Patch 7 Update: Making Karlach into a mind flayer and letting Orpheus live on the dock still skips the ascension scene and proceeds straight to the later dock scenes.
I love that Larian shared this data, and wonder what other cutscenes are rare like this one. Crazy to think that only 34 people found it in a year when millions played the game. Thanks for posting Slim. The ending ascension cinematic has always felt like one of the coolest endings the game has to offer. Can't wait to get my hands on the new patch 7 ones as well.
It's interesting to think how it filters down from people that even played as Lae'zel, to staying loyal to Vlaakith (when the game keeps nudging her toward Orpheus), choosing to become a mindflayer, and then after all that being all, "Hell yeah, I'm ready to ascend!" and SO loyal to Vlaakith that they go full RP . .
@@SlimXG I almost got that ending in my honor mode run. I went to the Orpheus turning point planning to make Karlach a mind flayer, but I didn't get the option, and I had already rejected the emperor. So as Lae'zel I had to become a mindflayer (or Orpheus, but my plan the whole time had been to get the Lae'zel joins Orpheus ending). Lae'zel became a mindflayer. I still had the option to kill Orpheus, but I didn't take it. If I would have, I guess I could have gotten this option. Since it was honor mode, I couldn't take back any decisions so I was pretty cornered.
@@bluegum6438 yeah thats why it makes me doubt Larian's claim she is irredeemably evil. If she is ride or die and Tav is good then she compromises with Tav and her actions reflect good. If the actions are inheritantly good despite an evil mentality and future actions do good can one truely say Minthara is irredeemably evil?
@@inditiva6203 well My "True" play through is Lawfull Good and romance Minthara. Her reaction is like She still have ambition of "Oppressive Conqueror" but with more moral. She lead Tav to form an Army and overthrone her own city (which was under her parent). Evil people just Legitly cannot see why good people do good, and have zero motivation to it. which Minthara still is in the Epilogue.
@@InnerTriggerer my point is that actions speak louder than words so if Tav leads her to do good and she lives her life doing good with Tav then even if her logic drives her to evil conclusions her actions speak louder
Yeah as is the core of the plan of the dead 3, illithids have no Soul so Vlakith has no need for a Mind Flayer as it doesn't help her ascension to Godhood. TBH this is very rare because how unlikely it is for PCs to do such a strange flow of events, besides curiosity. Vlakith is already a bad deity, being a mind flayer isn't the greatest option and worse of all being both makes no sense.
If the Durge or Tav become a mindflayer and kty, Withers sees you, interacts with you, afterwards. He makes a comment that the whole “Mindflayers don’t have a soul” thing may not be as true as everyone thought. He doesn’t know what it is he is speaking to. I think they do have souls, just not like every other being in existence.
@@vampirelordx1 It feels related to the outcome a redeemed durge gets. The idea Withers plants that something can "grow" in a person. In the durge's case, maybe not a "soul" specifically, but a sense of self and a sentient creature that grew into more then what Bhaal originally made, and so can't be fully erased even when Bhaal takes back everything he put into it's creation. There's defo a thematic trend in the writing re: actions or intent on the Prime Material plane can shape a being and/or "soul" in a way that their gods don't fully understand once they die and end up in another plane.
@@vampirelordx1either way their souls are not useful to gods, which is the main "point" of souls in the opinion of gods and the main reason gods have an interest in mortals, especially a "god" like Vlaakith
I think another reason why Laezel wouldn't be accepted for ascension is because of the belief that Mindflayers have no souls. Meaning Vlaakith wouldn't have anything to consume. Of course this is mostly wrong due to the alternative ending with Withers. But that is the common conclusion of all, even the Githyanki.
Well, is it possible that since withers could not account for thee, that the mind flayer PC has a different kind of soul, one that withers could sense, but Vlaakith could not? It’s an interesting concept that I choose to believe for the sake of making sense. Realistically that cutscene is meant for laezel isnt it? So from a coding/gameplay perspective, you were never meant to be there as a mind flayer. So like. The answer is literally, that vlaakith would kill laezel to help her own ascension
Well no it’s not necessarily wrong, as that explanation seems more like fan service since you’re an exception to the rule if you become one. So realistically she would assume that you didn’t have a soul for her to take and since Vlakith isn’t a god it would make a lot of sense for her not to know that info.
@@senilegoldsmith4112You gotta remember that Vlakith is a false god unlike Withers. One of my favorite Easter eggs is how she uses the spell wish to kill your party if you insult her in act 1, which is a little hint for players who might not know she isn’t a god.
@@ryanator7935In canon Illithids do have souls, they just do not go to the Gods in death (since that would be the host's soul and that's long gone with ceremorphosis, the Illithid is a different soul and individual), it is not fanservice. 'just sayin.
@@WarmHealerrbaldur's gate canon doesn't always adhere to forgotten realms canon (or even its own sometimes, rip sarevok you were a real one), something which has been true throughout all three games! it's worth thinking of bg3 as a campaign in the setting but with its own rules, i think. things don't make sense otherwise (such as why is jergal/withers weirdly nice to you, why are the dead three cultists dressed like that, why isn't the protag of bg1/2 10 years old, etc), so in regards to bg3 *specifically*, i think taking dnd lore over what they tell you in-game doesn't really work tbh? that said, i think it's possible the effects of the netherese magic while the player turns into an illithid may have messed with how they work in the divine cosmology-magic above level 9 can do that to someone
Feels like Lae'zel takes the most work of any companion to get a good ending for. Especially since at multiple points she is willing to throw hands if you make a decision she disagrees with.
