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VATSIM updates some important rules everyone should know!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2024
- VATSIM just made an update to its Code of Conduct that every person on the network needs to know about. Here's a breakdown of the big changes!
Read the changes: is.gd/0tuD0Z
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I wish vatsim had a training environment which is not so stringent. I’m so nervous about making mistakes I avoid using vatsim at all.
UPDATE!!! I did my first Vatsim flight after months of preparing myself and it was a complete disaster 😂. I got a message from the supervisor as I went into controlled airspace without clearance, controllers had to hockey other pilots around me as I was on the wrong frequency, however everyone was very understanding and helped me out of the situation. Then I had a CTD and I decided I need more practice. I’m now not scared of getting into trouble on VATSIM and I am eager to better my skills and return soon.
Don't be. For first I flew VFR around schipol intl./ Amsterdam, took off 50ish miles north from an airfield, even with little navmap and navigraph ended up violating controlled airspace, had a minor disagreement with the controller then acknowledged my fault (tho he was acting stuck-up). Asked for vectors away from controlled airspace, stayed out of controlled airspaces, flew circles, asked vectors for navaids just to get the hang of the whole feeling.
All in all at the end he changed his tone helped me down in IMC conditions while I had a pan-pan situation, accidentally activated auto throttle which on the custom third party aircraft made the throttle stuck.
You won’t be so nervous if you study and learn about the ATC procedures for the place you’ll be flying in. Make sure you 100% know the procedures for each phase of flight, preflight clearance, pushback and taxi, departure, cruise, approach, landing, etc. You also need to make sure you know how to operate your plane. Don’t get on the network if you don’t know what you’re doing is my point.
If you're already familiar with everything and just lack confidence to talk to controllers, I recommend just picking a route that takes you through a controlled center while in cruise. Communication there is pretty much reduced to a few sentences and there's little to screw up. While listening on those you can even pick up on some procedures that would otherwise be taken on by controllers at the airports themselves thanks to Vatsim's top down hierarchy. It's also a good way to spot controllers that are a little more lenient with beginners. *cough*
Don't forget to append something like "New pilot" as a remark on your flight plan so controllers know to take it a little slow with you.
As a controller and mentor for VATUK I'm actually disappointed you feel this way. If you've come across controllers during your time who have been rude or abrupt with you, I can only apologise. Please don't feel scared or petrified of making a mistake, because we understand new pilots are prone to this and controllers should dedicate additional time. Also, remember, pilots IRL also make mistakes.
take IVAO as a training environment for vatsim
The second rule regarding pilot proficiency is HUGE. I'm a controller for Vatsim and it's beyond frustrating when you get someone on your freq that has no idea what they're doing. As controllers, we're required to study, practice and learn a quite extensive list of things before we're allowed on network and it's frustrating when a pilot comes on and has put 0 effort into learning about either their aircraft or the NAS in general. Thrilled they've added this rule, and hopefully moving forward it circumvents this from happening as often as it does :D
The provision to keep personal conversations off the voice network exists so supervisors have the ability to immediately disconnect people for trolling the frequency, especially during busy events. I haven’t flown oceanic or overnight either but I imagine it’s tempting to have a non-ATC conversation when you haven’t heard a person talk in hours.
Because where you draw the line varies because of the context and immediate circumstances, it’s cleaner just to have a zero-tolerance policy but leave enforcement up to local controllers and pilots.
Supervisors don’t usually get involved until a controller reports it. A controller won’t report it until becomes an operational hazard. And a controller will always let you know if it’s you’re chatting too much.
true but in oceania in particular irl the friendly hey or nice landing or whatever is pretty common, even at large airports (then again we are a chill af region) just seems a little overbearing to imply you cant even congratulate someone after a difficult landing in uncontrolled airspace.
They could implement a mandatory warning first, just saying
@@Rocker-1234 If it's uncontrolled another pilot would have to contact a supervisor for there to be a problem. Very unlikely.
My 2ct: You will never be disciplined for a friendly hand over - or 'pat on the shoulder' - neither as ATC, nor as pilot. We are all humans, after all. This is all about lengthy conversations and using ATC frequencies as a TeamSpeak substitute for group meetings... - and trolling, of course 🙄
OP hazard? Lmao its a sim not the real world…..they are way to overboard. I would NEVER use vatsim because they are “n**s” with that stuff. Might as well fly a real plane if you want to be treated like a criminal its a game. (Also the N word is not the derogatory word for black folks its the other N word for Germans circa 1930s)
I hopped on vatsim for the first time yesterday as a new pilot. It was later in the night so it was low air traffic. Took me about an hour to get everything mapped correctly even though ive been flying offline for some time. I cant say im proficient at anything involving flying but i was able to guide myself through a star approach relatively well with it having been my first time. It is an extremely steep learning curve and i found myself having to ask for help from the controller for a few thing. They were very helpful and friendly so i would say i had a good first experience but i would hate to run into any controller who expected me to know everything off the bat. There’s a lot of information to learn when it comes to flying and even though this service pushes realism they have to take into account that flying offline is extremely different from flying on vatsim you cant learn everything because the offline tower doesnt instruct you the same way nor are you obligated to remember and read back everything being said to you because for the most part it is automated. As a new pilot i would say the only way to learn is to go out there and do it but if the restrictions are going to push for you to know everything then it makes joining the community that much harder.
May I ask. Do you have charts and access to AIRAC updates? If not I highly suggest you get these. It will help you immensely as with the updated airac will match with the charts you have. This will help you with taxi/SID and STARS. And maybe try text comms at first. Get an idea of what’s being asked and no issue of getting any read backs wrong as you can match what the controller has wrote (unless you don’t understand then ask for clarity). If you have any questions feel free to ask. Be happy to help you enjoy my passion for aviation.
@@stepheno21 Unfortunately I do not. I'm searching it up as I type this out but if you have any suggestions or recommendations I'm all ear. Thank you for all the advice, I greatly appreciate it!!
I’m glad you had a great experience and a patient and helpful controller. Don’t feel like these guys bombarding you with questions should be cause for anxiety or intimidation. Feel free to get your reps in and ask all the questions you want. Drop a comment on my channel if you like and I’d be glad to help any time you have a question. It’s a very fun hobby once you get in there and experience some success.
@@ruffleoutgamer7164 I am very sorry I did reply back somehow it hasn’t appeared. Have a look a Navigraph which does both FMC data and charts. Can be used with a PC or on a tablet. Highly recommended.
Talking for myself as a controller on the network bur probably it is the same for all controllers. If we see you are trying your best and something doesn't work out we wont be mad and are more then likely to help you. But if you come in all over the place and just do something it annoys us. So if you are stuck don't mind asking and keep on learning ;)
Presumably the operational comms only rule will work like the real world - on occasion rw pilots will say a quick hi to each other on frequency. But it doesn’t extend to any more than that - if they want a conversation they’ll go to a discrete frequency or 123.45 and have a longer chat there.
For the radio chatter rule, I think it's fine as written but not super strict as you think it is. In the real world, frequencies are used for operations only, but the occasional quip is usually overlooked. Be friendly, but professional is the way to go.
Seems even stricter than IRL where if it's quiet we can have a brief chat to a controller or another AC
Might be due to the costs
I guess you haven’t read ICAO Doc 9432.
IRL you are not allowed to even say hello or bye before and/or after a transmission.
