Me: Open Arms Reprise?? I've seen it before, lemme go check it out! 😄 Also me afterward: Mortius is the personification of evil🙂 I wish I could go back to before I knew this song existed because I should not have bawled my eyes out like I did😭 You think you understand pain until you hear the songs, but that was my soul being ripped to shreds🙂...they're amazing, but my heart is suffering. Keep up the amazing reactions, loving your vids.
I just wanted to say I think you were close with the ghosts behind Athena. It is the people that he "has." He claims she is alone, but she is showing him right now he has NONE of the people he thinks he does.
27:07 to be fair, Athena is one of the 3 gods of the greek pantheon that cannot be influenced by Aphrodite, as stated in the Homeric Hymns. The Aphrodite chapter in Homeric Hymns has a whole ass stanza saying Athena, who loves war and teaching men and women, cannot be persuaded or fooled by Aphrodite. She literally cannot (be affected by) love.
I feel Athena partially pushed him into with her words, it got him mad and upset, perhaps if she had been more empathetic she could have talked him out of it.
Hey listen, it's easy to facepalm knowing what comes next, but I sure didn't, back when I first heard that. I was all hyped up like "HELL YEAH, TELL HIM! How does mercy taste, b**ch?!?"
@@speedy01247 Athena's not really known for empathy. "Goddess of Wisdom, Master of War" in her mind emotions are a pretty poor excuse for a general to make such an unwise call.
I truly wish I could say I was sorry 😆 It’s a rite of passage, I’m afraid. Thank you for accompanying me on this journey brother. Can’t wait to continue soon 💕
Hey mortius!! Wanted to let you know that a full animatic of the song “there are other ways” was done by anniflamma recently on Mother’s Day! When you get to the Circe saga I HIGHLY recommend it!! Flows so easily and is fantastic as always from them!!
I’m not gonna point out when they happen but Mortius my guy, my dude, if you keep making Significant Faces at the camera every time he says something unintentionally and horrifically ironic, he is GONNA catch on XDDDD
1:00 "Are you in the mood for pancakes" HOW DARE YOU MORTIUS? You are so lucky Casper doesn't know the EPIC fandom association with pancakes. (For those who don't know, "pancakes" is basically a semi-comedic EPIC fandom shorthand for Polites's death because Polites got flattened like a pancake.)
There is a frame where as Odysseus namedrops himself where it looks like he holds his own sword to his throat when he goes to sheathe it. He's very much symbolically and visually dooming himself (and his crew) there.
It's genuinely worse in the Odyssey, because he gives his name, address, AND his father's name In ancient Greece, giving away your father's name is equivalent to giving away your social security number. It's a means of very important identification
It really is. The sad part is that it's fairly evident from how the bridge to that part of the song is set up that the reason he ends up doing that is lashing out at Athena's demand he go back and fight MORE with the first enemy since he first set out to war that has managed to kill some of the men he leads and whose lives are his responsibility. Just so he could finish off - from his point of view needlessly - a foe that's already been rendered unable to hurt them further. As we learn, he didn't know who the cyclops was, and in her "wisdom" Athena didn't tell him either, just expecting him to obey. Even Zeus did better thatn that in the Horse and the Infant.
Spoilers for Ocean Saga? I think a lot about the cyclops response and how it makes me feel. Like - a lot of people say that the cyclops killing all of the men and that him calling on his dad/a god is an overreaction (and there is something to be said about the portrayal of the cyclops being younger/kid-ish) but sometimes I think of it as if he was responding to ants or a pest. Like imagine, you're a kid and you come home to find that a bunch of ants killed your pet. You don't know who killed your pet, just that they were responsible. You are angry and upset and these are *ants*. Then the ants try and offer you a (poisoned) grape. Inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, but maybe you'll go a little easier on the one who made the peace offering. Give him a little longer to live. And then you pass out because these ants drugged you and you wake *in pain* and *blind*. Of course you're going to call on your big scary god dad - especially if the other adults in your community don't care or believe. And the main ant also doxxed himself so that's helpful.
So, in the myths, the main reason why the main divine villain of the saga was able to directly attack Odysseus, which in turn got him from misfortune to misfortune was because he lost the patronage of Athena. Meaning, had they not fought, him doxxing himself to Polyphemus wouldn't have put him in TOO MUCH danger if he was still under Athena's protection
Taking “My Goodbye” from the perspective of ‘Athena is objectively correct’ is very interesting. Odysseus is the general of his army, the captain of his fleet. The safety and lives of his men are on him. Until the moment the fleet returns to Ithaca, his job is not done, and the war isn’t “over”. It is part of a general’s duty to make sure as many of his men as possible make it home alive. The moment Polites died, it unsettled Odysseus and he was unable to act as a general, leading to more deaths. Athena is berating him for losing his nerve over a single soldier’s death, as well as the more obvious flaunting of her instructions and his hubris of thinking they were on the same level. Athena was never Odysseus’ friend, she was his mentor and instructor. The power dynamic is that of a goddess and a mortal, not of two equals. I’ll push back on the idea that Odysseus’ failures are Athena’s failures because A) she can’t control Odysseus, he has to be able to make his own decisions and face the consequences of those actions, and B) Athena LITERALLY taught him to close his heart, but when he followed the Open Arms mentality against that instruction, it led here. Final note; I imagine Athena’s mindscape/paused time is a representation of adrenaline in combat, how the world slows down around you.
The problem with that perspective is that Athena is _objectively_ the problem in that scene. Polyphemus is defeated and crippled. They have the sheeps which they came for. Polyphemus has no way of knowing who attacked him, or ever finding retribution. More importantly, there are other Cyclopsi around, and they are a constant danger to his men. Odysseus' job as king and general is to get his men to safety ASAP, which he is already doing, when Athena interrupts him and tells him he needs to kill Polyphemus, even when doing so would have zero benefit whatsoever. It almost feels like Athena's getting too lost in her "Warrior of the Mind" earning glory in her name and forgetting that he's a king and general with actual subjects and friends he cares for and mourns. Not to mention coming in and immediately taunting Odysseus over the death of his friends 100% pushes him to act rashly, but that's a different topic. Athena can be just as much of a shortsighted idiot as Odysseus can be, which is why their dynamic is so interesting
@@hamzafawad9331 She is a goddess though and the gods are exacting, glory in their name gains them power. Not doing what she asked is wrong due to being a god. He failed as her champion and failed as her follower by giving his name. An act of hubris from someone who didn't earn it.
@@hamzafawad9331 The perspective I’m taking where “Athena is objectively right” means that the facts of the universe unequivocally support Athena’s perspective. “He’s still a threat until he’s dead”; meaning that unless Odysseus killed Polyphemus, there would be some form of consequence exacted on the Icathian fleet. We have no context or information on what that consequence would be, however, likely due to said consequence being related to another deity, which Athena couldn’t interfere with. I can’t agree that Athena was “objectively” the problem here, even outside of the perspective I’m reading it through. Did she poke at Odysseus being unable to save his friends? Yes, absolutely. Was Odysseus’ decision to taunt Polyphemus by doxxing himself done to spite Athena? Also yes. We can assume whatever we wish about Athena’s methods and motives, but the problem was created between two characters, not simply enacted by one of them.
