It's an eternal dilemma: Not speaking the local / receiver's language can make you sound, or at least feel stupid. But at the same time no one really want's to force others into anything. It's even worse with the polyglots that may have landed on one of the handful of real Lingua Franca tongues, only to realize they don't work in this specific case.
@@Blagno4That requires some serious commitment though. Especially if you want to learn a new language in a timely matter, like say two years? Certainly not impossible but again that will require serious effort that not everyone will have the drive nor time for.
Two things 1) I love that IRyS and Flare have hit it off. Two of my oshi's having a blast is just great to see But 2) I totally see where Flare is coming from. But i do feel that most of the girls in EN are more then willing to talk in Japanese because they just want to have fun with the senpais that they may admire or want to be friends with. And if they don't know Japanese, it still doesn't seem to bother them for the most part now. Mumei is a great example of that to me. She finds ways to have fun with anyone (The Drawing collab with Stars and ID is a great example) and she and Towa have a pretty good friendship. It's all about finding that thing to connect with. For Flare and IRyS, Splatoon was the thing that connected them. I am sure Flare will find connections with other EN members in some form or fashion. So hopefully she doesn't stress to much about it
I think another part of Flare's whole "They're the ones who have to invite me" stance is due to a concern for the EN-talents viewers. If Flare approaches first she effectively decides that FOR the other person whether their chat will get to understand what is said or not. And I think she's uncomfortable with that. She hasn't mentioned it as reason explicitly, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's part of the equation. So, while the talents might be fine with it, there's more to consider... tricky stuff.
That is another tough part that can be tricky to navigate. Granted in a lot of en's cases outside of maybe Fauna or Mumei (Idk about advent since they've only just started). Most of the fans are either used to it or quite fine with it They look at it as, we get to see interactions we never thought we'd see. Add on we do get lucky with in chat translators. IRyS especially has a few nephamily who jump at the chance to show their skill xD
@@nuiguruminiclips i thought that too. she may be worried that the EN member needing to use JP might make their fans that don't understand JP feel left out it's a valid concern, i'm sure there are fans who feel that way
Towa-sama and Mumei collab always make my day. It's not much, and it's kinda hard for them to totally understand each other, but you can feel the passion. Can't help but smile.
A rare clip with Flare and on such an important topic In fact, on both sides there are many who are afraid to take the first step, they all need a little push, and the motivation to learn the language will appear and they will be able to get to know each other more Therefore, it’s good that there are extroverts who somehow end up here and there
The Japanese people really try to not inconvenience other people. This is quite charming and enjoyable when you're in public and most people are on their best behavior. However it also can stifle their social interactions. I feel like in case of JP branch collabing with EN branch, they really don't need to overthink it too much.
It stifles collabs in their own branch as without someone else butting in, you can see two people who want to hang out but won't due to shy/overpolite/etc
Man I'm really glad IRyS and Flare have been playing so much Splatoon together ever since 3 came out. If you couldn't tell, it's my favorite game, I have such a good time whenever anyone in holo plays it. I hope it connects even more members together, even across branches.
Well Biboo has just shown interest to talk with Flare about Splatoon and I'm sure there will be language barriers but maybe someone can act as a translator at first and then they'll gradually beat down that language barrier. If PekoMoon has taught me anything about language barriers, it's that when in doubt.. HEY MOONA! When there's a will, there's a way.
This is why I applaud the talents who try to squeeze in learning a secondary language despite their very busy schedules so they can communicate and hopefully collab with other branch members as a way of creating a bridge. It is no way easy at all considering how busy everyone is but surely if there's a will, there's a way.
Heck, if anything they have a certain advantage. With so many branches and so many multilingual members, some of which have actual teaching experience, immersion learning is an attractive option.
@@J.Crime123 There are but not everyone, they have lived long enough to survive without the need for English and adding it now during their busy schedules is pretty much a hassle.
@@J.Crime123 Subaru is the only one that has improved significantly while at Hololive, the rest of the English speakers already knew it before they joined. The truth is that there is no financial incentive for the girls to learn a second language. Trying to accommodate two languages for a stream is more likely to filter your original audience faster than it brings in new people. Even Haachama streams would be clearly labeled when it would be a primarily English stream vs Japanese stream.
Flare is such a sweetheart. I genuinely hope she gains courage to speak to more overseas members as I think many of them will be happy if she just talk to them or ask them out. As someone who use to work with people from various countries, most people are happy when you try to speak their language, some will even find it cute or exciting to teach you. Personally I think often the barrier is less of the language but the fear of offending the other party and feeling awkward for not knowing what is deemed to be acceptable and not as every country will have different culture and jokes.Once you learn to come to terms with feeling awkward and with halted communication usually it becomes easier to mix with people from various backgrounds.
The combinations Moona x Peko and Gura x Okayu/Shion are imo great examples how it's possible to enjoy each other's company while having a language gap. But I can see that not everyone feels comfortable like that. Hopefully an intermediate like Wawa or Irys or whoever will maybe one day join Flare and can tag along one of the EN girls that can't speak Japanese well.
I was a little surprised because when they met last year, they seemed to have a good time together, but there were no other interactions that we heard about afterwards. I know that IRyS is a very shy girl and I could understand why perhaps the expected closeness hadn't taken place, but now I'm very happy for them that they've grown closer and become real friends.
I hope she can push more EN friendship honestly. I still remember the low key promise with Kiara to visit her in Austria someday, something I really want to see because they bounce well together
IRySとJPメンバーの関係が深くなると、どうしても彼女は日本語での配信が多くなると思う。 ただ、これからIRySがHololiveでの活躍の場を増やすために必要なことなので、どうか海外ニキの皆さんは彼女を見守っていてほしい。 As the relationship between IRyS and JP members grows deeper, she will inevitably stream more and more in Nihongo. However, I think this is necessary for IRyS to increase her activities in the future, so I hope Kaigai-Nikis will wait and see her.