In real life the radio frequency is only allowed for traffic safety messages, so it is the same. I highly doubt they will kick you out for saying "Hi" to someone, but when people have overdone it can be a bit annoying.
Exactly my thoughts. Heck the could even open 123.45, 122.9, and 121.5 for standard convos and gaurd so that it is more authentic. I chatted with my coworkers over Boston IRL and ATC actually preferred it so they didn't have to space us.
That's illegal. It's just tolerated as long as people don't create safety issues. They've actually been cracking down on the guard violators by using DF and finding them from what I've heard.
There needs to be a rule that explains that you need to articulate on comms. I’ve had so many sessions where I have to ask a controller to repeat a couple of times because they speak in monotone at 400mph and it’s legit annoying af. Because you can’t understand that crap, and they begin to get frustrated at you for not speaking whatever language they’re speaking. That’s a big one in the real world. I’ve had some controllers who speak quite fast IRL, but they always articulate so you can still understand what it is they’re telling you.
At the Atlanta ARTCC training staff emphasizes that efficiency comes from effectiveness. We try NOT to waste any frequency time, and will adapt to how proficient we perceive the pilots to be in ATC interactions… so we don’t waste any frequency time.
It’s fine asking a the auctioneer controller to repeat, hopefully they will adjust their speech to you.
If you feel a controller is not effective, leave us feedback!
That should be a basic thing in training. If you asked them to speak slower and they did not (multiple times) , feel free to complain to the appropriate VACC.
I get the feeling some people actually try a bit too hard to speak fast as they think it actually shows some kind of experience or even intelligence.
Agree, annoying AF and just not necessary.
I even hear it in real life comms though, and just think it’s so poor to blurt barely legible crap out when lives are at stake
This is so true. There seems to be this misunderstanding that the best VATSIM controllers speak fast, so incorrect. Some of them speak so fast that it’s incoherent.
Some ATC guys think they are Kennedy Steve and talking way to fast.
Hey, I'm all about these changes. If they're going for realism this is what is expected of pilots in the real world.
I completely Agree!
@@gregoryl.4872 in Europe in p3d vat sim is this serious so this change is nothing
But not everyone is a real pilot, not everyone knows the exact way of communicating.
Well, @@VeniVidiAjax , then it seems like an excellent opportunity to learn!😉
@@VeniVidiAjax Learn first...
As a controller I can appreciate the “know how to fly your plane” rule. Some people don’t know how to slow down properly so they’re 35 nm from the FAF flying at final approach speeds.
I know quite a few who fly the Airbus in a particular that perceive the 'Activate APPR Phase' button in the MCDU as meant to be manually activated when you're still on the STAR before the IF. The airbus then just reduces them to their VREF speed when they're like 40 nm from touchdown still. Happens a lot as well when I control.
Been flying on VATSIM since it started and SATCO before that. These new rule changes have been a long-time coming and I fully support them 100%. Things had started become a free-for-all since the release of MSFS and this gives the Sups some authority to start dealing with the troublemakers.
I think the difference between now and then is that in the old days people found VATSIM after they had been simming for quite a long time. nowadays people jump on with near 0 hours of experience in any simulator let alone the aircraft they're flying.
@Lungho It's because society gives them a medal for trying, not having the required hours on any aircraft.
Comparing the old version of the comm policy vs the new version, has anything really changed? They pretty much just added the sentence, "All voice and text communications frequencies are for operational use only." to the front of the old text, and explicitly stated the rationale for this addition was to reinforce what was already the existing policy. Both the previous and revised policies explicitly say that private text messages on VATSIM systems are allowed, and of course Discord, Teamspeak, etc. are available for side-channel voice comms. Since all new members must acknowledge they've read the CoC, I'd wager the intent is to make clear right from the start that operational frequencies are not chat channels.
That being said, I don't expect any significant change in enforcement. When the frequency is quiet, a small amount of "chatter" isn't going to cause issues. But when things get busy and non-control transmissions interfere with operations, the controller is likely to ask those on frequency to take the chatter to a side channel. IMO, the letter of the law has not significantly changed, and in the future as in the past the spirit of the law is what will actually be standard.
You're 100% correct. The whole crux of this video is just click-bait to get views. That or someone isn't very bright.
As someone on VATSim a lot, I agree with what they have done. As for the communications rule, there are so many ways that people can set up other methods to talk (Discord, Teamspeak, etc) that they can hold private conversations there. To send a private message to someone saying hi, is also no issue. It is simple to do, and keeps the channels clear.
This will push it further towards a select/niche territory. A good step for the serious simmers and at least others know what they are getting into I.e. non-mainstream interface platform.
I agree I think this is going to separate the wheat from the chaff sort of speak. You’re going to find out who your real pilots are with these particular rules if they uphold these rules for everybody.
Even pilot to pilot coms take place irl and there are certain frequencies that can be used for that, like: 123.45mhz which is used for those normal talking as far as i know. Sa CARS and CATS may have to be studied to see what can and cannot be done on that frequency
I got my VATSIM ID about 3 months ago so have never known any different! I certainly did gulp when I saw the requirements that are being asked of pilots on the network, despite having a few hundred hours in flight sim! But the controllers are (I found) really helpful and patient with newbies.
As it says... as long as you can fly a heading at a given altitude and regulate your speed that is all that will be expected in a worst case scenario. On my 3rd / 4th VATSIM flight I accidentally (and failed to notice) reset the flight plan in a A20N a few miles before the start of the arrival procedure into Heathrow and the plane maintained last heading after that... London Control were quickly onto me and asked what the problem was, told them and they vectored me in to capture the ILS by hand. Again testament to the patience of the controllers on the network!
I like vatsim I used to use it a lot back in the day when I was learning towards my PPL It actually really helped. But I feel like back then it was definitely a lot more user-friendly and new person friendly nowadays if you’re not a season veteran you can’t even use it.
There’s no learning curve anymore controllers won’t help you you’re just expected to be perfect at it. So if any people out there want to use it that are new I would recommend just not using it at all or maybe downloading the live ATC app and practicing.
I think that's a really good point that there needs to be a way for new pilots to learn.
When I started, I looked for a tower controller on that didn't have much traffic (non-event) and signed on first asked if it was okay to fly given I was new and would need some pointers. He couldn't have been more helpful.
I can't speak for other controllers, but I think the issue is new pilots are not using discretion when deciding where to fly.
I think it really depends on where you are. For example, I've found that JAX center can be really curt no matter how friendly and professional you are. For example I've straight up been told "No" when requesting a VFR taxi and takeoff out of a class delta.
On the other hand, I've found BOS center to be incredibly friendly and helpful. I just completed the VFR section of their "Wings Over New England" learning series and now find that I'm fully comfortable operating VFR in just about any situation. Major confidence boost for sure. I fully intend to start on the IFR section in the next couple days.
I like the concept of something like VatStar, but I've found that to be far too much out-of-sim work just to progress through it. I much prefer the "read on your own then fly" approach of the wings flights.
@@hochmaniac I agree I mean obviously if you’re new I wouldn’t suggest going to like LA if they have some kind of event or there is tower, clearance, ground, departure, arrival center all going lol like you’ll just get overwhelmed for sure try to find some kind of airport someplace that has one frequency like ground.
I always felt like the hardest thing was learning the IFR clearance and saying it back correctly so that’s where I would try to go so i could to try to learn that.
