In the past year, the church I have been attending had three separate pastors profess their loyalty to Keller's ideology from the pulpit. It seemed odd to me, so I started to research Keller's teaching in greater depth. This church has also been offering CRT "esque" classes that has caused some to leave the church, even after 20-30 years of attendance. Thank you for bringing this information to the surface for your church and community! 1TIM 1:6
Thank you for having Dr. Peter Naylor and recommending his book! 👍 This conversation is very important for the church. The "social justice gospel" as I have heard it spoken of is political in nature. It can be turned into a works based gospel if you let it. I do not believe the ideas put forth by the late Tim Keller are faithful to the scriptures. I see the mixing of Christianity and socialism. Jesus would condemn this ideology. The care for the poor out of compassion by either an individual or church membership is different than putting forth as a mandate. One example I have heard or read is that the 10th commandment, "You shall not covet", speaks to the ownership of property not selling it in order to spread the wealth. This goes both deep and wide to those who do their research on the late Tim Keller alone and beyond. I recommend Jon Harris's book.
Another "spot on" enchanting interview taking on the Intellectual Big Boys ... and I am glad they did - Kyle and Pastor Darryl drill this into us, context, context, context. Once you take something out of context you can say anything, and mean anything you want it to. Very dangerous.
Jon Harris of Conversations That Matter is the first resource I found in both the late Tim Keller and his two books on the social justice gospel. A very trusted truth platform. FYI.
Thank you for this podcast, I have not been aware of this controversy. Are you talking about all activities outside of the church, for example running a soup run for homeless or a food bank or are you just meaning larger political issues? I think from my local church perspective these local activities are seen as loving thy neighbour and perhaps a way of drawing people into church. Would you say these activities are outside the mandate of the church?
Having soup-kitchens and food banks is a outflow of the Gospel. The distinction here is what is the Churches mandate or mission. It is not to change the culture through social and political means, but to take the Gospel to the lost. It is the Great Commission. The Woke/ Social Justice ideologies of our culture have their roots in Marxism and the fruit of that brings division, rather than unity. It divides people into groups within the Church..........oppressed and oppressors. The Gospel brings unity and recognizes no distinction within the Church. Blessings.
A great question with a great reply. I can give you a trusted source: Jon Harris of Conversations That Matter. He also has two books on this subject. FYI.
Was there any attempt to engage with him on this issue while he was alive? He only recently passed. I’d like to think that there was, I can hope if I’m in error on something that it can be addressed with me on this side of eternity.
Dear Pastors - you have no idea how timely this is. I have been struggling big-time in discerning on whether to participate in programs to help in my city in service to the poor, disinfranchised, or you name the issue or problem. I have been seeking God on this very subject as I continue to wrestle with the question, what is the church for, what is its role in society, and what does the bible mandate? The one answer that keeps coming to me is, "the world needs Jesus." I would love to do a deeper dive and read more on this very subject as I want to learn more. Can you or anyone out there point me to some books to read? Thank you dear brothers for this very valuable topic!
i have to admit - working a late-night job in the summer - I would listen to Keller on CSN after Alistair Begg, talk about contrast right? How would I describe Keller - charismatic and intellectually challenging. What amazes me is that he could promote a social gospel in a fairly closed and antisocial city like New York from whence I came as a lad. Yes he has had some good things to say, but also some damage control was in order. You see the problem with and for such young Johnny on the Spot Superstars - is they always want a new corner on the market. Twisting and taking a Scripture and using it, in the "what if" territory, like 1 of the 99 sheep wandering away from the flock. Whenever we choose commentary and opinion over God's Word watch out - bad things will follow the longer one insists on leading blindly or without regard. I remember when teaching a principal told our whole staff, Rumors are Sexy stay away from them, keep with the truth, which is usually mundane.
The gospel of WOE and WOKE (man's word offers us nothing) is the same thing Brother Nate Pickowitz battles on the North Eastern side of the country. Keller's church was not all that far from NH, MASS, etc.
Isn't this the church (not the private individual Christian...it was this church) that had an entire evening hosting Charlie Kirk in a "partnering event" with TPUSA?? I'd encourage viewers here to watch this podcast and then go back and watch that interview with Charlie Kirk and see if Jon is consistent in his critique. Kirk referenced the VERY verse in Jeremiah 29:7 and used it in the EXACT same way Keller does as the foundation to the entire conversation and reason for the church's involvement in the welfare of society with ZERO pushback from Jon. Kirk made an entire argument for "Gospel AND" caring for the society, and Jon laughingly plays 'devil's advocate' and asks, "It's not either/or?" Yet in this podcast, Jon says that there has been great division over churches who see it as the Gospel/or" vs. the "Gospel/AND" caring for justice. Kirk's entire argument is "Gospel AND" involvement in our political sphere...to Redeemer/Jon's applause. So this church podcast and these "fractured relationships" mentioned are nothing more than marketing through manufactured division of believers. This kind of disparaging others for doing the exact same thing that they themselves do is indicative of the spirit of Romans 2:1 and this form of divisive doublespeak that Redeemer has perpetuated for years now dishonors God the Spirit (Ephesians 4:1-6) and the Bride of Christ. Repent.