We know that IRyS has its majority fandom in Japan, we know who she is and for that reason we know that she would do better in HoloJP, I just hope that Cover stops hiring girls who can do better in HoloJP than in HoloEN... after all we got 2 more as IRyS in the new Gen.
oh flare don't worry about that, here in europe we have tons of languages and to speak to each other we always find a way. usualy it's english but even when i was a 11 years old kid i found a french friend in a online game where we where perfect as a team and we can comunicate somehow
It was a little sad that after Kiara and Flare hit it off so well during the time Kiara gave Flare an improptu tour of the EN Server that it only led to one more collab. They seemed to be talking a lot in their off-time as well but then suddenly we just stopped hearing about it. It happens but still was a bit sad to see that sort of peter out.
Sometimes, even when both parties want to make things last, life just doesn't line up to make it happen. Usually you end up running in to those peole every couple of years, you're both super happy to see each other, you do some catching up, and suddenly it's over. Rinse and repeat.
Good thing for both flare and irys is that both live in the same country, so making genuine friends who do stuff outside of streaming too on a regular basis is a lot easier(if they will it). Collabing with another branch member can be complicated if the first problem is the language barrier and then comes the long distance. You probably could make aquaintances with them but it might not be like a close friend you can hang out together with often and be intimate with...
That's super interesting because it has never even occured to me that Bae, Kiara or Ina or any other JP speaking EN members would even think about "being put out" speaking JP to JP members. I can imagine that members like Fauna or Mumei who speak a lot less JP might have reservations sometimes though, it does take a lot of effort to "Passion" your way though a language barrier.
I'm glad that Flare is connecting a bit more with the EN side, but I can definitely understand her reluctance to force EN members to speak JP because of how difficult it is - just as it's difficult for the JP talents to speak EN. It's definitely something of a Catch-22, but I don't doubt that many of the EN gals would love to collab with her and would be willing to work on their JP as a result. I do hope, though, that Flare uses this desire as her motivation to learn EN as well; relationships are two-way streets, and communicating is a vital aspect.
If you can't do a direct invite make an indirect one, instead of 'want do do this together' say 'i will do this you can join if you want'. Also if someone takes the time to learn a language they are probably happy to have a chance to use it.
I think one of the big things that can help when wanting to initiate a collab is to offer for them to invite someone also. I know that is something Selen Tatsuki did when she was inviting JP players to join her to play Apex with and it can help a lot as if someone isn't confident in their other language skills they can have someone with them that is more confident and I'm sure would reduce the stress a lot on the invitee a lot.
aw.. i want to be her friend.. im sure irys doesn't feel forced to speak japanese with flare tho, since irys is japanese and all that :D hope they get closer~
It's understandable that anyone would feel nervous of feeling like they're stepping on another member's toes by being unable to speak their native langauge, but ultimately, pretty much any member won't mind and will be okay with passion language.
Thanks again! I bet for most EN/ID members they won't think they are being "forced" to do anything but I can understand the cultural difference. Though I do feel Flare talks about more complex topics then others so if it were me I would be worried if I can keep up. Personally, I think if she put out an short English message that she wanted to be invited to collab she would catch a lot of fish. Anyways, thanks for clipping
I think it would depend on the member and their mood at the time. For someone like Bae, Anya, Iofi or Irys who are effectively JP fluent, you're definitely right, but for someone like Fauna or Bijou or Mumei who have limited JP abilities, it does take a lot of mental effort to deal with that in a one-on-one collab, especially combined with the normal stress of dealing with a new person. They're willing to do it sometimes for sure, but it's a pretty big thing to ask of someone so I understand why she's hesitant.
@@Paul-bs5wl maybe Fauna but Mumei had already shown she is OK with cross collabs and Bijou exudes Kobo vibes where she could have fun with anyone. Gura and Ina - despite her proficiency- are the only ones I see rejecting people. Anyways, the whole point is to flip the script. FLARE wants people to invite her to things AND does not want to pressure people. I think that EN members would enjoy the call out
Man, friendship is hard... I barely have any friends ever since elementary school, so when I watch this clips, i'm so shocked.... It feels like i know the meaning each word she's speaking, but I don't understand why she do/said that.😂
I would feel much worse approaching my senior at work, who lives on the other side of the planet, asking her to accept I only know a little Japanese, when I know she knows *zero* English. If she asks someone with a small amount of Japanese knowledge to collab, that person at least has a starting off point... and is not asking someone who has been doing this for 3-4 years to suddenly do things the new girl's way. Also, Fuwamoco, Ina, Cali, and Bae are all, for all intents and purposes fluent in Japanese (as far as collabs are concerned), Kronii has been working on it a lot, so have Gura, Ame and I am sure all the other ones have been working, even if it is not as much talked about as with those I mentioned.
It's simple for Fu-tan. She can always push forward and contact first with japanese speaking EN members like IRyS, Bae, Kiara or Calli. Since they are nihongo jouzu any collabs with them will be good, and if they refuse it will be other than language reason. As for other EN members 1 on 1 collab can be really awkward because of language barrier. But for this situations she need a link character, person who can speak both, at least on good enough level to make a proper conversations. This person can translate for both sides and it can be also good collab. From EN side it is japanese speakers mentioned before, so Flare can going like Flare/Bae/Mumei collab for example. Or it can be JP members who can speak english pretty fluent, I doesn't know much but it can be Lui. Like Flare/Lui/Gura composition. Unfortunately Miko knows only elite english and can't help with translations xD Interesting situation with ID members, they all know english. So EN members can collab with them easily, but they also know japanese a lot. Because for JP and EN members learning indonesian is too much, I guess all ID members can know at least 2 languages on fluent level, their own indonesian and english + japanese on good level. So ID members can also help Flare a lot with collabs with EN as link characters. And yes, Flare can collab with some ID members 1 on 1 freely because their japanese is pretty good. For example Anya is literally JP member, but JP members still rarely collabing with her, and her english is very good too.
