I bought the core set on a hot summer weekend in 2015. My friend and I sat down in the garden to quickly acquaint ourselves with the rules. Next thing I knew, it was midnight and we'd played more games than I dared to count. By the end of the weekend we had quite a few matches under our belts and terrible sunburns all over, which we refer to as Netrunner burns to this day. As Steam reviewers like to say, "10/10, would get sunburned again".
I introduced the game to a few people at my local game shop who saw me playing with a friend. I remember sitting down to play with someone I just met, sharing my own deck with him. He hit a whirlpool in my deck and freaked. I let him work out his own solution and I was so proud when he found a way out. When we finished the game he got out of his seat, grabbed a core set and paid for it. I felt awesome.
The way they describe Netrunner is pretty close to how my friends play Bridge. So many great stories, and even is the big tournaments stop, the game doesn't need new content!
Just want to say I watched this panel at SHUX and it was fantastic. If for some reason you clicked on this and still hadn't decided if it's worth the watch, it absolutely is.
Just wanted to say that this is the kind of content I really love about board gaming. The reviews, the unboxings, the news, it's all well and good. This is what I'm really looking for though. I love getting deeper into the conversation about gaming. How it makes us feel. The experiences. Talking about mechanics and strategies and how that intertwines with our gaming. This is definitely something I hope that SU&SD do more of.
I'm 15 minutes into this and it's a great discussion. I had some Rage cards sitting around for 15 years and I don't really know what happened to them...but I miss them.
I never got to play netrunner. And when I say never got to, i think Quinns mention of how 'going deep' on a game needs a 'perfect storm' is the perfect analogy. I tried getting into Street Fighter V when Quinns did (bounced off) and I bought into the 2nd edition of AGoT LCG, my local meta was a little too small and didn't excite me quite enough. I made that call because of the fact that I could be there from the start, and I was much more excited about Game of Thrones at the time, but Netrunner would've been a better idea because the games are shorter, the decks are smaller, the community is bigger, and the stories are just more exciting and evocative and diverse. Despite the fact that a perfect storm is important, I think netrunner's design is brilliant and remains pretty unique in the market. I hope it comes back, maybe so it can finally get me at the right moment, or can get the moment for a whole bunch of other new people. Maybe it'll be designed by some kid who played this version of netrunner. Or maybe the licence and Name of 'Netrunner' will never itself be important again, but it's design will have a legacy purely because it is such a notorious interesting game, with the power to create this kind of response to such a strange shocking quick ending. Edit: I forgot to mention, I watched the whole video to the end, absolutely brilliant discussion even for someone who never played netrunner. so fascinating.
Netrunner is not getting supported from FFG, It's only dead if you choose to leave it. I leave you with this question was it FFG that made Netrunner the game it was or was it the people that surrounded it?
This is amazing! i love the thought process of making RPG's into a season that has an end that can be satisfying to leave there, but when the creative wind blows again, the next series can continue with another ending that is satisfying. Great episode! (sorry for spelling) P.S. i still have my netrunner and i still love looking at it, just because it was a time in my gaming life i dont think will ever die. Good times with good friends!
For anyone just getting into Netrunner do not be put off by the discussion in this SUSD video. If you have one or more friends that you will play this game with then you will absolutely have an amazing time. Don't expect to find cards in new packs out there but there is a lot on the second hand market or you can just proxy cards. The fact the FFG doesn't make new content is sad for all those people wanting to play in tournaments and who felt a real sense of community in them. But as a game it is still so good and you don't have to rely on a wider community if you have friends who are into it.
I was so tempted to get into Netrunner when they announced the revamped core set but seeing what happened soon after, I'm glad I didn't as I would have been pretty gutted. I know it's different but this is why I don't feel quite so bad about having so much for Arkham Horror LCG - the fact that if they stopped making it tomorrow, it wouldn't be dead. I know it wouldn't be to everyone's taste, but I would be more than happy to play and replay it all with different characters, with different deck builds, making different story and gameplay decisions. With it being co-op means I can play it with pretty much anyone interested or I can and do play it solo. If anyone else wanted to join me, they could jump in and use my collection, not worrying about getting their hands on cards for an out-of-print 'dead' game or not having a 'competitive' deck.
The Marie Kondo book mentioned in the podcast is indeed great, and there is a show on Netflix now. Highly recommended. RIP Netrunner - one of my favorite games ever by far.
The death of Netrunner was similar to the death of the Star Wars CCG back in the early 2000s. Just playing something with a group of people and the game being a part of your life and taking physical space in your house and thinking of strategies with cards and combos and then.....dropped. It actually stings.
Except that Star Wars CCG (a wonderful wonderful game, but I am biased) actually lives on even now, over a decade and a half later, as Decipher empowered the Players Committee at the end of the game. Check this recent article: www.theringer.com/2018/5/21/17374528/star-wars-customizable-card-game-player-community
@@Nain1982 Yeah, I was still burned from the death of the CCG that I didn't go near the TCG. I got into the Star Wars RPGs pretty hard, at least when WotC cancelled the line you could still play with my friends cause RPGs don't need that same stream of new content that CCGs/LCGs do.
I got Netrunner over Christmas and I didn't know it had been discontinued until after I looked up expansions to get more cards. It's a real pity because whilst it's fun with the core set, I'd love to have more cards to play with. I'll definitely be continuing to play though.
@@billjensen51 ah if you only got it this Christmas the game is in a much better place. It's been carried on with new cards available to buy direct from them.
I've not played netrunner or a lcg, so I'm not sure I understand.... can't you still play android netrunner even though it isn't being supported? Isn't it still fun? or does it need new content all the time? Genuinely curious, thanks!
You can still play netrunner, and it's still fun! It is difficult to get official product, but you can find ways to print proxies if you want, or you can play online for free on jinteki.net. There is now a fan-run nonprofit organization called NISEI that is supporting netrunner, including coordinating tournaments, designing cards, curating a banlist, etc. They are limited by IP laws, of course, but similar efforts have been successful for other discontinued games.