Just something I noticed after reading these: Athena only asks about her lessons and says “he’s still a threat” before Odysseus dox’s himself, she only brings up his friends in “my goodbye”. I’d say that the choice to reveal his name was ALMOST completely his mistake, though Athena did still have an influence it wasn’t so great to the point that it was really her fault. Idk these are all opinions, maybe I just like Athena🙃
Something that was pointed out by a fan, (and Jorge duetted on TikTok confirming this), in the song Warrior of the Mind, when Athena sang the words Warrior of the Mind she held a single note. When Odysseus joined her in the song he did a fancy up and down. The last time they sang Warrior of the Mind, Athena also sang the same way Odysseus did with the up and down. This is supposed to symbolize the two of them forming a bond Here in My Goodbye, during the final verse, Athena did the up and down with the This is my Goodbye. Next line she only changed the note once with the My Goodbye. And in the final This is My Goodbye, she held a single note again. This symbolizes Athena breaking her friendship with Odyssey. Mr. Jalapeño is a Genius
Ahhh, Odysseus reaching out to her as she's leaving. He considered her a friend, after all, and he's just lost Polites. Now she's leaving too, and despite his anger in the moment of his grief, her leaving is still devastating to him.
(Underworld Saga spoilers below) We know he's terribly affected by her leaving when, in "Monster", Odysseus mentions that he's lost his best friend (Polites), his mentor (Athena), and his mom (Anticlea). Of the many he's lost at this point, those three are the worst losses to the point that when he finally snaps, they're at the forefront of his mind.
I think when Athena mentions the dead friends and then tells him to not be emotional is not like a "Hey, stop crying, you big baby!" But more like "Your a warrior, you should be able to talk about dead people calmly." But then again, its just a theory.
The power and draw of Greek myth is that no characters, gods, demigods, humans, even monsters are without flaws or a sympathetic perspective. Percy Jackson and Epic capture that concept so well, there’s a reason these myths have persisted for over a thousand years.
Every time there is Forshadowing in these duo videos and Mortius is just either dying inside or containing the villanous glee and Caspers pain to come, i love it.
30:35 "Him saying 'you're alone' really struck a nerve with Athena" You are correct. I remember on one of the videos where Jorge was explaining the importance of silences to evoque emotion he explained that it did affect Athena, and when he showed the script he has of the lyrics you can see that it says: "Athena is hurt". So yeah!
Lol and I keep thinking of Athena Complex where she keeps being rejected by Poseidon and generally not looked upon as a woman by the other gods who she wants to have look at her that way.
8:22 It is confirmed by Jay that the men are his main characteristic, yes! He gets their support while singing which speaks volumes of his connection with the crew in itself. He has and represents their voice. Its nice.
29:02 Another thing to break your hearts, or make you more pissed at Athena: Since gods can summon their own backing vocals, you _have_ to consider that Athena chose the people's voices that'd fuck him up the most. She really wanted to make it sting. Of course Wolfy chose to put Polites, the Infant, Penelope and Telemachus among the dead soldiers that Polyphemus killed which are actually confirmed to be there, but it's not hard to believe that'd she'd choose to do that tbh. I also like to consider this song as the moment Odysseus finally processes the deaths that just happened, which I believe Wolfy captures really well. By witnessing his mentor and one of his oldest friends abandon him, with the voices of the dead crew going with her, he reaches out in hopes that they won't leave despite the harsh words they just threw at each other. He's already beginning to regret, but the only thing he can do as watch as yet another one of his friends leaves him. And then he gets transported back to the real world, feeling empty inside.
A thing about greek gods ist that they embody humans in their most extreme aspects good and bad (mostly bad), which is frequently showcased in ancient myths, if you look at them on a metaphorical level. So gods are actually very flawed. Aphrodite is very vain and jealous, Athena is prideful, Zeus is, well, Zeus, etc.
I feel like it's a little harsh to say that what happened with the cyclops is entirely on Odysseus🤔 While it's definitely a big mess and as the leader of his men they are his responsibility, it's important to remember that no one had any idea they were in fact invading a home until Polyphemus showed up - in the modern day we think of sheep as primarily livestock, but wild sheep are/were fairly abundant in the areas around the Mediterranean. Hunting somewhere with abundant fauna to replenish food supplies would have been standard pratice. Rather ironically, the only real mistake Odysseus made was not questioning why the Lotus Eaters weren't making use of the food source themselves sooner. Instead of questioning them, he chose to trust Polites and accept the help of directions with open arms. Athena warned him, as we remember, and while she understands nothing about the human condition, she knows gods. And when dealing with gods and monsters, humanity is weakness.
"only real mistake" he told his name and what kingdom he was from to the hostile Cyclops ( race known for their association with the gods). He can bring instead names of polites or other fallen comrades, but nooo he needed to stick his name in there so the cyclop would remember him as well ((i am your darkest moment) oh shut up) an how does this ended))) Athena's pride made her abandon her student and friend in need, Odysseus' pride doomed 500+ people. they are both right and wrong at the same time, and if one of them approached the situation and their conflict with open arms, it wouldn't have happened, but they both are stubborn idiots and with that comes the consequences
That is exactly my thought. A lot people blame most of the tragic things on Odysseus but I feel like it is more often a bunch of minor events that ultimately lead up to the tragedies. 😢😢 Of course there are things that Odysseus could or should have done differently, but so do some other characters. At the end of the day, I don’t think we can really put the blame on anyone, but that might just be me……..😶😢
@@bbgrl-l1s You mistook what I was talking about - I'm going to assume it was accidental instead of on purpose so you could rant :) The only mistake Odysseus made when it came to what he came for - finding food for his men - was not questioning the Lotus Eaters and instead trying to face the world with open arms. Unfortunately, the sheep unbeknowst to him were not wild and instead belonged to a monstrous offspring of a god, and leaning on humanity doesn't work with either monsters or gods. Yes, he did end up doxxing himself afterwards, but that was outside the scope of my topic, as the consequenses of his mistake - the deaths of Polites and six others - had already happened, making his outburst at Athena's demands and its eventual results a separate discussion entirely.
I disagree on the lotus eaters point, the lotus is addictive, they don’t take advantage of other food sources because they have enough lotus to sustain them and are addicted enough to not eat anything else
@@ezracohen6020 You have a very good point there and I'm inclined to agree with you. However, Odysseus DOES question their reasoning once in the cave, which highligts that he could have done so earlier as well, as part of his due diligence. But he was convinced by the kindness they showed even after he'd refused the lotus to do things Polites' way and not even ask, regardless of whether it would have ended up helpful or not. The real tragedy there is that while Odysseus trusting Polites' feelings on the matter and suppressing his war-honed paranoia for once was the wrong call when heading to an island inhabited by cyclops, it WOULD likely have been the right move had they found a place inhabited by humans instead.
11:55 "no matter what, it [the first arrow being fired] is still on Odysseus" ... you could say that if he wants all the power then he has to take all the blame...
I've always noticed in this animatic of my goodbye that Odysseus is literally drowning in the choices he's made, drowning in the people he's affected. Its a good transition into the ocean saga and how drowning or fear of drowning can be shown in different ways through the entire first act. Not to mention the fact that he's reaching out to a god to save him from his own choices which i would assume is common with Odysseus (I haven't seen much from the odyssey or read anything from percy Jackson).