I"m glad Flare is getting closer to Irys but she doesn't have to limit herself to only Irys. The other ENs like because asked by JP senpai for a stream even if it will be in Japanese.
On the contrary, people I know who are LEARNING a 2nd or 3rd language really appreciate it when they're put into situations where they HAVE to use it. I'm not sure how people who GREW UP bilingual feel about having to use the language they're not as strong with though.
well, if you're actually bilingual, then it's really not a problem to use either language, to the point that they can do this thing called "code switching", where they can start talking a second language mid-sentence. So yeah, unless the person doesn't want to learn the second language or literally knows just half a dozen words, they will appreciate the opportunity to train
Code-switching is weird, but cool. It's like you're just pulling from a library of terms, phrases, even sentence structures, with little regard for which language they're from, so long as you think the other person also understands them. And understanding is easier than speaking, anyway. As someone who speaks a few languages, I'm more annoyed at my inability than casual situations where I have to use one of my weaker languages. I appreciate the challenge, but some things, like doctor's visits, I still much prefer to do in one of my stronger languages, native preferably. The nuance is necessary sometimes. Having to adapt to a new friend is a fun challenge. Having to describe symptoms without the vocabulary isn't.
@@oscarnemo8084 Hear, hear. Stuff that is _really_ important (taxes, doctors) having to use weak language is frustrating, but everyday stuff, playing games together is fine.
gosh, flare is such a turbo-introvert, i hate it, because it reminds me of myself, lol i at least kinda learned to be pushy when needed here or there over the years, because i realized most people will have at worst a neutral feeling when reminded about something/asked again about something via chat message.
I know for sure Kiara, Ina, Calli and Bae would love to collab and they can all speak jp. Fuwamoco too and even Shiorin and Rissa can get by on passion English/Japanese. And let's not forget most of the id girls. I hope Flare is aware of this, we'd love to see more of her 🧡. Also i think boldness over politeness works best in holo....bae got closer to suisei by randomly calling her when she and council were offcollabing with subaru and now she went on a date with whole StartEnd😂
Learning to speak & understand Japanese is reasonable in difficulty. Learning to read hiragana, katanaka & kanji? fkk that. For this reason I don't blame EN HoloMem that haven't learned JP.
I think a lot of eople understimate how exiting it is for someone who knows a second (or third language) to be able to use it with a native speaker, we (and say we because english it's my second language) learn the language for that, use it and interact with more people.
That's true once you reach a certain level of proficiency where you know productive communication is possible (Someone like Ina or Bae or Irys for sure) but if you are very limited in what you can say, it can be super stressful to be put in that situation if you're not up for it.
All in all, I've always thought that both the JP and non-JP talents should try to bridge the gap more by learning a bit of the other language to make interactions not so odd. Subaru is a prime example on the JP side - she hit the books over the past year and can now hold a lengthy conversation in English. Someone like Gura (and other ENs besides Kiara, Calli, and IRyS since they knew Japanese before Hololive) is the opposite side - she's learned a fair amount of Japanese, and is still learning, for the same reason. I think it would behoove everyone in the company to reach out a bit in that regard and try a little harder to bridge the gap. I also think we, as fans, should do the same. I'm by no means fluent in Japanese but I've been very slowly learning some over the past years and can "bridge the gap" with some JP fans, and a lot of them will return the courtesy in English if they're able. These kinds of things do wonders to strengthen the community, and the talents doing so would also strengthen their bonds as well.
All EN members have a far superior understanding of JP than an average native of whatever country they're from. I couldn't say with any certainty who the weakest JP speaker in EN is, but even someone like Fauna who rarely speaks JP knows enough to get by living there for a while. This is because all of them work for a JP company (and most are weebs) and they have obvious reasons to learn JP. On the other hand a lot of the JP members know very little English, and none of them are fluent. Lui knows very basic conversational English and Subaru has made her way up with great effort to being able to communicate the simple stuff, but that's about as far as it goes for speaking. Some like Aki and Towa are pretty good at comprehension, but not great at speaking. I don't blame the JP branch for this, there really isn't all that much incentive for them to speak EN if they don't personally want to do it (like Subaru) for their own reasons. Learning a language is a big time investment, and these are busy people.
I’m pretty sure EN members who speak Japanese fluently are more than happy to speak Japanese with JP members. In fact not letting them speaks could make them feel left out.
As others may have pointed out already seems like EN members feel same way about forcing JP members speaking English. A stalemate but I am sure enough interaction between them will make this less a issue
Of course, it's a bit different inside the vtuber world than outside. Outside, there is an expectation to learn English because it is *the* global language. But inside the vtuber sphere, well, half of it is Japanese all by itself, so people learning Japanese and using that as a lingua franca is not *that* outlandish and hence maybe not too demanding...
not being able to speak english is a general disadvantage, nearly every nation speaks at least english as second language, some more successful than others....
Really excellent translations. I think burden is on the EN girls to establish and maintain connections (and this is fine). Although to begin with Vtuber's are naturally going to be more introverted so most of the girls have a certain degree of social anxiety, but from a cultural and language perspective the EN girls are in a position to say things more directly and be understood. Where as the case with the JP girls--not only are they naturally introverted but 察する (note - sassuru: being understood without explicitly needing say things directly, or at all) is also going to add an additional barrier from establishing any kind of connection. Stream discussions like these are about as directly as it will ever get between them.