Wait.. Did I miss something? Can we no longer play Netrunner? Must I burn my cards? If we play a game, will the Gaming Police kick in my door and black bag us? Netrunner may no longer be supported by FFG, but, I'm buggered if I'm going to stop playing it lol
@@mahna_mahna To paraphrase, its not dead as long as you play it. I remember when it died the first time, along with Vampire TES (Which may return soon it seems) and L5R (Which has returned..) I'm sure Netrunner will return. The license wasn't lost because it was a failure....
I felt the same way when Wizkids killed D&D Attack Wing. They had a bunch of upcoming expansions scheduled, were supporting and updating, and then they missed the report schedule, then expansions were pushed back for "reoganisation", then there was radio silence for almost a year. Any enquiries about the game were met with, "The game is fine, we will still suppoet it in the future, stuff is coming," and then a year later they discontinued it. I resented the way the player base was lead on the most. Telling us stuff was coming and delivering nothing. And just when the game balance was starting to rebalance and non dragon builds were getting good. It could have been a much better game, and they did a second edition of the Star Trek Attack Wing which readdressed problems, but D&D attack Wing was hung out to dry.
I had a similar with Star Trek Attack Wing. There was a very active, if small, local tournament/organized play scene for a few years. At times I was playing in 5 tournaments a month, sometimes 2-3 a week. That was great. When it first started some stores had 15+ players at some games, but in the end it was the same 5-6 players every game. Which is disappointing. But I have made some good friends out of that tournament scene.
I played Netrunner for a long time, I'm glad I did, I'm not happy that it's gone but maybe it's better to burn out than to fade away. And we still have the dedicated community and our cards and there's an Android RPG by FFG coming out! P.S. Arkham Horror LCG is legitimately amazing and I'm having even more fun with it than Netrunner but I guess I'm weird. :)
Phone out while on a live panel... darn kids. Kidding aside, great to hear from T7 one last time. They were one of the first ANR 'casts I got into, and enjoyed their entire run.
I bought the Netrunner core set back when the game first released and tired several times to absorb the rules but I just found some of the terminology really confusing to remember. I heard nothing but good things about the game over the years but just never managed to get over that initial rules hurdle. Eventually I sold it and got into other LCG models from FFG (specifically the 2nd edition of the Game of Thrones LCG which I really like). I'm sad to hear that it basically died (NISEI notwithstanding) as I doubt I'll ever play it now which is a shame as I love the theme and the idea of it.
getting really good at Street Fighter or fighting games in general takes awhile and it definitely helps to have a training partner to help each other improve and keep motivation up. If it's too much of a time investment, playing the genre casually isn't a crime.
I've played Netrunner from 2013 to 2015 and I can hardly call the Netrunner community "the best in the world". It had quite a lot of unique people playing it, most of them are nice, but there were some VERY famous exploits done by baaaad people :\
Has anyone ever tried starting an out-of-print LCG from the base set then allowing your group to have access to the expansions at the rate they were originally released? You could "restart" Netrunner within a much smaller eco system to sort of recreate the original release experience.
That Sunless Sea story is really neat. You basically set up for suicide and then when your character doesn't die it's as if they gain a new look on life. They realize that they're stronger now so they can actually go on living. Like when Vince and Jules survive the shooting at the beginning of Pulp Fiction and Jules decides to stop being a gangster.
Is the new coreset still worth picking up even though they won't expand on the game? I'm not a huge deck builder/card game player but my friends are and I was looking into netrunner but when i asked the guy at my local store he told me it was discontinued.
The revised core is a nice box in itself. There's plenty of game to be had from one copy. There's a fanmade organization that took up the mantle to continue A:NR called NISEI and they're planning on printing their own future expansions as far as I know.
I massively regret not getting into Netrunner while I had the chance; it sounds amazing, and while I'll probably do the thing of playing through the game's history with some friends, I know that I'll never know what it was like to be a fan at the time, and that pains me. I'm puzzled as to why everyone just stopped playing it though. Was there a reason beyond the game not being published anymore? Did events also lose the right to be a thing, or was the meta not in a good place at the time of its death? Regardless, this was a great panel, and thank you for sharing it.
Quinns makes me want to check out Monsterhearts. Which is weird because I generally don't like PBtA games. Lady Blackbird is a game which is free that does seem to have a prescribed ending, though it doesn't explicitly state so. I often play characters (even in D&D) and look for the "good death" and avoid the "bad death". I don't particularly like the idea of a campaign where you MUST die at the end because of the same reason I don't like a campaign where you're set to live on forever. Having it not be 'up in the air' is the problem. It sucks all the risk and therefore fun out of it.
Any game that you have played and liked is only dead if you let it die. So it is no longer being printed by FFG, find a way to have games. Create interesting formats, such as limiting which cycles you can use. or crazier still, only use either cards from the Core set (original or revised) and one cycle, eg: Lunar, and see how that plays out. This is coming from someone who loves the original Legend of the Five Rings, Doomtown and Netrunner. Still building "Old5R", Doomtown (and Doomtown Reloaded) and both Netrunner and Android: Netrunner decks. Find players either for face to face games (yeah, harder during the pandemic) or for online games. There is a way if you want there to be a way. (edit: As I am watching this in January of 2022, I just had a data pack get delivered.)
Spanish zeecaptain here...Zeecaptain of the "Alatriste" cruiser. Nice to find you guys here too! Such a small community and what a great game it is. BTW I hope you play sunless skies now!
The Mungus I started with fallen London back in high school and loved the quirky lore and Victorian setting but I only know 3 other people who've played but hey, maybe there are dozens of us! Dozens!!
You guys are lucky you have played games as long as you have to just now experience this.. L5R, Vs., I have had many games I loved fade away. I played L5R for decades and have a tattoo for the game.
Fantastic video. However, might get more views if you had some Netrunner graphics along with the interviewees. I scanned over the thumbnail multiple times before realizing this was a SU&SD video, or a video about Netrunner feom the thumbnail. I didn't get any sleep today, and so I think I'm a good comparison point for most people scanning through their video feeds, recommendeds, etc. Along with the Twilight Imperium video, thank you for going the Next Level to help us understand and appreciate board games.
I'm two years late to the party but a lot of comments screeching about how you can still play it. Sure you can. It also will cost me 300$ just for a base set -that is required to play the game- and I need two copies of, and will cost me an unbelievable amount to collect a set to just get one or two play sets of specific cards. The game's dead.
