The invict Diomedes, arguably the greatest achean hero and of the Trojan war. He and Hector was perhaps the nearest of ideal of medieval chivalry in that war.
Achilles is still the most celebrated from the tail, and Hector is also portrayed as very honorable, but he is under the thumb of his city / subsumed his ego for the greater good and is unable to achieve eternal glory like Achilles. The reason the Greeks valued the Agon and competition so highly is they saw it as the ultimate form of good, and the kind of raw egotism Achilles had, to deny his king because he was not given his war bride, is a personality trait most often seen in Greek aristocracy of the iron age which created many great characters and geniuses.
@@titisuteu Achilles was right to refuse to fight. Agamemnon had stolen his war bride, and the suffering that caused is likened to a naturally disaster and compared to Apollo's rage (Λένιν). There's a reason the Greeks loved Achilles and used so many Greek words to describe him as the best of the Achaeans. Hector really isn't a patriot in the modern sense, because he would literally own troy and he was defending his assets for glory as well.
Well thus channel has started out as Bronze Age Greece based and will definitely remain so in the future! There are many more interesting things about Mycenae that will be covered here!
@@durrangodsgrief6503 Yeap. You have to choose to be offended. And entire nations were at stake over a girl. Although what briseis really is is territory and the illiad compacts the entire war into a ton of symbolism. Very prevalent in ancient indoeuropean myth. Achilles would have wanted to reign over doing the dirty work. Agamemnon said no so achilles refused to conquer over lack of benefit. Meanwhile, Diomedes sunk the entire hittite empire. Read more
@@richardwhite6062Achilles was right not to fight because of his being denied his war bride. That kind of egotism you see in the Iliad was a celebrated personality trait of Achilles, and it was Achilles who was most celebrated for this reason. That kind of egotism is why Greece produced so many fascinating characters during the early iron age.
It's nice you included Asine on your first map. When people discuss the Trojan War most of the time this city is forgotten about, but it is mentioned in the Illiad. In 2001 I went to Greece to go and see Mycenae. I stayed in Tolon, not far from Nafplion. When I looked on the map one day I was surprised to see a Mycenaean citadel, just about 2Km from Tolon. It was Asine. I remember climbing the steps up to the top and seeing the view, It was fantastic. And all around were the scant remains of a Mycenaean palace just completely forgotten about. When I explored a little I came across the remains of a room, and in the corner of the room was a stone bowl set into the floor, with a hole in it. And I knew this had to be the ancient toilet. There is a similar feature both at Mycenae and Tiryns. I think there can be no better human link to the people of the Late Bronze Age, than discovering their most intimate room. How many Mycenaean heroes visited this room to do their ablutions? Agamemnon? Menelaus? THESEUS??? Mind blowing. Asine is well worth a look round if you are in the area. When I went it was free.
Hey, my friend, WanaxTV, are you going to do a "Later Life of Diomedes"? I'm thinking post-Troy of course. I have imagined my own version in my novel, *The Diomedeia*, but, similar to the myths, he does end up as a founder of cities in Apulia in southern Italy, and symbolically becomes a god in his old age.
according to the work of the Iliad and the Little Iliad, the great hero was Diomedes. He was the favorite hero of the goddess Athena. He killed many important Trojans and wounded the gods Aphrodite, Apollo, Ares.he seriously injured the hero Αenia who was saved with the help of the goddess Aphrodite.He also tried to kill Hector three times, but he was saved by the intervention of the god Zeus. When Achilles killed a relative in his anger, Diomedes was not afraid to duel him to get revenge. After the old Nestor, he was considered the wisest of the Greeks.Hector was a second class hero. Twice he was in danger of being killed by Ajax and was saved by divine intervention. Patroclus was superior to Hector. He would have conquered Troy if the god Apollo did not stop him. The god Apollo was the one who killed Patroclus and Hector simply gave him the final blow. But Hector was the man who loved his family and country and sacrificed himself for it. Trojan heroes we place Achilles, Diomedes, Ajax in the first class. Achilles and Ajax were invulnerable except for one point. In the second class was Patroclus. In the third class were Hector, Odysseus and Menelaus.
I heard there's a passage in the Iliad where Diomedes is sort of being taken over or posessed by Athena who gives him tremendous strength and also seems to control his movements. There is some peculiarity to this episode because I think it is a unique experience in the Trojan War, can't recall that any other person got so "intimate" with the gods.
Yes, this is the first major battle sequence, and Athena basically gives Diomedes the strength of the Gods, and protecting from harm, even against Ares himself.
@@gregorynixonAUTHOR Thank you, in the story version I read that was also the case. I was confused by a tv animation series in which they understood that Athena basically remote controlled the hero. And you actually wrote a book about Diomedes?
Diomedes is my favorite hero of the Iliad. Love this episode!
The invict Diomedes, arguably the greatest achean hero and of the Trojan war. He and Hector was perhaps the nearest of ideal of medieval chivalry in that war.
Achilles is still the most celebrated from the tail, and Hector is also portrayed as very honorable, but he is under the thumb of his city / subsumed his ego for the greater good and is unable to achieve eternal glory like Achilles. The reason the Greeks valued the Agon and competition so highly is they saw it as the ultimate form of good, and the kind of raw egotism Achilles had, to deny his king because he was not given his war bride, is a personality trait most often seen in Greek aristocracy of the iron age which created many great characters and geniuses.
