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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ม.ค. 2023
- I've wanted to see how different sub amps sound for quite a while now, and i couldnt let this opportunity pass! This isnt a definitive result, lots more tests will need to be conducted with a variety of different variables, but I found this pretty interesting. I hope you do too!
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Man gotta love how far you will go to answer the deepest questions in our passions
I agree
Just brilliant!💞
I agree, Sam does not get the respect he deserves imo. I will continue to share his videos the information he offers and support as much as I can.
@@BeSome1 wanst saying anything about him not getting it I was trying to express my adoration and respect out how hell bent he can be to make the impossible a reality
@FUCK D S S I understand. I personally see people in the audio community, that share information put forth by Sam without sharing his content or promoting his services.
Great test!
I think this does a lot to prove that the human mind can play a lot of tricks on you...
Having the amp setup properly (eq, slopes, and all that stuff I don't understand) is probably the major difference contributing to any sense of an amp being cleaner or whatnot... You can setup a great amp to sound like garbage, but when you set them up identically as you had done, it is really hard to tell, especially with low frequency.
Great work!
This was the best car audio test I’ve seen on YT in 15 years or so of watching! Phenomenal idea and test! A couple of point: First, listening test would need to be a relatively low volume in the vehicle since cars flex and add non linear distortion at higher volumes. Second is the enclosure type; bandpass enclosures mask a lot of the subwoofer sound. I think the test would be easier in a good ported or even sealed enclosure. Thank you for this!
Bass On!
-Wizard-
For years people have been arguing back and forth about this with the only true test being a blind A/B test. Sam did that, and people still refuse to accept the fact that they sound similar. I could somewhat believe it for mid range and high range amplifiers but the inherent damping in the sub stage is so high much higher I can't see it making a difference absent a terribly designed amplifier vs one properly designed. I don't think anyone has taken Richard Clark's $10k yet.
This!
Richard Clark does indeed still have his 10 grand.
I've got a Klipsch 15" driver in a custom box, and am running it off of a Planet Audio amp I bought for literally $10. And it sounds beautiful--so long as the amp is getting enough power and not being over-driven. So this test pretty much confirmed what I've been thinking, although finding it hard to believe. Of all the potential benefits that a more expensive subwoofer amp can give you, sound quality is not necessarily always one of them.
I honestly hear more difference in the sound when I swap RCAs---between a thin, cheap pair, and a thicker (probably shielded) better quality cable. It's louder and clearer with the better cable. Likely mostly due to just larger conductors in the wire, so more copper to pass the signal (although pre-amp signal is still only 1-2 volts, so just how thin does the conductor have to be to start squelching a 1V signal?)
Info on Richard Clark and $10k?
I had a T1000 Fosgate amp and sold it to a friend and later on I got the budget Prime 1200 Fosgate amp and there was a big difference in sound , nothing changed just the amp on two Punch Hx2 and they sounded like mid bass driver instead of subs , the T1000 made them sound really deep with thump
Very interesting, you are one of the few people that could perform this test and have a validity.
The JBL is just so nostalgic… Especially if your from that era. As far as the numbers go I would die if on a scope the other put out a cleaner signal even if you can’t tell the difference on bass. They were rating these amps at .05% THD and that’s crazy !!!
Back in the day it was a massive step forward, i swapped out 2 hifonics colossus's mk11 for the a6000 and it sure got some attention ... not had a big system in 20+ years and seeing this has made me want to have another go
When you're getting into serious wattage and bass, I agree with you, the sound would be the same. Musicality normally comes from less power and obviously over 80hz. Great test! It shows that as long as the amp is reliable, no one will know the difference.
That switcher box you threw together is super dope, They make those for guitar amps in recording studios for ridiculous money!
Been waiting for this test for a long time. An amplifier takes a sine wave as an input, amplifies it, and sends it out as an amplified sine wave. Theoretically, every amp should sound the same regardless of the amplification circuitry. I've been saying this for years, but naysayers believe that the Brazillian/cheaper amps are inferior to their Koren/expensive counterparts. Maybe in other ways, such as build quality, protection circuitry, etc. But when it comes to sound and all parameters are matched up (crossovers, eq, gains, etc.), it should sound the same. Thank you for putting this to the test and proving it!