I bought a core set for £40 last week, it is possible! 😊 I never really knew about Netrunner til recently but I'm keen to play even if content is limited from FFG.
There is a real difference between the universes though. The world of Android Netrunner was built on optimism about the future and tried to look at how future tech would change the world. I really like that setting, it wouldn't be the same quite frankly.
Yes. You need a friend willing to learn it with you though, so you'll both at least start at the same skill level. It's the best two player game I've ever played. Nothing like it.
Netrunner was a game I was always almost buying but then ended up getting something else instead. Now I lost tge opportunity. Don't know how I feel about it...
FFG's license for Netrunner ran out. Normally, WotC would let them renew it and FFG would continue on their merry card printing way. That didn't happen. The license ran out and it wasn't renewed. Nothing has been explicitly stated on WHO stopped it from happening whether FFG didn't want to or WotC didn't allow it. The best clue as to whose fault it is would be to look at FFG's recent core set release. They revised their core set so it would be very strange for them to cancel their license. WotC most likely didn't allow FFG to renew it.
@@downsjmmyjones101 or it was too expensive to renew and the player base was never that big to recoup the costs wotc was asking for the renewal. Reminds me of WizKids and the Yu-Gi-Oh license, they did 3 really big sets in heroclix and a half-assed dicemaster set and dropped the license after that.
@@downsjmmyjones101 you ever play a dying card game? They usually put out some last hurrahs for the fan base that makes things easier for the legacy players. Bushiroad does this all the time when they sunset a game in order to either attempt one last revival or just give the people what they want while they are willing to make more prints.
Immediately after watching this video I was like "i should go watch The Office". So I open up Netflix and there, the title banner, is Tidying Up. Apparently she got a show.
You would call in a bomb threat if a friend left the country? Paul left the country, then SUSD, and you did NOTHING! I hope this comes across as the sarcasm it is meant to be.
I'm glad I got my weekly dose of hating on Magic: The Gathering from SU&SD, especially in a video about how another card game failed, when Magic's been going on for more than 25 years.
One of the rumours is tie in with cyberpunk 2077 since the original release of Netrunner in the 90s was linked to the cyberpunk setting. I've seen nothing to confirm it, but given the relative success of Gwent as digitial card game it would be a fairly sensible tie in for both WotC and CDProjekt.
@@gagrin1565 this is confirmed to not be true coming from the cdpr, at least at the time of the cancellation. If something comes up, it came up sometime after that point
Maybe I’m naive but why can’t you still play the game? They aren’t making you throw away your cards by law. I’m not trying to offend I’m just truly curious. You can still play the game so idk why everyone is acting like it’s been outlawed and you can’t play it together anymore.
Quinns bought into the release model of the LCGs he likes HARD. From everything I've heard him say, he seems to have bought every single Netrunner release and every single Arkham release in a timely manner and regards them as a lifestyle instead of just "a game you can play and like." There is NO reason you can't snuffle up some available Netrunner product or get into NISEI and enjoy the hell out of it. Knowing the meta by heart is not required. Having to own every single card is not required. I was just as baffled as you.
So, about tabletop RPGs and endings: The first time I ever ran a D&D game it went on for about 10 sessions and then crashed and burned. I didn't know quite what I was doing, I was railroading my players while also not doing enough to focus on a consistent story because I wanted to run ALL the monsters so one session I just had them teleported into an arena by the big bad of the campaign simply so I had an excuse for using various monsters that didn't really fit otherwise. And then I had them pushing into an apocalyptic wasteland -- corrupted by foul magics, undead and aberrations, which was going to lead into fighting the big bad once they got through his 5-level dungeon that I'd spent three weeks drawing out and plotting. Except the players just stopped caring before they got to the dungeon because the game was just a mess. Up to that point, I hadn't considered the game from their point of view. So, the next time I took the reins... was with World of Darkness (circa 2004/2005) with Mages. But this time I put the story first and foremost, stole heavily from the Silent Hill series as well as a book I had three-quarters finished, as well as some tidbits of Irish/Celtic folklore. I had a rough outline that gave me a beginning, middle, and end, I had certain planned out NPCs. Every single thing that happened was tied (directly or indirectly) to the main plot/threat. I had a player join three session in, and helped him craft a backstory that actually wove directly into my planned ending so that his goals wound up being integral to the conclusion. I had NPCs that came in acting like authority figures (high ranking Mages in the "North West Council") and one of them commandeered a room in their safe house... the players assumed this was going to be my way of keeping them inline, but in truth this character had his own mission and suddenly went missing and was corrupted by the Silent-Hill-like evil town down the road that had become hidden from mortal eyes. When they ran back into him, needing help with their own problems, they discovered he was completely mad and out of necessity killed him... and when using their magics to figure out what drove him mad, they opened a link to the evil (sort of a Great Old One being birthed in that now occluded town) that spilled over into their safe house. The threat was imminent, and out of desperation to stop the spiritual infection (and fear of what the North West Council would do when they found out the mage they had sent was killed by them) they used what they had learned up to that point to get to that town, to cross the barrier, and amidst fighting abominations and trying to keep each other from going mad, confronted the fetal god in its otherworldly womb that tore at sanity and reality. They either killed it, or sealed it away, they couldn't be sure, but as it's influence rapidly vanished and the altered realm they were in crumbled and imploded, they escaped. The final scene of them arriving home after a silent drive back, to find a being from the fey realms lounging on their porch, a call back to an scene in the second session. He spoke a few words, something that sounded friendly but cryptic, then vanished into a shadow. The End. The game was wrapped up, but I had some little hooks to pull on if we ever returned to it. Sadly, we didn't because those involved became busy with other things in their lives. But having a game that had run so smoothly and been so thoroughly enjoyed by my players after a previous attempt that failed so badly, I have ever since put a major emphasis on story, and even once made up my own little "how to" booklet for another friend to run a game that outlined the need for themes and narrative structure, and "acts" of one sort of another. I will say, though, while I very much enjoy _playing_ D&D, I don't enjoy running it as much as I do other systems that are more flexible and designed around narrative rather than combat. Prepping a D&D game is a lot more work than other systems where I often just need a simple outline, a setting, and a few key characters and can improvise everything else.
