Amber said: "We need to be more cold-blooded. It should be: This person is on our side but can't do anything for us. This person will never be on our side but if we have enough power they will work for us anyway". Words to live by.
I love you guys and I know you don't agree with each other all the time but whether you'll think something is worth caring about or not seems sometimes totally fucking random
@@5508Vanderdekken That might be the first time anyone said I was butthurt and I actually am. I don't know why that brings you joy but just run with it. I suspect if that is true you've got issues and I wouldn't deny you the little enjoyment you have. If I had the time I would write longer diatribes about my butthurt just to entertain you buddy.
@@Will_Moffett it's funny because 1) you think 4 people saying something ~150,000-250,000 people will hear tops means they are "arguing against Medicare 4 All", 2) over the past 365 days, despite all evidence, you still think people hearing stuff is going to change their mind (as opposed to their experiences driving those changes), and 3) I get the feeling that you can't separate critique of your stupidity from critique of what you are stupidly trying to do. It's funny in the same way the three stooges are funny. It's funny because you're stepping on a rake and getting slapped in the face and you wonder aloud why your face hurts all of a sudden
@@5508Vanderdekken I'm not stepping on any rake. I'm not walking into any strong counter arguments or being surprised at any outcomes. Sam Seder went on the Bad Faith podcast to defend not getting anything out of the situational advantage the progressives had. He didn't make a single cogent point. He looked flustered and started speaking incoherently. It was the same with AOC who couldn't even tweet coherently on this topic. This isn't a situation where people are making bad arguments against FTV. Rather, opposition to FTV can't even put together a few premises into the form of an argument. Then there are people like you, nobodies who just become animated by the prospects of either feeling like you are aligned with the braintrust or just enjoy trolling people on a topic you know people actually give a shit about. Either way you're like a damn bug. I don't see how people like you have any self conception anyone could live with.
Indeed. It doesn't happen on the STEM side either. "Doctor" comes up as a title only in formal introductions and the immediate aftermath of defending a thesis.
@@nohbuddy1 Yes because in the middle of a pandemic and economic recession - it's really the worst time to try to weaponize healthcare and make corporate dems look bad. Clearly we should wait until 2022 when the dems have lost the house and the virus is gone to broach the subject.
@@nfb4027 Bro it isn't going to fucking pass the house. If it did it would fail in the Senate. Is Marijuana decriminalized right now after passing the house? No. Fucking morons. They look bad regardless. People were still going bankrupt and dying before COVID.
@@nohbuddy1 Definitely we should talk less about issues and not try and pass them just to make sure absolutely nothing happens legally or in terms of publicity and maintaining the issue in the public's mind. Marijuana is a great example of something where people kept talking about it and passing bills that would get shot down. And then what happened? That's right suddenly the ball actually started rolling nationwide on decriminalisation and medical use. We can't have that. Please stop doing things. We have to wait until something will definitely pass everywhere by everyone and will solves 100% of all problems that exist. Because that will never occur we can keep using that as an excuse and never have to do anything but listen to pods. Thanks you.
With regards to the last segment, let me post a quote from the OG Doomerboi, Karl Marx: "Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past." -- in other words, don't worry about it, the idea that with sufficient virtue and education and engagement you can steer history is liberal transcendentalism of the highest order.
I'm not gonna lie, them shitting on people with PHDs was pretty cringe. They even basically did the gender studies meme and blamed the people who pursued things they where actually interested in and the hard working professors who get payed like shit instead of the system that fucks these people over. These people are barely leftists anymore, they just like sitting back and shitting on liberals without ever actually critiquing them in any meaningful way and it's starting to get on my nerves. I'm surprised they weren't advocating for trump because he wasn't part of the democratic establishment
I really don't like Amber's take of calling people literally pathetic becuase they are getting degrees in things that don't pay anything. Like WTF 'comrade?' Is the lens of captial really the only way to define the value of a degree, even the liberal arts ones you make fun of so much? Some people just have passions, or want to be experts in their field, and your response is to shit on them? It's pretty messed up that the only reasons they could concieve of for people to persue higher education is social status or money. That's just not accurate. FFS, that attitude is why we don't have music or art in public schools anymore. And excuse fucking me, but seeing as how Chapo are podcasters that spend their time shitting on other people while getting paid more than all of thier listeners COMBINED, they should probably be defending persuits others percieve as a waste of time and money- cause that's how many people see them. Thier work has provided them with a ton of social status and economic prosperity, and that's great- but that isn't the endgame for everyone in this world, and it should'nt have to be. All I'm saying is that people persue these degrees for the same reasons that Chapo does what they do as podcasters- Chapo is just way more sucessful from a social standpoint. Chapo's contributions to society are no more than your average Dr. of Lit or whatever, but they feel entitled to shit on the Dr. of Lit cause he's broke but really loves books, and they are rich and get to laugh at people for a living? How else am I supposed to interpret what they are saying, when they take one extreme example of an educational doctor being a pompus ass and use it to call 'those people' pathetic? Yea, fuck off with that.
