To be precise, though, that slotted screwdriver is wrong for that particular screw (too small). A properly sized slotted screwdriver should be as wide as the head (or nearly so), and thick enough that it provides a tight fit in the slot.
Right for this demo he should have had the right size slotted screw driver, but then again when you are in a hurry or can not find the right size, which is most of the time, his demo was more realistic.
yes when these things were first put in practice a flat head screwdriver would have looked more like a cold chisel than what most of us have today to tighten up chair/table legs
@@jkbrown5496 There seems to be somewhat of a standard now with slotted screws - there's like 3 sizes that are useful - the large ones for screws like this in large electrical work, a mid size one that's kindof a jack of all trades, master of none type size, and a smaller one that's common on terminal blocks and small electronics. If you look at Klein screwdrivers, which are somewhat targeted at electrical work, there are 3 common sizes, and they're very similar to the sizes you find in other brand screwdriver sets as well.
As a Canadian in my sixties, I’ve been using Robertsons all my my life. It never occurred to me that someone would use anything else for electrical screws. Also, for wood screws, I can put a screw on the tip of the screwdriver and carry it to the target hole with just one hand sideways without it falling off. Robertson screws were invented by a furniture maker.
The Robertson #1 (green) and #2 (red) are part of every Canadian tool box, and it left me wondering what in this video what would be wrong with this? - it did not even occur to me that people would try to use a Philips!
@@BlaineZuk Here in the states Robertsons are primarily used in pocket screws. That's about it. a lot of people don't even know the robertson exists outside of that
I use the #1 Robertson the same way as described in the video, #2 Robertson for the ground screws in the outlet boxes and #3 Robertson for the Electrical Panel box screws (Square D panel). I don't recommend it, but a drill driver at slow speed helps as well.
Outside of electrical work, if you do manage to strip the screw head, you can drill 1/8 in the stripped head, tap in a #2 red robertson and pull the screw out, regardless of original shape (but you need practice as it doesnt always work and can take a toll on the driver. I keep older worn out driver for this reason). The robertson is the way to go for almost all screws when the option is available
@@HickLif3 The Kreg branded pocket hole screws use a square drive bit. The square drive bit was a cheap knock off of the patented Robertson bit design. Robertson Inc is still in Milton, Ont. I have boxes of both Kreg & Robertson branded screws in #8 in about 8 different lengths.
As an electrician, I've been using the ECX screwdriver for years now. It's also great for EMT fittings. I rarely use a slotted screwdriver for anything other than a pry bar or doorstop.
@@tabooretka as an electrician myself, I do occasionally use slotted screwdrivers. The offset ‘wiggly’ works best for cover plates imo. Larger slotted sizes come in handy when working on older equipment/loadcenters, and occasionally new breakers that use slotted terminal screws
As a handy Canadian I just sort of took it for granted that everyone used a #1 Robbie for that. Robertson is my tip of choice for most things and I only use Philips or slotted when I have no choice. For someone who did that job all the time though I can certainly see how buying that hybrid tip screwdriver would be worthwhile.
As an American, I just started seeing Robertson head only screws just in the last 5-7 years or so, but I just realized that most screws probably have been compatible with the Robertson this entire time. But, F**K the person that puts tamper resistance torx in the packaging of kids toys. Not the toy itself mind you, the screws that hold it to the shipping spacers.
@@mjc0961 talking 2005 actually, and most people today still dont know what a "torx" is or why they need it to use the toy they just bought. I just came across a "rex" bit today, never heard of it before walking through the clearance aisle at the hardware store.
In the Electrical field here in Canada. It has been the norm to use the Robertson Drivers. They are common to purchase and are not expensive, good quality brands are readily available and they don't slip out. The Green Colored number one Robertson Driver is probably the most commonly used driver after the Red colored number two. That's the color of the handles so you can immediately tell the difference. A zero which is very small, is yellow and a number three, that is a black handle, it's for bigger screws.
The electrical outlets I bought didn't even support Phillips. It made things so much easier than I thought replacing outlets would be, the torque is satisfying. I don't know anything about screwdriver sizes and the green thing worked perfectly.
@@leerman22 That's right. I didn't even know that they made ones that accept Phillips screw drivers as well. The ones that I use only take a Roberson and a slot screwdriver.
@@my3dviews And indeed, the screwheads in this video do NOT have a Phillips opening at all - they are a combo of Robertson and straight slot and NOTHING else.
I'm an Electrician from Canada we here always use the #1 Robertson screwdriver. Most of our screws are Robertson here way easier to use they don't fall off your screwdriver, when lights etc come with Phillips screw we usually just throw them away and use Robertson screws instead.
For the average home DIYer, that doesn't want to invest in another "specialty" tool that may see very minimal use, I'll go with the Robertson as I already have several of those loose bits and didn't really know what they were used for but now I do!
@@kenbrown2808 I see no advantage to the ECX over a Robertson - it's just a gimmick to sell custom screwdrivers to yanks - in Canada, everyone has always used Robertson drivers exclusively for electrical work. I do enjoy how now in the US "square drive" wood screws are like a high end specialty item, and in Canada nearly all wood screws and self tapping metal screws are Robertson.
In Canada we use three Robertson size bits which work for every situation, and when we order something that comes with flathead or Phillips type screws, we generally toss those screws into a jar and replace them with Robertson screws. This makes the job better and easier for us and the next guy who comes along and has to do some work on that piece of equipment.
I've been a home improvement carpenter for a long time, and this is the first I've heard of these screw drivers. I will be adding them to my tool collection soon. Great info. Thanks.
I have at least 6 of these sit around that have never been used. Philips gets the job done perfectly every time. Why fill a slot on my bag/belt for a single use tool
@@txfreerider Home Depot in Canda sells mostly Robertson exclusively. I can't recall seeing any Phillips screw s on their shelves. My tool pouch is all Robertson drivers. I rarely have to use Phillips and when I do it's usually accompanied by some 4 letter words has they're so hard to deal with.
Fun fact 1: the tendency of a screwdriver to slip out from the screw head while applying torque is call "cam out" Fun fact 2: People who mention Robertson screws most likely Canadians because they're quite popular in Canada. These screws were invented by Canadian inventor P.L. Robertson and patented in 1909. The Ford Model T used around 700 of these screws but Ford later shifted to using Phillips screws when Robertson refused to grant an exclusive license to Ford for the use of these square drive screws.
54 years old and have always thought about how to improve outlet screws, but no need now you found the tools! Ordering these now thanks! Update: Just checked your Amazon link, the Milwaukee driver is unavailable so I got Milwaukee 48-32-4440 Insert bit Ecx 1/4"Hex, 2 Pack. Thanks again!
Since I live in Canada, Robertson screws are very commonly used. The great thing about them is that you can hold the screw on the end of your screwdriver if you want to start the screw more easily. I hardly ever use Philips screws and never slot screws anymore.
When I get things that come with screws, they are usually Philips head (and soft metal, at that) so they go directly into the scrap metal bin and are substituted with Robersons.
Hopefully Phillips and slotted screws will be extinct soon. Torx is coming on along pretty well in the US, they are readily available everywhere. They're around, but Robertson is still not too common here.
@@mayorb3366 we gotta have something that cams out reasonably easy for mounting gypsum wallboard. Perhaps if mfgrs of wallboard guns introduced some mechanism that withdraws the cam-out-free bit at a certain point, but why? Philips still seems like it should be the go-to for drywall screws to me. darn near everything else? Robertson or Torx, please.
I have stripped so many screws with the same thought process. The tips you provided have made me feel more confident in tackling these kind of projects.
Been using Phillips for 30+ years, I can assure you I can apply enough torque to break the screws clean off. As an electrician I want to carry as little as possible, don’t get me wrong Robertson is great just don’t need all the time, I like them in panels.
But we have to be honest, today, screws are not what used to be 30 years ago. Today screws start to slide at very little torque. Yes, I know on higher torque turn should be slower but again, quality changed. Multi-bit screwdriver is a must today. PS. Regarding this pool, depends where voters are from. In Europe, I doubt anyone used 3rd or 4th option. I am from EU, and I dont use 3rd or 4th option, this is first time I saw it.
@@orion310591RS EU here , installed few breakers recently used Philips driver, but i have a breaker that i need to install so i just had to check in disbelief , and that little shit uses square driver screw. My brain just exploded...it looked weird when i was installing it but it would never occur to me I'm supposed to use square driver for it 😅
@@terrabiker The trick is, that material from USA or standard from USA arrived to EU. And it (almost) can be done in old fashined way with old (improper for new standard) tools. To be honest we are talking about fine details, and just a little bit more (hand produced) torque which may not be needed for stationary wires, but again, this video is useful for informing people about slightly different tools/standards.
As a Canadian, I have used #1,2,3 Robertson for decades. Pretty much everything from Framing, Deck building, Fence building to Electrical. It also never occurred to me to use a Philips or Slot, they will just slip. I just don't like the multibit drivers with Robertson, the dedicated Robertson screwdrivers I find last longer. I think everything should be Robertson or Torx.
If you can find a modern screw made for a modern P bit, a modern ISO-standard P bit will work perfectly. But those screws are rarely used in applications where so much torque is needed that cam-out would be a problem. "Jeweler's" drivers are P type.
It’s unfortunate that Henry Ford is still keeping USA from using the better screw. Robertson is in so many ways superior and easier to use over Philips....should have died over 100 years ago.
The Roberston (square) is a simply superior screw. It is great for electrical work but what I like best is that when driving screws you can put the screw on the bit first and it will stay there. Also, the screwdriver bit will not cam out as easily as a Phillips or slotted. If you buy a box of Roberstons you will never go back to Phillips.
@@CautiousCrow Robertson is less probe to rounding. I find Torx tend to wear down faster given the many fine machined points of contact. If you use the right size Robertson you will never cam out
@@jamese9283 True, but Robertson has one quality the others don't have: you can easily renew the screwdriver tip. Robertsons are slightly tapered so if the driver wears grind a bit off the end and now it fits good as new.
@@jeffreyesguitar5129 , if you're using non-magnetic stainless steel deck screws and similar, magnetic bit holders and socketed screwdrivers don't work any better! But yes, Robertson screws in general are terrific, and I prefer them over Torx. Note that Makita makes a handy dandy little hollow, bullet-shaped magnet that slides over the shaft of your screwdriver or 1/4" hex drive bit and adds extra magnetic grip. These work really well for holding screws of all types. I've never used a Robertson screwdriver on electrical outlet screws, but a #1 does seem a little small for the job. I wish it was a #2.
In all my tool bags, my desk draw, my range bag, and my main camera case, I carry Klein 11-in-1 screwdrivers. Full time, I do datacom, and often have need to use conduit, and much prefer when there is a square head on them, though I mostly use the dust-free conduit fittings because the client that I do the most conduit for requires them. Recently, I was replacing some outlets in my house, and love the squares, works so well. When doing carpentry type work, I much prefer the star head screws. For the finish screws I use for some stuff, they are a square drive and work very well. IMHO, all types have their place, well, except for flat heads, lets get rid of flat heads.
Electricians adopted the Robertson early when they were doing knob and tube wiring it would allow one handed operation of the screw driver while holding the wire and insulator together.
I use the Milwaukee 1000V insulated ECX screwdriver. It comes in a set of 3, the other 2 drivers are slotted and Phillips. I love my ECX, it turns tighter, and the driver never slips off the screw
I do a lot of handyman/maintenance work. I started using the Milwaukee ECX a few years ago. It is hands down the best tool for working with switches and outlets. No more slipping and worrying if your phillips is going to slip and not get the screw tight enough. The ECX grabs and very seldom slips. Always a tight connection when you are finished.
As most others, I hadn't heard of the combo ECX driver before. This should be a "Game Changer" when installing outlets/switches. Just like jeffostrof, I went to Home Depot and got the insulated #1 ECX, a straight blade, and phillips set for $20.97. I had expected to pay $20 just for the uninsulated #1 ECX. A great deal!! THanks for the video.
Been around electrical since the early 80's. Worked with electricians many many times since then and this is the FIRST time I've ever seen this. Have seen ET's use a Phillips and then follow up with the straight, but this tip seems like the proper way to go. Strange, I've had them in my tool box for 30 years and never used them....
