Turbocharging a 420cc Drift Trike
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 เม.ย. 2016
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In this video, we finally turbocharge the 420cc Predator engine on our drift trike! Unfortunately, we find out that turbochargers and carburetors don't mix. EFI coming soon!
Thanks for Watching!
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wow its weird going this far back. it never felt like anything has changed but jumping back so far shows how much the video, audio, and editing has improved so much.
Foreal tho. They look weird af
"exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens, and you go faster".-Jeremy Clarkson
M Kefer greatest man of all time
200th like!
Get er done !!! Whooooo doggy. MURICA!
@@sree4909 225th
@@fischlimonade 350!
Y’all were so simple and unenthusiastic back in the day😂😂
Brooo I was just thinking that same thing😭😂
I think i liked them better this way but the way they are now is ok too
@@Shark_Theory why?
@@Shark_Theory same. i prefer this
I'm two years late, but I absolutely love these build log-like videos. The videos that show the plans, building, and of course lots of tests are my favorite. I feel like I'm really along for the ride with you guys!
Needs Boost, mixture, and ammeter gauges!! And I think you can run 2 charging coils at once behind the flywheel!
+CarsandCameras
So it isn't perfect. That didn't stop us from riding it!
If the turbo doesnt work with the 420cc you could put it on the 670 :D
+CarsandCameras do a blow off valve pleaseeeee.WUUUUUUUSH CHi Chi chi chi...
+CarsandCameras Do a video on what happens to an engine when you throw a rock into the turbo :P
+Borut Korosec you cant put a blowoff valve on a draw through carb it will have gas coming out with the air unless they go with efi
sorry i knew something didnt add up ;)
You need to get a work bench or bike lift guys! Your knees and backs will love you for it! Much nicer to work on,easier all round. Maybe on of those pump up jobs from harbour freight?
Andrew Wilson oh yeah, they need it.
I made a turbo work with the carb on my gokart with a 390cc engine. I just put the carb on the air filter side of the turbo and raised the fuel tank a few inches, works perfect without EFI. Currently running 0,9 bar of boost pressure
What did you do with the jetting in the carb?
Make that guy with the country accent say "Propane and propane accessories"
GRIP Godt Damnit Bobby
He is the voice of Hank Hill.
Yeahhhhhhhh doggy
add intercooler, E85, choo choo noise blow off valve, direct injection and an ECU :P
+Schwaehn Someone watches MCM, haha!
mrkthmn
maaad
haltech elite should work :)
+Schwaehn maaaaad. glad to see someone who watches that as well.
Been watching a bit of MCM have we? 😎
This showed up on my feed for some reason, thought it was a new video then I realized. Wow how y'all have changed!!
you guys inspired me to start building machines! and fixing them! one of my favorite channels on youtube to this very day! keep on doing what you do and makin videos!
Carb ALWAYS goes before the turbo, otherwise the turbo will just push air back through the jets. yes you can use turbo's with a carb. Btw fuel mix needle needs to be turned a ways.
No they Don't
+Travis Piper roadkill put the carb after the turbo
+Travis Piper not always but its normally always easier.
+Travis Piper as far as i know you can do both, but, for after the turbo you need to pressurize the float bowl so this doesnt happen.... im guessing they didnt do that.
@Fabio Spiesanzotti you mean after the turbo.... fuck even Holley make turbo carbs that go post turbo. You just need to pressurise the fuel system higher than the turbo boost pressure. Same shit needs to be done with EFI cars. Thats why there is such a thing as rising fuel pressure regualtors.
You need to put your boost From turbo to every "hole" in your carboretor and add fuel pump and regulator for fuel or put turbos boost in fuel tank. You need to do it so that turbo blows in carboretor!😀
+CasardCameras
+MrSankari100 That wont work. you either need to place the whole carb in a bell connected to the turbo pipe via a vaccum line so it runs at boost pressure and face feeding/tuning issues or loose idling as a whole.
+Côme Thiburs You'd also need to pressurize the fuel tank,
otherwise boost will blow fuel back up the fuel line.
Guys, using a turbo to SUCK through a carb WILL
work. Look at a 62 Corvair Spyder. Turboed,
and had a carb. From the factory.
Using the Blow method, you do need to pressurize
the whole system, including the tank.
(There are fuel regulators that will compensate for
boost, on turbo cars, but that may be out of your
range. You'd still need a fuel pump.)
