s what you should do but why be a worse player (aka dumb yourself down) for other people. That seems like the other players need to build up to your level not the ladder.
I feel sry for people who pulled one of these out of a booster and were rly happy about it. I am not sry for people who did buy a copy of each of these cards for every deck they own, treating them as an investment. Guys, you are buying cardboard. This is not the stock market. I also think that the majority of people does not doubt that these bans will have a positive impact on gameplay.
Sorry but one of the reasons I play edh is because unlike other formats it was supposedly the safest for investments (it is a “collectible” card game which implies value) and WOTC even broadcast that investments into big cards like mana crypt with so many reprints was safe. This stupid ban destroyed player faith in that.
i feel sour on it cause banning the fast mana now feels way too late
also feels lame to give sol ring ban immunity due to being iconic imo
yeah. giving sol ring immunity is just stupid
I think that's a stupid reason to give it ban immunity, but also I don't think it should be banned. So it doesnt really matter to me
They will lose money on a ton of precons!
So jewled lotus is useless? That’s dumb.
I saw some fun legacy deck that use jeweled lotus with doubling cube.
It's not useless, you can flip it upside down and use it as a token.
@@delailama736 or when you dying of cold you can burn it (almost dont work but better then nothing if you have few hundred play set)
No, it was dumb to print it like that, and to buy it/chase it.
Reading comments on other videos looks like jeweled lotus is the one most people are upset about. Including me who just bought one 2 days ago and never got to play it.
I was upset about it but they just banned it, so I no longer need to be upset about it ruining games.
Reprint and add text to Jeweled Lotus and fix it retroactively (Cast only if total commander cost is 6 or more) This still allows high cost commanders to utilize it and commander tax to be softened once)
Why reprint the card with new text that is already banned. They should just make new cards (which they already do) that aren't freaking broken on day 1. They could make a new card called Jeweled Lotus Petal 🪷 or something that does what you were talking about.
LMAO this will never work 😆😆
I like your idea❤
Lol. Why not go and find a creative, unique way to play your high-cost commander and actually enjoy the casual-ness of the commander format? Seems like a good time for people to give up net-decking and learning how to search on scryfall.
This is actually super smart
Jeweled lotus is the worst one, literally a useless card everywhere else on purpose
Mana crypt hurts the most, was the ultimate booster chase for years
Ehh its a card game, not a investment. Most people got years of play out of it. Decks will adapt, new cards and combo lines will emergency. But this does help the casual format at LGS, where people play fast mana and it can feel really unfair, and can be a form of price gateing
"booster chaser" youre a gambler, you dont care about the card, you care about hitting a jackpot.
@@GorrnLord Lol if no one cared about the card, it wouldn't be worth $$$.
@@vakuzar Missed the point so badly that it had to be intentional. explain it to me then how buying multiple booster boxes is a better use of money than just buying the $200 card besides the dopamine hit when you "win" by pulling it or any of the other higher value cards from the set.
Also, cEDH needs to be its own format entirely. Different rules committee.
Really should split them. Different committee, different banlist. They’ll still be 99% the same in terms of available cards, but the mindset/playstyle of the two formats are totally different.
Agreed! Too many silly bans that are geared towards casual. When it's blatantly not...
Yeah, but any time this conversation is brought up, cEDH players get extremely whiny about it. Even though it needs to happen, they don't want separate lists for what ever reason.
Need to get rid of the whiny casual players first 😂 The only reason these bans exist is because there's a bunch of casual players who enjoy stomping on low-power decks, causing other casuals to whine about them.
LOL I been saying this for the last few years. The Rules Committee is not keeping up on the current trends of EDH. There really needs to be Casual EDH RC and CEDH RC ban list :P
"THEY" want it to be slower but pods/people and metas play how they play. their vision isn't what others are. they don't play cedh a lot so why step on other people's foots?