Seriously, I start to panic every time she says something like "DEFY ME OR MY QUEEN AND I WILL DISEMBOWEL YOU" because I know she is a mad lass enough to try to fight the whole group over her beliefs, wrong as they are.
Funny you mention that, in my very first playthrough as a half elf wizard, I did just that. I guess what made it easy for me is that once you realise she actually likes it when you show authority/strength and she also listens to logical arguments (with some persuasion)
@@PR-fw4cv It's almost funny how reasonable she can be even when you expect her to be the opposite. I thought it would take 30 DC, maybe even 99 DC to convince her to use the tadpole, but no, it is an average 15 DC check, and also, in the Shadowheart&Lae'zel scuffle event, Shadowheart takes 15 DC to convince not to murder a party member, while Lae'zel only takes 10. She is brash and pragmatic to a fault but she is actually very smart and can be easily convinced to see reason. Her lines that stayed with me the most were: after Elminster's speech to Gale, she says about Mystra: "She demands his faith but has no faith in him." and when I accepted Bhaal in my evil playthrough she said "Bhaal's chosen. You must think yourself so mighty. Yet you were already mighty, and you would have been even mightier, had you defied him." The only times when she can get unreasonable is when you challenge Vlaakith. She is so zealous about her dream, the red dragon, silver sword, astral plane and all that noise, that she is willing to throw away reason for it. That dream is what she lived for after all. And EVEN THEN, she sees how stupid believing in a queen that was going to devour her soul and discard her is after she is told by Voss. She can still choose reason over her whole life's purpose.
My first playthrough I saved her and got her a good ending, inheriting Orpheus' role as liberator of her people. And it largely has to do with the fact that I knew a little bit about Gith going in-- Mostly that they had a LONG history with mind flayers and fought brutally for freedom from them. My character was also a wizard like PR's, so I like to imagine him being well-read as wizards tend to be had to do with knowing that. Because of that I was able to put aside her abrasive personality and trust her judgement; "If anyone would know how to get rid of this thing, it's her people." That trust I had in her judgement ended up as the foundation for our companionship when she realized she was being deceived.
@@kyoko703 Uff it would be so cool! ! if Lazel could turn the sword and kill Vlakith and then take over the throne and become new githyanki god which could have been her plan all along since that part in creche where vlakith gets demasked by the artifact creature . So after creche situation Lazael could promise herself to end her reign for betraying all gith by fake promises and once she gets that chance in end game she makes it a reality and takes revenge .
"Only a few players have seen this" yes because killing yourself after all you've accomplished is stupid. Maybe symbolic to the Gith, but Lae'zel has done enough to be a legend.
I was already in my Lae Zel origin run when I saw those stats. But I don't seem to have the option since I didn't support Vlaakith during the 2nd encounter. That's why it's so rare. Most people are going to support Orpheus. It looks like I'd have to replay all of act 3 if I want to see this, I don't think I'll bother.
I'm guessing playing Lae'zel is uncommon, completing the game is uncommon, having her become a mind flayer is even more uncommon, and then having her do The Big Oof is ever rarer. Once you stack multiple factors like that, the numbers thin quickly. I wouldn't know the exact stats, but assuming each "filter" removes 95% of players, you get 750 players from the starting 120 million. Given that the reports were voluntary 34 is actually pretty reasonable.
The first ending you showed made me think, shouldn't the mindflayers have some kind of countermeasure when the take over a host that absolutely despises them? With so many illithid hating species, you'd think they'd develop some way not to immediately kill themselves when transforming.
Reasonably certain the only reason that's an option in the PC's case is because they're either with Orpheus or ate Orpheus, OR, to be fair, because the elder brain that was near them/controlling the illithid's in the area is now dead. Now the real question I've got is can you "free" a full mindflayer by exposing them to Orpheus/his powers? Is there even anything TO free or does being a mindflayer not inhibit their freewill or sense of self as much as some (i.e. Ansur) believe it does so long as they aren't being acted upon by an elder brain? Feel like we're getting into grey area there, but the idea has fun implications for Balduran and Ansur, and the Emperor's apparent lack of personality change once exposed to Orpheus vs just being away from the moonrise elder brain once Ansur originally rescued him. Mainly that Ansur was wrong to try and mercy kill Balduran specifically for becoming a mindflayer, and also that Balduran being manipulative douchebag probably can't be blamed on his transformation into one. >.> (Though to be fair, we already knew that because of Omeluum's existence, and general goat'd behavior.)
@@valkyrie-randgrisyeah, I think Omeluum is the perfect example of a more normal Illithid. It never once refers to a previous being before transformation, nor feigns an identity outside of being a mind flayer. It refers to illithids as “my species”, and is penitent for its people past. Basically it very clearly is the mind flayer through and through, it has no identity beyond Omeluum the illithid. Its implied that those with a certain strength of character can retain some, or all of their previous identity in spite of the transformation, such as Balduran. Additionally the netherese affected tadpoles have some sort of effect, given that the newly birthed illithid in the windmill retains the personality and continuance with the true soul before it, but that could also be the results of the brain. But yeah its all funky.
Mind Flayers rarely retain their old personalities upon transformation. The Emperor is a rare exception. You only manage it because Orpheus or whoever steals Orpheus' power cuts you off from the Elder Brain just after transformation.
@@richytheking1315 To be clear The Emperor is not Balduran. It's a Mindflayer that has all of his memories and mimics him to gaslight you and be extremely manipulative.
