Mine made noise and I bought a new oem TCT. The noise CAME BACK within a few thousand miles. I ordered a Billman TCT and have been trouble free for a few years, maybe 25k miles 👍👍
Re: Toda TCT...I contacted a vendor in Japan (Nengun) about USA AP2 motor compatibility. Here’s the response I got: “I just heard back from our sales rep, and they can not confirm fitment with the F22C1 as it was never sold here in Japan and they have never used one in the past.” I’m under the impression that the TCT is the same whether you have AP1 (F20C) or AP2 F22C1). But given the lack of validation from Toda, I’m going with InlinePro. Unfortunately Billman is just too complicated outside USA.
Another awesome DYI. I had mine done by Billman himself at the Tail of the Dragon. I had it proactively replaced as by the time one can hear symptoms, damage may be already done.
I also used the BIllman TCT after researching other options. Additionally (Since I had the time), I sent in MY OEM TCT to Billman (Had about 17k miles on it, with NO Issues, This was a PREVENTIVE Maintenance), he modified it, then sent it back to me, and I installed it.
I think after you look at all the different options it is clear that Billman has put the most thought and engineering into his TCT. His TCTs have had several revisions over the years and his TCTs are custom built to the specifications of the car.
I've been searching what was my answer from my K20 engine on my SI and this is it I recently just got my oil pan replaced because it was cracked and just a week later this noise just came out of nowhere I knew it was a TCT from the noise especially going over to the 2000 RPMs it will get louder and louder scared to drive the car but I had to make sure I searched and search and this is the video same noise even though this is a whole different Honda engine but it's the same noise at first I thought my piston is hitting hitting one of the valves but nope it's not I was correct thank you so much for this video even though it's not the same engine or anything but I had the same problem with my K20
Just did a Billman as a preventative. Your videos are great and the only one I found that actually explained how and why it makes the noise, which convinced me to just do it. Beyond easy, the mods Billman does substantially improves them and came looking better than new.
Thanks for actually putting a very good recording of what a failing TCT will sound like. In terms of buying from Billman, is it just as simple as a PM to him through S2KI? I tried to see if he had an online store I could buy it through.
You’re welcome! It seems like most recordings are done with a potato on TH-cam. Unfortunately Billman only does business through PM. It’s sort of an odd way of doing business and I don’t really enjoy it but I gotta support my man.
These videos are excellent. A 'specialist' told me recently that I need a new timing chain (I'm sure he'd like all that labour), he dismissed the notion that the S2000 has a weak tensioner and said that that only applies to modified cars. My question is how do you know whether you require a new tensioner or new chain? I've been quoted €1200+ for a fitted chain kit......
I live in America though and they wanted $1700 the slack doesn't look that bad and no noise I went to the mechanics to fix valve cover seal leak and MAF sensor when he told me about that I am not convinced I need a new chain.
@@reneeb5392 $1700? Eek... that's scary. I've ordered a Ballade tensioner from America, I'll see how I get on with that first. I'm pretty sure these shops are assuming a level of ignorance in their customers and betting we'll naively swallow all their advice.
@@brendawg8002 I certainly do think some mechanics scam customers for labor I spent $651 yesterday for those 2 repairs I kind of feel ripped off and when he told me about the chain slack and recommended a new timing chain and the estimated cost and labor I about cried. My car isn't making any noises in the chain at all.
@@reneeb5392 Woah... that's a lot of money for a leaky valve cover and a maf sensor....I plan on replacing the valve cover myself as I also have a leak, so gasket, spark plug tube seals, etc. If you've no noise when the engine is hot then I wouldn't worry about it, though you could replace the TCT as a precautionary measure.
My k24 is making the same noise I took it into a Honda dealership near me to ask what it could be and they pointed me towards a valve adjustment so I did it and the noise is still there
I use the Toda V2 TCT, it's about $230 shipped from RHDJapan and is a new TCT, not a used core exchange. Ballade Sports have been know to fail, like many other of their own products. Billman and Toda V2 TCT's would be my only choices. OEM, Ballade and Inline Pro are not worth it.
