"Hmmm. The black Ichor... that laid... in the Nexus... Oblivion. Definitely a prize... worthy of liches... or Wizards." A cough echoes. "Maybe... the blood should be... purged." The small figure cracks her neck. "The frozen hell, now have... an audience." With the light of burning brimstone, the sharp blue outline reveals the makeshift torch on the hip of the lady. A femur tied with the wet linen and sinew. She sighs. "Welp, time to... clean up the mess. The arena needs... to be reset." A portal opens. The being raises the torch. It ignites with a blue, spiritual flame...
@@richfisher7000 "Thanks," The blonde figure echoes. The blue flame spilts and devour the blood. Her laboured breath of smoke mimic the scorching of the ichor. The Outrealmer's blue eyes bear witness to the removal of the of essences of the blessed and fallen alike.
Now we need the pinnacle of each, an aspect of Asmodeus Vs. an aspect of Zaphkiel. They’ll need conversion, both have their 3e stats in the Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Deeds.
i love the story but, I feel like the Solar shouldn't be fighting a Pit Fiend. They are more matched with the Planetar. Solars should face Arch-devils or Demonlords, because of numbers. There are supposed to be only 24 Solars, that means each of them is a unique being, whereas with Pit Fiends, there are thousands if not tens of thousands and quite possibly hundreds of thousands. Let's not forget that, every drop of blood spilled from Asmodeus spawns a Pit Fiend, and he's been wounded for a long time.
In retrospect you are right... I had to amp up the pit fiend just to get him even remotely into parity with Venator... Lets just say perhaps we have not seen the last of Venator... Levistus will be looking for some payback!
Been playing since 1st edition and stopped at the disaster that was 4th edition. In the first 3 editions, there is no way any pit fiend would ever go toe to toe with a Solar. Solar were literally Gods who chose to serve rather than rule. Solar powers and abilities were so far beyond a pit fiends powers that it would be about as fair as sending a US Nuclear powered aircraft carrier (Solar) vs a 90 year old man in a leaky wooden boat armed with a newspaper (pit fiend). Solar could take down Infernal Arch Dukes and Abyssal Princes with light to moderate difficulty. Gary Gygax himself had several small examples of the power of a Solar angel in his Gord the Rogue book series. An obscenely powerful dual class Cleric/magic-user named Gravestone screamed in terror and fled desperately from the Solar, who was summoned through a dimensional tunnel. Gravestone was the most powerful agent of the Death God Nerull on the prime material plane. Gravestone had personally bound not one but two Abyssal princes to his will and service. Gravestone talked to Nerull almost as an equal...He almost talked down to Nerull if I remember correctly....and this titan of terror took one look...one LOOK at the Solar and he fled screaming in terror before the Solar even finished materializing.... If 5th edition has watered down the Solar so much that a mere pit fiend was considered a challenge...let alone a possible threat to the Solar....5th edition is as bad as the debacle that was 4th edition. After writing this I watched the video and I must say, the graphics and story were well done and very entertaining.
Was thinking the same thing; in the first two editions there were no "unique" good outsiders, and solars seemed to be designed to be the equal of archdevils and the top tier of demon lords, while planetars were equivalent to dukes of hell and lesser demon lords. But with 3e introducing the Celestial Hebdomad, those unique archons took the place of solars and, over time, pushed everyone below them down a notch. But back in the day, they had a massive pile of spell-like abilities, resistances and immunities, and in addition, their swords were dancing AND vorpal, and the arrows were automatic insta-kills. Considering the Gord books were based upon AD&D, that response is definitely fitting. And let's not forget that in FR canon, you've got the fallen solar Malkizid who at one point in the past served as one of the Lords of the Nine.
I always agreed. Tbf though most demonic and diabolic lords are plot devices more than stated npc’s (like everyone else, I love op stat blocks) and I’m not a big fan of the idea that mortals can kill any of them. I’ve simply always viewed Solars the same way, essentially unique demigods that serve the gods directly. I’d liken them the Christian Seraphim in that they really can’t even manifest fully in the material realm, and them even attempting to simply tears the material realm asunder.