The most important thing about these bans isn't the specific cards... it is the message it sends to WotC. That said, I certainly empathize with anyone who spent a ton of money on these cards.
This makes me worried slightly for the future philosophy. I worry that the most powerful cedh cards dont see enough casual play for the RC to care, but the more balanced cedh cards DO see enough casual play to raise eyebrows, leading to bans that cut off the bottom of the cedh meta, leaving the top untouched, leading to more homogeny instead of less.
If this ban was the same except dockside, I think people would be fine with it. Unfortunately dockside is, like you said, a good card holding together a lot more off meta decks.
I think the banning of these cards shows a significant trend of the whole format moving more and more competitively. As more people begin to play commander and it becomes the flagship format, youll have more and more people who want to play to win, and build their decks the best they can be. EDH has such a large card pool you dont have to try very hard to do something broken. As more and more people discover more of those broken things and as wizards keeps printing powerful cards, the format will continue to speed up and power up.
RC Members' LGS yesterday. "I wonder why this person just unloaded all of their Mana Crypts along with their Docksides. That's odd. Oh well, let's list them." LOL
Rules Committee: “We heard you loud and clear…we’re banning Rhystic Study too.”
Do you pay the one?
That would be kinda hype though.
Can you throw Smothering Tithe, Fierce Guardianship, Deflecting Swat, Cyclonic Rift, and tutors on the ban list next? Jokes aside, I run all of them spread across 10 decks, some have them, some don't. It is what it is and I'm probably ignoring the bans depending on playgroup.
Frankly, this was what I thought was coming.
@@davidchan3781 i feel like smothering is a necessary evil. It, in my mind, pushes demand for enchantment removal in all colors, (red, black and blue can’t do it very well) and although it’s broken with wheels, it de-incentivizes wizards from making a wheeling commander in white +grixis.
The rest can stay. Removal is removal and doesn’t necessarily advance the board, your position or win the game on their own.
Jeweled lotus was only playable in commander
No it's not. It is actually a really strong card in Vintage.
@@fiber1881 a format that doesmt have a commander...
@Gashnaw
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Vintage doesn’t use it because the commander text, it uses it because it’s a zero cost artifact.
The are Combos using Doubling Cube, the doubled Mana does not have the Commander-restriction.
@@ShuffleHerci so you pay 3 mana to get 3 mana and you still can not use that original 3 mana on anything but a commander.
I’m pissed we need a cedh format where these cards are fine
Luckily Thassa’s Oracle combos are still legal for casual . See you at the casual tables
Make 'em eat Thoracle until they understand it's a people issue and NOT a power issue
I feel like the fast mana thing really is something for a rule 0 conversation. I'm sorry, but there are so many things people dislike that it just feels abritrary and mean to punish those who play with fast mana. You know what I don't finde enjoyable? Coutnerspells. Should we ban all the counterspells now because they impede me on playing my stuff? No. I need to be a big boy and suck it up and play around them. My Greven, Predator Captain for example was only playable because I had Jeweled, Mana Crypt and Dockside in there. I need to be fast to have a chance at winning against 3 opponents. I can basically dissolve it now.
So now you still have rule 0 conversation as you said.
I got banned mox opal and I dealt with it. I got pissed and stop playing modern all together. But when I look back in time, It was a right choice for format. (But banning card made for commander like lotus was without warning stupid).
Rule zero conversations are all that is needed outside of tournament play. No RC required if players can communicate the power level of the game you want. Example: “do you run fast mana like Mana Crypt?” “Yes I am playing a more competitive cedh deck.” “Cool, but I’m really looking for a slower game.” “No worries, man.” The end.
On cedh the RC has said that they only make decisions for casual and if cedh players want to curate cedh they could create their own rc
It's fucking insane these bans are to slow the format down and they left thassa's oracle alone what a fucking joke
What's wrong with 2 mana win the game?