One GREAT benefit of the multi-drivers is that you can put a #1 square drive on one side of the sleeve and a small straight blade bit on the other side. Allows you to quickly flip from installing outlet and switch wiring then flip the sleeve and install the plates.
Yep... for years that was me. I could never figure why the phillips never quite fit right. Then someone turned me on to the Milwaukee insulated ECX screwdriver and it has been my go to electrical fastener ever since.
In Canada, Roberson screws are the most common and least expensive fastener type. I've worked as an electrician and, to me, that Milwaukee hybrid would end up being a pain in the ass to constantly have to line up while the Robertson is quick, easy and delivers more than enough torque with mininal effort. I'll stick with Robertson.
The ECX bit is wonderful for terminals you need a good bite on to tighten. I keep a couple in the tool bag for such. I have found that a 1/4 flat driver works for 99.9% of devices I work on though. Cover plates all the way to panel lugs. The less tools hanging on my belt the happier I am.
I think every type of screw everywhere should be a TORX head screw so you can us TORX screw drivers. They give far far stronger and better grip than any other type I have ever used.
That’s funny just had a fellow worker tell me the button head torx was a half size metric Allen 🤪. I was hoping he was kidding but he fought it until the drill bits came out……I gave him a torx25……
thats wild. as an electronics technician I think I will stick with the philips and then tighten with a flat head unless I come accross a robinson bit in one of my sets for personal use. will keep that in mind tho when picking new tools in the future.
30 years ago a standard receptacle did not have the type of screw shown in this video so neither the special combination tip or the square drive would have been useful. At that time only a standard flat blade screwdriver would be used.
Because noone cares enough to use these tools today and they didn't use those screws back in the day. Just another example of people inventing solutions to problems that don't exist.
I inherited a bunch of tools from my dad who was an industrial electrician for decades. I came across a number of "weird" Phillips looking screw drivers. It never occurred to me to try them on electrical switches/outlets. But that Milwaukee "ECX" screw driver just answered a decade old questions of "what the heck did he have these for". Thanks!
I inherited some of my Grandpa's Fathers 1920s tools. Hand drills, measuring devices, hammers, all still work/look just fine. Like little treasures but probably not worth all that much any where else
Industrial electrician here, when I started in 1990 my employer made me buy a Reid and Prince screwdriver, looks like a Phillips, never used it...ever.
@@blur911 Reid and Prince fasteners have that extra little groove. Reid and Prince screwdrivers have corresponding pawls to fit in there. In over 50 years working with tools, I have never needed one. One would have to wonder why your employer insisted on you having one! I hope it didn't cost much.
@@badbiker666 The guy making the tool list hadn't worked in the field in years, nor in Canada, I also have a set of huge fuse pullers I've never used. I remember neither of them being cheap.
I never knew these existed. As a DIY'er, I have run into these problems MANY times with Philips screwdrivers and have wondered what the right type was for YEARS. I just ordered a Milwaukee ECX #1 along with a set of #1 and #2 driver bits. Thank you!!
I was an electrician, many years ago, and I never heard about the Robertson driver fitting those screw heads. Wish I had known. Thanks for the info, it will still come in handy for future projects.
Older devices did not accept the Robertson screwdriver. I am not sure when the manufacturers redesigned their products to accept it. I have a #1 Robertson in my bag (purchased in Canada) and I use it on any switch or receptacle because I found that other screwdrivers could slip.
All the world really needs is love…….. and a set of Robbies! Green and red are the most popular sizes, but it’s best to have a black and a yellow too. You just sleep better knowing that you are prepared. 😎🇨🇦
I have recently gone with the multi-bit that has ECX, Robertson, Phillips, Flat, and several sizes of nut driver. It has become my go-to because of the versatility. I have large hands, so I have no problem holding the larger handle.
How did it feel to have everyone in Canada yelling at your video for the first 3 minutes? Always has been Robertson's for me as a DIYer . Pretty sure most Canadians have the same experience.
Yup, but you need both a "red handle" and "green handle" to properly do NEMA outlets. The green can work in the terminal screws, but often strips out. The Red is the one to use, and it can apply a large amount of torque, enough to overtighten if one goes too far. The Green handle is used for the box attachment screws.
Another great video Scott. Once one uses the ECX, its hard to go back. I might mention that for typical duplex/switch replacement, and cover replacements, I usually find myself reaching for my ‘old’ GB 1000 volt insulated screwdriver with multi tips. It works well enough on the wiring, and the smaller slotted bit is perfect for the plate screws. Peace ✌🏻
3:00 I work in maintenance and have had some of these square bits and NEVER knew what they were for until now. I've never seen any of my coworkers use them so I just figured they were for a special type of screw. This is awesome!
You'll use the square bits in a lot of construction screws, torx bits are found in construction screws often as well. Oh! And your pocket hole screws are almost all square bit for ease of install.
Thanks for showing this. I live in Canada and I have always used a robertson screwdriver for these. As a matter of fact the robertson screw was invented in Canada. I notice the United States seems to use mostly the philips head screws and not much of the robertson. I didn't know the ECX Milwaukee screwdriver even existed. I will have to check that out.
I've been using the Phillips with a slotted to do the final tightening, and I'm glad to see that you suggested that as a good solution without buying new tools. I was surprised just how much more tightening I can do with the slotted screwdriver after it feels tight with the Phillips. My slotted that I use for outlets is a bit wider (more distance from one end of the slot to the other), so it works great for not slipping. It's also extra short, which gives me better control. Having tools that you like really helps.
@@davepaturno4290 as a mechanic with 19 years of experience, you just made me cringe from reminders of new mechanics sheering off 3/8" and 13mm bolts with the 1/2" impact or cracking sockets because they didn't grab the ones designed for said impact... 🤦♀️
@@kraziecatclady Well, I have over 30 years as a mfg engineer and have a degree in mechanical engineering, so I can assure you that I am well aware of metallurgy, tools, and torque. Sadly, I'm not a mechanic but I have worked on a few cars over the years.😏
Great idea- but I’ve been using a Phillips for decades and never had any issue. Seems like a solution in search of a problem. But I’ll still probably switch because it’s a better tool for the job and it’s cheap. Good video. 👍
I once built a ground level patio deck for some friends just across the border in Vermont. When I started to assemble the deck , using Coated Deck screws from Canadian Tire, they were amazed that these even existed! They had never seen a Robertson screw, never mind a Robertson Screwdriver.! After they saw how much easier it was to load and torque into the wood, I had more than a few of them get me to “smuggle” in the Canuck contraband. 👍🇨🇦
Down here, we call them "Allen Wrenches" (or at least the little metal tools to turn screws with square holes). We also have drill bits that fit those, too. You frequently also see them (albeit it larger sizes) on office chairs, if you buy one that you gotta assemble at home. The only difference is that they don't have the slot for a flathead screwdriver, it's just a square hole with an octagon head for a ratchet socket.
I'm retired from a fence company where, along with building fences, I installed and trouble shot gate operators and entry control systems. I let the screw head tell me what kind of driver to use. Most were square. Some were phillips/slotted in which case I used the phillips. Slotted drivers are good for prying parts apart.😁
I've always used Philips, but I've always had a flat-head, if I needed it. I knew about Robertson in general, but I didn't know they were commonly used for outlets -- I need to look at those screw heads more closely! The ECX looks nice, and I'll see if I can find some bits for that for use in my multi-driver. Thanks!
Robertson fasteners are much more common in Canada than they are in the USA. Robertson, the inventor and original manufacturer, was Canadian and set up his operation there. Due to industrial politics, most U.S. manufacturers adopted Phillips screws instead of Robertsons (the Robertson design actually predated Phillips, star drives (such as Torx), and virtually all the others except the slot-headed screws).
@@censusgary -- I've known about the history of Robertson drive for years, but what I was not aware of is that they are commonly used on light switches. Maybe I haven't looked at enough light switches in the last few years....
@@shubinternet In Canada, you ALWAYS see robertsons on "commodity" electrical devices (outlets, switches, most breakers, panels). Been that way for at least 2 decades, if not 4.
@@fromagefrizzbizz9377 -- whereas I live in the US (well, Texas) and this is a new thing for me to see on the outlets down here. Much appreciated! Thanks!
@@shubinternet took you long enough, Robertson’s were invented in 1908! 🤪 As my dad (a professional civil engineer) used to say, Phillips screws should be outlawed and selling flat drive screws should be a capitol crime punishable by death 🤪 In Canada the only “commodity” Phillips screws you see are drywall screws. Phillips and flat are more often seen in specialty stuff, some smaller bolts and brass. Allen heads have always been around. Torx is making big inroads now, especially in wood screws, and after driving 10’s of thousands of Robertsons, my new bulk purchases are always torx, and I’m not alone in that.
I have an electrician friend who said he would quit the trade if he had to work in the US with Philips...there is absolutely no better tip for wiring than Robertson (not withstanding the very specialized tip used here)...we Canadians love Robertson but it baffles us as to why the US hasn't adopted them.
we yanks do use a fair percentage of square drive, but it has its own weaknesses. it will actually strip screw heads more effectively than anything else, and somehow I've had robertson screws strip out and still had to use pliers to get the bit loose from the stripped screw. phillips cams out easier than robertson, but it usually doesn't strip as badly so it can be backed out and replaced. torx grips amazingly well, but stainless screws will fall off the tip, and every size screw uses a different size driver.
As a canadian that's now in the US, Robertson (well technically "square" drive) shows up here more now as a "specialty screw" - I have a feeling the patent on Robertson must've expired, so now there's no licensing requirement. I use robertson screws on purpose hoping someone after me will run into them and go "WTF?? Security screws?? why the...." :)
THANKS FOR YOUR VIDEO. PLEASE include this on your next one. (I'm going to get myself a Milwaukee #1-ECX tool)That's Kewl! What most people don't realize, the multi-bit, (or I call them "flip-over screwdrivers"), have 2 different sized deep pocket nut-drivers (for doing stud type terminal boards). A different size on each end, and you can pull the driver tube out all the way and the handle has a slotted drive hole in it, that is a perfect tool for tightening wing type wire nuts...!
As a Canadian for the longest time I didn't reolize the square drive (robirtson) was not used much down south but I think it's ideal because it doesn't cam out like phillips does. But there is also the Japanese phillips that solves that problem as well. Called JIS #1 (Japanese industrial standard) which people who work on Honda or yamaha equipment will know about or Pz #1 which is pozidriv which is phillips but solves camout problem as well. Small difference in design but huge difference in performance especially on those stuck screws
It seems you and the JIS folks may not understand that the Phillips is supposed to cam out as a means of preventing over-tightening of the fastener by design. If you want the fastener to be tighter you are supposed to use a different design meant to achieve that; there's plenty to choose from. I'm an American, but I agree with you that for most applications Robertson is better, yet it has it's own design weaknesses too. The reason it never got popular outside of Canada is greed- Robertson wanted more $$$ to license it's use by manufacturers in the US than Phillips wanted for his system, so factories took the cheaper option since it was adequate. Once things got established it tended to stay that way because everybody then had those particular tools. A Canadian by the name of Witold Rybczynski wrote a book called "One Good Turn" explaining the history of the screw and the reason for the many types we have, it's really good reading and I highly recommend it.
@@P_RO_ I'm aware it was designed that way on purpose. We were talking about this specific application where you need more torque i felt these were valid options for our specific application. I mean no you shouldn't just start over tightening all the screws in your engine bay or something.
A hint for those unfamiliar: the JIS Phillips variant usually has a small divot or dot in the screwhead to signify that it is a JIS standard screw head. You can't normally buy those special screwdrivers in a local hardware store and the primary manufacturer is Vessel, however, the Milwaukee impact rated Philips drive bits fit them quite well, much better than Dewalt or Makita bits (and there is one particular dewalt Phillips drive bit that has a pointier tip and thinner vanes than most, and doesn't seem to fit any screw I've tried it on,). Japanese built stereo equipment usually has JIS screws.
@@codylucente A Phillips is the wrong tool for this specific application and if you try to do anything with the wrong tool you often end up with an avoidable failure. If you can't or won't do a job correctly then you shouldn't be doing it. The difference between an amateur and a pro isn't so much in doing a job the right way because both can do that, but in understanding why it needs to be done that way which only the pro does. Knowing why is worth a lot more than only knowing how.
