I don't think Longines needs to catch or even compete with Omega. Honestly, I don't think, in most people's eyes, can match the cache Omega has in the overall watch market. However, that doesn't matter to me. Longines has its own lane to ride in and it's one that it does very well in a variety of ways. I've been pretty satisfied and most interested in their vintage reissues. They excel at bringing the past back to the modern market and it doesn't cost that much, relatively speaking, to get into those and the brand's catalog overall.
Regarding design, Longine has more models that I like. And on design, I never liked "the wave" on the seamaster. In some ways Omega annoyes me: The milking of the 007 franchise, all the anniversary releases, and the 111 versions of the speedmaster is just....silly at least. That said, the railmaster is comming this way.
@simonlauridsen4825 yeah, I've also never been a fan of wavy dials. If I had to choose, I actually like the older wave dials, sort of what they've returned to with the newer no date models. The waves are more subtle. I actually don't like the new TAG Heuer Aquaracers.with them, also. I prefer the older dial with the straight horizontals. Going back to Omega. They are going to continue doing what they are doing. I don't mind choices and variety.. be it a lot are around either the Speedmaster or Seamaster. I just pick which I like the most and casually take note of everything else.
@simonlauridsen4825 and, yeah.. I find I like the variety of model designs Longines offers over Omega. I don't know them all, but, from what I know and have seen between the 2 brands, Longines are easier to entertain a purchase over Omega, for me.
I think Swatch group looks at the relationship between Longines and Omega like Rolex looks at the relationship between Rolex and Tudor. Just like Tudor is the "shield" for Rolex against lower tier watches, Longines is the "shield" for Omega against lower tier watch brands.
@@Pler1978 well that isn’t how search engines work. People are actively looking for longines videos and they will find them. You may not have met a longines fan but there are billions of people in the world.
Agreed. The quality of Omega is in another class although Longines has great designs. Longines also don't do high horology movements like the Chrono chime, 321, or tourbillion. This is sort of a weird comparison. Longines doesn't even have one icon that is know by leman.
I searched for a new watch for 6 months and randomly saw my first longines and it was a 37mm champagne dial spirit and I bought it on the spot. I am quite picky but this watch spoke to me. High quality watches, I personally like them more than Omega.
Great video Bruce. This conversation amongst Longines, omega and Swatch serves as a reminder how lucky we are Breitling is privately owned and serves exclusively market forces and not central planning from a conglomerate like Swatch. Longines will always be limited by Swatch, almost by necessity.
Longines sell 1.5 million watches a year. Omega sell 570,000 watches per year so I’d say Longines are ahead of omega. Other than that why compare. I have both in my collection and love them both. I don’t care how they are perceived by others.
Which they will not. They want Longines to catch Tudor. Omega will compete with Rolex. They have to do this to prevent Tudor from catching Omega and making Omega appear as not being on the level of Rolex. That's why Tudor now has METAS, just like Omega.
I hope they stay where they are $2k (even some less) - $4k. They have so many different watches I really like. Omega is really $5k & up. Tudor is really $3k (1926 is less only) - $5k. I think each of these 3 brands stand on their own & especially as Longines & Omega are part of Swatch they are priced as part of the conglomerate which makes sense to me.
Longines do offer a lot for the money at their level. The Zulu Time and Big Eye have beautifully detailed dials, and I'd say the BE rivals the Speedy dial and arguably exceeds it in some ways, and the quality of the pushers is basically equal, but Omega's case designs and finishing are far superior to Longines and create a more elevated look that they simply cannot match. Re: brand perception. It's important to mention that Longines have a very different reputation in Asia than they do in the Anglosphere. In places like America they are seen as an upmarket mall watch that is heavily discounted, but in Asia they have more prestige as a luxury offering.
Longines should catch up with Tudor or pass them by. Longines has the quality for it. Tudor is still ahead imho but longines is catching up. Longines feels less luxurious then Tudor imho but Longines has the better models/heritage. Longines should pay a little bit more attention to details. The devil is in the details. For instance; the Ultra Chron is a great watch but the dial is too busy imho. The dial on the Big Eye is perfect. The branding is great on that watch. The Big eye could use a see through caseback and the Ultra Chron shoud have a lume pip on the seconds hand. Just my two cents.
Longines are more like Seiko than Tudor. They cater for all different kinds of buyers, and this hurts the general perception as a luxury brand. As for them being less 'luxurious', I guess it depends on what you are comparing. They have more 'elegant' looking pieces overall I'd say due to their dressier leanings, but the build quality of their more recent watches is hard to deny. You mentioned Big Eye, which is a great one. The titanium version is really well done and punches a little above its weight in terms of overall design and features. But you are also right that many of their watches are lacking one or two important features to provide a greater sense of completeness.
Can Tudor Catch Rolex? Same question. I think most people who buy Longines (or Tudor) are not only getting a lot of watch for the money, but they've already reached high on the shelf in their own terms. And Swatchgroup knows that, too. It's simply another part of the market for the most part.
A great question Bruce but personally I think Longines should be assessed on its own merits. They have really upped there game over the last years and from my experience have finishing on some models that rivals Omega and others beyond its price point. Omega has the co-axial escapement that no other mass producer currently has where Longines has exclusive use of arguably specific ETA movements in some models as you mention. The Swatch group are a very shrewd bunch who will watch (no pun intended) the market but as you mention will push Omega as the high end mass produced brand but may indeed lift Longines higher as it seems to me anyway what they have achieved over recent years anyway.
