There are five basic forms to divide the octave into equal parts (NOTE: Existence of octave equivalence, enharmonic equivalence and 12 tone equal temperament is assumed in order to understand this) FIRST BASIC FORM - TRITONE - 12 semitones divided by 2 equal parts = 6. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into 2 equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1, T2, T3, T4, T5) Any intervallic pattern (measured in semitones) whose sum is 6 generates a mode of limited transposition. For instance: 1+5 (and its rotation 5+1) 2+4 (and its rotation 4+2) 1+1+4 (and its rotations 1+4+1/4+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 5 1+2+3 (and its rotations 2+3+1/3+1+2) 2+1+3 (and its rotations 1+3+2/3+2+1) 1+1+1+3 (and its rotations 1+1+3+1/1+3+1+1/3+1+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 4 1+1+2+2 (and its rotations 1+2+2+1/2+2+1+1/2+1+1+2/1+1+2+2) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 6 1+1+1+1+2 (and its rotations 1+1+1+2+1/1+1+2+1+1/1+2+1+1+1/2+1+1+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 7 SECOND BASIC FORM - AUGMENTED TRIAD - 12 semitones divided by 3 equal parts = 4. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into 3 equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1, T2, T3) Any intervallic pattern (measured in semitones) whose sum is 4 generates a mode of limited transposition. For instance: 1+3 (and its rotation 3+1) 1+1+2 (and its rotations 1+2+1/2+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 3 THIRD BASIC FORM - DIMINISHED CHORD - 12 semitones divided by 4 equal parts = 3. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into 4 equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1, T2) Any intervallic pattern (measured in semitones) whose sum is 3 generates a mode of limited transposition. For instance: 1+2 (and its rotation 2+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 2 FOURTH BASIC FORM - WHOLE TONE SCALE - 12 semitones divided by 6 equal parts = 2. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into six equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 1 FIFTH BASIC FORM - CHROMATIC SCALE- 12 semitones divided by 12 equal parts = 1. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into twelve equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0). This scale only can be divided into intervals smaller than the semitone (quarter tones, etc) In brief, there are 16 sonorities (included the 5 basic forms listed above) with limited transposition: 7 modes of limited transposition by Messiaen and 9 remaining sonorities which are truncations of Messiaen's modes. If you are familiar with pc set theory or another combinatory tool, you can trace another interesting properties of these modes. Playing and transposing these modes is the best method to catch their particular essence. Greetings from Bogotá, Colombia. Excellent TH-cam channel.
Another great video! A few other interesting facts: -Messiaen was also a mystic and devoutly religious (but the good kind). -He composed and performed a quartet for prisoners in a Nazi camp while a prisoner himself. -He lived/taught in at Paris Conservatory in the winters, then composed and recorded birdsong in the Alps in the summer. -As a young boy he carried Debussy's opera score Pelléas et Mélisande around like a favorite coloring book.
Chronochromie was the first piece by him I heard one day on the classical radio in Newport News Va in Mom's car. I thought at first it might be a Zappa classical piece. Boy was I wrong. And Happy too!
Toru Takemitsu (who loves Messiaen's music) use the whole tone scale, the octatonic and most of the time, the w-1/2-1/2 scale as a fundamental part of his music, specially in his early and latest years of his life.
I don't understand your notation w-1/2-1/2 . What scale is it (in semitones notation or notes)? is it one of Messaien's mode or another particular to Toru Takemitsu ?
If we start on C, for example: C-D (W) -> Eb-E (1/2) -> F-F# (1/2), it's part of Messiaen's, "Third Mode," which follows and repeats the intervals: W--1/2--1/2... so an entire scale could be: C-D, Eb-E, F-F#, G#-Bb, B-C, Db-D. :) Toru used this mode in a lot of his compositions, borrowing it from Messiaen. :) One of my favourite Takemitsu pieces is, "All In Twilight II: Dark;"--check out versions by Giacomo Fiore, and Franz Halasz!
Rick is the man! For anyone reading this, besides the more commonly used modes discussed here like the diminished and whole tone, Allan uses the 3rd mode of limited transposition all the time. It's part of his signature sound for going outside. Listen to Allan's City Nights at the 1:47 mark. He plays licks like that or variations all the time. In Allan's REH instructional video he calls this mode simply the symmetrical scale.