@@andersw1152 Not sure on the specifics, they are not listed. Stronger spring is probably one of the few changes. OEM shouldn't be considered, unless you want to send one to Billman and have it modified.
You are truly a clear and concise tutorial wizard when it comes to DIYs on the S. I emailed you about a week ago on doing a tutorial for installing a brake master cylinder and vacuum booster job. I hope in the very near future my request becomes a reality, despite that this is not a common failure on the S. Keep up the good work man!
I installed the Billman TCT replacement proactively on my ap1 a couple of years ago. It is an easy install, and it is working perfectly. This is one of the rare times when have broken the cardinal rule "If it ain't broke don't fix it." I'm convinced that OEM TCT failure is pretty much inevitable on this motor. I've never heard reports of failures of the Billman TCT. We shall see.
For the past few months ive routed my problem on my 2003 Matrix XRS to the timing chain tensioner but my mechanic thinks its the timing chain guides.. the thing is, this motor only has about 100,000k and I doubt the guides have worn out, especially when the timing chain tensioner is the most common issue on my 2ZZ-GE.. My engine is a used JDM swap and its safe to say there are parts that wear out especially from non-use of an engine sitting in a warehouse for years.. recently ive noticed the problem is much louder when the car is under load when cold.. but when it warms up its much better but present.. I will be changing my tct myself in a few weeks..
You awesome video love them! Please make more . straight forward all possible solutions and the possible problems and signs clear video quality sound . whatever time and money spent on this video was well worth it helped me alot thank you
Okay so I have a Celica, but timing chains all work the same, wouldn't this be on a cold start? I believe I've got a failing tensioner causing a rattle only on cold starts, I used to think it was maybe a heat shield but no, it would also do it on a warm start
I have an 04 Honda CRV with a very “tinny” heat shield rattle sound at low rpm’s. I do have a CEL for a timing related issue and believe the timing to be off. I have seemingly checked every possible thin tin like heat shield or similar component on the vehicle and can’t reproduce the sound. Could a slack timing chain cause this type of rattling noise?
Took my truck to get this fixed and the mechanic calls back after he replaced this and the timing chain saying that there is a knocking noise from the engine. Please help
Same here, it’s louder only when I reach 5k rpms, wondering if it’s a bad pulley or my tct, my car has 116k miles with the og tct, when I’m at idle or at low rpm my engine sounds very good. I also got a random misfire :/ freaking out
I went the DIY route and scuffed up the worm gear by rubbing the faces of the gear thread with a rough grinding stone. I didnt actually expect that method to work, but it actually worked great. The "fix" lasted for about 2 years, at which point I had to repeat the procedure. Maybe I went too conservative on the scuffing the first time. Regardless, 2nd time around, the whole process took maybe 15 minutes. Not a big deal.
Hey man, quick question I love your videos btw but do you know about the s2000 ticking noise inside the cabin usually underneath the dash? Usually appears right after a cold start once the revs drop to roughly 1000, it seems like it goes away when you rev it to aprox. 2k rpm but comes back once it’s settled again. Looked in s2ki but other people haven’t found what it was yet. I doubt it’s my tct, or piston slap. 07 s2k with 44000 odo
If the timing chain is stretched and my TCT is failing would it be a bad idea to replace both parts? Definitely the less labor intensive would be to simply replace my oem to a heavy duty TCT like Billman, but my worry is that if the chain is stretched it’ll just wear out because the chain is already stretched
It’s not a bad idea but it will be a considerable amount of money in parts and labor. Using a heavy duty TCT seems to be a pretty proven method that works long term with no ill effects.
Hello, I was wondering which TCT would you suggest if i can't get my hands on Billmans. I was between TODA and Ballade's one. Have you had any experience on any of the 2?
I’m not a fan of Ballade in general. Their TCTs are more error prone to install. Not sure how the Toda one works. Inline pro is another option I believe.