Here's the thing though... it goes both ways. For starters, I'm sure the EN girls who would be willing to collab would be happy to test their Japanese or otherwise try and find other ways to communicate. So I don't think that's even a concern. As for fans, that's really a moot point. Flare could initiate an interaction and yeah, maybe it does force that person into that interaction... but it works the other way as well. One of the EN girls can initiate with Flare and force Flare into the interaction. Regardless of who does what, the exact same thing happens. If Flare is okay with an EN member reaching out and asking to interact, then it's not really fair to say that the EN members couldn't happen to feel the same way.
For a long time I have felt like the JP branch has been too lazy, I always see far more progress from the EN and ID branches on learning Japanese than the JP learning English, the fact A-chan is the one with the most English skill among the whole JP branch should be embarrassing to the members.
I cant say its 60% is more like 30% but is very noticeable that she really is more a Japanese member, also we have 3 more girls that are like this (Bae and Fuwamoco)
@@SuperVincent0000 It varies, in a recent stream she'd just come back from the studio and was clearly still in Japan mode cus it was pretty rough. I know she has Japanese fans too.
Hololive is a japanese company, 80% of Hololive content is in japanese with strong japanese/otaku culture themes. All Hololive members should be able to speak japanese, and we as fans and audience should make at least a little effort to understand it. EN members speaking japanese constantly is good practice. Also, I can understand what Flare says about approaching a new friendship step by step. Sometimes we get exited because we meet someone with the same interests, but we should remember we just met the person, there's a lot more to take into consideration.
Speaking as an English-only fan, I'd rather the EN talents learns Japanese and speak that than the other way around. What makes Hololive great, is that it is a Japanese company that creates Japanese entertainment. It simply isn't possible for the English-speaking world to produce something like Hololive/Holostars. Just compare it to something like VShojo (not trying to say anything bad about VShojo), and you can see just how different they are. Totally different mindset and values. Frankly, I don't want Cover to become contaminated by Western thought-processes and practices in the creation of content; something like that would be the death of Hololive. Perhaps worse. . . the Japanese talents, to a certain degree, are protected by their inability to speak English. To be blunt, there are _a lot_ of assholes on the EN side who are serious, serious antis, who make Japanese antis look like sane, rational people. It's so bad that when native Japanese encounter these people and actually realize what they're saying, they're stunned, they don't know how to react, because they couldn't even imagine somebody being _that_ unhinged before that encounter. I'm sure everyone here knows who I'm talking about too; they're the communists, the gender-mafia, and the wackos who make election cycles their entire lives and reason for existing. Those people, typically, do not speak Japanese, and so long as the JP talents (and Cover staff) remain on _that_ side of the language barrier, they're shielded from that bullshit. It doesn't mean I don't think they should be able to improve themselves in whatever ways they want, including speaking English, doesn't mean I don't want them to be able to better interact with the EN branch as a way to return that consideration of the EN branch speaking in Japanese, or anything like that; I just think that them learning English creates a vector for the taint of the West and the horrific vitriol of the worst of our population to worm its way into the everyday lives of our favorite talents. Just imagine the Chinese situation, only make it a thousand times worse.
I respect JP's talents but I wish they would invest a little more in their knowledge of the English language. They have already talked about being busy, but they are literally a couple of hours from the office, for them this busyness is less than for any person who works standard hours. It's not difficult to find an hour a day...
It's because they're are near the office that they are so busy. Meetings, dance lessons, singing lessons, recordings, streaming, sponsorship stuff, merchandise stuff. Chloe talked about how her schedule has been planned well over a month in advance. Tamaki talked about how hard it is to invite holomems over to their stream because their schedule is too packed in fit him in.
![Flare & Subaru's High Energy Chitchat Explodes into Laughter [Shiranui Flare/不知火フレア]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0XGtGV-vess/mqdefault.jpg)
![Flare & Subaru's High Energy Chitchat Explodes into Laughter [Shiranui Flare/不知火フレア]](/img/tr.png)
![Flare・IRyS・Aki are Truly addicted! Hectic Trizooka Splatoon Challenges! [Shiranui Flare/不知火フレア]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WATuh43UeCk/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why did NoeFure collabs become so rare? [Shiranui Flare/不知火フレア]](/img/n.gif)
Flare is so precious, hope she can become friends with more EN, there are many who speak English who i'm sure they would love to get know her too.
All she has to do is ask. Remember many of the EN girls are very shy and introverted so they have a hard time making the first move
i want kiara and flare to do collabs, they had a lot of synergy together
@@conspiracyspidershe knows but she says that she prefers not to because she doesn't feel ok with it because she doesn't speak English
And the non-nihongo-jouzu EN members are uncomfortable with forcing JPs to speak English.
What a stalemate.
The irony is both sides would improve their language ability by communicating even with the difficulties.
I think Polka is one of the few that's capable of interacting with the EN members despite the language barrier.
It's an eternal dilemma:
Not speaking the local / receiver's language can make you sound, or at least feel stupid.
But at the same time no one really want's to force others into anything.
It's even worse with the polyglots that may have landed on one of the handful of real Lingua Franca tongues, only to realize they don't work in this specific case.
There is no stalemate, literally just learn the language
@@Blagno4That requires some serious commitment though. Especially if you want to learn a new language in a timely matter, like say two years? Certainly not impossible but again that will require serious effort that not everyone will have the drive nor time for.
Iroha gets called yagoos last hope but Flare is so fucking wholesome i remeber her saying she hates lying to people so she wont join among us collabs
（＾ω＾）
i think Iroha getting called Yagoos last hope is cause she is prob most Seiso out of them. I mean we all know how the other members are xD
Two things
1) I love that IRyS and Flare have hit it off. Two of my oshi's having a blast is just great to see
But 2) I totally see where Flare is coming from. But i do feel that most of the girls in EN are more then willing to talk in Japanese because they just want to have fun with the senpais that they may admire or want to be friends with.