EFI, here we come!
steve
exact steve. forgot the pressure regulator.
I dont think EFI will improve the power tho, to this point only running methanol or E85 ethanol will improve the engine output, more 95-98 gas in that thing will only add detonation risks and grenade the valvetrain.
huh? 95-98 "gas" will not add detonation risks..............the higher the octane the LESS flammable and MORE resistant to detonation a fuel is..............not the other way around, boy racers think that putting 98 or 104 in their buzzbox gives it more power, it actually gives it less power UNLESS the engine has higher compression and/or advanced timing to take advantage of the higher octane, at which point the car will not run on lower octane fuel without detonating. If I put 91 in my ute it would be a bad day, because 95 is the minimum it can run on, not that it matters to me because I wouldn't put 91 in my lawnmower let alone a car ;) (in Australia regular unleaded, 91, is garbage filthy shit, premium fuels, 95/98/100, are MUCH cleaner)
Love your determination......keep it up. I built turbine engines out of turbos 18 years ago. 143,00 RPM's out of my HT1. 48 pounds of boost. Over 200PSI of fuel pressure. It was a beast. This was on kerosene and 10% gasoline. I have not maintained the website but someone is still hosting it. If the CarsandCamera guys want me to publish it on thier space, I will. I have not touched the site in 18 years. I am so proud of the site. I did all the web development myself.
+CarsandCameras I love the videos! I always wake up HOPING you guy upload a vid. I love the work you guys do, as well!
Please get a efi kit! Its not that expensive, you can run closed loop and it will tune itself, AND IT ROCKS WITH A TURBO!😎
Build an enclosure for the carb, use the turbo pressure to pressurize the enclosure and you should be fine. Linkage will be a little tricky though.
You guys ROCK!!! Not to mention some of the better drift trike drivers I have seen .... to bad the TURDO didnt work out very well on stage 1 ... keep the good video's coming!
I am loving this. Where were you (and TH-cam) in the 1970's!!
Can't wait to watch part "too" with EFI. Ya!!
biggest problem with that carburetor is its designed to work in a narrow air fuel ratio. as the boost increases, the air imbalances the mixture making it lean. efi compensates for the variable ratio. sadly, small engine carburetors are not designed to operate in a wide power band like a car carburetor.
it is infact safe to boost after adding the fuel instead of before, but the turbo needs to be mounted directly to the engine with as little travel disance as possible. that long intake pipe is what is causing the rough idle
Pretty cool, would love to see it with working EFI! Dont give up!
Sitting back, chilling out at work & marathon watching C&C. Good times.
you could run a small alternator off of a Kubota tractor and run a belt from it to the live axle to charge the battery for the EFI
what you need is a boost and afr gauge. Get a china 26mm mikuni and keep the draw thru setup. You should be able to properly tune it between 11 to 11.7 afr. If you get it working right you will start to see frost on the inlet pipe and maybe the turbo housing. The atomizing of the fuel works as a intercooler, and it should make good power. I'd also keep the boost under 8 psi.
Cool builds. Mad respect from Washington NC
man, going back and watching these old videos, you guys have definitely gotten a lot more polished on your presentations. I don't miss the white-afro, but to each his own.
You have to incase the whole carb in the charge pipe so it has equal pressure inside and out.
....when you're trying to get stuff done around the house, and the turbo install pops up.......
thanks for killing my productivity.
I had the same though. Lol
dudes got a fairlady !! thumbs up great video
I'm loving what y'all do!
also if you pack the pipes with sand you bend them without them crushing and no pie cuts are needed
Wow! Thanks I never heard of that. That's a great tip
Puffalupagus360 you can also tape off your pipe end fill it with water and freeze it the ice will keep it from crushing when you bend it as well
Wearing a t-shirt and shorts while grinding. Savage
I thought I recognised your name!
You need to do some builds it would be sweet
he will never finish it!
You don’t?
Not really I’m 15 and do that also weld with no jacket.
ha guys,I'm just funning I dig the stuff you two are doing! Please don't stop! Dano.
I've got the same 210 MP welder, good little machine!
lol....love that poor dog you guys torment every test drive
He's like "hey what's up guys"
Love the videos. I would like to suggest maybe switching to 2 stroke engines. Lets see what you can do with them.