I agree with a lot of this, but I think it's fair to mock someone who got a degree in humanities yet somehow never developed critical thinking skills, which should be the primary takeaway- analysis, how to grapple with different ideas, shape arguments, etc. If you don't get that out of your education (or pass on through your teaching), then your courses are entertainment, where you read books you love, rather than something that challenged you and made you more capable of affecting the world in a good way. You basically paid thousands of dollars for a library and witty commentators you got to hang with.
Amber said people don't demand to be called "Doctor" in liberal arts field, despite having the title, unless they're a freak (and mentioned that it could come up in formal communications though). She didn't go far enough. I've got a PhD in molecular biology, and NOBODY, apart from deranged pieces of sh*t, demands to be called "Doctor" on the STEM side either.
One way to look at it though is - we have to make a stand somewhere about something at some time. M4A is probably the best we're gonna get, especially in the middle of a pandemic. What their (Dore et al) point is - exactly that. The time is ripe for it. The unrest is growing, especially because of the lock-downs, cratering economy, etc. How many people are going to be filing for bankruptcy, losing their homes, etc. Everybody is anxious. It's a good time to push for the kinds of changes we want to see. Not to mention - the republican civil war is handy.
No emotional connection to politicians is necessary, which will minimise paralysing psychodramas. As well, Amber is correct... People are no longer afraid of M4A. Sooo, time to power up. Also, don’t be stingy this year, lest you rile the marmoset. Fun show!
if not voting for pelosi is a good thing, why not make it count for something. having m4a voted on, does matter - a) it keeps it front and center, b) it allows you to say who to primary and who not, c) it signals to movement that you are actually fighting. And if Tea Party taught anything, fighting like this works. Or, sure, just do more of the same - it has been working great.
ALL of Chapo misses the point of forcing the vote. (All of whom likely HAVE excellent health insurance.) We deserve to know WHO IN POLITICS supports M4A enough to FIGHT FOR & PASS IT and who is WILL NOT *DURING A GLOBAL PANDEMIC*!!
If they had both chambers of congress and a president who would sign it into law, then yeah. Without that, it actually is impossible to know because you’ll have some politicians who do not actually support it who vote for it to look good because they know it won’t pass but they know that voting for it will make them less likely to be targeted in a primary. Not saying the vote isn’t useful to advance the issue, but it does not show who is against it.
Here's the list: www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1384/cosponsors It's all out there in public. ROughly 100 Dems who haven't co-sponsored, loud and proud, and with very few successful primaries against them.
@Matt Terialist Lol this is you Brain on Jimmy Dore, all republicans are against it they will call it socialism and don't lose any votes you: I found one republican who is for it
Every argument made in this vid against forcing a vote for M4A was flat out stupid, uninformed, and seemed lazy as well. There were no arguments made for forcing the vote. The discussion starts around the 46:00 mark. If these Chapo Leftists I am not one. What kind of people argue and argue for something and then won't take the slightest action in that direction supporting what they argue for? They have to be black pilled grifters. There is no other reasonable explanation I can see.
@@maltheopia Their main argument, voiced by at least two of them, is that it's unnecessary to have a vote because we already all know who supports M4A. That's a BS argument for several reasons, mainly because the material conditions concerning healthcare have changed under the pandemic. A vote against it now is very different than a vote against it in better times. Now that we know how susceptible we are to viruses and that more are likely to spread, there is a different calculus. The idea that the primary served as a referendum on healthcare is another weak take. There are plenty of good reasons to force the vote and these guys couldn't come up with one except to say electing Pelosi is antithetical to electoral revolution. If you're not for this vote then you don't really want the policy. If you make a living complaining about capitalism-induced suffering, then I can see how you might not really want that suffering to significantly reduce.
@@Will_Moffett"A vote against it now is very different than a vote against it in better times. Now that we know how susceptible we are to viruses and that more are likely to spread, there is a different calculus." - What liberal-ass thinking. The idea that if you have JUST THE RIGHT argument and messaging, you can meaningfully affect political outcomes. You said that material conditions changed -- what changed since November, when we had the typical 95% incumbent reelection rate? What changed since October, the conclusion of primary season, where we still had the typical 95%+ primary win rate? "The idea that the primary served as a referendum on healthcare is another weak take." - This is just your imagination. Biden wasn't hurt by his anti-M4A stance. Or if he was, some other factor(s) greatly overwhelmed this weakness to give him a comfortable victory. So if it didn't hurt Biden, why don't these factors apply to other Dems?