Great video sir. I remember when companies back in the day, like JL Audio, Kicker, and Rockford Fosgate used bridged amps labeled under their "sound quality" lines.
Awesome video mate! Thank you for using your mad technical skills to bring light to one of the most heated car audio questions! Much love and respect. Cheers!
Yes you can IMO. Sometimes the lower frequencies sound fuller and more rich on certain amplifiers versus others
Hmm.. doubt it. Like, a lot.
You're saying you can hear a difference in these two amps or two other models of amps?
@@JasonWW2000 I've been wrong before. Not the first time. Won't be the last lol
I agree. Cheaper circuitry or less in build quality most times you get what you get
I have notice that too... I swapped between taramps Smart 3, nemesis audio 3k and jp23 V2. All playing the same 2 songs. Slow motion by juvenile and B-legit's M.O.B... this song you can really tell taramps could not deliver the impact in that department you have to literally set the LP on head unit to 40hz in a -6 db slope just to reach that sound.. also in slow motion it was the same result again taramps to nemesis.. now taramps compared to D4S jp23 V2 you just really get the clean no noise on the remote turn up and cleaner sound ( that's all I remember from JP amp compared to taramps Smart 3) it does also sound better frequency response compared to taramps. You really have to actually listen to music music to know the difference not decaf or bas boosted songs..
Awesome test Sam. Another test you could do on this one, is test the difference of the reactive load between the two amps across a frequency spectrum with no EQ adjustments at all, completely flat and only a filter from the source.
The roll of and amplification numbers would be interesting between boards
@@FUCKDSS yeah it would. Be nice to see each circuit’s design strengths and weakness on the output section between these two. Frequency sweep plot with the load static, and reactive on a chart plot. See what’s the power difference with the output section on a graft. I can probably say most would go with the Taramps because of the head room off top, and why wouldn’t you. Thing is with the JBL, the lower you go in resistance, the less power you get where the Taramps gets more power lower you go in resistance. So by circuit design, the JBL naturally rolls off. So those that like low resistance wiring, would buy the Taramps, where if you’re planning a high rising enclosure, the JBL would give you more wiggle room with enclosure design and forgiveness. My 1st personal 13.5w7 and my JBL BPx2200.1 coupled with a 3.75 cuft enclosure tuned to 31.5hz rippled my 91 civic roof at a 3ohm load rising around 3.5-4.5 I think… big box. It’s an amp that likes to run high voltage, low current. Keep it between 2-4 ohms, and enjoy a bowel massage. Classic amp to this day. Wish I could get a JBL A6000GTi….. or a second BPx2200.1. Legendary.
Filtering was done on dsp he even said on video
This was a very cool and much needed test for the industry. Thank you for taking the time to do this, and to share it with us!
Nothing I love more than A/B comparison in audio. I thought there was going to be a little bit of a difference so, this was eye opening. Thank you for doing this 🙌🏼
Great comparison. But for a final result I miss a comparison on dynamic music like a well recorded drumset to test the impulse fidelity of both amps. I could imagine, that this could be the turning point.
Next video I think 😁 I need some royalty free stuff for that. Wanted to get this video out before customer collects next week. I have some other interesting and wildly different amps I can test this with tho ☺
And to see how certain noises change throughout different amps, how filterless amps perform, basically to see if amps perform as the data sheet provided say especially the distortions and noise levels.
Amazing test with the relay and oscilloscope
Awesome test, I really enjoyed the video and the unbiased comparison!
Also, 0:48 was really funny :D and I love how happy your mate is just listening to the sound system
Awesome test! Been running Soundigital for a few years now and the only way I could tell the difference from my old AB and the Soundigital was the SD had loud cooling fans. LOL
Very cool vid Sam. I've had good luck with my budget amps and agree, it's largely about the signal you feed them.