That REH video has some of my favorite Holdsworth solos. I listen to it over and over. Even have it burn to a disc for listening in the car. It's insane.
I've forgotten all the music theory I did years ago, all I know is that when listening to much of Messians organ music, it really takes you to another place. Amazing stuff
Mode 3 at 6:00 sounds like the beginning to Allan Holdsworth's "Wardenclffe Tower" The "Modes Of Limited Transposition"was also where Anthony Jackson got his playing approach. He stated that in an issue of Guitar Player mag back in the early eighties. Listen to his solo in Steve Khan's Live "The Suitcase" You'll hear the influence it in it.
I was lucky enough to meet Messiaen in 1986. Wish I could have spent some time with him! Although he really didn't like to speak English. This video is a great example of what an excellent teacher you are!
These modes can sometimes sound a bit arbitrary without an elaborate context , but listen to visions de l'amen and you get a world of expressive power. Anyone who's at all interested in this video definitely listen to that piece; it's like dying. Also Messiaen's use of rhythm is completely insane. I wouldn't even try to go into what he does rhythmically but it can't be overstated.
So Mode 3 looks like an enrichment to the augmented scale, adding an extra flat before landing every minor step, and Mode 7 looks like an enrichment to the diminished scale, splitting every odd full step. Thank you for offering this great content!
Thank Rick for this demonstration. I've heard lectures and even written papers on the modes of limited transposition, and yet your demonstration with examples was even more illuminating. I look forward to working these into my writing soon!
I came here out of recommendation from max reger’s symphonic fantasie and fugue and was not disappointed. I’m gonna study these religiously whenever i get the chance. The emotions they provoke are so exact it’s perplexing to me
Thanks for this video Rick. Fantastic as ever. I love Messiaen. His Vingt regards sur l'Enfant-Jésus is essential listening for anyone who loves piano. Keep up the great work Rick, you are an inspiration.
I like this modified octatonic scale: A B C D Ef F F# G (just one semitone modification from a regular octatonic) It contains: 7 out of 8 notes of the octatonic scale 5 out of 6 notes of the whole tone scale A stack of 5 4ths (or 5ths) 2 minor triads several 7th chords Plus several other interesting, pleasant chords. Flexible and useful. I wrote five very different-sounding compositions using it.
As far as condensed knowledge goes, this is just fantastic! I'm sharing this with my bass students and colleagues (I know many who would benefit from a "recall" on many of the covered subjects)! Great job indeed!
I love this video. II hope you'll do more analyses of classical music of the 20/21st centuries. I'm listening to Berg's violin concerto now. It would be a thrill to hear you talk about that. THANK YOU!
Rick, I am delighted to hear you talk about my favorite composer and put his theory into simpler and concise terms that a rock musician can understand. Its great as a non-music college major to have some access to music theory whenever I need it, especially from artist I really respect. Keep up the the good work
Thanks so much for your informative lectures. Especially this one which I play to my class; a certain music examination system defines the modes as only transposing ONCE! Grrrr!!!
This video is a fine way to expose us to these scales, how they are built, how they sound, and what some of their internal ramifications are. I am surprised, though, that various technical inaccuracies in this presentation have not been commented upon or caught and later fixed by Beato. One problem seems to originate from the fact that Messiaen used one word, "mode" with two different meanings. The other seems to come from the fact that Messiaen in numbering the modes, can easily lead one to referring to them in an ordinal way (first versus one, second versus two, third versus three, etc.). But we also refer to shifts in the sequence of intervals of scales as first or second mode, and so on. Also, there is a lack of clarity concerning the difference between these kind of modal shifts of a given scale and what a transposition of a scale is. For example, when Rick is discussing Messiaen's Mode One or Whole Tone scale, he gives us the scale starting on C, then says, because Messiaen tells us it has one mode, that the Whole Tone scale starting in C# is that one mode. But that is not another mode, that is a transposition. And in saying the Whole Tone has one mode, Messiaen means that the Whole Tone lacks any additional modal shifts that would change the sequence of intervals. That is, it has NO Other modes. Whole Tone already IS that one mode. Starting on C# is its transposition. The problem, I think starts off from Messiaen's nomenclature, which can twist up any instructor in trying to present them.
I'm actually kind of proud that I discovered these concepts on my own as an autodidact. And now I'm happy that I have a name for it. What a great video!