@@Ian-yf7uf Dumb take. Hector was a patriot. Achilles was an eternal psychopath. Glory my a...s
@@titisuteu Achilles was right to refuse to fight. Agamemnon had stolen his war bride, and the suffering that caused is likened to a naturally disaster and compared to Apollo's rage (Λένιν). There's a reason the Greeks loved Achilles and used so many Greek words to describe him as the best of the Achaeans. Hector really isn't a patriot in the modern sense, because he would literally own troy and he was defending his assets for glory as well.
They need to make a movie about this guy!
Super subject! 🤩2 weeks ago I was in Mycenae with my camera and took some videos. Bronze Age Greece is my favourite!
❤❤❤❤❤
@polbrem polbrem 💗👍
Well thus channel has started out as Bronze Age Greece based and will definitely remain so in the future! There are many more interesting things about Mycenae that will be covered here!
Diomedes (< Diοs (n. Zeus) + medos (think, advise), "he who has a divine mind, consulted by Zeus")
My hero. :) Most underrated and always gets a shaft despite being next to Achilleus himself and being a mortal granted apotheosis.
Hang on, Diomedes became a god eventually?
@@Crafty_Spirit Yes.
Saved by athena. Never died.
And he didnt bitch out over petty crap like achilles.
@@richardwhite6062 yeah being disrespected and insulted is petty
@@durrangodsgrief6503 Yeap. You have to choose to be offended.
And entire nations were at stake over a girl.
Although what briseis really is is territory and the illiad compacts the entire war into a ton of symbolism. Very prevalent in ancient indoeuropean myth.
Achilles would have wanted to reign over doing the dirty work. Agamemnon said no so achilles refused to conquer over lack of benefit.
Meanwhile, Diomedes sunk the entire hittite empire.
Read more
@@richardwhite6062Achilles was right not to fight because of his being denied his war bride. That kind of egotism you see in the Iliad was a celebrated personality trait of Achilles, and it was Achilles who was most celebrated for this reason. That kind of egotism is why Greece produced so many fascinating characters during the early iron age.
This is one of my favorite stories ever. I don’t get tired of hearing it.
It's nice you included Asine on your first map. When people discuss the Trojan War most of the time this city is forgotten about, but it is mentioned in the Illiad. In 2001 I went to Greece to go and see Mycenae. I stayed in Tolon, not far from Nafplion. When I looked on the map one day I was surprised to see a Mycenaean citadel, just about 2Km from Tolon. It was Asine. I remember climbing the steps up to the top and seeing the view, It was fantastic. And all around were the scant remains of a Mycenaean palace just completely forgotten about. When I explored a little I came across the remains of a room, and in the corner of the room was a stone bowl set into the floor, with a hole in it. And I knew this had to be the ancient toilet. There is a similar feature both at Mycenae and Tiryns. I think there can be no better human link to the people of the Late Bronze Age, than discovering their most intimate room. How many Mycenaean heroes visited this room to do their ablutions? Agamemnon? Menelaus? THESEUS??? Mind blowing.
Asine is well worth a look round if you are in the area. When I went it was free.
Very happy that you decided to make this
Me as well, one of my favorites
It was voted by our TH-cam community! I’m glad that Diomedes was the choice!
Hey, my friend, WanaxTV, are you going to do a "Later Life of Diomedes"? I'm thinking post-Troy of course. I have imagined my own version in my novel, *The Diomedeia*, but, similar to the myths, he does end up as a founder of cities in Apulia in southern Italy, and symbolically becomes a god in his old age.
It will be done eventually. 👍🏻
@@WanaxTVI’m going to be waiting for it.
the greatest Greek leader and warrior second only to Achilles. The only mortal who wounded two Olympian gods (Ares and Aphrodite).
Thank you
Appreciate it!!
The greatest. Achilles was noble, but naive. Diomedes excelled over him in virility and cunning, not just strength.
My middle name is diomedes
Thank you for making an great informative video! All the best
Your parents must have some culture about them!
AWESOME!! THANK YOU!
Where did you found this informations about diomedes?Can give some
07:08
👍👍👍
according to the work of the Iliad and the Little Iliad, the great hero was Diomedes. He was the favorite hero of the goddess Athena. He killed many important Trojans and wounded the gods Aphrodite, Apollo, Ares.he seriously injured the hero Αenia who was saved with the help of the goddess Aphrodite.He also tried to kill Hector three times, but he was saved by the intervention of the god Zeus. When Achilles killed a relative in his anger, Diomedes was not afraid to duel him to get revenge. After the old Nestor, he was considered the wisest of the Greeks.Hector was a second class hero. Twice he was in danger of being killed by Ajax and was saved by divine intervention. Patroclus was superior to Hector. He would have conquered Troy if the god Apollo did not stop him. The god Apollo was the one who killed Patroclus and Hector simply gave him the final blow. But Hector was the man who loved his family and country and sacrificed himself for it. Trojan heroes we place Achilles, Diomedes, Ajax in the first class. Achilles and Ajax were invulnerable except for one point. In the second class was Patroclus. In the third class were Hector, Odysseus and Menelaus.
I heard there's a passage in the Iliad where Diomedes is sort of being taken over or posessed by Athena who gives him tremendous strength and also seems to control his movements. There is some peculiarity to this episode because I think it is a unique experience in the Trojan War, can't recall that any other person got so "intimate" with the gods.
Yes, this is the first major battle sequence, and Athena basically gives Diomedes the strength of the Gods, and protecting from harm, even against Ares himself.
She inspires him, but does not "possess" him, i.e., take away his free will.
@@gregorynixonAUTHOR Thank you, in the story version I read that was also the case. I was confused by a tv animation series in which they understood that Athena basically remote controlled the hero. And you actually wrote a book about Diomedes?