I understand the future timeline had to remain hopeless until trunks brought peace, but with how much we know about the afterlife from the main timeline it just makes goku, king kai, and the rest of the z fighters seem like they couldn't be bothered to attempt to help.
Goku was killed by natural cause so he could not be brought back with dragon balls nor did he have a body to train in. Heroes are granted a body in the otherworld when they are killed in battle defending their world. So Goku couldn’t save the day in the future.
@@crimsonking4151 it doesn't even matter that Goku died of natural causes. King kai didn't help Bulma locate New Namek like he did at the end of the saiyan saga. Thus resulting in her reverse engineering her spaceship into the time machine. Many more factors could have resulted in F.Gohan not dying, and other Z fighters being brought back with the Namekian dragon balls. Goku already gets his body regardless because of all the good he has done in previous arcs. It is even shown to us with the above manga panel. Such as the fact that Roshi is still alive, and he can do the mafuba technique. A move that took F.Trunks less than an hour to learn, and works on god level opponents. Or Gohan not having the proper knowledge to improve himself, and struggles to survive thinking he got stronger correctly. A theoretically ssj2 f.Gohan at that point would have been enough for both 17 and 18, since they always resort to jumping. Heck if f.Gohan got a proper 1v1, he could have defeated 17 and 18 by himself.
Can you imagine Future Goku sitting in the afterlife and suddenly seeing not only an evil version of himself but another good version of himself just appear and be able to reach power he may never achieve?
Seeing an evil version of himself turn Super Saiyan Rosè and seeing another version of himself turn Super Saiyan Blue 2 God SSJ Forms would motivate Future Goku to go beyond SSJ3
At LEAST SS3. With those decades of training, he could've gotten that far. Like you said, the Z fighters and other dead heroes would've pushed him. Its crazy to think that they had a solution for Trunk's future and they wrre like "Nah, wr gonna let his life be trash.'
@@QaamansLand I think it was writing. Goku has a history of trying to make something happen.... He was a great strategist in Z. He typically would tried to do something to change their fortunes.
@@QaamansLand alright hear me out, what if with the large amount of dead souls the soul machine got clogged and janemba was born and killed all the z fighters in the future afterlife
I assumed Baba died in the future timeline. Then again, toriyama forgets certain characters. Or Korina tower was destroyed or maybe the lookout. The future timeline is ambiguous, we may never know
@@hunter_light_18ncs oof, that's sad, i didn't even remember yajirobe in the Arc, now for the other characters like android 8, that girl from the snow village, the turtle, chi-chi and the ox king, the kids and the rest of the survivors, they all got killed by infinite zamasu.
What if there was some catastrophe in the afterlife similar to Janemba that shut down traveling between worlds? That would be an intriguing story to tell, and would explain why no one could help Future Gohan or Trunks.
I couldn't see it cause it didn't happen in the maintime and janemba came after all this even if that was the case also I feel vegeta most likely would've been in he** to cause he never got that chance to redeem himself 👀 pure writing for this bs 🤦🏾♂️
@@nyghtryder3446 He was talking to a hypothetical problem similar to the one that occurs on Janemba's movie (that wrecked the possibility to travel between living world and the other world) In the movie, Goku and Vegeta stay stuck on Other World as Janemba blocked the acess by locking King Yemma with his dimensional powers, so the dead were free to swarm on Earth. In a similar manner, maybe the Z Fighters tried to help Future Gohan and Trunks but ended up being trapped or something like that... It was stated that if someone dies already being death, his soul erases from existence. There's no Janemba in the Future Timeline, at least we don't know what happened or if he existed at all.
Pretty sure in a interview with toriyama he stated that IF King Cold has a final form similar to frieza then he would be similar in power to semi-perfect cell, but that's a IF basically confirming that the form we see of king Cold is probably his final form.
I think it’s insanely unreasonable to assume the future timeline Goku didn’t achieve SSJ2 and SSJ3 in the afterlife considering how much time had passed. The only leg up the main timeline Goku had to achieving BOTH forms is that he knew of SSJ2 because Gohan got it in front of him. But that’s it. And it took him 7 years to get both SSJ2 and a new form no one knew about, aka SSJ3. So giving him significantly more time to do the same thing with only slightly less knowledge, but also having more training partners that he will train with consistently and at least Vegeta going for the same things as him, it’s basically guaranteed that Goku would get SSJ2 and SSJ3 in the future timeline.
IDK. There's this questionable assumption I see especially with the DB fandom where people assume that more time must equal more power gains, as if that's the only factor that matters. You know what else effected Goku's ability to get stronger? The presence of villains that pushed him harder and having people around to train with. He had massive gains in the time chamber because he had Gohan to train with. And there's no reason to believe that the same things would've happened in the afterlife that allowed him to achieve SSJ2 and 3 like he did in the main timeline. If different things happen there, then there would of course be different gains. It's not just about the passage of time. In the manga, we never really know anything about what Goku did in the afterlife to get 2 and 3. In the anime, we know that Pikkon existed to serve as a powerful rival and potential training partner. If Future Goku never met Pikkon, then he wouldn't have that. But even if he did, Future Goku wouldn't be at a power level where Pikkon would be a good sparring partner. He'd be far too weak if he died during the Android Saga, as opposed to the main timeline where he died after mastering SSJ. So many things could have happened that negatively affected his ability to make the same gains that he did in the main timeline. Again, it's not just about having time. Knowing about SSJ2 helped him know there was a form beyond 1, but that was only possible due to training Gohan. He saw it in Gohan first, and then realized that it was a thing he could reach for. It's easy to take for granted now, but back then, the idea of a form beyond SSJ was kinda just hypothesized and no one knew that it was even possible. Heck, even Goku debunks this whole Time = Gains assumption. When the Dragon Team suggested that he and Gohan go back into the Time Chamber to train more so that they could be stronger than Cell, Goku explains that that's not how it works. Another year in the time chamber, according to Goku himself, wouldn't have made him much stronger, if any stronger at all. It's very possible that circumstances in the afterlife could have prevented him from getting much stronger as well. The way that the story is set up in DB allowed for what feels to viewers as a constant flow of power increase, but the story was also a series of VEEEERY specific series of events, many of which were VEEEEERY specific in setting up the characters for getting stronger. There is no requirement for that to be the case in the Future timeline or the Future afterlife. And it makes more sense that way, considering it's the timeline where Goku dies of a heart disease. Things hardly go well there.
We also should take into account the Saiyajin metabolism. Particularly how they seem to get anywhere from significantly week or two almost unable to move, based on what we have seen from Goku when they can’t get enough food and the way the scene work, Gohan is eating with bulma and trunks is made to appear as if that is the biggest quantity of food he’s had in a while. So I it follows that he will be weaker in that regard as well. Also goku could talk with gohan through king Kai and walk him through training like a coach would an athlete.
Goku asked master roshi to be revived in the sayan saga.Of course in the future timeline goku couldn't be revived cause not only he died naturally but it was also his second time,still he could have talk to gohan and advise him to train in the chamber,most likely he wouldn't have unlocked FP ssj much less ssj2 but at least he could have unlocked Super vegeta's form and that would have been enough to kill 17,18 and imperfect cell.After that goku could have teach him FP ssj and ssj2 and so on goku could teach gohan everything he learned in the otherworld.The future timeline is basically:"Dragon Ball Future but everyone stopped trying(except trunks)".
The future timelines being forcefully hopeless is so wack. I mean Bulma can build a time machine but cant find New Namek? Baba doesn't help, King Kai doesn't help. Us actually knowing why the future was so doomed would've made the story so much more impactful.
Here's the issue with the future timeline, there's like 10 different ways they could have saved the future. Things like training in the afterlife, the hyperbolic time chamber, namek dragonballs and a few other ideas i have could have easily helped them beat the androids. Looking back it seems like most of this stuff wasn't used simply to add agency to future trunks' timeline.
How could they train in the afterlife and somehow come back to save the future? How would the hyperbolic time chamber help? Gohan had been training for years and still wasn’t close to beating the androids (at least in the manga), an extra few years would achieve little. As for Trunks, he needed a trigger to actually make him go super saiyan, extra training wouldn’t have been much help either. They have no idea where New Namek is. Future Goku could get King Kai to help him contact them, but he wouldn’t actually be much help since he just instant transmissions there and wouldn’t be able to point out exact coordinates. Besides, it’d be out of character for Goku to help since he’d want to see the next generation mature and solve their own problems.
@@saucevc8353 if you were a good person in db universe they will let you keep your body in the after life and lol they even gave goku a day pass so that he could visit earth so they definingly could have trained in the afterlife then come to back help just like goku did in the buu saga. also future gohan should have been a lot stronger since he survived so many battles with 17 and 18 but it seems like toriyama either forgot saiyans are supposed get stronger after surviving deadly battles or that he just did not want him to be strong.
@saucevc8353 Saga. King Kai could just telepathically contact the Namekians to resurrect the Z-Fighters. We know in the Buu Saga that Moori did upgrade Porunga to resurrect multiple people at once. Yeah, Goku might stay dead due to his death by natural causes, but Piccolo can fuse with Kami and then everyone hops in the Time Chamber. The androids should've been scrapped years ago.
It's also sad too look at this situtation where if the Future Z warriors saw what happened to the World during the Zamasu incident, you would think that they step up and asked for a Day's pass to go in and help. By that point, im sure they would just as be as powerful as their original counterparts. Unfortunately, that doesnt matter anymore because our special Friend from the heavens decided to pull a Thanos.