It would be interesting to see the split of first endings and whatnot people chose/saw. I imagine the people that saw the Laezel suicide are the kind of people that saw a lot of ending across multiple playthroughs and reloads.
tbf origin character implementation is kinda bad in general, you lose so much while playing them its just kinda...not as fun as seeing their stories as companions.
Speaking as someone who did play 2 Tavs first before I started playing Origin, part of the charm of playing origin is the unique bonuses and perspective a Tav won't get. For example, only origin Gale can get a bonus level 3 magic slot as well as Tara appearing earlier at the camp. Astarion also has some unique cutscenes when played as origin
@@timetochronicle eh the only reason to play as an Origin would be to play as Will, as no one really takes him a long as he has the most boring side story. But then you still lose a voice actor, and don't get the tons of dark urge stuff. Dark Urge has a huge amount of content that can only be found if you play as him/her
I tested exactly that, first, thinking that's how the second version was accessed. But I showed it briefly in the video: if you choose to let him live, it skips straight to the later part on the dock, as though Lae'zel had already chosen to stay in Faerun.
There's a few different flags for Lae'zel and Vlaakith/Orpheus, but it's mostly binary. The other origins are envious of Shadowheart for how many points she has.
Were the ladies who spoke up for you tagged as romance targets? I found it interesting that halfling was the least favorite race, despite having the strongest racial passive. On honor mode, I once got the Red Dragon down to Cull the Weak hp on round 2, and missed 4 90%+ hits! It was so absurd I double checked that Karmic Dice were off.
Nope, no romance; this playthrough was completed at turbo speed (which is why everyone is in their default armor). From a glance at the dialogue file for that scene, it appears that Shadowheart will always be chosen to react if she's present, but everyone else seems to be chosen at random. But with Shadowheart kicked out, Minthara has reacted every time I've run through that scene, so I'm not sure how random it actually is. And I agree about Halfling's racial passive. I think people just don't want to be that short . .
That's what I thought, too. But when I tried that, letting Orpheus live just skipped straight over any chance to ask to ascend and moved on to the rest of the ending.
I remember my first playthrough I played Tav, became a mindflayer, dated Lae'zel, only for her to dump me for being one and running off to fight with her queen. I remember the finality of the sewerslide ending, that it made sense for my character.
Vlaakith doesn't want anyone to be remotely the same level as her. Or finding out she's just a high level wizard and not a god. Hence why when you encounter her and you annoy her she says she "WISHES" you stopped existing.
Wtf?? U don't know??...have u ever done a playthrough against her? Voss will explain(i think? I dont remember) It is also how she could use the "wish" spell without any consequences
It's simpler than that, from what I have seen from skimming. But yep, I have that on the list of things to include in a future video(s) about the other companions.
@@SlimXG awesome, I feel like sometimes it's incredibly easy to convince him not to ascend, and other times he will RQ your party if you don't handle it delicately.
Yeah, that particular epilogue with Withers happens any time you choose to stab yourself as a mindflayer. There's also the Dark Urge version you mentioned, as well as well as Karlach or Gale who exploded (one for each way of Gale exploding). Now that I take a closer look, it appears that the file checks if you are Dark Urge, Gale, or a mindflayer, and if you are none of those three, it just assumes you're Karlach without actually checking. That's kinda funny.
how do they count it? For example I reached the end of the game and had to choose to destroy the brain or to wield it and I make a save, first I watch what happens if I wield it, then I load the game and I watch what happens if I destroy it what goes to the statistics? Am I counted as the one who chose to wield it or as the one who chose to destroy it? What if I check all the outcomes?
Usually these types of stats are collected per user. Meaning selecting the same outcome twice or more only counted once. But reloading and selecting two outcomes would be two separate different stats (events) and both counted.
I think I’m some kind of prophet for your videos, because every time I ask something in the comments of your last one, you seem to have an upload queued to answer me. Does Minthara have multiple endings? Or Halsin? I’ve only ever seen one for them. Oh, and speaking of endings, what decides whether shadowheart will be an adventurer or a farm girl? Is it just her parents state?
I've only glanced at Shadowheart's epilogue stuff, but it does seem to come down mostly to Shar/Selune and parents/no parents. Minthara, I've still barely looked at, and Halsin? Never heard of him.
hey just thought i would mention if another party member becomes illithid (Karlach) and Orpheus is freed while laezel is loyal to vlaaketh then you will get the ending where the Gith version of lae'zel kills herself.
Have you seen that route actually produce that result? That was the first thing I tested, assuming that was the method to reach that ending, and after letting Orpheus go, it just skipped straight to the post-Gith part of the ending with no chance to call out to Vlaakith.
@@SlimXG haha, fair enough. though, i do know there's monetization through comission/patetron as well as what nexus itself offers creators but ik that's a lot it's just a suggestion since you're doing the half the work already and it could direct eyes from people downloading your mods to your channel.
What if you get Karlach to become mind flayer, so both Lae'zel and Orpheus can still live as Githyanki? Wouldn't that work instead of setting the flags manually?
That was the first thing I tried, assuming that was the normal method. But after you let Orpheus go free, it completely skipped the chance to call out to Vlaakith and went straight to the rest of the other companion dock scenes.
That was the first thing I tried, but when I let Orpheus live, it skipped right over the chance to call out to Vlaakith and moved on to the rest of the ending
What would happen if you play as Lae’zel and let Karlach become the mind flayer. Could you be rejected for saving Orpheus that way still not a mind flayer yourself?
That was the first thing I tried, thinking that was the expected path to reach that outcome. But as I mentioned in the video, if Orpheus lives in that scenario, it just skips over the chance to ascend and continues the rest of the ending.