Teagan Early is the voice of Athena, she could sing the ingredients on a shampoo bottle to me 100 times and id ask for 100 more, also the idea of taking Polites headband and making it part of Odysseus costume in a stage version would be so impactful if the color of the headband wasn't used anywhere else, only that one item.
Yeah if anyone brought back polites to emotionally torment odysseus itd be fucked up , but thats not athena's domain, those are more visions like how zeus conjured a vision of adult Astyanax(the baby)
I hugged my mom tight when I saw her yesterday. I hugged my coworkers and friends, which caught them all off guard. When asked why I did it, I said I went on an odyssey of sorts.
Odysseus taking Polites' headband to wear it reminds me of Aragorn doing the same with Boromir's arm bracers at the end of the Fellowship of the Ring movie. I love that sort of character detail.
Greek mythology nerd here 30:36 Fun facts in Greek mythology the reason Athena is alone is because she sees relationships of any kind as a waste of time due to her being the goddess of Strategic war and mostly focusing on that aspect of herself as well as her other domains one of her most known epithets is "the Virgin Athena" because she's never been in a relationship at all and her relationships with the other gods are mutch more co-worker type relationships But although she's never been in any relationship of any kind there are moments in The mythology with people such as odysseus where she actually started to form a platonic mentors relationship with but stops her self from developing any more deeper emotions because they're a waste in our eyes And just to add another fun fact on top of this she's one of the only God's that cannot be influenced by Aphrodite
"she sees relationships of any kind as a waste of time" This is an interpretation, not a fact. But what is a fun fact is that there's pottery in which she is carrying Herakles to Zeus for his apotheosis and the pose depicted (Athena leading Herakles holding his arm) is the same pose as is typically used to indicate a man taking his wife.
Just to give a bit of context Jorge has confirmed what Mortius was saying at 33:54 those almost flashing and distorted sounds is Athena using one of her abilities called Quick Thought where she can pull people into a dimension where they can talk instantly like we saw in “Warrior of the mind” and “My Goodbye” so this is her pulling him in and out of Quick Thought.
I think the people on the background of 'just a man' are meant to represent the human connections he has. Athena is very much a cold and rational person, willing to sacrifice any pawn she sees fit and Odysseus is not and Athena sees that as something that holds him back from reaching his full potential. It really reflects the differences between the humans and the gods.
Yes! There is this really cool sentiment I read online in the Percy Jackson Fandom: It's obvious that there are differences between humans and gods. But it is not, that humans are basically gods with missing divinity...But that gods are like humans, just with missing humanity.
What most dont notice is that when athena makes the high notes in warrior of the mind, she start as one clear high note but then when she duos with Odisseus she start making a kind of scale so Odisseus can follow, but in the last goodby she start with the scale but then, when she realice she is no longer his mentor she goes back to the singular clear high note.
Jorge did confirm that Eurylochus is the voice of the crew as he often sings with the men whenever he is in a song. If you listen carefully, you can hear him as the leading voice in the chorus of Odysseus's men (I don't know if that makes sense but I hope it does). This is a big part of his character as you will see later on in the story, but basically, think of him as the personification of the crew's thoughts.
Did you notice the way Athena sings both "Warrior of the MIND" and "Goodbye" in a mirrored way? She starts cold and sings it straight. Then she meets Odysseus, who is a little bit more emotional and she adopts is lively "Mi-hind" version - which she also does here "Goodby-hye". Right until the last time she says it: just a stretched version, no emotion left.
actually in terms of the arrow and who fires first, it likely is odysseus. hes particularly known for his archery skills. something that will come into play later, tho to avoid spoilers thats all ill say on it.
The sound you hear when Odysseus enters the mindscape with Athena is what Jorge calls as Athena’s signature move “Quick Thought”. This is exclusive to Athena only and is considered her “superpower”(?) I guess you could say?
The high halting noises that play when Athena enters are the sound indicators for a power called 'Quick Thought' - something exclusive to Athena. Alongside the slowed-down ticking sounds, the sounds are used for when she pulls Odysseus into a kind of other dimension, where he and she can have strategy meetings in a split second mid-battle. This skill is a part of what makes Odysseus so formidable to his enemies, and links back to Athena being the 'goddess of wisdom, master of war.' Look back at The Infant and The Horse and you'll hear the ticking there too. That's because Athena herself is present in the sacking of Troy, even though she doesn't appear directly on screen.
Couple things on the art side: the "sketchy style" has a lot to do with these being "animatics." Animatics are usually used during the movie-making process between storyboarding and actual blocking of animation. Once the story is pinned down, the animatic gives the artists a sense of time and place. They work well for songs like these because you get all the characters and emotions, but a fully fleshed out animation would take so much more time. And Athena's design here is so brilliant because she's associated with owls in myth, and you can really see the owlishness in the shape of the helmet on her face and the way she turns her head all the way around when she looks over her shoulder!
I love how the artist gives athena these subtly owl-like features. its simple yet so effective. giving her that touch of non-humanness in contrast to odysseus, who is "just a man" (or put another way, all too human).
"Survive" and "Remember Them" are such _perfect_ audio-storytelling, like you *Feel* Odysseus' absence in "Survive" (after Polites dies you no longer hear Odysseus sing, despite the crew begging for guidence) Then the beginning of "Remember Them" drives home the fact that Odysseus is in shock/dissociating with the disortion in Eurylochus' voice when he tries (4 times!!) to get Odysseus' attention Side note, I love how the fandom decided Odysseus keeps Polites' headband Ive seen some artists have Odysseus use Polites' headband as a headband, a hair-tie, an arm-band, a forearm-wrap Like, its not even a headcanon to me at this point
You should definitely check out the voice of Athenas, TE/MO, own work it's honestly amazing but one of her songs ripped my heart out it was so beautiful and sad
Now that I thought about it long enough I don't think Athena when says "your dead friends can atest, put your emotions aside" is meant to be intentionally cruel, i think she's trying to point out a fault in Odysseus's actions by going "Hey all those soldiers that you just lost would agree with me thst you let your emotions get the better of you, if you hadn't frozen up there because of your sentimentality to Polites then more of them would probably be alive." Which is still a terrible thing to say so fresh after it happened but I can see why she brings it up and even words it that way. If she as his mentor isn't reaching him then surely being backed up by people he presumably seems to care about the opinion of more would make sense. It's divide and conquer, it's strategy. 'Odysseus can be as emotional as he wants about this but logically I'm is right here and even people he loves would agree with me' isn't that surprising of an angle to go about her lecture. Do I think it was bad timing and still a terrible thing to say to a person who just experienced heavy losses? Absolutely, what the heck. But I also can see that Athena while angry wasn't just taking cheap shots, she's taking strategic ones.
I do really like how this Athena design makes her face almost look like a mask, like a constant poker face, the Goddess of battle strategy gives nothing away.
The thing i really wish someone would point out with remember them, is the piano when Athena shows up. Because when Odysseus says no, the music stops for a moment, then Athena's piano comes in, playing all the notes from her theme, but fast and chaotic. To me it feels as if Athena's stunned and her mind is racing, from both the audacity to say no, and the stupidity in not finishing the cyclops. Like, she tells him how to avoid future problems, and he refuses, and she's like, "No? The hell do you mean no?!"
