Think your losing more efficiency through that pot than the cookers themselves,do a windmaster with a heat exchange, watch those numbers come right down
Yes, this is the issue. You can get almost JetBoil like efficiency from canister-top stoves, but you have to turn them right down, boil them slow and boil smaller volumes (less than 450ml) at a time.
Another great video thank you. I have both stoves as well and hike in the same area. For boiling water only the MSR Reactor however is hand down the most efficient stove in any sort of wind. 15 years later it’s still going strong.
I’ve had a Jetboil stove for 10+ years. Yes it’s heavier than the alternatives but it’s really efficient and boils water quickly in windy conditions. The piezo ignition has died but other than that that’s all I can fault. I only boil water and never cook with it. I’ve gone 6 days on one small 100gm canister and still had gas left over. It gets my #1 vote.
Started out with a JetBoil...broke in 3 months & got a refund. Bought a clone via AliExpress that lasted until I bought the Soto...& never turned back. Just prefer the reliability of the Japanese craftsmanship & still going strong 4 years later. Longest trail was 630miles so...
@@wishdarkstalkaz4050 Which jetboil? I have seen loads of the old ones last many many years, however there are few videos on here of the regulated ones failing. The fix was to disassemble the regulator and cut a piece of cotton like filter material off that had been clogged with fuel deposits. My jetboil zip has seen loads of use without issues, I also have a windmaster that’s great and recently bought a clone off of a site for £15 regulated like the windmaster (£45) and pot stands are interchangeable and it’s designed in Japan made in china will see how that goes.
I have the Soto, and my friend the mino mo, mini mo is better on gas, but it's correct that the Soto is far superior on simmer. Also, I have seen a review where using a titanium shroud with the Soto melts the piezo
Great review and it confirms what I have experienced. The neoprene cosy on the Jetboil combined with the flux ring under the pot and the burner head all work together to make the Jetboil more fuel efficient and windproof. My first Jetboild didn't have the Regulator Valve on it, so the last quarter of the canaster resulted in much longer cook times and lower heat output. Even my latest Minimo with the regulator valve has some reduced performance in the last quarter of the canaster, but significantly improved over the original one. I have been using my MSR Whisperlite more in windy conditions, even for freezedry food. Its heavier, but works well in strong winds and has constant heat output until the last drop of fuel.
Yep, you really can't go wrong with the whisperlite! I've had mine for 20 years now and it's still going strong. Don't use it as much as I used to but it still comes out a couple of times a year.
yup, fairly technical with lots of controlled experiments. Multiple video on stove efficiencies from pot size, wind tests, windscreens, and heat ex changers. well worth checking out
Love your videos. Have you viewed Gear Scpetics videos on the same topic? There’s a potential flaw in your methodology of running both stoves flat out. Minimo output is 6000BTU and Windmaster is 11000BTU. Flat out, the WM will produce ~2x so it’s unsurprising the fuel use is so much more but also reflected in boil times. Efficiency and pot size matters and the Evernew is a good size for the WM but when flat out, the WM probably pushes heat up the side - Gear Skeptic covered this. A Ti shield could be added to the WM for a few grams and still be hundreds of grams lighter than a Minimo and you have over 1 litre usable capacity - good if filter fails, no tabs. I always boil water with lid on and all of my friends do too. I sneak a peak to look for bubbles on the base and know it will boil in seconds when I see them. The test would be better with a thermocouple attached to a meter to imitate a lid on most of the boil. I’ve used a WM since 2018 with a Toaks 750 and a roll up Ti shield, typically with the same number of boils that you do. Most use has been week long Tasmania, VIC Alps etc at elevation. I run the flame to suit the pot base and get similar fuel economy to your Minimo experience.
I now have a Soto Windmaster paired with a Fire Maple Petrel G3 hx pot which is really impressive. I just did a comparison (in still air) boiling 400mls of water on the Minimo, MSR Windburner (my normal use stove) and the Soto/Fire Maple. The Minimo and Soto came to the boil within 5 seconds of each other, the Windburner quite a while later. The Minimo used 3.6gms of fuel, the Windburner 6.3gms and the Soto 5.5gms. I have already used the Soto in very gusty conditions and it was excellent. I have found the Minimo, while superb at gas economy, a real problem in windy conditions. So now, the Soto is my everyday stove. Suggest you try it with an hx pot, it should make quite a difference. You need the 3 leg support with it.
If you've boiled 750ml in 2 min 45 sec, they you've had the throttle wide open ...and that is why your efficiency is awful. Chasing the fastest boil will always dramatically reduce your efficiency. Repeat the test with the Windmaster, but dial it down to a medium-low heat, accept a longer boil time and your efficiency will go up significantly.
...also boiling 750ml in one go will reduce efficiency. Try boiling 2x 375 ml and your efficiency will go up significantly. The Windmaster is not a JetBoil, you need to stop asking it to work in the same way. Or admit you like the ease, convenience and efficiency of the JetBoil and just accept the pack weight is the price you pay.
The windmaster is a lot more powerful so will use more fuel at full, the MSR windburner is the way to go in most outdoor scenarios as wind will be involved, it’s like a jet boil with built in wind guard so will be even more economical than the jetboil.
@@ashab1 Sure, it's just heavy. The point is, you can get ultralight cannister top stoves to do the job with similar efficiency, you just have to turn em down.
Any brand will do? The closer it gets to freezing the worse butane performs. Hence the iso mix is important at zero and below. The alt, if you want to keep using a gas cylinder, is a Primus Express Spider that splutters initially in 0C conditions but once it gets going the heating coil over the burner keeps the gas flowing.
Yep, depends on the conditions, for the price you can get packs of 3-4 for Under $10, and one Canister for $20ish, but the thing most people need with Canisters is the flow valve and you can empty partially used into one before you discard. That said you can get adaptors to run both systems depending on the weather you need.
I am not sure you get the concept of BTU/h. Your minimo pulls out 6000 btu/ and the wind master 11000btu/hr. Not quite twice as much. Running your Soto lower and you will use less gas. Now because of the design of the jet boil, they can get away with fast boiling with half the output. But your numbers tell the story quite well. Wind master boiled faster for more fuel, bring it down and you will boil in the same time for about the same gas. Another thing, I have the smaller Soto, the amicus, light up, and turn on gas to gather maximum flame. Keeping opening the gas more don’t give you more flame but it burns more fuel. So your findings are as expected.
One thing I understand about the Windmaster, never open it full throttle, it is at maximum performance and gas efficiency at about three full turns, no more, that will give you better fuel efficiency and still fast boiling rates.
well, you did a great job comparing those 2, but you got confused with the results. Your tests showed that minimo burner under titanuim pot gives the same consumption as soto, but twice the boiling time. And that's no surprise, titanium has 12x less heat conductivity than aluminium, and it's twice as much heavier (due to it's strength, we need less titanium to make a pot, that's why it roughly the same weight). Another very important factor is a heat sink. Sooo, to do it right, you have to test them with identical pots. If you put heat sinked aluminium pot on the soto, you will see the same consumption with much better boiling time. Try something like FM petrel, it should fit
Nice practical test! I've had similar experiences. My old Titan Jetboil Sol Ti (unfortunately no longer manufactured) is ideal for one person and weighs 240g. I can manage with 100g of gas for 7 days.