I still am in absolute love with my big Korean Salt8s, but I'm less bias now towards possibly going full bridge in the future. Thanks for all your great content man!
Very nice sam ! Very in detail and entertaining
This video isn't getting the justice it deserves! Great job man!👏👏👏
Love the setup! That switching is awesome, and I have some JBL earbuds with triple flange tips for optimal BASS response, the sound quality is great! No difference to me so far so good on both amps.
That was great to watch. Good comparison test !!
One of your best videos. Thank you for this test !!
This was a good test. I was warned before getting the Taramps Smart3 that they don't sound the greatest, this is mainly due to the 90hz low pass as some vocals can make there way through but if you use a DSP you can filter it out & honestly it sounds just as good as my JBL 14001 GTO. Now this is where i found the JBL was better at lower frequencies & that was when using soft suspension subs (more suited for sealed box) in larger ported enclosures where sub & box dampening is very low & found the JBL was 1db louder on the same power on that same frequency. I repeated this test on a Sundown X-8 to find both Taramps & JBL were identical in db which leads me to the dampening ability the amps have to control the cone near Xmax & since the X-8v3 has stiff suspension & high motor force it was less likely to loss control near Xmax. Take this with a grain of salt though as i haven't tested near enough gear to prove consistent results.
Killer content Sam! This is a great real world example highlighting how misunderstood the term “clean power” is in car audio (and in general). BTW, the internals of that JBL are pure electronic art.
As a career electronics tech and car audio dabbler this is my new favorite channel. Thank you
Your knowledge is impressive, not only that but skill in fabrication/repair. Wow
Taramps welder! Awesome video Sam! Such a simple simple question but such a great Experiment
Great vid man! Id like to see a vid testing mids an highs, maybe even class d vs a/b.
Fantastic video, it helps me understand more about the mental bias and personal dislike of some amplifiers.
Great video! I've been wanting someone to do a comparison like this! BUT, the one thing that I see as negligible but the haters are already yapping about is that the Taramps has been modified. They don't care that you said you threw it together with whatever FETS or other components you had laying around, that's their excuse for not believing this is an accurate test.
I'd really like to see the same test with a Smart 5k and an Orion HCCA or another high quality amp held in the highest regard that's more modern. Keep up the great content man!
Very nice, There is plenty of controversy in my area about the sound being different between the Koreans and the Brazilian amplifiers. I think you just proved that it's more in the tune, enclosure, and other variables That determine the outcome in sound quality...
Absolutely genius Idea! liked the vid and just subscribed 😊
Awesome test! I guessed wrong!!!! I just recently started running the md taramps series on my subs and I love it so far.
about time someone finally compared full bridge to half
I don't think that's what he was testing, that was just a coincidence. It's long been known that the amplifier topology doesn't make any real difference as far as full bridge or half bridge.
I'm so glad u did this cause this is all we hear about half bridge Korean amps sound so much better than a taramp Brazilian Wich I know it's not.
Best video you’ve made to date! Thank you!
Much respect for spending so much time engineering a good switching scheme for this!
Its been reported numerous times before that people can't hear the difference between two amplifiers as long as they are gain matched and don't have audible distortion (which is fairly high for subwoofers)--even when people purport to have strong preferences. Thanks for catching the phenomenon on video along with your continuing contributions to car audio which support good engineering over superstition
Fun video! I know it was a lot of work. Really enjoyed it 👍
I love and appreciate your work. Having been working in or enjoying car audio since the mid 80s, I have developed a deep appreciation for Korean half bridge amplifiers and a corresponding disdain for full bridge topography. Objective or not, I feel that in the 25 hz and below half bridge amplifiers are far more robust. I would love to see this comparison with a new md8k and a quality, say Crossfire or Synergy Wfo 8k. I would wager a noticeable difference especially in the lower basshead bass demo and Spl capability between the two. Keep up the great work!
