I use the Term "Ramp Angle" throughout this video. The proper term should be "Delta Angle". Don't worry about the words, what is important is the skiing and how different equipment setups can effect the way you move on the snow. Cheers!
Ranp angle is just one element of a personl setup algorythem. I have played with this oin my race quver for some time before i settled in .I mesure boot board angle as part of the setup. Pesonaly my boot boards are 3.7 deg and my bindings are 1.6 deg for a total ramp of 5.3 degs for SL.s and 5 degs for my GS's My Inital toe stack height from base is 42mm about 46 to47mm heal.Got a size 13 street paw in a 28.5 monda Ramp iangle ideal wiil vary with boot sole length. In past , tried racing with even or high toe (throttle),intiation (top of turn )was easy but bottom slippy and could get late With High toe somtimes couldn't get Fwd fast enough for next gate Agrrr . Sun Valley Masters Saw your SV vid with Taco.(and your fam) We're both NE ski rats ! Liked you analy of Ryder S ,a SV nugget . Keep dem vids 'a comming
I have been testing and adjusting ramp angles for years on myself and on the ski racers I have coached. To adjust the heel height vs the toe height (one way or the other) can have profound affects on skiing. Canting deals with lateral balance, while heel lifts (or toe lifts) deal with fore/aft balance. The way I have always tested is by on snow experimentation, just like you are doing in this video. I usually start with shims or lifts made out of hard rubber material about 1/8" (actually 5/32') thick, which are placed upon the toe plate or heel plate; and the racer steps in. Sometimes a little duct tape helps to hold the shim in place. Not optimal as far as safety, but for testing purposes only for a few runs. Never had any problems with anyone in over 30+ years. This allows for testing of many different setups, quickly and easily. Once the favored setup is decided upon, then shims are screwed down under the toe or heel of the bindings. Different ski boots have different ramp angles inside the boot. Different ski boots have different forward lean built into the boot. Different bindings have different ramp angles (delta). Different binding models made by the same binding company have different angles. People have differences in the ratio of their femur and tibia lengths. People have differences in their ankle flexion. These numerous variables all affect fore/aft balance. On snow testing is the only way I know to improve it. I would stay away from anybody who thinks they can perform some kind of static test in a ski shop. I place the lifts on the athletes' bindings, have them ski on them, and give me their feed back. Most can tell a difference immediately, either positively or negatively. Some can't tell a difference until I put on 2 lifts. Some like one lift, but not two. I observe, but the reaction of the skier or athlete is most important. This testing can be done with even the youngest racers. You know you have the adjustment right when you go to take the shim setup away, and the athlete says "no." Testing in somewhat firm to firm conditions is best, if possible, before committing to underneath binding installation. I have only had to go back and modify my under binding installation a couple of times in years, based upon my observation of the racer's performance. My observation over the years has been that the highest percentage of racers ski their best and have faster times with a heel lift of some kind added. Some do best with no change. Back in the 80's and 90's I used to find people benefitting from raising the toe. Maybe bindings were made with a higher ramp angle (delta) (higher in the heels) back then. But I have not found raising the toe to benefit anyone in quite a while (though I still test it). I have experienced personally a 2 second difference on a 25 second GS course, from zero delta (slowest) to 3/8" higher in the heel (fastest). I have had a racer in a practice slalom course use one heel lift and take a second off his time, and come back up the hill smiling at how much better it felt. I then put a second heel lift under his heel and he took another 1 1/2 seconds off his time. He came back up "beaming" and the other other coaches were in amazement of his run. I have had other racers who could never seem to get their skis over on edge, who had been canted and received numerous instructions by several coaches in ski technique to address their inability. I put a heel lift under their heel and in one run, problem solved! All of a sudden their knees and skis popped right over. So changing fore/aft balance (or using lifts -toe or heel) can also affect lateral balance or movement. Everyone and their equipment setup is different. Other coaches talk and drill their athletes frequently about athletic stance and getting forward, etc. I test fore/aft balance and correct with lifts (usually heel lifts) under the bindings and hardly ever talk about such things. My athletes are already in balance.