The Windmaster Plus Minimo Pot wasn't a good result either as the pot was too narrow to fit the burner inside the base hence the flame was to far from the base. I have since been informed that firemaple do make a similar pot that would fit so that would be worth a try.
Thanks for the heads up. Was looking at the Windmaster for a through hike, but I'll stick with my old Kovea. Can usually get 10 or more days out of that boiling similar amounts of water.
Great review and exactly the info I was looking for - especially when it comes to longer trips - for an even lighter option how would the Jetboil Stash compare ?
I haven't used the stash but given it is a similar type of burner and pot support setup to the Windmaster, I don't know! If I end up using one i'll definately do a review!
Would be interested to see how it goes when you don’t turn in up as much and let it take the same time as the jetboil if it uses more or less than it did here
yes, out on the track we did do this. We had the Soto turned down while the others had their minimo on full tilt. We still went through more gas with the soto though.
Do love soto equipment the navigator cookset is brilliant and so is the windmaster 👌 Own a few jetboils aswell and they've always been solid, usually just take a Flash or zip if im only boiling water just easier to have an all in 1
Great video! By the way if you use the windmaster at a lower heat setting it will burn less fuel per boil. Those stock videos are a little weird btw. I'd skip them, you don't need them :)
This is a really good, thought-provoking review. I'm in the market for a new stove and was about to pull the trigger on the Soto Windmaster. I had yet to consider the Jetboil, even though I own an early Jetboil and have been a massive fan as a water-boiling device (in the right conditions). I have learned so much from comments left by viewers, too. I wasn't aware that earlier Jetboils weren't regulated, which explains the coughing and spluttering of my old JB, mainly when cold or low on gas. I was lured into a BRS titanium some years back, which taught me that the lightest isn't the best. Unregulated, the BRS let me down, and I carried a bag full of food around Snowdonia in winter I couldn't cook. The Soto sounds like a fine stove but a gas guzzler. Would it perform better if you stepped off the gas a bit and increased the boil time? I'm assuming the pot-to-stove match is what makes the Jetboil so efficient. The fins on the bottom maximise the effective surface area of the pot and, I assume, stop heat from being wasted up the pot's side. Hence, I wonder if Soto is suffering from too much output for what heat transfer can take place with a flat-bottomed pot. I know boil time has become a measure on TH-cam, but when I'm sitting staring at a beautiful view, is boil time really a worthy performance indicator? I am suffering from confirmation bias towards the Soto and looking for evidence to support my choice, but it sounds like you have done the same and got past it with some science and pressure from your buddies. Wish me luck in buying two new stoves 😆
Soto definitely performs better when you step off the gas but still not as good as jetboil in my opinion. I agree theres no real rush to boil water but just based on my experiences with fuel consumption I will be sticking with jetboil for long trips. Soto still to come on 1-2 night trips. Good luck on your stove mission and thanks for watching. Appreciate the comment!
It’s much more efficient to crank them about half way. Might take another minute but far less gas. I have a Soto Amicus or whatever it’s called but it’s essentially the same as a wind master. Also, nothing saves gas better than a titanium flat pack twig stove. Also very fast boil time and, of course, free fuel. Whole thing weighs 200g. Often I do a slow food cook with that and still have the gas bottle for a quick cuppa while it cooks. Brilliant.
I have owned many good quality stoves but my go to for quality, reliability, ease of operation, strength, compact size (fits in the palm of my hand) is an EPIgas miniature stove that I purchased in 1990. It also came with green plastic bade to stabilize a variety of gas canisters. Superb piece of equipment and importantly has a comforting sound when it is operating. Now it is a very sentimental piece of equipment that I treasure.
That EPIgas miniature stove sounds like a true gem! It’s impressive that it’s still going strong after all these years-quality and reliability like that are hard to beat. The fact that it’s compact and easy to operate makes it even better, and I totally get the sentimental value it holds. A piece of gear that’s both functional and nostalgic is something special! I have similar bits of gear that I will never get rid of!
That's an interesting result. However, I see you've used a titanium pot compared to the aluminium jetboil. I reckon if you use something an aluminium pot you may see some different results as titanium is a pretty poor conductor and insulator of heat.
Pretty accurate in the conclusion. I use the Jet Boil Minimo as well on longer trips, the fuel consumption is hard to beat. The simmer control on the Soto Windmaster is really great for weekend and camping trips, when you can get creative with cooking and fuel consumption is not a concern.
@@Charactermatters650 the Soto Windmaster has more power than the Jet boil Minimo, so the windmaster will use more fuel on full power in general. A heat exchanger pot works best with a certain degree of power and jetboil found the sweet spot. MSR uses also more fuel with a heat exchnager pot than the jetboil minimo. if you would compare it at the same power level ( clibrated ) with an heat exchanger pot, you would get the exact result, but that is not a real world condition and how people would use it.
Stoves waste more fuel the faster you burn them. HX pots waste less at full throttle than normal pots if you really can't wait a couple extra minutes. At half throttle the fuel consumption gets much closer and you have to figure out if the extra pot weight is worth the fuel savings. Goes without saying that wind is the enemy and massively increases fuel consumption. As always, technique is as important as gear.
it sounds like these integrated setups pay for their weight and cost with efficiency on longer trips, especially if it's windy. Thanks for sharing. The Jetboil is now on my potentials list if I ever go on a longer trip
Big efficiency difference is going to be the JB has those heat exchangers on the base which are going to catch more flame that is lost on the WM and also act as a windshield. Firemaple has a new pot with a heat exchanger designed for 3-prong stoves (WM add-on) that should help
@@mowsertas Concerning the fuel consumption you mentioned. There may be a leakage. I noticed the Windmaster leaking gas when I left it on the canister overnight. First I thought that I got a lemon. Reddit to the rescue: “The nozzles of Japanese OD canisters are slightly different by brands. Also Japanese OD canisters do not fit foreign brands overall (leakage assured). Be sure you use Japanese OD canisters or have the connector mod to fit.” “Talked to Soto and they suggested I try a different fuel cannister. MSR 110 was what I was using originally, tried 110g Snow Peak and it was much better.” Good luck finding Japanese canisters in my location.
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@@mowsertas Upon further investigation, it could as well be that my canisters are not up to par. I've been using Flipfuel to refill them and that might have done something to the nozzle.
