I honestly hope the pastors in this video truly do love and care for their church body. You seem to be a humble group. I would like to hear actual examples of your caring for a member after that member has been hurt.
Thank you Gentlemen, your truthfulness, is the reason why I keep returning to listen to you. I didn't see Pastors Costi and Daryl with you, I pray they are well. It's amazing how a church can go from safe to unsafe because of the change in leadership. The new church, I attend now, is safe. They are welcoming and caring. They listen to you when you have a question and carefully/thoughtfully reply. Bless you as you continue to do His work. Greetings from Australia
Hi Jillian! I'm talking with a Christian next week about this very thing. Be patient and keep praying like we talked about last year. We will see what the Lord does. -- Jon
Topped off well like a cherry on top and quotable "Gifting does not equal (nor replace or supplant) godliness". There are many tools and resources made available 24/7 but the key resource is our ears, our eyes, our hearts, our minds, and our voices to - love God with all we are. He is first, all other things if need be and He wills work out for good, and falls into place, even to the surprise sometimes of our own thinking or doings. Instead of run Dale when we see error, we should offer a hand as a friend does, to pick one another up, restore and encourage one another until He comes back again. Til that day, which could be any time now, look up, our Redemption draws nigh. Here it says 29 minutes, it took me 2 hours plus to get thru it - see I told you I was slow. Hence the reason to be in school for such a long time. Actually in reality we never stop learning and growing, until we are no longer breathing, and for some who have flatlined and come back, wasn't that an eye-opening experience to talk about for another day?
One thing you can count on - we never get "cheated" in a Redeeming Truth Podcast. Great topic of conversation. Is your church SAFE? Can you trust it? I guess that would depend on how you measure it, and who is doing the measuring because it will stir up a lot more than just conversation, but much controversy depending on who interprets and translates. Fortunately, we are very blessed to have these dedicated men on staff here to be accountable "shepherds" in guiding us, but know one thing, at the end of the day, these men much as they would like to go to bat for you as a pinch-hitter, they cannot. We all must give our own account, so buckle up and listen in because it is a jim-dandy session today that is rarely exposed in many circles that call themselves a gathered ekklesia.
I like what Pastor Tim says that there is a camaraderie a unity of purpose - with a focus on Jesus, it is hard to go wrong. I also like what Pastor Kyle says, if "we can get it and understand God's word" pretty much anyone can, it is plain and simple. That said, I don't know who owns all those books in the background, yet I do remember Pastor Jon from the Habbukuk teaching this Sunday that he liked Bible nerdy things, so all those commentaries and books, that is a lot of nerddom there, lol. Isn't it amazing at the end of the day, all those authors written past, writing present, and those to come should the Lord tarry, only His word, not our comments of it, not our insights for each other, nor our learnings, only His word, lasts forever.
Jon also makes a great point in there is a great chasm from one side to the other, of what is said or declared, acknowledged, checked off, or ascented to vs. what actions were actually obediently done, carried out, not just started, and completed. These days, I am not so sure you can say as it may have been more than a half-century ago or longer where churches were on every corner of the white picket fence neighborhoods, that they adhered to and held solid biblical doctrine, and picked qualified leadership. It is not so common these days, I dare say it is rare.
I like what Pastor Curtis (refreshing) adds - Martin Luther said "Life is Constant Repentance" >>> and also how Pastor Jon points out how Paul after 30 years of following Christ and even dating back to his BC days, stating he is chief of sinners ... the honest transparency which he was well aware of (as we all should be pastor or not, member or attender) as followers - that like Paul - God did not remove from him the "thorn" - it may have been very easy for Dr. Paul who was the poster boy in his BC days of his tradition and religion, well versed, well studied to say, hey, I graduated Magna Cum Laude with honors and special recognitions. It may also have been easy for Paul in his post-Christ encounter to list all the things he had done and experienced that would embarrass most other believers if the race he ran was the measure we were all to give an account on. The bad news is, the standard was even higher than his remarkable achievements, it is Christ, and none of us can live up to that Ph.D. We all fall short, the good News is - Jesus showed us, thru Him, there is a way, the One Way - the Only Way to reach that standard - true salvation is found in none other. All else is sinking sand, Havel, and foolish pride. The fear of the Lord, reverence, honor, to his Sacred Majesty, is the very beginning steps of wisdom.