Also I would like to mention that Yamcha is considerably buffed while in the afterlife. He fought 2 above cell level conbatants with EASE and CONFIDENCE. And thay was only after a small time within the afterlife!
It sucks how the grim situation of the future z-fighters’ deaths is just underselled through Toyotaro’s take on it. I don’t hate his art, but I wish they characters in super didn’t look and act so silly
I agree Qaaman Future Goku killed Future Frezia and Future King Cold quickly and gave them a chance to get off quickly which they refused. Future Goku still trained just less intensely without Future Trunks warning about the Androids. I would say Future Goku would have gotten as strong as Super Saiyan 3 training with the Future Z Fighters except Future Vegeta. Future Vegeta would have most likely been in H.F.I.L.
Give me your "quote for quote" rundown of how Goku probably spoke to Frieza and King Cold. Also explain how the major characters each reacted. I will use your comment for a future video.
@@QaamansLand Future Goku: "Hey Frezia it seems that you haven't learned your lesson back on Planet Namek and it seems that you have brought your dad. Im giving you one last chance to leave Earth and take your dad with you and never return. If not I will be forced to kill you and your dad". Future Frezia: "Saiyan you have finally shown yourself this is my chance to get revenge for the humiliation that you have inflicted on me on Namek". I will start by killing your friends and family by one by one starting with your son and the bald earthling". Future King Cold: "Oh this is a Super Saiyan this is interesting". Future Gohan would have reacted by being amazed of Goku's Super Saiyan power and would be cheering his dad to defeat Frezia and King Cold. Future Krillin would be amazed at Goku' Super Saiyan power and he would be cheering Goku to finish off Future Frezia and Future King Cold. Future Piccolo would watch on quietly and would be shocked at Goku as a Super Saiyan and his power. Future Vegeta would be jealous and would fuming at Goku's Super Saiyan transformation. Future Yamcha would be shocked at Goku's Super Saiyan transformation and would be amazed at the power of a Super Saiyan. Future Tien would look in awe at Goku's Super Saiyan Transformation and questions if he could ever reach this sort of strength and power, he would use this awe as a form of inspiration to keep on training to catch up to Goku and surpass him. Future Bulma would be amazed at Goku's Super Saiyan form and she would probably call the form cute. Future Chiaotzu would be excited at seeing Goku transform into Super Saiyan and would cheer Future Goku on in his short battle against Future Frezia and Future King Cold.
@@QaamansLand Future Freiza and Future King Cold would both charge at Future Goku with both of them punching Future Goku at the same time with Future Goku blocking the punches. Then Future Goku would teleport behind Future Frezia and Future King Cold punching them around. Eventually Future Frezia and Future King Cold would get irritated and would try all sort of moves on Future Goku such as Death Beams ,Death Saucers and a small Death Ball all of which Goku effortly blocked. Eventually Future Frezia would get so angry and frustrated he would try to send a death beam to Future Gohan which Future Goku effortly blocked and Future Goku would end the fight against Future Frezia and Future King Cold as soon as possible. Future Goku would Instant Transmission in front of Frezia and would vaporize him quickly with an energy wave then Future Goku would then vaporize King Cold with another energy wave. Then everyone would cheer over Future Goku killing Future Frezia and Future King Cold with everyone running over to Future Goku with Future Gohan and Future Krillin giving Future Goku a hug.
A few things to unravel here. Since future goku died from a natural sickness, he cannot be revived from either earth or Namkeian dragon balls. Since he died naturally, it can be implied his body became a regular spirit in the after life and he does not get to keep it. Where all regular humans go in the after life, that's where Goku is. He does not get the privileged to see King Kai because he died from a natural virus. And since he did not saved earth from a exploding cell in this timeline, he does not get the special privileged of coming back to earth for 1 day. Now of course there is other issues with this entire story arc. Since Yamacha and Tien was killed while trying to saved the earth, why couldn't they see King Kai again? Interact with him to find Dende and new Namek. They never mentioned what happen to Namekian and Dende in Trunks' timeline. So in 13 years Dende is not curious to see how Gohan is doing on earth? They have the technology, let alone the dragon balls to find out whats going on at earth or travel there. Now my issue is with the plot hole of future Vegeta. After witnessing a lower class Saiyan becomes Super Saiyan and kills your life long personal enemy instantly. This of course inspired future Vegeta to train as long as it takes to surpass future Goku. Now I agreed the other z fighters would be far weaker in the original timeline. Vegeta in either timeline should be far stronger than Goku and should not have been killed. Vegeta has trained in the gravity room for almost 3 years straight at 100-400g. He did almost 4x what Goku did. Vegeta in either timeline should of been far stronger than he is and probably at very least avoid being killed by the androids.
@@QaamansLand When Frieza killed Vegeta, he went to the afterlife momentarily, that's where he is. But again, he should be far stronger than what he is and definitely avoid being killed at the very least. Now for Piccolo and Kami, they should of been the 1st to contact King Kai immediately after their deaths. Why were they allow to interact with King kai during Saiyan and Frieza arc and not allow to interact during the android arc really makes no sense. This is the very core of a huge plot hole. And to explain the contagious virus, I'm not sure you've been next to people that were contagious sick in our lifetime and it did not affect you as much. So, if the z fighters did catch the virus, it probably did not affect them as much since its second hand. Not a deal breaker here nor a plot hole, this part can be ignored. Also Gohan and trunks does not think to train in the gravity room during the 13 years? Lets go along with story, when Gohan was killed, again no interaction with King Kai and the other z fighters in the afterlife. When the earth's population is dying during the 13 years, this does not catch the attention of Yemma? Now at this point Toriyama does have a opportunity this rewrite this story arc starting from around year 13, that does not involve time travel. What would Bulma and Trunks do if Zeno appears before them and tells them you cannot use any form of time travel? Bulma develops the concept of time travel while Gohan was still alive, so maybe Zeno appears around that time. This can be an opportunity to correct many plot holes and tell a new story. From the Namekian side we know they upgraded the porunga dragon balls because of the incident of frieza. Because of this incident, wouldn't it make sense to create more warrior types like nail? The warrior types that were killed by frieza and revived by earth dragon balls, shouldnt they have trained during the 13 to 17 years of the original timeline, heck even the main timeline. Again this can be a opportunity for Toriyama to rewrite this story starting from year 13 to 17 with no time traveling.
only way Goku is getting revived is if, a kai gives up their life, the super dragon balls are involved (even tho they wouldn’t have had any knowledge of them or there being multiple universes) or if beerus & whis go to king kai’s world and whis decides to bring back him back to life, like what he did for frieza
I disagree. I think the dragon balls being unable to bring back someone from death is a restriction of the dragon balls themselves and not a matter of the cause of death changing one’s afterlife. Had Goku not killed demon king piccolo and stopped his brother he probably wouldn’t have had the chance to go to king kai’s planet. Goku and the Z fighters are an exception just because of their actions.
Let’s be honest it’s just writing but I think an underrated opinion is that simply after gokus death or the android terror perhaps the z fighters just gave up and accepted being dead. We already saw goku in the main timeline be ok with remaining dead for what he initially intended to be for good, so perhaps that’s what happened universally the rest of the cast as they died as well
Goku saying Dam I was just fina make my move after Trunks defeated Cold and Frieza was kinda funny. Like he purposely was waiting at the right moment to look flashy and have an epic entrance😂
1:44 Wrong Goku said he was planning kill Frieza off for good when trunks was talking about how he came to jump in the fight because he feared Goku might take longer and remember Goku who literally fought Frieza on namek knowing Frieza wouldn't take that offer of leaving the planet after he gave him energy just for him to try to kill Goku again why would Goku give them a warning like this is literally Z Goku not super Goku he's not gonna waste anytime when he knew how cold blooded Frieza is.
I would love to play as future Goku in Db Sparking zero like the unseen stories from the dark future. Lots of stories to dive into and then see what Future Goku has been up to in the other world.
Had xeno not blipped the universe, and things somehow turned back to normal future Goku might have reached super Saiyan god if he was observing the Goku black situation, and desired to reach that level of power
Honestly, with the amount of time in the afterlife, and with no involvement with Whis or Beerus, i think Goku could theoretically reach SSj4. Because whenever someone dies and is sent to the afterlife, any body part they had lost gets brought back(Tien's left arm, Chiotzu's entire body, Goldo's head/body, Recoome's hair, ect...) so there could be an argument on whether or not Goku and Vegeta's tails would also be back. So with that 13+ year training with no consequences on the body, especially when training with Vegeta, i believe Goku could reach SSJ4.
I guess they just wanted to keep the future timeline hopeless so it can be more emotional because everything we know could’ve most definitely been stopped if they brought Goku back with gohan
I like to subscribe to the theory that since he didn’t die in combat, but rather of natural causes that future Goku didn’t get to keep his body and just went to regular heaven. The other z fighters don’t have any teleporting types movesets and although it was the anime, we saw Goku and King Kai had to take a plane to get to Grand Kai’s planet so idk if the others would be able to travel to King Kai’s (since he wasn’t dead in the future) using their own power to at least get him to allow them to communicate with Gohan.