I’m surprised your Soto ‘windmaster (not) performed as well as it did in the cold, damp, comparatively high altitude autumn air in the Eldons. In those conditions, and without a wind shield, even less of the heat generated at the burner head would be transferred to the pot. You showed when the flame front is open to the surrounding air you will achieve poor fuel efficiency. I’ve spent too many years coaxing luke warm water out of a succession of stoves. I have some ideas that may help. The integrated pot and neoprene cover on the MiniMo retains more heat in and around the base and sides of the pot. In turn, that retained heat, combined with suppression of air movement around the burner/pot interface maximises heat on the pot. In comparison, the … ahem, soto “windmaster” doesn’t do much or any of that. The heat from the burner is directed at the bottom of the pot - mostly. The burner head also uselessly heats the surrounding air, and any - any - wind movement will diminish the flame front being directed at the pot base. If you were to test the soto with the MiniMo pot, you’d get slightly more fuel efficient boiling of water because of the features of the pot (neoprene/integrated wind guard etc). If you already have that pot, you could bring it along, but then the weight savings of the soto burner head would prove trivial compared with carrying the full MiniMo. Anyhoo…. You mentioned part of the solution to the inefficient Soto problem in the video. MSR liquid and gas stoves use a foil plate that sits below the burner and a windshield that fits around the outside of the metal plate and fits closely to the side of the pot. In this way, the metal enclosure concentrates heat on the base and sides of the pot while reflecting heat that flows downwards from the burner head back upwards towards the pot. The jetboil system uses a very much refined heat retention system - similar to one msr came up with in the early 90’s that looked like a medieval torture device for a pot. It weighed a ton and made very slight improvements to fuel efficiency. The jetboil system evolved over many generations, is lighter, and as you showed - works reasonably efficiently. In my experience (using the metal plate and windshield) will improve efficiency of an upright canister stove by around 25-30%. It still uses a lot of fuel though, and incompletely burns that fuel. Australia’s Roger Caffin did many tests on stoves, and canister stoves in cold, damp environments. He and others found incomplete combustion of gas - similar to what you experienced in the Eldons - creates a LOT of carbon monoxide. Cooking in a buttoned down tent, with poor fuel combustion, will create a cloud of carbon monoxide that sinks to the bottom of the tent - where occupants sleep and breathe it in. People die in extreme circumstances from this situation. So, if you want to use the Soto, maybe carry the windshield and plate that would increase fuel and combustion efficiency, and reduce but not eliminate higher concentrations of carbon monoxide production. To be clear, any stove in a tent will produce carbon monoxide (including jetboils) - so ventilate well if you need to cook inside. If you wanted to avoid this, cook outside. Although with the soto, without a wind shield bring one of the 440 gm gas canisters per day and don’t expect water to boil, a little bit of lukewarm water might happen. Ask me how i know this, eyeroll! Anyway, keep us informed of your adventures (and adventures in gear stoves) - it’s great living hard core adventures - vicariously.
Comprehensive comment! Thanks for the ideas! Definately staying in the minimo camp for the time being. They market the Soto as minimalist and having to add in extra stuff to carry with it kind of defeats the purpose. Might give the MSR reactor a go soon to compare against the jetboil! Good take on the Carbon Monoxide too! Yikes!
@@mowsertas MSR reactor. Hmmm, read on. Since you have a MiniMo, i discuss first how to make that safer through reduction in Carbon Monoxide (CO) production - if you have to COok inside a tent. Then, with reference to research and experiments, i summarise performance issues identified with the reactor stove. First, Jetboil: I continue to nurse a Jetboil Sol Titanium stove through its aged years. The MiniMo is similar, so your and my results should be semi-comparable. Many factors contribute to Carbon Monoxide (CO) production. The size of the gas jets and spacing between burner head/flame and the base of the pot (google it for more info). The closer the pot is to the flame from the burner, the more likely you will be to generate CO at high concentrations. To minimise the amount of CO produced by your MiniMo, (if cooking in your tent) you could provide additional space between the finned MiniMo pot and the stove head. I use tent pegs to add some separation. Works OK, but your mileage may vary. Also, if you do this, the stove becomes prone to drafts affecting burning performance because of the gap between stove and pot base where drafts can quench/diminish the flame. I resolve the problem with a wind protector made from multiple layers of kitchen aluminium foil. I stand the wind shield up from the ground and wrap it almost all the way around the pot. I leave a 10 cm gap to ensure adequate ventilation of the flame. This protects the flame for a 10 gram weight penalty, and further reduces CO production. As far as the MSR reactor stove, you may want to read Roger Caffin’s research article (linked below). The preproduction version of the MSR Reactor produced around 1000 parts per million CO (well and truly above a lethal dose) according to Roger’s report. The production version produced 300 ppm at a simmer (if you can get them to do that) and around 80-100 ppm at full speed. To compare, the old jetboils produced 8-15 ppm CO. So, if you’re thinking of using an MSR reactor, IMHO, only use it outside the tent. Also, take a moment to read the FOUR health warnings on the reactor stove: one on the box, two attached to the stove, and one on the pot - the last time i looked). The lawyers appear to be trying hard to protect the company from claims that their product caused death of hikers using their reactor stoves in buttoned down tents. I’d look at low tech: separating MiniMo pot and burner and a windshield. Safer for a couple of $ and slight weight penalty. I’ll be interested to see how you approach this issue for your use case - in future videos. Good luck. backpackinglight.com/co_series_supplement_1_msr_reactor/
I hike regularly with four others. A couple of years ago, i got a windmaster and the others then followed suit. So we have five windmasters in the group. Three (including mine) are almost identical in performance. One is slightly slower and the last one is demonstrably worse than the other four. Maybe you have a dud? Yes, our trips are generally shorter and yes, being Asians, we get pretty creative with our meals and the fine simmer control is a must. So for us, the windmaster is a better choice than the jetboil.
That's a lot of Windmasters! Yes, when you need simmer control the Windmaster would be a much better option! I am going to try and go a bit more gourmet at some stage on shorter walks with meals so then I will probably take the Soto for those trips.
@@mowsertas they copied me on my Windmaster, they copied me on my Xmid tent, they copied me on my Soto thermostack combo, and somehow, we all now have blue pants and black tops when we hike / camp. Seriously, I need to have a chat with them. I'm gonna have to start hiking in merino lightweight buttfloss just to mess with them.
@@praktika1082 I can totally see you hike in those chain-hole base layers (which I've heard is the option for managing sweat whilst cold since it evaporates the best) and then all your mates copy you, so in the morning when you are putting on your layers you have 5 people all who are wearing clothes which shows of all of your bodies!
Yep jet boils are efficient but .. when cooking food I never liked it. I use an old pocket rocket eg original it been a good stove but efficient nope . being in qld having dehydrated food has been problematic due to lack of water on longer trips so the food we take is whole food pouches. Yep weights is A factor . any way love your vids and keep up to good work . Regards dp
It would also suggest looking at the Kmart Campmaster jetboil knockoff for $59. Great fuel efficiency closer to the jetboil than the Soto windmaster. Doesn't simmer. Not sure about the durability of the campmaster. Yet to take mine on a hike. Happy with the results testing the campmaster at home. I also own the Soto windmaster.