And if they don't know Japanese, it still doesn't seem to bother them for the most part now. Mumei is a great example of that to me. She finds ways to have fun with anyone (The Drawing collab with Stars and ID is a great example) and she and Towa have a pretty good friendship.
It's all about finding that thing to connect with. For Flare and IRyS, Splatoon was the thing that connected them. I am sure Flare will find connections with other EN members in some form or fashion. So hopefully she doesn't stress to much about it
I think another part of Flare's whole "They're the ones who have to invite me" stance is due to a concern for the EN-talents viewers. If Flare approaches first she effectively decides that FOR the other person whether their chat will get to understand what is said or not. And I think she's uncomfortable with that.
She hasn't mentioned it as reason explicitly, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's part of the equation.
So, while the talents might be fine with it, there's more to consider... tricky stuff.
That is another tough part that can be tricky to navigate.
Granted in a lot of en's cases outside of maybe Fauna or Mumei (Idk about advent since they've only just started). Most of the fans are either used to it or quite fine with it
They look at it as, we get to see interactions we never thought we'd see. Add on we do get lucky with in chat translators. IRyS especially has a few nephamily who jump at the chance to show their skill xD
@@nuiguruminiclips i thought that too. she may be worried that the EN member needing to use JP might make their fans that don't understand JP feel left out
it's a valid concern, i'm sure there are fans who feel that way
Towa-sama and Mumei collab always make my day. It's not much, and it's kinda hard for them to totally understand each other, but you can feel the passion. Can't help but smile.
I'm very happy they've become good friends. Flare is a very thoughtful person
She is very considerate. This makes me worry we'll not get more Flare and Ina collabs tho. They both are like this.
Very cute. IRyS always refers to Flare as Fuu-tan and has even mentioned how Flare has banned her from calling her senpai.
All the people close to her call her Fuu-tan like Watame
@holow3038 Even the collab with Choco-sen did Flare wanted her to call he Fuu-tan too
A rare clip with Flare and on such an important topic
In fact, on both sides there are many who are afraid to take the first step, they all need a little push, and the motivation to learn the language will appear and they will be able to get to know each other more
Therefore, it’s good that there are extroverts who somehow end up here and there
The Japanese people really try to not inconvenience other people. This is quite charming and enjoyable when you're in public and most people are on their best behavior. However it also can stifle their social interactions. I feel like in case of JP branch collabing with EN branch, they really don't need to overthink it too much.
It stifles collabs in their own branch as without someone else butting in, you can see two people who want to hang out but won't due to shy/overpolite/etc
Man I'm really glad IRyS and Flare have been playing so much Splatoon together ever since 3 came out. If you couldn't tell, it's my favorite game, I have such a good time whenever anyone in holo plays it. I hope it connects even more members together, even across branches.
Well Biboo has just shown interest to talk with Flare about Splatoon and I'm sure there will be language barriers but maybe someone can act as a translator at first and then they'll gradually beat down that language barrier. If PekoMoon has taught me anything about language barriers, it's that when in doubt.. HEY MOONA! When there's a will, there's a way.
God, I actually relate to this too damn much.
Flare just spoke my mind.
This is why I applaud the talents who try to squeeze in learning a secondary language despite their very busy schedules so they can communicate and hopefully collab with other branch members as a way of creating a bridge. It is no way easy at all considering how busy everyone is but surely if there's a will, there's a way.
Heck, if anything they have a certain advantage. With so many branches and so many multilingual members, some of which have actual teaching experience, immersion learning is an attractive option.
But lets be honest. It is purely EN and ID who learn other languages.
Don't see any effort from the JP side of things.
@@J.Crime123 There are but not everyone, they have lived long enough to survive without the need for English and adding it now during their busy schedules is pretty much a hassle.
@@J.Crime123 Subaru is the only one that has improved significantly while at Hololive, the rest of the English speakers already knew it before they joined.
The truth is that there is no financial incentive for the girls to learn a second language. Trying to accommodate two languages for a stream is more likely to filter your original audience faster than it brings in new people. Even Haachama streams would be clearly labeled when it would be a primarily English stream vs Japanese stream.
Flare is such a sweetheart. I genuinely hope she gains courage to speak to more overseas members as I think many of them will be happy if she just talk to them or ask them out.
As someone who use to work with people from various countries, most people are happy when you try to speak their language, some will even find it cute or exciting to teach you.
Personally I think often the barrier is less of the language but the fear of offending the other party and feeling awkward for not knowing what is deemed to be acceptable and not as every country will have different culture and jokes.Once you learn to come to terms with feeling awkward and with halted communication usually it becomes easier to mix with people from various backgrounds.
The combinations Moona x Peko and Gura x Okayu/Shion are imo great examples how it's possible to enjoy each other's company while having a language gap. But I can see that not everyone feels comfortable like that. Hopefully an intermediate like Wawa or Irys or whoever will maybe one day join Flare and can tag along one of the EN girls that can't speak Japanese well.
Splatoon brainrot bringing people together... You love to see it.
I was a little surprised because when they met last year, they seemed to have a good time together, but there were no other interactions that we heard about afterwards. I know that IRyS is a very shy girl and I could understand why perhaps the expected closeness hadn't taken place, but now I'm very happy for them that they've grown closer and become real friends.
Thank you for translating this!
Watching stuff like this warms my heart ❤❤
pointy eared tomodachi, nice to know how well they get along, cause we usually only hear about IRyS hanging out with Cali in Japan
Always thought that Flare abd IRyS would hit it off and I should have expected that it was because of Splatoon
When it comes to learning any language, immersion is key.
I hope she can push more EN friendship honestly.
I still remember the low key promise with Kiara to visit her in Austria someday, something I really want to see because they bounce well together
IRySとJPメンバーの関係が深くなると、どうしても彼女は日本語での配信が多くなると思う。
ただ、これからIRySがHololiveでの活躍の場を増やすために必要なことなので、どうか海外ニキの皆さんは彼女を見守っていてほしい。
As the relationship between IRyS and JP members grows deeper, she will inevitably stream more and more in Nihongo.