I love Pastor Curtis, see he is honest to tell you guys straight who may slightly over-estimate your handsomeness (as we all do, I should speak) not to think too highly of ourselves. A side-note here is - when we see a picture we like, who is the first person we look at, right??? When we see one we look less than our best, be honest now, we say, that was a bad picture, right? Pastor Curtis is right though, as I recall the words of Charles Stanley and Adrian Rogers - if you come to church without a notebook and a pen in hand, along with your Bible, what are you really expecting? Just to sit thru another hour, before Sunday dinner or something as trivial as a football game called "super" where we will sit thru 5 hours with commercials in rapt attention? What I love here, is like the Temple in Jesus' day, is EACH DAY is an opportunity. Each day the Word is opened to us - the Daily Word, Wisdom of the Word, The Gathering, Saturday and Sunday service, Men's Prayer, and Breakfast meeting, so if you want to be involved - you can be. If you want to encourage, you are able. If you want to be ministering in some capacity of service, you are able to do that. We are all ministering one to another for the sake of the body. One grieves, we all grieve. One rejoices, we all rejoice.
Pastor Dale really hit it on the head there, in high regard for the word, we are held accountable, and see often we in and ourselves well-meaning good-intentioned fall woefully short (if we are painfully honest) and we have a GREAT NEED to be DEPENDENT on Jesus as Lord, the Word, and the Holy Spirit shining the flashlight into our secret crevices and hidden cobwebs of darkness. He must INCREASE, we are only the messengers, and must DECREASE. He is the one we CELEBRATE, not wow look at us and what we are doing. No program or format or formula should ever replace or take front and center stage when it comes to Jesus is Lord and our adherence to heed in obedience and repentance. That is another thing I noticed and like here, is that if we Profess ourselves to be Christ-followers - Christians - christened for a new mission, of the Master's orders, if we hold the Captain in high regard, we don't just do get by ship-shod work, the staff here is very articulate, very well organized, very well mannered, and thus is rated to be capable Profess-ors or Professing in a very Professional Manner. We are all ministers, we just need to remind ourselves whether we mop the deck or steer the wheel or are on the lookout on 3rd watch at sea in the night, that whatever we do, we do not in fear of one another, but we work with and for one another as unto the Lord.
Kyle makes a good observation before passing the baton onto Tim - are we already "conformed" ... I think the quick answer to that is "No" which may surprise some - rather, we are continuing in sanctification to be conformed. There is no perfect utopia church (at least not yet on this planet, until Jesus reigns for 1,000 years and even then, there may be free will) yet we are being perfected to be as He is, and will do so until the day He takes us home, and we are forevermore with Him. It will never be by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy, He saved us, by the washing of re-generation, and the re-newing of the Holy Ghost. There is Power definite Dunamis Power in the Blood, the sacrifice of all sacrifices to Passover, and wash all sin and stain of the wretched men we once were. God is good and rich in mercy, we have much to be thankful and grateful for.
While Jon says - "we have what we need" (in the Bible) - it would be a faulty assumption that even everyone who goes here, reads the Bible daily, tunes in to daily word, etc. etc. What is true, and well said is "we just don't know (the Word) well enough, like some do the Diamondbacks batting averages, or earned run averages or wins above replacement for certain players, or how many points and rebounds Suns players are posting nightly. If we are not showing that same kind (or higher) enthusiasm for the things of God and His word, it is more than likely we are entertaining and toying with distractions and idols to take 1st place and that therein becomes the real problem of compromise. Sin is sin, it is ugly, and it cannot be justified just like Jon says in witnessing we cannot negotiate anything but the blood of Christ, He died, He rose again, and it is only thru Him, Sola Cristo, Sola Scriptura we have the forgiveness of sins, and begin the regeneration process towards the daily renewing of the mind, the constant washing (following Jesus example in baptism) and confessing sin on the spot. As Jon said, anything less - is the highway to hell. One way is straight, and also narrow, another is wide, and you can get there pretty much any way you "feel" led. Feelings never trump the Truth in the Word of God.