I don't get it. Do the cards come with a built-in self destruct like paper notes from James Bond? Is that why people can't play the game now that the company is no longer producing new cards? Because unless that's the case I'm pretty sure Netrunner isn't dead, you can still play it right?
There’s still fan expansions being made. You can still buy all the cards and expansions. Game has infinite replay value. It’s not dead. Go track it down and play.
I think the game is still worth playing! It's just that FFG is no longer printing new cards and no longer providing support for official organized play. Local game stores have little incentive to continue to host tournaments and other events in their stores, because most of them no longer have Netrunner product to sell, and the intensely competitive players (who quickly exhaust the deck building and playability options of available cards) no longer have a constant influx of new cards to keep things interesting for them. But there are lots of cards and lots of opportunities for players with even moderately-sized collections to build and play fun decks with friends and family.
There was a book I read about a drug you take which gives you painless death a week after you take it, allowing you to do anything you want free of consequences. Now THAT would make an interesting rpg.
It is at this moment, 31:07, that we realize how biased against Wizards of the Coast that Quinns is. He just assumes that Wizards is less progressive than Fantasy Flight Games. I don't think he's been playing Magic. There's a lot more diversity there than people notice. Also, D&D is one of the most progressive games in its genre. I don't think it's safe to assume that WotC would drop that ball.
The players of Netrunner killed Netrunner. The bar to entry became so high, and the people playing it became so insular that it was doomed to end. It was not new player friendly which turned a lot of people off of it.
It died because the license ran out and wasn't allowed to be renewed. The problem is most likely that the Netrunner playerbase made the game too profitable for WotC to just let FFG get all the money. So the Netrunner community did too much of a good job.
@@downsjmmyjones101 If you are a member of that community, I can see why you would say that. But there are plenty of potential new players who were turned off from the entire enterprise DUE to that same community.
@@mattlowder The high bar of entry is down to the game and not the community in my opinion. It's not an easy game to just pick up. Similarly, because people don't have endless duplicates of cards, it's harder (but not impossible) to build decks to introduce others to the game. I'd like to understand how extensive your experience with the game is, because if you're basing everything on the fact that you didn't get into it at your store, I'm not sure how that qualifies you to speak for the majority so much.
@@mattlowder The game is definitely difficult to learn, and the card pool was quite large (it was the first of FFG's card games to reach the point of rotation before being cancelled after all), but the community was the friendliest and most inclusive of any card game I've ever encountered. A lot of groups regularly meet in pubs and cafes specifically so as to not turn off people who find game stores unfriendly, and both the theme and the people were the most approachable you'll find. Your own experience does not sound typical, and I speak as someone who's introduced the game to a dozen people and talked to folks from metas all over the world.
watching this video as I head off to a pub netrunner night tommorow night.
Crazy how this game still seems to have a community behind it
I bought the core set on a hot summer weekend in 2015. My friend and I sat down in the garden to quickly acquaint ourselves with the rules. Next thing I knew, it was midnight and we'd played more games than I dared to count. By the end of the weekend we had quite a few matches under our belts and terrible sunburns all over, which we refer to as Netrunner burns to this day. As Steam reviewers like to say, "10/10, would get sunburned again".
I love this story so much:)
I introduced the game to a few people at my local game shop who saw me playing with a friend. I remember sitting down to play with someone I just met, sharing my own deck with him. He hit a whirlpool in my deck and freaked. I let him work out his own solution and I was so proud when he found a way out. When we finished the game he got out of his seat, grabbed a core set and paid for it. I felt awesome.
Nisei is keeping the game alive.
Chess did not receive any expansions for over a thousand years and still doing fine. Netrunner need not die, if fans want to keep it.
The way they describe Netrunner is pretty close to how my friends play Bridge. So many great stories, and even is the big tournaments stop, the game doesn't need new content!
If I go to a games shop I can buy a chess set. I have tried to buy Netrunner expansions and it's near enough impossible.
Chess doesn't have drafts
I wouldn’t say chess is doing fine. For most people chess is a game that we have played before, but not really anymore.
@@Tubalcain422 chess isn't limited by copyright and so can't truly die.
Just got back from a Magic event and wow do I miss the Netrunner community. Memories for years.
So in the end the corporation wins ?
Talk about irony.
Oh, no no.
Wrong! Nisei is a collection of runners bootlegging the Corp's assets. Runners win!
Netrunner is dead. Long live Netrunner!
This was the bittersweetest thing I've seen so far this year. Thanks for all the fun times T7!
Netrunner still lives when Jinteki still lives.
So I'm clearly no netrunner player, but you're gonna stop playing because your corporate overlords... told you to?
No, there's a player run org making cards
I doubt their "corporate overlords" give a shit about what they do, let alone told them too.
Sorry to have missed out on the Netrunner experience but so glad that such a thing happened and still exists.
Print n play. Its worth it.
Just want to say I watched this panel at SHUX and it was fantastic. If for some reason you clicked on this and still hadn't decided if it's worth the watch, it absolutely is.
You'd better be right
Less than seven minutes in to find out you were wrong
I want to see a documentary called "The life, Death, and Rebirth of Netrunner"
- How do you feel about NetRunner ending?
- Awww... shux!
Just wanted to say that this is the kind of content I really love about board gaming. The reviews, the unboxings, the news, it's all well and good. This is what I'm really looking for though. I love getting deeper into the conversation about gaming. How it makes us feel. The experiences. Talking about mechanics and strategies and how that intertwines with our gaming. This is definitely something I hope that SU&SD do more of.
I almost down voted just reading the title..it hurts...hurts so much
SUSD video appears, I immediately add to watchlist ready for the first moment I'm free. Can't wait!
I never should have doubted Quinns, but a very mature and interesting discussion on ending things that we love!
I'm so bummed missed out on this experience. Listening to your experiences with netrunner is great.
Look into Nisei!
It's back, this vid is outdated
I'm 15 minutes into this and it's a great discussion. I had some Rage cards sitting around for 15 years and I don't really know what happened to them...but I miss them.