I JUST STARTED CRYING BC I NOTICED POLITES AND HAD TO BE LIKE “hold on, is that fricking POLITES??” and kept watching. I’ve never thrown my iPad so fast and started crying even more when mortius pointed out that HE WAS HOLDING THE MOTHER FLIPPLING CHILD IN HIS ARMS WHO ARE BOTH DEAD AND ATHENA PULLS UP JUST A MAN, I’m am not ok, you are getting my $20 therapy bill.
HEY CYCLOPS, I LIVE IN ITHICA MY ADDRESS IS THE BIG CASTLE ON THE LEFT OF THE BAKERY, AND MY NAME IS ODDYCEUS, (Might as well add 8n that he has a wife and child while hes at it)
I love the second to final part of My Goodbye now because while the first verse reads/sounds like Athena in control and Odysseus lashing out after that it just reads like the two of them lashing out, the way Athena speaks is like she's just trying to hurt the one mortal she has gotten closest to.
I had to relisten to the first saga multiple times before it hit me that Oddysseus sort of seals his fate the moment he starts questioning Zeus. Even though he follows through, he starts to question if the gods are right… And that’s when he starts to falter.
Jay said in a video that because Eurylochus is the 2nd in command and the voice of the crew, the choir of the crew behind is vocals is in fact intended to be his instrument, just like Odysseus's guitar, Athena's piano, Polities' harps, and Penelope's viola. Another note: The line "let's grab the sheep and away we go" is not saying what the animator interpreted it as. It's a reference to the original Odessey, where I believe there was a boulder functioning as a door and blocking the entrance to the cave that was too large for Odysseus and his crew to move, so they needed to leave the cyclops alive so he could pull open the stone blocking the doorway. The way they escaped the cave was by tying themselves to the sheep's bellies when polyphemus let them out to graze the next morning, and, because he couldn't see, he didn't notice that they were grabbing the sheep and hanging on underneath them. So "'Let's grab the sheep" is referencing that, and it's said so quietly because they are sneaking.
“Odysseus is Nobody, and his best is now also no-body.”-My boyfriend just came to me with this that popped into his head and I hate him for saying this and I hate myself for laughing.
You have remember that the first person Athena ever killed was her childhood best friend and/or lover Pallas by sheer accident. She carried that guilt ever since and hardened her heart. Athena even changed her name to "Pallas Athena" to forever remember her friend. Their story echoes Odysseus's loss of his childhood friend Polites. So when she's lashing out here, it's definitely at least //part// painful flashbacks.
24:04 my belief is that Athena is pushing Odysseus away on purpose to protect him from possible future retaliation for the cyclop's indent. She kinda setting up the scene as she ordered Odysseus to do what he did and is now mad that hes refusing further orders and is tossing him away like he is rubbish. Who would be a bigger target for revenge? the hitman that was tossed away after refusing to go with it or the one that ordered the hit
To Jay's defence, he is following the story of the Odyssey, so it's not his fault that Polites dies, but it is his fault for making us love him so much
remember athena is a goddess, and odysseus just disregarded a direct order here ("don't"). which also was a wise one. athena has all the right to be angry at him.
I'm placing this comment on Mortius' video too, but a little Greek insight to Remember Them. In Greek belief, for someone to pass over the River Styx and make it to the Underworld, they have to pay the Ferryman, Charon. That payment is typically buried with their body. There wasn't time to bury the fallen men. Odysseus knew his men and Polites would have no afterlife. He knew there was nothing he could do, except.. Remember Them.
The Ocean Saga is up for Early Access on my Patreon right now!
Go check it out here - www.patreon.com/CFReacts
Me: Open Arms Reprise?? I've seen it before, lemme go check it out! 😄
Also me afterward: Mortius is the personification of evil🙂 I wish I could go back to before I knew this song existed because I should not have bawled my eyes out like I did😭 You think you understand pain until you hear the songs, but that was my soul being ripped to shreds🙂...they're amazing, but my heart is suffering. Keep up the amazing reactions, loving your vids.
Remember our boyfriend Polites
I just wanted to say I think you were close with the ghosts behind Athena. It is the people that he "has." He claims she is alone, but she is showing him right now he has NONE of the people he thinks he does.
Mortius: "It's a bold choice to reveal your name and then let him live."
Me: ... Listen here, you little...
My exact rection 😂
When he said it’s “ruthless” in the previous video was down right horrid
@@drsciencebj996IKR?!
Unlike him some people just have no mercy left to give
coming back to this after watching Ocean Saga -how many fkn times is Mortius going to do this man hahahaha
"Oh yeah and, what's Polites holding?"
"HE'S HOLDING THE-" *absolutely loses it*
Mortius: *Maniacal cackles*
Winions: "Typical!" :)
That hurts so much. I LOVE watching him traumatize casper with this epic.
😂 finally got to that part 29:40
Mortius villain arc reaches a climax.
27:07 to be fair, Athena is one of the 3 gods of the greek pantheon that cannot be influenced by Aphrodite, as stated in the Homeric Hymns. The Aphrodite chapter in Homeric Hymns has a whole ass stanza saying Athena, who loves war and teaching men and women, cannot be persuaded or fooled by Aphrodite.
She literally cannot (be affected by) love.
That's that stone cold pragmatism and intelligence. 🫠
I feel like I should know this, but who are the other two?
@@composeyourself3 Artemis, who cannot be tamed by love, and Hestia, who cannot be pleased by the work of love.
Ace queen
@@sup9441 the 3 virgin goddesses /lh
“I’M ODYSSEUS!!”
*We all collectively facepalmed*
😂
I feel Athena partially pushed him into with her words, it got him mad and upset, perhaps if she had been more empathetic she could have talked him out of it.
Hey listen, it's easy to facepalm knowing what comes next, but I sure didn't, back when I first heard that. I was all hyped up like "HELL YEAH, TELL HIM! How does mercy taste, b**ch?!?"
Imagining that gif rn (you know which one)
@@speedy01247 Athena's not really known for empathy. "Goddess of Wisdom, Master of War" in her mind emotions are a pretty poor excuse for a general to make such an unwise call.
"The man who has made me believe villains exist in real life, Mortius!"
- Casper, 2024
That should be how Mortius introduces himself from now on😂
37:57
"It's a bold choice to reveal your name and then let him live."
Mortius when I get you Mortius when I get you
I truly wish I could say I was sorry 😆 It’s a rite of passage, I’m afraid. Thank you for accompanying me on this journey brother. Can’t wait to continue soon 💕
The way you laugh when you see his reaction on Athena's remark. You really enter into your villain saga. Keeg going, I like you this way 😊
When
does a man become a monster~
Evil to foreshadow Ruthlessness lyrics, too
Hey mortius!! Wanted to let you know that a full animatic of the song “there are other ways” was done by anniflamma recently on Mother’s Day! When you get to the Circe saga I HIGHLY recommend it!! Flows so easily and is fantastic as always from them!!
I’m not gonna point out when they happen but Mortius my guy, my dude, if you keep making Significant Faces at the camera every time he says something unintentionally and horrifically ironic, he is GONNA catch on XDDDD
1:00 "Are you in the mood for pancakes" HOW DARE YOU MORTIUS? You are so lucky Casper doesn't know the EPIC fandom association with pancakes. (For those who don't know, "pancakes" is basically a semi-comedic EPIC fandom shorthand for Polites's death because Polites got flattened like a pancake.)