Oracle needs some set up, you argue that it is easy to set up. But it doesnt just auto win by itself. Meanwhile a turn 1 crypt and lotus costs nothing and catapults you several turns ahead from the beginning of the game. If its a game where not everyone has those cards then the people without them are massively behind with next to no way to catch up.
@@GorrnLordby that logic lotus does nothing and mana crypt only kills you
@@D0012D13 those cards are free and you should look up what the word logic means because you sorely misunderstood it. You can atleast counter oracle or consultation. you cant counter a turn one 0 cost.
So what are the #2 cards behind each of these cards that will move into its spot? Interested.
What has two thumbs and is ignoring the entire ban list now...
A sore loser? Time to quit net-decking and build your own decks with some original cards
I bought them all the last months for high price. I give a shit on this stupid ban
@@delailama736 jealous poor? Time to stop banning other people's cards because you can't afford them?
@@delailama736or someone who values their cards and enjoys the game. Troll much?
@@BloodSplatterArtist Lol. How do you get to poor from net-decking? Most poor people net-deck because they want the most synergistic deck with the least number of cards bought as possible.
I advocate for ignoring the RC. CEDH needs it's own banlist and regular EDH is a casual format and some random dude's cant' dictate what to play. Having a banlist is a stupid idea in EDH to begin with. That's what a rule zero conversation is for. As if I'll get beaten up next time i'll play at my LGS with Grim Monolith, LED, Mox Diamond and Timetwister stuff just because they are not banned. So the only place where a banlist takes place is in cEDH and there you will neither decrease its speed because so many fast mana options are still available nor improve deck diversity since those cards helped boost fringe Commanders.
Bro, how are you always “just getting out of the shower”?!
The amount of time I've had the same question 😂😂😂
We wake up shower and TH-cam. I’m a simple man of routine. 😂
@@decktechsfordeckswith nice hair bro
@@decktechsfordecks love it! Lol
Accessibility is the most important factor of the longevity and healthiness of a game. Having $100+ cards that warp games to the extent these ones do is just flat out detrimental. I’m glad this step was taken, and think the rules committee need to go much further, taking Gaea’s Cradle, Mishra’s Workshop, original duals and a few more out of the format.
I do think having a separate cedh ban list is a good idea to maintain the explosive gameplay some players want.
I was slowly proxying and selling my expensive stuff, dock was already gone but i still had 2 crypts...very sad for not rushing the process
“I don’t see how it benefits the meta” it shifts the meta. Now the only unfortunate part is that we don’t have a committee for cedh so we can’t adjust the meta further
i feel like the table is adjusting its powerlevel by itself by pregame discussion about it. the bans (especially rendering JL completely worthless??) was just random. if you wanna play slower games just have that talk before starting a game and when somebody still plays lots of fast mana thats the person's fault and not the cards?
I do kind of see why they wanted to ban these things, just wanting to slow things down and so on. But I do think it’s dumb that we just had 1 set with Jeweled lotus being a big chase card and another with mana crypt as a chase card, people have spent tons trying to pull them then in the same year they banned those cards after those people have spent all that money, I buy singles so that issue isn’t as bad for me but I feel bad for all the people who have spent all that money and been really happy they pulled the card .
If cedh decided to make its own rules I’d probably be able to accept this ban because my cards will still be usable in that format, but with them currently being unusable alltogether it’s a bit grim, if they were cheap easy to get cards non of us would really care, but anyone who’s gone ahead and bought the cards for them to just become 2p chaff it’s pretty grim, I only just got back into magic this past year so iv only just found and bought these cards so for them to vanish practically right after I got them is preeeetty frustrating, I’m finally understanding the proxy debate and thinking I may have to join the proxy friendly group moving forward lol.
Those people are stupid gamblers for chasing. They could have just bought the card outright if they really wanted it. Those people WANTED to spend money to chase. Dont try to act like suddenly this makes that money wasted.