I think it’s safe to say future Goku could have been stronger then he was at the end of the Buu saga. Since he never trained with Beerus and he has no need to get his tail back for SSJ4, it might’ve been possible he mastered SSJ3 and didn’t get any of the draw backs and weakness the form usually has.
@@crimsonking4151 he is literally shown with his body in the above manga panel, lmao. Goku gets a body in the afterlife regardless because of all the good he has done in previous arcs.
Theres a possibility future goku simply passed on and reincarnated after his death. It couldve been because he knew he would never return to the world of the living and at that moment he had been the strongest fighter on earth. To future goku he was as strong as he could get and the world was at peace, there was nothing left to do but start over. Cant say the same for the other z fighters tho🤔
Nah in the Manga it's like a special page goku like hey I'm dead some goofy sh** like that pissed me off cause I wanted to see his and everyone else's reactions to black and there future selfs
I personally think he surpassed his power in the battle of gods movie before obtaining super saiyjin god maybe has perfectly master super Saiyjin 3 and prolly a different super saiyjin 4 assuming that a non god ki power up would make him try to ascend beyond ssj3 getting a non-gt ssj4 maybe 5
Future trunks and Gohan should have trained in the gravity chamber. The briefs made it for Vegeta to train, and his main goal was to achieve ssj and surpass Goku, so I would assume since he knew Goku had the gravity chamber on the ship to namek, somewhere in those three years he would have been like "woman, build a gravity chamber and make it 3x more than the one you made Goku" 13 years at 300x gravity should have had them boys in better shape... Also I know none of this directly relates to Goku, but besides just the art style change where everyone slimmed down in DBS, do you think a lack of nutrition may have contributed to DBS trunks being so much smaller than dbz? I mean post apocalyptic life gotta catch up with you sometime. And I would say Goku had probably mastered ssj3 by the time DBS future trunks arc rolled around. He is never shown to not be training, so even if he wasn't training as hard for those 3 years on earth, he was likely still training a lot, and what 21 years or so in the afterlife? Yeah I'd say he would have hit ssj2 around the Buu saga equivalent (~7 years dead 10+ years as a ssj total) and then that gives him plenty of time to push on past that
Honestly I think the solution to solve the og timeline is by having goku come back to life for a 1 day pass and instant transmission to new namek and bring dende with him to make a new set of dragon balls so they can wish everyone back.
The thing is, we don't know how it works when characters die naturally (which is through sickness or age) maybe they didn't meet goku in the otherworld. Also assuming gero is also dead, he could also pull what a gt and create androids that ultimately caused chaos in the otherworld xd
Everyone gets together in the other world to train,but punpun (the green guy from the other world tournament) stops them from traveling to our world. In that time line baba is like a taboo. The king of the kai's is the bad guy in that arc.
I like to believe Something occurred in other world in trunk’s timeline that restricted the cast from interacting with the real world. And it simply didn’t occur in the main timeline due to the butterfly effect. Trunks coming from the past, twice, and cell coming to the past from an alternate future
@@Kris.Strange.The.Screwthwell I mean cooler was still completely designed by akira toriyama. Also keep in mind Frieza’s “4th form” is the only form that isn’t a transformation but instead his true base form, which is why Toriyama made no such forms for Cooler.
@@QaamansLand hmm out of curiosity. Why you think that's too high considering future Goku been in otherworld for nearly 20 years before future Zeno deleted everything into void (rip to future Goku and company)
I wonder if at least why King Kai or other ranked beings probably forbid the others from getting involved? Only in universe reasoning I can think of is that the Androids prior to Cell's introduction was exclusively an Earth based threat that originated on Earth itself. As such likely many other planets likely caused the down fall of their own species or planet through war or other means. To the likes of King Yenma who Baba more or less answers to when it comes to retrieving dead fighters the incident on Earth isn't all that special in the grandscheme of things. While the androids were far more powerful than say Frieza. Frieza was more or less a galactic Tyrant who has a penchant for destroying planets on a whim and had the means to transport himself to other worlds to do it. Still even his acts were still 'mortal affairs'. You can argue the only reason why King Kai got involved in helping the others with Frieza was because circumstances with Goku and the others just kind of spilled out into a mess after King Kai even explicility warned Goku to not interact with Frieza. Though Frieza's wrath wouldn't be contained to a singular planet compared to the Earth bound Androids. The case with Buu basically shows the hierarchy of threats that the Supreme Kai himself was on a mission to track down Buu. Who is not only super powerful compared to the androids, but also super dangerous. Basically able to genocide not just planets but whole star systems or more effortlessly. *THAT* kind of mass destruction was enough to move Yenma (Likely due to the Paperwork that would entail) to have Vegeta regain his body and sent Baba to meet Goku on his own volition due to the mass destruction and scale. The counter argument would be 'Well Goku recived help from King Kai to face Vegeta and Nappa who pale in comparison to Frieza and the androids.' Though I argue that the only reason that even happend or was even approved of was because Kami's Initiative to retrieve Goku's body and put in a good word to Yenma about Goku's accolades that swayed him to approve him to see King Kai. Other wise Earth could of been another in a long list of planets that got ravaged by a dangerous duo in Vegeta and Nappa as future Earth got ravaged by Androids 17 and 18.
Not gonna lie i just kind of assumed since goku died of natural causes he wouldn't actually go to the after life we've seen before but rather just remain sleep or a normal soul without a body, i thought this cuz when it comes to the non super powered characters that die they fs don't all get sent straight to king kais so that was my head canon for that. Piccolo and the others definitely could've reached out tho unless theres some unspoken rule of only being able to go to king kais and train with him ONCE and the only reason goku was able to the 2nd time in the main timeline is because he used IT to go directly to king kais Also 13+ years of straight training? Goku is definitely buu saga level minimum i would say he might be around the same strength he was during battle of gods it all depends on who he met in the after life
I think the prevailing “theory” is that Goku didn’t keep his body after dying to the heart virus as that would be considered a “natural death”. As for the others, Vegeta would still be considered evil. Piccolo probably wouldn’t be, but there would be no Goku to advocate for him and the other fighters. If Piccolo fused with Kami, this likely wouldn’t be necessary.
In that timeline I think the Z fighters would have killed the soldiers Vegeta would’ve probably took care of king Cole, and kakarot would’ve killed frieza
@@QaamansLand you don’t think so huh? I didn’t think King Cole was that strong in that version how long did you think it took vegeta to reach super saiyan think if he did fight king cole it pushed him because you know everything is going to be different from how achieved it in the other timeline
@@QaamansLand 1) Master Ssj3 2) eventually Discover and Master wrathful form 3) Have a better grip on Kaioken 4) Stack all of them together 5) Possibly even use a "grade 3" variant of that stacked form, with Kaioken compensating for the speed slowdown.
the one day living rule is what has always pissed me off this whole time. assuming baba was alive. she couldve brought goku back and he couldve told gohan about the rooom of spirit and time,etc
so just to help u out a bit, the reason goku was not brought back from the afterlife is because of the way afterlife works. You can not get revived/ helpd by baba if you died by natrual causes such as illness. and in the afterlife you do not have a body or conciousness.
I wonder what the dead Future Z fighters reaction was to see/feel the power of alternative Goku and Vegeta and their Trunks when they was fighting Zamasu and Black. It would be great if some could make a short serie of that. I my self have no artistic talent. I could maybe write the story but not putting it in a drawing.
Your emphasis early on about Trunks having a weapon seemed a little silly to me since I thought it was a standard sword, but you might be onto something. That sword must be hella strong if it can survive being swung around by planet-busting super heroes lol
It's hard to make sense of the future trunks timeline since we know what we know from what we've seen with King Kai and things like that how come goku didn't link up with king Kai to guide Gohan and later on both him and future trunks as far as freeza and king cold he must have tried to tell them to leave the planet peacefully but you know the cold family won't take that so goku was forced to use his SS power to dispose of them
Hi I am trying to make my own race and kinda fanfic. I kinda want it to take place on a different planet But Baba having the power to go to the afterlife seems very useful, and I wonder why it isn't used more.
Another cool way Future Goku could’ve survived the Heart Virus was asking to get ki blasted through the chest while sick. That counts as an unnatural cause of death. Bringing him back to life would definitely a very selfish way to use the Dragon Balls though.
@@ironrevenger9386 that’s true because Porunga never revived Goku. The only question would be is if he can revive someone who died of natural causes. I do know the Namekian dragonballs were upgraded though.
@@86twin Under the circumstances I provided it would be, since Goku didn’t die from the virus, but Yamcha killing him with a ki blast while he’s sick. For the Namekian Dragon Balls Piccolo is revived first for obvious reasons, followed by Goku, and Gohan. Several Instant Transmissions they’re on New Namek with Trunks. After another heartfelt moment, they realize how much more is left to do. The Namekians express how happy they are to help after all that was done for them. Piccolo considers fusing with Kami, knowing how easily the Androids killed him. Goku admires Future Trunks and Gohan’s efforts in becoming SSJ and apologizes for Dr. Gero’s mess, assuring them that all will be fine this time. Future Trunks anticipates meeting Vegeta. While wishing back everyone who the Androids killed would include him, an even smarter wish for the Earth Dragon Balls is giving the Androids traceable ki.