@@maltheopia Why would you ask what changed since November given that, at that point, the primaries were long over in most races. The ballots were printed by then, almost always with 2 people not talking about or having having plans to push for M4A. Earlier, when the primaries were going, people still thought the pandemic might blow over sooner. It might be interesting to study whether pro M4A candidates did better in later primaries. According to an interview I saw with AOC, every candidate in a swing district who cosigned on to M4A won their elections. I've got apolitical friends who are now realizing if they can't work they need government healthcare. This is a different set of conditions, and seeing how a vote turns out now costs absolutely nothing. We can win it all, right now, and we can't lose anything. Claiming to be for M4A and against this is not a tenable position, not even close. Biden, by most accounts, barely won. I know someone like you would dig up the popular vote and make arguments you don't really believe, but when you dig down into it Biden won because Trump handled the pandemic like the dumbass he is. TRump's poor handling of covid gave some credibility to the 4 year long negative campaign the media has been running against Trump. This was about Trump or not Trump and policy took a back seat. Usually that's a losing strategy, but Trump is so awful and the pandemic so perilous that it worked out for Biden despite his major shortcomings on policy and other areas. This is a guy who for the most part hid for most of the campaign season.
@@Will_Moffett "This is a different set of conditions, and seeing how a vote turns out now costs absolutely nothing. We can win it all, right now, and we can't lose anything." - Me volunteering at the shelter doesn't cost me anything either, it's still not going to do shit about the homelessness crisis. And it's dishonest for people to hector and squeal as if this noble gesture is going to affect anything. You, like most people who have had their brains poisoned by the folk theory of democracy, think that politics changes because of realizations and awareness and aesthetics. It's why you think the COVID-19 crisis slightly worsening but the same power structures still being in place constitutes a meaningful change in material conditions. I try to be understanding because liberalism encourages people to think in this petty, penny-ante thinking, but come the fuck on.
Overwhelming majority of democrats want M4A, a majority of Trump voters want M4A, but the politicians won't vote for it. So Dore came up with this crazy idea to pressure politicians to do it. But all the panel can do is come up with excuses of how it might not work and pressuring politicians doesn't accomplish anything blah blah. I dislike this defeatism as much as I like this channel. If it doesn't work (likely) -- you keep pressuring until they can't take it. That's how it always works. It takes a long time and a lot of fight. Most these arguments about it being bad optics don't make sense in light of the polling on the issue. Voting against it is bad optics. Voting for Pelosi without getting anything is bad optics. Forcing a vote for M4A would look great in the districts that these people come from. Stop pretending like their is some big risk involved here.
The point they made was that we *should* pressure politicans to pass M4A. The problem is, what 'pressure'? Posting online about how you're gonna be real mad if the dems don't bring M4A up to a vote is not 'pressure'. We should "do something" but that something is actual organizing, not posting.
@@bigbrother787 I don't think they made that "do something" very clear. It's frustrating to hear "this ain't it chief" over and over without telling the chief what IS it.
@@niceprofile-k6i I agree, but this is part of the problem. We are looking to comedians like Dore and Chapo to lead us. They have some good analysis but Lenin they are not.
@@bigbrother787 you’re right, these people regularly have bad takes, dore more than most. No doubt they will get traction from the mainstream but when life gives you lemons...
Agree, very disappointing take. These chapo guys sound like pretentious a-holes trying to over-intellectualize this ForceTheVote issue while marginalized people need healthcare during a pandemic.
Right. Why did these guys support Bernie? Even if he had won he would have accomplished next to nothing. Maybe building momentum with pressure from the left can be long-term effective.
The point they made was that we *should* pressure politicians to pass M4A. The problem is, what 'pressure'? Posting online about how you're gonna be real mad if the dems don't bring M4A up to a vote is not 'pressure'. We should "do something" but that something is actual organizing, not posting.
@@gerrykollman Bernie had an organized movement behind him that may have been leveraged to pressure politicians. This movement could have grown under his presidency. Dore does not have an organized movement. You need to get to the point where it doesn't matter if individual politicians actually agree with you but they still vote with you because it's politically unviable for them not to.
One year anniversary of the progressives voting for Nancy Pelosi and getting NOTHING in return! One year of the progressives FAILING to use leverage at every turn! ForceTheVote was correct AF, and we've been proven right all year!
Fan, fan, fan the flames of cynicism higher, higher, and higher..."forget it Jake... it's Chinatown..." Warming the hearts of every plutocrat who never harbored any illusions about making the world a better place.... confirming in their minds how SMART it was to be selfish. This of course begs the question... just who, exactly, will continue listening to this show, based on the content of this episode??? Pardon me while I fester in my miasma of powerlessness, which, by the way, I can do by myself.... without listening to podcasts.
@Jing Bot I''ve been down the tankie/militant communist pipeline and it's all just horrible. The only unironically good things the Communists did were in education and in women's rights. Maybe you're right, it definitely doesn't look like we'll ever vote in someone who really can fix the climate crisis or even socialized medicine at this point, but running around threatening people with guns doesn't lead to positive changes.
Good to see the Chapo gang completely misunderstand the whole #ForcetheVote thing because they could barely be bothered to look at it in detail for five seconds.
Like most media types they overestimate the public’s political awareness. My parents don’t really get that Dems wouldn’t pass M4A even if they could. That’s the problem #ForceTheVote is working towards. Also the Doomer Defense Mechanism is getting old at this point. Bernie lost, move on, start caring again pls
Yep, a floor vote on M4A was just a suggestion. Although Bernie forcing a doomed vote on $2k checks was great. The point of ForceTheVote was for elected progressives to demand SOMETHING. They were just quietly going along.