@@GorrnLord well yeah I mentioned buying singles aswell because that’s how I got mine. But I know people who also pulled them packs recently, and it would be as simple as we’re at fnm and they grab a couple packs to try their luck, they finally got good luck yay, then got slapped with the ban straight after lol, whether that’s the way to go about getting one or not that’s still gonna feel shit, doesn’t matter if you bought it out right or got lucky with a pack that’s still a hype pull that you’d be happy to play then you then find out you can’t . I’m not saying anyone’s experience is worse than anyone else’s, I saw a pic of a guy that spent £7000 buying multiples of the singles , like it was shit for everyone lol. The only people it wasn’t shit for is proxy players and people that don’t play high power cards, and ya know lucky them and all that, doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t still a bit of sting from our most expensive cards we like playing being made useless , it’s all just opinions at the end of the day bud.
I give a shit about this Bans. Just bought this old cards this year. Stupid decision. Ordered my 4th mana crypt today for half the price than last month's.
I wonder if this will make Mana Crypt price finally drop 🤔
A LCI special guests sold for $75 today on TCG. It's a bloodbath. lol
Yes, but who's buying?
Prices are massively dropping right now, yes. Except for the super rare versions like the Neon Ink foils.
This may be an unpopular take: but banning dockside is dumb af.
Nobody could make a case for banning a card thats dependent on how well your opponents are doing.
Not that I would, but I'd sooner argue that smothering tithe should go before dockside.
Sounds like someone is just mad a op card got banned 🤣
Dockside comboes with 3 A/E on the field, very easy turn 3 in casual
I mean if it was just a single target players A/E but everyone having 1-2 A/E isn't exactly them "doing well"
Seen way to many games get closed out of nowhere by a single dockside.
After all the recent clue/food/treasure dumps in recent set. He just had to die now, he was on edge before, now he is a monster guaranteed
I call Dockside “Baby’s first Combo” because it’s soooo easy to combo and out of nowhere too. Good riddance
The other main issue here is a member of the rules committee admitting communicating their plan with Wizards for this a YEAR ago. Do you know what that lines up with? Yeah, Commander Masters… So they knew that Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt were going to get thrown in the dumpster but because it was going to cost Wizards too much to fix and redesign two sets they went with releasing them anyway. That’s super bad in my opinion. CMM and LCI were two sets that people opened a LOT of going for the chase cards that are now banned. It’s just a really bad look on Wizards and the Rules Committee. The member of the Rules Committee really shouldn’t have even said anything but I’m glad he did. It just sets an incredibly ominous precedent. ANY powerful card that is only played in commander is now potentially on the chopping block to get financially ruined. It’s bad. It causes even more of a lack in faith in Wizards to somewhat respect the value of our collections. And it gives the rules committee incredible power. This sounds crazy but I’m really close to just selling my entire collection or at least the expensive staples. I have a lot of money in Magic. For example these bans didn’t just loose me 100s of dollars. I have at least 5copies of each of those three big staples. It lost me 1000s. When it impacts people financially is when I start to question the decision. Just think, many cards “accelerate” the game in much of the same way. Rhystic Study, Conc Sphinx, ANY TUTOR, Grim Monolith, Dark Rit, ect. You get my point. What the Rules Committee just did here puts ALL of these cards into question based on their philosophy of banning Mana Crypt, J-low, and Dockside. It’s not a good look guys.
I don't like the dockside ban. Rip mono red, ban that boring thassas and consul then
Thing is, who are they to tell us how to build/play our decks. The whole "we think..." doesnt make sense. One group doesnt think for everyone. I did see Dockside ban coming from miles away, tho.
they are people who made the game. But rule 0 exist so u do what u want with that info. its simple so stop crying
Well, they own the format and this is their vision for it. Bans are never unanimous, even when WotC does them.
Simple then, disband the RC. Wizards owns the game and can do that any time they want, like when the worst banning in the history of the game leads to the most loss of value ever seen in mtg card market. Just for example.