The ECX has been fantastic and definitely my go to for circuit breakers especially. You won't go back after using one, especially if you fully understand that the amount of torque applied determines the current the circuit can safely carry and keeping those connections cool under heavy loads. Extremely Important and often ignored!
Right. With any of the 4 kinds, I can torque any of them more than they should be, but an ecx bit on a ratchet limited on T handle gets it perfect every time.
@@ptx3914 Hell yeah, now that's how to do it. I use one of those T handle ratchets with the torque set so I would quit tearing up hose clamps over tightening them!
I use a 1000V insulated ECX-style screwdriver. Milwaukee makes one. Other brands have the same shape, but with different names. Wiha calls it "xeno". Klein call it "combination". But for some reason I don't understand, Klein does not make an insulated combination-tip driver.
Most Robertson screw drivers are color coded too (at least they are up here in Canada) : Green is Robertson #1 Red is Robertson #2. Makes it very easy to spot the right one in the tool box!
There's also a yellow #0 and a black #3 Robertson - they're kind of rare - almost as rare as a phillips #3. I think only once did I find a #0 robertson screw, and only one time did I run into a philips #3 (probably actualy a JIS screw as it was commercial electrical equipment from Japan, but a #3 philips worked fine). Robertson #3 isn't as rare, but you don't see it too often.
@@pbakai182 Yeah, I know I've had to go fish out the #3 Robertson out of the tool box a few times, but couldn't remember for what. According to wikipedia, not only is there a #0 yellow, but also a #00 orange, and a #4 brown! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screw The More You Know [shooting star]
For an electrician, time is money. When plugging and switching devices, a #1 Roberts in a 18V or 12V drill is so much faster than anything else. I tried that ECX bit in my drill and it just took too long to line up the bit with screw head. After about 10 min I went back to the #1 Roberts.
@@d.k.1394 I actually use a 12 V brushless Milwaukee drill driver with a 1/4 inch quick release chuck. The drill has a great clutch and I can set the clutch so that it doesn't over tighten and strip out the screw heads. 2 fully charged 2.0 batteries gets me through the day no problem.
I only use Square head screw drivers for a few reasons. 1 they work way better then a star they don't round the screw. 2 you have lots more control on the screw
I've never seen an ECX before. Neat but seems like overkill for this application. Robertsons are cheap, ubiquitous and get the job done perfectly. I'm sure the ECX feels satisfying to use but the downside is it has to be oriented correctly like a flat head which makes it slightly less one-handable. It's also much less common and I'm willing to bet costs more (I could be wrong). That being said, I'll look for one the next time I'm at a hardware store because I'm a sucker for tools ;)
Not Over Kill, is the correct tool. Wanted to get Milwaukee ECX. But could only get Online. Got the 9 Bit? Klein with Bits in the Handle. 2 are ECX. I believe in getting Quality Tool to do Quality work. Stratmando
As an electrician my go too would be a 4mm slotted screwdriver 95% of the time and that's pretty much the industry standard. You can do almost a whole second fix using just a pair of snips and a slotted screwdriver
Our you could just try a stick to do everything. Get some tools, people are paying you good money, I wouldn't want all my outlet covers gouged up from your slotted screwdriver slips.
Allen and Torx are pretty common here in the U.S. now, I’m not sure why that they don’t utilize those for electrical applications. I agree though the square drivers are really good too.
Philips and slotted are pretty much tied for the worst. I hate 'em both. Give me square, -allen/hex,- or torx any day. EDIT: Disregard hex, another comment reminded me of people rounding them out by using the wrong size, since they come in both SAE and metric measurements. No thanks, don't want to deal with any of that after some clown was there before me using the wrong size.
I use an R1 for receptacles, switches, etc. and an R2 for operations in the distribution panel. I wasn't aware of the Milwaukee ECX drivers. They look great. Thanks for the tip. BTW I have sets of gunsmith-grade screwdrivers that are far superior to common ones. The flat-blade drivers are hollow ground so they are much less likely to slip out than inexpensive ones. One set is from Brownell's, the other from Chapman Tools. I recommend both brands.
Legrand is also my standard - I'm currently remodeling, and as I come across a switch or receptacle, I swap them out with a Legrand unit. They also have a great variety of paddle switches, dimmers, GFIs, Receptalces (including GFIs) with USB power plugs, receptacles with built in night lights, etc. Coolness!!!
I recently started working in electronic testing field after graduating with a physics degree. There is a lot about electrical work that I don't know about! We use a lot of those kind of screws at work, so I will have to look and see if we have any Robertson drivers at work. I've been using a Phillips or flathead this whole time because I didn't know there was any other options!
Damn, I've been doing it all wrong. Thanks so much for introducing me to the Robertson bit and the ECX. I've never known those existed. I've just used a Phillips screwdriver for electrical work around the house.
I've been using either JIS or a larger slotted screwdriver.. never occurred to me to try the square drive. I'll probably switch to Robertson no.1 and just leave that in my appropriate bin. I might try the hybrid but only if I catch a good sale or have a chance to try one out first.
Straight bladed screwdrivers are fine as long as the blade fits the whole screw head. I've been doing this work for 52 years...never had a problem. You should use your #2...the head fits the receptical screw better!
@@TheYear2525 Not just the width, but preferable the lengh. Manually, I have better control while tightening with proper flat driver than with either Phillips or Robertsons
As a mechanic I use a Snap On Philips #2 which does not slip due to its design, never knew about the square drive so I’ll definitely try that next time. Thanks for the info was very informative
Excellent video. You failed to mention the Klein combi 1 and 2 vs Milwaukee ecx 1 and 2. Both the same just different trade names. As you pointed out so well you can use a lot of different drivers to install switches and plugs. What is changing will be the need to torque these screws similar to circuit breaker binding screws. In that situation the #1 Robertson or ecx1 or combi 1 will not slip as much as a slotted or Philips #2. People can embrace technology or ignore it but as you said it is up to the user and your opinions are most accurate Cheers
Old electrician (since retired) here, We didn't have square drives back in the day but relied on a Klein flat blade. That's what we were taught and that's what we used. Fast forward to today I have the Klein # 1 & #2 square drivers for my electrical work and boy do you need that #2 for frozen breaker screws.
Mike you are absolutely correct. I was trained as an electrician’s helper 47 years ago. Worked in the trade for two summers. The electrician took me to the supply house and pointed at the tools I was to buy. One #2 Philips, one small straight bladed screwdriver, one medium straight bladed screwdriver, side cutters, dykes and a 16oz claw hammer. All Klines and cost me a fortune back then.
Working as a lineman + home wiring on side... 90% of the time we use "incorrect" tools.... Electrical equipment is up to 70 years old, different standards, repaired with whatever was available at the time.. Even if you have the correct tool "somewhere" it's faster to use something from toolbox (or in pocket). Time is money. Or at least a happy city transport official.
Computer guy here: sometimes I use a JIS screwdriver instead of a phillips for certain things where a lot of torque is necessary. Phillips screwdrivers are actually intended to cam-out to limit how much torque can be applied. That is why the grooves on them are angled.
He could have made a video about JIS screwdrivers and motorcycles. I worked on them for 30 years before I found out they were JIS screws and not Phillips. Wow, what a difference a JIS drivers make working on a Japanese motorcycle
Agreed. A JIS is visually similar to a Phillips, but they are practically quite different. Most people don’t know that the Phillips was designed to cam-out. At the time, good design, but archaic in today’s world.
The entire point of an ecx screw head is that it accepts multiple screwdriver tips. Every which one is listed to put out more torque than the termination is listed for. Also never heard of those ecx bits until a few years ago when I saw one made by ideal. On the other hand that screw head has been in service for ages…. Also the best tool for the job is a torque screwdriver especially if you’re a homeowner who doesn’t know what you’re doing.
Okey and I think that is, not so bright in todays world. Torx is near perfect. If you don't have the right tool for the application, you don't know what you are doing.
And the truth is, neither of the screwdrivers that it accepts work properly. There should be ONE type which is made it for, and works perfectly with! If someone doesn't have a flat, or PH or PZ screwdriver, then it might be better to avoid touching the work. But if you have all of them, but none of them works propery, nah, that's annoying! Btw. I always use a flat screwdriver for these universal crap (although not that improperly sized, like in the video). Robertson is pretty much rare in Europe. Most kits have PZ, PH, TX, Hex, Flat, but only one of my bit sets have a few square ones. Apart from that, the recommendation is good, because it works on some screws. But it really shouldn't have been imported in the EU, if the matching screwdriver is rare. Should be Torx instead, if not PH/PZ/Flat...
Being Canadian, I have all 5 Robertson driver sizes in multiple shaft lengths. Most of the screw types sold in hardware stores are Robertson heads. I throw away any supplied Phillips screws that come with purchased items. But I learned something new - the ECX driver. If I needed to change many outlets, the price is nothing. Thank you.
Wow. Always learning! As I understand it, a Philips head screwdriver is designed specifically to pop out of the screw head before over torquing, which could potentially damage the work or round off the screw head. A screw sized for the application would effectively determine the torque.. In practice, I have no idea if that's true.
its true, but it was designed with 1900s manifacturing in mind before torqe limiters on drills were common/cheap. since it is cheap and common now we should switch to a more robust head like torx or hex.
I've always used Phillips screwdrivers. I hate slotted screws and don't buy products or equipment that use them. I've never heard of ECX or Robertson before today, but I'm definitely gonna buy a set of both next time I'm at Lowe' s Depot!
Born in the USA, but I definitely favor the Robertson! The history of Robertson vs. Phillips is really interesting. I recommend looking it up. Also, please look into torque limiting screwdrivers. They are a bit pricey, but insure connections are properly torqued. e.g. The proper torque for a circuit breaker is molded right into the circuit breaker body label.
I love the idea of Robertson, but Torx seems like the best option in general since it's already in use. Either way, though, I just wish we could settle on one specific standard - either Robertson or Torx would be fine by me
@@audigex He's not talking about torx, he's talking about torque-limiting screwdrivers. Torx is a type of screwdriver head/bit; torque is how tight you turn the screw, regardless of head type. A torx head in an electrical terminal is a terrible idea because people would be far too likely to overtighten the screws, weakening the conductors and creating a serious risk of them failing, resulting in anything from a high resistance - and a potential fire - to a weakened conductor which could snap when disturbed later and create a short to another conductor.
I have used the #1 Robertson for years wherever I can. I have been upgrading my switches (again), adding a bunch more smart ones. I took your advice and bought a Milwaukee ECX #1 (HD, 3 piece insulated set), as well as a Klein Hybrid multi-bit (#2 only in the set) - easiest way to get these locally. For the most part, this has been great, but a few comments about my experience so far: For most wiring devices, the ECX#1 has been great, but there is at least one brand that it won't work on. I don't remember which but I believe it was either Lutron or Leviton. My panel was updated last year and I needed to swap out a single space breaker for a tandem. The ECX (Hybrid) #2 makes quick work of removing the panel cover, but the Eaton BR breakers are compatible with the ECX #1, not the #2. As I turn off a circuit, I also try to find the outlets where I used quickwire in the past and switch those to side wire. Thanks to your videos and my own experience with failed outlet connections, I know better now. Thanks for this outstanding series. You are costing me a little with tool upgrades, lol.
extremely interesting. I've always used the regular or philips, which ever was handy. But now that I see this, I do have one of those little kits around with multiple bits which has the square bits. I'll start using that from now on. Thanks for this tip.
As a Canadian, I've known about Roberson screw drivers since I was a kid and for electrical work since my high school shop classes, back in the late '60s. A #1 often has a green handle and #2 red, for easy identification. Also, the wood screws often used in electrical work fit a #2 perfectly, which means you can place the screw on the tip of the screwdriver and it stays put, as you push it into the wood. It's much superior to the Phillips in this regard. No Canadian tool box is complete without at least a couple of Robertsons in it. BTW, i am also not a fan of multiple tip drivers.
@@davidworks7758 Robertson was around long before Torx. As has been mentioned, you want Robertson screwdrivers for doing electrical work, as they properly fit the screws. As I mentioned, they make it very easy to drive in wood screws, as you don't have to worry about the screw falling off the tip and they don't slip.