@user-ri1sx9rm7f In AD&D, Solars were totally equivalent to archdevils and demon lords, but back then the concept of divinity was sort of murky (compare the Solar's statblock to Hercules' in Deities & Demigods and the Solar is WAY more powerful). They've gotten nerfed with each successive edition, with the Celestial Hebdomad and Court of Stars taking that "we brawl with big baddies" role. As for godliness, that sort of depends upon the definitions of divinity being used. Mephistopheles has mortal worshippers after all, but is not technically a god. Lolth is both Demon Lord and Goddess, yet as a demon lord is less powerful than Demogorgon, Orcus, or Graz'zt (who in FR canon has kidnapped an actual goddess for LOLs).
you say it dosen't matter, so what about if the dragon was blue or bronze? to cancel out the giants lightning abilities (yes, i know that then they would shoot themselves in the foot with their own breath not being effective)
@@michaelwaring9883 No. The Angel out ranges completely and is immune to exhaustion. Even if every roll goes the pit fiends way it becomes a stalemate.
I'm curious how the battle sim found the pit Fiend victorious in any situation. Literally out fly the fiends speed and use bow. I know you said "tactics are less involved" but a difference of 90'/rd is immense.
You're not wrong. But keep in mind the fiend was empowered. I also tried to represent some parity in the taunting from the fiend and the angels "vengeance" as a reason to engage. Some might find it interesting that after I finished the video, I ran the sim for 2 more sets (100 each) without the increased fiend stats, and the totals came back 172 to 28... So the fiend being powered up a bit helped... still, it was all Solar... other than using a named or homebrewed devil... it was the best option i had.
One thing I can think of is, it's an arena so there are limits to how far they can go meaning there is a possibility... just say for argument sake, the Solar had a moment of panic or low perception of his surrounding and found himself cornered where his speed didn't matter cause he had nowhere to go... I could see that, but it's a Solar, that likely wouldn't happen. Solar should have had a 100% win rate unless the simulation actually did have it so the Solar decided to avenge his fallen brother with an old school beat down... unlikely but... it is a simulation
A pit fiend would 'throw the match' knowing a demon or daemon or even aberration would be swatted instead due to it. It would do every....thing......to cause that.
*Let's peer into a crystal ball & see a possible future D&D Death Match. Feel free to use this Riches and Liches. (Ring Announcer using Thaumaturgy) ~ "In the chromatic corner, stepping out from his magnificent mansion with his faithful hound at his side, this CR 12 wizard won't just settle for making this witch hideously laugh. He'll make her cry. Standing 5'-11" weighing at 178 lbs, behold the Lord of Greyhawk himself... MORDENKAINEN!!! Now, in the metallic corner. From the far reaches of the Feywild & the Domain of Delight, beware whatever caustic brew this CR 20 witch conjures. Her form unknown but all known her as... TASHA!!! *Mordenkainen vs Tasha.
This is irrelevant, because the Pit Fiend only dies permanently if it dies within the 9 hells, whereas Archons die permanently if they're killed anywhere Besides Mount Celestia. (Debatable if that rule applies to the Solar, as angels & Archons are technically different things, but either way the Pit Fiend is only at risk of true death if the fight happens in hell, whereas the Solar probably IS)
@@agentchaos9332 The devil would not permanently die true. However being demoted for failure, would very likely result. Almost as bad for a high ranking devil, no?
@@youngimperialistmkii there would undoubtedly be some form of punishment, though I imagine losing a 1v1 Duel with a Solar would be..somewhat expected, by the infernal hierarchy, as losing to a being of equivalent power is less humiliating then being taken out by a group of insignificant mortals, for example.
Maybe you could put part 3 being a battle between an avatar of Levistus against an equally powerful celestial, like an Empyrean or even a Lawful Good God of Mount Celestia!