Hey Mowser. New subscriber from NZ. Great channel. Great videos. Great review. You might want to look at the Jetboil Stash. I wanted the functionality of boiling water and a separate gas burner for my small pan. I tend to cook real meals, vacuum seal them, and reheat them on a pan (have been known to carry in a dozen eggs, bacon and buns on big trips). Pro-tip, you should do this for your first couple of meals on trail with what you cook for your family. I freeze them and take them in on big hunting trips. I don't mind the weight as water is often short up high on tops trips. So opportunity cost of energy to get more water! I ran a test using the Jetboil Stash with 250ml of cold water = 2 minutes boil time. That's a cup of hot water for coffee I then used the Jetboil stash burner and 250ml with my Toaks 450ml cup = 4 minutes boil time. My learning - the Stash pot with the fins is far more efficient at circulating and retaining heat. If you ran a test using a pot like this, I'm picking it will outperform the titanium pot you are using. Thinking the weight of the pot isn't as critical when you look at only carrying one canister! I have noticed with the larger gas burners - they chew through the fuel - picking like a fuel injected vehicle to provide the benefit of "wind burner" they are feeding more fuel!
Looks like I need to up my cooking game and switch to vacuum-sealed meals like you! I have taken them on the odd occasion and done the Sous Vide option. Funny you mention the Stash - was only looking at this very recently as a bigger family option!
Really enjoyed your review given I have both of these cooking systems. I went with the Soto & titanium pot to reduce pack space and weight. Thought I was imagining the gas use the last couple of hikes which were all around 4 days. Agree that it became concerning that the gas was being used quickly with the Soto. I’m yet to try a windshield? I have always loved the Minimo and after watching your review it has possibly given me a new perspective for longer hikes. So O.T the Minimo will probably make the cut even with a small-medium canister but think I’ll try a windshield on the Soto as had noticed that this was an issue. Thanks 😊
Yes, i'm yet to try a windshield. Also considering one of the Fire Maple pots with the high efficiency heat exchange bases. Having said that, I feel that when you buy a stove, it should come in its most efficient form, so if everyone has to go out and buy windshields etc then shouldnt it come included? It is interesting. I just took the Minimo on a 6 day winter trip and didn't even use half a medium canister of gas and I was using it at least 3 times per day!
No heat exchange so of course the jet boil wins - Get one of the cheap heat exchange pots (almost same weight as your titanium pot and way way cheaper) and the advantage goes away - see test on “Frankenstein stove” set up - wind master stove, knock off heat exchange pot and it beats the jet boil for both fuel consumption and time. I bought the Olicamp hard anodized XTS pot with integrated heat exchange - 1 liter and weights 6.6 ounces about 30 bucks US! Works great and boil time is sub 3 at altitudes below 5,000 feet I am 64 years old - backpacked for about 30+ years - still use my whisper light too - Windmaster beats them all for weight, fuel consumption and boil time along with a great regulator for low temp cooking. Used Jet boil too for some years - good, but heavy by the latest standards.
Thanks for sharing your experience and recommendations! It's always great to hear from seasoned backpackers like yourself. Have been looking into the Fire Maple heat exchange pots and might give that a go! Sounds like we've had a similar stove journey over the years!
No, and I should have explained why - I can't see a real world situation where I would take the minimo pot with anything other than the minimo burner hence I didn't do the test.
Have you considered using your Soto Windmaster with a Fire Maple Petrel Heat Exchanger pot? This is a TH-cam video of the stove and pot👇🏼 th-cam.com/video/T-C07ENBF9s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pvwL5ozbqNnEsK72
Worst-cased it against Windmaster; 1) Fully-open fuel is less efficient (in exchange for speed) and 2) Barely cracking into a new giant canister. If you were to redo-it with equal boil-times, Windmaster would undoubtedly win. Not a Windmaster fanboy, and agree with GearSkeptic that stove's must earn their spot in one's pack based mostly on weight. If one can't be bothered to set fuel-valve for conditions, then they must suffer carrying the extra weight. And while Windmaster beats heavy heat-exchanger systems, BRS beats Windmaster in many situations/use-cases. Likewise, a Caldera-cone alcohol system often beats them all, depending mostly upon whether they are allowed by the nanny-state. But what's the main lesson? Lesson is that wind is the main user of fuel. Therefore, wind-blockage is the main saver of fuel. FlatCat Gear makes ultralight windscreens for Windmaster and BRS that only weigh a few grams. Trail-Designs makes Caldera-cones, that typically weigh less than 1oz.
Thanks, excellent study and review. The Minimo w integrated pot has the advantage of the heat transfer fins that the other didn't. A clear factor in fuel efficiency, I think. Thanks again. Subscribed & liked.
Think your losing more efficiency through that pot than the cookers themselves,do a windmaster with a heat exchange, watch those numbers come right down
Will give it a try
It’s a good hack.
Thinking Fire Maple Petrel with Triflex
Great video - I have used the Windmaster for many years and also on longer trips, I make a slow, very slow boil to save fuel - its working.
Thanks for sharing! Good to hear!
Yes, this is the issue. You can get almost JetBoil like efficiency from canister-top stoves, but you have to turn them right down, boil them slow and boil smaller volumes (less than 450ml) at a time.
Another great video thank you. I have both stoves as well and hike in the same area. For boiling water only the MSR Reactor however is hand down the most efficient stove in any sort of wind. 15 years later it’s still going strong.
Thanks for the info! Very interested to try out the Reactor some time soon!
I’ve had a Jetboil stove for 10+ years. Yes it’s heavier than the alternatives but it’s really efficient and boils water quickly in windy conditions. The piezo ignition has died but other than that that’s all I can fault. I only boil water and never cook with it. I’ve gone 6 days on one small 100gm canister and still had gas left over. It gets my #1 vote.
I'm using MSR Reactor and I believe this is the most gas-efficient and wind-resistant stove on the market. I recommend it.
I also have MSR windburner but don’t find it as efficient as jetboil. Will have a look at the reactor.
Started out with a JetBoil...broke in 3 months & got a refund. Bought a clone via AliExpress that lasted until I bought the Soto...& never turned back. Just prefer the reliability of the Japanese craftsmanship & still going strong 4 years later. Longest trail was 630miles so...
@@wishdarkstalkaz4050 Which jetboil? I have seen loads of the old ones last many many years, however there are few videos on here of the regulated ones failing. The fix was to disassemble the regulator and cut a piece of cotton like filter material off that had been clogged with fuel deposits. My jetboil zip has seen loads of use without issues, I also have a windmaster that’s great and recently bought a clone off of a site for £15 regulated like the windmaster (£45) and pot stands are interchangeable and it’s designed in Japan made in china will see how that goes.