Great video! I think it would be possible to find a difference between lets say JBL and some knock-off amazon amp, but above some price point its really just about which amp suits you the most and will be more reliable over the years
I think it has to do with that 6th. Cuz it goes through 2 ports so whatever differences it does have it will be "filtered" through the 6th making it more close sounding. Would be cool to see sealed box comparison - my bro in law Kori L.
I was thinking just this. In a pure sound quality a/b test with a sealed or horn driver there may be a audible difference.
It's always been my opinion(Real world experience, not so much circuit understanding) the biggest difference between amps are the crossover filter section. If you use a DSP and you are not relying on the amps crossover.. Then you probably will never notice a difference between any amp for BASS. I imagine on mids you could tell between a quality A/B amp vs cheap class D.
Been watching you for the longest and nothing but respect 🙏 for you. When you talk is like being in class with Einstein.
I’ve ran skar, taramps smart 3k (currently) and a few other amp brands and my taramps sound just as good as the others before considering my skv2 amps I had did have a warmer sound not to mention 24db/octave crossovers. Awesome video! I’d be interested to see full bridge taramps amps with 24db/octave crossovers.
Im willing to bet it was the crossover differences that made it sound like the skar amp had a warmer sound but in reality it didn't
@@scottbe1 Korean amps have better damping factor that’s not arguable. When you compare 2 amps with 12db/octave crossovers built in and you put up an amp that does 24db/octave you’ll have a sound difference.
Love that old school bass test music 😀 Great test. Even though it looks like we won't hear the difference, I would still like to see some more scientific ways of measuring the differences. Or test it in your SQ car.
Another test you can do is current draw vs output db , on the two amps to see.
Could maybe do a db drag style test too . See how they handle being pushed to the limit
I owned an a6000 from new back in the day paired to 4 1800gti's iso .. it was a beast for the time.. doors were 2 kac1023 and 2 kac 823 with beyma mids and tops... great to see an icon being brought back to life .. a thing to remember it was based around concert amps, higher rail voltages so subs could be more efficient .. i fried my gti's twice on the hifonics, never on the a6000 but was running 0.5 - 1.2 db higher at soundoffs on the a6000
This definitely tells us a lot … Awesome test !!!!! 👍🏻 keep them coming!
Magnificent! Very well done.
Sam this is a great test, they are extremely close although the Crown sounded a hair tighter or more controlled this said the cost and size of the Taramp would totally negate this and that would be the Amp I would have chosen FTW.
Excellent video! I love the lengths you went through to ensure the best possible result. I tried with headphones and with my surround sound and the differences were imperceptible on my end. I have recently been running full bridge in my ride and have been happy with the sound vs the standard class d or ab amps I’ve run before.
Wuzup Hifi? Just curious. What full bridge amp are you using may I ask?
@@drrckhamilton Soundqubed U3000
@@HifiVega
Oh ok, nice. Thanks man. Appreciate your content
I would be curious to hear them set up in a sealed set up with music better recorded. But I applaud you for making the video. Do a class d verse class ab on highs next.
You're playing one of my favorite songs. Never thought I hear you play here. Soul survivor
Much props to that switching rig! This is the scientific approach for sure. I trust this science.
Excellent A-B test. I have gone from a Walmart pioneer 1500 w amp to a Rockford power t1500 and it was extremely obvious but when going from a synergy wfo 3k to a smart 3 I couldn't notice a major difference. I'm on a synergy wfo 5k currently n I could def tell the difference in the jump of power but equal power and tuning? That'd be tough
i love the testing and your ideas ! i have a orion hcca 3k dsplx, and a smart 5 bass the smart 5 is in my truck , cant tell any difference in quality only the smart is louder
Awsome test and an excellent video. This proves what I suspected. Cheap full bridge vrs expensive half bridge.....is there really a difference in sound and if so is it worth it.
It'll be cool to see a reliability test between top cheap amps vrs high end.
Phenomenal!!! Keep this up and youll be the @projectfarm of car audio bro! massive respect!
Hey. I’ve gotta say thank you for taking your time to make and share this content. By far the best explanations I’ve been able to find on car audio.