In the manga we blatently saw that future trunks as a super saiyan 2 was as strong as pre goku black arc goku as a super saiyan 3. I do not have a hard time believing that a future Goku that has been training in the afterlife for so long is leaps and bounds above modern Goku at least as far as base power goes, though super Goku's power is most likely still better as a super saiyan god, blue, and in ultra instinct. Though, I do think it's possible future beerus found Goku in the afterlife when looking for a super saiyan god. Also, future Goku seeing the events of the Goku black arc from heaven probably made him aware of the godly transformations. In my opinion, this *definitely* puts future Goku *leaps and bounds* above *current Goku.* But that's up to the individual to decide I guess.
The original timeline should have never happened. There's just too many ways the series has shown that even after death they're still able to communicate to help. yet they didn't with gohan for some reason. The only Z fighter to not have his body in the afterlife would be vegeta since he didn't have his character arc through the cell saga & still be considered evil. Power wise I think it would be cool if goku achieved Ssj4 in the afterlife as a nod to GT
Exactly! DB already has a lot of plotholes, but you would have to explain the majority of that arc through pure headcannon. There should be no reason that 20-30 years in fans can't give a definitive answer on where the virus came from, why couldn't the others communicate with Gohan and Trunks, etc.
Alright so, I keep seeing some youtubers say that future zeno erased the ENTIRE future timeline, but that's actually not the case, he just erased the universe 7 from the future timeline and the other universes still remain. If zeno had erased the timeline they probably wouldn't be able to go back to get him.
When it comes to King Cold i always thought the reason he didn't transform was because he was arrogant because when Future Trunks did go super saiyan King Cold wasn't utterly impressed with it and didn't see what spooked Frieza about the transformation at the time plus even if King Cold could transform Future Trunks didn't exactly give him much of a chance to fo so and like you said in the original timeline Future Goku probably ended his fight with Frieza and King Cold quickly and probably didn't give King Cold a chance to transform either
Yeah This always irritated me about Future Trunks timeline It really makes King Kai and Goku look like shit because like you said we see them bend rules all the time 1 day passes and what not Soooo many different things they could have done to help Gohan and Trunks to where that timeline should have NEVER gotten that bad Like King Kai could have hit up New Namek like hey Collect the dragon balls Goku's world is in trouble. Boom few wishes there and away you go
Maybe because Goku died of natural causes, the rules are different? But that only gives an explanation for Goku, not the others. Always thought it was weird how no one tried to help from the afterlife in the future timeline.
I just assumed Goku didn't get to keep his body because he died of natural causes. The other Z fighters though? I dunno maybe they thought it would be fruitless or something.
Goku wouldn’t get the chance to train in the afterlife, because he died of a heart virus, which is technically a natural cause. That means it was only piccolo in the others left behind. Future Gohan was probably a stronger, super Saiyan, then the main timeline at that point because of the ZenKai boosts he was getting from surviving these near death fights.
he definitely SSJ 4 in the after life, and im not talking about the uncannon GT... I'm saying he went SSJ 3 , has a tail , and went ozooru form, like cumber in the uncannon dragon ball heroes.. So his power level is a mastered SSJ 3[with ozooru or equivalent to SSJ 4 power scale] basically.. :)
Could Goku in the future have even gotten Super Saiyan God? Beerus would still wake up and go to King Kai's planet after finding out Goku defeated Freeza, and Goku's there training...
I'd say future Goku would be stronger than buu saga Goku. But I think the reason why Bubba(forgot her name even though I heard you say it multiple times) didn't bring back Goku for a day is probably because she did die. Think about it, why wouldn't she do it in trunks's future but in the buu saga? Enough time has past to where there was peace in-between the androids and Goku black's reign to the point she would've at least done so against zamasu or Dabura. Note that she brought back Goku AND Vegeta in the buu saga but didn't do anything in trunks's timeline. But what im not excusing his Goku not helping from the afterlife via talking through King Kai. It's understandable that he can't be wished back because he died of natural causes AND piccolo died, not only that, they don't even know where new namek is to use their dragon balls. My only guess is Goku might've died again in the afterlife or he was being that weird Goku where he's like "It's the new generation's time" and straight up left Gohan alone. But the most likely option is Toriyama forgotten and permanently kills them off anyway with zeno.
My head canon to why the Earth folks of the bad TL didn't get any help from the afterlife is: Due to the transgressions of Future Trunks, Otherworld was barred off connection to Earth. Granted this doesn't account for the lack of support for Future Gohan....
Don’t they need Baba to be alive for the Z fighters to come back to life and help? If the androids killed her, then they have no way of coming back, right?
i dont think future vegeta trained a lot. vegeta only ever tried to achieve super saiyan because he saw that trunks could do it, and he likely still believed that there can only be a single super saiyan at once due to the legend. nowadays we know that every saiyan can do that, but back then they thought there could only be one.
I'd say Future Goku would be about as strong as he was either in the kid Buu fight, or battle of gods. I'm not quite sure hoe to scale it I have a 60% feeling Vegeta would ho to hell, Gohan would explore and learn about the other realm now that he has no reason to keep fighting, maybe he'll even train with Kais since they have a lot of knowledge. That leaves Goku who has the most potential to just keep growing and outgrowing the competition, not really being able to push himself... unless Piccolo learns something new from being in that realm, which might happen considering hid dedication to meditation and seemingly higher knowledge on how things work, recognizing the Supreme Kai etc.
Call me crazy but I think all the Z fighters from the future timeline turned into those cloud like spirits that you see in the afterlife (I cant remember which saga but it was at the beginning of Z lol). Meaning they were not in any resemblances to their human form and were completely assigned to live their eternal life in peace as those cloud like spirit beings. Therefore they had virtually no connection or any interference with the events of the current timeline we watch unfold lol No but seriously how come some beings get to have their body in the afterlife and others don't...
I understand the future timeline had to remain hopeless until trunks brought peace, but with how much we know about the afterlife from the main timeline it just makes goku, king kai, and the rest of the z fighters seem like they couldn't be bothered to attempt to help.
Well, Toriyama had to find SOME way to make the androids a threat...
Thats why the Android saga fucking sucks lol
Goku was killed by natural cause so he could not be brought back with dragon balls nor did he have a body to train in. Heroes are granted a body in the otherworld when they are killed in battle defending their world. So Goku couldn’t save the day in the future.
@@SovereignReaperX it’s stated I’m the manga that’s what happened
@@crimsonking4151 it doesn't even matter that Goku died of natural causes. King kai didn't help Bulma locate New Namek like he did at the end of the saiyan saga. Thus resulting in her reverse engineering her spaceship into the time machine. Many more factors could have resulted in F.Gohan not dying, and other Z fighters being brought back with the Namekian dragon balls. Goku already gets his body regardless because of all the good he has done in previous arcs. It is even shown to us with the above manga panel.
Such as the fact that Roshi is still alive, and he can do the mafuba technique. A move that took F.Trunks less than an hour to learn, and works on god level opponents. Or Gohan not having the proper knowledge to improve himself, and struggles to survive thinking he got stronger correctly. A theoretically ssj2 f.Gohan at that point would have been enough for both 17 and 18, since they always resort to jumping.
Heck if f.Gohan got a proper 1v1, he could have defeated 17 and 18 by himself.
Can you imagine Future Goku sitting in the afterlife and suddenly seeing not only an evil version of himself but another good version of himself just appear and be able to reach power he may never achieve?
It would motivate him but he would get erasef
@@LESHAUN3939-mf7rr If Infinite Zamasu didn't wipe out Dead Future Goku first 🤔
Seeing an evil version of himself turn Super Saiyan Rosè and seeing another version of himself turn Super Saiyan Blue
2 God SSJ Forms would motivate Future Goku to go beyond SSJ3
Too bad he got erased@@undisclosedidentity9893
@@LESHAUN3939-mf7rr I really didn't like the universe ending plot thread with Zamasu
At LEAST SS3. With those decades of training, he could've gotten that far. Like you said, the Z fighters and other dead heroes would've pushed him. Its crazy to think that they had a solution for Trunk's future and they wrre like "Nah, wr gonna let his life be trash.'
So why did Goku and the others ignore Gohan, Trunks & Bulma struggling to survive for so long?
@@QaamansLand I think it was writing. Goku has a history of trying to make something happen.... He was a great strategist in Z. He typically would tried to do something to change their fortunes.
@@QaamansLand eh probably was in his buu saga mind aka I’m not going to do anything but watch because insert new generation
@@QaamansLandmaybe the Z Fighters died in the afterlife it's clearly states if you die in the afterlife you disappear for good was meantioned in Z
@@QaamansLand alright hear me out, what if with the large amount of dead souls the soul machine got clogged and janemba was born and killed all the z fighters in the future afterlife
I assumed Baba died in the future timeline. Then again, toriyama forgets certain characters. Or Korina tower was destroyed or maybe the lookout. The future timeline is ambiguous, we may never know
They were still alive until zamasu merged with the universe and destroyed everything at the end of Goku Black's Arc.
@@jonesdovick6954 Korin was killed by the Androids as confirmed by Yajirobe
@@hunter_light_18ncs oof, that's sad, i didn't even remember yajirobe in the Arc, now for the other characters like android 8, that girl from the snow village, the turtle, chi-chi and the ox king, the kids and the rest of the survivors, they all got killed by infinite zamasu.
It's started in the manga that there is no senzu beans in the future
Korin is definitely dead
What if there was some catastrophe in the afterlife similar to Janemba that shut down traveling between worlds? That would be an intriguing story to tell, and would explain why no one could help Future Gohan or Trunks.