I watch all of there videos and they are awesome people
This shit is bad ass in my opinion you guys are awesome upset that I’m just now seeing you guys on TH-cam hope you two keep doing things like this
Draw through setups are perfectly fine. You just need to either get some larger jets, or drill out the ones that are in there.
+Jon's Garage they say in the video that they drilled out the jets. the problem their having is really do to the lack of control of the carburetor. A gfi will definitely help
I must have missed that part.
only if you guys added a turbo to the 670 who knows what will happen great builds guys!!
This was extremely helpful thanks. Already got a carb from a 400cc bike on my 250cc, but was considering about turboing the bike. Trying to find ways to increase hp and/or ft-lb. Thank you!
You guys have come so far in just 2 years.
Yea if you use a carb on a small engine it needs to go through the intake or have a pressured system
charge pipe is way to long! put the turbo in draw threw setup but put the compressor blowing directly in to the motor. will have to make longer exhaust to turbo but with so long of charge pipe fuel is not staying atomized into cylinder. draw threw does work even though it's hard on the turbo. Pontiac trans am turbo's used this setup with mixed success.
Centrifugal force will separate the gas completely out of the air and stick it to the sides of the tube. Need to put the carb after the turbo the piston squish is what atomizes the air fuel mixture.
Pontiac Trans Am were very successful at it,the draw back was it was a 301 V8 lacking cubes instead of the low comp 350ci.Trev NZ
@@Thrive-Off-Grid That's not entirely right but who gives a monkeys....Trev NZ
@@trevinskiking2165 actually it is Ive done this in a lab
@@trevinskiking2165 This is how BMW is getting rid of humidity in the air to make it more dense
Cool, always wanted to see the walking paths in the hamptons
Wish I could play with you guys. Sure looks like fun. I have not read thru thee comments, but in the olden days the '57 Ford 312 w/ Paxton supercharger Ford put the carb into a box. The entire carb was contained so the pressure was the same all over...except down he venturi. This gives the same conditions that the carb would experience except with a lot heavier atmosphere. Thats the physics as I understand it. It is a handy place to attach awater/alcohol injector for detonation...also keeps the fuel/air mixture down stream from the turbo.
Carburetors can handle boost just fine. You just need a fuel pump to overcome the charge pressure.
And an intercooler so the turbo will actually affect the power.
yup for whatever amount of boost pressure you need that much more fuel pressure going to the carb, or the turbo pressure will just blow the fuel back into the fuel bowl and the fuel tank A blow off value / waste gate also would help a lot, when you spool the turbo then let off all that boost pressure has no where to go, making it hard to go back to idle until the pressure is gone.. it could be opening the butterfly in the carb when this happens.
+ted clubber lang not necessarily boost is boost wreathe its hot or cold, now an inter cooler would definitely make more power but on a small motor like this i would doubt it would be a significant gain with what i would assume is not a lot of boost pressure. inter coolers really get hand around 9 psi. Plus with a suck through carburetor set up like they have now the atomized fuel will cool the intake air/fuel charge a tremendous amount. people out in the salt flats tend to run this style set up because the fuel cools the charge so efficiently that they can drop the inter cooler from the build and make the same and sometimes even more power due to the lower restrictiveness of the intake set up, and it doubles as weight reduction
+john Doe (mr. 250) i 100% agree with you an inter cooler is a must but i also think have control over boost is good, and no matter what she anit going to do much without more fuel pressure lol
+ted clubber lang no, this small turbo does not need an intercooler.
You gotta put a boost gauge on that thing! :D
That turbo sound was mmmm so good
That beast could use a wastegate ;) Loving these tiny turbo motors XD
draw through turboed carb is fine and is actually the best way to keep your air/fuel mixture correct. blow through like you had it at first will be either super lean at the top end or super fat at the bottom end because most carbs have to reference of pressure only flow. you also cant use blow through because you dont have a fuel pump. the air is just back feeding the fuel lines. you just need a better path between the turbo and the cylinder head and that draw through will work fine. with all of those pie cuts being welded with a mig welder and all the funky angles i bet it has barely any flow until higher rpms. if you had a tight radius bend made with a tubing bender and correct/straight flanges it would idle a lot better.
Either way. sweet vids
a c Do we need to add an intercooler fot draw through setup like this? BOV maybe?
@@muhammadsyafiq7760 No intercoolers on draw through. Only water/meth injection upstream of the carb would work. Well an intercooler WOULD work. But it isnt a very good idea due to fuel condensing on the insides.