Good closing Dale >>> beware of pedestals (and Ivory Towers) for when we promote our leadership as some do to sainthood in other religions - we tend to forget our relationship with Jesus and one another, and in such pride elevate one to be subject to as mentioned disappointing another, hurting another, and a great fall, or even shameful embarrassment. No church or its people are perfect, we are all constantly in need of a Savior and saving grace.
Well said Jon, for if we are not following Jesus, are we not subject to what we are seeing in the culture and communities, people, using the namesake and checkbook of God to endorse themselves, yet in reality is no better than "the blind, leading also the blind" which may be a humorous but futile thing to watch. I have to wonder if Monty Python ever did such a skit.
Good interjection Dale, "safety doesn't mean perfection" it isn't been there done that, One and Done, if it were we would all have been transliterated to glory with Jesus in Heaven. No, it is a continual perfecting/sanctifying as you all have so aptly pointed out, with Kyle reminding us of the main anchor, makes the believers more complete, until complete. In 2 Timothy 3:16-17, it says, “All Scripture is -breathed and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.”
Well said Jon, what is said or "demonstrated" in the pulpit is a very integral part of the church functioning well and healthy to also administer health to the sick, seeking and wayward. Back in the day when I went to Bible school 100 yrs ago, it was the Pastor was the one-man show, the Rock Star from late-night janitor to his own personal secretary, to the pianist, to worship leader, to CEO board administrator, to the main preacher, and if he ever left or died, so therein did most of those churches shortly thereafter his lead. I came out of Foursquare which has many an example, Aimee Semple McPherson (who said she took the lead because men did not), Jack Hayford, Ricky Temple, Jerry Cook, Paul Hackett, Andrae Crouch, even Chuck Smith (Calvary Chapel) graduated from LIFE Bible College. With each of these except the one who is living and Jack who is now 85+ and retired, after a time, the churches withered away from what they were. So you have to ask yourself what happened? This is why I like what I saw when I came here, that this is not a one-man dog and pony show, but rather a team of united pastors holding each other and the people they lead as accountable. That was very attractive to me. For when one leads without accountability, there is much room for error and fallibility, and then heresy and an apostate falling away of that shepherd and then its people. That is sad. That should not happen.
Jon is again right on - this is the Lord's flock. Too many have his name outside on the highway, but too many make such a place their own temple or kingdom. I remember a funny comment from Pastor McGee, who said, why does Jesus repeat himself so often. Jon now with 4 children, and the rest of us who have had children "get it" - we as Jon says can be a little slow, hence Jesus repeats it not only for the disciples on earth then, but for now as well.
Jon leads it off with a great point, people put their time, their energy, their finances, their day to day lives into such an investment. Although I like and am on a 1st name friendly basis with my bankers and credit unions, it is far different than determining a bank or school, for with them, you have many uncontrollable variables of administration, policies to adhere to, and yada yada. I would like to think to be "kosher" God holds the church and the people who lead it to shepherd the flock with a higher standard of accountability. What these men speak of is not Havel - or the grasping of the wind, but the solid anchor as Spurgeon would say the Word of God, the Holy Sacred Scriptures which is tied to show Christ at every angle. That said, Christ is never to be "watered-down" or "compromised"
I honestly hope the pastors in this video truly do love and care for their church body. You seem to be a humble group. I would like to hear actual examples of your caring for a member after that member has been hurt.
Knowing the truth and the truth will set you free ,Praise The Lord
Thank you Gentlemen, your truthfulness, is the reason why I keep returning to listen to you. I didn't see Pastors Costi and Daryl with you, I pray they are well.