I have the Soto, and my friend the mino mo, mini mo is better on gas, but it's correct that the Soto is far superior on simmer. Also, I have seen a review where using a titanium shroud with the Soto melts the piezo
Titanium shroud would definately make a difference!
Great review and it confirms what I have experienced. The neoprene cosy on the Jetboil combined with the flux ring under the pot and the burner head all work together to make the Jetboil more fuel efficient and windproof. My first Jetboild didn't have the Regulator Valve on it, so the last quarter of the canaster resulted in much longer cook times and lower heat output. Even my latest Minimo with the regulator valve has some reduced performance in the last quarter of the canaster, but significantly improved over the original one. I have been using my MSR Whisperlite more in windy conditions, even for freezedry food. Its heavier, but works well in strong winds and has constant heat output until the last drop of fuel.
Yep, you really can't go wrong with the whisperlite! I've had mine for 20 years now and it's still going strong. Don't use it as much as I used to but it still comes out a couple of times a year.
Check out the gear skeptic series about stove efficiency
yup, fairly technical with lots of controlled experiments. Multiple video on stove efficiencies from pot size, wind tests, windscreens, and heat ex changers. well worth checking out
Will definately check that out! Thanks for letting me know, I hadn't seen it!
@@mowsertas I'm not sure if he reviews the soto but I believe he found highest efficiency was dialed back from full flame somewhat
@@johnclauson4619yes. That’s definitely the case with the Windmaster. It chews through gas much quicker cranked up high.
Love your videos. Have you viewed Gear Scpetics videos on the same topic?
There’s a potential flaw in your methodology of running both stoves flat out. Minimo output is 6000BTU and Windmaster is 11000BTU. Flat out, the WM will produce ~2x so it’s unsurprising the fuel use is so much more but also reflected in boil times.
Efficiency and pot size matters and the Evernew is a good size for the WM but when flat out, the WM probably pushes heat up the side - Gear Skeptic covered this.
A Ti shield could be added to the WM for a few grams and still be hundreds of grams lighter than a Minimo and you have over 1 litre usable capacity - good if filter fails, no tabs.
I always boil water with lid on and all of my friends do too. I sneak a peak to look for bubbles on the base and know it will boil in seconds when I see them. The test would be better with a thermocouple attached to a meter to imitate a lid on most of the boil.
I’ve used a WM since 2018 with a Toaks 750 and a roll up Ti shield, typically with the same number of boils that you do. Most use has been week long Tasmania, VIC Alps etc at elevation. I run the flame to suit the pot base and get similar fuel economy to your Minimo experience.
great points! Especially the output stats. Lots of good points to improve on future reviews. Thanks!
I now have a Soto Windmaster paired with a Fire Maple Petrel G3 hx pot which is really impressive. I just did a comparison (in still air) boiling 400mls of water on the Minimo, MSR Windburner (my normal use stove) and the Soto/Fire Maple. The Minimo and Soto came to the boil within 5 seconds of each other, the Windburner quite a while later. The Minimo used 3.6gms of fuel, the Windburner 6.3gms and the Soto 5.5gms. I have already used the Soto in very gusty conditions and it was excellent. I have found the Minimo, while superb at gas economy, a real problem in windy conditions. So now, the Soto is my everyday stove. Suggest you try it with an hx pot, it should make quite a difference. You need the 3 leg support with it.
Great info! Thanks for sharing your experience! Will get myself the fire maple for sure!
If you've boiled 750ml in 2 min 45 sec, they you've had the throttle wide open ...and that is why your efficiency is awful. Chasing the fastest boil will always dramatically reduce your efficiency. Repeat the test with the Windmaster, but dial it down to a medium-low heat, accept a longer boil time and your efficiency will go up significantly.
...also boiling 750ml in one go will reduce efficiency. Try boiling 2x 375 ml and your efficiency will go up significantly. The Windmaster is not a JetBoil, you need to stop asking it to work in the same way. Or admit you like the ease, convenience and efficiency of the JetBoil and just accept the pack weight is the price you pay.
The windmaster is a lot more powerful so will use more fuel at full, the MSR windburner is the way to go in most outdoor scenarios as wind will be involved, it’s like a jet boil with built in wind guard so will be even more economical than the jetboil.
@@ashab1 Sure, it's just heavy. The point is, you can get ultralight cannister top stoves to do the job with similar efficiency, you just have to turn em down.
Any brand will do? The closer it gets to freezing the worse butane performs. Hence the iso mix is important at zero and below. The alt, if you want to keep using a gas cylinder, is a Primus Express Spider that splutters initially in 0C conditions but once it gets going the heating coil over the burner keeps the gas flowing.
Until 4 years ago I always used a whisperlite. Do like the ease of canister stoves now. Express spider looks like a good option.
Yep, depends on the conditions, for the price you can get packs of 3-4 for Under $10, and one Canister for $20ish, but the thing most people need with Canisters is the flow valve and you can empty partially used into one before you discard.
That said you can get adaptors to run both systems depending on the weather you need.
I am not sure you get the concept of BTU/h. Your minimo pulls out 6000 btu/ and the wind master 11000btu/hr. Not quite twice as much. Running your Soto lower and you will use less gas. Now because of the design of the jet boil, they can get away with fast boiling with half the output. But your numbers tell the story quite well. Wind master boiled faster for more fuel, bring it down and you will boil in the same time for about the same gas. Another thing, I have the smaller Soto, the amicus, light up, and turn on gas to gather maximum flame. Keeping opening the gas more don’t give you more flame but it burns more fuel. So your findings are as expected.
One thing I understand about the Windmaster, never open it full throttle, it is at maximum performance and gas efficiency at about three full turns, no more, that will give you better fuel efficiency and still fast boiling rates.
Great tip! Thanks for sharing.
well, you did a great job comparing those 2, but you got confused with the results. Your tests showed that minimo burner under titanuim pot gives the same consumption as soto, but twice the boiling time. And that's no surprise, titanium has 12x less heat conductivity than aluminium, and it's twice as much heavier (due to it's strength, we need less titanium to make a pot, that's why it roughly the same weight). Another very important factor is a heat sink. Sooo, to do it right, you have to test them with identical pots. If you put heat sinked aluminium pot on the soto, you will see the same consumption with much better boiling time. Try something like FM petrel, it should fit
Thanks for going into all that detail - amazing review!
No problems. Glad you found it helpful!
Nice practical test! I've had similar experiences. My old Titan Jetboil Sol Ti (unfortunately no longer manufactured) is ideal for one person and weighs 240g. I can manage with 100g of gas for 7 days.
What are the results with windmaster plus minimo pot?
The Windmaster Plus Minimo Pot wasn't a good result either as the pot was too narrow to fit the burner inside the base hence the flame was to far from the base. I have since been informed that firemaple do make a similar pot that would fit so that would be worth a try.