However, I think this is necessary for IRyS to increase her activities in the future, so I hope Kaigai-Nikis will wait and see her.
We know that IRyS has its majority fandom in Japan, we know who she is and for that reason we know that she would do better in HoloJP, I just hope that Cover stops hiring girls who can do better in HoloJP than in HoloEN... after all we got 2 more as IRyS in the new Gen.
oh flare don't worry about that, here in europe we have tons of languages and to speak to each other we always find a way. usualy it's english but even when i was a 11 years old kid i found a french friend in a online game where we where perfect as a team and we can comunicate somehow
It was a little sad that after Kiara and Flare hit it off so well during the time Kiara gave Flare an improptu tour of the EN Server that it only led to one more collab. They seemed to be talking a lot in their off-time as well but then suddenly we just stopped hearing about it. It happens but still was a bit sad to see that sort of peter out.
Doesn't help they live quite a distance apart with their own official units
Sometimes, even when both parties want to make things last, life just doesn't line up to make it happen. Usually you end up running in to those peole every couple of years, you're both super happy to see each other, you do some catching up, and suddenly it's over. Rinse and repeat.
Having busy schedule and 8 hours difference timezone makes hard for everyone to remain in contact
Good thing for both flare and irys is that both live in the same country, so making genuine friends who do stuff outside of streaming too on a regular basis is a lot easier(if they will it).
Collabing with another branch member can be complicated if the first problem is the language barrier and then comes the long distance. You probably could make aquaintances with them but it might not be like a close friend you can hang out together with often and be intimate with...
2:11 For science
Flare is the embodiment of "Komi-san can't communicate", I am glad she has achieved this small victory with IRyS though.
That's super interesting because it has never even occured to me that Bae, Kiara or Ina or any other JP speaking EN members would even think about "being put out" speaking JP to JP members. I can imagine that members like Fauna or Mumei who speak a lot less JP might have reservations sometimes though, it does take a lot of effort to "Passion" your way though a language barrier.
nice Flare clip
Really wish life was like UMISEA where both sides could speak in their native language and the message is still communicated
Let's hopes she finds out that the little rock wants to be noticed by her
Thing is the girls will never feel like they "have to", they genuinely want to speak Japanese cause they like it.
I'm glad that Flare is connecting a bit more with the EN side, but I can definitely understand her reluctance to force EN members to speak JP because of how difficult it is - just as it's difficult for the JP talents to speak EN. It's definitely something of a Catch-22, but I don't doubt that many of the EN gals would love to collab with her and would be willing to work on their JP as a result. I do hope, though, that Flare uses this desire as her motivation to learn EN as well; relationships are two-way streets, and communicating is a vital aspect.
If you can't do a direct invite make an indirect one, instead of 'want do do this together' say 'i will do this you can join if you want'.
Also if someone takes the time to learn a language they are probably happy to have a chance to use it.
As always, bless you for allowing me to follow Flare despite my lack of JP proficiency.
I think one of the big things that can help when wanting to initiate a collab is to offer for them to invite someone also. I know that is something Selen Tatsuki did when she was inviting JP players to join her to play Apex with and it can help a lot as if someone isn't confident in their other language skills they can have someone with them that is more confident and I'm sure would reduce the stress a lot on the invitee a lot.
2:39 "For socially confident types!"
Like Sui-chan?
It still doesn't hurt for Flare to try learning a new language when her interest in German culture has been brought up in her holotalk interview
aw.. i want to be her friend..
im sure irys doesn't feel forced to speak japanese with flare tho, since irys is japanese and all that :D hope they get closer~
It's understandable that anyone would feel nervous of feeling like they're stepping on another member's toes by being unable to speak their native langauge, but ultimately, pretty much any member won't mind and will be okay with passion language.
Thanks again! I bet for most EN/ID members they won't think they are being "forced" to do anything but I can understand the cultural difference. Though I do feel Flare talks about more complex topics then others so if it were me I would be worried if I can keep up. Personally, I think if she put out an short English message that she wanted to be invited to collab she would catch a lot of fish.
Anyways, thanks for clipping
I think it would depend on the member and their mood at the time. For someone like Bae, Anya, Iofi or Irys who are effectively JP fluent, you're definitely right, but for someone like Fauna or Bijou or Mumei who have limited JP abilities, it does take a lot of mental effort to deal with that in a one-on-one collab, especially combined with the normal stress of dealing with a new person. They're willing to do it sometimes for sure, but it's a pretty big thing to ask of someone so I understand why she's hesitant.
@@Paul-bs5wl maybe Fauna but Mumei had already shown she is OK with cross collabs and Bijou exudes Kobo vibes where she could have fun with anyone. Gura and Ina - despite her proficiency- are the only ones I see rejecting people.
Anyways, the whole point is to flip the script. FLARE wants people to invite her to things AND does not want to pressure people. I think that EN members would enjoy the call out
Man, friendship is hard...
I barely have any friends ever since elementary school, so when I watch this clips, i'm so shocked....
It feels like i know the meaning each word she's speaking, but I don't understand why she do/said that.😂
Yabairys wants the elven cake!
Irys is in good hands
A bit of a shame that Flare and wawa never got beyond the uncommitted '"let's collab again" stage.
2 introverts gg
I would feel much worse approaching my senior at work, who lives on the other side of the planet, asking her to accept I only know a little Japanese, when I know she knows *zero* English. If she asks someone with a small amount of Japanese knowledge to collab, that person at least has a starting off point... and is not asking someone who has been doing this for 3-4 years to suddenly do things the new girl's way.