It's amazing how a church can go from safe to unsafe because of the change in leadership.
The new church, I attend now, is safe. They are welcoming and caring. They listen to you when you have a question and carefully/thoughtfully reply.
Bless you as you continue to do His work.
Greetings from Australia
Carleen, Costi, and Darryl are doing great! They were on other assignments that day. Thanks for saying hello and encouraging our ministry.
@@dalethackrah2442
You are most welcome.
🙏🕊❤
Love seeing you all together...thank you for this podcast discussion.
Still seeking a safe church in Tucson. Asking God for direction. Praying Redeemer comes to Tucson or I move to Gilbert.
Hi Jillian! I'm talking with a Christian next week about this very thing. Be patient and keep praying like we talked about last year. We will see what the Lord does. -- Jon
@We Stankin! thanks
Im Pastor in Pakistan.
Pastor Imtiaz Arif.
Gospel Beacon Ministries of Pakistan.
Topped off well like a cherry on top and quotable "Gifting does not equal (nor replace or supplant) godliness". There are many tools and resources made available 24/7 but the key resource is our ears, our eyes, our hearts, our minds, and our voices to - love God with all we are. He is first, all other things if need be and He wills work out for good, and falls into place, even to the surprise sometimes of our own thinking or doings. Instead of run Dale when we see error, we should offer a hand as a friend does, to pick one another up, restore and encourage one another until He comes back again. Til that day, which could be any time now, look up, our Redemption draws nigh. Here it says 29 minutes, it took me 2 hours plus to get thru it - see I told you I was slow. Hence the reason to be in school for such a long time. Actually in reality we never stop learning and growing, until we are no longer breathing, and for some who have flatlined and come back, wasn't that an eye-opening experience to talk about for another day?
One thing you can count on - we never get "cheated" in a Redeeming Truth Podcast. Great topic of conversation. Is your church SAFE? Can you trust it? I guess that would depend on how you measure it, and who is doing the measuring because it will stir up a lot more than just conversation, but much controversy depending on who interprets and translates. Fortunately, we are very blessed to have these dedicated men on staff here to be accountable "shepherds" in guiding us, but know one thing, at the end of the day, these men much as they would like to go to bat for you as a pinch-hitter, they cannot. We all must give our own account, so buckle up and listen in because it is a jim-dandy session today that is rarely exposed in many circles that call themselves a gathered ekklesia.
I like what Pastor Tim says that there is a camaraderie a unity of purpose - with a focus on Jesus, it is hard to go wrong. I also like what Pastor Kyle says, if "we can get it and understand God's word" pretty much anyone can, it is plain and simple. That said, I don't know who owns all those books in the background, yet I do remember Pastor Jon from the Habbukuk teaching this Sunday that he liked Bible nerdy things, so all those commentaries and books, that is a lot of nerddom there, lol. Isn't it amazing at the end of the day, all those authors written past, writing present, and those to come should the Lord tarry, only His word, not our comments of it, not our insights for each other, nor our learnings, only His word, lasts forever.
Jon also makes a great point in there is a great chasm from one side to the other, of what is said or declared, acknowledged, checked off, or ascented to vs. what actions were actually obediently done, carried out, not just started, and completed. These days, I am not so sure you can say as it may have been more than a half-century ago or longer where churches were on every corner of the white picket fence neighborhoods, that they adhered to and held solid biblical doctrine, and picked qualified leadership. It is not so common these days, I dare say it is rare.