I never got to play netrunner. And when I say never got to, i think Quinns mention of how 'going deep' on a game needs a 'perfect storm' is the perfect analogy. I tried getting into Street Fighter V when Quinns did (bounced off) and I bought into the 2nd edition of AGoT LCG, my local meta was a little too small and didn't excite me quite enough. I made that call because of the fact that I could be there from the start, and I was much more excited about Game of Thrones at the time, but Netrunner would've been a better idea because the games are shorter, the decks are smaller, the community is bigger, and the stories are just more exciting and evocative and diverse.
Despite the fact that a perfect storm is important, I think netrunner's design is brilliant and remains pretty unique in the market. I hope it comes back, maybe so it can finally get me at the right moment, or can get the moment for a whole bunch of other new people. Maybe it'll be designed by some kid who played this version of netrunner.
Or maybe the licence and Name of 'Netrunner' will never itself be important again, but it's design will have a legacy purely because it is such a notorious interesting game, with the power to create this kind of response to such a strange shocking quick ending.
Edit: I forgot to mention, I watched the whole video to the end, absolutely brilliant discussion even for someone who never played netrunner. so fascinating.
Just scrolled past this today while avoiding working on Netrunner. Which was a fun experience.
Netrunner is not getting supported from FFG, It's only dead if you choose to leave it. I leave you with this question was it FFG that made Netrunner the game it was or was it the people that surrounded it?
Pink warrior The real Netrunner were the friends we made along the way.
This is amazing! i love the thought process of making RPG's into a season that has an end that can be satisfying to leave there, but when the creative wind blows again, the next series can continue with another ending that is satisfying. Great episode! (sorry for spelling)
P.S. i still have my netrunner and i still love looking at it, just because it was a time in my gaming life i dont think will ever die.
Good times with good friends!
"play your character like he is driving a stolen car" niice
For anyone just getting into Netrunner do not be put off by the discussion in this SUSD video. If you have one or more friends that you will play this game with then you will absolutely have an amazing time. Don't expect to find cards in new packs out there but there is a lot on the second hand market or you can just proxy cards.
The fact the FFG doesn't make new content is sad for all those people wanting to play in tournaments and who felt a real sense of community in them. But as a game it is still so good and you don't have to rely on a wider community if you have friends who are into it.
Tidying With Marie Kondo is literally a show on Netflix now
I loved the dissonance between when this must have taped and when it came to youtube XD
I was so tempted to get into Netrunner when they announced the revamped core set but seeing what happened soon after, I'm glad I didn't as I would have been pretty gutted.
I know it's different but this is why I don't feel quite so bad about having so much for Arkham Horror LCG - the fact that if they stopped making it tomorrow, it wouldn't be dead. I know it wouldn't be to everyone's taste, but I would be more than happy to play and replay it all with different characters, with different deck builds, making different story and gameplay decisions. With it being co-op means I can play it with pretty much anyone interested or I can and do play it solo. If anyone else wanted to join me, they could jump in and use my collection, not worrying about getting their hands on cards for an out-of-print 'dead' game or not having a 'competitive' deck.
The Marie Kondo book mentioned in the podcast is indeed great, and there is a show on Netflix now. Highly recommended. RIP Netrunner - one of my favorite games ever by far.
The death of Netrunner was similar to the death of the Star Wars CCG back in the early 2000s. Just playing something with a group of people and the game being a part of your life and taking physical space in your house and thinking of strategies with cards and combos and then.....dropped. It actually stings.
Except that Star Wars CCG (a wonderful wonderful game, but I am biased) actually lives on even now, over a decade and a half later, as Decipher empowered the Players Committee at the end of the game. Check this recent article: www.theringer.com/2018/5/21/17374528/star-wars-customizable-card-game-player-community
same happened with the Starwars tcg from Wizards.
@@Nain1982 Yeah, I was still burned from the death of the CCG that I didn't go near the TCG. I got into the Star Wars RPGs pretty hard, at least when WotC cancelled the line you could still play with my friends cause RPGs don't need that same stream of new content that CCGs/LCGs do.
I got Netrunner over Christmas and I didn't know it had been discontinued until after I looked up expansions to get more cards. It's a real pity because whilst it's fun with the core set, I'd love to have more cards to play with. I'll definitely be continuing to play though.
Pretty much in the same boat
@@billjensen51 ah if you only got it this Christmas the game is in a much better place. It's been carried on with new cards available to buy direct from them.
I've not played netrunner or a lcg, so I'm not sure I understand.... can't you still play android netrunner even though it isn't being supported? Isn't it still fun? or does it need new content all the time? Genuinely curious, thanks!
You can still play netrunner, and it's still fun! It is difficult to get official product, but you can find ways to print proxies if you want, or you can play online for free on jinteki.net.
There is now a fan-run nonprofit organization called NISEI that is supporting netrunner, including coordinating tournaments, designing cards, curating a banlist, etc. They are limited by IP laws, of course, but similar efforts have been successful for other discontinued games.
Also, huge kudos for mentioning the life-changing magic of tidying up by Marie Kondo, one of the most important books ever written.
Would be really interesting with a part 2 today regarding NISEI, Asmodee/FFG and just card game death in general :)
Wait.. Did I miss something? Can we no longer play Netrunner? Must I burn my cards? If we play a game, will the Gaming Police kick in my door and black bag us? Netrunner may no longer be supported by FFG, but, I'm buggered if I'm going to stop playing it lol
Well, it's a "Living Card Game", right? So yeah, it can die if they stop putting out new cards. You can still play with the corpse, though!
@@mahna_mahna To paraphrase, its not dead as long as you play it. I remember when it died the first time, along with Vampire TES (Which may return soon it seems) and L5R (Which has returned..) I'm sure Netrunner will return. The license wasn't lost because it was a failure....
@@mahna_mahna it's an undead card game now.
@@Rafferty1968 Looks at his 6 TES decks. Oh god please let it come back.
NISEI.net are putting out new cards.
Anyone else still playing this game in 2021?
I felt the same way when Wizkids killed D&D Attack Wing. They had a bunch of upcoming expansions scheduled, were supporting and updating, and then they missed the report schedule, then expansions were pushed back for "reoganisation", then there was radio silence for almost a year. Any enquiries about the game were met with, "The game is fine, we will still suppoet it in the future, stuff is coming," and then a year later they discontinued it. I resented the way the player base was lead on the most. Telling us stuff was coming and delivering nothing. And just when the game balance was starting to rebalance and non dragon builds were getting good. It could have been a much better game, and they did a second edition of the Star Trek Attack Wing which readdressed problems, but D&D attack Wing was hung out to dry.