I'm assuming you have to be loyal to Vlaakith during the 2nd encounter? I never got these options. I just finished my Lae Zel origin playthrough today. I don't remember when that 2nd encounter is, maybe the end of Act 2? I'd have to replay quite a bit to see this ending I suspect.
Yeah, if you're on the Orpheus path, the whole calling out to Vlaakith scene is skipped. The scene where Vlaakith appears in camp to command Lae'zel to kill Orpheus is early in Act 3.
Was it only 34 chose to stab themselves as either the mindflayer Lae'zel or the not-mindflayer Lae'zel in the end? Or is it only one of those two specifically that the data on the 34 players describes? Because I did the first one and even have a screenshot to prove it but I feel like its too unlikely for me to be one of those 34
Larian didn't specifiy, they just said only 34 players as avatar Lae'zel chose killing herself when Vlaakith denied her ascension. When I started digging in the files, I found the non-mindflayer version and tried to trigger it the only way that made sense (Orpheus turning Karlach into a mindflayer), but doing that skipped over the scene of Lae'zel calling out to Vlaakith. So it seems that the Lae'zel as a mindflayer version is the only one that currently works, suggesting that's what Larian is referring to. The 34 number is also only for people that reported their stats to Larian, which is not everyone that plays.
This makes me wonder how many people became a Mind Flayer and then committed sudoku at the end. I know in my first playthrough I fought as hard as possible to reject the squid in every way I could. Was forced to choose between myself and Orpheus becoming a squid. Chose to make the sacrifice myself. Got to the end knew that my character had become exactly what I had been trying to avoid the whole game. So he GG'd himself. I was very, very pissed off. Absolutely hated this ending. Re-loaded, did the party ending, realised I was right to be peeved when you find out your character is not really in control of their own actions. Re-loaded again. Still didn't want Orpheus to become a squid. Finally found a way to make no one a squid by using Lae'zel and Gale. Gale became the true hero of the story and my hero for making an ending I actually liked and was really happy with.
wait. only 34 people? is that specifically with lazael? because i choose that ending except with my custom character. i was a gith, first pass through as a bard. and i saw this. ending tf. only 34? are you sure? 🤔
Patch 7 Update: Making Karlach into a mind flayer and letting Orpheus live on the dock still skips the ascension scene and proceeds straight to the later dock scenes.
I love that Larian shared this data, and wonder what other cutscenes are rare like this one. Crazy to think that only 34 people found it in a year when millions played the game. Thanks for posting Slim. The ending ascension cinematic has always felt like one of the coolest endings the game has to offer. Can't wait to get my hands on the new patch 7 ones as well.
It's interesting to think how it filters down from people that even played as Lae'zel, to staying loyal to Vlaakith (when the game keeps nudging her toward Orpheus), choosing to become a mindflayer, and then after all that being all, "Hell yeah, I'm ready to ascend!" and SO loyal to Vlaakith that they go full RP . .
@@SlimXG I almost got that ending in my honor mode run. I went to the Orpheus turning point planning to make Karlach a mind flayer, but I didn't get the option, and I had already rejected the emperor. So as Lae'zel I had to become a mindflayer (or Orpheus, but my plan the whole time had been to get the Lae'zel joins Orpheus ending). Lae'zel became a mindflayer. I still had the option to kill Orpheus, but I didn't take it. If I would have, I guess I could have gotten this option. Since it was honor mode, I couldn't take back any decisions so I was pretty cornered.
@@SlimXG those are so many things players rarely choose so it really explain why so low people have seen it
Im more surprised that Minthara cares enough to tell someone not to commit suicide...
Hahah I made a point of including her reaction
Minthara is ride or die, she's evil certainly but extremely loyal if she likes you
@@bluegum6438 yeah thats why it makes me doubt Larian's claim she is irredeemably evil. If she is ride or die and Tav is good then she compromises with Tav and her actions reflect good.
If the actions are inheritantly good despite an evil mentality and future actions do good can one truely say Minthara is irredeemably evil?
@@inditiva6203 well My "True" play through is Lawfull Good and romance Minthara. Her reaction is like She still have ambition of "Oppressive Conqueror" but with more moral. She lead Tav to form an Army and overthrone her own city (which was under her parent).
Evil people just Legitly cannot see why good people do good, and have zero motivation to it. which Minthara still is in the Epilogue.
@@InnerTriggerer my point is that actions speak louder than words so if Tav leads her to do good and she lives her life doing good with Tav then even if her logic drives her to evil conclusions her actions speak louder
Shadowheart: Laezel, no!
Also her: 1 meter apart, 5 seconds chance to intervene the stab
she only had to put the turn-base mode and stop her... what is she even doing ???
Hahah good point. At least Minthara woulda had to jump down and lose the high ground.
Shadowheart *being a Cleric with healing spells watching you self-inflicting 1d4 of piercing damage*: there is nothing I can do 😢
Casts Command "Drop"...
@@Nathyouss No one can outdamage the Murder Knife. Anyone who plays Dragon Age knows what I'm talking about.
That epilogue with Withers was such a setup for a dlc, I'm sad now.
For reals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DLC?
Enhance edition!
@@farn1991 Enhanced edition ?
DEFINITIVE EDITION !
Blame Hasbro.
@@campagnecorentin7110 nope. we know that patch 7 will be the last content addition to the game. after that all back end things like crossplay
Yeah as is the core of the plan of the dead 3, illithids have no Soul so Vlakith has no need for a Mind Flayer as it doesn't help her ascension to Godhood.