Dude first the rock n roll video and now a Messaien ? Right on man. I had no idea Quoncy Jones and Stockhausen were his pupils. I love Quartet for the end time .
Hey Rick! Awesome video as always. I've been getting into Messiaen a lot lately so it was great to hear such a well-rounded, detailed lesson about his modes of limited transposition. Also, since I know you're a huge Radiohead fan. I was playing with the Octatonic scale quite a bit the other day and I noticed that the guitar riff in the chorus of "Just" is all an octatonic scale. Pretty cool stuff I thought you might enjoy. Anyways, thanks for the epic lesson!
Rick, my faith in you is confirmed. I saw Turangalila last night, having known it for 50 years and you unlocked a vast gallery of doors today, especially into the piano part.Debussy led the way.Messian,s Quartet for the End of Time is Trane - ish. Also based on a Supreme Love.
Mode 2 reminded me of Dutilleux's Sonata for piano (especially the third movement), while mode 6 can be directly found in Ligeti's "Fanfare" for piano (the ostinato all along)
Thank you for this well made video also for me on the topic of modernity, new music, which I am currently working on through the 'Philosophy of New Music' by Adorno and other works of 'Neue Musik' literature!
A great modern example of some of these modes is Meshuggah, particularly their later stuff. Most of it uses the 2nd scale here the half whole diminished scale with the root being F. They also use the whole tone, chromatic and scale 3 from this video as well. Their lead guitar player Fredrik Thordendal bases most of his improvised solos for their music off these scales as well!
Thanks. Mode 3 looks like a whole tone scale with an added 'passing tone' every other tone. Allan Holdsworth said he used it ' to change keys' in a segment from his VHS instructional tape I saw on youtube.
Nice, I was watching Allen Holdsworth's explanation of scales and his Scale 10 'symmetrical' seems to be Messiaen's third mode; also covered in Jens Larsen's video on Holdsworth's Sixteen Men of Tain solo.
Exactly. Actually he used few of these scales cos he was influenced by Stravinsky. And Messiaen's scale was his recopilation of his own taste plus what he heard and read in Stravinsky/Bartok/Debussy/Ravel's music.
Without any allusion to Messiaen's concept of the relations between harmony and colour this is just a theoretical exercise. At best, it glimpses from afar at what Messiaen could do with harmony and especially: why he did what he did. A nice foundation this all the same.
Rick! Always so esoteric and informative, you are. I am hoping to hear you someday discuss Nicholas Slonimsky's Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns! Any plans for that? Thanks so much for all you've done and all you're doing.
Sorry for posting this 2 years later, but I think your explanation at @1:50 could be improved : There is only one mode to the whole tone scale because you cannot do any other combination, it's always going to be a serie of wholetones (in your example, Db-Eb-F-G-A-B-Db is not a mode of the wholetone scale, but a transposition). I'm no expert though, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks all these brilliant videos Rick !
Late response but would be cool to have a part 2 of this one. How to make music with these modes, both from a composition perspective but maybe more while improvising. Great vid cheers.
Hmmm. I'm pretty sure our cat was playing in Messiaen Mode Six while she walked along the keyboard the other day when I was doing some mixing in Logic.
This is theory as it should be taught: with enthusiasm, awareness, mastery and simplicity.
Many thanks for this.
I love this video so much. So much valuable information packed into one video, as always. I want to learn more Messiaen now...
Oh hey, nice to see you here
I thought her name seemed familiar
Fortunately I'm classical trained and I had the honor and pleasure of "studying" Mr. Messiaen. Stunning!