In my opinion you will hear the TCT long before it will cause any damage so not worth swapping it out prematurely. I’m still on my OEM TCT on my club racer with 160k miles.
Replacing the timing chain on the Honda S2000 is expensive and labor intensive. Like a 10 hour job on the books. Technically the timing chain is designed to last the lifetime of the engine.
The problem is not the tct , it’s the driver. You see every time you accidentally pop the clutch without rev matching , the timing chain gets yanked on . Do it enough , and the stock tct will no longer be able to compensate for the longer chain. Just think about it , you downshift from third to 2nd , pop the clutch and the rpm’s in a fraction of a second goes from 3 to 7k. What kind of pull on the chain was required to accomplish such a act . Now I think you can see the root of the problem . The clutch delay valve on newer S2000s help to fix this issue . A stronger tct helps with older models . If your chain has not been lengthen because you are good at shifting and there is no chain noise , don’t get the stronger tct because it will just result in more chain ware .
You’re the man! Thank you for this write up. Please continue for us s2000 owners!
You're welcome. Will do!
Mine made noise and I bought a new oem TCT. The noise CAME BACK within a few thousand miles. I ordered a Billman TCT and have been trouble free for a few years, maybe 25k miles 👍👍
Sounds about right. Glad you got it sorted.
Where can I order a billman
PM him on s2ki
Interesting.. explains why my car makes the nose after just 54k miles
Re: Toda TCT...I contacted a vendor in Japan (Nengun) about USA AP2 motor compatibility. Here’s the response I got: “I just heard back from our sales rep, and they can not confirm fitment with the F22C1 as it was never sold here in Japan and they have never used one in the past.” I’m under the impression that the TCT is the same whether you have AP1 (F20C) or AP2 F22C1). But given the lack of validation from Toda, I’m going with InlinePro. Unfortunately Billman is just too complicated outside USA.
Billman is GOAT, but I think Billman requires you to send in the core? If you guys are in dire need, get the Ballade! :)
JohnsonDaPanda only reason I went with ballade is bc of the core charge for billman. It’s a bit too much.
@@tdog2332 billman also offers a lifetime warranty. his are overengineered, ballades are known to fail
Another awesome DYI. I had mine done by Billman himself at the Tail of the Dragon. I had it proactively replaced as by the time one can hear symptoms, damage may be already done.
Billman ftw! Thank you DIY guy for all your informative vids. You helped me become a youtube mechanic
I also used the BIllman TCT after researching other options. Additionally (Since I had the time), I sent in MY OEM
TCT to Billman (Had about 17k miles on it, with NO Issues, This was a PREVENTIVE Maintenance), he modified it, then sent it back to me, and I installed it.
I think after you look at all the different options it is clear that Billman has put the most thought and engineering into his TCT. His TCTs have had several revisions over the years and his TCTs are custom built to the specifications of the car.
UK here and was unable to get a Billman so went for a Toda and have just also changed my timing chain itself
Thank you for your sharing, it is definitely helpful to distinguish where does the noise comes from and how does it sound like. Great job!!!
Great info, my buddies TCT just went, and motor is toast...
What happened to the motor?
Thank you so much for shining light on this issue!
Changing mine tomorrow!
Finally..🙏
I have found the answer for that noise
Thank you so much 👏👏👏👏
You’re welcome!
Outstanding video quality and narration
I've been searching what was my answer from my K20 engine on my SI and this is it I recently just got my oil pan replaced because it was cracked and just a week later this noise just came out of nowhere I knew it was a TCT from the noise especially going over to the 2000 RPMs it will get louder and louder scared to drive the car but I had to make sure I searched and search and this is the video same noise even though this is a whole different Honda engine but it's the same noise at first I thought my piston is hitting hitting one of the valves but nope it's not I was correct thank you so much for this video even though it's not the same engine or anything but I had the same problem with my K20
Just did a Billman as a preventative. Your videos are great and the only one I found that actually explained how and why it makes the noise, which convinced me to just do it. Beyond easy, the mods Billman does substantially improves them and came looking better than new.