The majority of gods on Mt. Celestia would delete Levistus' true body, let alone his avatar with minimal effort...unless you specifically made it a sword Duel with no magic allowed, maybe
One thing I would be fascinated to learn more about is the process that a powerful archdevil might undergo to become good. What might become of them? What would they be after aligning lawful good?
Excellent video. Very fun and interesting. I think if you could do a full party of adventurers against some epic level enemies that would be cool. I think that would be very interesting.
The next good vs. evil could be a different Solar vs. a Klurichir. That would be interesting. Or a Baernaloth, those guys are just evil for no reason other than to be evil.
Still waiting for Round 3! 🛎️ (You clearly put a lot of work into setting up the conditions for these, as well as your writing. It'd be a shame if you just stopped making them ;-)
Yes, but when you’re talking about high CR monsters it’s probably accounting for either super cold that immunity doesn’t work on, or else a hellfire version of cold, so half cold half divine/profane/necrotic or something.
It is a fair question and one I have my own answer to, its too long to post here but if you watch the nine hells series you have an answer to at least consider. :) Thanks for the comment!
I don't give a d*** about Simulations period All I ever hear about is the Angels win in the Demons lose all the time no matter what. This simply would not be in reality I'm sorry. Show me something real. I want to see one of these videos where the demon actually does win
"Hmmm. The black Ichor... that laid... in the Nexus... Oblivion. Definitely a prize... worthy of liches... or Wizards." A cough echoes. "Maybe... the blood should be... purged." The small figure cracks her neck. "The frozen hell, now have... an audience." With the light of burning brimstone, the sharp blue outline reveals the makeshift torch on the hip of the lady. A femur tied with the wet linen and sinew. She sighs. "Welp, time to... clean up the mess. The arena needs... to be reset."
A portal opens. The being raises the torch. It ignites with a blue, spiritual flame...
Lol I love that!
@@richfisher7000
"Thanks," The blonde figure echoes. The blue flame spilts and devour the blood. Her laboured breath of smoke mimic the scorching of the ichor. The Outrealmer's blue eyes bear witness to the removal of the of essences of the blessed and fallen alike.
Riches and Liches,
I want see the strongest chromatic dragon, verses the strongest metallic dragon. This is Dungeons and Dragons after all.
Dude that was dope. Great job
Thanks for the kind words... and checking it out! Really appreciate you taking time!
Now we need the pinnacle of each, an aspect of Asmodeus Vs. an aspect of Zaphkiel. They’ll need conversion, both have their 3e stats in the Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Deeds.
I'd argue that a fairer fight would be Asmodeus vs Jazirian.
i love the story but, I feel like the Solar shouldn't be fighting a Pit Fiend. They are more matched with the Planetar. Solars should face Arch-devils or Demonlords, because of numbers. There are supposed to be only 24 Solars, that means each of them is a unique being, whereas with Pit Fiends, there are thousands if not tens of thousands and quite possibly hundreds of thousands. Let's not forget that, every drop of blood spilled from Asmodeus spawns a Pit Fiend, and he's been wounded for a long time.
In retrospect you are right... I had to amp up the pit fiend just to get him even remotely into parity with Venator...
Lets just say perhaps we have not seen the last of Venator... Levistus will be looking for some payback!
@@RichesandLiches sounds great!
Been playing since 1st edition and stopped at the disaster that was 4th edition. In the first 3 editions, there is no way any pit fiend would ever go toe to toe with a Solar. Solar were literally Gods who chose to serve rather than rule. Solar powers and abilities were so far beyond a pit fiends powers that it would be about as fair as sending a US Nuclear powered aircraft carrier (Solar) vs a 90 year old man in a leaky wooden boat armed with a newspaper (pit fiend).
Solar could take down Infernal Arch Dukes and Abyssal Princes with light to moderate difficulty.