I've wanted to try it for ages but I've been scared of exactly that
Just as a side note, there are 'newbie' events every once in a while to help starters learn to use vatsim. Maybe not enough, but they are there. Also, in my view, it should be common sense that if you are not experienced with the plane, you are flying or communicating on the network, don't go to busy places...
I wish we could use a guard frequency for pilot to pilot. Guilty of using it to contact near by plane in opposite direction to ask weather when controllers weren't available which low staffing coverage i wish was better BUT of course I'll still use the network! It helps learn new procedures, force you to push yourself and keep proficient. I started out just keeping to center ATC to learn to talk and gain confidence being that it's typically slower paced and now I'm able to go to bussier airspace and for the most part keep up. I'm definitely getting better researching while offline and putting what i learned to practice on network. I dont want to forget that i once was new talking to atc and started real flying when i was 12 and how nervous i was starting. I do feel that if there was a guard frequency it could be used to help other pilots with questions. I feel that It's our job as pilots to help teach next generation and inspire new enthusiasts to go further than just doing low passes loops and VFR. Flying shouldn't be what it's turned into real or in simulation which is expensive and something you can only do if you have money almost more like a golf club. LEARN IFR, learn missed approaches, holds, airspaces, etc.
There is a real world freq for pilot conversation. Guard is for emergencies only. It's not that hard to private message someone .
Rule number 1 is just like real life, one cannot have conversations on the frequency, not even to say hello (although I've heard a few break that rule). Except on one frequenxy, there's 123.45 for conversing.
Saying hello to someone is very normal, also in real world atc communications so perfectly acceptable I’d say, as long as it doesn’t turn into a full conversation. You usually say hello or good day the first time you contact atc or when you leave their frequency.
I fully support anything that removes troublemakers and clowns from a simulation service, yeet 'em with the banhammer if it'll make it a better environment!! However, the wording of the other rules really makes me take a step back from making the jump to VATSIM. My dad is a pilot and I love everything there is about aviation, but I can never be a pilot due to medical reasons so flight sims are the best I can manage. The standard ATC in MSFS is a mess, and after hundreds of hours in flight sims VATSIM looks like the thing I've hoped for, but I constantly find myself doubting whether or not I could do what VATSIM controllers ask in the time they want it, especially in busy traffic areas. I've had some awful experiences on payware developer forums because there's always one person who wants to ruin it for everyone, and I've heard stories of impatient VATSIM controllers, even some in the comments for this video. The VATSIM rules demand experience in a live ATC environment, but outside of literally getting a pilot's license there's no other way to do it. Without any kind of training or introductory system in place to where you can make mistakes, not annoy the controllers, and get comfortable, it's an exceptionally daunting prospect to even try to get into.
I think you are mistaken in thinking VATSIM 'demands' experience in an ATC controlled environment. In fact it provides that experience. The new rule statements may sound harsh at first, but they really only try to differ spruce from hay. There are numerous events all over the network for new members to get aquainted with the procedures, which - and what could be wrong with that - try to be as realistic as possible. Look, take me as an example: I have been a VATSIM member since 2004. My first flight on VATSIM was in 2020. In 2004 I was too afraid to actually join the network. Then I gave up flightsimming. Then came the announcement for MSFS2020 and in 2019 I bought xPlane - 'cause I couldn't wait... Then I joined the group around flightdeck2sim, and suddenly live ATC VATSIM flights seemed inevitable. I spent days lingering around my local international airport, and listening to the ATC procedures. And finally I jumped in. And it went OK. And after a time, people recognize me at my home airport. And now, whenever I fly in, in the middle of the night, someone would say "hey, welcome back..." or you will notice other things, by which you can tell they know you're at home here... (e.g. turning you in for a 3nm final out of nowhere... TYvm 😅) That's cool! Don't be afraid!!
There's beginner-friendly areas in VATSIM eg Edinburgh. Come at a time where there's service but not too much traffic. Indicate in the flight plan comments that you are inexperienced. That's how I do it. And it's great!
Thank you for this video mate. As a controller myself, the new rulles really answer the complaints and problems we face daily on frequency and in general the behavior of many pilots. VATSIM has done a good job fixing these issues :)
What airport do u controll
@@zbvmn1525 Currently in Norway as S2
I'm all for folks following rules and trying for realism. Love the idea of keeping non-operational chat to a minimum, but as a newer msfs pilot who has shot about 200 IFR flights with realism on high and try knowing all departure and (anticipated) arrival procedures, now I feel a little too intimidated to try vatsim. If the workload gets too high and I screw up, then I'm afraid of being reprimanded. How much leeway do they give to newbie pilots on vatsim (especially if I'm trying an IFR approach in a 152 using steam gauges because I'm almost bored with G1000 automated approaches)?
You receive far more leeway than in real life. These changes are largely to provide supervisors with more authority to deal with troublemakers. As long as you can do the basic things outlined and make an honest effort, you will be fine. The controllers deal with very new pilots constantly. If we didn't, we just wouldn't control anymore.
Why not follow what Infinite Flight did by creating two different servers of Vatsim. The "general" server where everyone even zero hour pilots can learn, make mistakes, and be taught what they need to. Then the "expert" server could be limited by say a minimum of 150 hrs on Vatsim and a short 20 question test on the aircraft you are typed to fly, grants you access to the expert server where pilot deviations can be enforced. 5 deviations in a 6 month period bumps you temporarily back down to the general server for x amount of time. The general sever is also where new virtual ATC controllers can be taught. It's not out of the realm of possibility, well within Vatsim's ability to do and quite frankly needed. There has been a generational shift that people think they can spend $60 and jump right into a full blown simulation of a multi million dollar aircraft and be spoon fed the information. The amount of people not listening to ATC while on the network is also down right wrong and frustrating. While yes it's "fake" flying, but it has become a hobby that can directly translate to real world procedures and tangible job knowledge/skill.
Sounds good theoretically, but they have enough trouble just keeping one server staffed.
@@bwc1976 Why do you think they have trouble keeping one staffed? Lack of ability to police the network....
Sometimes we just gotta exclude the group that doesn't want to be included. If you want to fly with others and make mistakes just go to MSFS multiplayer or POSCON or something. If you want to fly realistic then come to Vatsim. Not allways everyone has to be included in my opinion ;) And accept this there will probably be trouble with staffing, ATC and Supervisor wise
@@Action942Jackson lack of ability to police the network leads to being understaffed? There just aren't enough controllers and pilots to keep a large number of airports and airspaces populated the whole time. A typical evening in Germany has like 15 ATC positions online with maybe 50 aircraft flying at the same time. Split that into 2 servers? No. I'd rather have one incompetent guy every night than only half the people.
Staffing is lacking as it is for ATC on one server/network, if we add another it would be better to fly offline
When you learn aviation radio communication, you hear about radio discipline. Implementing this set of rules into Vatsim boosts the realism. Is it hard to learn? Not at all! Though there are great examples that even strict communication rules don't have to be maintained bone dry! Kennedy Steve is just one very prominent example for that!
The first one I do agree with because in real life you don’t have conversations on the frequency related to operational procedures and I think it’s a step in the right direction for more realism
123.45, Fingers is used alot for in flight chats and formation.
@@BubbaLouis-uo3ku The fact that people ignore the regs in real life doesn't make it correct. "Within the United States (including Alaska, Hawaii, and United States possessions) 123.45 MHz is authorized to be used only for non-government flight test operations, not air-to-air communications."