Longines has great design, actually works on their bracelets and better value. They should just reduce their offering and concentrate on their winners.
Longines has had its own thing going on for such a long time now I dont think its comparable to Omega per se. The build quality I think is pretty decent and has been for some time. There is no douchy marketing spin with Longines like some other brands out there its just simple and classy imho. No mess , no fuss just good value watches with a great pedigree/ history.
Longines has really upped its game recently and, historically, before the merger, it was at least the equal of Omega. Unfortunately, it will not be allowed to 'catch' Omega while both brands are owned by Swatch. Swatch has a pretty well defined hierarchy - helping the company to cover all market segments - and Longines is certainly lower in that pecking order than Omega.
I have Omega Deville Chronometer for already over 20 years. Looks like new and works like new. 2 revisions have been made during this time. I can only say, quality wise these Omegas are on a top level. Style and size of Omegas are, at least from my standpoint, just made for me. Longines have also a beautiful dial and also cases. I like them as well. I can't judge over the quality.
It's not the watch it's the story behind it. I gave a Tudor Black Bay to my father that he wore up until he passed away this Christmas. It wasn't a Rolex but to him it was more valuable because I gave it to him. In addition I have Omega Seamaster 300(Heritage line) that I value more than anything because it was given to me, by my mother, after I completed my 10th session of chemo last year. I will never sell these watches. Both will go to my son once I'm gone. The story is the real value.
Keep adding cosc movements , keep adding micro adjustment across ranges, make more use of Ultra Chron movement - they can have their cake and eat it in the segment.
Omega's Spirate system is one of the most important technological advancements in horology in decades. DECADES. Could the braintrust of Longines pull this off, either technically or from a marketing perspective? I don't think so.
Flik flak. We bought one for my son as a stocking stuffer when he was 5 y.o. It a decent, albeit overpriced, plastic watch at $40. The crazy thing is that the brand markets the watches as washable, *in a watching machine* but they're only have a *3 bar* rating. 30m!!! That is usually described as splash proof/okay to wash hands. That being said, no issues. He still wears it 4 years later (when he can't find his Swatch watch). I never did throw it in the washing machine, but I have had to clean it pretty thoroughly at the sink b/c the fabric strap is not removable.
When I was looking for my first (luxury) watch. It was a Rolex oyster perpetual blue face with 3,6,9 dial. But I decided to buy longines spirit 37 in blue dial because I love numbered indices and a date complication. It definitely punches up to a lot of brands other then omega in my opinion
The most expensive longines watch available at retail today is under 20K but Omega can go up into the hundreds of thousands. I think there’s a big jump here when we look at the higher end products of the two brands. Omega is at a different level.
Yeah, but it isn't the most expensive offerings that count for the general market, it's the entry points. Longines has a much lower price ceiling than Omega. Most Omega customers don't buy their high end watches. Their average retail sales price is much lower than Rolex, suggesting that people are generally buying standard models.
@ true but the high end products are what differentiates companies - a high end genesis versus a basic Hyundai are two products on extreme ends of the spectrum yet made by the same company
@@hemantishwaran5741 They are more stylish, but Longines watches also offer style. They are not like Citizen. Not sure about the Honda comparison either, but I get your point. It's more elevated than that, comparatively speaking, especially when looking at more recent pieces. Longines have stepped up in the last 3-4 years. High end pieces are more important for bragging rights and placement within the horological hierarchy, but it doesn't necessarily align with public brand perception. If it did, brands above Rolex would be more well known.
I think Longines lacks one iconic watch like for example when you say omega you think of the speedmaster moonwatch and the seamaster 300, when you say Rolex you think of Daytona and Submariner even Tissot you think of the PRX, I don’t think Longines has that specific watch. Also I think they need to create their own movements. Longines has the heritage and history but there’s something missing.
I think Swatch Group is probably fine with how Longines performs. It's a very popular brand in the Asian market. Before the pandemic, they were the fourth highest selling Swiss watch brand in the world. Even with Asian tourism down, they were still 7th last year. Tudor was 17th by comparison.
Longines competes with the likes of Oris and even Tudor. Tudor is trying to go further up market and compete with Omega and Grand Seiko but I don’t think they’re there yet.
Longines has a level of heritage that Tudor can only dream about. Oris, being an "independent" brand, plays on a different kind of field. While on similar price point and also with an aviation-related history, I don't see them as an alternative to Longines.
Have hydroconquest its a great watch. I think Longines stands on his own. Its a entry level luxury brand maybe in some level not for a watch enthusiasts more like for one watch type of people, who value some history, qaulity and the price. I would say they are in a tag heuer tier.
i love the Longines Spirit but for that price i'd rather save some more for a Railmaster and that is an OmegA. For this kinda price of course i'd go for a higher prestige brand ..
Easy answer, no. There is not one model with international name recognition in Longine’s lineup. Btw, I do not even own an omega so no dog in the fight
No, not for me. They make quality watches but their design language doesn’t make me want a watch from them over an Omega. Closest I ever got to getting a Longines was the big eye. But then Omega released the 3861 Speedy that improved on all the things that kept me from getting a Speedy. I also don’t think Swatch wants Longines to compete with Omega. They’re competing more with Tudor and maybe even Breitling. But I believe that Longines is selling more watches than them so they should continue doing that.
Yeah, but the Big Eye is hardly a poor man's Speedy. It has its own look/design. I purchased one just 4 days ago and a friend of mine with a Speedy was kind of jealous and joked he would steal it from me when I went to the bathroom. lol. But yes, Omega has superior/stronger design language, especially with their cases.