That would be an interesting arc for future trunks as long as it’s well written.
I couldn't see it cause it didn't happen in the maintime and janemba came after all this even if that was the case also I feel vegeta most likely would've been in he** to cause he never got that chance to redeem himself 👀 pure writing for this bs 🤦🏾♂️
Nice one. Could be a great explanation.
@Pablo not Picasso how if it didn't happen in the main 🤔just because goku died early in that timeline don't mean janemba came early 👀
@@nyghtryder3446 He was talking to a hypothetical problem similar to the one that occurs on Janemba's movie (that wrecked the possibility to travel between living world and the other world)
In the movie, Goku and Vegeta stay stuck on Other World as Janemba blocked the acess by locking King Yemma with his dimensional powers, so the dead were free to swarm on Earth.
In a similar manner, maybe the Z Fighters tried to help Future Gohan and Trunks but ended up being trapped or something like that... It was stated that if someone dies already being death, his soul erases from existence.
There's no Janemba in the Future Timeline, at least we don't know what happened or if he existed at all.
Pretty sure in a interview with toriyama he stated that IF King Cold has a final form similar to frieza then he would be similar in power to semi-perfect cell, but that's a IF basically confirming that the form we see of king Cold is probably his final form.
I think it’s insanely unreasonable to assume the future timeline Goku didn’t achieve SSJ2 and SSJ3 in the afterlife considering how much time had passed. The only leg up the main timeline Goku had to achieving BOTH forms is that he knew of SSJ2 because Gohan got it in front of him. But that’s it. And it took him 7 years to get both SSJ2 and a new form no one knew about, aka SSJ3. So giving him significantly more time to do the same thing with only slightly less knowledge, but also having more training partners that he will train with consistently and at least Vegeta going for the same things as him, it’s basically guaranteed that Goku would get SSJ2 and SSJ3 in the future timeline.
IDK. There's this questionable assumption I see especially with the DB fandom where people assume that more time must equal more power gains, as if that's the only factor that matters.
You know what else effected Goku's ability to get stronger? The presence of villains that pushed him harder and having people around to train with. He had massive gains in the time chamber because he had Gohan to train with. And there's no reason to believe that the same things would've happened in the afterlife that allowed him to achieve SSJ2 and 3 like he did in the main timeline. If different things happen there, then there would of course be different gains. It's not just about the passage of time.
In the manga, we never really know anything about what Goku did in the afterlife to get 2 and 3. In the anime, we know that Pikkon existed to serve as a powerful rival and potential training partner. If Future Goku never met Pikkon, then he wouldn't have that. But even if he did, Future Goku wouldn't be at a power level where Pikkon would be a good sparring partner. He'd be far too weak if he died during the Android Saga, as opposed to the main timeline where he died after mastering SSJ. So many things could have happened that negatively affected his ability to make the same gains that he did in the main timeline. Again, it's not just about having time. Knowing about SSJ2 helped him know there was a form beyond 1, but that was only possible due to training Gohan. He saw it in Gohan first, and then realized that it was a thing he could reach for. It's easy to take for granted now, but back then, the idea of a form beyond SSJ was kinda just hypothesized and no one knew that it was even possible.
Heck, even Goku debunks this whole Time = Gains assumption. When the Dragon Team suggested that he and Gohan go back into the Time Chamber to train more so that they could be stronger than Cell, Goku explains that that's not how it works. Another year in the time chamber, according to Goku himself, wouldn't have made him much stronger, if any stronger at all. It's very possible that circumstances in the afterlife could have prevented him from getting much stronger as well. The way that the story is set up in DB allowed for what feels to viewers as a constant flow of power increase, but the story was also a series of VEEEERY specific series of events, many of which were VEEEEERY specific in setting up the characters for getting stronger. There is no requirement for that to be the case in the Future timeline or the Future afterlife. And it makes more sense that way, considering it's the timeline where Goku dies of a heart disease. Things hardly go well there.
Vegeta would go to hell and not keep his body
Future Goku would’ve seen SSJ2 by seeing Trunks fight Babidi, Buu and Goku Black
We also should take into account the Saiyajin metabolism. Particularly how they seem to get anywhere from significantly week or two almost unable to move, based on what we have seen from Goku when they can’t get enough food and the way the scene work, Gohan is eating with bulma and trunks is made to appear as if that is the biggest quantity of food he’s had in a while. So I it follows that he will be weaker in that regard as well. Also goku could talk with gohan through king Kai and walk him through training like a coach would an athlete.
The "says"? Re-read your first two sentences.
@@QaamansLand my bad it changed Saiyajin to says in
Goku asked master roshi to be revived in the sayan saga.Of course in the future timeline goku couldn't be revived cause not only he died naturally but it was also his second time,still he could have talk to gohan and advise him to train in the chamber,most likely he wouldn't have unlocked FP ssj much less ssj2 but at least he could have unlocked Super vegeta's form and that would have been enough to kill 17,18 and imperfect cell.After that goku could have teach him FP ssj and ssj2 and so on goku could teach gohan everything he learned in the otherworld.The future timeline is basically:"Dragon Ball Future but everyone stopped trying(except trunks)".
@@Gimas96 doubt Gohan would reach that level training alone
The future timelines being forcefully hopeless is so wack. I mean Bulma can build a time machine but cant find New Namek? Baba doesn't help, King Kai doesn't help. Us actually knowing why the future was so doomed would've made the story so much more impactful.
Here's the issue with the future timeline, there's like 10 different ways they could have saved the future.
Things like training in the afterlife, the hyperbolic time chamber, namek dragonballs and a few other ideas i have could have easily helped them beat the androids.
Looking back it seems like most of this stuff wasn't used simply to add agency to future trunks' timeline.
How could they train in the afterlife and somehow come back to save the future?
How would the hyperbolic time chamber help? Gohan had been training for years and still wasn’t close to beating the androids (at least in the manga), an extra few years would achieve little. As for Trunks, he needed a trigger to actually make him go super saiyan, extra training wouldn’t have been much help either.
They have no idea where New Namek is. Future Goku could get King Kai to help him contact them, but he wouldn’t actually be much help since he just instant transmissions there and wouldn’t be able to point out exact coordinates. Besides, it’d be out of character for Goku to help since he’d want to see the next generation mature and solve their own problems.
@@saucevc8353 if you were a good person in db universe they will let you keep your body in the after life and lol they even gave goku a day pass so that he could visit earth so they definingly could have trained in the afterlife then come to back help just like goku did in the buu saga. also future gohan should have been a lot stronger since he survived so many battles with 17 and 18 but it seems like toriyama either forgot saiyans are supposed get stronger after surviving deadly battles or that he just did not want him to be strong.
@saucevc8353 Saga.
King Kai could just telepathically contact the Namekians to resurrect the Z-Fighters. We know in the Buu Saga that Moori did upgrade Porunga to resurrect multiple people at once. Yeah, Goku might stay dead due to his death by natural causes, but Piccolo can fuse with Kami and then everyone hops in the Time Chamber. The androids should've been scrapped years ago.
@@saucevc8353the time chamber sure helped Future trunks
@@NateBullock-ow6on Yeah because he was training with Vegeta who is actually an expert and not Future Gohan who barely got any training of his own.
It's also sad too look at this situtation where if the Future Z warriors saw what happened to the World during the Zamasu incident, you would think that they step up and asked for a Day's pass to go in and help. By that point, im sure they would just as be as powerful as their original counterparts.
Unfortunately, that doesnt matter anymore because our special Friend from the heavens decided to pull a Thanos.
If korin is dead baba probably is too
@@MotherLover1984 I highly doubt it since she would be the one that hides and not make a scene
pretty sure Baba died
They wouldn't be able to see anything. Or have bodies ect.
Also I would like to mention that Yamcha is considerably buffed while in the afterlife. He fought 2 above cell level conbatants with EASE and CONFIDENCE.
And thay was only after a small time within the afterlife!
That's not small time
It sucks how the grim situation of the future z-fighters’ deaths is just underselled through Toyotaro’s take on it. I don’t hate his art, but I wish they characters in super didn’t look and act so silly
I agree Qaaman Future Goku killed Future Frezia and Future King Cold quickly and gave them a chance to get off quickly which they refused. Future Goku still trained just less intensely without Future Trunks warning about the Androids. I would say Future Goku would have gotten as strong as Super Saiyan 3 training with the Future Z Fighters except Future Vegeta. Future Vegeta would have most likely been in H.F.I.L.
Give me your "quote for quote" rundown of how Goku probably spoke to Frieza and King Cold. Also explain how the major characters each reacted.
I will use your comment for a future video.
@@QaamansLand Future Goku: "Hey Frezia it seems that you haven't learned your lesson back on Planet Namek and it seems that you have brought your dad. Im giving you one last chance to leave Earth and take your dad with you and never return. If not I will be forced to kill you and your dad".
Future Frezia: "Saiyan you have finally shown yourself this is my chance to get revenge for the humiliation that you have inflicted on me on Namek". I will start by killing your friends and family by one by one starting with your son and the bald earthling".
Future King Cold: "Oh this is a Super Saiyan this is interesting".