Gary Gygax himself had several small examples of the power of a Solar angel in his Gord the Rogue book series. An obscenely powerful dual class Cleric/magic-user named Gravestone screamed in terror and fled desperately from the Solar, who was summoned through a dimensional tunnel. Gravestone was the most powerful agent of the Death God Nerull on the prime material plane. Gravestone had personally bound not one but two Abyssal princes to his will and service. Gravestone talked to Nerull almost as an equal...He almost talked down to Nerull if I remember correctly....and this titan of terror took one look...one LOOK at the Solar and he fled screaming in terror before the Solar even finished materializing....
If 5th edition has watered down the Solar so much that a mere pit fiend was considered a challenge...let alone a possible threat to the Solar....5th edition is as bad as the debacle that was 4th edition.
After writing this I watched the video and I must say, the graphics and story were well done and very entertaining.
Word.
Same for 2E!
well if it's any consolation, you can write Solars as being as powerful as they should be in your own campaign.
Was thinking the same thing; in the first two editions there were no "unique" good outsiders, and solars seemed to be designed to be the equal of archdevils and the top tier of demon lords, while planetars were equivalent to dukes of hell and lesser demon lords. But with 3e introducing the Celestial Hebdomad, those unique archons took the place of solars and, over time, pushed everyone below them down a notch. But back in the day, they had a massive pile of spell-like abilities, resistances and immunities, and in addition, their swords were dancing AND vorpal, and the arrows were automatic insta-kills. Considering the Gord books were based upon AD&D, that response is definitely fitting. And let's not forget that in FR canon, you've got the fallen solar Malkizid who at one point in the past served as one of the Lords of the Nine.
I always agreed. Tbf though most demonic and diabolic lords are plot devices more than stated npc’s (like everyone else, I love op stat blocks) and I’m not a big fan of the idea that mortals can kill any of them. I’ve simply always viewed Solars the same way, essentially unique demigods that serve the gods directly. I’d liken them the Christian Seraphim in that they really can’t even manifest fully in the material realm, and them even attempting to simply tears the material realm asunder.
@user-ri1sx9rm7f In AD&D, Solars were totally equivalent to archdevils and demon lords, but back then the concept of divinity was sort of murky (compare the Solar's statblock to Hercules' in Deities & Demigods and the Solar is WAY more powerful). They've gotten nerfed with each successive edition, with the Celestial Hebdomad and Court of Stars taking that "we brawl with big baddies" role. As for godliness, that sort of depends upon the definitions of divinity being used. Mephistopheles has mortal worshippers after all, but is not technically a god. Lolth is both Demon Lord and Goddess, yet as a demon lord is less powerful than Demogorgon, Orcus, or Graz'zt (who in FR canon has kidnapped an actual goddess for LOLs).
""The Soul needs Light in order to have Power"". ""Chains of Darkness, reserved for judgement "
"This isnt scientific" *then proceeds to do 100 battle simulations* 😂
Well... I guess you sorta of got me there. :)
I would love to see an adult dragon (doesn’t matter which kind) against a storm giant
you say it dosen't matter, so what about if the dragon was blue or bronze? to cancel out the giants lightning abilities (yes, i know that then they would shoot themselves in the foot with their own breath not being effective)
@@Acranify looking back, I meant for the strongest dragon to fight the strongest giant
I'm loving these man you have a way with your storytelling I'd love to see more of these!
A Solar should literally never lose. Gets to 600 foot distance and continues to shoot the Pit Fiend.
That would make the Solar a coward if he only flew away and shot his bow.
@@neogod29 So? Would you risk dying just to be brave? Being smart is what will win the war, not dying because of utter stupidity.
Courage is a virtue, so the Angel would care about being cowardly.
Well I'm sorry to say in reality the solar would lose from time to time and yes the pit fiend would win from time to time like it or not
@@michaelwaring9883 No. The Angel out ranges completely and is immune to exhaustion. Even if every roll goes the pit fiends way it becomes a stalemate.
A solar should definitely be above any pit fiend not a lord
Another great video. Can't wait for the next!
Please do more of these death matches! They are very entertaining to listen to.
Elminster VS Vecna.
Jotting this one down... great suggestion!