Titus 3:10 I guess. Seems more and more like lost cause here. Praying that repentance does happen though. Especially amongst the division stirred up in the Church locally in the East Valley by Redeemer.
Whenever we choose commentary and opinion over God's Word - we no longer have the gospel of Good News, we no longer even have God's Word, just some babble, nothing sacred, nothing holy. God's Word is Eternal, it doesn't shut down churches, our words and thoughts for the most part are boring putting churches to sleep, and locking its doors.
I was shocked to learn Tim Keller believed and taught 🐟🐟🐵🐵🧔🏻🧔🏻 evolution (which is a rejection of Genesis' account of creation of us and believing random bags of molecules by chance evolved to fishes and then human beings) tim keller biologos
It all started when he went to college. A great read is from Jon Harris' book: "Social Justice Goes To Church" and his platform is Conversations That Matter.
@@loeweal5641 The "going" is not the problem, it is both apparent and factual that the educational system is broken and has been for years. The secular humanistic influences will rub off if you are not careful. This is what Keller's experience was, he loved the philosophy over the Christian faith that he claimed to have.
@@cat-bg3rv Hey sorry for taking time answering. Is it your statement that Keller loved the philosophy over Christianity or has he said at some point that he really loves philosophy? I get your point but I would say that if your faith is deep and genuine and it survives the confrontation with secular human influences. Also I think it´s necessary to have a deeper understanding of secular culture since in many places in the world and probably in the US like NY where Keller taught secular culture is the norm. If Christians leave those places they contradict the Great Commission. So I would rather yes secular influence is a danger to the Gospel and it´s necessary to know the risks but the solution can´t be to avoid it completely.
Thank you for putting this out there. Because of Keller's influence people think I'm crazy when I tell them about Keller's errors.
So thankful you Pastor Jon and your guest, addressed this much needed discussion of Tim Kellers misconceptions!!
False teachings.
Great, engaging conversation. I've tended to wrestle quite a bit with Keller's "social justice mindset" and this helped clear some of my confusion.
In the past year, the church I have been attending had three separate pastors profess their loyalty to Keller's ideology from the pulpit. It seemed odd to me, so I started to research Keller's teaching in greater depth. This church has also been offering CRT "esque" classes that has caused some to leave the church, even after 20-30 years of attendance. Thank you for bringing this information to the surface for your church and community! 1TIM 1:6
Thank you for having Dr. Peter Naylor and recommending his book! 👍
This conversation is very important for the church. The "social justice gospel" as I have heard it spoken of is political in nature. It can be turned into a works based gospel if you let it. I do not believe the ideas put forth by the late Tim Keller are faithful to the scriptures. I see the mixing of Christianity and socialism. Jesus would condemn this ideology. The care for the poor out of compassion by either an individual or church membership is different than putting forth as a mandate. One example I have heard or read is that the 10th commandment, "You shall not covet", speaks to the ownership of property not selling it in order to spread the wealth. This goes both deep and wide to those who do their research on the late Tim Keller alone and beyond. I recommend Jon Harris's book.
Thank you. This is something that I’ve been deep diving into and this helps so
Much.
Another "spot on" enchanting interview taking on the Intellectual Big Boys ... and I am glad they did - Kyle and Pastor Darryl drill this into us, context, context, context. Once you take something out of context you can say anything, and mean anything you want it to. Very dangerous.
Jon Harris of Conversations That Matter is the first resource I found in both the late Tim Keller and his two books on the social justice gospel. A very trusted truth platform. FYI.
Thank you for this podcast, I have not been aware of this controversy. Are you talking about all activities outside of the church, for example running a soup run for homeless or a food bank or are you just meaning larger political issues?
I think from my local church perspective these local activities are seen as loving thy neighbour and perhaps a way of drawing people into church.
Would you say these activities are outside the mandate of the church?
Having soup-kitchens and food banks is a outflow of the Gospel. The distinction here is what is the Churches mandate or mission. It is not to change the culture through social and political means, but to take the Gospel to the lost. It is the Great Commission. The Woke/ Social Justice ideologies of our culture have their roots in Marxism and the fruit of that brings division, rather than unity. It divides people into groups within the Church..........oppressed and oppressors. The Gospel brings unity and recognizes no distinction within the Church. Blessings.
A great question with a great reply. I can give you a trusted source: Jon Harris of Conversations That Matter. He also has two books on this subject. FYI.
Was there any attempt to engage with him on this issue while he was alive? He only recently passed. I’d like to think that there was, I can hope if I’m in error on something that it can be addressed with me on this side of eternity.