Also, Fuwamoco, Ina, Cali, and Bae are all, for all intents and purposes fluent in Japanese (as far as collabs are concerned), Kronii has been working on it a lot, so have Gura, Ame and I am sure all the other ones have been working, even if it is not as much talked about as with those I mentioned.
It's simple for Fu-tan. She can always push forward and contact first with japanese speaking EN members like IRyS, Bae, Kiara or Calli. Since they are nihongo jouzu any collabs with them will be good, and if they refuse it will be other than language reason. As for other EN members 1 on 1 collab can be really awkward because of language barrier. But for this situations she need a link character, person who can speak both, at least on good enough level to make a proper conversations. This person can translate for both sides and it can be also good collab. From EN side it is japanese speakers mentioned before, so Flare can going like Flare/Bae/Mumei collab for example. Or it can be JP members who can speak english pretty fluent, I doesn't know much but it can be Lui. Like Flare/Lui/Gura composition. Unfortunately Miko knows only elite english and can't help with translations xD
Interesting situation with ID members, they all know english. So EN members can collab with them easily, but they also know japanese a lot. Because for JP and EN members learning indonesian is too much, I guess all ID members can know at least 2 languages on fluent level, their own indonesian and english + japanese on good level. So ID members can also help Flare a lot with collabs with EN as link characters. And yes, Flare can collab with some ID members 1 on 1 freely because their japanese is pretty good. For example Anya is literally JP member, but JP members still rarely collabing with her, and her english is very good too.
I"m glad Flare is getting closer to Irys but she doesn't have to limit herself to only Irys. The other ENs like because asked by JP senpai for a stream even if it will be in Japanese.
On the contrary, people I know who are LEARNING a 2nd or 3rd language really appreciate it when they're put into situations where they HAVE to use it. I'm not sure how people who GREW UP bilingual feel about having to use the language they're not as strong with though.
well, if you're actually bilingual, then it's really not a problem to use either language, to the point that they can do this thing called "code switching", where they can start talking a second language mid-sentence.
So yeah, unless the person doesn't want to learn the second language or literally knows just half a dozen words, they will appreciate the opportunity to train
@@666Tomato666is that what it's called "code switching"?
Code-switching is weird, but cool. It's like you're just pulling from a library of terms, phrases, even sentence structures, with little regard for which language they're from, so long as you think the other person also understands them. And understanding is easier than speaking, anyway.
As someone who speaks a few languages, I'm more annoyed at my inability than casual situations where I have to use one of my weaker languages. I appreciate the challenge, but some things, like doctor's visits, I still much prefer to do in one of my stronger languages, native preferably. The nuance is necessary sometimes. Having to adapt to a new friend is a fun challenge. Having to describe symptoms without the vocabulary isn't.
@@cuttlefish6839 code switching also happens when you change the way you talk with your family, friends and colleagues.
@@oscarnemo8084 Hear, hear. Stuff that is _really_ important (taxes, doctors) having to use weak language is frustrating, but everyday stuff, playing games together is fine.
gosh, flare is such a turbo-introvert, i hate it, because it reminds me of myself, lol
i at least kinda learned to be pushy when needed here or there over the years, because i realized most people will have at worst a neutral feeling when reminded about something/asked again about something via chat message.
I know for sure Kiara, Ina, Calli and Bae would love to collab and they can all speak jp. Fuwamoco too and even Shiorin and Rissa can get by on passion English/Japanese. And let's not forget most of the id girls. I hope Flare is aware of this, we'd love to see more of her 🧡. Also i think boldness over politeness works best in holo....bae got closer to suisei by randomly calling her when she and council were offcollabing with subaru and now she went on a date with whole StartEnd😂
Learning to speak & understand Japanese is reasonable in difficulty.
Learning to read hiragana, katanaka & kanji? fkk that. For this reason I don't blame EN HoloMem that haven't learned JP.
makes sense
I think a lot of eople understimate how exiting it is for someone who knows a second (or third language) to be able to use it with a native speaker, we (and say we because english it's my second language) learn the language for that, use it and interact with more people.
That's true once you reach a certain level of proficiency where you know productive communication is possible (Someone like Ina or Bae or Irys for sure) but if you are very limited in what you can say, it can be super stressful to be put in that situation if you're not up for it.
All in all, I've always thought that both the JP and non-JP talents should try to bridge the gap more by learning a bit of the other language to make interactions not so odd. Subaru is a prime example on the JP side - she hit the books over the past year and can now hold a lengthy conversation in English. Someone like Gura (and other ENs besides Kiara, Calli, and IRyS since they knew Japanese before Hololive) is the opposite side - she's learned a fair amount of Japanese, and is still learning, for the same reason. I think it would behoove everyone in the company to reach out a bit in that regard and try a little harder to bridge the gap.
I also think we, as fans, should do the same. I'm by no means fluent in Japanese but I've been very slowly learning some over the past years and can "bridge the gap" with some JP fans, and a lot of them will return the courtesy in English if they're able. These kinds of things do wonders to strengthen the community, and the talents doing so would also strengthen their bonds as well.
All EN members have a far superior understanding of JP than an average native of whatever country they're from. I couldn't say with any certainty who the weakest JP speaker in EN is, but even someone like Fauna who rarely speaks JP knows enough to get by living there for a while. This is because all of them work for a JP company (and most are weebs) and they have obvious reasons to learn JP. On the other hand a lot of the JP members know very little English, and none of them are fluent. Lui knows very basic conversational English and Subaru has made her way up with great effort to being able to communicate the simple stuff, but that's about as far as it goes for speaking. Some like Aki and Towa are pretty good at comprehension, but not great at speaking.
I don't blame the JP branch for this, there really isn't all that much incentive for them to speak EN if they don't personally want to do it (like Subaru) for their own reasons. Learning a language is a big time investment, and these are busy people.