@@just4fun6671 Obama -> BLM if the left stop farting on twitter the could use his abysmal performance the next 4 Years to increase support for lefty ideas/organizations/candidates
Are you trying to tell me i can’t push to primary my representative who voted no? YOU may know the reps who voted for\against but I don’t. Their names are not front and center and I guarantee you, the rank and file are not as aware as you. This discussion shows me even leftists live in a bubble.
the names of the ~120 democrats who didn't co-sponsor M4A are publicly available online, just like the names of the ~140 Dems who will vote against this hyothetical bill will also available online, I don't see the difference
@@berbs9691 and you can see biden's policy on his website. attention is the most valuable commodity in today's politics and drawing attention to this issue is helping
@@niceprofile-k6i yes, and this isn't going to draw attention to M4A, since it is 100% going to fail, and since the media will concetrate on the pelosi part of it. the hard truth is that there is no mass movement to push for this, one which doesn't need impartial media, and that has to be built before stunts like this can be attempted. seriously, listen to the ep, they are right, this fight is a symptom of powerlessness.
@GayJew Exactly! THey know this bill isn't going to pass, they can as easily vote for it and not support it. They did the same with the public option before 2008. This vote will give no clarity.
@GayJew Firstly, it has 118 co-sponsors and needs 220 votes to pass. 100 votes short, and as you said, many of these co-sponsors are not sincere. And 118 was from 2018. Since then the M4A presidential candidate was destroyed in the primary. secondly, you're ignoring how govt works, who (the vast majority of) the media and (the vast majority of) representatives are answerable to - the owners of capital. The left is so so so so far from power, and so totally defeated, and you're having these fantasies about once-in-a-generation stuff passing.
Very disappointing take. These chapo guys sound like pretentious a-holes trying to over-intellectualize this ForceTheVote issue while marginalized people are in desperate need of healthcare during a pandemic. Direct action is crucial.
The notion that only people in AOC's district could possibly push her is slightly less accurate for her, specifically, because of all the small dollar donations she takes
I will say I agree that the left does need to be more cutthroat in politics, but you also need to take some things into account. Everyone needs to be on the same page. A plan needs to be agreed on and people have to stick to it and the relevant talking points. Even if people don't agree with the plan completely they need to play ball. People need to know how to be cutthroat. Don't bring in wild cards you can't control and don't hesitate backstab someone who is a liability. And when you do backstab make sure they can't hit back later. Honestly, the hardest part is finding people you can trust to get the job done, not deviate from the goal, and get into a position of power.
Amber said: "We need to be more cold-blooded. It should be: This person is on our side but can't do anything for us. This person will never be on our side but if we have enough power they will work for us anyway". Words to live by.
Matt with the NAAPCP slip had me dying
"well he can't legally fly it because of the, you know..." lmfao
Lmfaooo, felix's Schumer and Cuomo impressions 8:32 - 8:51.
For fuck’s sake when is the H.W. Part II episode coming out?!
Felix's impressions>everything they do on SNL these days
Way to damn with faint praise lol
Felix's farts are better than anything they do on snl these days
Yes but that’s a really low bar. SNL is just a lib cringe factory.
just me or did anyone else not know that amber had a hearing disability
Maybe that’s why she interrupts so much /s
I had no idea
Matt has a condition too, they're just don't mention that sort of thing often
@@muxperience that's the one i've heard of because he talked briefly on one of the twitch streams about why he never mentions it xD
No, know she has a speaking "disability"... (kidding)😆
I thought Nadine, in Twin Peaks, wore the eyepatch much better.
correct
Almost anyone can fall better than Dan Crenshaw because all you need is depth perception.
I'm the only White Boy who did it!!
I love you guys and I know you don't agree with each other all the time but whether you'll think something is worth caring about or not seems sometimes totally fucking random
@@HONEYDRUDGER the teens in Afghanistan don't have any choice
Man. I got a PhD because I always loved science and wanted to do it as long as I could. Chapo just stabbed me in the heart. Ouch
don't forget these are liberal arts ppl. not the same attitude/outlook/prospects as stem
Imagine not having your own opinion?
This might be the funniest episode I ever heard from you all. Chuck Schumer had me crying.
Yeah when they argued against taking a step toward M4A that was a fucking riot.
@@Will_Moffett the only thing thats funnier is reading all your butthurt comments 1 year later. Fking priceless
@@5508Vanderdekken That might be the first time anyone said I was butthurt and I actually am. I don't know why that brings you joy but just run with it. I suspect if that is true you've got issues and I wouldn't deny you the little enjoyment you have. If I had the time I would write longer diatribes about my butthurt just to entertain you buddy.