It's still alive
😐 th-cam.com/video/Ev24b_17-Po/w-d-xo.html
Good lord!!! I was just longing for their voices this morning!
I had a similar with Star Trek Attack Wing. There was a very active, if small, local tournament/organized play scene for a few years. At times I was playing in 5 tournaments a month, sometimes 2-3 a week. That was great. When it first started some stores had 15+ players at some games, but in the end it was the same 5-6 players every game. Which is disappointing. But I have made some good friends out of that tournament scene.
I played Netrunner for a long time, I'm glad I did, I'm not happy that it's gone but maybe it's better to burn out than to fade away. And we still have the dedicated community and our cards and there's an Android RPG by FFG coming out!
P.S. Arkham Horror LCG is legitimately amazing and I'm having even more fun with it than Netrunner but I guess I'm weird. :)
It's not ending is it? I thought there was a group taking over from ff?
TheSpiddles Yes. Nisei.net
Honestly heartbroken that I missed my chance to experience this game and the zeitgeist around it
It's back, this vid is outdated
Phone out while on a live panel... darn kids.
Kidding aside, great to hear from T7 one last time. They were one of the first ANR 'casts I got into, and enjoyed their entire run.
I had my notes on my phone! And I was making sure we weren't going hugely over and under time! ;)
Nels Anderson easy, tiger. 😅😅😅
Looking forward to what your company puts out!
Thank you so much for this video. Now quitting the new L5R while I'm ahead.
I bought the Netrunner core set back when the game first released and tired several times to absorb the rules but I just found some of the terminology really confusing to remember. I heard nothing but good things about the game over the years but just never managed to get over that initial rules hurdle. Eventually I sold it and got into other LCG models from FFG (specifically the 2nd edition of the Game of Thrones LCG which I really like). I'm sad to hear that it basically died (NISEI notwithstanding) as I doubt I'll ever play it now which is a shame as I love the theme and the idea of it.
getting really good at Street Fighter or fighting games in general takes awhile and it definitely helps to have a training partner to help each other improve and keep motivation up. If it's too much of a time investment, playing the genre casually isn't a crime.
I've played Netrunner from 2013 to 2015 and I can hardly call the Netrunner community "the best in the world". It had quite a lot of unique people playing it, most of them are nice, but there were some VERY famous exploits done by baaaad people :\
Has anyone ever tried starting an out-of-print LCG from the base set then allowing your group to have access to the expansions at the rate they were originally released? You could "restart" Netrunner within a much smaller eco system to sort of recreate the original release experience.
That Sunless Sea story is really neat.
You basically set up for suicide and then when your character doesn't die it's as if they gain a new look on life. They realize that they're stronger now so they can actually go on living.
Like when Vince and Jules survive the shooting at the beginning of Pulp Fiction and Jules decides to stop being a gangster.
Is the new coreset still worth picking up even though they won't expand on the game? I'm not a huge deck builder/card game player but my friends are and I was looking into netrunner but when i asked the guy at my local store he told me it was discontinued.
The revised core is a nice box in itself. There's plenty of game to be had from one copy.
There's a fanmade organization that took up the mantle to continue A:NR called NISEI and they're planning on printing their own future expansions as far as I know.
Revised core is so much better than even the original core was. In a strange way, if it was going to die I'm glad it did with a healthy set.
@@wesesheskhnemtuhit alright im gonna get it before they become super rare or something thanks
Cheers, have fun!
I massively regret not getting into Netrunner while I had the chance; it sounds amazing, and while I'll probably do the thing of playing through the game's history with some friends, I know that I'll never know what it was like to be a fan at the time, and that pains me. I'm puzzled as to why everyone just stopped playing it though. Was there a reason beyond the game not being published anymore? Did events also lose the right to be a thing, or was the meta not in a good place at the time of its death? Regardless, this was a great panel, and thank you for sharing it.
Well im starting now haha, just ordered the Nisei starter bundle. Im psyched to get into it with my wife
Came across this today. Quinns, have you continued to play with the Nisei content?
Quinns makes me want to check out Monsterhearts. Which is weird because I generally don't like PBtA games. Lady Blackbird is a game which is free that does seem to have a prescribed ending, though it doesn't explicitly state so.
I often play characters (even in D&D) and look for the "good death" and avoid the "bad death". I don't particularly like the idea of a campaign where you MUST die at the end because of the same reason I don't like a campaign where you're set to live on forever. Having it not be 'up in the air' is the problem. It sucks all the risk and therefore fun out of it.
Any game that you have played and liked is only dead if you let it die. So it is no longer being printed by FFG, find a way to have games. Create interesting formats, such as limiting which cycles you can use. or crazier still, only use either cards from the Core set (original or revised) and one cycle, eg: Lunar, and see how that plays out. This is coming from someone who loves the original Legend of the Five Rings, Doomtown and Netrunner. Still building "Old5R", Doomtown (and Doomtown Reloaded) and both Netrunner and Android: Netrunner decks. Find players either for face to face games (yeah, harder during the pandemic) or for online games. There is a way if you want there to be a way.
(edit: As I am watching this in January of 2022, I just had a data pack get delivered.)
I love Sunless Sea and I'm surprised to find another person that plays the game.
There are a few of us ! I travelled over from the Fallen London site, so it was a lovely extension of the world and its lore for me.
Spanish zeecaptain here...Zeecaptain of the "Alatriste" cruiser. Nice to find you guys here too! Such a small community and what a great game it is.
BTW I hope you play sunless skies now!
The Mungus I started with fallen London back in high school and loved the quirky lore and Victorian setting but I only know 3 other people who've played but hey, maybe there are dozens of us! Dozens!!
You guys are lucky you have played games as long as you have to just now experience this.. L5R, Vs., I have had many games I loved fade away. I played L5R for decades and have a tattoo for the game.
That Brian guy sounds like one swell dude!
Él es así así, TBH
I guess there has been a "slow rush" to buy all Netrunner expansions, as we've known about this for at least 6 months?