I’m pretty sure EN members who speak Japanese fluently are more than happy to speak Japanese with JP members. In fact not letting them speaks could make them feel left out.
As others may have pointed out already seems like EN members feel same way about forcing JP members speaking English. A stalemate but I am sure enough interaction between them will make this less a issue
flareeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Of course, it's a bit different inside the vtuber world than outside. Outside, there is an expectation to learn English because it is *the* global language. But inside the vtuber sphere, well, half of it is Japanese all by itself, so people learning Japanese and using that as a lingua franca is not *that* outlandish and hence maybe not too demanding...
What's on the chair behind her?
not being able to speak english is a general disadvantage, nearly every nation speaks at least english as second language, some more successful than others....
All of this could be solved if someone who would take charge like Kiara or Bae live in Japan. All the girls living in Japan are way too shy.
Really excellent translations. I think burden is on the EN girls to establish and maintain connections (and this is fine). Although to begin with Vtuber's are naturally going to be more introverted so most of the girls have a certain degree of social anxiety, but from a cultural and language perspective the EN girls are in a position to say things more directly and be understood. Where as the case with the JP girls--not only are they naturally introverted but 察する (note - sassuru: being understood without explicitly needing say things directly, or at all) is also going to add an additional barrier from establishing any kind of connection. Stream discussions like these are about as directly as it will ever get between them.
HoloEN has a considerable number of shy and/or introverted girls; perhaps as a result of what JP set trend wise.
Sasuga irys Hololive JP member.
Here's the thing though... it goes both ways.
For starters, I'm sure the EN girls who would be willing to collab would be happy to test their Japanese or otherwise try and find other ways to communicate. So I don't think that's even a concern.
As for fans, that's really a moot point. Flare could initiate an interaction and yeah, maybe it does force that person into that interaction... but it works the other way as well. One of the EN girls can initiate with Flare and force Flare into the interaction. Regardless of who does what, the exact same thing happens.
If Flare is okay with an EN member reaching out and asking to interact, then it's not really fair to say that the EN members couldn't happen to feel the same way.
Meanwhile, the rat & the knight, eyes aglow, shake hands...
Rat: Villain arc??
Knight: **nods** Villain arc!
It's cute to know that one of the members most known for being cool is as awkward and overly self-conscious as many of us
That's been rather discarded as she didn't want to be seen as such in the first place
That was 2019 Flare
2023 Flare is a dork
2023 Flare my beloved
@@Paul-bs5wl 2023 Flare is cute
Flare was always cute
For a long time I have felt like the JP branch has been too lazy, I always see far more progress from the EN and ID branches on learning Japanese than the JP learning English, the fact A-chan is the one with the most English skill among the whole JP branch should be embarrassing to the members.
Well you know... in another timeline IRyS would just be a Japanese member, she spends 60% of her streams speaking Japanese anyway.
I cant say its 60% is more like 30% but is very noticeable that she really is more a Japanese member, also we have 3 more girls that are like this (Bae and Fuwamoco)
@@SuperVincent0000 It varies, in a recent stream she'd just come back from the studio and was clearly still in Japan mode cus it was pretty rough.
I know she has Japanese fans too.
@@cikameBae is getting into this too...
Hololive is a japanese company, 80% of Hololive content is in japanese with strong japanese/otaku culture themes. All Hololive members should be able to speak japanese, and we as fans and audience should make at least a little effort to understand it. EN members speaking japanese constantly is good practice.
Also, I can understand what Flare says about approaching a new friendship step by step. Sometimes we get exited because we meet someone with the same interests, but we should remember we just met the person, there's a lot more to take into consideration.
Speaking as an English-only fan, I'd rather the EN talents learns Japanese and speak that than the other way around. What makes Hololive great, is that it is a Japanese company that creates Japanese entertainment. It simply isn't possible for the English-speaking world to produce something like Hololive/Holostars. Just compare it to something like VShojo (not trying to say anything bad about VShojo), and you can see just how different they are. Totally different mindset and values. Frankly, I don't want Cover to become contaminated by Western thought-processes and practices in the creation of content; something like that would be the death of Hololive.
Perhaps worse. . . the Japanese talents, to a certain degree, are protected by their inability to speak English. To be blunt, there are _a lot_ of assholes on the EN side who are serious, serious antis, who make Japanese antis look like sane, rational people. It's so bad that when native Japanese encounter these people and actually realize what they're saying, they're stunned, they don't know how to react, because they couldn't even imagine somebody being _that_ unhinged before that encounter. I'm sure everyone here knows who I'm talking about too; they're the communists, the gender-mafia, and the wackos who make election cycles their entire lives and reason for existing. Those people, typically, do not speak Japanese, and so long as the JP talents (and Cover staff) remain on _that_ side of the language barrier, they're shielded from that bullshit.
It doesn't mean I don't think they should be able to improve themselves in whatever ways they want, including speaking English, doesn't mean I don't want them to be able to better interact with the EN branch as a way to return that consideration of the EN branch speaking in Japanese, or anything like that; I just think that them learning English creates a vector for the taint of the West and the horrific vitriol of the worst of our population to worm its way into the everyday lives of our favorite talents. Just imagine the Chinese situation, only make it a thousand times worse.
Worries, but still won't put in the effort. Business as usual.
I respect JP's talents but I wish they would invest a little more in their knowledge of the English language. They have already talked about being busy, but they are literally a couple of hours from the office, for them this busyness is less than for any person who works standard hours. It's not difficult to find an hour a day...
It's because they're are near the office that they are so busy. Meetings, dance lessons, singing lessons, recordings, streaming, sponsorship stuff, merchandise stuff. Chloe talked about how her schedule has been planned well over a month in advance.
Tamaki talked about how hard it is to invite holomems over to their stream because their schedule is too packed in fit him in.
Remember when Pekora and Moona used to break the language barrier? Yeah, good times.