There are five basic forms to divide the octave into equal parts (NOTE: Existence of octave equivalence, enharmonic equivalence and 12 tone equal temperament is assumed in order to understand this)
FIRST BASIC FORM - TRITONE - 12 semitones divided by 2 equal parts = 6. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into 2 equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1, T2, T3, T4, T5)
Any intervallic pattern (measured in semitones) whose sum is 6 generates a mode of limited transposition. For instance:
1+5 (and its rotation 5+1)
2+4 (and its rotation 4+2)
1+1+4 (and its rotations 1+4+1/4+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 5
1+2+3 (and its rotations 2+3+1/3+1+2)
2+1+3 (and its rotations 1+3+2/3+2+1)
1+1+1+3 (and its rotations 1+1+3+1/1+3+1+1/3+1+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 4
1+1+2+2 (and its rotations 1+2+2+1/2+2+1+1/2+1+1+2/1+1+2+2) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 6
1+1+1+1+2 (and its rotations 1+1+1+2+1/1+1+2+1+1/1+2+1+1+1/2+1+1+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 7
SECOND BASIC FORM - AUGMENTED TRIAD - 12 semitones divided by 3 equal parts = 4. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into 3 equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1, T2, T3)
Any intervallic pattern (measured in semitones) whose sum is 4 generates a mode of limited transposition. For instance:
1+3 (and its rotation 3+1)
1+1+2 (and its rotations 1+2+1/2+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 3
THIRD BASIC FORM - DIMINISHED CHORD - 12 semitones divided by 4 equal parts = 3. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into 4 equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1, T2)
Any intervallic pattern (measured in semitones) whose sum is 3 generates a mode of limited transposition. For instance:
1+2 (and its rotation 2+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 2
FOURTH BASIC FORM - WHOLE TONE SCALE - 12 semitones divided by 6 equal parts = 2. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into six equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 1
FIFTH BASIC FORM - CHROMATIC SCALE- 12 semitones divided by 12 equal parts = 1. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into twelve equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0). This scale only can be divided into intervals smaller than the semitone (quarter tones, etc)
In brief, there are 16 sonorities (included the 5 basic forms listed above) with limited transposition: 7 modes of limited transposition by Messiaen and 9 remaining sonorities which are truncations of Messiaen's modes. If you are familiar with pc set theory or another combinatory tool, you can trace another interesting properties of these modes. Playing and transposing these modes is the best method to catch their particular essence.
Greetings from Bogotá, Colombia. Excellent TH-cam channel.
Great post!
Love It!
Another great video! A few other interesting facts:
-Messiaen was also a mystic and devoutly religious (but the good kind).
-He composed and performed a quartet for prisoners in a Nazi camp while a prisoner himself.
-He lived/taught in at Paris Conservatory in the winters, then composed and recorded birdsong in the Alps in the summer.
-As a young boy he carried Debussy's opera score Pelléas et Mélisande around like a favorite coloring book.
Chronochromie was the first piece by him I heard one day on the classical radio in Newport News Va in Mom's car. I thought at first it might be a Zappa classical piece. Boy was I wrong. And Happy too!
I like to call Messiaen's Mode 7, Antidominant since it has literally EVERYTHING but the major 3rd and flat 7th.
That's some depth, bro!
I mean I get it, but if the mode starts from C you still have G-B-D-F in there soo...😂
My favorite French composer and one of my favorite composers overall.
Toru Takemitsu (who loves Messiaen's music) use the whole tone scale, the octatonic and most of the time, the w-1/2-1/2 scale as a fundamental part of his music, specially in his early and latest years of his life.
Takemitsu was the one who introduced me to both modern Japanese music, but also modern Japanese cinema.
I don't understand your notation w-1/2-1/2 . What scale is it (in semitones notation or notes)? is it one of Messaien's mode or another particular to Toru Takemitsu ?
If we start on C, for example:
C-D (W) -> Eb-E (1/2) -> F-F# (1/2), it's part of Messiaen's, "Third Mode," which follows and repeats the intervals: W--1/2--1/2... so an entire scale could be: C-D, Eb-E, F-F#, G#-Bb, B-C, Db-D. :) Toru used this mode in a lot of his compositions, borrowing it from Messiaen. :)
One of my favourite Takemitsu pieces is, "All In Twilight II: Dark;"--check out versions by Giacomo Fiore, and Franz Halasz!
Takemitsu was the man. I also love his essays
glad to see someone appreciating Takemitsu's music. in his earlier carrier he was quite the Messiaen Fan boy ^^
Rick is the man! For anyone reading this, besides the more commonly used modes discussed here like the diminished and whole tone, Allan uses the 3rd mode of limited transposition all the time. It's part of his signature sound for going outside. Listen to Allan's City Nights at the 1:47 mark. He plays licks like that or variations all the time. In Allan's REH instructional video he calls this mode simply the symmetrical scale.
Yep, I heard that immediately. It lays on the fingerboard well!
„Danke schön“ for explaining, Rick!
Time Stamp 5:58
I instantly think of Allan Holdsworth on Synthaxe and I think of Star Trek for some weird reason!