As a Yu-Gi-Oh player seeing the crazy reaction to these bans is hilarious.
This is a great move for casual
I'm exclusively an EDH player, I've feared running into anyone who starts with these fast mana pieces, especially if they can bounce dockside. and I'm honestly fine with them banning them. I'd never pay to play them anyway.
Its a good thing. They can now release weakened and tweaked versions of these cards, but these cards were too powerful and too expensive. Not healthy for the game.
It’s not a good thing for the people who owned these cards for years, now these cards are worthless
@@tidal_overdrive536stop whining 😂😂😂
@@tidal_overdrive536boohoo. Folks shouldn’t be spending that much money on one card. They were busted and forced every other deck to speed up and play all the same expensive interaction just to keep up. And even then often times the dockside player still wins
@@tidal_overdrive536they bought a card that they used for years. Do you get mad when you put 200k miles on a car and can't sell it for what you paid?
@@joshhill8894actually sounds like your whining because you took a knife to a gunfight. Have a pregame talk like a man and play a balanced game. Easy as pie.
Wow no jewled lotus or dockside in krenko anymore... Definitely dropped its power level a degree or two
I'm for all four banned. Jeweled Lotus is broken as Black Lotus was. Nadu was banned as a commander in duel commander already. Dockside Extortinist was banned already in many formats. Mana Crypt had a bad history in MTG.
I agree for casual, but cedh is not the same thing. Two banlists would make everyone happy with literally no downside.
You said it bro, absolutely torn
Banning jewelled lotus is insane. It literally can only be played in commander. Way to go wasting my money out of nowhere
Why should the rules committee consider the product viability and price of cards in a format where they are solely trying to cultivate what most players agree is the most fun way to play???
I'm selling everything mtgs been dying for years.
RC is there to balance the format, not keep your collections value. Play legacy
@henrytorr5810 you can't just make a statement and say "that's what most players think" when you don't really know that. Even if you did, those people could choose not to use it, that's what I did.
Besides, fun is subjective, and the RC tends to make terrible decisions.
The RC isn’t run by wotc so they don’t care lol
If i ever get to play with the RC, i will spam Orcale Consultation until they ban Oracle. That card has been a problem for all of its existence.
Rule Zero > Rules Committee.
Rule zero doesn’t work. People who spend the amount of money that these cards are worth are gonna play them regardless if people “rule zero” it.
@@joshhill8894sounds like you either don’t know how to communicate for a balanced game or give in to easily. I’ve never had an issue with asking my opponent how fast or powerful their deck is and either politely saying I need a slower game or pulling out a more competitive deck to match. It’s so so so simple.
Cedh wants to be fast though. No one in cEDH is complaining about these cards... why would you want to slow down games when they want to win by Turn 4? Hmmmm...
That jeweled Lotus though.... Hundred-dollar card reduced to zero😢
cEDH took flash from us when RC said they won't ban around cEDH. So I'm assuming the trust is gone and people jump to conclusions.
Bruh. My mono-red main just gets destroyed at every turn. Why do I play this game?
I’m not a cedh player but I was wondering if the ban list ruins etali
Rip consumer confidence, taking an indefinite break
🍿 dont mind me. Just salting my popcorn with all these comments.
It does feel like the cdh community at my lgs is just "find a dockside" -> "game over" in almost every deck.
Not really any worse than all the "find a thoracle" but it does get kind of obnoxious so i am looking forward to a shake up.
It's actually kind of funny how we have a guy that is just addicted to the most egregious card and he's still whining about paradox engine and doxkside ban started him on like a 6 hour long rant.
I mostly play normal commander and really like these bans. We have a guy who just copies decks that beat him and sticks mana crypt and jeweled lotus in the to make them "better" so assuming that's a normal thing... Ridding the world of those guys is a blessing
I really don't like this change, since (I feel like and think) these bannings only really benefit casual pods, where these cards don't really come up anyways. I feel like this just kills a lot of cEDH and also mainly high power decks. I feel like these cards plus free interaction and combos were the main line between casual and high power. With those out of the picture I think there will be many more high power decks in casual since they can't be differenciated that easily anymore.