I really liked the big eye to where I almost bought it but I loved the Speedy more. I only want 1 chronograph in my collection as I’m not a big chronograph guy. If I wanted 2, then I would have also added the big eye. Now if they go manual wind and thin out the big eye, maybe I’d think about adding it again. Congrats on the big eye!
@@theenavybluemonster For sure. I don't think the Speedy is worth it at current prices, so I passed on it. I did buy an Aqua Terra though, but only because I got a great deal. As for the thickness of the BE, the titanium version is extremely light. It feels like there is literally nothing on my wrist at times. That's why I went for that version instead of the original.
In order for Longines to catch Omega, they'd have to sell over double their average annual QTY of watches (1.6m units in 2023 vs 560k units from Omega) as their sales value was 1.1b CHF Compared to Omegas 2.6b CHF (Swiss Francs). The average Omega sales price was just over $6k compared with $1.1k from Longines. The only way for Longines to catch up would be to at least double their avg sales price per unit, then grow their unit volume by over 40% and do all of this hoping Omega don't grow more at the same time. Omega also has James Bond and the moon Landings to keep driving new customers to the brand. Longjnes is still considered a Shopping Mall brand in many countries, despite their recent improvement in models and technology to make them a more desirable brand. (39mm Legend Diver/Spirit Zulu) etc
As you said, I don't think Swatch group would let them catch up to Omega. I do think they are making the brand better, and moving them up the ladder to be more where Omega used to be. Clearly Swatch group is trying to position Omega more on the level of Rolex. They definitely aren't where Tudor is at yet, but they are getting closer. It seems like they do have quite a few exclusive movements to the brand from ETA, but maybe I'm missing some more obscure current models. As for Flik Flak, you can find them in Swatch boutiques. My daughter's first (and so far only) watch was a Flik Flak she chose from the Las Vegas Swatch boutique. I saw them just a few weeks ago in our local boutique too.
Swatch will always keep Longines below Omega for market positioning purposes. The best materials and best movements will always be in the Omegas to justify the higher price tier.
I think what the Swatch Group is going for with Longines is to use them to take on Tudor and let Omega stay as the brand to take on Rolex. That's why I feel Longines is only getting movements developed for them from ETA and Omega is moving to have all their movements in-house A quick side note, I did hear a rumor that Longines was to be the brand to take on Rolex, but Swatch went with Omega as they felt that Omega would be easier to pronounce for English speakers. I have no idea if this is true though
The Swatch group has deliberately placed Longines below Omega in the hierarchy of brands.If they were ever equal they would be too expensive for many people to buy.That being said when you look at it from the perspective of the wearing of the watch by the consumer,how it looks and functions,its utilitarian and esthetic function makes it only a miniscule amount below Omega ,not even noticeable in daily usage.
Longines hasn’t been a fully functional watchmaker in decades and is now just a parts-bin Swatch brand with no R&D department of their own. The accomplishments of the past belong to a company that no longer exists. If Swatch decided to slap a Longines logo on an Aqua Terra or Speedmaster competitor nothing is stopping them other than the hit Omega would take from one division cannibalizing sales from another. VW learned this lesson when it attempted to blur lines with their Audi brand with the disastrous Phaeton. If anything, I’d expect swatch to start cutting brands soon as the market shrinks further. It’s already hard enough for consumers to distinguish between them and they should be looking to simplify and differentiate their brands rather than overlapping them.
No. I was really impressed by the legend diver 39 from online pics and based on the specs with the new clasp. I went to buy one a few days ago and was disappointed with the bracelet, which felt a bit cheap. I also tried on an Aqua Terra, but ended up walking out with an IWC pilot mark xx.
@lamentate07 it's got enough lume for my requirements. My main thing is clasp quick adjust because it's hot where I live, and a decent power reserve. The bracelet is better than anything in the price range, including Rolex surprisingly, and the case finishing is much better than I expected. I felt it was much higher quality than the Omegas. And I got 20% discount. So all in all, I'm very happy lol
@@Mike-dg9ib Yeah it shits on Omega's bracelets. I bought the Aqua Terra (blue teak) instead of the XX, but that was mostly because of the dial and case design. The bracelet is mediocre. 20% off is a great deal. I'd buy it at that price. Well done!
@@lamentate07 nice, my only disappointment was the closed case back. I was drawn to the aqua terra by the movement, so it was a close thing. One day I'll own a co-axial movement lol
Longines is happy where they are I mean why do they need to compete with omega? Teddy Baldesare did a great interview with the ceo maybe watch that then you can delete this video lol. There is a market for exactly where longines is and they are bossing it
Flikflak are actually watches for young children, basicaly when you learn how to read the time, very popular among my generation, I am 40, we all got one at some point for Christmas or our birthday
Unless Longines can change the design cues to many of their offerings and offer a genuine in house movement with complications, I don't see them catching Omega anytime soon. I am unsure why so many watch influencers seem to be pushing Longines so hard in the last year or so, they are still offering the same very long lugged cases by and enlarge that just don't wear well on the wrist. Options like the spirit titanium with its crazy long lugs or the majatek that wears like a brick, Its a shame as the quality in what they produce is definitely there and Longines do appear to be taking some customer feedback in with the release of the new hydroconquest which is a big improvement on the older model.
They never will unless the Swatch group get rid of that bloody tier list thing. Bruce seems like you never realized but Longines and Rado belong to the same category. Tissot Hamilton and Mido a notch below.