Future Gohan would have reacted by being amazed of Goku's Super Saiyan power and would be cheering his dad to defeat Frezia and King Cold. Future Krillin would be amazed at Goku' Super Saiyan power and he would be cheering Goku to finish off Future Frezia and Future King Cold. Future Piccolo would watch on quietly and would be shocked at Goku as a Super Saiyan and his power. Future Vegeta would be jealous and would fuming at Goku's Super Saiyan transformation. Future Yamcha would be shocked at Goku's Super Saiyan transformation and would be amazed at the power of a Super Saiyan. Future Tien would look in awe at Goku's Super Saiyan Transformation and questions if he could ever reach this sort of strength and power, he would use this awe as a form of inspiration to keep on training to catch up to Goku and surpass him. Future Bulma would be amazed at Goku's Super Saiyan form and she would probably call the form cute. Future Chiaotzu would be excited at seeing Goku transform into Super Saiyan and would cheer Future Goku on in his short battle against Future Frezia and Future King Cold.
@@Eric-gp3hi Now explain the fight.
@@QaamansLand Future Freiza and Future King Cold would both charge at Future Goku with both of them punching Future Goku at the same time with Future Goku blocking the punches. Then Future Goku would teleport behind Future Frezia and Future King Cold punching them around. Eventually Future Frezia and Future King Cold would get irritated and would try all sort of moves on Future Goku such as Death Beams ,Death Saucers and a small Death Ball all of which Goku effortly blocked. Eventually Future Frezia would get so angry and frustrated he would try to send a death beam to Future Gohan which Future Goku effortly blocked and Future Goku would end the fight against Future Frezia and Future King Cold as soon as possible. Future Goku would Instant Transmission in front of Frezia and would vaporize him quickly with an energy wave then Future Goku would then vaporize King Cold with another energy wave. Then everyone would cheer over Future Goku killing Future Frezia and Future King Cold with everyone running over to Future Goku with Future Gohan and Future Krillin giving Future Goku a hug.
Question. Don't you think that after Goku kills Frieza that King Cold would try to convince him to join like Trunks?
A few things to unravel here. Since future goku died from a natural sickness, he cannot be revived from either earth or Namkeian dragon balls. Since he died naturally, it can be implied his body became a regular spirit in the after life and he does not get to keep it. Where all regular humans go in the after life, that's where Goku is. He does not get the privileged to see King Kai because he died from a natural virus. And since he did not saved earth from a exploding cell in this timeline, he does not get the special privileged of coming back to earth for 1 day. Now of course there is other issues with this entire story arc.
Since Yamacha and Tien was killed while trying to saved the earth, why couldn't they see King Kai again? Interact with him to find Dende and new Namek. They never mentioned what happen to Namekian and Dende in Trunks' timeline. So in 13 years Dende is not curious to see how Gohan is doing on earth? They have the technology, let alone the dragon balls to find out whats going on at earth or travel there.
Now my issue is with the plot hole of future Vegeta. After witnessing a lower class Saiyan becomes Super Saiyan and kills your life long personal enemy instantly. This of course inspired future Vegeta to train as long as it takes to surpass future Goku. Now I agreed the other z fighters would be far weaker in the original timeline. Vegeta in either timeline should be far stronger than Goku and should not have been killed. Vegeta has trained in the gravity room for almost 3 years straight at 100-400g. He did almost 4x what Goku did. Vegeta in either timeline should of been far stronger than he is and probably at very least avoid being killed by the androids.
So you think Vegeta went to hell? What about Piccolo?
@@QaamansLand Definitely. But piccolo. Not hell but either on king kai or afterlife .
@@QaamansLand When Frieza killed Vegeta, he went to the afterlife momentarily, that's where he is. But again, he should be far stronger than what he is and definitely avoid being killed at the very least. Now for Piccolo and Kami, they should of been the 1st to contact King Kai immediately after their deaths. Why were they allow to interact with King kai during Saiyan and Frieza arc and not allow to interact during the android arc really makes no sense. This is the very core of a huge plot hole. And to explain the contagious virus, I'm not sure you've been next to people that were contagious sick in our lifetime and it did not affect you as much. So, if the z fighters did catch the virus, it probably did not affect them as much since its second hand. Not a deal breaker here nor a plot hole, this part can be ignored. Also Gohan and trunks does not think to train in the gravity room during the 13 years?
Lets go along with story, when Gohan was killed, again no interaction with King Kai and the other z fighters in the afterlife. When the earth's population is dying during the 13 years, this does not catch the attention of Yemma?
Now at this point Toriyama does have a opportunity this rewrite this story arc starting from around year 13, that does not involve time travel. What would Bulma and Trunks do if Zeno appears before them and tells them you cannot use any form of time travel? Bulma develops the concept of time travel while Gohan was still alive, so maybe Zeno appears around that time. This can be an opportunity to correct many plot holes and tell a new story. From the Namekian side we know they upgraded the porunga dragon balls because of the incident of frieza. Because of this incident, wouldn't it make sense to create more warrior types like nail? The warrior types that were killed by frieza and revived by earth dragon balls, shouldnt they have trained during the 13 to 17 years of the original timeline, heck even the main timeline. Again this can be a opportunity for Toriyama to rewrite this story starting from year 13 to 17 with no time traveling.
only way Goku is getting revived is if, a kai gives up their life, the super dragon balls are involved (even tho they wouldn’t have had any knowledge of them or there being multiple universes) or if beerus & whis go to king kai’s world and whis decides to bring back him back to life, like what he did for frieza
I disagree. I think the dragon balls being unable to bring back someone from death is a restriction of the dragon balls themselves and not a matter of the cause of death changing one’s afterlife. Had Goku not killed demon king piccolo and stopped his brother he probably wouldn’t have had the chance to go to king kai’s planet. Goku and the Z fighters are an exception just because of their actions.
Let’s be honest it’s just writing but I think an underrated opinion is that simply after gokus death or the android terror perhaps the z fighters just gave up and accepted being dead. We already saw goku in the main timeline be ok with remaining dead for what he initially intended to be for good, so perhaps that’s what happened universally the rest of the cast as they died as well
This is the deepest analysis I have seen anyone do.
Goku saying Dam I was just fina make my move after Trunks defeated Cold and Frieza was kinda funny. Like he purposely was waiting at the right moment to look flashy and have an epic entrance😂
1:44 Wrong Goku said he was planning kill Frieza off for good when trunks was talking about how he came to jump in the fight because he feared Goku might take longer and remember Goku who literally fought Frieza on namek knowing Frieza wouldn't take that offer of leaving the planet after he gave him energy just for him to try to kill Goku again why would Goku give them a warning like this is literally Z Goku not super Goku he's not gonna waste anytime when he knew how cold blooded Frieza is.
I would love to play as future Goku in Db Sparking zero like the unseen stories from the dark future.
Lots of stories to dive into and then see what Future Goku has been up to in the other world.
Had xeno not blipped the universe, and things somehow turned back to normal future Goku might have reached super Saiyan god if he was observing the Goku black situation, and desired to reach that level of power
Honestly, with the amount of time in the afterlife, and with no involvement with Whis or Beerus, i think Goku could theoretically reach SSj4. Because whenever someone dies and is sent to the afterlife, any body part they had lost gets brought back(Tien's left arm, Chiotzu's entire body, Goldo's head/body, Recoome's hair, ect...) so there could be an argument on whether or not Goku and Vegeta's tails would also be back. So with that 13+ year training with no consequences on the body, especially when training with Vegeta, i believe Goku could reach SSJ4.
That could explain why they were able to go into super saiyan 4 in budokai tenkaichi 1.
8:52 “most likely at least probably”😂😂😂
I guess they just wanted to keep the future timeline hopeless so it can be more emotional because everything we know could’ve most definitely been stopped if they brought Goku back with gohan
I like to subscribe to the theory that since he didn’t die in combat, but rather of natural causes that future Goku didn’t get to keep his body and just went to regular heaven. The other z fighters don’t have any teleporting types movesets and although it was the anime, we saw Goku and King Kai had to take a plane to get to Grand Kai’s planet so idk if the others would be able to travel to King Kai’s (since he wasn’t dead in the future) using their own power to at least get him to allow them to communicate with Gohan.
That’s exactly what happened
I think it’s safe to say future Goku could have been stronger then he was at the end of the Buu saga. Since he never trained with Beerus and he has no need to get his tail back for SSJ4, it might’ve been possible he mastered SSJ3 and didn’t get any of the draw backs and weakness the form usually has.
No future Goku doesn’t have a body
@@crimsonking4151 he is literally shown with his body in the above manga panel, lmao. Goku gets a body in the afterlife regardless because of all the good he has done in previous arcs.
@@crimsonking4151 the manga panel says otherwise
@@Sonic2ist yeah he’s out of universe outside the panel breaking the forth wall reminding the reader he’s dead in the timeline.
@@crimsonking4151 then he would have been a spirit like you say. Instead of having a body in the afterlife, like he clearly does in this panel.
7:02 either the Androids stumbled upon bubba and killed her outright causing no more one day passes for the z fighters
Theres a possibility future goku simply passed on and reincarnated after his death. It couldve been because he knew he would never return to the world of the living and at that moment he had been the strongest fighter on earth. To future goku he was as strong as he could get and the world was at peace, there was nothing left to do but start over. Cant say the same for the other z fighters tho🤔
Nah in the Manga it's like a special page goku like hey I'm dead some goofy sh** like that pissed me off cause I wanted to see his and everyone else's reactions to black and there future selfs
0:53 you are wrong devil man killed frieza in the future timeline lot of people don't know that
He straight-up decided not to ask King Kai to call the Namekians for help...