@@Will_Moffett it's funny because 1) you think 4 people saying something ~150,000-250,000 people will hear tops means they are "arguing against Medicare 4 All", 2) over the past 365 days, despite all evidence, you still think people hearing stuff is going to change their mind (as opposed to their experiences driving those changes), and 3) I get the feeling that you can't separate critique of your stupidity from critique of what you are stupidly trying to do. It's funny in the same way the three stooges are funny. It's funny because you're stepping on a rake and getting slapped in the face and you wonder aloud why your face hurts all of a sudden
@@5508Vanderdekken I'm not stepping on any rake. I'm not walking into any strong counter arguments or being surprised at any outcomes. Sam Seder went on the Bad Faith podcast to defend not getting anything out of the situational advantage the progressives had. He didn't make a single cogent point. He looked flustered and started speaking incoherently. It was the same with AOC who couldn't even tweet coherently on this topic. This isn't a situation where people are making bad arguments against FTV. Rather, opposition to FTV can't even put together a few premises into the form of an argument. Then there are people like you, nobodies who just become animated by the prospects of either feeling like you are aligned with the braintrust or just enjoy trolling people on a topic you know people actually give a shit about. Either way you're like a damn bug. I don't see how people like you have any self conception anyone could live with.
Show Amber's squirrel!
Wow, I got 2/3 of the way through this before realizing they were talking about Jill Biden and not Jill Stein.
Jill Stein will always be the only REAL doctor Jill!
Felix is in rare form here. God tier shit. 15:00 18:00
I know lotsa PhDs. Not one is referred to as doctor. But whatever, it's a stupid controversy
Indeed. It doesn't happen on the STEM side either. "Doctor" comes up as a title only in formal introductions and the immediate aftermath of defending a thesis.
I'm going to hold AOC accountable, by posting online
If only we called her a fucking sell out over and over on Twitter we can get medicare for all
@@nohbuddy1 Yes because in the middle of a pandemic and economic recession - it's really the worst time to try to weaponize healthcare and make corporate dems look bad. Clearly we should wait until 2022 when the dems have lost the house and the virus is gone to broach the subject.
@@nfb4027 Bro it isn't going to fucking pass the house. If it did it would fail in the Senate. Is Marijuana decriminalized right now after passing the house? No.
Fucking morons.
They look bad regardless. People were still going bankrupt and dying before COVID.
@@nohbuddy1 Definitely we should talk less about issues and not try and pass them just to make sure absolutely nothing happens legally or in terms of publicity and maintaining the issue in the public's mind.
Marijuana is a great example of something where people kept talking about it and passing bills that would get shot down. And then what happened? That's right suddenly the ball actually started rolling nationwide on decriminalisation and medical use.
We can't have that. Please stop doing things.
We have to wait until something will definitely pass everywhere by everyone and will solves 100% of all problems that exist. Because that will never occur we can keep using that as an excuse and never have to do anything but listen to pods.
Thanks you.
@@FirstnameLastname-kn5sw Is it legal? People get the work done, not politicians
cant believe you got zizek on this one
where was Joe Estevez in that Crenshaw ad
Dan Crenshaw will be driving a tank into all the Dr's in his next ad
last 15 mins chapo turns into pod save with an aparthetic attitude, force leverage.
With regards to the last segment, let me post a quote from the OG Doomerboi, Karl Marx: "Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past." -- in other words, don't worry about it, the idea that with sufficient virtue and education and engagement you can steer history is liberal transcendentalism of the highest order.
What the fuck is that supposed to mean? What's that have to do with anything?
@@WanderingIdiot81 It means life isn't a West Wing episode.
@@utkarsh2746 well I don't watch the West Wing either, so thanks for nothing. Again!
what is this visualisation
I like it
kely loeffler has the innsmouth look
Felix was in his bag
I'm not gonna lie, them shitting on people with PHDs was pretty cringe. They even basically did the gender studies meme and blamed the people who pursued things they where actually interested in and the hard working professors who get payed like shit instead of the system that fucks these people over. These people are barely leftists anymore, they just like sitting back and shitting on liberals without ever actually critiquing them in any meaningful way and it's starting to get on my nerves. I'm surprised they weren't advocating for trump because he wasn't part of the democratic establishment
I really don't like Amber's take of calling people literally pathetic becuase they are getting degrees in things that don't pay anything. Like WTF 'comrade?' Is the lens of captial really the only way to define the value of a degree, even the liberal arts ones you make fun of so much? Some people just have passions, or want to be experts in their field, and your response is to shit on them? It's pretty messed up that the only reasons they could concieve of for people to persue higher education is social status or money. That's just not accurate. FFS, that attitude is why we don't have music or art in public schools anymore.
And excuse fucking me, but seeing as how Chapo are podcasters that spend their time shitting on other people while getting paid more than all of thier listeners COMBINED, they should probably be defending persuits others percieve as a waste of time and money- cause that's how many people see them. Thier work has provided them with a ton of social status and economic prosperity, and that's great- but that isn't the endgame for everyone in this world, and it should'nt have to be. All I'm saying is that people persue these degrees for the same reasons that Chapo does what they do as podcasters- Chapo is just way more sucessful from a social standpoint. Chapo's contributions to society are no more than your average Dr. of Lit or whatever, but they feel entitled to shit on the Dr. of Lit cause he's broke but really loves books, and they are rich and get to laugh at people for a living? How else am I supposed to interpret what they are saying, when they take one extreme example of an educational doctor being a pompus ass and use it to call 'those people' pathetic? Yea, fuck off with that.