You're my hero man! Glad another Canuck is here. Phillips head anything is far inferior to robbies. I often wonder how Americans still use it, along with most imperial measurements. (Admittedly, I measure lengths in inches as a go to.) Torx head is my favorite, but thats the mechanic coming out of me. For construction, im an electrician now for 8 years, robertson is the kingmaker. Keep that 🏒 on the 🧊
@@davidworks7758 Torx would be better for any application, but when you're an outlet manufacturer and have two options of 'make an outlet that requires the customer to use a Torx screwdriver only' and 'make an outlet that could be mounted with any widespread Philips, slotted or Robertson screwdriver' the choice is obvious.
I live in the Netherlands, and I have a Stanley 64-961 for years now and never new why it existed. Now I know, but we have different sockets for electric work but the screws I do recognise. Handy to know when to use the Stanley Robertson tip 1
The right slotted screwdriver is a fine choice IMO. None of the industrial Electricians I worked with used anything else to wire outlets of any kind. TBT, that tiny little thing in the video isn't the right one : it's too thin AND too narrow AND it's not insulated.
As a Canadian electrician when I buy a product that comes with Philips or slot installation screws I throw them out and use Robertson. To our American friends, try it, you'll like it. I haven't seen an ECX but it looks promising. I am happy to see that they are finally catching on there for construction screws. They stay on the screwdriver, even upside down.
I recently assembled most of a wooden swing set using a Phillips screwdriver on that type of screw, until it dawned on me that I could use a square bit. What a difference!
As a retired Canadian electrician, I love Robertson head screws. Unfortunatly when driving the multi head screws in recepticles, they usually strip the screw head before applying sufficient torque.
Those US wallsocket looks pretty scary in comparison to the European Schuko -Dutch and -German 230VAC wallsocket with push-in terminals for solid core wires...no screwdriver needed.
I can only speak for Germany, but here; Robertson srews are _really_ rarely used anywhere. The standard is Phillips in most electrical devices or, sadly, quite exotic proprietary screws.
That ECX looks really nice, but specific to these screw heads found mostly on electrical outlets it seems. For us in Canada though we all carry a full set of Robertson screwdrivers and bits all the time so that's an easy choice. I still can't understand why Philips and slotted screws are still so widespread today. Have we not all suffered enough from stripped screw heads? And what about all those bruised and skinned knuckles? It's baffling to say the least.
There is one important application for slotted screws, which is anything you are going to paint over. Slots are much easier to clean out than any other screw type. This is why they are often used in the marine industry for access panels that may be covered with two pot catalysed paint. The trick is to use a proper old school manual impact driver to get them moving again. I am a big fan of Robertson otherwise.
@@benoitverret6722 Is he also the reason for the Fahrenheit scale? Maybe we can blame him for that one too! LOL. A.J. Jacobs has a great bit on Fahrenheit in his book, "The Know-It-All". Definitely worth checking out.
After watching your videos and others on the combo bit I finally picked me up a Klein ratcheting screw driver that came with the combo bit and some ecx bits for my M12 drills and I have to say I’m impressed after installing some switches in my house.
Hey! I just discovered your videos a few weeks ago and have watched quite a few of them now. The very first one I watched was one where you mentioned using the Milwaukee ECX - I had never seen this before. It's a game changer!!! I went that same afternoon to my local hardware store but they did not carry it, so I found one on Amazon and received it the next day. The one I got is actually a Klein 15-in-1 ratcheting that includes the ECX #1 and #2. I am in the middle of replacing all of our outlets and switches and I cannot believe how amazingly perfect this bit works - for the past 20 years or so I have been using a combo of Phillips and flathead to get best results. ***Bonus: it ALSO is perfect for doorknob screws! THANK YOU for introducing me to my new favorite tool!!!
@@EverydayHomeRepairs - well the #1 combo bit was perfect for all the doorknob replacements I just did at my daughter's new house, but they weren't Schlage or Kwikset (I will provide an update if/when I find out the brand) - I just changed a few knobs at my house and they were just straight Phillips. I do wiring far more than doorknobs so doesn't matter much. I love ratcheting drivers and having lots of bits to swap out and this particular handle is super comfortable for me and the bit storage in the handle does NOT unscrew while using! - so I'm still in love with it :)
Excellent video. Yes, the #1square or ECX are the best to use. However, I have used a JIS +2 screwdriver & it appears to fit perfectly. It doesn’t “cam out” like a regular Philips. I use JIS screwdrivers on all my bicycle building projects- Japanese made derailleurs (such as Shimano ) have adjustment screws and these screws are made for JIS screwdriver bits. Asian autos also use JIS fasteners for many of the dashboard mounting screws.
Yeah it's a real shame we done replace Philips with JIS, it's a far superior design, but similar enough that people wouldn't need to replace all their Philips tools or hardware
Not sure what the torque specs are for a receptacle. But, I have never had issue using the #2 Phillips. In fact this was the entire purpose for the invention of the phillips drive. Factory workers kept breaking off screws with slot and hex tips. So, factory owners wanted a dummy proof drive that would skip the bolt rather than break it off when using air powered tools. So, it seems fitting to use a drive style when the proper torque is(seemingly) achieved without the risk of damaging a device.
First off, I love Robertson screws because it really does take a lot of the effort out of driving them into substrate. using a cordless drill, most of the energy in driving in a philips screw can sometimes be just the sheer amount of force required to keep the bit from camming out and ruining the screwhead. I knew an electrician that carried a pair of well worn Klein linesman pliers, and a large flat-bladed screwdriver. He could rough out holes in drywall for boxes, tighten conduit locknuts, and pretty much do almost all manner of residential electric with those 2 tools. He would gingerly touch wires to test them, relying on shot nerves and calloused fingers to take the edge off of the ~110v signaling his internal AC detector I'm not saying its the right way to do it, but.... it worked for him for 30 years. Then again, he had a huge drinking problem and 3 ex-wives (one which shot him, but they still talk) so maybe he wasn't the most "normal" electrician. I do recall an apprentice worker using a "square drive" as its called around here, and breaking a lot of the cheap plastic outlets because he was using a cordless impact and the square drive doesn't really cam out like a phillips (read : Does not cam out at all)
Every trade has specialty tools for the guy that does it for a living. For me, the Phillips worked fine for me when I did my renovation and it was already in my tool box. Take your time to make sure it's tight and right and you won't end up with a tool in your box you only use once every ten years. There are some projects that just can't be done without a particular tool and for those I bite the bullet and buy it, this isn't one of them
@@jordanadams5902 i use them for panel covers, for commercial roughs its usful as hell cause all the new screws on 4x4 boxes and its mountings use a combo bit. have a screwdriver and and impact bits
I'm a US electrician and most use slotted for receptacles, though I'll use a Philips to start and a slotted to finish. If I'm doing many receptacles, I will flip my 11 in 1 screwdriver to Robertson as it is superior. Everyone, using a Philips only for this does not allow for the torque needed. You will sooner or later have issues if you don't torque a termination down appropriately.
I am amazed at the most serious issue in this video: The Phillips screwdriver has no business here at all for the simplest of reasons - the screwhead is not Phillips - it is a combo of Robertson (slightly tapered square) and flat blade (straight slot) and NOTHING else. The Phillips screwdriver would only be considered here by people who typically use a totally incorrect screwdriver on screwheads.
Considered by people who think there are only two types of household screwdriver: Philips and flathead. Any other weird screws (like Torx) are for proprietary tech that is trying to keep you out. I remember the first time I saw a square hole in a screw was when I bought my first house, and I thought how the hell am I gonna unscrew this extremely stripped Philips screw? That’s when I noticed it wasn’t damaged at all, and then googled “square screwdriver” and found it. Now I see the value of the square bit, but I had to discover it on my own. My parents didn’t expose me to this during my time living with them.
I think the vast majority of people (in the US at least) simply never learned that anything other than Philips and Flat exist. And even if they know that others exist, they might not recognize one in the wild.
It's cut for straight, Robertson, and Phillips. The head is cut with two crossing slots and then deeper down is where the Robertson driver engages. If it wasn't meant for Phillips, then the crossed slot wouldn't be necessary. That crossing slot is actually what obscures the fact that a Robertson bit works in there. If you didn't have that crossing slot, you'd see two sharp corners across from each other.
The story behind why the Robertson never caught on in the US until recently is an interesting one. The Canadian who invented it refused to give up the patient on it to any American. And he held it until he died. At which point shortly after it expired and saw wider adoption. But in Canada they have become the most common screw. They come in 3 formats 1 2 3. 2 or (Red Robertson) being the most common and 1 (Green Robertson) being the next most common.
To be precise, though, that slotted screwdriver is wrong for that particular screw (too small). A properly sized slotted screwdriver should be as wide as the head (or nearly so), and thick enough that it provides a tight fit in the slot.
Right for this demo he should have had the right size slotted screw driver, but then again when you are in a hurry or can not find the right size, which is most of the time, his demo was more realistic.
Good catch. A properly sized slotted screwdriver also doesn't slip out of the slot as readily as an undersized one.
yes when these things were first put in practice a flat head screwdriver would have looked more like a cold chisel than what most of us have today to tighten up chair/table legs
That's the problem with slotted screws, there's no hard standard so you need a handful of screwdrivers.
@@jkbrown5496 There seems to be somewhat of a standard now with slotted screws - there's like 3 sizes that are useful - the large ones for screws like this in large electrical work, a mid size one that's kindof a jack of all trades, master of none type size, and a smaller one that's common on terminal blocks and small electronics. If you look at Klein screwdrivers, which are somewhat targeted at electrical work, there are 3 common sizes, and they're very similar to the sizes you find in other brand screwdriver sets as well.
As a Canadian in my sixties, I’ve been using Robertsons all my my life. It never occurred to me that someone would use anything else for electrical screws. Also, for wood screws, I can put a screw on the tip of the screwdriver and carry it to the target hole with just one hand sideways without it falling off. Robertson screws were invented by a furniture maker.
The Robertson #1 (green) and #2 (red) are part of every Canadian tool box, and it left me wondering what in this video what would be wrong with this? - it did not even occur to me that people would try to use a Philips!
@@BlaineZuk Here in the states Robertsons are primarily used in pocket screws. That's about it. a lot of people don't even know the robertson exists outside of that
I use the #1 Robertson the same way as described in the video, #2 Robertson for the ground screws in the outlet boxes and #3 Robertson for the Electrical Panel box screws (Square D panel). I don't recommend it, but a drill driver at slow speed helps as well.
Outside of electrical work, if you do manage to strip the screw head, you can drill 1/8 in the stripped head, tap in a #2 red robertson and pull the screw out, regardless of original shape (but you need practice as it doesnt always work and can take a toll on the driver. I keep older worn out driver for this reason). The robertson is the way to go for almost all screws when the option is available
@@HickLif3 The Kreg branded pocket hole screws use a square drive bit. The square drive bit was a cheap knock off of the patented Robertson bit design. Robertson Inc is still in Milton, Ont. I have boxes of both Kreg & Robertson branded screws in #8 in about 8 different lengths.
As an electrician, I've been using the ECX screwdriver for years now. It's also great for EMT fittings. I rarely use a slotted screwdriver for anything other than a pry bar or doorstop.
@@tabooretka as an electrician myself, I do occasionally use slotted screwdrivers. The offset ‘wiggly’ works best for cover plates imo. Larger slotted sizes come in handy when working on older equipment/loadcenters, and occasionally new breakers that use slotted terminal screws
As a handy Canadian I just sort of took it for granted that everyone used a #1 Robbie for that. Robertson is my tip of choice for most things and I only use Philips or slotted when I have no choice. For someone who did that job all the time though I can certainly see how buying that hybrid tip screwdriver would be worthwhile.
Agreed. Though I have also come to really love Torx. :) Slotted screws should be relegated to horology and vintage machinery.
As an American, I just started seeing Robertson head only screws just in the last 5-7 years or so, but I just realized that most screws probably have been compatible with the Robertson this entire time. But, F**K the person that puts tamper resistance torx in the packaging of kids toys. Not the toy itself mind you, the screws that hold it to the shipping spacers.
@@timsievers2067 The Torx is nice though. It holds REALLY well on the driver bit. You do need that bit though; most bit kits now have them.
@@timsievers2067 Torx bits, even tamper resistant, are incredibly easy to come by. I can't believe people are still complaining about them in 2022.
@@mjc0961 talking 2005 actually, and most people today still dont know what a "torx" is or why they need it to use the toy they just bought. I just came across a "rex" bit today, never heard of it before walking through the clearance aisle at the hardware store.