Longines (and Tissot) were both below the level they should be, but now they are perfectly placed in Swatch group portfolio. Longines does not play the game of Omega, but it's rather a Tudor competitor (and to me there's no competition, Longines wins by a margin). Omega is a Rolex competitor, and it would not make sense for Swatch Group to have two Rolex competitors. By the Way--- Longines is not entry level Luxury, that title should go to Tissot, they have some watches that have all the charachteristics to be called Luxury - Longines is rather "mid" Luxury with its current positioning.
i HOPE TO GOD they don't catch up to Omega's...PRICES, lol. the value for the designs, history, and quality is already very good. I certainly hope they continue to steward & evolve their line as well as they've demonstrated lately, but selfishly, there's not much risk-reward reason to try & keep clawing 'up-market' to where O is...
Start putting Tfit on the fly adjustment and more people will buy their watches. I bought the Aqua Terra but bought four Tudors. Tudor is listening to us…..
I can tell you for sure that this oversight says nothing about how the brands are positioned. Everyone knows that Certina are way above Balmain watches. Balmain watches are basically comparable to Calvin Klein watches…
First of all longines is good. But this comparison has no meaning whatsoever. Since both are in the swatch group, this comparison is meaningless. Also, Longines can never match the heritage of Omega. If Omega puts snoopy on a dial made out of cardboard it will sell and be a waiting list watch. We need to stop with these comparisons.
Look into Longines' history a bit more. They have a richer heritage than Omega, but Omega overtook them at a crucial point before the Quartz Crisis almost killed them both. Longines used to make their own movements and they were some of their best for their respective time periods.
It's a no brainer. Longines is the reason I'd never buy an Omega. With Omega you get a marginally better watch with probably close to zero real world improvement factor at a much, much higer price. Honestly, I'd just skip Omega and get into high horology instead.
Longines can definitely beat omega. They just need to fix their clasp/ bracelets a bit. Slim down their offerings too… they sell way too many models. I would say tissot and certina are in the same league. So why not omega and longines.
Comparing Omega to Tudor a couple days ago, now Longines…cmon Bruce, why are you dogging Omega? Longines and Tudor are nice, but a clear step below Omega.
How about, Has Laongines passed Tudor? Omega has Icons like the speedmaster, seamaters, ploprof, and more... Tudor has Rolex knock-offs... Longines walks Tudor, not up to Omega yet.
Omega has more long standing iconic models in their line (Moonwatch, Seamaster). Longines is repositioning itself recently with some excellent releases (the new spiritline is amazing, and the legend diver are a grea re-release) but it's true... in terms of long term history Longines is outstanding, probably only Breguet has a stronger heritage overall...
No probably not but I actually prefer Longines over Omega. Modern Omega doesn't do a damn thing for me. I actually find Modern Omega unrecognizable from what they once were. The Swatch group ruined the brand
I don't think Longines needs to catch or even compete with Omega. Honestly, I don't think, in most people's eyes, can match the cache Omega has in the overall watch market. However, that doesn't matter to me. Longines has its own lane to ride in and it's one that it does very well in a variety of ways. I've been pretty satisfied and most interested in their vintage reissues. They excel at bringing the past back to the modern market and it doesn't cost that much, relatively speaking, to get into those and the brand's catalog overall.
Regarding design, Longine has more models that I like.
And on design, I never liked "the wave" on the seamaster.
In some ways Omega annoyes me: The milking of the 007 franchise, all the anniversary releases, and the 111 versions of the speedmaster is just....silly at least.
That said, the railmaster is comming this way.
@simonlauridsen4825 yeah, I've also never been a fan of wavy dials. If I had to choose, I actually like the older wave dials, sort of what they've returned to with the newer no date models. The waves are more subtle. I actually don't like the new TAG Heuer Aquaracers.with them, also. I prefer the older dial with the straight horizontals. Going back to Omega. They are going to continue doing what they are doing. I don't mind choices and variety.. be it a lot are around either the Speedmaster or Seamaster. I just pick which I like the most and casually take note of everything else.
@simonlauridsen4825 and, yeah.. I find I like the variety of model designs Longines offers over Omega. I don't know them all, but, from what I know and have seen between the 2 brands, Longines are easier to entertain a purchase over Omega, for me.
Longines is one of the most recognized prestigious brands in Vietnam…just as popular as omega or rolex in my home country 😊
I have my great grandfathers Longines pocket watch from 1920 it still runs today:)
That is awesome
Short answer: No. But they don’t need to….Longines is a solid entry luxury brand.
I think Swatch group looks at the relationship between Longines and Omega like Rolex looks at the relationship between Rolex and Tudor. Just like Tudor is the "shield" for Rolex against lower tier watches, Longines is the "shield" for Omega against lower tier watch brands.
Planning to get some Longines for my kids High School grad to get them started in their watch collection.
A very solid start for sure dad.
My longines videos always get more search views than any other showing me more people are looking for this brand.
@@Pler1978 well that isn’t how search engines work. People are actively looking for longines videos and they will find them. You may not have met a longines fan but there are billions of people in the world.
Longines is a great brand but they’re no Omega.
Longines doesn't have a Speedmaster or Seamaster. That brand recognition is the separation.
Agreed. The quality of Omega is in another class although Longines has great designs. Longines also don't do high horology movements like the Chrono chime, 321, or tourbillion. This is sort of a weird comparison. Longines doesn't even have one icon that is know by leman.