TBH this is very rare because how unlikely it is for PCs to do such a strange flow of events, besides curiosity. Vlakith is already a bad deity, being a mind flayer isn't the greatest option and worse of all being both makes no sense.
If the Durge or Tav become a mindflayer and kty, Withers sees you, interacts with you, afterwards. He makes a comment that the whole “Mindflayers don’t have a soul” thing may not be as true as everyone thought. He doesn’t know what it is he is speaking to. I think they do have souls, just not like every other being in existence.
@@vampirelordx1 It feels related to the outcome a redeemed durge gets. The idea Withers plants that something can "grow" in a person. In the durge's case, maybe not a "soul" specifically, but a sense of self and a sentient creature that grew into more then what Bhaal originally made, and so can't be fully erased even when Bhaal takes back everything he put into it's creation. There's defo a thematic trend in the writing re: actions or intent on the Prime Material plane can shape a being and/or "soul" in a way that their gods don't fully understand once they die and end up in another plane.
@@vampirelordx1either way their souls are not useful to gods, which is the main "point" of souls in the opinion of gods and the main reason gods have an interest in mortals, especially a "god" like Vlaakith
@@vampirelordx1 I think the lack of mindflayer souls is a chain of misinterpretation from "ceremorphosis causes you to lose your humanoid soul"
@@Cassapphic*apostolic soul
Ah, man, the voice acting in this game is soooo _god damn_ good... 😌
I think another reason why Laezel wouldn't be accepted for ascension is because of the belief that Mindflayers have no souls. Meaning Vlaakith wouldn't have anything to consume. Of course this is mostly wrong due to the alternative ending with Withers. But that is the common conclusion of all, even the Githyanki.
Well, is it possible that since withers could not account for thee, that the mind flayer PC has a different kind of soul, one that withers could sense, but Vlaakith could not? It’s an interesting concept that I choose to believe for the sake of making sense. Realistically that cutscene is meant for laezel isnt it? So from a coding/gameplay perspective, you were never meant to be there as a mind flayer. So like. The answer is literally, that vlaakith would kill laezel to help her own ascension
Well no it’s not necessarily wrong, as that explanation seems more like fan service since you’re an exception to the rule if you become one. So realistically she would assume that you didn’t have a soul for her to take and since Vlakith isn’t a god it would make a lot of sense for her not to know that info.
@@senilegoldsmith4112You gotta remember that Vlakith is a false god unlike Withers. One of my favorite Easter eggs is how she uses the spell wish to kill your party if you insult her in act 1, which is a little hint for players who might not know she isn’t a god.
@@ryanator7935In canon Illithids do have souls, they just do not go to the Gods in death (since that would be the host's soul and that's long gone with ceremorphosis, the Illithid is a different soul and individual), it is not fanservice. 'just sayin.
@@WarmHealerrbaldur's gate canon doesn't always adhere to forgotten realms canon (or even its own sometimes, rip sarevok you were a real one), something which has been true throughout all three games! it's worth thinking of bg3 as a campaign in the setting but with its own rules, i think. things don't make sense otherwise (such as why is jergal/withers weirdly nice to you, why are the dead three cultists dressed like that, why isn't the protag of bg1/2 10 years old, etc), so in regards to bg3 *specifically*, i think taking dnd lore over what they tell you in-game doesn't really work tbh?
that said, i think it's possible the effects of the netherese magic while the player turns into an illithid may have messed with how they work in the divine cosmology-magic above level 9 can do that to someone
Withers called us a friend!!!
I'm melting fr 🥺
@@Li_Tobler i read that as mating
Glad to see that Shadowheart cares about Lae'zel in these
She yells out in concern for Lae’zel when she’s being killed by the Zaith’isk as well.
Canon power couple
Wasn't expecting another video so soon! Thanks for showing these endings.
A video that didn't take me a month to make?! Madness!
Feels like Lae'zel takes the most work of any companion to get a good ending for. Especially since at multiple points she is willing to throw hands if you make a decision she disagrees with.
Seriously, I start to panic every time she says something like "DEFY ME OR MY QUEEN AND I WILL DISEMBOWEL YOU" because I know she is a mad lass enough to try to fight the whole group over her beliefs, wrong as they are.
Funny you mention that, in my very first playthrough as a half elf wizard, I did just that. I guess what made it easy for me is that once you realise she actually likes it when you show authority/strength and she also listens to logical arguments (with some persuasion)
@@PR-fw4cv It's almost funny how reasonable she can be even when you expect her to be the opposite. I thought it would take 30 DC, maybe even 99 DC to convince her to use the tadpole, but no, it is an average 15 DC check, and also, in the Shadowheart&Lae'zel scuffle event, Shadowheart takes 15 DC to convince not to murder a party member, while Lae'zel only takes 10. She is brash and pragmatic to a fault but she is actually very smart and can be easily convinced to see reason. Her lines that stayed with me the most were: after Elminster's speech to Gale, she says about Mystra: "She demands his faith but has no faith in him." and when I accepted Bhaal in my evil playthrough she said "Bhaal's chosen. You must think yourself so mighty. Yet you were already mighty, and you would have been even mightier, had you defied him."
The only times when she can get unreasonable is when you challenge Vlaakith. She is so zealous about her dream, the red dragon, silver sword, astral plane and all that noise, that she is willing to throw away reason for it. That dream is what she lived for after all. And EVEN THEN, she sees how stupid believing in a queen that was going to devour her soul and discard her is after she is told by Voss. She can still choose reason over her whole life's purpose.
My first playthrough I saved her and got her a good ending, inheriting Orpheus' role as liberator of her people.