Damn the old art style for super saiyan goku and trunks just looks so epic
I love your vids they are always correct
I feel like with all the analyzing of this arc over the years, they really winged this arc to make it the way it became
To be fair, toriyama wrote it weekly, so that might be the real issue. We all know he doesn't keep notes
@@Spectrum0122 sounds bout right, and then possible editors telling him stuff along with that
I personally think he surpassed his power in the battle of gods movie before obtaining super saiyjin god maybe has perfectly master super Saiyjin 3 and prolly a different super saiyjin 4 assuming that a non god ki power up would make him try to ascend beyond ssj3 getting a non-gt ssj4 maybe 5
Future trunks and Gohan should have trained in the gravity chamber. The briefs made it for Vegeta to train, and his main goal was to achieve ssj and surpass Goku, so I would assume since he knew Goku had the gravity chamber on the ship to namek, somewhere in those three years he would have been like "woman, build a gravity chamber and make it 3x more than the one you made Goku" 13 years at 300x gravity should have had them boys in better shape... Also I know none of this directly relates to Goku, but besides just the art style change where everyone slimmed down in DBS, do you think a lack of nutrition may have contributed to DBS trunks being so much smaller than dbz? I mean post apocalyptic life gotta catch up with you sometime. And I would say Goku had probably mastered ssj3 by the time DBS future trunks arc rolled around. He is never shown to not be training, so even if he wasn't training as hard for those 3 years on earth, he was likely still training a lot, and what 21 years or so in the afterlife? Yeah I'd say he would have hit ssj2 around the Buu saga equivalent (~7 years dead 10+ years as a ssj total) and then that gives him plenty of time to push on past that
Capsule corp was destroyed
i think ssj3 or mystic cause the kai could be intreset in goku when he reachs a high power lvl
Honestly I think the solution to solve the og timeline is by having goku come back to life for a 1 day pass and instant transmission to new namek and bring dende with him to make a new set of dragon balls so they can wish everyone back.
Wat if there was a enemy in the other world that double killed everyone?
"Shut up! Dont give them ideas to milk future trunks even more!"
I agree with you about future Goku & it's weird how he never helped future Gohan & future Trunks.
The thing is, we don't know how it works when characters die naturally (which is through sickness or age) maybe they didn't meet goku in the otherworld. Also assuming gero is also dead, he could also pull what a gt and create androids that ultimately caused chaos in the otherworld xd
Everyone gets together in the other world to train,but punpun (the green guy from the other world tournament) stops them from traveling to our world. In that time line baba is like a taboo. The king of the kai's is the bad guy in that arc.
I like to believe Something occurred in other world in trunk’s timeline that restricted the cast from interacting with the real world. And it simply didn’t occur in the main timeline due to the butterfly effect.
Trunks coming from the past, twice, and cell coming to the past from an alternate future
I think Freiza was a prodigy right? That's probably why, cuz he got extra forms. King Cold woulda transformed or made some attempt.
Cooler?
@@QaamansLand Not cannon.
@@Kris.Strange.The.Screwthwell I mean cooler was still completely designed by akira toriyama. Also keep in mind Frieza’s “4th form” is the only form that isn’t a transformation but instead his true base form, which is why Toriyama made no such forms for Cooler.
Future Goku with afterlife training after 13+ years (Androids to zamaus era) be strong as close enough vegito power level
That seems a bit high...
@@QaamansLand hmm out of curiosity. Why you think that's too high considering future Goku been in otherworld for nearly 20 years before future Zeno deleted everything into void (rip to future Goku and company)
@@MrMartellSincere eh no new opponents Goku during Bog wasn’t much stronger than his buu self
@@MrMartellSincere he wouldn’t have god Ki. Super Saiyan 2 would be unknown to him so no super Saiyan 3 either.
@@YaBoiDREX it’s goku, he would’ve figured out 2 & 3
In dbs broly, its stated that king cool was in his second form to look intimidating
I wonder if at least why King Kai or other ranked beings probably forbid the others from getting involved? Only in universe reasoning I can think of is that the Androids prior to Cell's introduction was exclusively an Earth based threat that originated on Earth itself. As such likely many other planets likely caused the down fall of their own species or planet through war or other means. To the likes of King Yenma who Baba more or less answers to when it comes to retrieving dead fighters the incident on Earth isn't all that special in the grandscheme of things.
While the androids were far more powerful than say Frieza. Frieza was more or less a galactic Tyrant who has a penchant for destroying planets on a whim and had the means to transport himself to other worlds to do it. Still even his acts were still 'mortal affairs'. You can argue the only reason why King Kai got involved in helping the others with Frieza was because circumstances with Goku and the others just kind of spilled out into a mess after King Kai even explicility warned Goku to not interact with Frieza. Though Frieza's wrath wouldn't be contained to a singular planet compared to the Earth bound Androids.
The case with Buu basically shows the hierarchy of threats that the Supreme Kai himself was on a mission to track down Buu. Who is not only super powerful compared to the androids, but also super dangerous. Basically able to genocide not just planets but whole star systems or more effortlessly. *THAT* kind of mass destruction was enough to move Yenma (Likely due to the Paperwork that would entail) to have Vegeta regain his body and sent Baba to meet Goku on his own volition due to the mass destruction and scale.
The counter argument would be 'Well Goku recived help from King Kai to face Vegeta and Nappa who pale in comparison to Frieza and the androids.' Though I argue that the only reason that even happend or was even approved of was because Kami's Initiative to retrieve Goku's body and put in a good word to Yenma about Goku's accolades that swayed him to approve him to see King Kai. Other wise Earth could of been another in a long list of planets that got ravaged by a dangerous duo in Vegeta and Nappa as future Earth got ravaged by Androids 17 and 18.
Not gonna lie i just kind of assumed since goku died of natural causes he wouldn't actually go to the after life we've seen before but rather just remain sleep or a normal soul without a body, i thought this cuz when it comes to the non super powered characters that die they fs don't all get sent straight to king kais so that was my head canon for that.
Piccolo and the others definitely could've reached out tho unless theres some unspoken rule of only being able to go to king kais and train with him ONCE and the only reason goku was able to the 2nd time in the main timeline is because he used IT to go directly to king kais
Also 13+ years of straight training? Goku is definitely buu saga level minimum i would say he might be around the same strength he was during battle of gods it all depends on who he met in the after life
3:13
Bro where is this clip from?
It was in one of the episodes where Trunks spoke to Goku. It was his flashback imagination of the Androids
@@QaamansLand thanks bro 🤝🏻
I don’t understand y future gohan never tried to train w Mr. Popo or Rossi even.
I think the prevailing “theory” is that Goku didn’t keep his body after dying to the heart virus as that would be considered a “natural death”. As for the others, Vegeta would still be considered evil. Piccolo probably wouldn’t be, but there would be no Goku to advocate for him and the other fighters. If Piccolo fused with Kami, this likely wouldn’t be necessary.
In that timeline I think the Z fighters would have killed the soldiers Vegeta would’ve probably took care of king Cole, and kakarot would’ve killed frieza
Vegeta would stand no chance against King Cold. It was said that both their powers were terrifying together. I'm paraphrasing the quote.
@@QaamansLand you don’t think so huh? I didn’t think King Cole was that strong in that version how long did you think it took vegeta to reach super saiyan think if he did fight king cole it pushed him because you know everything is going to be different from how achieved it in the other timeline
@@Kingvegeta33 it took vegeta 3 years to become SSJ after Frieza was killed on earth
@@crimsonking4151 that is true, but with the timeline being different, you never know remember, the death of kakarot friend pushed him to that level
@@Kingvegeta33 nothing pushed vegeta more than being top opp
I wish we get a anime or manag of the unseen timeline or trunks timeliine past.
Kaioken Akari MSsj3 Future Goku, is nothing to sneeze at.
Explanation?
@@QaamansLand
1) Master Ssj3
2) eventually Discover and Master wrathful form
3) Have a better grip on Kaioken
4) Stack all of them together
5) Possibly even use a "grade 3" variant of that stacked form, with Kaioken compensating for the speed slowdown.
the one day living rule is what has always pissed me off this whole time. assuming baba was alive. she couldve brought goku back and he couldve told gohan about the rooom of spirit and time,etc
so just to help u out a bit, the reason goku was not brought back from the afterlife is because of the way afterlife works. You can not get revived/ helpd by baba if you died by natrual causes such as illness. and in the afterlife you do not have a body or conciousness.
I wonder what the dead Future Z fighters reaction was to see/feel the power of alternative Goku and Vegeta and their Trunks when they was fighting Zamasu and Black.
It would be great if some could make a short serie of that. I my self have no artistic talent. I could maybe write the story but not putting it in a drawing.
Your emphasis early on about Trunks having a weapon seemed a little silly to me since I thought it was a standard sword, but you might be onto something. That sword must be hella strong if it can survive being swung around by planet-busting super heroes lol
It's hard to make sense of the future trunks timeline since we know what we know from what we've seen with King Kai and things like that how come goku didn't link up with king Kai to guide Gohan and later on both him and future trunks as far as freeza and king cold he must have tried to tell them to leave the planet peacefully but you know the cold family won't take that so goku was forced to use his SS power to dispose of them
in goku black saga
can future goku and future vegeta see
goku and vegeta in future trunks timeline ?
from the other world ?