Put it back the way it was and put the turbo and EFI on the 670 and make it even more ridiculous!
thinking the same thing
That is both genius and awesome.
Wanted to turbo my 420cc pred on my gokart, now i dont, thanks guys. Looking forward to seeing where the trike goes from here! Good luck!
So basically you put the carb where turbo intake would normally be and, so the fuel-air mix would be sucked through the turbo and into the chamber? And besides rough start couldnt you set idle at a higher rpm to help the cause of rough idle and startup? any feedback is helpful thanks
thats what i was thinking too
He's like Harland Williams, Hank Hill, and cousin Eddie all rolled into one.
Here is something you might try. Mount the turbo where the exhaust is flowing through one side of it, and the other side will bring fresh, compressed air into the carburetor. A bigger jet would help performance. A carburetor can be used with good results, but hey, I would love to see you install fuel injection system on one. I didn't even know they made one. Love the videos.
This might be a channel I stick around to keep watching ;) Leggooo
I would suggest putting the carb on the intake side of the turbo, not the outlet. Carbs don't like to be blown through. The bowl vent needs to see the same pressure as the mouth of the Venturi, and that's not possible on a blow through set up.
+Kenneth Cohagen The guys in this video clearly dont know how a carburettor works...
yeah you're right.to control the air going inside the engine it must be on the intake manifold not on the exhaust instead.
@@deeznuts4314 lol are you dumb
That turbo would be a TDO25. Little tiny earring of a turbocharger
You can run a turbo/carb, by having the carb feeding into the compressor intake. It is difficult to get the fuel/air mix right though. And you would need a rather large carb.
1980 Pontiac Trans Am Turbo had a 4 barrel electronic port carb. There is something to piggy back!
the carb prolly need a bigger jet? since more air is coming in, it leans itself under boost? just a thought..
you could put in a jet that would be suitable for the boost but then it wouldn't idle because there would be to much fuel at idle
+Jacob Waters I don't know what carb is used in this particular application, but usually carbs have a few different ways of adjusting the mixture. If you change the main jet you mostly affect 3/4 to wot. 1/4 to 3/4 are mainly influenced by the needle and idle to 1/4 by the idle jet and a screw you can adjust. If you would only swap the main jet it would have basically no effect on idle.
instead of a blow through system, you should with the carb to before the turbo for a draw through system eliminates most of the modifications need to be done to the carb. also an electric fuel pump and turbo pressure regulator would keep the engine from leaning out
No if you payed attention to the video he said “we jetted the carb.”
andrew faivor they are using a suck through system. But thats poor for tuning, i'm curious what mods you mean? Only mod u neen on blow through setup, is to pressurize the bowl on the carb to help pushing fuel up the jet
u guys have plenty of free time
+Nicholi Alexander Not usually. I was just on spring break that week.
+CarsandCameras just wait until you have kids, then you will not even know what that free time business is all about.
***** Haha, I'm sure.
you could run a secondary belt, if you can find one small enough, and strap it to a box mounted motorcycle magneto to sove the charging issue
Carbs and turbos did fine in the days before EFI. Not as efficient as EFI, but functional. The complete carb needs to be enclosed in a sealed box when doing a “blow through” setup.
Bet yer neighbors just love you :_)
Next video "Fuel injecting the drift trike!"
Such a critic from the beginig ike u the man
you could build a pressure box around the carb so that its in equalized pressure? But there will be tons of work tuning needed to be done but thats the simpler design. fuel injection wise just grab a single honda injector and a mega squirt and put a magnet and a reed switch to get your trigger from the fly wheel.
Build a metal air box with the carb in its original location.. but INSIDE the air box. Then pressurize the entire box.
thanks
Beat me to it. just need a blow thru carb setup by equalizing pressure outside of carb
Seems like it'd be a nightmare sealing all the linkages
why not a draw thru carb?
Gasoline running through a hot turbo, what could go wrong? BOOM!!!!
+Sailing with SV Wild Hare, actually in theory it should act much the same way as putting fuel injectors before a supercharger, all it does is help cool the ambient temperature and also in theory, helps atomize the fuel more. so all things considered, the most wrong it could do is like Ike had mentioned was either turbo lag or idle issues... other than that, at part or full throttle it should run like a champ as it did.