@@beater8687 122.75 is technically the only authorized for general aviation plane to plane use.
Bruh I disagree, I hear even real life air traffic controllers who joke around like Kennedy steve to many pilots, don’t get me wrong am not saying that we should therefore not be as serious, however I mean come on a laugh here and there doesn’t hurt.
In practice, real-world pilots and controllers can be pretty casual on comms if the situation isn't overly frantic, so enforcing a hard "no chit-chat on comms" rule is unrealistic to begin with. I can understand why they want to do that to reduce the mental load on controllers and giving more time slots on frequency for actual directions -- but it's also a rule that can be over-enforced pretty easily by (volunteer) supervisors who want to go on a power trip.
Even in the real air, a quick joke on frequency or a "hello" to your fellow airline colleagues is perfectly normal and it serves to ease the tension. Controllers and pilots are still human, they are not robots.
It's no big deal for tower or a smaller approach sector, but a busy approach or center, you're going to want the freq clear as best as possible, because even so people are going to be stepping on each other a lot.
It's also illegal in real life, but tolerated since enforcement is difficult.
That is why I don’t use the platform these days and haven’t for a long time. Prefer to actually fly in real life if in the mood for accuracy and that sort of thing. To each their own however, as I can see how it can be enjoyable, despite the framework and operational limitations etc. As long as it’s treated as an extension of the Sim experience and not taken as 100% replica of real life, it’s all good.
Yesterday i did my first ils approach in oslo, coming from hamburg...... it was going great until we got below the clouds, mind you i had realized that the clouds were quite thick above southern norway. Now when i got to polaris controlled airspace i just followed the controllers instructions, everything was going smoothly and according to plan HOWEVER as i got closer to the runway i realised i couldnt actually see anything at all, and unlucky for me it was pretty clear that i was in the eye of a thunderstorm, so as i got closer to the runway i wondered where it was, and i only first saw it too late, issued a go around and uhh i messed up my go around vectors. But luckily the controllers here in scandinavia are usually super calm and understanding, which is fantastic imo.
I think you have a good point about the frequency being for operational use only rule, but I can totally see why they put it in. Saying hello to a friend on a lot of frequencies would be perfectly fine, but on some frequencies, it really isn't (for example if you are on London Heathrow Tower saying hello to a friend, you are essentially blocking communications on a very busy frequency). I guess they have taken a ruling that if you can't do it on some frequencies, you shouldn't do it on any.
I respect the changes because I've heard too many who mess around and you can hear the chuckling and so on, but this is also a twofold issue. VS is already intimidating for new people and the changes will worry newbies from growing the community. Even as a PPL, comms was always my weakest area so people who aren't trained and actually doing their best who may get confused I worry are going to disappear before familiarizing themselves.
A lot of ground work is simple as pie, but a complicated approach with the odd curveball when you're dialed in will ruin a newbies day. Again, this isn't a Discord server, but everyone who dares try it, 99% of them are doing their best, IMO.
Theres a youtube video for that.
I think the first rule is good, if you want a conversation. Then PM or get teamspeak, discord etc
I think this is kind of understandable because I have seen myself people learning to fly an ac online, without being able to perform basic instructions just because they are not used to autopilot behaviour or are unable to control manually due to lack of practice and also lack of basic knowledge of the ac and rules in some cases. This does definitely bring down the overall professionalism over the network. That said, some minor mistakes is unavoidable even if it a season veteran, which is absolutely normal.
But on the other hand there are also controllers who expect that everyone will follow anything and everything they say to the word, even if it means pushing the pilots to their extreme even when there is no need to, like very light traffic scenerios, which unnecessarily increases the workload sometimes. But yes I still do think these expectations are fair enough to have to maintain good professionalism on the network. And most importantly, unless someone is arrogant towards others there isn't that much of an issue really. Be it a controller or a pilot, just own up to it and improve.
Even irl pilots jump to 123.45 and have a hello sometimes so, I agree with the first rule but it is there to combat the obvious problem with occupying main channels
Yea i remeber in ground school that was the channel to hop on and talk to other pilots. The rest I agree with.
I 100% welcome these changes. It’s frustrating to hear a pilot deviate from a clearance and say “well, the airplane did that not me.” Especially busy airspace like Miami Center, where the controller is not only receiving and handing off sector traffic they are also issuing IFR, VFR, ground, and takeoff clearances. There’s only so much one person can handle and every extra second they have to waste with individuals doing whatever they want takes away from everyone else following the rules. Personally, I don’t think the rules are strict enough.
I really would like to emphasise that even Vatsim is for fun, a hobby, something done in our sparetime. it is NOT a professional training setting where you learn to master accurate phraseology and procedures. I can also assure you that I have flown in MSFS enough times to know that the plane would suddenly do something unexpected for no apparent reason.
My first flight on Vatsim was in the MSFS 787-8 (yes, the vanilla one) doing an oceanic, without even knowing that I needed oceanic clearence or anything of the sort. The controller was very helpful and helped me to learn what was needed, but I could hear him sigh inside himself when I told him that my MSFS 787 couldn't even do a direct.
"Operational use only" makes me wonder about using a specified frequency for formation coordination now.
I think these are acceptable. I'm rather new still (about 40 flights done so far) but learning the aircraft basics I'd a necessity.
These rules seem to say "know the basics that we always required and told you about in our initial training material" and don't want to discourage people who don't know all details about ATC, airspace, Airways, procedures and navigation. Which imo you shouldn't have to know for a first flight. We want more pilots! Busier airspace is more fun! Especially with all the new ATC being trained right now.
Realism in both form and function in a sim environment are very important, especially so when the sim can be used as a genuine study aid and is recognized as such. Learning and abiding by ATC instructions and correctly using these systems is a key element in both a sim and real life. I completely support VATSIM in these rules changes. Will I ever be a real pilot, nope, but I enjoy the challenge of learning the full system as it exists in the real world. Love your videos!
I'm a student pilot in real life and jeez, often the simmers are stricter than they are out there. I don't understand why they don't just open a discrete frequency for air to air communication (=chatting) like in real life with the 123,456MHz and everybody would be happy... Also I don't understand why they prohibit the 121,5MHz. I always have it tuned in on my radio 2 just as I do in real life.
I have yet to take the plunge into VATSIM, but to be fair these rules do make me a bit vary.
Not only will I have to shell out for a lot of extra stuff for the sim, make it work, make it stable, but I also have to fly an aircraft that is compatible with the waypoints.
If I am in a DC3, all I have is the default FSX GPS for an example, it doesn't have the up to date waypoints for an example, or if I am using freeware aircraft.
I get the fly heading X, do speed Y etc, that is common controls, but prepare for GUMPTA Arrival into Whatever airport... Sorry, no info on that in my aircraft or any easy way to navigate to that in a hurry.
Great video! Surprised to find out you didn’t have at least 10k subs. Very great vid again! Just subscribed!
I appreciate that!
I would fly on vatsim more but literally over 90% of my time flying is on unicom, so much for realistic
I'm probably gonna consider PilotsEdge with scheduled ATC available
I think open conversations on Guard are fine because people do it irl though 123.45 works in the US as it's not used by any ground stations
They're not suppose to do it on guard irl either
IMO 123.45 should be allowed. If Vatsim comms have been modeled to TR/RX in a 15nm radius, at least that one can be an exception. Now, related to systems I think that MAYBE they are doing that to avoid network saturation I guess? What kind of harm and saturation to the network can somebody do flying with a friend from El Salvador to Panama talking on 123.45 if there are close enough?