Refreshing to see a side to side movement analysis playing with different equipment set ups. Thank you Ski Dad for providing this awesome content. I look forward to each video you put out because I know it will be looking at skiing from an honest perspective where you willing to explore what is actually happening rather than repeat the same old stuff we always hear from other videos out there.
Really nice insights.😊 I would like to add that it is a question of finding a platform that supports your body's natural balance and foot's ability to keep even replaced pressure.. especially being able to drive energy down through the sweet spot of your foot. Once you have that balance right you need to look into cuff forward lean to help put pressure on the front of the ski. PS I agree with another commentor that the right term to use in the video woukd be binding delta angle. Ramp angle is normally referred to being the ski boot board Ramp angle in the industry.
Great video! Great testing too. I tested how binding location affected my carved turns. It's easier to move the boot temperaily than unscrew bindings and drill more holes. I moved both front and rear bindings forward... three stops forward example. Thats how i tested different binding positions.
Nice content- we're big fans of this kind of exploration. As another viewer commented, modifying fore aft position can have similar (but not identical) beneficial impacts upon ski response-- especially in system skis where shims are not an option. We'll bet you cover this elsewhere, but viewers might be interested in understanding how boot sole length affects delta (e.g. short soles=greater ramp), and thereby come to understand why two skiers on the same ski, (but with different size boots), might have dramatically different ski performance. Thanks for sharing.
This smaller boots get effected more thing doesn’t strike me as a big deal. If you buy a shim kit you can test the setup for yourself and see which one you like. More toe rise will still feel like more toe rise. Like I said in the video I did not care what the #’s were and that should be everyone’s attitude. If it’s that big of a sticking point you can go out and buy some 1mm plastic and cut the shapes for yourself to dial in on that perfect ramp
Great vid. I got a pair of tyrolia protectors last year and I was really surprised by the ramp angle, heel is really high, really uncomfortable compared to what I'm used to.
Top notch quality as always. Curious if Mount point works much the same? Moving forward puts your knees closer to tips and back does opposite. Would this accomplish the same thing?
Finding out what a boot ramp angle is should be easier. Why is it not on the retail box. It ciuld be changed with a different base board but a new boot could advise what it is in the ski shop. Cuff angle is usually specified. Delta angle on the binding is easy to measure with a ruler when the boot is fitted in the binding. But ramp angle inside the boot?
Distance from knee to tip has nothing to do with it, it is where the center of mass is balanced over the ski and also how the range of motion in the ankle is affected by increasing and decreasing the effective ramp angle and forward lean of the boot. When you increase the delta angle (positive delta, heel treadle higher toe piece treadle) the effective boot forward lean increases and the ramp angle in the boot increases, hence closing down angle range of motion and increasing ball of foot pressure at the start of the turn. Lots of edge and it tends to stay that way until the bottom of the turn where the center of mass tends to move back to the tail and the ski will pop hard. In WC racing, this is a good thing if you can handle all of the energy, but can be exhausting if you cannot keep up with it. With a flat or negative delta angle, (heal treadle at or below the toe piece treadle) the effective forward lean of the boot and ramp angle internally is reduced, therefore the ankle range of motion is more open and ball of foot pressure is reduced. The skier therefore skis in 'taller' more open stance which makes using the ankle range of motion more progressive and can make the tip of the ski feel easier to engage in a controlled way. But, a more open ankle range of motion will make the turn radius longer and more round, which on a race course can mean less edge response when you need it. Top racers try and test with all of these angles: binding delta, boot ramp angle, and boot forward lean to find the optimal position for the discipline they are competing in. The most common combination is reduced boot ramp angle, higher boot forward lean, and lower binding delta angles. With that said, some racers prefer completely different angle combinations than the most common because the timing clock does not lie.
Wondering if you have ramp angle built into your boots. I saw in the video of you and your wife in Austria that you had some kind of heel shim in your boot.I
With alll due respect, you are changeing biding delta angle. Ramp angle is the angke of the platform inside the boot. Difference is, when you are changeing the dwlta angle, you are also affecting the boot forward lean. On the other hand, when you are changeing ramp angke, that is not the case.