Thanks for actually putting a very good recording of what a failing TCT will sound like.
In terms of buying from Billman, is it just as simple as a PM to him through S2KI? I tried to see if he had an online store I could buy it through.
The only way to get the Billman one is to PM him on S2KI.
Billman250 is his name on s2ki
You’re welcome! It seems like most recordings are done with a potato on TH-cam.
Unfortunately Billman only does business through PM. It’s sort of an odd way of doing business and I don’t really enjoy it but I gotta support my man.
Just to be clear, you just unscrew it from the side and replace? It's that easy?
Yes
This is really helpful, I just bought an S2000 and I'm getting a few disconcerting noises- I think I'll go for the Toda TCT, completely bulletproof!
These videos are excellent. A 'specialist' told me recently that I need a new timing chain (I'm sure he'd like all that labour), he dismissed the notion that the S2000 has a weak tensioner and said that that only applies to modified cars. My question is how do you know whether you require a new tensioner or new chain? I've been quoted €1200+ for a fitted chain kit......
Same here replying to see if u get any replies to this question.
I live in America though and they wanted $1700 the slack doesn't look that bad and no noise I went to the mechanics to fix valve cover seal leak and MAF sensor when he told me about that I am not convinced I need a new chain.
@@reneeb5392 $1700? Eek... that's scary. I've ordered a Ballade tensioner from America, I'll see how I get on with that first. I'm pretty sure these shops are assuming a level of ignorance in their customers and betting we'll naively swallow all their advice.
@@brendawg8002 I certainly do think some mechanics scam customers for labor I spent $651 yesterday for those 2 repairs I kind of feel ripped off and when he told me about the chain slack and recommended a new timing chain and the estimated cost and labor I about cried. My car isn't making any noises in the chain at all.
@@reneeb5392 Woah... that's a lot of money for a leaky valve cover and a maf sensor....I plan on replacing the valve cover myself as I also have a leak, so gasket, spark plug tube seals, etc. If you've no noise when the engine is hot then I wouldn't worry about it, though you could replace the TCT as a precautionary measure.
Nice. I changed mine when I visited Billman’s shop for 200k service. (No noise at that time).
My k24 is making the same noise I took it into a Honda dealership near me to ask what it could be and they pointed me towards a valve adjustment so I did it and the noise is still there
Maybe it’s the TCT. I don’t know much about K24s unfortunately
I use the Toda V2 TCT, it's about $230 shipped from RHDJapan and is a new TCT, not a used core exchange. Ballade Sports have been know to fail, like many other of their own products. Billman and Toda V2 TCT's would be my only choices. OEM, Ballade and Inline Pro are not worth it.
Did you compare Toda with OEM? Interested if you could spot any differences.
@@andersw1152 Toda V2 is a stronger built TCT.
@@mugen2002 stronger spring?
@@andersw1152 Not sure on the specifics, they are not listed. Stronger spring is probably one of the few changes. OEM shouldn't be considered, unless you want to send one to Billman and have it modified.
Thanks for noting that. I had completely overlooked the Toda TCT in my research.
I got billman tct too and it took less than 5 mins to install lol. Well worth the mod for the piece of mind
Billman FTW
Can I do this myself without a garage?
Yes absolutely.
You are truly a clear and concise tutorial wizard when it comes to DIYs on the S. I emailed you about a week ago on doing a tutorial for installing a brake master cylinder and vacuum booster job. I hope in the very near future my request becomes a reality, despite that this is not a common failure on the S. Keep up the good work man!
TH-cam just recommended this video right as I finally installed a new oem tct 😔, hopefully it holds up
I installed the Billman TCT replacement proactively on my ap1 a couple of years ago. It is an easy install, and it is working perfectly. This is one of the rare times when have broken the cardinal rule "If it ain't broke don't fix it." I'm convinced that OEM TCT failure is pretty much inevitable on this motor. I've never heard reports of failures of the Billman TCT. We shall see.