That REH video has some of my favorite Holdsworth solos. I listen to it over and over. Even have it burn to a disc for listening in the car. It's insane.
I've forgotten all the music theory I did years ago, all I know is that when listening to much of Messians organ music, it really takes you to another place. Amazing stuff
Mode 3 at 6:00 sounds like the beginning to Allan Holdsworth's "Wardenclffe Tower"
The "Modes Of Limited Transposition"was also where Anthony Jackson got his playing approach.
He stated that in an issue of Guitar Player mag back in the early eighties.
Listen to his solo in Steve Khan's Live "The Suitcase"
You'll hear the influence it in it.
I was lucky enough to meet Messiaen in 1986. Wish I could have spent some time with him! Although he really didn't like to speak English. This video is a great example of what an excellent teacher you are!
I adore Messiaen...I even dedicated a composition of mine to him...pure genius!
This is one of my favorite episodes you've ever done, Rick! I love these sounds! I will be experimenting with this stuff from now on.
These modes can sometimes sound a bit arbitrary without an elaborate context , but listen to visions de l'amen and you get a world of expressive power. Anyone who's at all interested in this video definitely listen to that piece; it's like dying. Also Messiaen's use of rhythm is completely insane. I wouldn't even try to go into what he does rhythmically but it can't be overstated.
"Quartet for the End of Time". Haunting. Written while Messiaen was a prisoner of the Nazis.
So Mode 3 looks like an enrichment to the augmented scale, adding an extra flat before landing every minor step, and Mode 7 looks like an enrichment to the diminished scale, splitting every odd full step. Thank you for offering this great content!
Thank you Rick! I have played and loved Messiaen's piano music for many years. I appreciate how concisely you explain his styles.
Thank Rick for this demonstration. I've heard lectures and even written papers on the modes of limited transposition, and yet your demonstration with examples was even more illuminating. I look forward to working these into my writing soon!
I came here out of recommendation from max reger’s symphonic fantasie and fugue and was not disappointed. I’m gonna study these religiously whenever i get the chance. The emotions they provoke are so exact it’s perplexing to me
Thanks for this video Rick. Fantastic as ever. I love Messiaen. His Vingt regards sur l'Enfant-Jésus is essential listening for anyone who loves piano. Keep up the great work Rick, you are an inspiration.
I like this modified octatonic scale:
A B C D Ef F F# G (just one semitone modification from a regular octatonic)
It contains:
7 out of 8 notes of the octatonic scale
5 out of 6 notes of the whole tone scale
A stack of 5 4ths (or 5ths)
2 minor triads
several 7th chords
Plus several other interesting, pleasant chords.
Flexible and useful. I wrote five very different-sounding compositions using it.
As far as condensed knowledge goes, this is just fantastic! I'm sharing this with my bass students and colleagues (I know many who would benefit from a "recall" on many of the covered subjects)! Great job indeed!
Messiaen was one of the Modernist era's great geniuses. Like the Beethoven of his day.
I really love Messiaen's concepts. There is so much interesting melodic and harmonic content that you can pull from his scales.
I love this video. II hope you'll do more analyses of classical music of the 20/21st centuries. I'm listening to Berg's violin concerto now. It would be a thrill to hear you talk about that. THANK YOU!
I just discovered this channel and Rick is a tremendous teacher. Thanks so much!
these scales have a really ''messianic'' sound!
That pun made me real cross
Lord take those bloody sardines off my Ondes Martenot
Really interesting lesson. My ears and my mind are finally starting to get diminished harmonies. This class took me several steps further.
I like the way you so obviously appreciate it at an aesthetic level.
Rick, I am delighted to hear you talk about my favorite composer and put his theory into simpler and concise terms that a rock musician can understand. Its great as a non-music college major to have some access to music theory whenever I need it, especially from artist I really respect. Keep up the the good work
Thank you Maestro Beato, you really teach.
Thanks so much for your informative lectures. Especially this one which I play to my class; a certain music examination system defines the modes as only transposing ONCE! Grrrr!!!