I also think that it will be a plus to allow 123.45 to have just one comms system. Not everybody have or wants to use discord for example, and a quick message on 123.45 might be better to just ALT+Tab and using other messaging systems to send a message.
Where can 123.45 can work the best? In Vatsim first wings. Somebody taking off close to somebody to guide and help and ask questions and talk about the simulation, what to expect and all that..
My two cents.
EDIT: don't get me wrong, I like the new rules. I'm a real world pilot and being as close as the real thing is a plus, but I understand this is a simulation and exceptions can be made. If the FAA, CAA, EASA or everybody else start being so tough we wouldn't even have Boston Joe, Kennedy Steve, and so on, and upon every funny ATC message they gave they would have been punished.
So, I'm a private pilot IRL and currently doing an integrated ATPL course, and I've been interested in practicing communication on bigger airfields for a longer time, which of course would lead me to Vatsim. Thing is, I can't do anything on these kinds of airfields without the proper charts, which is where I've only ever seen reference to Navigraph, which is of course behind a paywall, that I'm not necessarily ready to pay, considering how expensive the IRL training already is. So is there a possible way to get the for Vatsim relevant charts without that subscription, or is that literally the only possibility?
I got you. I'll list some stuff when I get back to my pc
Depends on in which country you do your flying. If you go to the offical vatsim page you will find links to regions and from there links to different vatsim organisations for different countries. They then usually provide links to charts and very often these are the charts released by the aviation authorities in the respective country.
Hey, chartfox is a free aviation charts plattform.
@@Aceuchiha. Thanks, I'll make sure to check it out👍🏼
@@guitarheaven1747 I haven't used Chart Fox, but I saw it mentioned in another video. Looks like you use your existing Vatsim account to log in and is pretty accurate.
My only complaint is there are many people flying non study level aircraft. There are many aircraft that cannot easily fly holds or diversions, there are default planes that cannot use sids and stars. They assume everyone is flying a pmdg or similar level plane.
I've tried listening in as an observer and I can't half understand the controllers a lot of the time. How the heck am I going to be able to read back what I can't understand? Guess I'll just stick with pilot2atc. I flew real C-172's way back in the day, 1970's, and didn't have much problem, so I'm not a stranger to using the radio.
I started flying on VATSIM 20 years ago and controlling not that long thereafter. Back then, all of these rules were sort of the expectation. As an S3 controller, you were to treat all comms and instructions as if it were real world. I don't have a problem with any of this.
I haven't flown on Vatsim in a long time, but I can completely see how the introduction of MSFS is causing many issues. Before MSFS, most of the people on Vatsim were, in one way or another, enthusiasts. Really, it took the decision of a lot of money to make it happen, between computers, peripherals, software, and airplanes. Today, all one needs is an Xbox, which many have already. People do take the Vatsim environment seriously and they want a professional experience, and all it takes is one person goofing off to ruin the day for everyone.
Player: "I though it was just a hobby."
VATSIM: "Your a real pilot."
Player: "But I have never flown a plane IRL.
VATSIM: "Your a real pilot."
Player: "But Its only on a computer."
VATSIM places index finger on player's lips
"SHHHHHH.... Your a real pilot."
Feel free not to participate in the network if you're not interested in simulating real life operations. That's what VATSIM solely exists for. Plenty of other places to fly unrealistically.
@@wurzzzz I struck a nerve. good.
Player: I’m a real fake pilot, this is just a hobby.
VATSIM: NO!!
I tend to agree with all the rules as it increases general competence levels of the pilots and therefore also realism. This includes rule #1. This rule also applies in real life aviation. But I guess it is a bit up to the ATCO to apply flexibility. While in real it is also forbidden to use ATC for non related chatter, I yet have to meet an ATCO that told of a pilot for saying "hello" to another pilot. Alternatively the frequency 123.45 MHz is often used for pilot to pilot chatter while it is prohibited. I find it more annoying when pilots think it is appropriate to use 121.5 for their chatter.
I think they should add that’s it’s required to state intentions on Unicom. I hate seeing where I’m pushing back and an airplane pushes back with out saying anything and we crash
Still in a big doubt if something really is gonna change, as there only now is a real rule to pin someones mistake to. I do hope something is gonna change! Since MSFS came to Vatsim we got a lot of new community members wich is only more fun and realistic. But the average level of pilots went down with it. So lets hope we can now fly again together in a more realistic way!
I agree that I'm not sure what, if anything, will really change. But the wording of the rules, especially voice comms, bothers me.
Lol pilot edge is more relaxed on comms. But Vatsim might be worth trying now for me.
I rarely fly on VATSIM. These rules aren't nonsense. Especially the "chat" rule. However, the word "PROMPTLY" in the Section B8(c) for example is concerning. Most of us are flying in jetliners which actually is for 2 persons and if the pilot receives a (for example) deviation to a an unplanned nav point especially when on approach/departure, sometimes would be impossible to PROMPTLY execute a command given by the ATC. So, VATSIM should also instruct the ATCs to be patient with the pilots. Even though people would love to be as realistic as it can be, it will never be that real. Like, one APP controller apart from his/her real job, is also giving all clearances, taxi instructions, and etc. likewise, the pilot is also busy with his/her controls.
Well in all my time flying on vatsim if you're taking too long to do something usually the controller will call you and give you that last instruction again, at that point you can explain whatever issues you're having, or you can be proactive and message the controller privately and explain what's going on.
The key is "too long". It is all about patience, emphaty, and common sense. As a pilot I know that sometimes the ATC is handling more than a real ATC would, so I don't mind if they issue a hold, or vector me to some point, or make me wait on ground "too long" because they are dealing with others. All I am saying the ATC should do the same and show emphaty. I am not saying when they issue a hold at an unlisted fix I never do it or do it after 15 minutes. But i need to aviate first, then I will do what I am told (if it is reasonable), then I will readback. And for that, it is silly to send a mesage saying what is going on. Obviously I am trying to fly an A330 all by myself. ATC knows it.
It's not that serious. The issue is we have pilots who claim they are going to comply with and instruction and are figuring it out and then fly across your entire airspace without doing what they were instructed to do.
If you communicate a difficulty and keep ATC on the loop, it will probably be fine. If you are concerned about setting up the FMC not quickly enough, don't worry. In real life both pilots actually have to review FMC changes before executing them, so it takes about the same amount of time in the sim actually.
The section B12 is good, but we need a counterpart there, you can't wait for half an hour, ir even for an hour to receive a clearance, wich happens with me quite a lot, in this case i Will disconnect and use another network? Or I simply fly offline? The rule presupposes that ATCs are perfect, wich are not, and are actually far from It.
Thoses rules make sense in the current situation, by the way, till now, every controllers I encounter has always been very kind with people that do no meet the basic requirements.
This is a great thing this new code of conduct but it would have been great to make a rule to force people to speak on Unicom by voice or text because I have seen so many people not using unicom and just landing or taking off at an airport like they own the place without annoncing their intentions and that piss me off to be honest !
Yes. That I can agree on, because even if you don't know the correct phrases to use, then just say what the heck you are doing.