I like what Pastor Curtis (refreshing) adds - Martin Luther said "Life is Constant Repentance" >>> and also how Pastor Jon points out how Paul after 30 years of following Christ and even dating back to his BC days, stating he is chief of sinners ... the honest transparency which he was well aware of (as we all should be pastor or not, member or attender) as followers - that like Paul - God did not remove from him the "thorn" - it may have been very easy for Dr. Paul who was the poster boy in his BC days of his tradition and religion, well versed, well studied to say, hey, I graduated Magna Cum Laude with honors and special recognitions. It may also have been easy for Paul in his post-Christ encounter to list all the things he had done and experienced that would embarrass most other believers if the race he ran was the measure we were all to give an account on. The bad news is, the standard was even higher than his remarkable achievements, it is Christ, and none of us can live up to that Ph.D. We all fall short, the good News is - Jesus showed us, thru Him, there is a way, the One Way - the Only Way to reach that standard - true salvation is found in none other. All else is sinking sand, Havel, and foolish pride. The fear of the Lord, reverence, honor, to his Sacred Majesty, is the very beginning steps of wisdom.
I love Pastor Curtis, see he is honest to tell you guys straight who may slightly over-estimate your handsomeness (as we all do, I should speak) not to think too highly of ourselves. A side-note here is - when we see a picture we like, who is the first person we look at, right??? When we see one we look less than our best, be honest now, we say, that was a bad picture, right? Pastor Curtis is right though, as I recall the words of Charles Stanley and Adrian Rogers - if you come to church without a notebook and a pen in hand, along with your Bible, what are you really expecting? Just to sit thru another hour, before Sunday dinner or something as trivial as a football game called "super" where we will sit thru 5 hours with commercials in rapt attention? What I love here, is like the Temple in Jesus' day, is EACH DAY is an opportunity. Each day the Word is opened to us - the Daily Word, Wisdom of the Word, The Gathering, Saturday and Sunday service, Men's Prayer, and Breakfast meeting, so if you want to be involved - you can be. If you want to encourage, you are able. If you want to be ministering in some capacity of service, you are able to do that. We are all ministering one to another for the sake of the body. One grieves, we all grieve. One rejoices, we all rejoice.
Pastor Dale really hit it on the head there, in high regard for the word, we are held accountable, and see often we in and ourselves well-meaning good-intentioned fall woefully short (if we are painfully honest) and we have a GREAT NEED to be DEPENDENT on Jesus as Lord, the Word, and the Holy Spirit shining the flashlight into our secret crevices and hidden cobwebs of darkness. He must INCREASE, we are only the messengers, and must DECREASE. He is the one we CELEBRATE, not wow look at us and what we are doing. No program or format or formula should ever replace or take front and center stage when it comes to Jesus is Lord and our adherence to heed in obedience and repentance. That is another thing I noticed and like here, is that if we Profess ourselves to be Christ-followers - Christians - christened for a new mission, of the Master's orders, if we hold the Captain in high regard, we don't just do get by ship-shod work, the staff here is very articulate, very well organized, very well mannered, and thus is rated to be capable Profess-ors or Professing in a very Professional Manner. We are all ministers, we just need to remind ourselves whether we mop the deck or steer the wheel or are on the lookout on 3rd watch at sea in the night, that whatever we do, we do not in fear of one another, but we work with and for one another as unto the Lord.
Kyle makes a good observation before passing the baton onto Tim - are we already "conformed" ... I think the quick answer to that is "No" which may surprise some - rather, we are continuing in sanctification to be conformed. There is no perfect utopia church (at least not yet on this planet, until Jesus reigns for 1,000 years and even then, there may be free will) yet we are being perfected to be as He is, and will do so until the day He takes us home, and we are forevermore with Him. It will never be by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy, He saved us, by the washing of re-generation, and the re-newing of the Holy Ghost. There is Power definite Dunamis Power in the Blood, the sacrifice of all sacrifices to Passover, and wash all sin and stain of the wretched men we once were. God is good and rich in mercy, we have much to be thankful and grateful for.