This video is a fine way to expose us to these scales, how they are built, how they sound, and what some of their internal ramifications are. I am surprised, though, that various technical inaccuracies in this presentation have not been commented upon or caught and later fixed by Beato. One problem seems to originate from the fact that Messiaen used one word, "mode" with two different meanings. The other seems to come from the fact that Messiaen in numbering the modes, can easily lead one to referring to them in an ordinal way (first versus one, second versus two, third versus three, etc.). But we also refer to shifts in the sequence of intervals of scales as first or second mode, and so on. Also, there is a lack of clarity concerning the difference between these kind of modal shifts of a given scale and what a transposition of a scale is. For example, when Rick is discussing Messiaen's Mode One or Whole Tone scale, he gives us the scale starting on C, then says, because Messiaen tells us it has one mode, that the Whole Tone scale starting in C# is that one mode. But that is not another mode, that is a transposition. And in saying the Whole Tone has one mode, Messiaen means that the Whole Tone lacks any additional modal shifts that would change the sequence of intervals. That is, it has NO Other modes. Whole Tone already IS that one mode. Starting on C# is its transposition. The problem, I think starts off from Messiaen's nomenclature, which can twist up any instructor in trying to present them.
This video just changed my life
I'm actually kind of proud that I discovered these concepts on my own as an autodidact. And now I'm happy that I have a name for it. What a great video!
Beautiful lesson, excellent guidepost for those interested in these harmonies
love this ! thank you ! beautiful sounds !
So in my studies Messiaen has been coming up quite a bit, thank you for the break down.
Dude first the rock n roll video and now a Messaien ? Right on man. I had no idea Quoncy Jones and Stockhausen were his pupils. I love Quartet for the end time .
Man, thanks a lot, I liked Messiaen's work but I never grasped this perspective to his music. Man, thanks a lot.
A lot of magic on this TH-cam channel !
Hey Rick! Awesome video as always. I've been getting into Messiaen a lot lately so it was great to hear such a well-rounded, detailed lesson about his modes of limited transposition. Also, since I know you're a huge Radiohead fan. I was playing with the Octatonic scale quite a bit the other day and I noticed that the guitar riff in the chorus of "Just" is all an octatonic scale. Pretty cool stuff I thought you might enjoy. Anyways, thanks for the epic lesson!
Rick, my faith in you is confirmed. I saw Turangalila last night, having known it for 50 years and you unlocked a vast gallery of doors today, especially into the piano part.Debussy led the way.Messian,s Quartet for the End of Time is Trane - ish. Also based on a Supreme Love.
You are a music addict . I say that In a good way. We need people like you to push us further . It Is Impressive . You have made music your life.
Mode 2 reminded me of Dutilleux's Sonata for piano (especially the third movement), while mode 6 can be directly found in Ligeti's "Fanfare" for piano (the ostinato all along)
Messiaen is a genius
Love it!
Very King Diamond.
thank you thank you thank you i am on a BIG Messiaen trip = loved him so much in school now i am BACK !!!
Excellent, Rick. Thank you.
Like always, thanks a million Rick!!!
Yes! This is something I actually studied a lot, can't wait to hear what you have to say on it!
2:24 (Modo 1)
4:14 (Modo 2)
5:59 (Modo 3)
7:38 (Modo 4)
9:43 (Modo 5)
10:18 - 12:17 (Modo 6)
13:44 (Modo 7)
12:44 Modo 7
Obg pela ajuda
@@pedrocacao8785 Obrigados Panfeon777 e Pedro Cacao
Thank you so much! Great explanation!!
Thank you for this well made video also for me on the topic of modernity, new music, which I am currently working on through the 'Philosophy of New Music' by Adorno and other works of 'Neue Musik' literature!
Your educational field goes to the infinity
Sir, you will go to heaven. Thank you for this video.
A great modern example of some of these modes is Meshuggah, particularly their later stuff. Most of it uses the 2nd scale here the half whole diminished scale with the root being F. They also use the whole tone, chromatic and scale 3 from this video as well. Their lead guitar player Fredrik Thordendal bases most of his improvised solos for their music off these scales as well!
Awesome! Loved everyone's comments, lots of info for further investigation.
Came here after Nelson Veras video. Rick is definitely a beast!
I like how quickly you got on with it!
Thanks. Mode 3 looks like a whole tone scale with an added 'passing tone' every other tone. Allan Holdsworth said he used it ' to change keys' in a segment from his VHS instructional tape I saw on youtube.
This is awesome! Thanks so much!
Kid A, Radiohead's album, was influenced by this composer. Hats off
Those videos are the best!
you are a really cool dude man...txs for your vids..