I have both of them but I prefer Longines over Omega
I searched for a new watch for 6 months and randomly saw my first longines and it was a 37mm champagne dial spirit and I bought it on the spot. I am quite picky but this watch spoke to me. High quality watches, I personally like them more than Omega.
I hope Longines catches up to Omega quality wise but not price wise. Omega is not worth it anymore.
You know, I’ve never been to an A.D. for Longines. I need to check them out!!!!
Mentally in our heads we've " pigeon holed" Longines as entry level luxury in our era.
Great video Bruce. This conversation amongst Longines, omega and Swatch serves as a reminder how lucky we are Breitling is privately owned and serves exclusively market forces and not central planning from a conglomerate like Swatch. Longines will always be limited by Swatch, almost by necessity.
Longines sell 1.5 million watches a year. Omega sell 570,000 watches per year so I’d say Longines are ahead of omega. Other than that why compare. I have both in my collection and love them both. I don’t care how they are perceived by others.
Longines can easily catch Omega if the swatch group allows it. 😊
That is my thought as well
Which they will not. They want Longines to catch Tudor. Omega will compete with Rolex. They have to do this to prevent Tudor from catching Omega and making Omega appear as not being on the level of Rolex. That's why Tudor now has METAS, just like Omega.
@@saodavi6267 I'm not 100% sure but Longines I find seems to be much better quality and nicer offering than Tudor already
@@BigFerg-hf6uv For dress watches, yes. For divers? No.
@@saodavi6267Longines outsells Tudor by a lot
Yes is the answer. Longines is a way better value.
I hope they stay where they are $2k (even some less) - $4k. They have so many different watches I really like. Omega is really $5k & up. Tudor is really $3k (1926 is less only) - $5k. I think each of these 3 brands stand on their own & especially as Longines & Omega are part of Swatch they are priced as part of the conglomerate which makes sense to me.
In terms of value for money, they're already well ahead of Omega IMO. But regarding brand and price? No, Swatch Group would not allow it.
Would Tissot bypass Longines?
Love the show, love the Hydroconquest GMT as well!
Q should be Longines catching Tudor
Longines do offer a lot for the money at their level. The Zulu Time and Big Eye have beautifully detailed dials, and I'd say the BE rivals the Speedy dial and arguably exceeds it in some ways, and the quality of the pushers is basically equal, but Omega's case designs and finishing are far superior to Longines and create a more elevated look that they simply cannot match.
Re: brand perception. It's important to mention that Longines have a very different reputation in Asia than they do in the Anglosphere. In places like America they are seen as an upmarket mall watch that is heavily discounted, but in Asia they have more prestige as a luxury offering.
I agree! In Vietnam Longines is very popular and recognized as a luxurious brand
Longines should catch up with Tudor or pass them by. Longines has the quality for it. Tudor is still ahead imho but longines is catching up. Longines feels less luxurious then Tudor imho but Longines has the better models/heritage. Longines should pay a little bit more attention to details. The devil is in the details. For instance; the Ultra Chron is a great watch but the dial is too busy imho. The dial on the Big Eye is perfect. The branding is great on that watch. The Big eye could use a see through caseback and the Ultra Chron shoud have a lume pip on the seconds hand. Just my two cents.
Longines are more like Seiko than Tudor. They cater for all different kinds of buyers, and this hurts the general perception as a luxury brand. As for them being less 'luxurious', I guess it depends on what you are comparing. They have more 'elegant' looking pieces overall I'd say due to their dressier leanings, but the build quality of their more recent watches is hard to deny. You mentioned Big Eye, which is a great one. The titanium version is really well done and punches a little above its weight in terms of overall design and features. But you are also right that many of their watches are lacking one or two important features to provide a greater sense of completeness.
Can Tudor Catch Rolex? Same question. I think most people who buy Longines (or Tudor) are not only getting a lot of watch for the money, but they've already reached high on the shelf in their own terms. And Swatchgroup knows that, too. It's simply another part of the market for the most part.
Longines is more to compete with Tudor, not Omega (the same owner).
Close, but Tudor is playing catch-up to Longines not the other way around.
A great question Bruce but personally I think Longines should be assessed on its own merits. They have really upped there game over the last years and from my experience have finishing on some models that rivals Omega and others beyond its price point. Omega has the co-axial escapement that no other mass producer currently has where Longines has exclusive use of arguably specific ETA movements in some models as you mention. The Swatch group are a very shrewd bunch who will watch (no pun intended) the market but as you mention will push Omega as the high end mass produced brand but may indeed lift Longines higher as it seems to me anyway what they have achieved over recent years anyway.
Longines has great design, actually works on their bracelets and better value. They should just reduce their offering and concentrate on their winners.
Longines has had its own thing going on for such a long time now I dont think its comparable to Omega per se. The build quality I think is pretty decent and has been for some time. There is no douchy marketing spin with Longines like some other brands out there its just simple and classy imho. No mess , no fuss just good value watches with a great pedigree/ history.
Longines has really upped its game recently and, historically, before the merger, it was at least the equal of Omega. Unfortunately, it will not be allowed to 'catch' Omega while both brands are owned by Swatch. Swatch has a pretty well defined hierarchy - helping the company to cover all market segments - and Longines is certainly lower in that pecking order than Omega.
Longines is not allowed to catch or compete with Omega, the swatch group won’t allow it
I have Omega Deville Chronometer for already over 20 years. Looks like new and works like new. 2 revisions have been made during this time. I can only say, quality wise these Omegas are on a top level.