I agree with a lot of this, but I think it's fair to mock someone who got a degree in humanities yet somehow never developed critical thinking skills, which should be the primary takeaway- analysis, how to grapple with different ideas, shape arguments, etc. If you don't get that out of your education (or pass on through your teaching), then your courses are entertainment, where you read books you love, rather than something that challenged you and made you more capable of affecting the world in a good way. You basically paid thousands of dollars for a library and witty commentators you got to hang with.
Amber said people don't demand to be called "Doctor" in liberal arts field, despite having the title, unless they're a freak (and mentioned that it could come up in formal communications though). She didn't go far enough. I've got a PhD in molecular biology, and NOBODY, apart from deranged pieces of sh*t, demands to be called "Doctor" on the STEM side either.
Snake foreskin!! 🐍 dude that was funny 😁 😂!!
Very disappointed by this episode!!! Really wanted to see Amber’s squirrel buddy onscreen
Same. I came to the TH-cam channel because I hoped to see the squirrel ☹️
Joctor Dill, though
Enjoyed the wild kingdom episode
In the UK, if you have a PhD you can call yourself Doctor and no one makes a big deal out of it.
One way to look at it though is - we have to make a stand somewhere about something at some time. M4A is probably the best we're gonna get, especially in the middle of a pandemic. What their (Dore et al) point is - exactly that. The time is ripe for it. The unrest is growing, especially because of the lock-downs, cratering economy, etc. How many people are going to be filing for bankruptcy, losing their homes, etc. Everybody is anxious. It's a good time to push for the kinds of changes we want to see.
Not to mention - the republican civil war is handy.
Completely agree, the time to fight for M4A is now!
Why are these clips always from episodes that don’t appear in the Grey Wolf feed?
If you have a hearing disability, you probably know sign language and nothing is cooler than that.
No emotional connection to politicians is necessary, which will minimise paralysing psychodramas.
As well, Amber is correct... People are no longer afraid of M4A. Sooo, time to power up.
Also, don’t be stingy this year, lest you rile the marmoset. Fun show!
Jimmy Dore 2024
@Jing Bot It's you.
Didn't foresee the Chapo crew to come out against M4All, you hate to see if folks.
if not voting for pelosi is a good thing, why not make it count for something. having m4a voted on, does matter - a) it keeps it front and center, b) it allows you to say who to primary and who not, c) it signals to movement that you are actually fighting. And if Tea Party taught anything, fighting like this works. Or, sure, just do more of the same - it has been working great.
ALL of Chapo misses the point of forcing the vote. (All of whom likely HAVE excellent health insurance.) We deserve to know WHO IN POLITICS supports M4A enough to FIGHT FOR & PASS IT and who is WILL NOT *DURING A GLOBAL PANDEMIC*!!
If they had both chambers of congress and a president who would sign it into law, then yeah. Without that, it actually is impossible to know because you’ll have some politicians who do not actually support it who vote for it to look good because they know it won’t pass but they know that voting for it will make them less likely to be targeted in a primary. Not saying the vote isn’t useful to advance the issue, but it does not show who is against it.
Here's the list: www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1384/cosponsors
It's all out there in public. ROughly 100 Dems who haven't co-sponsored, loud and proud, and with very few successful primaries against them.
@Matt Terialist Lol this is you Brain on Jimmy Dore, all republicans are against it they will call it socialism and don't lose any votes
you: I found one republican who is for it
Lol this definitely worked and aged perfectly. We are on our way to Medicare for all now - now that we KNOW who is for it
Every argument made in this vid against forcing a vote for M4A was flat out stupid, uninformed, and seemed lazy as well. There were no arguments made for forcing the vote. The discussion starts around the 46:00 mark. If these Chapo Leftists I am not one. What kind of people argue and argue for something and then won't take the slightest action in that direction supporting what they argue for? They have to be black pilled grifters. There is no other reasonable explanation I can see.
There's a difference between being for or against a vote and saying that it doesn't fucking matter which what happens -- which is the Chapo position.
@@maltheopia Their main argument, voiced by at least two of them, is that it's unnecessary to have a vote because we already all know who supports M4A. That's a BS argument for several reasons, mainly because the material conditions concerning healthcare have changed under the pandemic. A vote against it now is very different than a vote against it in better times. Now that we know how susceptible we are to viruses and that more are likely to spread, there is a different calculus. The idea that the primary served as a referendum on healthcare is another weak take.
There are plenty of good reasons to force the vote and these guys couldn't come up with one except to say electing Pelosi is antithetical to electoral revolution. If you're not for this vote then you don't really want the policy. If you make a living complaining about capitalism-induced suffering, then I can see how you might not really want that suffering to significantly reduce.