Oh... I just thought it was a random comment! I also thought "BLUE pancakes!", because of Percy Jackson. 💙
There is a frame where as Odysseus namedrops himself where it looks like he holds his own sword to his throat when he goes to sheathe it. He's very much symbolically and visually dooming himself (and his crew) there.
severing his own head, one might say?
@@draeonicyoooo athena
@@draeonicso good 🤙🏽
he severed his own head 😶🌫
It's genuinely worse in the Odyssey, because he gives his name, address, AND his father's name
In ancient Greece, giving away your father's name is equivalent to giving away your social security number. It's a means of very important identification
“I am traumatized” good. That’s the point ^^
FOUL
@@jacobspalace2720 😁
That wo-wo-o-wom sound is the mindscape sound, when it happens, athena is stopping time to talk with someone
Yeah also in remember them when Athena is stoping Oddy there is a clock ticking showing a time stop/warp
Womp womp
Odysseus could have just left but he chose to rub salt into the cyclops wound. That’s not mercy, that’s blind rage.
Thus the line- later on... "The line between naivety and hopefulness is almost invisible"
Neither is it ruthlessness, it’s just pride and maliciousness.
What it is is strait up petty, he's got to get the last word, take the moral high ground.
Hehe, 'blind' rage
It really is. The sad part is that it's fairly evident from how the bridge to that part of the song is set up that the reason he ends up doing that is lashing out at Athena's demand he go back and fight MORE with the first enemy since he first set out to war that has managed to kill some of the men he leads and whose lives are his responsibility. Just so he could finish off - from his point of view needlessly - a foe that's already been rendered unable to hurt them further.
As we learn, he didn't know who the cyclops was, and in her "wisdom" Athena didn't tell him either, just expecting him to obey. Even Zeus did better thatn that in the Horse and the Infant.
Traumatized? You don't know full Epic trauma until The Underworld Saga. THAT traumatized me. 😂
Shhhhhshshsh no spoilers *wiggles my finger in front of your nose*
@@GleamDrawz The Odyssey is just a series of traumatic events for Odysseus, so it's not _that_ much of a spoiler. 🤣
@@disableddragonborn no yeah that checks out
Yeah the "wait" is killing me to see their reaction to that part.
@@carpedm9846 Son of... That reference hurt
"Wolfy, you monster"
YES! Another one with the complete Wolfy experience.
The voice of the crew as Eurylochus is intentional and confirmed by Jorge
Spoilers for Ocean Saga?
I think a lot about the cyclops response and how it makes me feel. Like - a lot of people say that the cyclops killing all of the men and that him calling on his dad/a god is an overreaction (and there is something to be said about the portrayal of the cyclops being younger/kid-ish) but sometimes I think of it as if he was responding to ants or a pest.
Like imagine, you're a kid and you come home to find that a bunch of ants killed your pet. You don't know who killed your pet, just that they were responsible. You are angry and upset and these are *ants*. Then the ants try and offer you a (poisoned) grape. Inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, but maybe you'll go a little easier on the one who made the peace offering. Give him a little longer to live.
And then you pass out because these ants drugged you and you wake *in pain* and *blind*. Of course you're going to call on your big scary god dad - especially if the other adults in your community don't care or believe. And the main ant also doxxed himself so that's helpful.
That makes so much more sense
So, in the myths, the main reason why the main divine villain of the saga was able to directly attack Odysseus, which in turn got him from misfortune to misfortune was because he lost the patronage of Athena. Meaning, had they not fought, him doxxing himself to Polyphemus wouldn't have put him in TOO MUCH danger if he was still under Athena's protection
Taking “My Goodbye” from the perspective of ‘Athena is objectively correct’ is very interesting.
Odysseus is the general of his army, the captain of his fleet. The safety and lives of his men are on him. Until the moment the fleet returns to Ithaca, his job is not done, and the war isn’t “over”. It is part of a general’s duty to make sure as many of his men as possible make it home alive.
The moment Polites died, it unsettled Odysseus and he was unable to act as a general, leading to more deaths. Athena is berating him for losing his nerve over a single soldier’s death, as well as the more obvious flaunting of her instructions and his hubris of thinking they were on the same level. Athena was never Odysseus’ friend, she was his mentor and instructor. The power dynamic is that of a goddess and a mortal, not of two equals.
I’ll push back on the idea that Odysseus’ failures are Athena’s failures because A) she can’t control Odysseus, he has to be able to make his own decisions and face the consequences of those actions, and B) Athena LITERALLY taught him to close his heart, but when he followed the Open Arms mentality against that instruction, it led here.
Final note; I imagine Athena’s mindscape/paused time is a representation of adrenaline in combat, how the world slows down around you.
The problem with that perspective is that Athena is _objectively_ the problem in that scene.
Polyphemus is defeated and crippled. They have the sheeps which they came for. Polyphemus has no way of knowing who attacked him, or ever finding retribution. More importantly, there are other Cyclopsi around, and they are a constant danger to his men. Odysseus' job as king and general is to get his men to safety ASAP, which he is already doing, when Athena interrupts him and tells him he needs to kill Polyphemus, even when doing so would have zero benefit whatsoever. It almost feels like Athena's getting too lost in her "Warrior of the Mind" earning glory in her name and forgetting that he's a king and general with actual subjects and friends he cares for and mourns.
Not to mention coming in and immediately taunting Odysseus over the death of his friends 100% pushes him to act rashly, but that's a different topic.
Athena can be just as much of a shortsighted idiot as Odysseus can be, which is why their dynamic is so interesting
@@hamzafawad9331 She is a goddess though and the gods are exacting, glory in their name gains them power. Not doing what she asked is wrong due to being a god. He failed as her champion and failed as her follower by giving his name. An act of hubris from someone who didn't earn it.
@@hamzafawad9331 The perspective I’m taking where “Athena is objectively right” means that the facts of the universe unequivocally support Athena’s perspective.
“He’s still a threat until he’s dead”; meaning that unless Odysseus killed Polyphemus, there would be some form of consequence exacted on the Icathian fleet. We have no context or information on what that consequence would be, however, likely due to said consequence being related to another deity, which Athena couldn’t interfere with.
I can’t agree that Athena was “objectively” the problem here, even outside of the perspective I’m reading it through. Did she poke at Odysseus being unable to save his friends? Yes, absolutely. Was Odysseus’ decision to taunt Polyphemus by doxxing himself done to spite Athena? Also yes. We can assume whatever we wish about Athena’s methods and motives, but the problem was created between two characters, not simply enacted by one of them.
Just something I noticed after reading these: Athena only asks about her lessons and says “he’s still a threat” before Odysseus dox’s himself, she only brings up his friends in “my goodbye”. I’d say that the choice to reveal his name was ALMOST completely his mistake, though Athena did still have an influence it wasn’t so great to the point that it was really her fault. Idk these are all opinions, maybe I just like Athena🙃
This
Something that was pointed out by a fan, (and Jorge duetted on TikTok confirming this), in the song Warrior of the Mind, when Athena sang the words Warrior of the Mind she held a single note. When Odysseus joined her in the song he did a fancy up and down. The last time they sang Warrior of the Mind, Athena also sang the same way Odysseus did with the up and down. This is supposed to symbolize the two of them forming a bond
Here in My Goodbye, during the final verse, Athena did the up and down with the This is my Goodbye. Next line she only changed the note once with the My Goodbye. And in the final This is My Goodbye, she held a single note again. This symbolizes Athena breaking her friendship with Odyssey.