Style and size of Omegas are, at least from my standpoint, just made for me. Longines have also a beautiful dial and also cases. I like them as well. I can't judge over the quality.
It's not the watch it's the story behind it. I gave a Tudor Black Bay to my father that he wore up until he passed away this Christmas. It wasn't a Rolex but to him it was more valuable because I gave it to him. In addition I have Omega Seamaster 300(Heritage line) that I value more than anything because it was given to me, by my mother, after I completed my 10th session of chemo last year. I will never sell these watches. Both will go to my son once I'm gone. The story is the real value.
Hair looks better styled like this!
Bruce Longines compete with Tudor
Keep adding cosc movements , keep adding micro adjustment across ranges, make more use of Ultra Chron movement - they can have their cake and eat it in the segment.
Omega's Spirate system is one of the most important technological advancements in horology in decades. DECADES. Could the braintrust of Longines pull this off, either technically or from a marketing perspective? I don't think so.
Flik flak. We bought one for my son as a stocking stuffer when he was 5 y.o. It a decent, albeit overpriced, plastic watch at $40.
The crazy thing is that the brand markets the watches as washable, *in a watching machine* but they're only have a *3 bar* rating. 30m!!! That is usually described as splash proof/okay to wash hands.
That being said, no issues. He still wears it 4 years later (when he can't find his Swatch watch). I never did throw it in the washing machine, but I have had to clean it pretty thoroughly at the sink b/c the fabric strap is not removable.
When I was looking for my first (luxury) watch. It was a Rolex oyster perpetual blue face with 3,6,9 dial. But I decided to buy longines spirit 37 in blue dial because I love numbered indices and a date complication. It definitely punches up to a lot of brands other then omega in my opinion
The most expensive longines watch available at retail today is under 20K but Omega can go up into the hundreds of thousands. I think there’s a big jump here when we look at the higher end products of the two brands. Omega is at a different level.
Yeah, but it isn't the most expensive offerings that count for the general market, it's the entry points. Longines has a much lower price ceiling than Omega.
Most Omega customers don't buy their high end watches. Their average retail sales price is much lower than Rolex, suggesting that people are generally buying standard models.
@ true but the high end products are what differentiates companies - a high end genesis versus a basic Hyundai are two products on extreme ends of the spectrum yet made by the same company
@ overall omega is more stylish - longines is great value like a Honda
@@hemantishwaran5741 They are more stylish, but Longines watches also offer style. They are not like Citizen.
Not sure about the Honda comparison either, but I get your point. It's more elevated than that, comparatively speaking, especially when looking at more recent pieces. Longines have stepped up in the last 3-4 years.
High end pieces are more important for bragging rights and placement within the horological hierarchy, but it doesn't necessarily align with public brand perception. If it did, brands above Rolex would be more well known.
Disagree. Longines offers both style and value. Omega now just offers style and brand recogntion.
I think Longines lacks one iconic watch like for example when you say omega you think of the speedmaster moonwatch and the seamaster 300, when you say Rolex you think of Daytona and Submariner even Tissot you think of the PRX, I don’t think Longines has that specific watch. Also I think they need to create their own movements. Longines has the heritage and history but there’s something missing.
I think Swatch Group is probably fine with how Longines performs. It's a very popular brand in the Asian market. Before the pandemic, they were the fourth highest selling Swiss watch brand in the world. Even with Asian tourism down, they were still 7th last year. Tudor was 17th by comparison.
It is second to Tissot for worldwide sales. The figures you are referring to are profit.
I have a couple young kids and purchased Flik Flak brand watches for them in the Swatch boutiques
Longines competes with the likes of Oris and even Tudor. Tudor is trying to go further up market and compete with Omega and Grand Seiko but I don’t think they’re there yet.
Longines has a level of heritage that Tudor can only dream about. Oris, being an "independent" brand, plays on a different kind of field. While on similar price point and also with an aviation-related history, I don't see them as an alternative to Longines.
Have hydroconquest its a great watch. I think Longines stands on his own. Its a entry level luxury brand maybe in some level not for a watch enthusiasts more like for one watch type of people, who value some history, qaulity and the price. I would say they are in a tag heuer tier.
i love the Longines Spirit but for that price i'd rather save some more for a Railmaster and that is an OmegA. For this kinda price of course i'd go for a higher prestige brand ..
The Railmaster is 2.5 to 3 times the price of the Longines Spirit. Hardly a fair comparison. You aren't spending the same money.
Easy answer, no. There is not one model with international name recognition in Longine’s lineup. Btw, I do not even own an omega so no dog in the fight
Of course not, they are owned by the same parent company. Swatch decides who sells what and at which prices.
No, not for me. They make quality watches but their design language doesn’t make me want a watch from them over an Omega. Closest I ever got to getting a Longines was the big eye. But then Omega released the 3861 Speedy that improved on all the things that kept me from getting a Speedy.
I also don’t think Swatch wants Longines to compete with Omega. They’re competing more with Tudor and maybe even Breitling. But I believe that Longines is selling more watches than them so they should continue doing that.
Yeah, but the Big Eye is hardly a poor man's Speedy. It has its own look/design. I purchased one just 4 days ago and a friend of mine with a Speedy was kind of jealous and joked he would steal it from me when I went to the bathroom. lol.
But yes, Omega has superior/stronger design language, especially with their cases.