In the Electrical field here in Canada. It has been the norm to use the Robertson Drivers. They are common to purchase and are not expensive, good quality brands are readily available and they don't slip out. The Green Colored number one Robertson Driver is probably the most commonly used driver after the Red colored number two. That's the color of the handles so you can immediately tell the difference. A zero which is very small, is yellow and a number three, that is a black handle, it's for bigger screws.
So common that if you say hand me a red everyone knows what you're talking about.
The electrical outlets I bought didn't even support Phillips. It made things so much easier than I thought replacing outlets would be, the torque is satisfying. I don't know anything about screwdriver sizes and the green thing worked perfectly.
@@leerman22 That's right. I didn't even know that they made ones that accept Phillips screw drivers as well. The ones that I use only take a Roberson and a slot screwdriver.
not to mention it looked like a cheap POS from the thrift store.
@@my3dviews And indeed, the screwheads in this video do NOT have a Phillips opening at all - they are a combo of Robertson and straight slot and NOTHING else.
I learned something new today. Never knew that #1 square bit was so useful and called Robinson bit
Me too. I thought that the only choice as Phillips or slotted.
I'm an Electrician from Canada we here always use the #1 Robertson screwdriver. Most of our screws are Robertson here way easier to use they don't fall off your screwdriver, when lights etc come with Phillips screw we usually just throw them away and use Robertson screws instead.
For the average home DIYer, that doesn't want to invest in another "specialty" tool that may see very minimal use, I'll go with the Robertson as I already have several of those loose bits and didn't really know what they were used for but now I do!
Robertson is the best screwdriver bar none, the main reason it’s not used as much as it should is it’s Canadian whereas Philips is American.
Robertson is amazing so much better than philips
You can get the bit for your impact driver too, though. It's what I use for screwing the outlet into its box.
a good quality #2 phillips grips much better than his illustration. but the hybrid locks in like nothing else does.
@@kenbrown2808 I see no advantage to the ECX over a Robertson - it's just a gimmick to sell custom screwdrivers to yanks - in Canada, everyone has always used Robertson drivers exclusively for electrical work. I do enjoy how now in the US "square drive" wood screws are like a high end specialty item, and in Canada nearly all wood screws and self tapping metal screws are Robertson.
In Canada we use three Robertson size bits which work for every situation, and when we order something that comes with flathead or Phillips type screws, we generally toss those screws into a jar and replace them with Robertson screws. This makes the job better and easier for us and the next guy who comes along and has to do some work on that piece of equipment.
Yup. When I remove a flathead and Phillips screw I usually toss it directly into the garbage.
I've been a home improvement carpenter for a long time, and this is the first I've heard of these screw drivers. I will be adding them to my tool collection soon. Great info. Thanks.
I have never heard of these kind of screwdrivers either.
I have at least 6 of these sit around that have never been used. Philips gets the job done perfectly every time. Why fill a slot on my bag/belt for a single use tool
@@txfreerider Home Depot in Canda sells mostly Robertson exclusively. I can't recall seeing any Phillips screw s on their shelves. My tool pouch is all Robertson drivers. I rarely have to use Phillips and when I do it's usually accompanied by some 4 letter words has they're so hard to deal with.
Fun fact 1: the tendency of a screwdriver to slip out from the screw head while applying torque is call "cam out"
Fun fact 2: People who mention Robertson screws most likely Canadians because they're quite popular in Canada. These screws were invented by Canadian inventor P.L. Robertson and patented in 1909. The Ford Model T used around 700 of these screws but Ford later shifted to using Phillips screws when Robertson refused to grant an exclusive license to Ford for the use of these square drive screws.
Green robbie for electrical ohly
Mr Roberston was actually an American that immigrated into Canada. Us Canadians don't like to tell too many people that part though
@@peterdeboer2805
Henry Ford was a control freak as well as an admirerer of Adolf Hitler. Americans rarely mention that.
54 years old and have always thought about how to improve outlet screws, but no need now you found the tools! Ordering these now thanks!
Update: Just checked your Amazon link, the Milwaukee driver is unavailable so I got Milwaukee 48-32-4440 Insert bit Ecx 1/4"Hex, 2 Pack. Thanks again!
Since I live in Canada, Robertson screws are very commonly used. The great thing about them is that you can hold the screw on the end of your screwdriver if you want to start the screw more easily. I hardly ever use Philips screws and never slot screws anymore.
When I get things that come with screws, they are usually Philips head (and soft metal, at that) so they go directly into the scrap metal bin and are substituted with Robersons.
Hopefully Phillips and slotted screws will be extinct soon.
Torx is coming on along pretty well in the US, they are readily available everywhere. They're around, but Robertson is still not too common here.
Prefer Robertson over all other profiles.
@@mayorb3366 we gotta have something that cams out reasonably easy for mounting gypsum wallboard. Perhaps if mfgrs of wallboard guns introduced some mechanism that withdraws the cam-out-free bit at a certain point, but why? Philips still seems like it should be the go-to for drywall screws to me. darn near everything else? Robertson or Torx, please.
I have stripped so many screws with the same thought process. The tips you provided have made me feel more confident in tackling these kind of projects.
Been using Phillips for 30+ years, I can assure you I can apply enough torque to break the screws clean off. As an electrician I want to carry as little as possible, don’t get me wrong Robertson is great just don’t need all the time, I like them in panels.
But we have to be honest, today, screws are not what used to be 30 years ago. Today screws start to slide at very little torque. Yes, I know on higher torque turn should be slower but again, quality changed. Multi-bit screwdriver is a must today.
PS. Regarding this pool, depends where voters are from. In Europe, I doubt anyone used 3rd or 4th option. I am from EU, and I dont use 3rd or 4th option, this is first time I saw it.
This!
@@orion310591RS EU here , installed few breakers recently used Philips driver, but i have a breaker that i need to install so i just had to check in disbelief , and that little shit uses square driver screw. My brain just exploded...it looked weird when i was installing it but it would never occur to me I'm supposed to use square driver for it 😅
@@terrabiker The trick is, that material from USA or standard from USA arrived to EU. And it (almost) can be done in old fashined way with old (improper for new standard) tools.
To be honest we are talking about fine details, and just a little bit more (hand produced) torque which may not be needed for stationary wires, but again, this video is useful for informing people about slightly different tools/standards.
if you strip half the screws you touch effortlessly, you're a true electrician. 😉
As a Canadian, I have used #1,2,3 Robertson for decades. Pretty much everything from Framing, Deck building, Fence building to Electrical. It also never occurred to me to use a Philips or Slot, they will just slip. I just don't like the multibit drivers with Robertson, the dedicated Robertson screwdrivers I find last longer. I think everything should be Robertson or Torx.
If you can find a modern screw made for a modern P bit, a modern ISO-standard P bit will work perfectly. But those screws are rarely used in applications where so much torque is needed that cam-out would be a problem. "Jeweler's" drivers are P type.
Flat screwdrivers are made for prying things like paint cans open lol
As a non-Canadian, I think everything should just be Torx
As a fellow Canadian, I love using the robertson screwdriver. On job sites, I get disappointed when some equipment comes with a slot or phillips only.
It’s unfortunate that Henry Ford is still keeping USA from using the better screw. Robertson is in so many ways superior and easier to use over Philips....should have died over 100 years ago.
The Roberston (square) is a simply superior screw. It is great for electrical work but what I like best is that when driving screws you can put the screw on the bit first and it will stay there. Also, the screwdriver bit will not cam out as easily as a Phillips or slotted. If you buy a box of Roberstons you will never go back to Phillips.
Add a good magnetic bit holder and you can’t make that screw fall off.
@@CautiousCrow Robertson is less probe to rounding. I find Torx tend to wear down faster given the many fine machined points of contact. If you use the right size Robertson you will never cam out
Every type screw has its disadvantages, including Robertson.
@@jamese9283 True, but Robertson has one quality the others don't have: you can easily renew the screwdriver tip. Robertsons are slightly tapered so if the driver wears grind a bit off the end and now it fits good as new.
@@jeffreyesguitar5129 , if you're using non-magnetic stainless steel deck screws and similar, magnetic bit holders and socketed screwdrivers don't work any better! But yes, Robertson screws in general are terrific, and I prefer them over Torx. Note that Makita makes a handy dandy little hollow, bullet-shaped magnet that slides over the shaft of your screwdriver or 1/4" hex drive bit and adds extra magnetic grip. These work really well for holding screws of all types. I've never used a Robertson screwdriver on electrical outlet screws, but a #1 does seem a little small for the job. I wish it was a #2.
In all my tool bags, my desk draw, my range bag, and my main camera case, I carry Klein 11-in-1 screwdrivers. Full time, I do datacom, and often have need to use conduit, and much prefer when there is a square head on them, though I mostly use the dust-free conduit fittings because the client that I do the most conduit for requires them. Recently, I was replacing some outlets in my house, and love the squares, works so well. When doing carpentry type work, I much prefer the star head screws. For the finish screws I use for some stuff, they are a square drive and work very well.
IMHO, all types have their place, well, except for flat heads, lets get rid of flat heads.
Electricians adopted the Robertson early when they were doing knob and tube wiring it would allow one handed operation of the screw driver while holding the wire and insulator together.
Interesting, because every old panel and jbox from the 20s-60s ive gutted or worked on from residential to industrial has been slotted only
I use the Milwaukee 1000V insulated ECX screwdriver. It comes in a set of 3, the other 2 drivers are slotted and Phillips. I love my ECX, it turns tighter, and the driver never slips off the screw
Same i bought the same set and I love that screw driver. Never used one before buying that set.
Got a link?
@@kalijasin hone depot sells a 3 set of 1000v insulated. A slotted a Phillips and the hybrid
This is written so well it could be an ad lol
@@Incipiwav no better advertisement than a happy user.
I do a lot of handyman/maintenance work. I started using the Milwaukee ECX a few years ago. It is hands down the best tool for working with switches and outlets. No more slipping and worrying if your phillips is going to slip and not get the screw tight enough. The ECX grabs and very seldom slips. Always a tight connection when you are finished.
As most others, I hadn't heard of the combo ECX driver before. This should be a "Game Changer" when installing outlets/switches.
Just like jeffostrof, I went to Home Depot and got the insulated #1 ECX, a straight blade, and phillips set for $20.97. I had expected to pay $20 just for the uninsulated #1 ECX. A great deal!!
THanks for the video.
Yup, great deal
It’s called a Xeno tip generically, ecx is a brand name
Been around electrical since the early 80's. Worked with electricians many many times since then and this is the FIRST time I've ever seen this. Have seen ET's use a Phillips and then follow up with the straight, but this tip seems like the proper way to go. Strange, I've had them in my tool box for 30 years and never used them....
Phillips followed by straight is my technique.
I have recently switched from Philips to Robertson. Glad I did.
One GREAT benefit of the multi-drivers is that you can put a #1 square drive on one side of the sleeve and a small straight blade bit on the other side. Allows you to quickly flip from installing outlet and switch wiring then flip the sleeve and install the plates.
Yep... for years that was me. I could never figure why the phillips never quite fit right. Then someone turned me on to the Milwaukee insulated ECX screwdriver and it has been my go to electrical fastener ever since.
In Canada, Roberson screws are the most common and least expensive fastener type. I've worked as an electrician and, to me, that Milwaukee hybrid would end up being a pain in the ass to constantly have to line up while the Robertson is quick, easy and delivers more than enough torque with mininal effort. I'll stick with Robertson.
The ECX bit is wonderful for terminals you need a good bite on to tighten. I keep a couple in the tool bag for such. I have found that a 1/4 flat driver works for 99.9% of devices I work on though. Cover plates all the way to panel lugs. The less tools hanging on my belt the happier I am.
I think every type of screw everywhere should be a TORX head screw so you can us TORX screw drivers. They give far far stronger and better grip than any other type I have ever used.
You’re not wrong
That’s funny just had a fellow worker tell me the button head torx was a half size metric Allen 🤪. I was hoping he was kidding but he fought it until the drill bits came out……I gave him a torx25……
When I am coronated, King of the world. My first order if business will be banning straight slot screwdrivers.
Torx is good, but I've also never been disappointed with Robertson.
@@davepalmer7987 I don't like slotted screws but I like flat screwdrivers as they are versatile for more than just screws.
thats wild. as an electronics technician I think I will stick with the philips and then tighten with a flat head unless I come accross a robinson bit in one of my sets for personal use. will keep that in mind tho when picking new tools in the future.