We're can I buy a Billman tct.?...my tct was from ballade sports and lasted me 75k...
I believe you have to DM him on s2ki
Holy FUCK that is the same exact sound and it’s at the point of 2:12 I’m the video… talked with billman and paid just waiting for it to be shipped
For the past few months ive routed my problem on my 2003 Matrix XRS to the timing chain tensioner but my mechanic thinks its the timing chain guides.. the thing is, this motor only has about 100,000k and I doubt the guides have worn out, especially when the timing chain tensioner is the most common issue on my 2ZZ-GE.. My engine is a used JDM swap and its safe to say there are parts that wear out especially from non-use of an engine sitting in a warehouse for years.. recently ive noticed the problem is much louder when the car is under load when cold.. but when it warms up its much better but present.. I will be changing my tct myself in a few weeks..
I have the same issue in my Z6
Another great vid. Thank you
Thanks for the tips
You awesome video love them! Please make more . straight forward all possible solutions and the possible problems and signs clear video quality sound . whatever time and money spent on this video was well worth it helped me alot thank you
Will do!
Great video
Thanks!
Okay so I have a Celica, but timing chains all work the same, wouldn't this be on a cold start? I believe I've got a failing tensioner causing a rattle only on cold starts, I used to think it was maybe a heat shield but no, it would also do it on a warm start
I wonder if that’s a VVTC, variable valve timing controller, since it happens only on cold weather starts and makes a similar sound?
@@jonboz7585 wasn't that, engine blew up in that shitbox anyways
i get a rattling noise when starting the car and changing from park to R or D after it starts running it goes away
So could I change the tct on my ap1 40k mi without the tct being actually bad yet to prevent damages?
You could. Some people never have issues though. Seems to be dependent on what motor oil was used.
I have an 04 Honda CRV with a very “tinny” heat shield rattle sound at low rpm’s. I do have a CEL for a timing related issue and believe the timing to be off. I have seemingly checked every possible thin tin like heat shield or similar component on the vehicle and can’t reproduce the sound. Could a slack timing chain cause this type of rattling noise?
Killer video!
I have the same problem noise ,in my Corolla 2001 ,I hope ,this will be the problem...thank you very much
Can this also be rpm specific? Because I'm noticing a similar noise around 2300 rpm?
Took my truck to get this fixed and the mechanic calls back after he replaced this and the timing chain saying that there is a knocking noise from the engine. Please help
noise sounds worse with the top down. But ima keep replacing whatever my s2k needs forever!
My noise is wayy louder and gets louder when I accelerate :(
Pop your valve cover and see if it’s timing chain tensioner wear!
Same here, it’s louder only when I reach 5k rpms, wondering if it’s a bad pulley or my tct, my car has 116k miles with the og tct, when I’m at idle or at low rpm my engine sounds very good. I also got a random misfire :/ freaking out
Nice Honda 👌
I went the DIY route and scuffed up the worm gear by rubbing the faces of the gear thread with a rough grinding stone. I didnt actually expect that method to work, but it actually worked great. The "fix" lasted for about 2 years, at which point I had to repeat the procedure. Maybe I went too conservative on the scuffing the first time. Regardless, 2nd time around, the whole process took maybe 15 minutes. Not a big deal.
2012 Honda CRV and have the same issue except no performance aftermarket part.
I ordered a duralast one and put the spring in my oem housing and its been good for 30k miles now
That is super interesting. Did your original TCT fail? I wonder if the duralast one uses a stiffer spring.
@@DIYGuysvideo yeah it failed, I used the oem screw thing too....didn't even sand it.
Thanks for that! Great info once again!
If one of these chains fail... valves will bend?
You will get some piston to valve action :)
Hey man, quick question I love your videos btw but do you know about the s2000 ticking noise inside the cabin usually underneath the dash? Usually appears right after a cold start once the revs drop to roughly 1000, it seems like it goes away when you rev it to aprox. 2k rpm but comes back once it’s settled again. Looked in s2ki but other people haven’t found what it was yet. I doubt it’s my tct, or piston slap. 07 s2k with 44000 odo
I actually have the same problem right now and I haven't been able to figure it out. Almost like a clunk that happens occasionally at idle.