I think limiting the non operational conversation is a good thing. If you want to talk to your buddy, there is literally a million other ways to talk to him that doesn’t tie up the VATSIM fq’s
I think a quick hello is ok. In real life we do this. One of my instructor did that after he came in for the landing and I was holding short. I personally didn’t reply cause I was busy taxing on the runway but my instructor I was flying with at the time said so and so said hi to you so I quickly reply with a quick hey back.
As a real world pilot that cannot get a medical clearance anymore, I think the rules make perfect sense.
As for that first rule, I don’t read that as you can’t say hello, but if you’re going to say hello, do it short and professionally and be done with it. Papa kilo 757 good afternoon nice to see you, AE 265… And don’t do that on a traffic control frequency… Like if you’re in bravo class airspace and you’re talking to approach, that’s not the time to even make a professional introduction.
But it would be best of course, to just leave it out completely.
I should also add that it is a network for learning, and even with the new rules there are going to be people that struggle as they are learning and I’m sure that is to be expected. But the point is to push people to learn and to not accept mediocrity as a standard. Overtime it should reduce some of the garbage that happens on the network which I have heard many times, and quite frankly is rather annoying.
There are folks that show up that barely know how to start the simulator, let alone speak to a controller.
Look, as a controller operating in busy airspace I LOVE these new code of conduct regulations. But the thing is, how are they going to moderate this? I still need to call supervisors the same way as I used to before the implementation of the new COC so I still have the same increased workload during a ".wallop" because I have to tell the supervisor in detail which COC rules apply to the incident and I do not have time for that when I am busy. Most supervisors don't even care or are waiting/investigating too long what the pilot is doing. I have enough hours to understand when someone is trying and someone actually being ignorant to the instructions given or clearly unable to perform basic instructions like a heading. Lots of discussion material for the people at BoG. Thanks for this video!
Controllers should have some sort of "squawk 7700" button, that would direct a superviser to that area and listen in on what is going on.
a month back, i was doing a long haul, sydney to hong kong, tried to stay up but fell asleep as i passed over brisbane, and plane kept flying over busy airspace over hong kong, and had controllers trying to reach me for contact, i woke up an hour later of all that, and i was disconnected from the network. totall fine, my fault, i agree, apologized in the pm that it was my fault leaving unattended over a very busy airspace.
what the suprevisor did was, disconnected me from network, fine i take that blame.
but also deactivated my account, asked me open support ticket, and now in support they want to see my driving license and passport with my face and name on it, along with the id no clearly visible ?? hell no, i am not giving up my real life credentials for an online game,
i know its serious simming but we all come here to chill and relax only at the end of day. i told them off i am not giving them a damn thing. left vatsim since then.
these bunch of stick up rules are just so BULLSHIT. also i dont know how these rules stand the EU GDPR laws ?
From an outsider perspective, this makes me not want to bother. I've tried looking into Vatsim and it already sounded like you pretty much have to go to a real world flight school just to know what's going on. I get aiming for realism, but Vatsim almost sounds elitist. You either already know everything to get on, or just stay away. I haven't really found anything in between.
Are there any casual (for lack of a better term) options? A network that allows for mistakes, isn't super strict, and allows for regular conversation That would be something more my speed since I doubt I'll ever be proficient enough for Vatsim, but also don't know any others that play to have a group fly with. Some sort of beginner friendly ATC would be great, but I'd rather a more open coms if it came down to it.
I did a session this morning with ZLAController. That B8 Section is going to be the one that will really have to be inforced. When people at a Bravo can't readback a clearance its sad now days. And I'm not talking about the new pilots with less the 100 hours. Its the 1k hours and more. As for the first one, the wording, by letter of the law, is going to be interesting. How do they expect pilots flying in formation to communicate, via private message only?
I get the intent, but they need a better way to convey how critical it is to keep frequency clear.
I'd argue there's a bigger issue of actually having consequences for breaking aforementioned rules, but that's another video for another day.
@@hochmaniac This is going to make the busy airspaces (for expample LA / Boston ) from having the interactions and non critical talk down. That and the read back part, gives hope for the center guys working top down
One might argue that formation communication would fall under operational comms
@@lyaneris I agree with you 110% but by wording if it becomes a friendly conversation, then what?
@@ArchNDA Then you make sure the frequency is not used and there is noone who might get annyoed and reports you. There needs to be a wallop anyways, it's mostly for controllers/pilots and supervisors to have a better frame of reference
No wonder I said Hi to Andrew “the father” in NY event Tuesday night and got crickets lol!
I mean hey if your busy I get it but damn even NY ATC IRL has some fun over the radios.
Yes real as it gets but let’s not forget to have fun when we can.
Probably because it's weird to say hi to someone you've never met...
I agree with the first rule being stupid. I don't chat up people on Unicorn, but I'll normally say something to she3d (Like Happy Birthday) or acknowledge other pilots on freq.
Every other rule makes perfect sense, especially the pilot proficiency rule. Way too many "my FMC is broken" cats these days. It's very rare IRL that a triple redundant IRU/ADIRS system would fall. Also very rare that the multiple ADCs or FMC Head Units would fail either, and they always have back ups. So that was welcome to see.
I still don't see how all this gets enforced when a controller's only weapon in .wallop and SUPs are few and far between.
I wish I had that confidence to talk with ATC, I'm a big fan of aviation but when it comes to ATC i'm not the smartest person.
100% agree with them, it is a learning environment, but there has to be some bar of entry. Having people with absolutely no clue wrecks it for others.
The chat thing kinda has to be written like that, if they leave it open to interpretation it will be abused. However, appropriate to circumstance a ‘Hi Bob’ shouldn’t really lead to any body lodging a complaint against you.
Depending on the interpretation of Rule 2 - it could be argued that it could make the SIM unrealistic, in a TCAS event you would have other priorities first... Aviate, navigate, communicate.. not communicate first.
yeah taht shouldnt be a thing, if atc has done such a bad job that you need YOUR plane to tell you how to avoid another plane instead of atc looking at their radar, they shouldnt expect the pilot to give them a call if they cant be bothered seperating them and keeping track of everyone
@@LoneWolf-se1nc exactly.
Responding to RAs are explicitly allowed by the CoC. Read the rules.
Good rules. The first one should be up to ATC. A simple hello is okay and I’m sure ATC will allow it, unless you’re literally clogging frequencies. I doubt it’ll be fully enforced unless it’s disruptive.
Everything is ultimately about how disruptive it is and what the supervisor thinks is okay. I've never heard of a controller getting mad over a "hello". It's those that chat on a busy frequency that this rule exists for. It's a bigger waste of time to call a supervisor than just tolerate it, so myself and most controllers I know are pretty lenient.
All ounds good to me. I'd like to be able to use open frequencies for communication to company Ops or dispatch as my VA runs a live OCC. But, there are ways around this. Especially with PMDG GFO on the horizon. Not using the gaurd freq. is a bit odd. Then again if there are as many random noises and meows on VATSIM as in the real world it makes sense.
What VA are you in?
@@wurzzzz Mid-Continent
I really hope that the operational use only rule won't be followed to a tee, theres so many circumstances in real life where pilots may talk about something non operational on frequency, theres even a bunch of popular vids (especially kennedy steve) where this happens.