I wish I had known this 30 years ago. My DIY days are over, but I did a lot of home wiring back then, and no one ever suggested these tools.
30 years ago a standard receptacle did not have the type of screw shown in this video so neither the special combination tip or the square drive would have been useful. At that time only a standard flat blade screwdriver would be used.
Because noone cares enough to use these tools today and they didn't use those screws back in the day.
Just another example of people inventing solutions to problems that don't exist.
Lazy bum
I inherited a bunch of tools from my dad who was an industrial electrician for decades. I came across a number of "weird" Phillips looking screw drivers. It never occurred to me to try them on electrical switches/outlets. But that Milwaukee "ECX" screw driver just answered a decade old questions of "what the heck did he have these for". Thanks!
I inherited some of my Grandpa's Fathers 1920s tools. Hand drills, measuring devices, hammers, all still work/look just fine. Like little treasures but probably not worth all that much any where else
Industrial electrician here, when I started in 1990 my employer made me buy a Reid and Prince screwdriver, looks like a Phillips, never used it...ever.
@@blur911 Reid and Prince fasteners have that extra little groove. Reid and Prince screwdrivers have corresponding pawls to fit in there. In over 50 years working with tools, I have never needed one. One would have to wonder why your employer insisted on you having one! I hope it didn't cost much.
@@badbiker666 The guy making the tool list hadn't worked in the field in years, nor in Canada, I also have a set of huge fuse pullers I've never used. I remember neither of them being cheap.
I never knew these existed. As a DIY'er, I have run into these problems MANY times with Philips screwdrivers and have wondered what the right type was for YEARS. I just ordered a Milwaukee ECX #1 along with a set of #1 and #2 driver bits. Thank you!!
I was an electrician, many years ago, and I never heard about the Robertson driver fitting those screw heads. Wish I had known. Thanks for the info, it will still come in handy for future projects.
Older devices did not accept the Robertson screwdriver. I am not sure when the manufacturers redesigned their products to accept it. I have a #1 Robertson in my bag (purchased in Canada) and I use it on any switch or receptacle because I found that other screwdrivers could slip.
We should ALL be using Robertson - it is just a better design and has excellent holding power for regular construction and one-handed operation!
Agreed!
@@skim193 “That metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that’s the way I likes it!” -Abe Simpson
All the world really needs is love…….. and a set of Robbies! Green and red are the most popular sizes, but it’s best to have a black and a yellow too. You just sleep better knowing that you are prepared. 😎🇨🇦
@@skim193 Oh, you mean Pozidriv screws.
@@bunkerhill4854 😂 that's awesome!
I have recently gone with the multi-bit that has ECX, Robertson, Phillips, Flat, and several sizes of nut driver. It has become my go-to because of the versatility. I have large hands, so I have no problem holding the larger handle.
How did it feel to have everyone in Canada yelling at your video for the first 3 minutes? Always has been Robertson's for me as a DIYer . Pretty sure most Canadians have the same experience.
Yup, but you need both a "red handle" and "green handle" to properly do NEMA outlets. The green can work in the terminal screws, but often strips out. The Red is the one to use, and it can apply a large amount of torque, enough to overtighten if one goes too far.
The Green handle is used for the box attachment screws.
Another great video Scott. Once one uses the ECX, its hard to go back. I might mention that for typical duplex/switch replacement, and cover replacements, I usually find myself reaching for my ‘old’ GB 1000 volt insulated screwdriver with multi tips. It works well enough on the wiring, and the smaller slotted bit is perfect for the plate screws. Peace ✌🏻
Do you have a link to "GB 1000 volt insulated screwdriver with multi tips"? Thank you.
3:00 I work in maintenance and have had some of these square bits and NEVER knew what they were for until now. I've never seen any of my coworkers use them so I just figured they were for a special type of screw. This is awesome!
You'll use the square bits in a lot of construction screws, torx bits are found in construction screws often as well. Oh! And your pocket hole screws are almost all square bit for ease of install.
Thanks for showing this. I live in Canada and I have always used a robertson screwdriver for these. As a matter of fact the robertson screw was invented in Canada. I notice the United States seems to use mostly the philips head screws and not much of the robertson. I didn't know the ECX Milwaukee screwdriver even existed. I will have to check that out.
I've been using the Phillips with a slotted to do the final tightening, and I'm glad to see that you suggested that as a good solution without buying new tools. I was surprised just how much more tightening I can do with the slotted screwdriver after it feels tight with the Phillips. My slotted that I use for outlets is a bit wider (more distance from one end of the slot to the other), so it works great for not slipping. It's also extra short, which gives me better control. Having tools that you like really helps.
Phillips was designed to limit the torque and cam out for use on the auto assembly lines.
@@jkbrown5496 Unfortunately, camping out tends to strip the screw head, especially if done with a power tool.
If tou do strip a Phillips head screw that doesn't have a built-in slot, make a slot using a Demel tool with a cutoff wheel.
@@davepaturno4290 as a mechanic with 19 years of experience, you just made me cringe from reminders of new mechanics sheering off 3/8" and 13mm bolts with the 1/2" impact or cracking sockets because they didn't grab the ones designed for said impact... 🤦♀️
@@kraziecatclady Well, I have over 30 years as a mfg engineer and have a degree in mechanical engineering, so I can assure you that I am well aware of metallurgy, tools, and torque. Sadly, I'm not a mechanic but I have worked on a few cars over the years.😏
Great idea- but I’ve been using a Phillips for decades and never had any issue. Seems like a solution in search of a problem. But I’ll still probably switch because it’s a better tool for the job and it’s cheap. Good video. 👍
It is essentially, the screw is designed for a number of different heads.
Green Robbie gives 100% contact eveytime without slippinb
I once built a ground level patio deck for some friends just across the border in Vermont. When I started to assemble the deck , using Coated Deck screws from Canadian Tire, they were amazed that these even existed! They had never seen a Robertson screw, never mind a Robertson Screwdriver.! After they saw how much easier it was to load and torque into the wood, I had more than a few of them get me to “smuggle” in the Canuck contraband. 👍🇨🇦
Down here, we call them "Allen Wrenches" (or at least the little metal tools to turn screws with square holes). We also have drill bits that fit those, too. You frequently also see them (albeit it larger sizes) on office chairs, if you buy one that you gotta assemble at home. The only difference is that they don't have the slot for a flathead screwdriver, it's just a square hole with an octagon head for a ratchet socket.
@@Dhalin Alllen and Robertson are not the same.
@@Dhalin Allen wrenches have a hexagonal, not square, cross-section.
@@TorontoLS Weird. I've seen them with square bits too.
@@Dhalin Allen wrenches are hexagonal socket wrenches.
I'm retired from a fence company where, along with building fences, I installed and trouble shot gate operators and entry control systems. I let the screw head tell me what kind of driver to use. Most were square. Some were phillips/slotted in which case I used the phillips. Slotted drivers are good for prying parts apart.😁
I changed an outlet once using a butter knife.
Specialized tools are cool, but unless you are a electrician or a contractor, they are not necessary.
Hey man, use what you have when times are deperate !!!
I've always used Philips, but I've always had a flat-head, if I needed it.
I knew about Robertson in general, but I didn't know they were commonly used for outlets -- I need to look at those screw heads more closely!
The ECX looks nice, and I'll see if I can find some bits for that for use in my multi-driver.
Thanks!
Robertson fasteners are much more common in Canada than they are in the USA. Robertson, the inventor and original manufacturer, was Canadian and set up his operation there. Due to industrial politics, most U.S. manufacturers adopted Phillips screws instead of Robertsons (the Robertson design actually predated Phillips, star drives (such as Torx), and virtually all the others except the slot-headed screws).
@@censusgary -- I've known about the history of Robertson drive for years, but what I was not aware of is that they are commonly used on light switches. Maybe I haven't looked at enough light switches in the last few years....
@@shubinternet In Canada, you ALWAYS see robertsons on "commodity" electrical devices (outlets, switches, most breakers, panels). Been that way for at least 2 decades, if not 4.
@@fromagefrizzbizz9377 -- whereas I live in the US (well, Texas) and this is a new thing for me to see on the outlets down here.
Much appreciated! Thanks!
@@shubinternet took you long enough, Robertson’s were invented in 1908! 🤪
As my dad (a professional civil engineer) used to say, Phillips screws should be outlawed and selling flat drive screws should be a capitol crime punishable by death 🤪
In Canada the only “commodity” Phillips screws you see are drywall screws. Phillips and flat are more often seen in specialty stuff, some smaller bolts and brass. Allen heads have always been around. Torx is making big inroads now, especially in wood screws, and after driving 10’s of thousands of Robertsons, my new bulk purchases are always torx, and I’m not alone in that.
I have an electrician friend who said he would quit the trade if he had to work in the US with Philips...there is absolutely no better tip for wiring than Robertson (not withstanding the very specialized tip used here)...we Canadians love Robertson but it baffles us as to why the US hasn't adopted them.
They love to be "different" lol.
It is because of a licensing dispute between Robertson and the Ford motor company way back in the day
we yanks do use a fair percentage of square drive, but it has its own weaknesses. it will actually strip screw heads more effectively than anything else, and somehow I've had robertson screws strip out and still had to use pliers to get the bit loose from the stripped screw. phillips cams out easier than robertson, but it usually doesn't strip as badly so it can be backed out and replaced. torx grips amazingly well, but stainless screws will fall off the tip, and every size screw uses a different size driver.
As a canadian that's now in the US, Robertson (well technically "square" drive) shows up here more now as a "specialty screw" - I have a feeling the patent on Robertson must've expired, so now there's no licensing requirement. I use robertson screws on purpose hoping someone after me will run into them and go "WTF?? Security screws?? why the...." :)
@@andymerrett: screws in that kind of wire termination pretty much have to be flathead to have enough surface area for a screwdriver to grip.
THANKS FOR YOUR VIDEO. PLEASE include this on your next one. (I'm going to get myself a Milwaukee #1-ECX tool)That's Kewl!
What most people don't realize, the multi-bit, (or I call them "flip-over screwdrivers"), have 2 different sized deep pocket nut-drivers (for doing stud type terminal boards). A different size on each end, and you can pull the driver tube out all the way and the handle has a slotted drive hole in it, that is a perfect tool for tightening wing type wire nuts...!
As a Canadian for the longest time I didn't reolize the square drive (robirtson) was not used much down south but I think it's ideal because it doesn't cam out like phillips does. But there is also the Japanese phillips that solves that problem as well. Called JIS #1 (Japanese industrial standard) which people who work on Honda or yamaha equipment will know about or Pz #1 which is pozidriv which is phillips but solves camout problem as well.
Small difference in design but huge difference in performance especially on those stuck screws
It seems you and the JIS folks may not understand that the Phillips is supposed to cam out as a means of preventing over-tightening of the fastener by design. If you want the fastener to be tighter you are supposed to use a different design meant to achieve that; there's plenty to choose from. I'm an American, but I agree with you that for most applications Robertson is better, yet it has it's own design weaknesses too. The reason it never got popular outside of Canada is greed- Robertson wanted more $$$ to license it's use by manufacturers in the US than Phillips wanted for his system, so factories took the cheaper option since it was adequate. Once things got established it tended to stay that way because everybody then had those particular tools. A Canadian by the name of Witold Rybczynski wrote a book called "One Good Turn" explaining the history of the screw and the reason for the many types we have, it's really good reading and I highly recommend it.
@@P_RO_ I'm aware it was designed that way on purpose. We were talking about this specific application where you need more torque i felt these were valid options for our specific application. I mean no you shouldn't just start over tightening all the screws in your engine bay or something.
@@P_RO_ , The History Guy channel did a video about screwdriver history a few years ---- it is still his most-watched video!
A hint for those unfamiliar: the JIS Phillips variant usually has a small divot or dot in the screwhead to signify that it is a JIS standard screw head. You can't normally buy those special screwdrivers in a local hardware store and the primary manufacturer is Vessel, however, the Milwaukee impact rated Philips drive bits fit them quite well, much better than Dewalt or Makita bits (and there is one particular dewalt Phillips drive bit that has a pointier tip and thinner vanes than most, and doesn't seem to fit any screw I've tried it on,). Japanese built stereo equipment usually has JIS screws.