+Alex Garland you not going to get the same kind of the temperature out of a supercharger that you will a turbo and pre ignition or pre combustion problems. A turbocharger with oil only cooling and a supercharger would run at completely different temperatures.
It's more about cooling the air that gets heat soaked from the exhaust turbine. I understand it doesn't get the same heat soak but it does get some. So the fuel/air mix should help counter any heat soak from the exhaust turbine and the shear heat increase from compressing gases. Also checking spark plug gap wouldn't hurt.
+Alex Garland you go ahead and get on a homemade go kart with a high temperature poorly cooled Turbo and carbureted gasoline pumped into it less than a foot behind your head. hope your theory is better than mine.
+Sailing with SV Wild Hare okay, will do, nice chat 😊
ceep up the good week
Dangit Bobby!
put a pulley behind clutch on the output shaft and mount an alternator right behind the seat! charging problem solved!
I was about to say that
exactly what I was thinking they have a least and 1 1/2 behind that clutch it looks like
I'm peanut butter and jealous
Ha
Mini alternator,belt driven will get you plenty of juice, efi a must for a mini turbo.
when doing a blow thru carb(like it was set up first) you need to equlize fuel pressure with the boost level, if the carb will hold a higher fuel pressure level
blow through carb with boost referencing
Do a v8 go cart would be sick
GOOD WORK !
it is cool just for the effort alone, get her done guys!!
+Tom Palmer thanks. lol
what if you put two of those on the V-twin?
lol that is real boost thete
Actually, you guys might be blowing the spark out, try a colder plug?. That thing should have no issue idling with that carb. Thats basically how they turbo old single carb bugs. Do some googling for draw-through carb turbocharging. What you have should work perfectly. Your turbo might also be oversized. Also, I would redo your intake and exhaust tubing, it's super restrictive and has some sharp bends that shouldn't be there. That should all be as open as possible.
good job👍I plan to build something like this 😀
Cool project
the pipe looks like a rattle snakes rattle
WWAAAAHHHHH PSHHHH
+Kyle TheTreeKat BWAAAAA BWAAAAA TSU TSU TSU TSU
Needs a boost box over the carb in the blow-through configuration so the float bowl is the same pressure as the venturi in the carb. The base of the boost box goes between the carb base and the head, then you need a removable top or side so the fuel line and throttle can get to the carb and you can get to the mounting bolts for the carb. You still might get some boost blowing back into the fuel tank. They used to do this all the time back in the '70s and '80s with V8s.
The exhaust side of the turbo from head to turbo impeller is called the up-pipe usually. From the compressor to the rest of the exhaust is called a downpipe +CarsandCameras
It's so funny to see that ike has no clue what the hell he's doing sometimes
Hi Guys Love what you are trying to do
and I just want to ask a question and see if this idea is possible
as you said you are not able to charge the battery could you put a pulley on the axle and hook up a
car alternator instead to produce power needed or would it take to much out of the engine in doing so ?
Regards from Western Australia
Tony
+Moondyne .Joe i believe that would be a option if we were in a tight spot. im sure there is something wrong with the charging system or can be upgraded. not sure wich option we will go with. lol greetings Australia
Thanks for answering Isaac it was just a thought nothing wrong with a few Alternatives
Love the TH-cams People this 56 year old enjoys your antics and look forward to each new one posted G'day USA
+Moondyne .Joe Hey, that's probably what we'll end up doing.
I can't wait to see what happens when you get the turbo running properly< Might I suggest also you take of the plastic outers on the back wheels while in this upgrade phase ? better control, traction and for tuning you wont be spinning the back wheels all the time and should get a constant speed
+Moondyne .Joe Fellow Aussie, I had the exact same idea.
You need a boost referenced carburetor... Easy way to do that: There's an atmosphere hole on the carb that you need to run to the charge pipe, and your fuel input to the carb needs a check valve.
speedometer deal is pretty cool on this video - might wanna implement that on the others if possible :)
please dont cut pipes when they are attached to the turbo you will geht shavings into your turbo
+Patrik Müller did you see the card board blocking it off. and we had rags in there too
Isaac it'll be fine ohh ok i didnt See that ^^
its cool. nothing wrong with comments
put the turbo on the 670!!!!!!!!
YES THIS IS WHAT I WAS THINK
+John Smith be cool if they did
Need to start riding and testing on the street man. Or track great videos bro keep it up.
Great welding.