Sure but these are 0.001% of all transmissions in real life. You get controllers and pilots on VATSIM who want to be cool and be the next Boston John or whatever and all imitate it. So the number of times you hear this kind of nonsense is WAY higher. It can get very annoying quickly (and isn't funny or cool).
The real world weather is interesting. It used to be preferred weather is VATSIM weather so all have the same weather. VATSIM weather is usually the same as real world weather but can varying a bit. For the rest, glad they addressed this problem.
That one's the one I worry about, it can be tricky if you want weather for a VFR flight, now you have to match the wind, temperature, and pressure, as they change, without pausing, at all altitudes...
Strict procedures are what make vatsim so unique and great. If you are struggling to get the hang of it, try spawning into a busy airport and just listening to what’s being said. Maybe try a more basic aircraft to start with so you can focus less on flying and more on navigation and talking to ATC. I found watching livestreams of others flying on vatsim very helpful to understand all the procedures for different phases of flight
I don't think that will work for everyone. I believe is the words of good old John Dewey, "learning by doing". In many of these cases there is only one way to learn these ways and that is to do it and then take the mistakes (because mistakes will happen) as learning opportunities. But if the ATC's and other pilots don't see that as well and respect it, then it will never become a good experience. I have heard a good amount of real life ATC chatter, where pilots mix up frequencies, have to get things repeated several times, etc.
I think in general the rule changes are alright, there are good points being made and some I don’t understand why (Guard is a frequency we aren’t allowed to use? I’ve been treating that how you would in real life)
My view on vatsim is, it aims for professionalism but is also a learning platform. I understand wanting people to be able to do procedures and know their aircraft, but also some things really won’t come up until you fly online. As for the first rule, it’s partially understandable but I don’t like the idea of following it to the letter. In real life people say ‘hi’ and small stuff like that, find an empty frequency to coordinate, etc, and I think that makes things better. It’s always nice to be recognized or recognize someone and be able to say hi or congratulate a controller or other pilot on something or compliment them. I’ve been treating radios on Vatsim how I do in real life. Also, guard frequency should be a usable frequency as it would be in real life.
I generally find myself saying to treat it like real life (no singing or making loud and annoying noises all the time on frequency, I witnessed something like that a couple months ago in ATL) but also not super strict and rigid due to the nature of the network. I think if people want that super rigid atmosphere, they should go to something like PilotEdge or IVAO (I’ve never used those networks but I’m sure hello’s and stuff are allowed) and leave vatsim for slightly less professional, still a learning environment (within reason of course, requiring pilots to know their plane enough to be able to fully comply is reasonable because if you don’t understand vectors, holding altitudes, and following speed instructions, you really need to do a lot of learning off the network before you even have a place on the network.
I’m incredibly tired so this is probably a bunch of gibberish but I can clarify anything I said at anyone’s request.
Good comments all around, I enjoyed reading your opinion on this. I think I agree with your points.
"Hi" and similar, even small conversations are not going to be a problem. A controller or fellow pilot won't call a supervisor on you for that. I'd like to be able to use 212.5 like in real life. I think it's because it would have to be monitored constantly, that they forbid it. Also, until afv it wasn't as easy to listen to a second frequency as atc
From my understanding when I read the rules back in the day. Everything stated in this video is already in place I thought. So what are the changes from the previous rules. Sounds like to me there just reaffirming what was already on the books. Maybe this was just a Vatsim announcement to discourage bad actors from coming on the network and creating chaos that ruins the experience for everybody else. Just my thought CHeers Dion
drinking game, for every time you hear "vatsim" take a shot and go find a new liver before the video ends
Over a year and I have yet to make a decent ATC flight.
There is never anyone using this 💩
Hey Hoch! Do you think you could do a video on how to set up Vatsim on MSFS? I’ve been trying to learn about how to get into it but haven’t found a good video on YT on how to do it! Thanks!
Do you mean a video how to install the VATSIM client? Or something else?
@@hochmaniac the client, setup, getting it ready on MSFS, etc.
@@matthewlerner4135 I agree
I think they're just trying to be strict because there was too much fooling around. But at the end, of course they're not going to ban somebody just saying 'hello'. There's always a certain level of tolerance.
Unfortunately there are a few outlier controllers that cannot handle a little power authority acting like they have to show some exertion to let everyone know they have this granted power!
I think the last one is really going to get me. Half of the time MSFS’s weather doesn’t work. It’ll just go clear skies and 29.92. So if my buddies and I want to do vatsim its going to be a pain in the butt to not only get the sim running well, but the weather as well.
I think as long as you select real world weather and take what you get from the sim no one can fault you. Even Active Sky isn't a perfect simulation of the weather at times. The main problem is radar controllers were seeing two aircraft with the same indicated speeds traveling at 50+ knots different ground speed. This causes huge problems for separating traffic in the enroute environment where this kind of difference can't exist.
Very good to see VATSIM reacting with these rule changes.
I think all of these rules have been in place for years as recommendations. I think they are all good. Why would anyone need to hear you saying him to your buddy? Surely discord or other such apps could be used for such comms.
I wish it was forbidden to give pilot to pilot runway use instructions or orders.
You can always chat in discord, etc.
I don’t think it’s too much. In fact, it’s almost not enough. The main thing I disagree with, I think it’s stupid that we can’t use 121.500, you’d think that would prevent a lot of issues with other frequencies being used for that purpose.
I don't know that the first rule is all that big of an issue. It's basically the same for real-world radio etiquette at least according to US FAR/AIM regs. I think it's better to take the approach of coming on strict and letting off when appropriate as opposed to coming on soft and trying to be strict only when necessary. On a real-life busy frequency, it's absolutely inappropriate to say hey to a friendly pilot or controller. But if it's quiet, no one has an issue with it.
In real aviation, pilots, and even controllers, do occasionally say "hi" to each other, even on controlled frequencies. Its tolerated if it is short. Having a more extensive conversation (whole sentences) will get you invited to visit the air-to-air channel, 122.75. On non-controlled channels (Unicom) this is tolerated more, because "its just us pilots", however, pilots can and do yell at each other for gumming up the channel. Thus it varies by channel. Saying "hi" on a busy center channel that is directing heavy aircraft isn't really tolerated. It happens, but I suspect only because the center controller does not want to waste the frequency to yell at the offender.
I agree on that. I think Vatsim should have phrased it "excessive use of the channels", because then it is always up to pilots and ATC's to get a feel for the situation themselves. If it is a quiet airport with a couple of planes, then I little personal chatter won't hurt anyone. But on a busy day with lots of planes, you keep it strictly to business.
Thanks for the nice video. I think the rule changes are good. As for rule one, you could always jump on a totally different channel on comms 2 that does not interfear with Vatsim and talk to your buddy, or even use discord or the likes.
As an C1 ATC in germany, Rule 1 is not again a Hello etc. This is mostly not a big deal. We have often in europe big Streamers who flying a to b and then some kids who think now they must interview theire streamer because they can hear them now etc.