Fantastic video. However, might get more views if you had some Netrunner graphics along with the interviewees. I scanned over the thumbnail multiple times before realizing this was a SU&SD video, or a video about Netrunner feom the thumbnail. I didn't get any sleep today, and so I think I'm a good comparison point for most people scanning through their video feeds, recommendeds, etc.
Along with the Twilight Imperium video, thank you for going the Next Level to help us understand and appreciate board games.
@Shut Up & Sit Down - hey, if Brian is still looking for games in Barcelona, send him my way. We've got a ton of stuff going on. Also, Netrunner.
9:15 - you could easily turn that into a Zune symbol, if you enjoy cool things that died.
I wonder, is it better for Netrunner to end now, or would it get any better if it goes on with no end like MtG?
I'm two years late to the party but a lot of comments screeching about how you can still play it.
Sure you can. It also will cost me 300$ just for a base set -that is required to play the game- and I need two copies of, and will cost me an unbelievable amount to collect a set to just get one or two play sets of specific cards.
The game's dead.
no is not... nisei startup format. You can even PnP cards.
I bought a core set for £40 last week, it is possible! 😊 I never really knew about Netrunner til recently but I'm keen to play even if content is limited from FFG.
I'd be down for a Netrunner 2077 ;) The original ccg was set in that universe afterall. Not gonna happen anyway but since it was touched on briefly.
There is a real difference between the universes though. The world of Android Netrunner was built on optimism about the future and tried to look at how future tech would change the world. I really like that setting, it wouldn't be the same quite frankly.
You're right. Still, I could see enjoying a new classic Netrunner too!
I’ve never played or heard of it until now but after watching this I really want to. Any suggestions for getting into it? Or should I not bother?
Check out nisei.net :)
Yes. You need a friend willing to learn it with you though, so you'll both at least start at the same skill level. It's the best two player game I've ever played. Nothing like it.
22:43 was that a Tim and Eric reference?
No love for NISEI? :(
They mentioned it briefly.
Netrunner was a game I was always almost buying but then ended up getting something else instead. Now I lost tge opportunity. Don't know how I feel about it...
It is funny calling it dead when there's still cards being made, still a community.
yeah a bit premature
I was there for the death of the original Netrunner :( Still have all my cards too!
I've never played Netrunner but, could you say, make a Netrunner Cube?
Sadly I don't think so. It's asymmetrical and the building restrictions are too much.
vanhelsingfan1 Not at all the same thing in this game sadly.
technically you could since you can draft netrunner.
Yes. It can and has been done, and it's chaotic and fun!
Yes you can! stimhack.com/cube-drafting-101/
a game isn't dead till people are playing it
Megacorp ccg?
so why was Netrunner cancelled?
FFG's license for Netrunner ran out. Normally, WotC would let them renew it and FFG would continue on their merry card printing way.
That didn't happen. The license ran out and it wasn't renewed. Nothing has been explicitly stated on WHO stopped it from happening whether FFG didn't want to or WotC didn't allow it. The best clue as to whose fault it is would be to look at FFG's recent core set release. They revised their core set so it would be very strange for them to cancel their license. WotC most likely didn't allow FFG to renew it.
@@downsjmmyjones101 or it was too expensive to renew and the player base was never that big to recoup the costs wotc was asking for the renewal. Reminds me of WizKids and the Yu-Gi-Oh license, they did 3 really big sets in heroclix and a half-assed dicemaster set and dropped the license after that.
@@DelGray Then why did FFG release a revised core set if things weren't working out?
@@downsjmmyjones101 you ever play a dying card game? They usually put out some last hurrahs for the fan base that makes things easier for the legacy players. Bushiroad does this all the time when they sunset a game in order to either attempt one last revival or just give the people what they want while they are willing to make more prints.
@@downsjmmyjones101 do we know why?
I only played diablo in hardcore mode especially to have an end, even if stupid, it was relieving to die...
Immediately after watching this video I was like "i should go watch The Office". So I open up Netflix and there, the title banner, is Tidying Up. Apparently she got a show.
Is that the snozeberry guy from Super Troopers?
Yep
Can I ask a really stupid question?
Are Quinns and the guy in the middle related in anyway? They look a lot alike.
You would call in a bomb threat if a friend left the country? Paul left the country, then SUSD, and you did NOTHING!
I hope this comes across as the sarcasm it is meant to be.
I blame it on WOTC reclaiming all their IPs that is doing better than MTG
Wait... nisei.net Netrunner hasn't even flatlined yet
Rest in peace Netrunner!
I'm glad I got my weekly dose of hating on Magic: The Gathering from SU&SD, especially in a video about how another card game failed, when Magic's been going on for more than 25 years.
hi
Doesnt WOTC own the license? MAybe they have plans to bring it back...
That's the hope.
One of the rumours is tie in with cyberpunk 2077 since the original release of Netrunner in the 90s was linked to the cyberpunk setting. I've seen nothing to confirm it, but given the relative success of Gwent as digitial card game it would be a fairly sensible tie in for both WotC and CDProjekt.
@@gagrin1565 this is confirmed to not be true coming from the cdpr, at least at the time of the cancellation. If something comes up, it came up sometime after that point
@@mo0man I'm somewhat surprised, but I guess netrunner is a bit complex as a tie-in game.
Maybe I’m naive but why can’t you still play the game? They aren’t making you throw away your cards by law. I’m not trying to offend I’m just truly curious. You can still play the game so idk why everyone is acting like it’s been outlawed and you can’t play it together anymore.
Quinns bought into the release model of the LCGs he likes HARD. From everything I've heard him say, he seems to have bought every single Netrunner release and every single Arkham release in a timely manner and regards them as a lifestyle instead of just "a game you can play and like." There is NO reason you can't snuffle up some available Netrunner product or get into NISEI and enjoy the hell out of it. Knowing the meta by heart is not required. Having to own every single card is not required. I was just as baffled as you.