I really liked the big eye to where I almost bought it but I loved the Speedy more. I only want 1 chronograph in my collection as I’m not a big chronograph guy. If I wanted 2, then I would have also added the big eye. Now if they go manual wind and thin out the big eye, maybe I’d think about adding it again.
Congrats on the big eye!
@@theenavybluemonster For sure. I don't think the Speedy is worth it at current prices, so I passed on it. I did buy an Aqua Terra though, but only because I got a great deal.
As for the thickness of the BE, the titanium version is extremely light. It feels like there is literally nothing on my wrist at times. That's why I went for that version instead of the original.
@@lamentate07 Bulova Lunar Pilot is a decent chrono with space heritage and a great watch from a design perspective
@@BigFerg-hf6uv It looks fine and has a nice movement, but it is too big for me. I can just pull off the Big Eye which is 41mm.
In order for Longines to catch Omega, they'd have to sell over double their average annual QTY of watches (1.6m units in 2023 vs 560k units from Omega) as their sales value was 1.1b CHF Compared to Omegas 2.6b CHF (Swiss Francs). The average Omega sales price was just over $6k compared with $1.1k from Longines. The only way for Longines to catch up would be to at least double their avg sales price per unit, then grow their unit volume by over 40% and do all of this hoping Omega don't grow more at the same time. Omega also has James Bond and the moon Landings to keep driving new customers to the brand. Longjnes is still considered a Shopping Mall brand in many countries, despite their recent improvement in models and technology to make them a more desirable brand. (39mm Legend Diver/Spirit Zulu) etc
As you said, I don't think Swatch group would let them catch up to Omega. I do think they are making the brand better, and moving them up the ladder to be more where Omega used to be. Clearly Swatch group is trying to position Omega more on the level of Rolex. They definitely aren't where Tudor is at yet, but they are getting closer. It seems like they do have quite a few exclusive movements to the brand from ETA, but maybe I'm missing some more obscure current models.
As for Flik Flak, you can find them in Swatch boutiques. My daughter's first (and so far only) watch was a Flik Flak she chose from the Las Vegas Swatch boutique. I saw them just a few weeks ago in our local boutique too.
Not happening. Every brand in the Swatch group has its swim lane. Omega > Longines. Just the way it is.
It’s not a question of can they, but should they?
Swatch will always keep Longines below Omega for market positioning purposes. The best materials and best movements will always be in the Omegas to justify the higher price tier.
Great content as always Bruce! Hey a little off topic,but could you list the watches you have in your collection right now! Thanks ron
Hey Ron, I'll do a State of the Watch Collection within a month. I was waiting on one more inbound, but it wont arrive till March
I think what the Swatch Group is going for with Longines is to use them to take on Tudor and let Omega stay as the brand to take on Rolex. That's why I feel Longines is only getting movements developed for them from ETA and Omega is moving to have all their movements in-house
A quick side note, I did hear a rumor that Longines was to be the brand to take on Rolex, but Swatch went with Omega as they felt that Omega would be easier to pronounce for English speakers. I have no idea if this is true though
The Swatch group has deliberately placed Longines below Omega in the hierarchy of brands.If they were ever equal they would be too expensive for many people to buy.That being said when you look at it from the perspective of the wearing of the watch by the consumer,how it looks and functions,its utilitarian and esthetic function makes it only a miniscule amount below Omega ,not even noticeable in daily usage.
Longines hasn’t been a fully functional watchmaker in decades and is now just a parts-bin Swatch brand with no R&D department of their own. The accomplishments of the past belong to a company that no longer exists. If Swatch decided to slap a Longines logo on an Aqua Terra or Speedmaster competitor nothing is stopping them other than the hit Omega would take from one division cannibalizing sales from another. VW learned this lesson when it attempted to blur lines with their Audi brand with the disastrous Phaeton. If anything, I’d expect swatch to start cutting brands soon as the market shrinks further. It’s already hard enough for consumers to distinguish between them and they should be looking to simplify and differentiate their brands rather than overlapping them.
A short answer is NO!
However, they are seriously looking ahead and Tudor, Tag Heuer and possibly even Breitling could be in a trouble.
No, value play is one thing, but there doesn’t need to be “cross competition.” This is common watch enthusiast knowledge.
No. I was really impressed by the legend diver 39 from online pics and based on the specs with the new clasp. I went to buy one a few days ago and was disappointed with the bracelet, which felt a bit cheap. I also tried on an Aqua Terra, but ended up walking out with an IWC pilot mark xx.
You walked out with a watch that has a simple printed dial and punches well below its price point? Yeah the bracelet is nice, no doubt.
@lamentate07 it's got enough lume for my requirements. My main thing is clasp quick adjust because it's hot where I live, and a decent power reserve. The bracelet is better than anything in the price range, including Rolex surprisingly, and the case finishing is much better than I expected. I felt it was much higher quality than the Omegas. And I got 20% discount. So all in all, I'm very happy lol
@@Mike-dg9ib Yeah it shits on Omega's bracelets. I bought the Aqua Terra (blue teak) instead of the XX, but that was mostly because of the dial and case design. The bracelet is mediocre.
20% off is a great deal. I'd buy it at that price. Well done!