Yes the cuff forward lean has an effect and may be the most notable difference in the performance, however if you were to simply change the forward lean on the boot you would also be adjusting your ankle flex in the boot which you may not want. So if you like your ankle flex position but want a different forward lean you need some shims
You do have to work on your word choice. "That tip is bending tight". What the heck does that mean? could mean any of 10 different things, you can't say stuff like that and assume people know what you mean. Explain, decipher, decode what you say when you use "ski jargon" words, don't assume people know those expressions, most don't. I been skiing for 30 yrs. and have no idea what you mean by that. Your overall video is too good to have it spoiled by such a basic thing, so fix that and you'll have a winner.
I can totally appreciate your comment. In general, I love ski Dad‘s videos but sometimes I find myself wondering what the heck he means by certain phrases and I just wish I could understand lol I know he is a true master and respect the contact he puts out for sure!! If I had to give constructive feedback, I would ask him to specify what he sees happening and at what phase in the turn we’re looking at. I think he mostly covers this stuff but sometimes a little more specific wording would help.
I use the Term "Ramp Angle" throughout this video. The proper term should be "Delta Angle". Don't worry about the words, what is important is the skiing and how different equipment setups can effect the way you move on the snow. Cheers!
Ranp angle is just one element of a personl setup algorythem. I have played with this oin my race quver for some time before i settled in .I mesure boot board angle as part of the setup. Pesonaly my boot boards are 3.7 deg and my bindings are 1.6 deg for a total ramp of 5.3 degs for SL.s and 5 degs for my GS's My Inital toe stack height from base is 42mm about 46 to47mm heal.Got a size 13 street paw in a 28.5 monda Ramp iangle ideal wiil vary with boot sole length. In past , tried racing with even or high toe (throttle),intiation (top of turn )was easy but bottom slippy and could get late With High toe somtimes couldn't get Fwd fast enough for next gate Agrrr . Sun Valley Masters Saw your SV vid with Taco.(and your fam) We're both NE ski rats ! Liked you analy of Ryder S ,a SV nugget . Keep dem vids 'a comming
I have been testing and adjusting ramp angles for years on myself and on the ski racers I have coached. To adjust the heel height vs the toe height (one way or the other) can have profound affects on skiing. Canting deals with lateral balance, while heel lifts (or toe lifts) deal with fore/aft balance. The way I have always tested is by on snow experimentation, just like you are doing in this video. I usually start with shims or lifts made out of hard rubber material about 1/8" (actually 5/32') thick, which are placed upon the toe plate or heel plate; and the racer steps in. Sometimes a little duct tape helps to hold the shim in place. Not optimal as far as safety, but for testing purposes only for a few runs. Never had any problems with anyone in over 30+ years. This allows for testing of many different setups, quickly and easily. Once the favored setup is decided upon, then shims are screwed down under the toe or heel of the bindings.
Different ski boots have different ramp angles inside the boot. Different ski boots have different forward lean built into the boot. Different bindings have different ramp angles (delta). Different binding models made by the same binding company have different angles. People have differences in the ratio of their femur and tibia lengths. People have differences in their ankle flexion. These numerous variables all affect fore/aft balance. On snow testing is the only way I know to improve it. I would stay away from anybody who thinks they can perform some kind of static test in a ski shop.
I place the lifts on the athletes' bindings, have them ski on them, and give me their feed back. Most can tell a difference immediately, either positively or negatively. Some can't tell a difference until I put on 2 lifts. Some like one lift, but not two. I observe, but the reaction of the skier or athlete is most important. This testing can be done with even the youngest racers. You know you have the adjustment right when you go to take the shim setup away, and the athlete says "no." Testing in somewhat firm to firm conditions is best, if possible, before committing to underneath binding installation. I have only had to go back and modify my under binding installation a couple of times in years, based upon my observation of the racer's performance.