@@mowsertasyes,the petrel..
Thanks for the heads up. Was looking at the Windmaster for a through hike, but I'll stick with my old Kovea. Can usually get 10 or more days out of that boiling similar amounts of water.
That is some great effiiciency! Would def stick with the Kovea!
It would have been interesting to see how much consumed if setting it to boil in same time.
Great review and exactly the info I was looking for - especially when it comes to longer trips - for an even lighter option how would the Jetboil Stash compare ?
I haven't used the stash but given it is a similar type of burner and pot support setup to the Windmaster, I don't know! If I end up using one i'll definately do a review!
I wonder how the Windmaster with tri pot support and Fire Maple Petrel HX pot would have performed.
Definately keen to test that out at some stage!
Would be interested to see how it goes when you don’t turn in up as much and let it take the same time as the jetboil if it uses more or less than it did here
yes, out on the track we did do this. We had the Soto turned down while the others had their minimo on full tilt. We still went through more gas with the soto though.
Do love soto equipment the navigator cookset is brilliant and so is the windmaster 👌
Own a few jetboils aswell and they've always been solid, usually just take a Flash or zip if im only boiling water just easier to have an all in 1
Great video! By the way if you use the windmaster at a lower heat setting it will burn less fuel per boil.
Those stock videos are a little weird btw. I'd skip them, you don't need them :)
This is a really good, thought-provoking review. I'm in the market for a new stove and was about to pull the trigger on the Soto Windmaster. I had yet to consider the Jetboil, even though I own an early Jetboil and have been a massive fan as a water-boiling device (in the right conditions). I have learned so much from comments left by viewers, too. I wasn't aware that earlier Jetboils weren't regulated, which explains the coughing and spluttering of my old JB, mainly when cold or low on gas. I was lured into a BRS titanium some years back, which taught me that the lightest isn't the best. Unregulated, the BRS let me down, and I carried a bag full of food around Snowdonia in winter I couldn't cook.
The Soto sounds like a fine stove but a gas guzzler. Would it perform better if you stepped off the gas a bit and increased the boil time?
I'm assuming the pot-to-stove match is what makes the Jetboil so efficient. The fins on the bottom maximise the effective surface area of the pot and, I assume, stop heat from being wasted up the pot's side. Hence, I wonder if Soto is suffering from too much output for what heat transfer can take place with a flat-bottomed pot.
I know boil time has become a measure on TH-cam, but when I'm sitting staring at a beautiful view, is boil time really a worthy performance indicator?
I am suffering from confirmation bias towards the Soto and looking for evidence to support my choice, but it sounds like you have done the same and got past it with some science and pressure from your buddies.
Wish me luck in buying two new stoves 😆
Soto definitely performs better when you step off the gas but still not as good as jetboil in my opinion. I agree theres no real rush to boil water but just based on my experiences with fuel consumption I will be sticking with jetboil for long trips. Soto still to come on 1-2 night trips. Good luck on your stove mission and thanks for watching. Appreciate the comment!
My only issue with jetboil is that it's aluminum, and no-one ever seems to talk about this.
It’s much more efficient to crank them about half way. Might take another minute but far less gas. I have a Soto Amicus or whatever it’s called but it’s essentially the same as a wind master. Also, nothing saves gas better than a titanium flat pack twig stove. Also very fast boil time and, of course, free fuel. Whole thing weighs 200g. Often I do a slow food cook with that and still have the gas bottle for a quick cuppa while it cooks. Brilliant.
Awesome review! 👍🏻
Thanks! 👍 Glad you enjoyed!
I have owned many good quality stoves but my go to for quality, reliability, ease of operation, strength, compact size (fits in the palm of my hand) is an EPIgas miniature stove that I purchased in 1990. It also came with green plastic bade to stabilize a variety of gas canisters. Superb piece of equipment and importantly has a comforting sound when it is operating. Now it is a very sentimental piece of equipment that I treasure.
That EPIgas miniature stove sounds like a true gem! It’s impressive that it’s still going strong after all these years-quality and reliability like that are hard to beat. The fact that it’s compact and easy to operate makes it even better, and I totally get the sentimental value it holds. A piece of gear that’s both functional and nostalgic is something special! I have similar bits of gear that I will never get rid of!
I agree Mowser. Pleasure to own.
That's an interesting result. However, I see you've used a titanium pot compared to the aluminium jetboil. I reckon if you use something an aluminium pot you may see some different results as titanium is a pretty poor conductor and insulator of heat.
Pretty accurate in the conclusion.
I use the Jet Boil Minimo as well on longer trips, the fuel consumption is hard to beat. The simmer control on the Soto Windmaster is really great for weekend and camping trips, when you can get creative with cooking and fuel consumption is not a concern.
Absolutely!
No not an accurate conclusion. In this case, you did not have similar conditions (no heat exchange pot for the windmaster but the Jetboil had one)
@@Charactermatters650 the Soto Windmaster has more power than the Jet boil Minimo, so the windmaster will use more fuel on full power in general. A heat exchanger pot works best with a certain degree of power and jetboil found the sweet spot. MSR uses also more fuel with a heat exchnager pot than the jetboil minimo.
if you would compare it at the same power level ( clibrated ) with an heat exchanger pot, you would get the exact result, but that is not a real world condition and how people would use it.
Stoves waste more fuel the faster you burn them. HX pots waste less at full throttle than normal pots if you really can't wait a couple extra minutes. At half throttle the fuel consumption gets much closer and you have to figure out if the extra pot weight is worth the fuel savings. Goes without saying that wind is the enemy and massively increases fuel consumption. As always, technique is as important as gear.
I have a Soto fuel blaster & yeah, while maybe not the most efficient thing, it’s s a quality rig all the same.
it sounds like these integrated setups pay for their weight and cost with efficiency on longer trips, especially if it's windy. Thanks for sharing.
The Jetboil is now on my potentials list if I ever go on a longer trip
Yep, I'm a big fan of the Minimo!
Big efficiency difference is going to be the JB has those heat exchangers on the base which are going to catch more flame that is lost on the WM and also act as a windshield. Firemaple has a new pot with a heat exchanger designed for 3-prong stoves (WM add-on) that should help
Have seen those new fire maple pots. Might have to give one a go!
@@mowsertas Aliexpress $36 right now, about 1/3 usual price
Thanks for the vid. Good info since I just received WindMaster to replace Mínimo.
Thanks! Glad you found it helpful
@@mowsertas Concerning the fuel consumption you mentioned. There may be a leakage. I noticed the Windmaster leaking gas when I left it on the canister overnight. First I thought that I got a lemon. Reddit to the rescue:
“The nozzles of Japanese OD canisters are slightly different by brands. Also Japanese OD canisters do not fit foreign brands overall (leakage assured). Be sure you use Japanese OD canisters or have the connector mod to fit.”
“Talked to Soto and they suggested I try a different fuel cannister. MSR 110 was what I was using originally, tried 110g Snow Peak and it was much better.”