The topic know your airplane and fly as IFR also a NAV point who is not in your plan is sadly everyday a thing. For example I send a plane cordinated with approach to a DB463 fix (on the transtion who he later will be vectored to EDDB) this point is in a straigt line from DB461 to DB467 so in your FMC this point is not shown to make less visual distraction you get often an unable. I have automessage alone for this pilots, here are some who only for special pilots, sadly this are the same guys declaring an Emergency because the autopilot stop working:
.dctfms How to fly a Direct: 1)go to LEGS page 2)TYPE THE DIRECT IN EXAMPLE DT442 3)press LLSK1 on LEGS first page to paste the waypoint to the first position. 4)press EXEC
.dctmcdu How to fly a direct 1)select "DIR"-Key on the MCDU 2)Enter Direct for Example DT442 3) Press DIR TO INSERT*
.pilotknownothing Sorry my friend but it's looks like you didn't know how to fly your plane, please view bevor your next Vatsim flight a tutorial Video for Example on TH-cam. I hardly recommend you to view videos to basic of flying, how to program a fmc or mcdu, how to use a autopilot. Thank you for your understanding
.tabus How to fly a transition: 1) go to your arrival page 2) select the type and rwy for your approach, ie ILS05R 3) select via on the left hand side 4) select the transition 5) almost every transition is named after the runway direction ie 05 for rwy05R and 05L
.tgtn You can find a transition under VIA on your arrival page. Transitions are usually named after the rwy direction ie 05 for rwy05R and 05L.
Bruh so what if your flying an old sim such as Fsx steam edition and the plane you fly can only come with a basic FMC, then how you suppose to follow that? Now I know what your gonna say “just save up for a payware plane” and that’s easier said then done. Am currently unemployed for various reasons which I won’t go into, and my computer hardware isn’t sufficient enough to be able to handle some of the payware planes. Oh and not to mention FSX extremely out of date AIRARC.
@@united1super544 this is no big deal. Writte in the remark Basic-Rnav and use as equipment code that you only can use vor ndb and can use an ils (you find this codes in Wikipedia).
Then you get handled like a dc-6 or dc-3 or an old 737-200.
You must then only say to any new radar controller you get send to "Callsign over Waypoint xxx FL XXX basic rnav" so the controller knows you have only basic rnav equipment and need for safety reason becaus insufficient equipment radar vectors for arrival and departure
This is a game for people who are not real world pilots. I agree it should not be used for chatter. But holds, headings, etc. are a bit much. Also, my sim sometimes freezes right after take off. Will I get the boot for that?
Its advertised as a virtual simulation that mimicks real world operations, not a game. A ton of real world pilots have used it as a stepping stone to better enhance their real world training. Why not just join a multiplayer lobby instead if using real world procedures is too much?
@@treyh89 I understand your point. At the same time how many real world student pilots screw up headings, holds, read back, etc. I know an instructor who when she first became a pilot violated class B airspace. How many times do you think controllers told her where to go abd how to get there? She said she finally realized she screwed up right when she looked down and saw the terminal about 1500 feet below her. BTW she was in a 172. Sadly, she was killed in a crash with a student pilot about 8 years ago while practicing stall recovery.
My point is we are not all real world pilots. We all have a love for aeronotics and we all want to have fun. So maybe we should lighten up a bit when people screw up.
@@treyh89 it's advertised as both a sim AND a game. It has a lot of real world simulation aspects, but also officially released fictitious aircraft like the hypersonic jet from Maverick and the ship from the Halo games.
But to the point of Vatsim, the comments seem pretty divided. There's a lot of people that have been turned off from trying to gain additional realism (myself included) due to what seems like an elitist attitude when it comes to using it. You can't use it unless you know everything, but you can't learn if you can't use it. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground for a casual simmer looking to just have fun in open multiplayer.
@@Nareimooncatt I agree that Flight Sim is a game/simulation. I think the issue is that Vatsim has historically been a very structured/realistic(as can be) environment. For those that have been apart of the network for awhile have seen a degradation of quality with the new influx of connections. With the release of Microsoft Flight Sim more and more people are joining the network without having a baseline of aeronautical knowledge. I’m all for the network being used as a learning environment, but some ground rules have to be set. Pilots don’t learn how to fly by loading up in a 747 in LA for their first flight. Even in the real world pilots don’t pattern work at your major Class B airports (LAX, NYC, MIA, etc). In response to the comment above, yes pilots screw up all the time while in training. That’s why we train constantly. The difference is when they screw up in training, especially in Class B airspace, they can still get a number. A pilots status as “Student” doesn’t give them a free pass. Someone is still held responsible(typically the instructor). Now I do hope Vatsim can somehow setup an environment that allows new pilots to practice at Class C or D airports for instance without that “disconnect” penalty. I don’t blame the newer pilots because they don’t know what they don’t know. A lot of them join after watching streamers who may teach bad habits, and they want to join in on the fun. Also it’s not fair that ATC are held to such high standards and rules but the pilots basically have free reign. All the ATC in the network are people enjoying the hobby. If the pilots continue to get away with breaking rules and doing what they want, then we may see a downward trend of active ATC. Just my 2 cents. I joined in 08 and it greatly assisted me in my training. I hope it’s able to offer others the same. Remember though that we don’t have to log into Vatsim. We choose too. There’s plenty of multiplayer lobby’s that aren’t as “strict”.
@@treyh89 I think a large part of the problem is these are people that enjoyed the open communication and craziness of FSX and want something like that for fs2020. For whatever reason, there is no open multiplayer in the sim. You have to use external programs to do that, and it sounds like Vatsim is the only one that does so reliably. Other programs are closed off, so you can't necessarily talk to those you are seeing in the game.
1 person says hello, then another says hello and another and another etc etc etc. Soon enough the frequency gets clogged with people saying hello. After all, if one person can do it why can't everyone? And that's the way people think, and that's the reason for the rule. It's simple, if people want to chat online, use one of the thousands of other methods available. They tried limiting the rule to controlled areas only, but it never worked because users (mainly newbies) would chat there too, hence the clampdown. It wouldn't have been necessary if people hadn't pushed it beyond the original limits.
You can technically say hello, air traffic control and pilots say hello to each other irl as well. It has now became part of the phonics
I've wanted to try vatsim for a while now, but I feel like this makes it too intimidating and raises the barrier to entry. I wonder if you'll see less new people try vatsim. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to learn without trying, and now it's agaisnt the rules to not know and politely ask for help.
I actually just started VATSIM last week, and I can say that in many ways reducing the chatter on frequency makes it easier to listen for things you actually have to follow. I recommend doing a VFR flight at an airport near a busy airport so that you can listen in on frequency and talk minimally with the controller!
@@coneypylon Thank you for the advice. I really do want to learn, and that does sound like a good idea. I have a lot of fsx experience, but only just made the switch to the new fs. So far I'm having trouble with simple stuff like finding my transponder in certain aircraft and setting nav frequencies in others or wanting to use the working vnav buttons but being confused that the flight computer doesn't actually work correctly if you want to input all your info and/or change your flight plan. Maybe I just need to get better? Do you or anyone else reading this happen to know if the majority of players on vatsim use different planes that the ones the game comes with? It seems like the default aircraft lack too much functionality to obey the rules about realism.
@@Capt_Lucy I use a mix of default XPlane planes and some addons. Mostly, I find that sticking to one while you really learn it deeply is worth it - the default Cessna will do more than you think and can really get you far
i swear this guy is shroud undercover
How is VATSIM going to handle pilots that have an intermittent network connections or just a high ping?
Second, I think rule #1 wont be enforced too much unless you get crazy in voice. Otherwise, I think we will be okay.
Apparently the new rules don't apply since i routinely hear the howdy do you do billy susie bob concersation?
I like ALL the rules, good.
great video mate really informative
Thanks so much!