Great, break the format in two. Use a sideboard to swap a deck between the two. Seperate ban lists could power up and power down an deck like Korvold
WOTC needs to print Jeweled Lotus in all pre-cons going forward LOL ;p
As a partial cedh player, I don't mind the bans per se, but they're there and I'm fine with em. I would have rather seen Thoracle banned though
Yet cards like Tabernacle, Oracle and Cradle are "fine"
They never heard of rule 0
Liking the banns just not that i started half year ago and spent 400 euro on those 3 cards 2 months ago haha
Rule 0 sucks. It works well at the kitchen table, not with random people.
"Hey bro, would you mind putting 500 bucks worth of cards out of your deck? Thank you!"
Rule 0 comes down to "Would you mind me playing proxies?" Or "Can i play this planeswalker as a commander?"
In any discord I have been playing, there are different tables for different power scalings. nything with fast mana like mana crypt and lotus was no being played under 8 and there was almost never any problem. Super easy to understand and ppl have generally more than 1 deck to play. Proxies are always allowed and no one cares if your deck is 100 bucks or 3k if it’s according to the pl we’re playing.
The Great Banning of 24
I mean if you are making exceptions in the pod for banned cards then all banned cards get to be played, fastbond, that ramp titan etc
I’m not sad for cEDH because it is such a meta specific competitive format. banning the best three cards in a competitive format rarely hurts the format. There’s always going to be a best-card-in-the-format and shaking up the format breathes new life into the format. Plus cEDH is so proxy friendly I’m hoping most people didn’t loose a ton of money on these bans. I owned one copy of each of these cards and I’m totally fine with the value of my single copies tanking for the overall health of the format. If you did invest your life savings in jeweled lotuses, sorry I guess…
I'm all for these bans. I came to play for the long term. It's not fun to win the game in 2-3 turns. This isn't Yu-Gi-Oh. If you want the game to end fast go play Yu-Gi-Oh. When I play and my opponent forfeits I don't enjoy it and sometimes I literally won't attack for multiple turns to see how it plays out whether I win or lose I just want to have fun.
Pregame discussion fixes and balances everything. If you don’t want a fast game, make it clear beforehand. Some of us like fast games and many of them. Why can’t we have both?
@@derrickpaulson3093 Nah. I will literally scoop. I literally quit Yu-Gi-Oh because of the pace and negations. I didn't come to Magic to encounter the same thing. It's not fun. I've been doing a lot of research before the transfer and Magic was originally a slow paced game. Some people don't take time out of their day to go to their local store just for their games to be over in turn 2 or 3.
We will also be banning all basic lands because games are to fast nowadays and its fast mana🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Rule zero would not work because who is actually gonna tell someone who spent that much money on their cards that they can’t play them. And the person who spent them isn’t gonna listen to rule zero either. Banning them is a good thing so the rest of us who don’t blow 200$ on a single card can play in a more balanced environment. I do think that Cedh should be its own thing so then folks who spent that much no matter how ridiculous it may be can still have their value intact and be able to play
The Command Zone can fit more ads into longer videos.
Spoke with my playgroup. I said that my kitchen table isn't an LGS so none of these cards will be banned at my home.
That being said, I'll toss a few extra mana rocks in my backpack in case I go to an LGS and need to swap out Dockside for one of them.
That’s a very important announcement, the whole world was worried about how you were gonna play your home games 😂😂😂
@@SilverWolf89936actually, it is absolutely good to hear how people will react to this nonsense. Anecdotal evidence is appreciated. I, too will be disregarding the nonsense of a ban.