And it largely has to do with the fact that I knew a little bit about Gith going in-- Mostly that they had a LONG history with mind flayers and fought brutally for freedom from them. My character was also a wizard like PR's, so I like to imagine him being well-read as wizards tend to be had to do with knowing that. Because of that I was able to put aside her abrasive personality and trust her judgement; "If anyone would know how to get rid of this thing, it's her people."
That trust I had in her judgement ended up as the foundation for our companionship when she realized she was being deceived.
Wow that last one is so creepy, I love it
So who stopped the sword? Could the sword fly back to or perhaps back at the queen???
@@kyoko703 Uff it would be so cool! ! if Lazel could turn the sword and kill Vlakith and then take over the throne and become new githyanki god which could have been her plan all along since that part in creche where vlakith gets demasked by the artifact creature . So after creche situation Lazael could promise herself to end her reign for betraying all gith by fake promises and once she gets that chance in end game she makes it a reality and takes revenge .
"Only a few players have seen this" yes because killing yourself after all you've accomplished is stupid. Maybe symbolic to the Gith, but Lae'zel has done enough to be a legend.
Amazing! Always something new in BG3. Good to see it.
When I saw a number that LOW my brain broke. Min 100k players for a year and ONLY 34 FUCKING PEOPLE?!
Well, technically, it's only 34 people that reported their statistics to Larian, but that was hard to fit on the thumbnail.
I was already in my Lae Zel origin run when I saw those stats. But I don't seem to have the option since I didn't support Vlaakith during the 2nd encounter. That's why it's so rare. Most people are going to support Orpheus. It looks like I'd have to replay all of act 3 if I want to see this, I don't think I'll bother.
I'm guessing playing Lae'zel is uncommon, completing the game is uncommon, having her become a mind flayer is even more uncommon, and then having her do The Big Oof is ever rarer.
Once you stack multiple factors like that, the numbers thin quickly. I wouldn't know the exact stats, but assuming each "filter" removes 95% of players, you get 750 players from the starting 120 million. Given that the reports were voluntary 34 is actually pretty reasonable.
just shows how annoying the character laezael is, that only 34 people want to play as her lol
@user-kx5yg4rv1e Are you actually stupid enough to think that all 34 people who played as Laezel got this ending, or are you memeing.
The first ending you showed made me think, shouldn't the mindflayers have some kind of countermeasure when the take over a host that absolutely despises them? With so many illithid hating species, you'd think they'd develop some way not to immediately kill themselves when transforming.
Usually that'd be the whole mind control thing. No Elder Brain means no control over the player.
Reasonably certain the only reason that's an option in the PC's case is because they're either with Orpheus or ate Orpheus, OR, to be fair, because the elder brain that was near them/controlling the illithid's in the area is now dead.
Now the real question I've got is can you "free" a full mindflayer by exposing them to Orpheus/his powers? Is there even anything TO free or does being a mindflayer not inhibit their freewill or sense of self as much as some (i.e. Ansur) believe it does so long as they aren't being acted upon by an elder brain?
Feel like we're getting into grey area there, but the idea has fun implications for Balduran and Ansur, and the Emperor's apparent lack of personality change once exposed to Orpheus vs just being away from the moonrise elder brain once Ansur originally rescued him. Mainly that Ansur was wrong to try and mercy kill Balduran specifically for becoming a mindflayer, and also that Balduran being manipulative douchebag probably can't be blamed on his transformation into one. >.> (Though to be fair, we already knew that because of Omeluum's existence, and general goat'd behavior.)
@@valkyrie-randgrisyeah, I think Omeluum is the perfect example of a more normal Illithid. It never once refers to a previous being before transformation, nor feigns an identity outside of being a mind flayer. It refers to illithids as “my species”, and is penitent for its people past. Basically it very clearly is the mind flayer through and through, it has no identity beyond Omeluum the illithid.
Its implied that those with a certain strength of character can retain some, or all of their previous identity in spite of the transformation, such as Balduran. Additionally the netherese affected tadpoles have some sort of effect, given that the newly birthed illithid in the windmill retains the personality and continuance with the true soul before it, but that could also be the results of the brain. But yeah its all funky.
Mind Flayers rarely retain their old personalities upon transformation. The Emperor is a rare exception. You only manage it because Orpheus or whoever steals Orpheus' power cuts you off from the Elder Brain just after transformation.
@@richytheking1315 To be clear The Emperor is not Balduran. It's a Mindflayer that has all of his memories and mimics him to gaslight you and be extremely manipulative.
It would be interesting to see the split of first endings and whatnot people chose/saw.
I imagine the people that saw the Laezel suicide are the kind of people that saw a lot of ending across multiple playthroughs and reloads.
I was so curios when I saw that stat, thanks for this
I was hoping someone would post this in the days after Larian's stats
Holy cow I never would have expected this ending. Thanks for sharing!
Been hunting for this since I saw the stats thank you
Shadowheart calling out to Lae'zel 😢
She tried to knock the dagger out of Lae'zel's hands with Sacred Flame, but it missed.
93% of people playing choose custom characters
That's why this number is low. Who wants to play this origin character?
tbf origin character implementation is kinda bad in general, you lose so much while playing them its just kinda...not as fun as seeing their stories as companions.
@@sanderkiki Exactly, not even to mention that you basically lose a voice actor as they insist the character you play is a mute for some reason
Speaking as someone who did play 2 Tavs first before I started playing Origin, part of the charm of playing origin is the unique bonuses and perspective a Tav won't get. For example, only origin Gale can get a bonus level 3 magic slot as well as Tara appearing earlier at the camp. Astarion also has some unique cutscenes when played as origin
@@timetochronicle eh the only reason to play as an Origin would be to play as Will, as no one really takes him a long as he has the most boring side story.