Mr. Jalapeño is a Genius
Casper: NOOOO!!!
Mortius: Yeah...
Casper: noooooo....
Mortius: yeah...
LET HIM GRIEF PLEASE MORTIUS XD
😊
SPOILERS FOR SAGA 5!!!
21:27
That face... Mortius you-
I CAN READ YOU SO DAMN WELL!!!
SPOILERS for ocean saga
37:58
SIR HOW DARE YOU!?!?!
Yep, that smile has heard things. 😂
Dang Mr. Jalapeño likes to serve pancakes to the audience too much.... what if we're tired of pancakes!!!!
Ahhh, Odysseus reaching out to her as she's leaving. He considered her a friend, after all, and he's just lost Polites. Now she's leaving too, and despite his anger in the moment of his grief, her leaving is still devastating to him.
(Underworld Saga spoilers below)
We know he's terribly affected by her leaving when, in "Monster", Odysseus mentions that he's lost his best friend (Polites), his mentor (Athena), and his mom (Anticlea). Of the many he's lost at this point, those three are the worst losses to the point that when he finally snaps, they're at the forefront of his mind.
I think when Athena mentions the dead friends and then tells him to not be emotional is not like a "Hey, stop crying, you big baby!" But more like "Your a warrior, you should be able to talk about dead people calmly." But then again, its just a theory.
it's just a theory.... a -game- musical theory!
Not sure if it's intentional, but notice how the men carry the sharpened club like a casket... remember them.
[smiles in future knowledge]
(Smiles with evil in future knowledge)
(Cries in future knowledge)
The power and draw of Greek myth is that no characters, gods, demigods, humans, even monsters are without flaws or a sympathetic perspective. Percy Jackson and Epic capture that concept so well, there’s a reason these myths have persisted for over a thousand years.
Except hestia, hestia is bestia
@@omarsalem1219What about Hades?
@@angelinafouquet7826everyone fears death, yet he's one of the chillest dudes ever.
@@codyraugh6599 Fr
Every time there is Forshadowing in these duo videos and Mortius is just either dying inside or containing the villanous glee and Caspers pain to come, i love it.
30:35
"Him saying 'you're alone' really struck a nerve with Athena"
You are correct. I remember on one of the videos where Jorge was explaining the importance of silences to evoque emotion he explained that it did affect Athena, and when he showed the script he has of the lyrics you can see that it says: "Athena is hurt". So yeah!
"This hurts Athena" 😢😢😭😭
*Athena will remember this*
Lol and I keep thinking of Athena Complex where she keeps being rejected by Poseidon and generally not looked upon as a woman by the other gods who she wants to have look at her that way.
8:22 It is confirmed by Jay that the men are his main characteristic, yes! He gets their support while singing which speaks volumes of his connection with the crew in itself. He has and represents their voice. Its nice.
29:02
Another thing to break your hearts, or make you more pissed at Athena: Since gods can summon their own backing vocals, you _have_ to consider that Athena chose the people's voices that'd fuck him up the most. She really wanted to make it sting.
Of course Wolfy chose to put Polites, the Infant, Penelope and Telemachus among the dead soldiers that Polyphemus killed which are actually confirmed to be there, but it's not hard to believe that'd she'd choose to do that tbh.
I also like to consider this song as the moment Odysseus finally processes the deaths that just happened, which I believe Wolfy captures really well. By witnessing his mentor and one of his oldest friends abandon him, with the voices of the dead crew going with her, he reaches out in hopes that they won't leave despite the harsh words they just threw at each other. He's already beginning to regret, but the only thing he can do as watch as yet another one of his friends leaves him. And then he gets transported back to the real world, feeling empty inside.
Casper is so good at suffering, you have to give it to him. AND he still remains vigilant for details!
Also in warrior in the mind, Odysseus says “goddess and man bestest of friends”
"we'll see where it ends..."
A thing about greek gods ist that they embody humans in their most extreme aspects good and bad (mostly bad), which is frequently showcased in ancient myths, if you look at them on a metaphorical level. So gods are actually very flawed. Aphrodite is very vain and jealous, Athena is prideful, Zeus is, well, Zeus, etc.
I feel like it's a little harsh to say that what happened with the cyclops is entirely on Odysseus🤔
While it's definitely a big mess and as the leader of his men they are his responsibility, it's important to remember that no one had any idea they were in fact invading a home until Polyphemus showed up - in the modern day we think of sheep as primarily livestock, but wild sheep are/were fairly abundant in the areas around the Mediterranean. Hunting somewhere with abundant fauna to replenish food supplies would have been standard pratice.
Rather ironically, the only real mistake Odysseus made was not questioning why the Lotus Eaters weren't making use of the food source themselves sooner. Instead of questioning them, he chose to trust Polites and accept the help of directions with open arms. Athena warned him, as we remember, and while she understands nothing about the human condition, she knows gods. And when dealing with gods and monsters, humanity is weakness.
"only real mistake" he told his name and what kingdom he was from to the hostile Cyclops ( race known for their association with the gods). He can bring instead names of polites or other fallen comrades, but nooo
he needed to stick his name in there so the cyclop would remember him as well ((i am your darkest moment) oh shut up) an how does this ended)))
Athena's pride made her abandon her student and friend in need, Odysseus' pride doomed 500+ people. they are both right and wrong at the same time, and if one of them approached the situation and their conflict with open arms, it wouldn't have happened, but they both are stubborn idiots and with that comes the consequences
That is exactly my thought. A lot people blame most of the tragic things on Odysseus but I feel like it is more often a bunch of minor events that ultimately lead up to the tragedies. 😢😢 Of course there are things that Odysseus could or should have done differently, but so do some other characters. At the end of the day, I don’t think we can really put the blame on anyone, but that might just be me……..😶😢
@@bbgrl-l1s You mistook what I was talking about - I'm going to assume it was accidental instead of on purpose so you could rant :)
The only mistake Odysseus made when it came to what he came for - finding food for his men - was not questioning the Lotus Eaters and instead trying to face the world with open arms. Unfortunately, the sheep unbeknowst to him were not wild and instead belonged to a monstrous offspring of a god, and leaning on humanity doesn't work with either monsters or gods.
Yes, he did end up doxxing himself afterwards, but that was outside the scope of my topic, as the consequenses of his mistake - the deaths of Polites and six others - had already happened, making his outburst at Athena's demands and its eventual results a separate discussion entirely.
I disagree on the lotus eaters point, the lotus is addictive, they don’t take advantage of other food sources because they have enough lotus to sustain them and are addicted enough to not eat anything else
@@ezracohen6020 You have a very good point there and I'm inclined to agree with you. However, Odysseus DOES question their reasoning once in the cave, which highligts that he could have done so earlier as well, as part of his due diligence. But he was convinced by the kindness they showed even after he'd refused the lotus to do things Polites' way and not even ask, regardless of whether it would have ended up helpful or not.
The real tragedy there is that while Odysseus trusting Polites' feelings on the matter and suppressing his war-honed paranoia for once was the wrong call when heading to an island inhabited by cyclops, it WOULD likely have been the right move had they found a place inhabited by humans instead.
11:55 "no matter what, it [the first arrow being fired] is still on Odysseus" ... you could say that if he wants all the power then he has to take all the blame...