Nice, I was watching Allen Holdsworth's explanation of scales and his Scale 10 'symmetrical' seems to be Messiaen's third mode; also covered in Jens Larsen's video on Holdsworth's Sixteen Men of Tain solo.
Great for soundscaping. I suspect Robert Fripp uses these quite a bit.
Exactly. Actually he used few of these scales cos he was influenced by Stravinsky. And Messiaen's scale was his recopilation of his own taste plus what he heard and read in Stravinsky/Bartok/Debussy/Ravel's music.
thank you! this was an eye opener
Without any allusion to Messiaen's concept of the relations between harmony and colour this is just a theoretical exercise. At best, it glimpses from afar at what Messiaen could do with harmony and especially: why he did what he did. A nice foundation this all the same.
the recorded example of the octatonic scale immediately brought to mind Fantasia on a them by Thomas Tallis.
Another famous (in France) composer & Messiaen student, who took over his chair after he died, was Betsy Jolas.
just .... thank YOU mister.
Rick - check out Nelson Veras, a Brazilian jazz guitarist that uses modes 3 & 4 quite a bit. His self-titled release is amazing.
Thank you for the tip! I'm brazilian and I didn't know Nelson Veras
Also flutist Magic Malik, pianist Jozef Dumoulin, sax player Bo van der Werf and some more, all musical partners of Veras!
This is awesome!!
14:38 That's a cool sounding suspended chord. I hear that a lot in the early episodes X-Files.
Always greatly useful! :)
Thanks Rick! Useful stuff!
Rick! Always so esoteric and informative, you are. I am hoping to hear you someday discuss Nicholas Slonimsky's Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns! Any plans for that? Thanks so much for all you've done and all you're doing.
I need to find my book again. I was going to do a video pn it but can't find it. I may need to buy another one.
Thanks for the reply, Rick. Amazon has 'em for around $21 used and $24 new at the moment.
Hey Ed - I haven't heard him talk about Zappa except when he interviewed Vai, so I wonder what his thoughts are on FZ's modern classical pieces.
Eros Delorenzi you could use a two handed tapping technique, separating the ead and gbe strings between your left and right hands
Woot! More please!
Sorry for posting this 2 years later, but I think your explanation at @1:50 could be improved :
There is only one mode to the whole tone scale because you cannot do any other combination, it's always going to be a serie of wholetones (in your example, Db-Eb-F-G-A-B-Db is not a mode of the wholetone scale, but a transposition).
I'm no expert though, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks all these brilliant videos Rick !
Late response but would be cool to have a part 2 of this one. How to make music with these modes, both from a composition perspective but maybe more while improvising. Great vid cheers.
Ha! Thought I was cool for using 2 of these. Wait there's more? (There's always more, and I love that) Thank you Rick
This is great stuff.
I tried composing with this, but I kept... Messiaen it up. 🤦♂️
Ba-dum tss
@@LordBrozart I’m a dumb Dad. I make dumb Dad jokes. It’s what I do...
The chords at around 3:00 were used in the Zelda: Ocarina of Time OST for the Ice Cavern I think.
This is a great video.
Yeah I'm definitely using those augmented triads together.
10/10 Stravinsky would approve
actually Stravinsky said
“All you need to write like him [Messiaen] is a large bottle of ink."
Great stuff sir.
Mode 7 is beautiful!
Nice Rick. Lots of meat on the musical bone here.
Have you checked out the Elliot Carter Harmony book?
All of the modes are just symmetrical divisions of the octave. Either copied or mirrored.
Amazing.
Fantastic!
Mode #3 is Holdsworth all the way. Thanks so much for sharing hope you are well and happy God loves you deeply Shalom 🎸 🔊🏞️⛰️🏔️🎇✨🎊🎉🎆🐕🎈
Excellent! Thx
Did mesiaen not write about the augmented scale ? Half step one and a half step repeating ?
Fantastic Rick! Could you delve into more topics of Messiaen's book in later videos?
Cheers I think of holdsworth when I hear these modes especially the 3rd one
Hmmm. I'm pretty sure our cat was playing in Messiaen Mode Six while she walked along the keyboard the other day when I was doing some mixing in Logic.
at 1:52 dont you mean it's one TRANSPOSITION would be a half step above - not mode?