While Jon says - "we have what we need" (in the Bible) - it would be a faulty assumption that even everyone who goes here, reads the Bible daily, tunes in to daily word, etc. etc. What is true, and well said is "we just don't know (the Word) well enough, like some do the Diamondbacks batting averages, or earned run averages or wins above replacement for certain players, or how many points and rebounds Suns players are posting nightly. If we are not showing that same kind (or higher) enthusiasm for the things of God and His word, it is more than likely we are entertaining and toying with distractions and idols to take 1st place and that therein becomes the real problem of compromise. Sin is sin, it is ugly, and it cannot be justified just like Jon says in witnessing we cannot negotiate anything but the blood of Christ, He died, He rose again, and it is only thru Him, Sola Cristo, Sola Scriptura we have the forgiveness of sins, and begin the regeneration process towards the daily renewing of the mind, the constant washing (following Jesus example in baptism) and confessing sin on the spot. As Jon said, anything less - is the highway to hell. One way is straight, and also narrow, another is wide, and you can get there pretty much any way you "feel" led. Feelings never trump the Truth in the Word of God.
Good closing Dale >>> beware of pedestals (and Ivory Towers) for when we promote our leadership as some do to sainthood in other religions - we tend to forget our relationship with Jesus and one another, and in such pride elevate one to be subject to as mentioned disappointing another, hurting another, and a great fall, or even shameful embarrassment. No church or its people are perfect, we are all constantly in need of a Savior and saving grace.
Well said Jon, for if we are not following Jesus, are we not subject to what we are seeing in the culture and communities, people, using the namesake and checkbook of God to endorse themselves, yet in reality is no better than "the blind, leading also the blind" which may be a humorous but futile thing to watch. I have to wonder if Monty Python ever did such a skit.
Good interjection Dale, "safety doesn't mean perfection" it isn't been there done that, One and Done, if it were we would all have been transliterated to glory with Jesus in Heaven. No, it is a continual perfecting/sanctifying as you all have so aptly pointed out, with Kyle reminding us of the main anchor, makes the believers more complete, until complete. In 2 Timothy 3:16-17, it says, “All Scripture is -breathed and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.”
Well said Jon, what is said or "demonstrated" in the pulpit is a very integral part of the church functioning well and healthy to also administer health to the sick, seeking and wayward. Back in the day when I went to Bible school 100 yrs ago, it was the Pastor was the one-man show, the Rock Star from late-night janitor to his own personal secretary, to the pianist, to worship leader, to CEO board administrator, to the main preacher, and if he ever left or died, so therein did most of those churches shortly thereafter his lead. I came out of Foursquare which has many an example, Aimee Semple McPherson (who said she took the lead because men did not), Jack Hayford, Ricky Temple, Jerry Cook, Paul Hackett, Andrae Crouch, even Chuck Smith (Calvary Chapel) graduated from LIFE Bible College. With each of these except the one who is living and Jack who is now 85+ and retired, after a time, the churches withered away from what they were. So you have to ask yourself what happened? This is why I like what I saw when I came here, that this is not a one-man dog and pony show, but rather a team of united pastors holding each other and the people they lead as accountable. That was very attractive to me. For when one leads without accountability, there is much room for error and fallibility, and then heresy and an apostate falling away of that shepherd and then its people. That is sad. That should not happen.
Jon is again right on - this is the Lord's flock. Too many have his name outside on the highway, but too many make such a place their own temple or kingdom. I remember a funny comment from Pastor McGee, who said, why does Jesus repeat himself so often. Jon now with 4 children, and the rest of us who have had children "get it" - we as Jon says can be a little slow, hence Jesus repeats it not only for the disciples on earth then, but for now as well.
Jon leads it off with a great point, people put their time, their energy, their finances, their day to day lives into such an investment. Although I like and am on a 1st name friendly basis with my bankers and credit unions, it is far different than determining a bank or school, for with them, you have many uncontrollable variables of administration, policies to adhere to, and yada yada. I would like to think to be "kosher" God holds the church and the people who lead it to shepherd the flock with a higher standard of accountability. What these men speak of is not Havel - or the grasping of the wind, but the solid anchor as Spurgeon would say the Word of God, the Holy Sacred Scriptures which is tied to show Christ at every angle. That said, Christ is never to be "watered-down" or "compromised"