Athena: Your dead friends can attest
Casper: WHAT THE ACTUAL BLEEP
"After all you're....Just a man!"
one could say that was quite the EPIC moment.
I've always noticed in this animatic of my goodbye that Odysseus is literally drowning in the choices he's made, drowning in the people he's affected. Its a good transition into the ocean saga and how drowning or fear of drowning can be shown in different ways through the entire first act. Not to mention the fact that he's reaching out to a god to save him from his own choices which i would assume is common with Odysseus (I haven't seen much from the odyssey or read anything from percy Jackson).
I have read the odyssey and yeah that’s pretty accurate, he basically relies on lies and gods to get through his journey in the original
Him: I'm not seeing my boy polites again-
Me: .... *Sweats profusely*
Teagan Early is the voice of Athena, she could sing the ingredients on a shampoo bottle to me 100 times and id ask for 100 more, also the idea of taking Polites headband and making it part of Odysseus costume in a stage version would be so impactful if the color of the headband wasn't used anywhere else, only that one item.
And then taking it off at then of the Underworld Saga 😭.
@@Cataly_ely…wait what if that color then shows up again later on *Telemachus’* costume? O_O
Yeah if anyone brought back polites to emotionally torment odysseus itd be fucked up , but thats not athena's domain, those are more visions like how zeus conjured a vision of adult Astyanax(the baby)
POSSIBLE SPOILER
damn I cannot wait for him to react to the underworld
I hugged my mom tight when I saw her yesterday. I hugged my coworkers and friends, which caught them all off guard. When asked why I did it, I said I went on an odyssey of sorts.
LMAO I LOVE THIS
" Im not gonna see my boy polities anymore.."
... Underworld saga. 😘🤓
Odysseus taking Polites' headband to wear it reminds me of Aragorn doing the same with Boromir's arm bracers at the end of the Fellowship of the Ring movie. I love that sort of character detail.
Greek mythology nerd here 30:36
Fun facts in Greek mythology the reason Athena is alone is because she sees relationships of any kind as a waste of time due to her being the goddess of Strategic war and mostly focusing on that aspect of herself as well as her other domains one of her most known epithets is "the Virgin Athena" because she's never been in a relationship at all and her relationships with the other gods are mutch more co-worker type relationships
But although she's never been in any relationship of any kind there are moments in The mythology with people such as odysseus where she actually started to form a platonic mentors relationship with but stops her self from developing any more deeper emotions because they're a waste in our eyes
And just to add another fun fact on top of this she's one of the only God's that cannot be influenced by Aphrodite
"she sees relationships of any kind as a waste of time" This is an interpretation, not a fact. But what is a fun fact is that there's pottery in which she is carrying Herakles to Zeus for his apotheosis and the pose depicted (Athena leading Herakles holding his arm) is the same pose as is typically used to indicate a man taking his wife.
Just to give a bit of context Jorge has confirmed what Mortius was saying at 33:54 those almost flashing and distorted sounds is Athena using one of her abilities called Quick Thought where she can pull people into a dimension where they can talk instantly like we saw in “Warrior of the mind” and “My Goodbye” so this is her pulling him in and out of Quick Thought.
I think the people on the background of 'just a man' are meant to represent the human connections he has. Athena is very much a cold and rational person, willing to sacrifice any pawn she sees fit and Odysseus is not and Athena sees that as something that holds him back from reaching his full potential. It really reflects the differences between the humans and the gods.
Yes! There is this really cool sentiment I read online in the Percy Jackson Fandom: It's obvious that there are differences between humans and gods. But it is not, that humans are basically gods with missing divinity...But that gods are like humans, just with missing humanity.
MORTIUS. Without spoilers - "it's a bold choiced to reveal your name and let him live"!? HOW DARE YOU (I love it)
What most dont notice is that when athena makes the high notes in warrior of the mind, she start as one clear high note but then when she duos with Odisseus she start making a kind of scale so Odisseus can follow, but in the last goodby she start with the scale but then, when she realice she is no longer his mentor she goes back to the singular clear high note.
Odysseus: * tells cyclops his whole name etc *
Cyclops: “Ima snitch to daddy! :D”
Jorge did confirm that Eurylochus is the voice of the crew as he often sings with the men whenever he is in a song. If you listen carefully, you can hear him as the leading voice in the chorus of Odysseus's men (I don't know if that makes sense but I hope it does). This is a big part of his character as you will see later on in the story, but basically, think of him as the personification of the crew's thoughts.
“I am traumitized”
as you should be.
“And uh, what’s Polites holding?” You ####!!
I feel like Mortius is just thinking. - Don't smile. Don't laugh. Don't react. Don't give anything away.
Did you notice the way Athena sings both "Warrior of the MIND" and "Goodbye" in a mirrored way?
She starts cold and sings it straight. Then she meets Odysseus, who is a little bit more emotional and she adopts is lively "Mi-hind" version - which she also does here "Goodby-hye". Right until the last time she says it: just a stretched version, no emotion left.
Symbolic of how they’ve grown close, to sharing Odysseus’ riff. Then grown apart, so Athena goes back to her extended note
I remain delighted by the meta of this being the first time Odysseus is actually named in the musical
actually in terms of the arrow and who fires first, it likely is odysseus. hes particularly known for his archery skills. something that will come into play later, tho to avoid spoilers thats all ill say on it.
2:16 … poor Argos. Tragedy after tragedy.
Wolfy after the Remember Them Animatic: “What if I’m the monster?”
The sound you hear when Odysseus enters the mindscape with Athena is what Jorge calls as Athena’s signature move “Quick Thought”. This is exclusive to Athena only and is considered her “superpower”(?) I guess you could say?
The high halting noises that play when Athena enters are the sound indicators for a power called 'Quick Thought' - something exclusive to Athena. Alongside the slowed-down ticking sounds, the sounds are used for when she pulls Odysseus into a kind of other dimension, where he and she can have strategy meetings in a split second mid-battle. This skill is a part of what makes Odysseus so formidable to his enemies, and links back to Athena being the 'goddess of wisdom, master of war.' Look back at The Infant and The Horse and you'll hear the ticking there too. That's because Athena herself is present in the sacking of Troy, even though she doesn't appear directly on screen.
I am TRAUMATIZED
Well ruthlessness is mercy
Upon ourselves
Couple things on the art side: the "sketchy style" has a lot to do with these being "animatics." Animatics are usually used during the movie-making process between storyboarding and actual blocking of animation. Once the story is pinned down, the animatic gives the artists a sense of time and place. They work well for songs like these because you get all the characters and emotions, but a fully fleshed out animation would take so much more time.
And Athena's design here is so brilliant because she's associated with owls in myth, and you can really see the owlishness in the shape of the helmet on her face and the way she turns her head all the way around when she looks over her shoulder!
I love how the artist gives athena these subtly owl-like features. its simple yet so effective. giving her that touch of non-humanness in contrast to odysseus, who is "just a man" (or put another way, all too human).
The one thing i love about this musical is that everytime you relisten to the songs, theres a chance you learn something new.
8:55 yes it’s true! Jay said it himself,which i find pretty cool
21:28
Casper “yeah, I’m not seeing my boy Polites again”
Mortius -tight lip restraint from exposing the painful truth he’s going to see soon-
29:45 “What’s Polities holding?”