The mage battle would be epically glorious in every meaning of the words.
Now that's a question I wonder if anyone's asked Ed Greenwood.
Just got recommended this video, Im loving the concept! Gotta add my vote for a Devil vs Demon fight!
Gold dragon vs Red dragon!
Silver vs. red would probably be more interesting 🤔
I'm curious how the battle sim found the pit Fiend victorious in any situation.
Literally out fly the fiends speed and use bow. I know you said "tactics are less involved" but a difference of 90'/rd is immense.
You're not wrong.
But keep in mind the fiend was empowered.
I also tried to represent some parity in the taunting from the fiend and the angels "vengeance" as a reason to engage.
Some might find it interesting that after I finished the video, I ran the sim for 2 more sets (100 each) without the increased fiend stats, and the totals came back 172 to 28...
So the fiend being powered up a bit helped... still, it was all Solar... other than using a named or homebrewed devil... it was the best option i had.
One thing I can think of is, it's an arena so there are limits to how far they can go meaning there is a possibility... just say for argument sake, the Solar had a moment of panic or low perception of his surrounding and found himself cornered where his speed didn't matter cause he had nowhere to go... I could see that, but it's a Solar, that likely wouldn't happen. Solar should have had a 100% win rate unless the simulation actually did have it so the Solar decided to avenge his fallen brother with an old school beat down... unlikely but... it is a simulation
What about Mordekainen vs. Elminster. Or Karsus vs. Vecna.
Yeah, I love a fiend but the Solar takes this.
I love this video concept
A pit fiend would 'throw the match' knowing a demon or daemon or even aberration would be swatted instead due to it. It would do every....thing......to cause that.
Great video!
*Let's peer into a crystal ball & see a possible future D&D Death Match. Feel free to use this Riches and Liches.
(Ring Announcer using Thaumaturgy) ~ "In the chromatic corner, stepping out from his magnificent mansion with his faithful hound at his side, this CR 12 wizard won't just settle for making this witch hideously laugh. He'll make her cry. Standing 5'-11" weighing at 178 lbs, behold the Lord of Greyhawk himself... MORDENKAINEN!!! Now, in the metallic corner. From the far reaches of the Feywild & the Domain of Delight, beware whatever caustic brew this CR 20 witch conjures. Her form unknown but all known her as... TASHA!!!
*Mordenkainen vs Tasha.
The Angel would be willing to die, order to defeat the devil. The devil, would not. The Pit Fiend would always have a plan to survive.
This is irrelevant, because the Pit Fiend only dies permanently if it dies within the 9 hells, whereas Archons die permanently if they're killed anywhere Besides Mount Celestia. (Debatable if that rule applies to the Solar, as angels & Archons are technically different things, but either way the Pit Fiend is only at risk of true death if the fight happens in hell, whereas the Solar probably IS)
@@agentchaos9332 The devil would not permanently die true. However being demoted for failure, would very likely result. Almost as bad for a high ranking devil, no?
@@youngimperialistmkii there would undoubtedly be some form of punishment, though I imagine losing a 1v1 Duel with a Solar would be..somewhat expected, by the infernal hierarchy, as losing to a being of equivalent power is less humiliating then being taken out by a group of insignificant mortals, for example.
Lich vs. Beholder!
this would be cool if you were actually rolling dice. get a DM and 2 players to fight it out.
How about a Planatar vs a Nabasu?
This is so badass!
Thank you for the kind words! What matchup would you like to see next?
Maybe you could put part 3 being a battle between an avatar of Levistus against an equally powerful celestial, like an Empyrean or even a Lawful Good God of Mount Celestia!
The majority of gods on Mt. Celestia would delete Levistus' true body, let alone his avatar with minimal effort...unless you specifically made it a sword Duel with no magic allowed, maybe
A demon in the next fight could be cool. Klurichir are pretty scary. Be cool to see one of them fight pretty much anything.
That would be fun... gives me a chance to convert some of the awesome 3.5 demons. If memory serves they are like 25' tall....