But then you still lose a voice actor, and don't get the tons of dark urge stuff. Dark Urge has a huge amount of content that can only be found if you play as him/her
Withers went full on G-Man with his hinting about the story not being over
Damn you are fast! Thanks for sharing this!
Isn't the second version possible to achieve through normal means if Karlach becomes a mind flayer?
that’s what i was thinkin
Well, then you don't kill orpheus and the option to ascend isn't avaible, so you cant get rejected
I tested exactly that, first, thinking that's how the second version was accessed. But I showed it briefly in the video: if you choose to let him live, it skips straight to the later part on the dock, as though Lae'zel had already chosen to stay in Faerun.
You can let Karlach be the mind flayer. That way Orpheus lives and Lae Zeal gets rejected.
I tried that first, but when I chose to let Orpheus live, it skipped over the scene of asking to ascend and moved on to the rest of the ending.
Is there any Orpheus point system for Laezel? Im guessing if not, there is just a flag checked if you agreed to work with Voss after the Creche.
There's a few different flags for Lae'zel and Vlaakith/Orpheus, but it's mostly binary. The other origins are envious of Shadowheart for how many points she has.
@@SlimXG Shadowheart: Points' favorite Princess
@@SlimXG Maybe Gale can compete?
@@adnaP_esreveR He did manage to get me to draw colored meters, but he's still lower on the points scale . .
My lazy azz, it would’ve been 35. 😭 I still got the save file where I freed Orpheus. I still made Karlach transform instead.
Were the ladies who spoke up for you tagged as romance targets?
I found it interesting that halfling was the least favorite race, despite having the strongest racial passive. On honor mode, I once got the Red Dragon down to Cull the Weak hp on round 2, and missed 4 90%+ hits! It was so absurd I double checked that Karmic Dice were off.
Nope, no romance; this playthrough was completed at turbo speed (which is why everyone is in their default armor). From a glance at the dialogue file for that scene, it appears that Shadowheart will always be chosen to react if she's present, but everyone else seems to be chosen at random. But with Shadowheart kicked out, Minthara has reacted every time I've run through that scene, so I'm not sure how random it actually is.
And I agree about Halfling's racial passive. I think people just don't want to be that short . .
people hate playing the short races 😭😭 i don't get why they're so fun
I wish we had a DLC about the githyanki civil war, but we all know it will never happen.
i think you should be able to see that second ending in a legit playthrough if you let karlach become a mindflayer, right?
That's what I thought, too. But when I tried that, letting Orpheus live just skipped straight over any chance to ask to ascend and moved on to the rest of the ending.
I remember my first playthrough I played Tav, became a mindflayer, dated Lae'zel, only for her to dump me for being one and running off to fight with her queen.
I remember the finality of the sewerslide ending, that it made sense for my character.
so vlakkath kills you if you ascended??? the hell
The sad truth . .
She's very very evil
Vlaakith doesn't want anyone to be remotely the same level as her. Or finding out she's just a high level wizard and not a god. Hence why when you encounter her and you annoy her she says she "WISHES" you stopped existing.
Wtf?? U don't know??...have u ever done a playthrough against her? Voss will explain(i think? I dont remember)
It is also how she could use the "wish" spell without any consequences
can you do a video on the points scores for Astarion ascending vs not ascending? or is it as simple as "do evil things"?
It's simpler than that, from what I have seen from skimming. But yep, I have that on the list of things to include in a future video(s) about the other companions.
@@SlimXG awesome, I feel like sometimes it's incredibly easy to convince him not to ascend, and other times he will RQ your party if you don't handle it delicately.
Saw that withers epilogue video on my page I did it as durge
Yeah, that particular epilogue with Withers happens any time you choose to stab yourself as a mindflayer. There's also the Dark Urge version you mentioned, as well as well as Karlach or Gale who exploded (one for each way of Gale exploding).
Now that I take a closer look, it appears that the file checks if you are Dark Urge, Gale, or a mindflayer, and if you are none of those three, it just assumes you're Karlach without actually checking. That's kinda funny.
What is source of that image with stats at the start of video?
It was originally posted on the official BG3 twitter account
Now I wonder how rare is my shadowheart romances Laezel and flying off to fight against the queen ending.
Being called a friend by withers is one of the main reason I don't want to do an evil run. fk
how do they count it? For example I reached the end of the game and had to choose to destroy the brain or to wield it and I make a save, first I watch what happens if I wield it, then I load the game and I watch what happens if I destroy it what goes to the statistics? Am I counted as the one who chose to wield it or as the one who chose to destroy it? What if I check all the outcomes?
Yeah, I mean, maybe it was actually just one person who reloaded to watch Lae'zel stab herself 34 times.
Usually these types of stats are collected per user. Meaning selecting the same outcome twice or more only counted once. But reloading and selecting two outcomes would be two separate different stats (events) and both counted.
I think I’m some kind of prophet for your videos, because every time I ask something in the comments of your last one, you seem to have an upload queued to answer me.
Does Minthara have multiple endings? Or Halsin? I’ve only ever seen one for them. Oh, and speaking of endings, what decides whether shadowheart will be an adventurer or a farm girl? Is it just her parents state?