He was very active on Twitter and people certainly engaged with him a great deal there
Salvation Army is a good example
Was this recorded before Keller passed away. So far I don’t hear any reference to past-tense-Keller
Dear Pastors - you have no idea how timely this is. I have been struggling big-time in discerning on whether to participate in programs to help in my city in service to the poor, disinfranchised, or you name the issue or problem. I have been seeking God on this very subject as I continue to wrestle with the question, what is the church for, what is its role in society, and what does the bible mandate? The one answer that keeps coming to me is, "the world needs Jesus." I would love to do a deeper dive and read more on this very subject as I want to learn more. Can you or anyone out there point me to some books to read? Thank you dear brothers for this very valuable topic!
Hi. JESSE Johnson on Cripplegate did some articles on mercy missions some years ago.
@@judithmargret5972 Thank you Judith. I don't know who this person is. I'll Google him/her. Thank you.
Tim Keller has a good book called Generous Justice!
@@QuietlyContemplating thank you for your thoughtful response.
i have to admit - working a late-night job in the summer - I would listen to Keller on CSN after Alistair Begg, talk about contrast right? How would I describe Keller - charismatic and intellectually challenging. What amazes me is that he could promote a social gospel in a fairly closed and antisocial city like New York from whence I came as a lad. Yes he has had some good things to say, but also some damage control was in order.
You see the problem with and for such young Johnny on the Spot Superstars - is they always want a new corner on the market. Twisting and taking a Scripture and using it, in the "what if" territory, like 1 of the 99 sheep wandering away from the flock.
Whenever we choose commentary and opinion over God's Word watch out - bad things will follow the longer one insists on leading blindly or without regard.
I remember when teaching a principal told our whole staff, Rumors are Sexy stay away from them, keep with the truth, which is usually mundane.
The gospel of WOE and WOKE (man's word offers us nothing) is the same thing Brother Nate Pickowitz battles on the North Eastern side of the country. Keller's church was not all that far from NH, MASS, etc.
Here's one for you: Don't trust anyone but GOD.
w/ … w divided by what?!?
Exegesis is from the pit of hell
Isn't this the church (not the private individual Christian...it was this church) that had an entire evening hosting Charlie Kirk in a "partnering event" with TPUSA??
I'd encourage viewers here to watch this podcast and then go back and watch that interview with Charlie Kirk and see if Jon is consistent in his critique.
Kirk referenced the VERY verse in Jeremiah 29:7 and used it in the EXACT same way Keller does as the foundation to the entire conversation and reason for the church's involvement in the welfare of society with ZERO pushback from Jon. Kirk made an entire argument for "Gospel AND" caring for the society, and Jon laughingly plays 'devil's advocate' and asks, "It's not either/or?" Yet in this podcast, Jon says that there has been great division over churches who see it as the Gospel/or" vs. the "Gospel/AND" caring for justice. Kirk's entire argument is "Gospel AND" involvement in our political sphere...to Redeemer/Jon's applause.
So this church podcast and these "fractured relationships" mentioned are nothing more than marketing through manufactured division of believers. This kind of disparaging others for doing the exact same thing that they themselves do is indicative of the spirit of Romans 2:1 and this form of divisive doublespeak that Redeemer has perpetuated for years now dishonors God the Spirit (Ephesians 4:1-6) and the Bride of Christ.
Repent.
Titus 3:10 I guess. Seems more and more like lost cause here. Praying that repentance does happen though. Especially amongst the division stirred up in the Church locally in the East Valley by Redeemer.
@@MichaelKelleyAZ You'd be doing us a kindness.
Whenever we choose commentary and opinion over God's Word - we no longer have the gospel of Good News, we no longer even have God's Word, just some babble, nothing sacred, nothing holy. God's Word is Eternal, it doesn't shut down churches, our words and thoughts for the most part are boring putting churches to sleep, and locking its doors.
Amen
I was shocked to learn Tim Keller believed and taught 🐟🐟🐵🐵🧔🏻🧔🏻 evolution (which is a rejection of Genesis' account of creation of us and believing random bags of molecules by chance evolved to fishes and then human beings)
tim keller biologos
Tim Keller went off the rails years ago 😮
It all started when he went to college. A great read is from Jon Harris' book: "Social Justice Goes To Church" and his platform is Conversations That Matter.
@@cat-bg3rv Why is going to college a problem to you?
@@loeweal5641 The "going" is not the problem, it is both apparent and factual that the educational system is broken and has been for years. The secular humanistic influences will rub off if you are not careful. This is what Keller's experience was, he loved the philosophy over the Christian faith that he claimed to have.
@@cat-bg3rv Hey sorry for taking time answering. Is it your statement that Keller loved the philosophy over Christianity or has he said at some point that he really loves philosophy? I get your point but I would say that if your faith is deep and genuine and it survives the confrontation with secular human influences. Also I think it´s necessary to have a deeper understanding of secular culture since in many places in the world and probably in the US like NY where Keller taught secular culture is the norm. If Christians leave those places they contradict the Great Commission. So I would rather yes secular influence is a danger to the Gospel and it´s necessary to know the risks but the solution can´t be to avoid it completely.