Good luck finding Japanese canisters in my location.
@@mowsertas Upon further investigation, it could as well be that my canisters are not up to par. I've been using Flipfuel to refill them and that might have done something to the nozzle.
I’m surprised your Soto ‘windmaster (not) performed as well as it did in the cold, damp, comparatively high altitude autumn air in the Eldons. In those conditions, and without a wind shield, even less of the heat generated at the burner head would be transferred to the pot. You showed when the flame front is open to the surrounding air you will achieve poor fuel efficiency.
I’ve spent too many years coaxing luke warm water out of a succession of stoves. I have some ideas that may help.
The integrated pot and neoprene cover on the MiniMo retains more heat in and around the base and sides of the pot. In turn, that retained heat, combined with suppression of air movement around the burner/pot interface maximises heat on the pot.
In comparison, the … ahem, soto “windmaster” doesn’t do much or any of that. The heat from the burner is directed at the bottom of the pot - mostly. The burner head also uselessly heats the surrounding air, and any - any - wind movement will diminish the flame front being directed at the pot base.
If you were to test the soto with the MiniMo pot, you’d get slightly more fuel efficient boiling of water because of the features of the pot (neoprene/integrated wind guard etc). If you already have that pot, you could bring it along, but then the weight savings of the soto burner head would prove trivial compared with carrying the full MiniMo. Anyhoo….
You mentioned part of the solution to the inefficient Soto problem in the video. MSR liquid and gas stoves use a foil plate that sits below the burner and a windshield that fits around the outside of the metal plate and fits closely to the side of the pot. In this way, the metal enclosure concentrates heat on the base and sides of the pot while reflecting heat that flows downwards from the burner head back upwards towards the pot. The jetboil system uses a very much refined heat retention system - similar to one msr came up with in the early 90’s that looked like a medieval torture device for a pot. It weighed a ton and made very slight improvements to fuel efficiency. The jetboil system evolved over many generations, is lighter, and as you showed - works reasonably efficiently.
In my experience (using the metal plate and windshield) will improve efficiency of an upright canister stove by around 25-30%. It still uses a lot of fuel though, and incompletely burns that fuel.
Australia’s Roger Caffin did many tests on stoves, and canister stoves in cold, damp environments. He and others found incomplete combustion of gas - similar to what you experienced in the Eldons - creates a LOT of carbon monoxide. Cooking in a buttoned down tent, with poor fuel combustion, will create a cloud of carbon monoxide that sinks to the bottom of the tent - where occupants sleep and breathe it in. People die in extreme circumstances from this situation.
So, if you want to use the Soto, maybe carry the windshield and plate that would increase fuel and combustion efficiency, and reduce but not eliminate higher concentrations of carbon monoxide production. To be clear, any stove in a tent will produce carbon monoxide (including jetboils) - so ventilate well if you need to cook inside.
If you wanted to avoid this, cook outside. Although with the soto, without a wind shield bring one of the 440 gm gas canisters per day and don’t expect water to boil, a little bit of lukewarm water might happen. Ask me how i know this, eyeroll!
Anyway, keep us informed of your adventures (and adventures in gear stoves) - it’s great living hard core adventures - vicariously.
Comprehensive comment! Thanks for the ideas! Definately staying in the minimo camp for the time being. They market the Soto as minimalist and having to add in extra stuff to carry with it kind of defeats the purpose. Might give the MSR reactor a go soon to compare against the jetboil! Good take on the Carbon Monoxide too! Yikes!
@@mowsertas MSR reactor. Hmmm, read on.
Since you have a MiniMo, i discuss first how to make that safer through reduction in Carbon Monoxide (CO) production - if you have to COok inside a tent. Then, with reference to research and experiments, i summarise performance issues identified with the reactor stove.
First, Jetboil: I continue to nurse a Jetboil Sol Titanium stove through its aged years. The MiniMo is similar, so your and my results should be semi-comparable.
Many factors contribute to Carbon Monoxide (CO) production. The size of the gas jets and spacing between burner head/flame and the base of the pot (google it for more info).
The closer the pot is to the flame from the burner, the more likely you will be to generate CO at high concentrations.
To minimise the amount of CO produced by your MiniMo, (if cooking in your tent) you could provide additional space between the finned MiniMo pot and the stove head. I use tent pegs to add some separation. Works OK, but your mileage may vary. Also, if you do this, the stove becomes prone to drafts affecting burning performance because of the gap between stove and pot base where drafts can quench/diminish the flame. I resolve the problem with a wind protector made from multiple layers of kitchen aluminium foil. I stand the wind shield up from the ground and wrap it almost all the way around the pot. I leave a 10 cm gap to ensure adequate ventilation of the flame. This protects the flame for a 10 gram weight penalty, and further reduces CO production.
As far as the MSR reactor stove, you may want to read Roger Caffin’s research article (linked below).
The preproduction version of the MSR Reactor produced around 1000 parts per million CO (well and truly above a lethal dose) according to Roger’s report. The production version produced 300 ppm at a simmer (if you can get them to do that) and around 80-100 ppm at full speed. To compare, the old jetboils produced 8-15 ppm CO.
So, if you’re thinking of using an MSR reactor, IMHO, only use it outside the tent. Also, take a moment to read the FOUR health warnings on the reactor stove: one on the box, two attached to the stove, and one on the pot - the last time i looked). The lawyers appear to be trying hard to protect the company from claims that their product caused death of hikers using their reactor stoves in buttoned down tents.
I’d look at low tech: separating MiniMo pot and burner and a windshield. Safer for a couple of $ and slight weight penalty. I’ll be interested to see how you approach this issue for your use case - in future videos.
Good luck.
backpackinglight.com/co_series_supplement_1_msr_reactor/
I hike regularly with four others. A couple of years ago, i got a windmaster and the others then followed suit. So we have five windmasters in the group. Three (including mine) are almost identical in performance. One is slightly slower and the last one is demonstrably worse than the other four.
Maybe you have a dud?
Yes, our trips are generally shorter and yes, being Asians, we get pretty creative with our meals and the fine simmer control is a must.
So for us, the windmaster is a better choice than the jetboil.
That's a lot of Windmasters! Yes, when you need simmer control the Windmaster would be a much better option! I am going to try and go a bit more gourmet at some stage on shorter walks with meals so then I will probably take the Soto for those trips.
@@mowsertas they copied me on my Windmaster, they copied me on my Xmid tent, they copied me on my Soto thermostack combo, and somehow, we all now have blue pants and black tops when we hike / camp. Seriously, I need to have a chat with them.
I'm gonna have to start hiking in merino lightweight buttfloss just to mess with them.
@@praktika1082 I can totally see you hike in those chain-hole base layers (which I've heard is the option for managing sweat whilst cold since it evaporates the best) and then all your mates copy you, so in the morning when you are putting on your layers you have 5 people all who are wearing clothes which shows of all of your bodies!