@@codylucente A Phillips is the wrong tool for this specific application and if you try to do anything with the wrong tool you often end up with an avoidable failure. If you can't or won't do a job correctly then you shouldn't be doing it. The difference between an amateur and a pro isn't so much in doing a job the right way because both can do that, but in understanding why it needs to be done that way which only the pro does. Knowing why is worth a lot more than only knowing how.
The ECX has been fantastic and definitely my go to for circuit breakers especially. You won't go back after using one, especially if you fully understand that the amount of torque applied determines the current the circuit can safely carry and keeping those connections cool under heavy loads. Extremely Important and often ignored!
Right. With any of the 4 kinds, I can torque any of them more than they should be, but an ecx bit on a ratchet limited on T handle gets it perfect every time.
@@ptx3914 Hell yeah, now that's how to do it. I use one of those T handle ratchets with the torque set so I would quit tearing up hose clamps over tightening them!
I use a 1000V insulated ECX-style screwdriver. Milwaukee makes one. Other brands have the same shape, but with different names. Wiha calls it "xeno". Klein call it "combination". But for some reason I don't understand, Klein does not make an insulated combination-tip driver.
Most Robertson screw drivers are color coded too (at least they are up here in Canada) :
Green is Robertson #1
Red is Robertson #2.
Makes it very easy to spot the right one in the tool box!
There's also a yellow #0 and a black #3 Robertson - they're kind of rare - almost as rare as a phillips #3. I think only once did I find a #0 robertson screw, and only one time did I run into a philips #3 (probably actualy a JIS screw as it was commercial electrical equipment from Japan, but a #3 philips worked fine). Robertson #3 isn't as rare, but you don't see it too often.
@@gorak9000 black robbies are common for larger EMT. never seen a yellow though
I have a yellow Robbie - used mostly for very small wood screws, not for electrical work.
@@pbakai182 Yeah, I know I've had to go fish out the #3 Robertson out of the tool box a few times, but couldn't remember for what. According to wikipedia, not only is there a #0 yellow, but also a #00 orange, and a #4 brown! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screw The More You Know [shooting star]
@@gorak9000 There is also an orange #00. I have one in my tool box as a millwright and have used it on really small screws.
For an electrician, time is money. When plugging and switching devices, a #1 Roberts in a 18V or 12V drill is so much faster than anything else. I tried that ECX bit in my drill and it just took too long to line up the bit with screw head. After about 10 min I went back to the #1 Roberts.
But the power of the battery drill can strip the thread and they are heavy and the battery goes flat often
@@d.k.1394 I actually use a 12 V brushless Milwaukee drill driver with a 1/4 inch quick release chuck. The drill has a great clutch and I can set the clutch so that it doesn't over tighten and strip out the screw heads. 2 fully charged 2.0 batteries gets me through the day no problem.
Drill is the way to go. Especially screwing outlet to box. You just need a feel for it. You need a new drill if you run out of battery doing outlets.
This. A few years back I bought one of these bits when I saw it on a rack a tiers bit display.
Talk about disappointment.
I only use Square head screw drivers for a few reasons. 1 they work way better then a star they don't round the screw. 2 you have lots more control on the screw
I've never seen an ECX before. Neat but seems like overkill for this application. Robertsons are cheap, ubiquitous and get the job done perfectly. I'm sure the ECX feels satisfying to use but the downside is it has to be oriented correctly like a flat head which makes it slightly less one-handable. It's also much less common and I'm willing to bet costs more (I could be wrong).
That being said, I'll look for one the next time I'm at a hardware store because I'm a sucker for tools ;)
They're not uncommon, especially as part of an all-in-one screwdriver or a screwdriver kit. They're just commonly ignored or unknown by most people.
Ideal makes one, Milwaukee 11-1’s are awkward for my hand, so I went ideal
They are annoying to use vs a robertson or phillips. Especially in repetition
@@GuyFromJupiter Are you in the US? In Canada, I've never seen them whether in a pack or sold separately.
Not Over Kill, is the correct tool. Wanted to get Milwaukee ECX. But could only get Online. Got the 9 Bit? Klein with Bits in the Handle. 2 are ECX.
I believe in getting Quality Tool to do Quality work.
Stratmando
As an electrician my go too would be a 4mm slotted screwdriver 95% of the time and that's pretty much the industry standard. You can do almost a whole second fix using just a pair of snips and a slotted screwdriver
Our you could just try a stick to do everything. Get some tools, people are paying you good money, I wouldn't want all my outlet covers gouged up from your slotted screwdriver slips.
@@ColCurtis nobody gouges the sockets up with a slotted? White plastic ones rarely scratch and if its a chrome one you just take your time
The industry standard is the Robertson
@@relaxingnature2617 I don't even know what that is
Just ordered a ECX #1 screwdriver. Had no idea they even existed. Thanks!!
I've used a no. 1 square drive for years. No slipping and you can really tighten those terminals. Far superior to Phillips and slotted.
Allen and Torx are pretty common here in the U.S. now, I’m not sure why that they don’t utilize those for electrical applications. I agree though the square drivers are really good too.
Philips and slotted are pretty much tied for the worst. I hate 'em both. Give me square, -allen/hex,- or torx any day.
EDIT: Disregard hex, another comment reminded me of people rounding them out by using the wrong size, since they come in both SAE and metric measurements. No thanks, don't want to deal with any of that after some clown was there before me using the wrong size.
I use an R1 for receptacles, switches, etc. and an R2 for operations in the distribution panel. I wasn't aware of the Milwaukee ECX drivers. They look great. Thanks for the tip.
BTW I have sets of gunsmith-grade screwdrivers that are far superior to common ones. The flat-blade drivers are hollow ground so they are much less likely to slip out than inexpensive ones. One set is from Brownell's, the other from Chapman Tools. I recommend both brands.
Legrand is also my standard - I'm currently remodeling, and as I come across a switch or receptacle, I swap them out with a Legrand unit. They also have a great variety of paddle switches, dimmers, GFIs, Receptalces (including GFIs) with USB power plugs, receptacles with built in night lights, etc. Coolness!!!
I recently started working in electronic testing field after graduating with a physics degree. There is a lot about electrical work that I don't know about! We use a lot of those kind of screws at work, so I will have to look and see if we have any Robertson drivers at work. I've been using a Phillips or flathead this whole time because I didn't know there was any other options!
Unless you're changing sockets and lamp switches in the US/CA there's no reason to use them.
Great "degree"...
@@dongleberry4397 you're saying physics is not degree worthy?
why did you choose that job? physics degree is overqualified
Damn, I've been doing it all wrong. Thanks so much for introducing me to the Robertson bit and the ECX. I've never known those existed. I've just used a Phillips screwdriver for electrical work around the house.
I've heard "ECX" however wasn't 100% on it vs the Robertson, Thanks for making it crystal clear.
I've been using either JIS or a larger slotted screwdriver.. never occurred to me to try the square drive. I'll probably switch to Robertson no.1 and just leave that in my appropriate bin. I might try the hybrid but only if I catch a good sale or have a chance to try one out first.
JIS is gold
I have a Vessel JIS driver that has a serrated tip for extra bite and it works very good. Especially when driving actual JIS screws.
Straight bladed screwdrivers are fine as long as the blade fits the whole screw head. I've been doing this work for 52 years...never had a problem. You should use your #2...the head fits the receptical screw better!
I agree, the diver should fit the width of the slot, so it has some friction there and doesn't wiggle loosely.
@@TheYear2525 Not just the width, but preferable the lengh. Manually, I have better control while tightening with proper flat driver than with either Phillips or Robertsons
As a mechanic I use a Snap On Philips #2 which does not slip due to its design, never knew about the square drive so I’ll definitely try that next time. Thanks for the info was very informative
Excellent video. You failed to mention the Klein combi 1 and 2 vs Milwaukee ecx 1 and 2. Both the same just different trade names. As you pointed out so well you can use a lot of different drivers to install switches and plugs. What is changing will be the need to torque these screws similar to circuit breaker binding screws. In that situation the #1 Robertson or ecx1 or combi 1 will not slip as much as a slotted or Philips #2. People can embrace technology or ignore it but as you said it is up to the user and your opinions are most accurate Cheers
Old electrician (since retired) here, We didn't have square drives back in the day but relied on a Klein flat blade. That's what we were taught and that's what we used. Fast forward to today I have the Klein # 1 & #2 square drivers for my electrical work and boy do you need that #2 for frozen breaker screws.
Mike you are absolutely correct. I was trained as an electrician’s helper 47 years ago. Worked in the trade for two summers. The electrician took me to the supply house and pointed at the tools I was to buy. One #2 Philips, one small straight bladed screwdriver, one medium straight bladed screwdriver, side cutters, dykes and a 16oz claw hammer. All Klines and cost me a fortune back then.
Working as a lineman + home wiring on side... 90% of the time we use "incorrect" tools.... Electrical equipment is up to 70 years old, different standards, repaired with whatever was available at the time.. Even if you have the correct tool "somewhere" it's faster to use something from toolbox (or in pocket). Time is money. Or at least a happy city transport official.
Computer guy here: sometimes I use a JIS screwdriver instead of a phillips for certain things where a lot of torque is necessary. Phillips screwdrivers are actually intended to cam-out to limit how much torque can be applied. That is why the grooves on them are angled.
He could have made a video about JIS screwdrivers and motorcycles. I worked on them for 30 years before I found out they were JIS screws and not Phillips. Wow, what a difference a JIS drivers make working on a Japanese motorcycle
Agreed. A JIS is visually similar to a Phillips, but they are practically quite different. Most people don’t know that the Phillips was designed to cam-out. At the time, good design, but archaic in today’s world.
The entire point of an ecx screw head is that it accepts multiple screwdriver tips. Every which one is listed to put out more torque than the termination is listed for.
Also never heard of those ecx bits until a few years ago when I saw one made by ideal. On the other hand that screw head has been in service for ages….
Also the best tool for the job is a torque screwdriver especially if you’re a homeowner who doesn’t know what you’re doing.
Okey and I think that is, not so bright in todays world. Torx is near perfect. If you don't have the right tool for the application, you don't know what you are doing.
And the truth is, neither of the screwdrivers that it accepts work properly. There should be ONE type which is made it for, and works perfectly with!
If someone doesn't have a flat, or PH or PZ screwdriver, then it might be better to avoid touching the work.
But if you have all of them, but none of them works propery, nah, that's annoying!
Btw. I always use a flat screwdriver for these universal crap (although not that improperly sized, like in the video).
Robertson is pretty much rare in Europe. Most kits have PZ, PH, TX, Hex, Flat, but only one of my bit sets have a few square ones.
Apart from that, the recommendation is good, because it works on some screws. But it really shouldn't have been imported in the EU, if the matching screwdriver is rare. Should be Torx instead, if not PH/PZ/Flat...
My late father was an IBEW electrician for 50 years. He would have LOVED this tool!
😁 My dad is a retired IBEW lineman 👍
Being Canadian, I have all 5 Robertson driver sizes in multiple shaft lengths. Most of the screw types sold in hardware stores are Robertson heads. I throw away any supplied Phillips screws that come with purchased items. But I learned something new - the ECX driver. If I needed to change many outlets, the price is nothing. Thank you.
if you need to change many outlets, get a hybrid tip for your cordless. your wrists will thank you.
Wow. Always learning!
As I understand it, a Philips head screwdriver is designed specifically to pop out of the screw head before over torquing, which could potentially damage the work or round off the screw head. A screw sized for the application would effectively determine the torque.. In practice, I have no idea if that's true.
its true, but it was designed with 1900s manifacturing in mind before torqe limiters on drills were common/cheap. since it is cheap and common now we should switch to a more robust head like torx or hex.
I've always used Phillips screwdrivers. I hate slotted screws and don't buy products or equipment that use them.
I've never heard of ECX or Robertson before today, but I'm definitely gonna buy a set of both next time I'm at Lowe' s Depot!
Born in the USA, but I definitely favor the Robertson! The history of Robertson vs. Phillips is really interesting. I recommend looking it up. Also, please look into torque limiting screwdrivers. They are a bit pricey, but insure connections are properly torqued. e.g. The proper torque for a circuit breaker is molded right into the circuit breaker body label.