@@lamentate07 nice, my only disappointment was the closed case back. I was drawn to the aqua terra by the movement, so it was a close thing. One day I'll own a co-axial movement lol
If you were proposed one or the other would you go with the longines?🥴🤗
Longines is happy where they are I mean why do they need to compete with omega? Teddy Baldesare did a great interview with the ceo maybe watch that then you can delete this video lol. There is a market for exactly where longines is and they are bossing it
Flikflak are actually watches for young children, basicaly when you learn how to read the time, very popular among my generation, I am 40, we all got one at some point for Christmas or our birthday
Unless Longines can change the design cues to many of their offerings and offer a genuine in house movement with complications, I don't see them catching Omega anytime soon. I am unsure why so many watch influencers seem to be pushing Longines so hard in the last year or so, they are still offering the same very long lugged cases by and enlarge that just don't wear well on the wrist. Options like the spirit titanium with its crazy long lugs or the majatek that wears like a brick, Its a shame as the quality in what they produce is definitely there and Longines do appear to be taking some customer feedback in with the release of the new hydroconquest which is a big improvement on the older model.
They never will unless the Swatch group get rid of that bloody tier list thing.
Bruce seems like you never realized but Longines and Rado belong to the same category. Tissot Hamilton and Mido a notch below.
It all depends on the Longines owner and the public!
Longines (and Tissot) were both below the level they should be, but now they are perfectly placed in Swatch group portfolio. Longines does not play the game of Omega, but it's rather a Tudor competitor (and to me there's no competition, Longines wins by a margin). Omega is a Rolex competitor, and it would not make sense for Swatch Group to have two Rolex competitors. By the Way--- Longines is not entry level Luxury, that title should go to Tissot, they have some watches that have all the charachteristics to be called Luxury - Longines is rather "mid" Luxury with its current positioning.
i HOPE TO GOD they don't catch up to Omega's...PRICES, lol.
the value for the designs, history, and quality is already very good. I certainly hope they continue to steward & evolve their line as well as they've demonstrated lately, but selfishly, there's not much risk-reward reason to try & keep clawing 'up-market' to where O is...
Only if Swatch says so. 😂
Hmmm . . . Could Tudor catch Rolex??
Of course not, it's not in anyone's interests. 🤔
No, they should compete with Tudor
Longines can compete and beat Tudor for sure
Basically you are asking longine to increase its quality and price to move away from the enthusiast is watch lover than can’t afford omega
Start putting Tfit on the fly adjustment and more people will buy their watches. I bought the Aqua Terra but bought four Tudors. Tudor is listening to us…..
That would be like Tudor catching Rolex. So, no.
from what i see longines exceeds omega at the higher end and all ends actually
I can tell you for sure that this oversight says nothing about how the brands are positioned. Everyone knows that Certina are way above Balmain watches. Balmain watches are basically comparable to Calvin Klein watches…
First of all longines is good. But this comparison has no meaning whatsoever. Since both are in the swatch group, this comparison is meaningless. Also, Longines can never match the heritage of Omega. If Omega puts snoopy on a dial made out of cardboard it will sell and be a waiting list watch. We need to stop with these comparisons.
Look into Longines' history a bit more. They have a richer heritage than Omega, but Omega overtook them at a crucial point before the Quartz Crisis almost killed them both. Longines used to make their own movements and they were some of their best for their respective time periods.
Swatch will not let it happen.
But they will snipe Tudor.
It's a no brainer. Longines is the reason I'd never buy an Omega. With Omega you get a marginally better watch with probably close to zero real world improvement factor at a much, much higer price. Honestly, I'd just skip Omega and get into high horology instead.
لدي أوميغا سي ماستر الحديدة وفي نظري هي ألأجمل
Longines can definitely beat omega. They just need to fix their clasp/ bracelets a bit. Slim down their offerings too… they sell way too many models. I would say tissot and certina are in the same league. So why not omega and longines.
No they can’t
Comparing Omega to Tudor a couple days ago, now Longines…cmon Bruce, why are you dogging Omega? Longines and Tudor are nice, but a clear step below Omega.
How about, Has Laongines passed Tudor? Omega has Icons like the speedmaster, seamaters, ploprof, and more... Tudor has Rolex knock-offs... Longines walks Tudor, not up to Omega yet.
Omega is over priced now, longines will always stay below Omega.
Longines hardly catches seiko 😊
They are owned by the same company. To think there is any real competition is silly.
Longines make great watches but they wont catch Omega, they wont be allowed to, just like Tudor wouldnt be allowed to catch Rolex
Only if they stop trying to be Cartier, Rolex, etc.. and Swatch Group will never allow it
They are nothing like Rolex and don't take design cues from them. They have a much richer and longer history than Rolex.
@@lamentate07correct
@@lamentate07But Rolex is still the TOP DOG . Number #1 so it really doesn't matter
Longines better history. Omega better marketing.
Omega has more long standing iconic models in their line (Moonwatch, Seamaster). Longines is repositioning itself recently with some excellent releases (the new spiritline is amazing, and the legend diver are a grea re-release) but it's true... in terms of long term history Longines is outstanding, probably only Breguet has a stronger heritage overall...
Say what? Omega's marketing is GOD AWFUL. Some of the worst if not the worst marketing in the industry. Zoe Kravitz seriously LOL. NO JUST NO
No probably not but I actually prefer Longines over Omega. Modern Omega doesn't do a damn thing for me. I actually find Modern Omega unrecognizable from what they once were. The Swatch group ruined the brand
Can the tortoise catch the hare!? 😂
It can beat one in a race according to Aesop haha
Long story short no lol at least in America which is all I know
No.
Dear Omega, objects in your rearview are closer than they appear.
😋
This is what some people have said about Tudor vs Omega but the numbers say otherwise. 😅
Yeah and Tudor will surpass Rolex.
Absolute nonsense.
1st