@@Will_Moffett"A vote against it now is very different than a vote against it in better times. Now that we know how susceptible we are to viruses and that more are likely to spread, there is a different calculus." - What liberal-ass thinking. The idea that if you have JUST THE RIGHT argument and messaging, you can meaningfully affect political outcomes. You said that material conditions changed -- what changed since November, when we had the typical 95% incumbent reelection rate? What changed since October, the conclusion of primary season, where we still had the typical 95%+ primary win rate?
"The idea that the primary served as a referendum on healthcare is another weak take." - This is just your imagination. Biden wasn't hurt by his anti-M4A stance. Or if he was, some other factor(s) greatly overwhelmed this weakness to give him a comfortable victory. So if it didn't hurt Biden, why don't these factors apply to other Dems?
@@maltheopia Why would you ask what changed since November given that, at that point, the primaries were long over in most races. The ballots were printed by then, almost always with 2 people not talking about or having having plans to push for M4A. Earlier, when the primaries were going, people still thought the pandemic might blow over sooner. It might be interesting to study whether pro M4A candidates did better in later primaries. According to an interview I saw with AOC, every candidate in a swing district who cosigned on to M4A won their elections. I've got apolitical friends who are now realizing if they can't work they need government healthcare. This is a different set of conditions, and seeing how a vote turns out now costs absolutely nothing. We can win it all, right now, and we can't lose anything. Claiming to be for M4A and against this is not a tenable position, not even close.
Biden, by most accounts, barely won. I know someone like you would dig up the popular vote and make arguments you don't really believe, but when you dig down into it Biden won because Trump handled the pandemic like the dumbass he is. TRump's poor handling of covid gave some credibility to the 4 year long negative campaign the media has been running against Trump. This was about Trump or not Trump and policy took a back seat. Usually that's a losing strategy, but Trump is so awful and the pandemic so perilous that it worked out for Biden despite his major shortcomings on policy and other areas. This is a guy who for the most part hid for most of the campaign season.
@@Will_Moffett "This is a different set of conditions, and seeing how a vote turns out now costs absolutely nothing. We can win it all, right now, and we can't lose anything." - Me volunteering at the shelter doesn't cost me anything either, it's still not going to do shit about the homelessness crisis. And it's dishonest for people to hector and squeal as if this noble gesture is going to affect anything.
You, like most people who have had their brains poisoned by the folk theory of democracy, think that politics changes because of realizations and awareness and aesthetics. It's why you think the COVID-19 crisis slightly worsening but the same power structures still being in place constitutes a meaningful change in material conditions. I try to be understanding because liberalism encourages people to think in this petty, penny-ante thinking, but come the fuck on.
I'd like to see the tape of bidens and mitchy Mitchs' 8th time they did coke together.
Overwhelming majority of democrats want M4A, a majority of Trump voters want M4A, but the politicians won't vote for it. So Dore came up with this crazy idea to pressure politicians to do it. But all the panel can do is come up with excuses of how it might not work and pressuring politicians doesn't accomplish anything blah blah. I dislike this defeatism as much as I like this channel.
If it doesn't work (likely) -- you keep pressuring until they can't take it. That's how it always works. It takes a long time and a lot of fight. Most these arguments about it being bad optics don't make sense in light of the polling on the issue. Voting against it is bad optics. Voting for Pelosi without getting anything is bad optics. Forcing a vote for M4A would look great in the districts that these people come from. Stop pretending like their is some big risk involved here.
The point they made was that we *should* pressure politicans to pass M4A. The problem is, what 'pressure'? Posting online about how you're gonna be real mad if the dems don't bring M4A up to a vote is not 'pressure'. We should "do something" but that something is actual organizing, not posting.
@@bigbrother787 I don't think they made that "do something" very clear. It's frustrating to hear "this ain't it chief" over and over without telling the chief what IS it.
@@niceprofile-k6i I agree, but this is part of the problem. We are looking to comedians like Dore and Chapo to lead us. They have some good analysis but Lenin they are not.
@@bigbrother787 you’re right, these people regularly have bad takes, dore more than most. No doubt they will get traction from the mainstream but when life gives you lemons...
Sorry guys. 2020 seems to have defeated you. Bad take on Jimmy and his call for a movement to try and put M4A back in the spotlight. 😢
Agree, very disappointing take. These chapo guys sound like pretentious a-holes trying to over-intellectualize this ForceTheVote issue while marginalized people need healthcare during a pandemic.
Right. Why did these guys support Bernie? Even if he had won he would have accomplished next to nothing. Maybe building momentum with pressure from the left can be long-term effective.
The point they made was that we *should* pressure politicians to pass M4A. The problem is, what 'pressure'? Posting online about how you're gonna be real mad if the dems don't bring M4A up to a vote is not 'pressure'. We should "do something" but that something is actual organizing, not posting.
@@gerrykollman Bernie had an organized movement behind him that may have been leveraged to pressure politicians. This movement could have grown under his presidency. Dore does not have an organized movement. You need to get to the point where it doesn't matter if individual politicians actually agree with you but they still vote with you because it's politically unviable for them not to.