I've only glanced at Shadowheart's epilogue stuff, but it does seem to come down mostly to Shar/Selune and parents/no parents. Minthara, I've still barely looked at, and Halsin? Never heard of him.
hey just thought i would mention if another party member becomes illithid (Karlach) and Orpheus is freed while laezel is loyal to vlaaketh then you will get the ending where the Gith version of lae'zel kills herself.
Have you seen that route actually produce that result? That was the first thing I tested, assuming that was the method to reach that ending, and after letting Orpheus go, it just skipped straight to the post-Gith part of the ending with no chance to call out to Vlaakith.
Would someone be so kind to explain the final cutscene? Did Vlaabitch killed Lae? Are those "giths" with glowing eyes are dead?
I'm no lore expert, but Voss says, "Nor does the lich queen glorify the ascended. She feeds on most all of them to grow her power and pursue godhood."
@@SlimXG ohhhh so probably soulless husks huhhhh makes sense
DID SHADOWHEART JUST SHOW CARE FOR LAEZEL?!
😯
Vlaakith doesn't eat squid 😅
I dunno; she looked pretty pleased, there, at the end . .
@@SlimXG Mind Flayers don't have souls for her to consume.
I've never seen this infographic anywhere official. Is it real? It always felt like a set-up for "Lae'zel rule 34" joke.
It was posted on the official BG3 twitter account. But now that you mention it . .
@@SlimXG Ah, I don't have Twitter, makes sense I couldn't find it.
Does withers show up in death scene all the time? Is this new update?
you would do numbers posting mods enabling cut content
Unfortunately, only people watching TH-cam videos generates the numbers I rely on at the grocery store
@@SlimXG haha, fair enough. though, i do know there's monetization through comission/patetron as well as what nexus itself offers creators but ik that's a lot it's just a suggestion since you're doing the half the work already and it could direct eyes from people downloading your mods to your channel.
What if you get Karlach to become mind flayer, so both Lae'zel and Orpheus can still live as Githyanki? Wouldn't that work instead of setting the flags manually?
That was the first thing I tried, assuming that was the normal method. But after you let Orpheus go free, it completely skipped the chance to call out to Vlaakith and went straight to the rest of the other companion dock scenes.
the last music is 🔥
7:53
Wait, but you could let Karlach turn into Illithid and leave Orpheus and Lae'Zel as Gith.
That was the first thing I tried, but when I let Orpheus live, it skipped right over the chance to call out to Vlaakith and moved on to the rest of the ending
What would happen if you play as Lae’zel and let Karlach become the mind flayer. Could you be rejected for saving Orpheus that way still not a mind flayer yourself?
That was the first thing I tried, thinking that was the expected path to reach that outcome. But as I mentioned in the video, if Orpheus lives in that scenario, it just skips over the chance to ascend and continues the rest of the ending.
I'm assuming you have to be loyal to Vlaakith during the 2nd encounter? I never got these options. I just finished my Lae Zel origin playthrough today. I don't remember when that 2nd encounter is, maybe the end of Act 2? I'd have to replay quite a bit to see this ending I suspect.
Yeah, if you're on the Orpheus path, the whole calling out to Vlaakith scene is skipped. The scene where Vlaakith appears in camp to command Lae'zel to kill Orpheus is early in Act 3.
Was it only 34 chose to stab themselves as either the mindflayer Lae'zel or the not-mindflayer Lae'zel in the end? Or is it only one of those two specifically that the data on the 34 players describes? Because I did the first one and even have a screenshot to prove it but I feel like its too unlikely for me to be one of those 34
Larian didn't specifiy, they just said only 34 players as avatar Lae'zel chose killing herself when Vlaakith denied her ascension. When I started digging in the files, I found the non-mindflayer version and tried to trigger it the only way that made sense (Orpheus turning Karlach into a mindflayer), but doing that skipped over the scene of Lae'zel calling out to Vlaakith. So it seems that the Lae'zel as a mindflayer version is the only one that currently works, suggesting that's what Larian is referring to.
The 34 number is also only for people that reported their stats to Larian, which is not everyone that plays.
I wonder if this is possible with a gith tav?
Do all of the companions have a line for "laezel, no!" ? If that's the case then some of them may never have been seen.
They do, indeed. Astarion even has two different ones, depending on if he is a lord or a spawn.
@@SlimXG Is there a video of all of them anywhere?
@@mollymemer I doubt it. Though I suppose I could rectify that situation . .
Here ya go:
th-cam.com/video/qTDTbn6onS8/w-d-xo.html
This makes me wonder how many people became a Mind Flayer and then committed sudoku at the end.
I know in my first playthrough I fought as hard as possible to reject the squid in every way I could. Was forced to choose between myself and Orpheus becoming a squid. Chose to make the sacrifice myself. Got to the end knew that my character had become exactly what I had been trying to avoid the whole game. So he GG'd himself.
I was very, very pissed off. Absolutely hated this ending. Re-loaded, did the party ending, realised I was right to be peeved when you find out your character is not really in control of their own actions. Re-loaded again. Still didn't want Orpheus to become a squid. Finally found a way to make no one a squid by using Lae'zel and Gale. Gale became the true hero of the story and my hero for making an ending I actually liked and was really happy with.
Why no music?
Just to keep the audio cleaner when I have to cut between scenes
wait. only 34 people? is that specifically with lazael? because i choose that ending except with my custom character. i was a gith, first pass through as a bard. and i saw this. ending tf. only 34? are you sure? 🤔
The 34 number comes from Larian, and it's specific to playing as avatar Lae'zel.
@@SlimXG thank you. 👍
Cmon shadowheart just use revivify
I finished the game 3 times and only got similar, boring endings.
Do not make much of a sense
The self unalive option is terrible writing