Sorry Im Late 😅 But I feel as a none CEDH player that these bans are Good. But I feel very Sorry for those people investing in those cards and see Them drop to 1/10 of its value 😢😢
I'm impressed, but this largely affects other players more than it does me. Since I play commanders with low cmc and/or cheat themselves out fast, manna going away solidifies Magda and Yuriko as the top-of-the-rung Commanders. My poor Edward deck will never know what a Dockside resolution feels like, but it will function all the same in mid-range. I slapped Nadu as commander for the Merfolk deck in case this happens. The good news is that I still have a fully functional person with some 0-cost equipment. Jeweled Lotus and Manna crypt are exactly the way I build my decks the way they are. I want to keep up with the fast manna players, and now I'm left outpacing them, but I don't feel great for other people at the store I go to or some members of my playgroup. They devoted a lot of time and money to these particular cards.
It's all BS, play interaction. You have 3 players to stop degeneracy of 1. Or rule zero...
For anyone that lost money. I'd like to share that Josh for the command zone (largest WOTC sponsored edh channel) is on the RC advisory board while being paid by WOTC. Imo, that's unethical and sets up a situation where an individual holds far too much power over the market.
Nobody lost money. They still got what they decided to over pay for.
Proxie players "wtf my deck I paid $10 for got F'". Non proxie players "about time!"
I am apart of several different communities of various power levels. From low level flavorful jank, to top tier 100% proxy friendly CEDH.
99% of the ppl I've heard from so far are not happy with this ban, and are going to continue playing all the cards (except Nadu. Most knew it was a problem, and seen the ban coming).
The other 1% say they understand the ban, but also dont care if others continue to run them.
For me personally. Watching a lot of Commander and play casual commander i bearly see those cards……
Feels like they ban them to change cedh idk……
Who knows really their explanation for the bans is interesting i guess…. Mb other people see those a lot more in casual i suppose
Haven't played cedh in a while, but Godo is going to need a lot of changes
My casual group all run these cards and to be honest, it was making Magic unfun for me. I love building creative decks and trying stuff and every game literally just felt like "Make something explosive happen before everyone else or lose." because it was just a race to someone's infinite combo. None of my decks could hang seriously and the idea of spending so much on 3 cards was absurd just for the sake of being a part of that race.
Agreed. I’m so glad these toxic cards are out. It’ll force people to build creatively now. Or at least a little more. I would target certain players in my group just because I knew they had dockside and I had to get them out first everytime or risk just getting demolished. Only because I didn’t play those sorts of cards. Now I don’t have to worry about it which is nice. And I don’t have to basically target this one player in particular anymore.
Ancient tomb the one ring safe for now rystic study to🎉😊
The rules committee has no idea what they’ve done - they certainly didn’t take into account the financial ruin this will bring . When is the last time a $180 card got banned it’s unbelievably stupid of them and very self righteous of them to think a slower format is better, and without any data to support any of their decisions such as how often these cards were played
Boo hoo. Maybe people shouldn’t spend 200$ on one card
@@joshhill8894or maybe having the largest financial loss for players in the history of the game is a bad thing? Sorry, but just because you want to proxy or play cheap doesn’t mean your method is right.
the self righteous are the people who think their collection value should impact the format. Sucks you wasted your money, im sure you played enough games to get youe value from it though.
@@GorrnLord The RC should use data not feelings. How often did your games involve someone winning because of these cards ? 3%. 5% ? I never cast a Dockside outside of cedh, I only played crypt and Lotus in my high power decks, I’ve played them 3-5 times over the past 12 months, and it didn’t auto win me the game like Thassa’s Oracle does
@@bobthor9647 ive played plenty of games at my lgs where only 1 or 2 players had those cards in their decks and many of those games, most of them even, that 1 or 2 players just ran away with it. Theyre free cost cards where the only draw back to playing them in every single deck is the physical cost of the cards.
I own all these and am happy to see them go. My playgroup had already banned them. For those not wishing to provide a bad experience for casuals. You should alse be happy. In my experience, rule 0 doesn't work with people you don't know on a personal basis.