My observation over the years has been that the highest percentage of racers ski their best and have faster times with a heel lift of some kind added. Some do best with no change. Back in the 80's and 90's I used to find people benefitting from raising the toe. Maybe bindings were made with a higher ramp angle (delta) (higher in the heels) back then. But I have not found raising the toe to benefit anyone in quite a while (though I still test it). I have experienced personally a 2 second difference on a 25 second GS course, from zero delta (slowest) to 3/8" higher in the heel (fastest). I have had a racer in a practice slalom course use one heel lift and take a second off his time, and come back up the hill smiling at how much better it felt. I then put a second heel lift under his heel and he took another 1 1/2 seconds off his time. He came back up "beaming" and the other other coaches were in amazement of his run. I have had other racers who could never seem to get their skis over on edge, who had been canted and received numerous instructions by several coaches in ski technique to address their inability. I put a heel lift under their heel and in one run, problem solved! All of a sudden their knees and skis popped right over. So changing fore/aft balance (or using lifts -toe or heel) can also affect lateral balance or movement. Everyone and their equipment setup is different.
Other coaches talk and drill their athletes frequently about athletic stance and getting forward, etc. I test fore/aft balance and correct with lifts (usually heel lifts) under the bindings and hardly ever talk about such things. My athletes are already in balance.
We appreciate you going through all the work and hassle to replace shims to do this video. THANK YOU. Very, very informative.
Refreshing to see a side to side movement analysis playing with different equipment set ups. Thank you Ski Dad for providing this awesome content. I look forward to each video you put out because I know it will be looking at skiing from an honest perspective where you willing to explore what is actually happening rather than repeat the same old stuff we always hear from other videos out there.
Really nice insights.😊 I would like to add that it is a question of finding a platform that supports your body's natural balance and foot's ability to keep even replaced pressure.. especially being able to drive energy down through the sweet spot of your foot.
Once you have that balance right you need to look into cuff forward lean to help put pressure on the front of the ski.
PS
I agree with another commentor that the right term to use in the video woukd be binding delta angle. Ramp angle is normally referred to being the ski boot board Ramp angle in the industry.
Great video! Great testing too. I tested how binding location affected my carved turns. It's easier to move the boot temperaily than unscrew bindings and drill more holes. I moved both front and rear bindings forward... three stops forward example. Thats how i tested different binding positions.
thanks for the video, your content is always appreciated
Loved the video! Super informative
welcome back
shoutout from Ridgewood Queens!
Ahahaha who is this ??? I am also in Ridgewood or close enough ..
Nice content- we're big fans of this kind of exploration. As another viewer commented, modifying fore aft position can have similar (but not identical) beneficial impacts upon ski response-- especially in system skis where shims are not an option. We'll bet you cover this elsewhere, but viewers might be interested in understanding how boot sole length affects delta (e.g. short soles=greater ramp), and thereby come to understand why two skiers on the same ski, (but with different size boots), might have dramatically different ski performance. Thanks for sharing.
This smaller boots get effected more thing doesn’t strike me as a big deal. If you buy a shim kit you can test the setup for yourself and see which one you like.
More toe rise will still feel like more toe rise. Like I said in the video I did not care what the #’s were and that should be everyone’s attitude.
If it’s that big of a sticking point you can go out and buy some 1mm plastic and cut the shapes for yourself to dial in on that perfect ramp
Great vid. I got a pair of tyrolia protectors last year and I was really surprised by the ramp angle, heel is really high, really uncomfortable compared to what I'm used to.
Winter is coming..... the season finish tomorrow here at Corralco Chile
I did a race camp in Corralco 9 years ago. LMK if you need me to come down there again. I loved it!
Great video regarding the effects of Delta angle. Could you do a separate and complimentary video on the effects of Ramp angle?? Thank you!
boot fitters and footbeds
- some I used put ramp angle
Top notch quality as always. Curious if Mount point works much the same? Moving forward puts your knees closer to tips and back does opposite. Would this accomplish the same thing?
its not the same.
Fingers crossed I shoot that video in early December 👍
Thank you for the video
Just for carving (not racing) what in your opinion should be the optimal set up?