I dont know if we're talking about the same ticking but I the chrome piece around the start button will make noise for me sometimes
yeah man I appreciate it
Money, as usual, Jason! 🙌
Random question, should the chain guide on the tensioner side move left to right...along with moving forward and backwards with the chain?
The guide should move right to left. It will
Basically pivot from the bottom. It should not move up and down.
Anyone tried the BLOX Racing aftermarket TCT yet? (BXPT-10510)
If the timing chain is stretched and my TCT is failing would it be a bad idea to replace both parts? Definitely the less labor intensive would be to simply replace my oem to a heavy duty TCT like Billman, but my worry is that if the chain is stretched it’ll just wear out because the chain is already stretched
It’s not a bad idea but it will be a considerable amount of money in parts and labor. Using a heavy duty TCT seems to be a pretty proven method that works long term with no ill effects.
great video man, thanks
Does this sound like a timing chain tensioner?
th-cam.com/video/cmu9kp3N11A/w-d-xo.html
Hello, I was wondering which TCT would you suggest if i can't get my hands on Billmans. I was between TODA and Ballade's one. Have you had any experience on any of the 2?
I’m not a fan of Ballade in general. Their TCTs are more error prone to install. Not sure how the Toda one works. Inline pro is another option I believe.
@@DIYGuysvideo I think TODA is similar to install to the Ballade one. Unfortunately Billman doesn't ship outside US so kinda stuck on this one
would this issue be the same solution (part) as on the k24 2013 crv engine?
Don’t know. I think they use a different TCT design though.
Should this be changed even when there are no symptoms
In my opinion you will hear the TCT long before it will cause any damage so not worth swapping it out prematurely. I’m still on my OEM TCT on my club racer with 160k miles.
My car wont rev past 3000 rpm but has no engine light
Thank you!
Was only able to get a balladesports for 300 dolla worth it i guess
It should do the job.
@@DIYGuysvideo no more annoying tick! Ty
Do AP2 get this problem too?
Yes. It can happen to all years.
glad you went with the Billman one over the ballade sports pos
Too bad there's no way to get the Billman one outside the US :(
He ships worldwide sooo
@@toddxhiggins In his reply to my PM he said he doesn't. I guess he doesn't like me in particular then :/
Err if the chain has streached is it not a good idea to change the chain ? Your just masking the problem
Replacing the timing chain on the Honda S2000 is expensive and labor intensive. Like a 10 hour job on the books. Technically the timing chain is designed to last the lifetime of the engine.
@@DIYGuysvideo how long since you've changed the tensioner ? Miles etc
On this car only 10k miles but I’ve had a Billman TCT on other S2000s for much longer. Billman provides a lifetime guarantee
@@DIYGuysvideo nice and you don't have to worry about it ?
That’s right
You left out Toda 😉
Yeah... I guess so. Good point
Also, uncommonly, my 07 s2k has 145k miles on the clock; original tct. I guess I should be prepared for it any minute now...
154K on my CR and original TCT too 🤷♂️
is that massive burned oil in the back of the car? o_O
Oh yeah LOL. its terrible
The problem is not the tct , it’s the driver. You see every time you accidentally pop the clutch without rev matching , the timing chain gets yanked on . Do it enough , and the stock tct will no longer be able to compensate for the longer chain. Just think about it , you downshift from third to 2nd , pop the clutch and the rpm’s in a fraction of a second goes from 3 to 7k. What kind of pull on the chain was required to accomplish such a act . Now I think you can see the root of the problem . The clutch delay valve on newer S2000s help to fix this issue . A stronger tct helps with older models . If your chain has not been lengthen because you are good at shifting and there is no chain noise , don’t get the stronger tct because it will just result in more chain ware .
if you're good at shifting why would the stronger one cause more chain wear?