Rule zero works unless people lie. If they lie, never play with them again or be more specific. Example: “do you run fast mana like mana crypt and want a fast game?” “No I’m looking for a casual game.” “Sounds good. Me too.” Done.
Great bans.
How the fuck are they banning jeweled lotus? You can't play it in any other format.
A card that costs 0 isn’t the same as a card that costs 1 - being able to realize this is what separates casual
Players from good players . And they’ve banned cards good players spent $500 or more on for no reason
They are big bans
They banned jeweled lotus soon as they sold the last stock of their commander masters boxes
cedh players can always have rule 0 conversations before games and choose to allow these cards.
The problem is most tournaments for commander are cedh and they need to have uniformity in banlist. Casual tabletop edh does not.
If you’re going to get rid of low cost ramp, get rid of all of it.
Some is better than none. These were the worst offenders.
Summary: a few casual players who enjoy stomping on weaker decks ruins things for the rest of us 😂
Actually the Rules Committee, aka The Command Zone cast , has ruined things
Brother, I couldn’t agree with you more. Talk about a consensus-building echo chamber of groupthink that is a shill for WoTC/Hasbro? Yup, that is The Command Zone.
These cards were anything but casual. You could build multiple entire decks, or you could just buy those 3 cards.
Waahhh waaaahhh!!
The rules committee has no idea what they’ve done - they certainly didn’t take into account the financial ruin this will bring . When is the last time a $180 card got banned it’s unbelievably stupid of them and very self righteous
Man why are you spamming this whinefest?
Money is money and I'm sorry to hear people are struggling. But if your investment into these cards is that reliant on one format and one card it just silly. If these were 500 to 1000 plus cards I get it. But at 200 dollars minus these were just overinflated
@@TempRawr people paid those prices or more for special versions and now have zero . Many stores just lost thousands
Tens of millions of dollars just got evaporated
@@MisterWebb such is the nature of speculation
I love it only because I dont own any of these cards and can only imagine how upset the people who treat these cards like stocks knowing all these money cards are taking hits
Sorry but it’s not like most of us have a hundred copies. Even one of these taking a hit is insane. This is the single largest loss to player faith and value to ever hit the game. Not a good thing.
It's paradox engine on a card😂. What are you talking about?
"Crazy shit"
👎 From me
Someone has never seen Nadu in action.
He means that it is a non-deterministic value engine which makes an average turn take ages to execute, cannot be shortcut/looped and is reasonably likely to fizzle out after using up 30 mins of game time.
Then they should get rid of mana vault. It all about the same thing.
Mana Vault is a colourless mana ritual.
They wont until the fallout cycle is over. They only banned mana crypt now because LC of Ixalan cycle is over. Collector booster sales will fall of quite a bit more for those chases.
Commander Masters will do the same thing.
It could also be they are butt hurt that they cost some much. So let’s ban the anything that destroys lands, or anything that has a 0 casting cost. It really seems like they just want more people to play which is great. But why band cards when we have rule zero for a reason. If your play group doesn’t want to play with those cards then that’s what you should do but why be a worse player (aka dumb yourself down) for other people. That seems like the other players need to build up to your level not the ladder.
@@porty2097Not everyone has a rule zero, plenty of tournoments only use the official ban list
I feel sry for people who pulled one of these out of a booster and were rly happy about it.
I am not sry for people who did buy a copy of each of these cards for every deck they own, treating them as an investment.
Guys, you are buying cardboard. This is not the stock market.
I also think that the majority of people does not doubt that these bans will have a positive impact on gameplay.
Sorry but one of the reasons I play edh is because unlike other formats it was supposedly the safest for investments (it is a “collectible” card game which implies value) and WOTC even broadcast that investments into big cards like mana crypt with so many reprints was safe. This stupid ban destroyed player faith in that.
@@derrickpaulson3093 but every time a Reprint happens the value of your stuff goes down