MORTIUS YOU EVIL SON OF A-! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
"Survive" and "Remember Them" are such _perfect_ audio-storytelling, like you *Feel* Odysseus' absence in "Survive" (after Polites dies you no longer hear Odysseus sing, despite the crew begging for guidence)
Then the beginning of "Remember Them" drives home the fact that Odysseus is in shock/dissociating with the disortion in Eurylochus' voice when he tries (4 times!!) to get Odysseus' attention
Side note, I love how the fandom decided Odysseus keeps Polites' headband
Ive seen some artists have Odysseus use Polites' headband as a headband, a hair-tie, an arm-band, a forearm-wrap
Like, its not even a headcanon to me at this point
Fun fact for anyone who finds this but Odysseus’ favored weapon was the bow.
"It's a bold choice to reveal your name and then let him live" *evil snickering*
You should definitely check out the voice of Athenas, TE/MO, own work it's honestly amazing but one of her songs ripped my heart out it was so beautiful and sad
Odysseus doxxing himself at the end of remember them has the same vibe as Tony Stark doxxing himself in Iron man 3 and i xant unsee it 😂
“Im not seeing polities again…” how i wish you were right about that….
21:20
Look at this villain being disappointed you're getting to the acceptance stage, l love the bastardness.
Mortius just sitting there, already having heard the Underworld Saga, trying to contain his spoilers.
Now that I thought about it long enough I don't think Athena when says "your dead friends can atest, put your emotions aside" is meant to be intentionally cruel, i think she's trying to point out a fault in Odysseus's actions by going "Hey all those soldiers that you just lost would agree with me thst you let your emotions get the better of you, if you hadn't frozen up there because of your sentimentality to Polites then more of them would probably be alive." Which is still a terrible thing to say so fresh after it happened but I can see why she brings it up and even words it that way. If she as his mentor isn't reaching him then surely being backed up by people he presumably seems to care about the opinion of more would make sense. It's divide and conquer, it's strategy. 'Odysseus can be as emotional as he wants about this but logically I'm is right here and even people he loves would agree with me' isn't that surprising of an angle to go about her lecture.
Do I think it was bad timing and still a terrible thing to say to a person who just experienced heavy losses? Absolutely, what the heck. But I also can see that Athena while angry wasn't just taking cheap shots, she's taking strategic ones.
29:07 It just occurred to me that the FIRST time Athena uses her background vocal powers it’s to further traumatize Odysseus 😂
7:46, they are not Trojan men. They were fighting the Trojans
At the begining of remember them around when it says "mark my words now...", you can hear "we're up, we're off, and away we go" in soft gitar
In Greek mythology, Polyphemus is not a kid, he’s a famous cyclops and the only one who’s Poseidon’s son
OH! I'm so dumb, Athena looks like that BECAUSE she has been given more owl like features😅😅
I like how all these reactions by far are just Mortius, Jorge, and the animators bullying you 😭✋🏾
Casper: I’m not seeing my boy Polites again
Me: Well… I’m not gonna spoil anything actually :D
I do really like how this Athena design makes her face almost look like a mask, like a constant poker face, the Goddess of battle strategy gives nothing away.
The thing i really wish someone would point out with remember them, is the piano when Athena shows up. Because when Odysseus says no, the music stops for a moment, then Athena's piano comes in, playing all the notes from her theme, but fast and chaotic.
To me it feels as if Athena's stunned and her mind is racing, from both the audacity to say no, and the stupidity in not finishing the cyclops. Like, she tells him how to avoid future problems, and he refuses, and she's like, "No? The hell do you mean no?!"
I JUST STARTED CRYING BC I NOTICED POLITES AND HAD TO BE LIKE “hold on, is that fricking POLITES??” and kept watching. I’ve never thrown my iPad so fast and started crying even more when mortius pointed out that HE WAS HOLDING THE MOTHER FLIPPLING CHILD IN HIS ARMS WHO ARE BOTH DEAD AND ATHENA PULLS UP JUST A MAN, I’m am not ok, you are getting my $20 therapy bill.
HEY CYCLOPS, I LIVE IN ITHICA MY ADDRESS IS THE BIG CASTLE ON THE LEFT OF THE BAKERY, AND MY NAME IS ODDYCEUS, (Might as well add 8n that he has a wife and child while hes at it)
Oh and I have a nice wife named penalope and a grown son telemacus. Visit anytime u want bye!!!😂😂😂😂
Edit I can't spell
I love the second to final part of My Goodbye now because while the first verse reads/sounds like Athena in control and Odysseus lashing out after that it just reads like the two of them lashing out, the way Athena speaks is like she's just trying to hurt the one mortal she has gotten closest to.
I had to relisten to the first saga multiple times before it hit me that Oddysseus sort of seals his fate the moment he starts questioning Zeus. Even though he follows through, he starts to question if the gods are right… And that’s when he starts to falter.
Jay said in a video that because Eurylochus is the 2nd in command and the voice of the crew, the choir of the crew behind is vocals is in fact intended to be his instrument, just like Odysseus's guitar, Athena's piano, Polities' harps, and Penelope's viola.
Another note: The line "let's grab the sheep and away we go" is not saying what the animator interpreted it as. It's a reference to the original Odessey, where I believe there was a boulder functioning as a door and blocking the entrance to the cave that was too large for Odysseus and his crew to move, so they needed to leave the cyclops alive so he could pull open the stone blocking the doorway. The way they escaped the cave was by tying themselves to the sheep's bellies when polyphemus let them out to graze the next morning, and, because he couldn't see, he didn't notice that they were grabbing the sheep and hanging on underneath them. So "'Let's grab the sheep" is referencing that, and it's said so quietly because they are sneaking.
“Odysseus is Nobody, and his best is now also no-body.”-My boyfriend just came to me with this that popped into his head and I hate him for saying this and I hate myself for laughing.
You have remember that the first person Athena ever killed was her childhood best friend and/or lover Pallas by sheer accident. She carried that guilt ever since and hardened her heart. Athena even changed her name to "Pallas Athena" to forever remember her friend. Their story echoes Odysseus's loss of his childhood friend Polites. So when she's lashing out here, it's definitely at least //part// painful flashbacks.
24:04 my belief is that Athena is pushing Odysseus away on purpose to protect him from possible future retaliation for the cyclop's indent. She kinda setting up the scene as she ordered Odysseus to do what he did and is now mad that hes refusing further orders and is tossing him away like he is rubbish. Who would be a bigger target for revenge? the hitman that was tossed away after refusing to go with it or the one that ordered the hit
To Jay's defence, he is following the story of the Odyssey, so it's not his fault that Polites dies, but it is his fault for making us love him so much
Polites dies later in the odyssey
remember athena is a goddess, and odysseus just disregarded a direct order here ("don't"). which also was a wise one. athena has all the right to be angry at him.
37:57 I SEE WHAT U ARE DOING HERE MSTER MORTIUS
We are being broken just as odysseus is being broken 🥹😭
I'm placing this comment on Mortius' video too, but a little Greek insight to Remember Them.
In Greek belief, for someone to pass over the River Styx and make it to the Underworld, they have to pay the Ferryman, Charon. That payment is typically buried with their body.
There wasn't time to bury the fallen men. Odysseus knew his men and Polites would have no afterlife. He knew there was nothing he could do, except.. Remember Them.