I love the idea of Robertson, but Torx seems like the best option in general since it's already in use. Either way, though, I just wish we could settle on one specific standard - either Robertson or Torx would be fine by me
@@audigex Torx? I've never seen an outlet with a Torx screw?
@@audigex He's not talking about torx, he's talking about torque-limiting screwdrivers. Torx is a type of screwdriver head/bit; torque is how tight you turn the screw, regardless of head type. A torx head in an electrical terminal is a terrible idea because people would be far too likely to overtighten the screws, weakening the conductors and creating a serious risk of them failing, resulting in anything from a high resistance - and a potential fire - to a weakened conductor which could snap when disturbed later and create a short to another conductor.
butter knife, that's always worked for me!
The choice of electrical hacks the world around.
😂
I have used the #1 Robertson for years wherever I can. I have been upgrading my switches (again), adding a bunch more smart ones. I took your advice and bought a Milwaukee ECX #1 (HD, 3 piece insulated set), as well as a Klein Hybrid multi-bit (#2 only in the set) - easiest way to get these locally. For the most part, this has been great, but a few comments about my experience so far:
For most wiring devices, the ECX#1 has been great, but there is at least one brand that it won't work on. I don't remember which but I believe it was either Lutron or Leviton.
My panel was updated last year and I needed to swap out a single space breaker for a tandem. The ECX (Hybrid) #2 makes quick work of removing the panel cover, but the Eaton BR breakers are compatible with the ECX #1, not the #2.
As I turn off a circuit, I also try to find the outlets where I used quickwire in the past and switch those to side wire. Thanks to your videos and my own experience with failed outlet connections, I know better now.
Thanks for this outstanding series. You are costing me a little with tool upgrades, lol.
extremely interesting. I've always used the regular or philips, which ever was handy. But now that I see this, I do have one of those little kits around with multiple bits which has the square bits. I'll start using that from now on. Thanks for this tip.
As a Canadian, I've known about Roberson screw drivers since I was a kid and for electrical work since my high school shop classes, back in the late '60s. A #1 often has a green handle and #2 red, for easy identification. Also, the wood screws often used in electrical work fit a #2 perfectly, which means you can place the screw on the tip of the screwdriver and it stays put, as you push it into the wood. It's much superior to the Phillips in this regard. No Canadian tool box is complete without at least a couple of Robertsons in it.
BTW, i am also not a fan of multiple tip drivers.
What about torx?
@@davidworks7758 Robertson was around long before Torx. As has been mentioned, you want Robertson screwdrivers for doing electrical work, as they properly fit the screws. As I mentioned, they make it very easy to drive in wood screws, as you don't have to worry about the screw falling off the tip and they don't slip.
You're my hero man! Glad another Canuck is here. Phillips head anything is far inferior to robbies. I often wonder how Americans still use it, along with most imperial measurements. (Admittedly, I measure lengths in inches as a go to.) Torx head is my favorite, but thats the mechanic coming out of me. For construction, im an electrician now for 8 years, robertson is the kingmaker. Keep that 🏒 on the 🧊
Robertson can also have worn tips sharpened and reshaped in seconds on the bench grinder. Gives you many more years from a worn out red Robbie!
@@davidworks7758 Torx would be better for any application, but when you're an outlet manufacturer and have two options of 'make an outlet that requires the customer to use a Torx screwdriver only' and 'make an outlet that could be mounted with any widespread Philips, slotted or Robertson screwdriver' the choice is obvious.
I live in the Netherlands, and I have a Stanley 64-961 for years now and never new why it existed. Now I know, but we have different sockets for electric work but the screws I do recognise. Handy to know when to use the Stanley Robertson tip 1
The right slotted screwdriver is a fine choice IMO. None of the industrial Electricians I worked with used anything else to wire outlets of any kind. TBT, that tiny little thing in the video isn't the right one : it's too thin AND too narrow AND it's not insulated.
It is the right one.
As a Canadian electrician when I buy a product that comes with Philips or slot installation screws I throw them out and use Robertson. To our American friends, try it, you'll like it. I haven't seen an ECX but it looks promising. I am happy to see that they are finally catching on there for construction screws. They stay on the screwdriver, even upside down.
I recently assembled most of a wooden swing set using a Phillips screwdriver on that type of screw, until it dawned on me that I could use a square bit. What a difference!
i just use my hands
As a retired Canadian electrician, I love Robertson head screws. Unfortunatly when driving the multi head screws in recepticles, they usually strip the screw head before applying sufficient torque.
Those US wallsocket looks pretty scary in comparison to the European Schuko -Dutch and -German 230VAC wallsocket with push-in terminals for solid core wires...no screwdriver needed.
US wall sockets also have push-in terminals as well as screw-on terminals.
I can only speak for Germany, but here; Robertson srews are _really_ rarely used anywhere. The standard is Phillips in most electrical devices or, sadly, quite exotic proprietary screws.
That ECX looks really nice, but specific to these screw heads found mostly on electrical outlets it seems. For us in Canada though we all carry a full set of Robertson screwdrivers and bits all the time so that's an easy choice.
I still can't understand why Philips and slotted screws are still so widespread today. Have we not all suffered enough from stripped screw heads? And what about all those bruised and skinned knuckles? It's baffling to say the least.
There is one important application for slotted screws, which is anything you are going to paint over. Slots are much easier to clean out than any other screw type. This is why they are often used in the marine industry for access panels that may be covered with two pot catalysed paint. The trick is to use a proper old school manual impact driver to get them moving again.
I am a big fan of Robertson otherwise.
Every time I put something together or fix something, I always swap out crap screws with Torx screws. Saves me so much hassle.
Henry Ford is the reason why Robertson isn't widespread.
@@benoitverret6722 Is he also the reason for the Fahrenheit scale? Maybe we can blame him for that one too! LOL. A.J. Jacobs has a great bit on Fahrenheit in his book, "The Know-It-All". Definitely worth checking out.
Considering I’m about to change out an outlet and two switches, this couldn’t be timed better. Thank you!
It makes no difference mate. Just don't use too much force😂
After watching your videos and others on the combo bit I finally picked me up a Klein ratcheting screw driver that came with the combo bit and some ecx bits for my M12 drills and I have to say I’m impressed after installing some switches in my house.
Hey! I just discovered your videos a few weeks ago and have watched quite a few of them now. The very first one I watched was one where you mentioned using the Milwaukee ECX - I had never seen this before. It's a game changer!!! I went that same afternoon to my local hardware store but they did not carry it, so I found one on Amazon and received it the next day. The one I got is actually a Klein 15-in-1 ratcheting that includes the ECX #1 and #2. I am in the middle of replacing all of our outlets and switches and I cannot believe how amazingly perfect this bit works - for the past 20 years or so I have been using a combo of Phillips and flathead to get best results.
***Bonus: it ALSO is perfect for doorknob screws!
THANK YOU for introducing me to my new favorite tool!!!
Awesome, thanks for the feedback Beth. I didn't know about the doorknob tip 👍
Do you have a link?
@@EverydayHomeRepairs - well the #1 combo bit was perfect for all the doorknob replacements I just did at my daughter's new house, but they weren't Schlage or Kwikset (I will provide an update if/when I find out the brand) - I just changed a few knobs at my house and they were just straight Phillips. I do wiring far more than doorknobs so doesn't matter much. I love ratcheting drivers and having lots of bits to swap out and this particular handle is super comfortable for me and the bit storage in the handle does NOT unscrew while using! - so I'm still in love with it :)
Excellent video. Yes, the #1square or ECX are the best to use. However, I have used a JIS +2 screwdriver & it appears to fit perfectly. It doesn’t “cam out” like a regular Philips. I use JIS screwdrivers on all my bicycle building projects- Japanese made derailleurs (such as Shimano ) have adjustment screws and these screws are made for JIS screwdriver bits. Asian autos also use JIS fasteners for many of the dashboard mounting screws.
Yeah it's a real shame we done replace Philips with JIS, it's a far superior design, but similar enough that people wouldn't need to replace all their Philips tools or hardware
Not sure what the torque specs are for a receptacle. But, I have never had issue using the #2 Phillips. In fact this was the entire purpose for the invention of the phillips drive. Factory workers kept breaking off screws with slot and hex tips. So, factory owners wanted a dummy proof drive that would skip the bolt rather than break it off when using air powered tools. So, it seems fitting to use a drive style when the proper torque is(seemingly) achieved without the risk of damaging a device.
First off, I love Robertson screws because it really does take a lot of the effort out of driving them into substrate. using a cordless drill, most of the energy in driving in a philips screw can sometimes be just the sheer amount of force required to keep the bit from camming out and ruining the screwhead.
I knew an electrician that carried a pair of well worn Klein linesman pliers, and a large flat-bladed screwdriver. He could rough out holes in drywall for boxes, tighten conduit locknuts, and pretty much do almost all manner of residential electric with those 2 tools. He would gingerly touch wires to test them, relying on shot nerves and calloused fingers to take the edge off of the ~110v signaling his internal AC detector
I'm not saying its the right way to do it, but.... it worked for him for 30 years. Then again, he had a huge drinking problem and 3 ex-wives (one which shot him, but they still talk) so maybe he wasn't the most "normal" electrician.
I do recall an apprentice worker using a "square drive" as its called around here, and breaking a lot of the cheap plastic outlets because he was using a cordless impact and the square drive doesn't really cam out like a phillips (read : Does not cam out at all)
Nah three ex wives one of which shot him sounds like exactly the typical electrician at 30 years in the trade.
Every trade has specialty tools for the guy that does it for a living. For me, the Phillips worked fine for me when I did my renovation and it was already in my tool box. Take your time to make sure it's tight and right and you won't end up with a tool in your box you only use once every ten years. There are some projects that just can't be done without a particular tool and for those I bite the bullet and buy it, this isn't one of them
almost no electrician uses combination bits for terminating lol
@@jordanadams5902 i use them for panel covers, for commercial roughs its usful as hell cause all the new screws on 4x4 boxes and its mountings use a combo bit. have a screwdriver and and impact bits
I'm a US electrician and most use slotted for receptacles, though I'll use a Philips to start and a slotted to finish. If I'm doing many receptacles, I will flip my 11 in 1 screwdriver to Robertson as it is superior. Everyone, using a Philips only for this does not allow for the torque needed. You will sooner or later have issues if you don't torque a termination down appropriately.
Wow. I can't wait to introduce th to my colleagues We were p mo give you free raon to talk at my next party...🤔
I am amazed at the most serious issue in this video: The Phillips screwdriver has no business here at all for the simplest of reasons - the screwhead is not Phillips - it is a combo of Robertson (slightly tapered square) and flat blade (straight slot) and NOTHING else.
The Phillips screwdriver would only be considered here by people who typically use a totally incorrect screwdriver on screwheads.
Considered by people who think there are only two types of household screwdriver: Philips and flathead. Any other weird screws (like Torx) are for proprietary tech that is trying to keep you out.
I remember the first time I saw a square hole in a screw was when I bought my first house, and I thought how the hell am I gonna unscrew this extremely stripped Philips screw? That’s when I noticed it wasn’t damaged at all, and then googled “square screwdriver” and found it.
Now I see the value of the square bit, but I had to discover it on my own. My parents didn’t expose me to this during my time living with them.
I think the vast majority of people (in the US at least) simply never learned that anything other than Philips and Flat exist. And even if they know that others exist, they might not recognize one in the wild.
It's cut for straight, Robertson, and Phillips. The head is cut with two crossing slots and then deeper down is where the Robertson driver engages. If it wasn't meant for Phillips, then the crossed slot wouldn't be necessary. That crossing slot is actually what obscures the fact that a Robertson bit works in there. If you didn't have that crossing slot, you'd see two sharp corners across from each other.
I'm shocked 😂 at that outlet, exposed terminals just aren't allowed in the UK. If you but a set of vde screwdrivers, you get all the correct ones
I've always used a Philips. I did not know that the terminal was designed for a Robertson! And, I never knew about the ECS. thank you!
The story behind why the Robertson never caught on in the US until recently is an interesting one. The Canadian who invented it refused to give up the patient on it to any American. And he held it until he died. At which point shortly after it expired and saw wider adoption. But in Canada they have become the most common screw. They come in 3 formats 1 2 3. 2 or (Red Robertson) being the most common and 1 (Green Robertson) being the next most common.
There is also tiny - 00 (orange), small - 0 (yellow), large - (brown)