One year anniversary of the progressives voting for Nancy Pelosi and getting NOTHING in return! One year of the progressives FAILING to use leverage at every turn! ForceTheVote was correct AF, and we've been proven right all year!
Fan, fan, fan the flames of cynicism higher, higher, and higher..."forget it Jake... it's Chinatown..."
Warming the hearts of every plutocrat who never harbored any illusions about making the world a better place.... confirming in their minds how SMART it was to be selfish.
This of course begs the question... just who, exactly, will continue listening to this show, based on the content of this episode??? Pardon me while I fester in my miasma of powerlessness, which, by the way, I can do by myself.... without listening to podcasts.
@Jing Bot Whatever you're implying sounds fucking horrible. Just thoughtless and cruel.
@Jing Bot I''ve been down the tankie/militant communist pipeline and it's all just horrible. The only unironically good things the Communists did were in education and in women's rights. Maybe you're right, it definitely doesn't look like we'll ever vote in someone who really can fix the climate crisis or even socialized medicine at this point, but running around threatening people with guns doesn't lead to positive changes.
Good to see the Chapo gang completely misunderstand the whole #ForcetheVote thing because they could barely be bothered to look at it in detail for five seconds.
Like most media types they overestimate the public’s political awareness. My parents don’t really get that Dems wouldn’t pass M4A even if they could. That’s the problem #ForceTheVote is working towards. Also the Doomer Defense Mechanism is getting old at this point. Bernie lost, move on, start caring again pls
Yep, a floor vote on M4A was just a suggestion. Although Bernie forcing a doomed vote on $2k checks was great. The point of ForceTheVote was for elected progressives to demand SOMETHING. They were just quietly going along.
I really am pulling for Biden to be the good president we need but that whole NAACP meeting came across as 'old man yells at clouds.'
show me why there is any reason to have hope for that a Biden presidency will be good for the Left
@@just4fun6671 Obama -> BLM
if the left stop farting on twitter the could use his abysmal performance the next 4 Years to increase support for lefty ideas/organizations/candidates
@@sheepwool9319 huh?
@@sheepwool9319 I disagree that Obama gave rise to BLM. Occupy is more to credit for BLM than anything Obama did
@@sheepwool9319 also doing things on Twitter isn't going to do much of anything substantive on the greater Left movement.
Are you trying to tell me i can’t push to primary my representative who voted no? YOU may know the reps who voted for\against but I don’t. Their names are not front and center and I guarantee you, the rank and file are not as aware as you. This discussion shows me even leftists live in a bubble.
the names of the ~120 democrats who didn't co-sponsor M4A are publicly available online, just like the names of the ~140 Dems who will vote against this hyothetical bill will also available online, I don't see the difference
@@berbs9691 and you can see biden's policy on his website. attention is the most valuable commodity in today's politics and drawing attention to this issue is helping
@@niceprofile-k6i yes, and this isn't going to draw attention to M4A, since it is 100% going to fail, and since the media will concetrate on the pelosi part of it. the hard truth is that there is no mass movement to push for this, one which doesn't need impartial media, and that has to be built before stunts like this can be attempted. seriously, listen to the ep, they are right, this fight is a symptom of powerlessness.
@GayJew Exactly! THey know this bill isn't going to pass, they can as easily vote for it and not support it. They did the same with the public option before 2008. This vote will give no clarity.
@GayJew Firstly, it has 118 co-sponsors and needs 220 votes to pass. 100 votes short, and as you said, many of these co-sponsors are not sincere. And 118 was from 2018. Since then the M4A presidential candidate was destroyed in the primary. secondly, you're ignoring how govt works, who (the vast majority of) the media and (the vast majority of) representatives are answerable to - the owners of capital.
The left is so so so so far from power, and so totally defeated, and you're having these fantasies about once-in-a-generation stuff passing.
Chapo “don’t even try to do anything, ever” Trap House
"Duh....i don't see the point duh..." don't call her pelosi call her mama bear instead.
Very disappointing take. These chapo guys sound like pretentious a-holes trying to over-intellectualize this ForceTheVote issue while marginalized people are in desperate need of healthcare during a pandemic.
Direct action is crucial.
tweeting aoc is a sell out isn't direct action. it has no influence on any policy decisions
@@lutherblissett9070 Calling your representatives and loudly demanding stuff from them isn't direct action. -- You, a genius
Is this purposely leftist tim pool, or is that just some weird parallel thinking thing?
The notion that only people in AOC's district could possibly push her is slightly less accurate for her, specifically, because of all the small dollar donations she takes
I will say I agree that the left does need to be more cutthroat in politics, but you also need to take some things into account. Everyone needs to be on the same page. A plan needs to be agreed on and people have to stick to it and the relevant talking points. Even if people don't agree with the plan completely they need to play ball. People need to know how to be cutthroat. Don't bring in wild cards you can't control and don't hesitate backstab someone who is a liability. And when you do backstab make sure they can't hit back later. Honestly, the hardest part is finding people you can trust to get the job done, not deviate from the goal, and get into a position of power.