@@RichesandLiches Dungeon Dad already did it homie.
Fun Videos sir! hope you do more of this sort of video over time!
I love you made the solar so RIPPED
Yo!! Hella excited!!!
Death Knight vs. Avenger (Oath of Vengeance)
I would love a match between gods
Please continue this series
Red v Gold Dragon btw.
Pit Fiends need some ability to pull an enemy in and keep them immobile, without that, they can really only throw fireballs around.
Not quite good vs evil, but have Demogorgon vs Asmodeus.
Given that the blood war video is in production, the timing of this comment is excellent and top of mind... great idea!
When tank said "little guys" he meant inoue...
One thing I would be fascinated to learn more about is the process that a powerful archdevil might undergo to become good. What might become of them? What would they be after aligning lawful good?
Lich vs baelnorn, and/or archlich vs ancient dragon. Also shadow dragon (adult or ancient, your choice) vs celestial of your choice. Great series!
Excellent video. Very fun and interesting. I think if you could do a full party of adventurers against some epic level enemies that would be cool. I think that would be very interesting.
Cool idea! Thanks for the feedback!
Hellfire wyrm vs a celestial equivalent perhaps
Where is part 3? Maybe crank it up to Torm as a lesser diety vs Livistus or Tyr a greater Diety vs Asmodeus
Gadriel had it coming after what he did to Sam Winchester!
Can you do death battle balor vs Pit fiend? Evil 😈 vs evil 👿. A demon vs devil.
You could round the series out with Levistus vs Tyr or Ilmater! Deity Duel!
I want to see who can bench more, these outsiders definitely lift.
what about Psionics???
LICH do Lich soon!
Dream Match: ArchDruid vs. ArchLich
Would love to see a dragon vs dragon series. Blue vs Silver. Gold vs Red. Etc.
Love it
The next good vs. evil could be a different Solar vs. a Klurichir. That would be interesting. Or a Baernaloth, those guys are just evil for no reason other than to be evil.
Pit Fiend all the way… If I could I would obliterate the world!
Still waiting for Round 3! 🛎️
(You clearly put a lot of work into setting up the conditions for these, as well as your writing. It'd be a shame if you just stopped making them ;-)
Platinum dragon V dracolich?
Is this AI art? I love the dreamy feel it gives these videos
GOOD!
Awesome Solars are so under used in the game for a cr 21 monster
They are so underpowered, a solar should never lose to a pit fiend even face to face
This is badass lol
Thank you!
Now tell me how we settle the good v evil score for round 3 :)
Red vs Silver Dragon
Late to the party, but id suggest one of the archdevils to challenge a worthy celestial opponent.
I'm happy the solar won but sad there's no followup
I'm new but an old man
Celestials are immune to cold and electricity, yes?
Yes, but when you’re talking about high CR monsters it’s probably accounting for either super cold that immunity doesn’t work on, or else a hellfire version of cold, so half cold half divine/profane/necrotic or something.
Zariel vs Demogorgon.
how can devils or demons ever prevail when in-fighting is encouraged by their gods and archdukes and archdemons. smh. lol
It is a fair question and one I have my own answer to, its too long to post here but if you watch the nine hells series you have an answer to at least consider. :)
Thanks for the comment!
@@RichesandLiches I've been watching. Great series. Great content.
bahamut vs tiamat
Gold vs red dragons
Pit Fiend.
It's meta-persornal u77:07i:158@ll 🙈🐙 🤘😈🤟
Evil always wins because if it does not then the freedom linked to good, in most cases, is false and thus said good is an illusion.
Cringe
Lame😩
unless of course, freedom is not inherently good in of itself.
Such Edge
First
I don't give a d*** about Simulations period All I ever hear about is the Angels win in the Demons lose all the time no matter what. This simply would not be in reality I'm sorry. Show me something real. I want to see one of these videos where the demon actually does win
Here you go!
th-cam.com/video/aQzRkIYLHTU/w-d-xo.html