I have a question. I currently have a sundown salt 4 amp. I want to increase my power to around 8 to 10k. But buying another salt or equivalent will be pretty expensive and I’m not in the same position I was in last year. If I made the switch to say a full bridge amp would there be any difference? What is a good brand of full bridge?
Thank you
The only difference will be that it's louder and you have some change in your pocket. Make sure to set the crossover filters correctly. On 99% of brazilians, you'll get the best sound having all of the dials set to minimum position, other than the gain of course. Then set a 55-70hz lpf on the head unit also.
Thanks for doing this!
Sam, thank you for your videos. I'm hooked on learning from you.
I have a question about amps/volts/ohms. For a small setup of about 1kw per sub, 2 12" dvc 2 ohm. I could run either .5/2/8 ohm assuming I am pushing 2k watts + head room. Would the speakers perform better on higher ohm "authoritative movement and less heat?"
"Amp-powerus or taramp" The lower the ohms means less volts used which is better because of less stress on the fets unless the amp is a higher ohm model therefore is designed to support it? For ex: the 2k subs from earlier,
"amp"3k@.5 ohm/3k@2ohm/3k@4ohm/or a .5ohm amp but pushes 3k at 2ohm, which would be better for quality and why? Knowing that the spl is capped from 2kw rms and 2 12's.
I like how you started switching on time with the beat 😂
Great interesting video...maybe smoothness can be detected on cheaper/lighter/more sensitive subs (which bassheads don't care to use). Raw power is Raw power... which is what is needed to move very stiff transducer(s).
I am wearing focal stella headphones and they did sound very close but was able to pick out the taramps as amp 2. Was just a tiny bit of slop, I mean TINY when the sub was asked to stop suddenly during a note. But dk if it could be heard irl.
Bass Mekanik - Welcome Stranger 💛
Playing the classics ✌🏻
Great video. What was the model number of the transistor tester and oscope
Now these are Vids I really like...
I currently have a Riot 7500k on 2 ZV5s 15... it's full bridge and I'm wondering if I'm losing something..
I'm just about to buy the New SURGE 10k.
Should I?
I'm in love 🥰 I thought amp 2 was the crown.
Always been a huge fan of JBL, and I respect anyone's opinion, but I gotta say they sound exactly the same. What I'd really love to see is the same test performed between class AB and class D. Nice work, my friend! 👍
I was thinking of this one next! 😁
Amp 2 sounds just a hair boomier than amp 1, but such great execution for this test. Kinda reassuring if I'm honest because I went from a JL RD400/4 to a Down4Sound JP84 and then tried a Mosconi as100.4 and honestly, the differences were marginal and you wouldn't believe how many people were calling me out online lol
What I could hear seemed like amp 1 was cleaner crisper just slightly but also seemed like the tone may have been slightly lower as well. I’m listening on pretty decent home audio system.
After watching more of video now it changes on different songs and types of bass. I made first part of comment before first demo but after giving first demo I noticed it was a back and forth depending on song.
Awesome work my friend
Taramps get a bad rap because they are cheap, so there are alot of IMPROPER installs using them. All equipment deserves to be installed by an enthusiast or shop who knows what they are doing and how to install equipment safely and properly.
Guessing amp 1 is taramps, amp 2 is crown. Sennheiser HD600, dekoni semiperf pads, class A solid state headphone amp, good motherboard line out
Amp 1 sounded more hollow, amp 2 sounded more full/deep. I'd hazard a guess less rail droop in the crown means a pointier/more defined top of the sine, and the taramps had a more rounded top which would cause it to widen the Q of the tone, though these weren't at high level/high current draw so eh
Thanks for doing that test. Would appreciate a lot a video about the other differences, like you mentioned poor pwm filtering on the taramps. could that be a issue in a pro environment with EMI emissions effecting radio communications and data links? Like wireless mics, audio transmitters, bluetooth, wifi, walky talkies, etc? What are the not heard but effect practical use differences? would be fascinated to hear what your say in reguards to that.
is the taramps pwm unfiltered because the inductor/firate core/coil thingy are missing? as it was a salvaged repair.