I don’t know about optimal but I like the way the Marker Royal family of bindings ski
Finding out what a boot ramp angle is should be easier. Why is it not on the retail box. It ciuld be changed with a different base board but a new boot could advise what it is in the ski shop. Cuff angle is usually specified. Delta angle on the binding is easy to measure with a ruler when the boot is fitted in the binding. But ramp angle inside the boot?
Distance from knee to tip has nothing to do with it, it is where the center of mass is balanced over the ski and also how the range of motion in the ankle is affected by increasing and decreasing the effective ramp angle and forward lean of the boot. When you increase the delta angle (positive delta, heel treadle higher toe piece treadle) the effective boot forward lean increases and the ramp angle in the boot increases, hence closing down angle range of motion and increasing ball of foot pressure at the start of the turn. Lots of edge and it tends to stay that way until the bottom of the turn where the center of mass tends to move back to the tail and the ski will pop hard. In WC racing, this is a good thing if you can handle all of the energy, but can be exhausting if you cannot keep up with it. With a flat or negative delta angle, (heal treadle at or below the toe piece treadle) the effective forward lean of the boot and ramp angle internally is reduced, therefore the ankle range of motion is more open and ball of foot pressure is reduced. The skier therefore skis in 'taller' more open stance which makes using the ankle range of motion more progressive and can make the tip of the ski feel easier to engage in a controlled way. But, a more open ankle range of motion will make the turn radius longer and more round, which on a race course can mean less edge response when you need it. Top racers try and test with all of these angles: binding delta, boot ramp angle, and boot forward lean to find the optimal position for the discipline they are competing in. The most common combination is reduced boot ramp angle, higher boot forward lean, and lower binding delta angles. With that said, some racers prefer completely different angle combinations than the most common because the timing clock does not lie.
All I did was adjust my setup and tell the world what I thought.
Wondering if you have ramp angle built into your boots. I saw in the video of you and your wife in Austria that you had some kind of heel shim in your boot.I
Those are boot boards. You can trim them to change the ramp angle, however doing so effects the fit of the boot.
During this test did you have any ramp angle built into your boots?
My boot board is trimmed however I kept the factory angles
All boots have the heel higher than the toe
So, any idea what binding delta angle are most world cup racers using for slalom and for gs? Is there any consistency?
When did you film this?
With alll due respect, you are changeing biding delta angle. Ramp angle is the angke of the platform inside the boot. Difference is, when you are changeing the dwlta angle, you are also affecting the boot forward lean. On the other hand, when you are changeing ramp angke, that is not the case.
Went to make same comment at the 20 second mark but you got it.
Is it possible that the actual cuff forward lean change
(caused by the delta angle change) leads these different results?
Yes the cuff forward lean has an effect and may be the most notable difference in the performance, however if you were to simply change the forward lean on the boot you would also be adjusting your ankle flex in the boot which you may not want.
So if you like your ankle flex position but want a different forward lean you need some shims
@@skidadTV good point thanks!
my ramp angle is knee to ski
The shorter your boot the more pronounced the ramp will be.
Yep. A small footed person will notice the difference much more pronounced than a big footer.
You didn't try a plate in the back and none in the front? Isn't that how womens specific skis used to be set up to help centre their body balance?
One in the back and zero in the front was the first setup
You do have to work on your word choice. "That tip is bending tight". What the heck does that mean? could mean any of 10 different things, you can't say stuff like that and assume people know what you mean. Explain, decipher, decode what you say when you use "ski jargon" words, don't assume people know those expressions, most don't. I been skiing for 30 yrs. and have no idea what you mean by that. Your overall video is too good to have it spoiled by such a basic thing, so fix that and you'll have a winner.
I can totally appreciate your comment. In general, I love ski Dad‘s videos but sometimes I find myself wondering what the heck he means by certain phrases and I just wish I could understand lol I know he is a true master and respect the contact he puts out for sure!! If I had to give constructive feedback, I would ask him to specify what he sees happening and at what phase in the turn we’re looking at. I think he mostly covers this stuff but sometimes a little more specific wording would help.