So, about tabletop RPGs and endings:
The first time I ever ran a D&D game it went on for about 10 sessions and then crashed and burned. I didn't know quite what I was doing, I was railroading my players while also not doing enough to focus on a consistent story because I wanted to run ALL the monsters so one session I just had them teleported into an arena by the big bad of the campaign simply so I had an excuse for using various monsters that didn't really fit otherwise. And then I had them pushing into an apocalyptic wasteland -- corrupted by foul magics, undead and aberrations, which was going to lead into fighting the big bad once they got through his 5-level dungeon that I'd spent three weeks drawing out and plotting. Except the players just stopped caring before they got to the dungeon because the game was just a mess. Up to that point, I hadn't considered the game from their point of view.
So, the next time I took the reins... was with World of Darkness (circa 2004/2005) with Mages. But this time I put the story first and foremost, stole heavily from the Silent Hill series as well as a book I had three-quarters finished, as well as some tidbits of Irish/Celtic folklore. I had a rough outline that gave me a beginning, middle, and end, I had certain planned out NPCs. Every single thing that happened was tied (directly or indirectly) to the main plot/threat. I had a player join three session in, and helped him craft a backstory that actually wove directly into my planned ending so that his goals wound up being integral to the conclusion. I had NPCs that came in acting like authority figures (high ranking Mages in the "North West Council") and one of them commandeered a room in their safe house... the players assumed this was going to be my way of keeping them inline, but in truth this character had his own mission and suddenly went missing and was corrupted by the Silent-Hill-like evil town down the road that had become hidden from mortal eyes. When they ran back into him, needing help with their own problems, they discovered he was completely mad and out of necessity killed him... and when using their magics to figure out what drove him mad, they opened a link to the evil (sort of a Great Old One being birthed in that now occluded town) that spilled over into their safe house. The threat was imminent, and out of desperation to stop the spiritual infection (and fear of what the North West Council would do when they found out the mage they had sent was killed by them) they used what they had learned up to that point to get to that town, to cross the barrier, and amidst fighting abominations and trying to keep each other from going mad, confronted the fetal god in its otherworldly womb that tore at sanity and reality. They either killed it, or sealed it away, they couldn't be sure, but as it's influence rapidly vanished and the altered realm they were in crumbled and imploded, they escaped. The final scene of them arriving home after a silent drive back, to find a being from the fey realms lounging on their porch, a call back to an scene in the second session. He spoke a few words, something that sounded friendly but cryptic, then vanished into a shadow. The End.
The game was wrapped up, but I had some little hooks to pull on if we ever returned to it. Sadly, we didn't because those involved became busy with other things in their lives.
But having a game that had run so smoothly and been so thoroughly enjoyed by my players after a previous attempt that failed so badly, I have ever since put a major emphasis on story, and even once made up my own little "how to" booklet for another friend to run a game that outlined the need for themes and narrative structure, and "acts" of one sort of another.
I will say, though, while I very much enjoy _playing_ D&D, I don't enjoy running it as much as I do other systems that are more flexible and designed around narrative rather than combat. Prepping a D&D game is a lot more work than other systems where I often just need a simple outline, a setting, and a few key characters and can improvise everything else.
there are other living card games. is there nothing comparable?
No.
I don't get it. Do the cards come with a built-in self destruct like paper notes from James Bond? Is that why people can't play the game now that the company is no longer producing new cards? Because unless that's the case I'm pretty sure Netrunner isn't dead, you can still play it right?
There’s still fan expansions being made. You can still buy all the cards and expansions. Game has infinite replay value. It’s not dead. Go track it down and play.
Tattoo story timestamp anyone?
I mean, can’t you still play with friends?
I don’t understand why no new cards means the game is dead and not worth playing.
Was the game only worth playing if you kept buying cards?
I think the game is still worth playing! It's just that FFG is no longer printing new cards and no longer providing support for official organized play. Local game stores have little incentive to continue to host tournaments and other events in their stores, because most of them no longer have Netrunner product to sell, and the intensely competitive players (who quickly exhaust the deck building and playability options of available cards) no longer have a constant influx of new cards to keep things interesting for them. But there are lots of cards and lots of opportunities for players with even moderately-sized collections to build and play fun decks with friends and family.
Clare Walker thank you for explaining. That makes sense.
So sad
I came here cause Eric Lang was in the thumb nail.......spoiler it’s not Eric Lang....
There was a book I read about a drug you take which gives you painless death a week after you take it, allowing you to do anything you want free of consequences. Now THAT would make an interesting rpg.
Take a drink every time someone says 'like'.
It is at this moment, 31:07, that we realize how biased against Wizards of the Coast that Quinns is. He just assumes that Wizards is less progressive than Fantasy Flight Games. I don't think he's been playing Magic. There's a lot more diversity there than people notice. Also, D&D is one of the most progressive games in its genre. I don't think it's safe to assume that WotC would drop that ball.
The players of Netrunner killed Netrunner. The bar to entry became so high, and the people playing it became so insular that it was doomed to end. It was not new player friendly which turned a lot of people off of it.
It died because the license ran out and wasn't allowed to be renewed.
The problem is most likely that the Netrunner playerbase made the game too profitable for WotC to just let FFG get all the money.
So the Netrunner community did too much of a good job.
@@downsjmmyjones101
If you are a member of that community, I can see why you would say that. But there are plenty of potential new players who were turned off from the entire enterprise DUE to that same community.
@@tomatodamashi Are you talking about the fact that the Netrunner community places a huge value on diversity and inclusivity?
@@mattlowder The high bar of entry is down to the game and not the community in my opinion. It's not an easy game to just pick up. Similarly, because people don't have endless duplicates of cards, it's harder (but not impossible) to build decks to introduce others to the game. I'd like to understand how extensive your experience with the game is, because if you're basing everything on the fact that you didn't get into it at your store, I'm not sure how that qualifies you to speak for the majority so much.
@@mattlowder The game is definitely difficult to learn, and the card pool was quite large (it was the first of FFG's card games to reach the point of rotation before being cancelled after all), but the community was the friendliest and most inclusive of any card game I've ever encountered. A lot of groups regularly meet in pubs and cafes specifically so as to not turn off people who find game stores unfriendly, and both the theme and the people were the most approachable you'll find. Your own experience does not sound typical, and I speak as someone who's introduced the game to a dozen people and talked to folks from metas all over the world.
Netrunner died the day a Banned List was released.
Really hope the RPG goes Nova or Supernova(longer shot, buuuuuuuut.......)
The ban list was the best thing for the game