Damn good video! This changes everything
Aw lawd the crown/JBL.... This is so awesome!
wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it. this is a game changer.
I have 2 jl audio 12" w7's in a custom built transmission line enclosure. Woofers are both 3ohm, wired in parallel to 1.5ohm. I originally had a Taramps HD3000 and then swapped it with a B2 Audio Rage 2500v2 and I felt like I could immediately tell the difference. I have a DSP so I use the low pass filter on the DSP and had the low pass pots on the amp wide open. I feel the B2 gives a more pronounced punch like it has better dynamic control off the woofer. Its like you have that one song that you muscle memory of how the bass sounds and feels, then with a different amp, somethings just a tiny bit different. But now I'm wondering if its just a difference in power output levels giving this effect. The B2 definitely gets louder for me
Thats a really interesting result, that I wouldn't have predicted! It would be interesting to ensure the preamps are calibrated, and test them AB like this ☺
So much is subjective.
Audio
Video
Photography
Lens coatings
Binoculars
Tires
Could go on and on
Humans are just biased one way or another.
We fool ourselves.
Great test!
Great test thanks!
Awesome video Brother!!!
so i have a rockville phenom rxd m4 the few pictures of board i have seen look differant then mine . mine has 2 extra boards they are very very small with like 18 or 20 gauge red and black jumpers to other parts of the board rockville talks about a peak limiter is that whut it is ?
Great content per usual.
Hi barevids i have a problem with my stetsom 3000eq. It went up in somke 30secs of playing music only. The mosfets on the supply side all where burnt ive replaced them an powered them connected speakers before powering it and still it went up in smoke. So where do i go 4rm here what else is wrong
Epic video man keep it up
Excellent video!
Amp 2 did it for me "Tara!" ! perfect test there
The man is best magician on TH-cam when it comes to car Audio 💎❤️ 🥂the stuff you do is unreal 😀
Could you please do the same test on full range amps? I'm curious if you can hear the difference in mids / highs between class D and A/B
Great video, how does thd specs and signals to noise ratio, dampening affect SQ? Like I think I prefer running my subs at 4 ohm then 1 ohm, which usually means higher dampening.
As long as damping factor is over 150, it's not perceivable for full range, even less so on low freq - benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-damping-factor-isnt-much-of-a-factor
S/n ratio comes into play with higher freqs and tweets, same as THD, it's the frequencies that change direction rapidly that you can hear a difference between in my opinion. For 20-80hz the wavelengths are too long and slow to be affected in any audible way. But I'm happy to be proven wrong!
@@barevids I’m looking to upgrade amps from jl hd 1200 to m4000 but the thd on the DD is 2% but my alternative is getting another HD 1200 which doubles the cost.
@@radiospank I wouldn't get either. The HD is great, but stupidly overpriced for a low power sub amp. The DD is an ancient Korean circuit with a huge mark up. I would get a Powerus PW3500, or Taramps Smart 3 Bass. Both modern efficient and great sounding amps. Spend the money you saved on other upgrades that will actually make a real difference like enclosure, power supply, deadening, or a better sub.
What kind of box did u have the sub in ?
Did great!
Nice way of putting a myth to bed once and for all, thanks Sam!
Awesome video. Maybe try a 1 minute 32hz or 34 Hz track or whatever your box is tuned to. The music kinda through me off a little. If there is a difference it's probably very small.
I love this beautiful JBL amplifier. So big, so awesome. 👍
What I noticed when you were doing the test from 9:50 on was that the taramps has more separation between the bass notes, and seems to have a little bit more distinction between the different notes time-wise, and has more slope in it's time signature, cutting the note off earlier.. whereas the jbl seems to keep the tone playing longer, therefore meshing the song together better in a way, making it seem cleaner with less effort. From then on i guessed each one correctly. Makes sense to me.
I’ve noticed with Korean it just has more detailed bass and better sound usually
Awesome video m8