Hi Qaaman
Honestly with Goku bopping about in the afterlife, he may have been the cause of some great catastrophe; that or he was too busy fighting the Buddha.
Qaaman here today! 🤩
Hi I am trying to make my own race and kinda fanfic.
I kinda want it to take place on a different planet
But Baba having the power to go to the afterlife seems very useful, and I wonder why it isn't used more.
Another cool way Future Goku could’ve survived the Heart Virus was asking to get ki blasted through the chest while sick. That counts as an unnatural cause of death. Bringing him back to life would definitely a very selfish way to use the Dragon Balls though.
The only reason that wouldn’t have worked is because he was already revived.
@@86twin Goku could visit King Kai in the afterlife and tell them to go to New Namek all over again
@@ironrevenger9386 that’s true because Porunga never revived Goku. The only question would be is if he can revive someone who died of natural causes. I do know the Namekian dragonballs were upgraded though.
@@86twin Under the circumstances I provided it would be, since Goku didn’t die from the virus, but Yamcha killing him with a ki blast while he’s sick.
For the Namekian Dragon Balls Piccolo is revived first for obvious reasons, followed by Goku, and Gohan. Several Instant Transmissions they’re on New Namek with Trunks. After another heartfelt moment, they realize how much more is left to do. The Namekians express how happy they are to help after all that was done for them. Piccolo considers fusing with Kami, knowing how easily the Androids killed him. Goku admires Future Trunks and Gohan’s efforts in becoming SSJ and apologizes for Dr. Gero’s mess, assuring them that all will be fine this time. Future Trunks anticipates meeting Vegeta. While wishing back everyone who the Androids killed would include him, an even smarter wish for the Earth Dragon Balls is giving the Androids traceable ki.
Baba was bringing ppl back to life a long time before the buu saga
I always wondered what happened too the future characters before the androids killed them
In the manga we blatently saw that future trunks as a super saiyan 2 was as strong as pre goku black arc goku as a super saiyan 3. I do not have a hard time believing that a future Goku that has been training in the afterlife for so long is leaps and bounds above modern Goku at least as far as base power goes, though super Goku's power is most likely still better as a super saiyan god, blue, and in ultra instinct. Though, I do think it's possible future beerus found Goku in the afterlife when looking for a super saiyan god. Also, future Goku seeing the events of the Goku black arc from heaven probably made him aware of the godly transformations. In my opinion, this *definitely* puts future Goku *leaps and bounds* above *current Goku.* But that's up to the individual to decide I guess.
The original timeline should have never happened. There's just too many ways the series has shown that even after death they're still able to communicate to help. yet they didn't with gohan for some reason. The only Z fighter to not have his body in the afterlife would be vegeta since he didn't have his character arc through the cell saga & still be considered evil.
Power wise I think it would be cool if goku achieved Ssj4 in the afterlife as a nod to GT
Exactly! DB already has a lot of plotholes, but you would have to explain the majority of that arc through pure headcannon. There should be no reason that 20-30 years in fans can't give a definitive answer on where the virus came from, why couldn't the others communicate with Gohan and Trunks, etc.
Alright so, I keep seeing some youtubers say that future zeno erased the ENTIRE future timeline, but that's actually not the case, he just erased the universe 7 from the future timeline and the other universes still remain. If zeno had erased the timeline they probably wouldn't be able to go back to get him.
When it comes to King Cold i always thought the reason he didn't transform was because he was arrogant because when Future Trunks did go super saiyan King Cold wasn't utterly impressed with it and didn't see what spooked Frieza about the transformation at the time plus even if King Cold could transform Future Trunks didn't exactly give him much of a chance to fo so and like you said in the original timeline Future Goku probably ended his fight with Frieza and King Cold quickly and probably didn't give King Cold a chance to transform either
My headcanon is that coolers revenge happens in the future timeline after frieza saga before heart virus
I can't wrap my head around future Goku being alive in super for Zamatzu to swap bodies with. I assumed he was wished back but.. Where are the others?
+Isnt there some dragon Ball on Namek?
I am just now realizing that Master Roshi could have really helped Gohan out with properly training
this might be far fetched but future goku could've at least attempted to get something similar to SSJ4 at some point.
First love the vids tho
Yeah
This always irritated me about Future Trunks timeline
It really makes King Kai and Goku look like shit because like you said we see them bend rules all the time 1 day passes and what not
Soooo many different things they could have done to help Gohan and Trunks to where that timeline should have NEVER gotten that bad
Like King Kai could have hit up New Namek like hey
Collect the dragon balls Goku's world is in trouble.
Boom few wishes there and away you go
Maybe because Goku died of natural causes, the rules are different? But that only gives an explanation for Goku, not the others. Always thought it was weird how no one tried to help from the afterlife in the future timeline.
He was shown in Super chapter 15 with his body in afterlife
DB characters are sooooo damn strong, yet I can see why they took out the blood and gore in most of the anime. And I like it like that
I just assumed Goku didn't get to keep his body because he died of natural causes. The other Z fighters though? I dunno maybe they thought it would be fruitless or something.
This is why time travel is always a gommick and never interesting imo. And the fact super did it again, but worse, hurts me
Jeez, Trunks' sword was a gimmick. He could have used a splinter infused with his KI.
Goku wouldn’t get the chance to train in the afterlife, because he died of a heart virus, which is technically a natural cause. That means it was only piccolo in the others left behind. Future Gohan was probably a stronger, super Saiyan, then the main timeline at that point because of the ZenKai boosts he was getting from surviving these near death fights.
he definitely SSJ 4 in the after life, and im not talking about the uncannon GT... I'm saying he went SSJ 3 , has a tail , and went ozooru form, like cumber in the uncannon dragon ball heroes.. So his power level is a mastered SSJ 3[with ozooru or equivalent to SSJ 4 power scale] basically.. :)
Could Goku in the future have even gotten Super Saiyan God? Beerus would still wake up and go to King Kai's planet after finding out Goku defeated Freeza, and Goku's there training...
not enough saiyans to do the ritual and who knows if whis would’ve decided to train goku
I'd say future Goku would be stronger than buu saga Goku.
But I think the reason why Bubba(forgot her name even though I heard you say it multiple times) didn't bring back Goku for a day is probably because she did die. Think about it, why wouldn't she do it in trunks's future but in the buu saga? Enough time has past to where there was peace in-between the androids and Goku black's reign to the point she would've at least done so against zamasu or Dabura. Note that she brought back Goku AND Vegeta in the buu saga but didn't do anything in trunks's timeline.
But what im not excusing his Goku not helping from the afterlife via talking through King Kai. It's understandable that he can't be wished back because he died of natural causes AND piccolo died, not only that, they don't even know where new namek is to use their dragon balls. My only guess is Goku might've died again in the afterlife or he was being that weird Goku where he's like "It's the new generation's time" and straight up left Gohan alone.
But the most likely option is Toriyama forgotten and permanently kills them off anyway with zeno.
My head canon to why the Earth folks of the bad TL didn't get any help from the afterlife is: Due to the transgressions of Future Trunks, Otherworld was barred off connection to Earth. Granted this doesn't account for the lack of support for Future Gohan....
Don’t they need Baba to be alive for the Z fighters to come back to life and help? If the androids killed her, then they have no way of coming back, right?
Baba was hiding and too scared to think on her own.
I am just gonna throw out the possibility that Goku and most of the Z fighters didn't keep their body in the afterlife for some reason.
I think Goku just took his time when he fought Frieza and Cold because he always took his time to enjoy his fights
I remember watching quaman videos when I was like 10 😂
I can’t believe Future Gohan got off by Ki Spamming 😭😂
Fun facts: Future Goku have gone back to real world for 1 days, but he have problems with Future Broly
Og broly ain't Canon tho
Future Broly would never get off vampa
@@YaBoiDREX No. Z Broly. Alternative Timeline Z Broly
@@longhoang9113 He’s not canon so it doesn’t matter
i dont think future vegeta trained a lot.
vegeta only ever tried to achieve super saiyan because he saw that trunks could do it, and he likely still believed that there can only be a single super saiyan at once due to the legend.
nowadays we know that every saiyan can do that, but back then they thought there could only be one.
Quamman you are an expert in this manga why would you make this video like you don’t already know what went down here
Not everybody knows this...
Wasnt Frieza considered a "mutant" compared to rest if his race?
I'd say Future Goku would be about as strong as he was either in the kid Buu fight, or battle of gods.
I'm not quite sure hoe to scale it I have a 60% feeling Vegeta would ho to hell, Gohan would explore and learn about the other realm now that he has no reason to keep fighting, maybe he'll even train with Kais since they have a lot of knowledge.
That leaves Goku who has the most potential to just keep growing and outgrowing the competition, not really being able to push himself... unless Piccolo learns something new from being in that realm, which might happen considering hid dedication to meditation and seemingly higher knowledge on how things work, recognizing the Supreme Kai etc.
3:30 yet another video leaving out role model tien
Imagine if Future appeared in the Goku Black arc.
Call me crazy but I think all the Z fighters from the future timeline turned into those cloud like spirits that you see in the afterlife (I cant remember which saga but it was at the beginning of Z lol). Meaning they were not in any resemblances to their human form and were completely assigned to live their eternal life in peace as those cloud like spirit beings. Therefore they had virtually no connection or any interference with the events of the current timeline we watch unfold lol No but seriously how come some beings get to have their body in the afterlife and others don't...