@@bananarama3624 the Nordic mesh base layer with g-string bottom. Yes.
What pot you used with windmaster?
If you use windshield and proper aluminum pot
The efficiency will increase significantly
Have you ever used the MSR Superfly?
No, I haven't ever seen it. Can't believe I haven't hear of this one! I have just about every other MSR stove.
Yep jet boils are efficient but .. when cooking food I never liked it. I use an old pocket rocket eg original it been a good stove but efficient nope . being in qld having dehydrated food has been problematic due to lack of water on longer trips so the food we take is whole food pouches. Yep weights is A factor . any way love your vids and keep up to good work . Regards dp
Thanks for watching!
You comparing aluminum HX pot and titanium pot that has very poor thermal conductivity.
I appreciate your observation! It's always good to have a conversation about the properties of different materials.
It would also suggest looking at the Kmart Campmaster jetboil knockoff for $59. Great fuel efficiency closer to the jetboil than the Soto windmaster. Doesn't simmer. Not sure about the durability of the campmaster. Yet to take mine on a hike. Happy with the results testing the campmaster at home. I also own the Soto windmaster.
Thanks for the recommendation! I'll have to check out the Kmart Campmaster jetboil knockoff!
Great video! Wish I would have found this before I bought the Soto.
Well, at least now you'll be an expert on the Soto for your next purchase! Thanks for watching and appreciate the feedback!
Hey Mowser. New subscriber from NZ. Great channel. Great videos. Great review. You might want to look at the Jetboil Stash. I wanted the functionality of boiling water and a separate gas burner for my small pan. I tend to cook real meals, vacuum seal them, and reheat them on a pan (have been known to carry in a dozen eggs, bacon and buns on big trips). Pro-tip, you should do this for your first couple of meals on trail with what you cook for your family. I freeze them and take them in on big hunting trips. I don't mind the weight as water is often short up high on tops trips. So opportunity cost of energy to get more water!
I ran a test using the Jetboil Stash with 250ml of cold water = 2 minutes boil time. That's a cup of hot water for coffee
I then used the Jetboil stash burner and 250ml with my Toaks 450ml cup = 4 minutes boil time.
My learning - the Stash pot with the fins is far more efficient at circulating and retaining heat. If you ran a test using a pot like this, I'm picking it will outperform the titanium pot you are using. Thinking the weight of the pot isn't as critical when you look at only carrying one canister!
I have noticed with the larger gas burners - they chew through the fuel - picking like a fuel injected vehicle to provide the benefit of "wind burner" they are feeding more fuel!
Looks like I need to up my cooking game and switch to vacuum-sealed meals like you! I have taken them on the odd occasion and done the Sous Vide option. Funny you mention the Stash - was only looking at this very recently as a bigger family option!
@@mowsertas Absolutely. I'll go back to sanding down my toothbrush...
Really enjoyed your review given I have both of these cooking systems. I went with the Soto & titanium pot to reduce pack space and weight. Thought I was imagining the gas use the last couple of hikes which were all around 4 days. Agree that it became concerning that the gas was being used quickly with the Soto. I’m yet to try a windshield? I have always loved the Minimo and after watching your review it has possibly given me a new perspective for longer hikes. So O.T the Minimo will probably make the cut even with a small-medium canister but think I’ll try a windshield on the Soto as had noticed that this was an issue. Thanks 😊
Yes, i'm yet to try a windshield. Also considering one of the Fire Maple pots with the high efficiency heat exchange bases. Having said that, I feel that when you buy a stove, it should come in its most efficient form, so if everyone has to go out and buy windshields etc then shouldnt it come included? It is interesting. I just took the Minimo on a 6 day winter trip and didn't even use half a medium canister of gas and I was using it at least 3 times per day!
Great review
Thanks so much!
No heat exchange so of course the jet boil wins - Get one of the cheap heat exchange pots (almost same weight as your titanium pot and way way cheaper) and the advantage goes away - see test on “Frankenstein stove” set up - wind master stove, knock off heat exchange pot and it beats the jet boil for both fuel consumption and time.
I bought the Olicamp hard anodized XTS pot with integrated heat exchange - 1 liter and weights 6.6 ounces about 30 bucks US!
Works great and boil time is sub 3 at altitudes below 5,000 feet
I am 64 years old - backpacked for about 30+ years - still use my whisper light too - Windmaster beats them all for weight, fuel consumption and boil time along with a great regulator for low temp cooking. Used Jet boil too for some years - good, but heavy by the latest standards.
Thanks for sharing your experience and recommendations! It's always great to hear from seasoned backpackers like yourself. Have been looking into the Fire Maple heat exchange pots and might give that a go! Sounds like we've had a similar stove journey over the years!
Didn't test minimo pot with windmaster.
No, and I should have explained why - I can't see a real world situation where I would take the minimo pot with anything other than the minimo burner hence I didn't do the test.
@@mowsertas if it takes same amount of fuel but does it faster and weight is less. Then in real world it makes more sense. Maybe.
HE pots are the way to go!
Absolutely! HE pots really do make a difference in cooking. They're so much more efficient!
Have you considered using your Soto Windmaster with a Fire Maple Petrel Heat Exchanger pot?
This is a TH-cam video of the stove and pot👇🏼
th-cam.com/video/T-C07ENBF9s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pvwL5ozbqNnEsK72
Oh wow, that looks amazing! Thanks for sharing, will definitely be checking it out!
Worst-cased it against Windmaster; 1) Fully-open fuel is less efficient (in exchange for speed) and 2) Barely cracking into a new giant canister. If you were to redo-it with equal boil-times, Windmaster would undoubtedly win. Not a Windmaster fanboy, and agree with GearSkeptic that stove's must earn their spot in one's pack based mostly on weight. If one can't be bothered to set fuel-valve for conditions, then they must suffer carrying the extra weight. And while Windmaster beats heavy heat-exchanger systems, BRS beats Windmaster in many situations/use-cases. Likewise, a Caldera-cone alcohol system often beats them all, depending mostly upon whether they are allowed by the nanny-state. But what's the main lesson?
Lesson is that wind is the main user of fuel. Therefore, wind-blockage is the main saver of fuel.
FlatCat Gear makes ultralight windscreens for Windmaster and BRS that only weigh a few grams. Trail-Designs makes Caldera-cones, that typically weigh less than 1oz.
Flat cat wind screen looks like a good option! Well do some more testing at some stage having learnt some lessons here. Thanks for watching!
Thanks, excellent study and review. The Minimo w integrated pot has the advantage of the heat transfer fins that the other didn't. A clear factor in fuel efficiency, I think. Thanks again. Subscribed & liked.
Thanks! 🙏
If you’re just boiling water, get a canister stove that blows through fuel. If you want a foody experience, get the minimo!
Windmaster for me
EPIgas. Japanese quality.