@@_Chev_Chelios We, or at least I, learned a lot more than that. For example, how far cars have come on such a few short years that a car can go round a circuit faster than a much more powerful slightly older one, because of chassis, steering and transmission improvements.
@@_Chev_Chelios wish they had put semi-slicks on the 650s. Given the McLaren is a superb comfortable GT car as well as a track weapon, the RS is just a one trick pony by comparison. Not that it's not a bad trick.
@@Kelveron the tires made a bigger difference than all that. The McLaren was on street tires that did well in the wet and the RS was on semi-slicks that are going to add a couple more seconds or more.
Not taking anything away from the Porsche but all I’ve got to say is semi slicks and the right weather clearly make a huge difference. It’d be nice to see them both on comparable tyres at least but preferably the same. An interesting comparison none the less!
Admittedly as much as the Cayman lost the first race due to its tires, it probably won the second due to its tires, but what a glorious machine regardless of the laptime!
Actually the McLaren almost certainly had better tyres on for the dry conditions. Don't be fooled by the sun. The video was shot late winter/early spring in the UK. The temp was probably no more than 5-7 degrees C. WAY below what Cup2's need to perform at their best. If the McLaren had pretty much any UHP road tyre on it, it would have had better (though still far from ideal) tyres on for those temperatures.
@@lewiskariukimunene Tires can easily be changed (and often are if you're driving these cars properly). It's a bit more difficult to get 150 more HP in a Cayman...
@@lewiskariukimunene Michelin claims their Cup R tyres are equivalent to a 150 HP increase on a 520 HP car. So the Cup 2 compared to the standard PZero of the 650S are definitely matching the power gap between both cars. But it's still not fair to compare 2014 and 2021 models...
@@jimg2812 my bad, 650S on Cup2 then. No idea what the 650S was wearing, they didn’t say, but they certainly are not an aggressive tire like the Cup2 given its performance in the rain.
@@f1andrew52 would have been a different outcome with same tires. Gee surprisingly the decade old 650s performs extremely well even at today's standards
I missed 5th Gear so much and so happy to see you back. What a great video, I love to see you having so much fun. Here in Canada, late May for a track adventure with my brother and our sons! Keep us the great work. Not very often does the passion filter beyond the screen!
Great video, but you should have mentioned the Porsches tire advantage in the dry like the Macs in the wet. On the same rubber the McLaren will certainly be the faster car based on this test. Two absolutely epic cars though!!
Die sollt man gar nicht vergleichen... McLaren Preis:255.000€ Porsche GT4 RS 142.000 (ohne Club Sport). Turbo gegen Sauger. Da hätte Porsche GT2 RS besser gepasst (Neupreis 267.000€) aber da würde McLaren alt aussehen.
Isn’t there a Mclaren warranty for about £4K a year? It just winds me up that prices quoted in the press are never the actual prices you can get the cars for. If only anyone could buy an GT4 RS for £108K.
What a great video. If only I could drive like Jason Plato! Amazing to see him drive both cars flat out on the track!! I have owned a 650S and it is an incredible piece of kit. Not many cars today can match it for straight line performance. If only McLaren's were easier to sell on the used car market. I drove the GT4 RS in the Italian mountains late last year and it is sublime. Possibly the perfect sports car!
I would mclaren nz actually let me sit in a 12c a wee while back so its a thumbs up for me and in the hypothetical situation i win lotto its on the shopping list shall we say
As is almost always the case with these flawed yet entertaining Fifth Gear tests, there remains an issue. For the comparisons the be fair, ALWAYS fit the same tyres to both vehicles. Surely that would have been cheaper than spending a second day filming.
Whilst I agree with you, shouldn't these cars also be tested as presented/bought/stock too? I don't think most testers/magazines/channels swap out tyres in order to reduce variables (beyond weather, location etc)
I’ll take my 650s all day. Plus the prices quoted are hilarious you can’t get a Gt4rs for list or even close! Plus mclaren depends where ya live in USA a good well optioned one with low miles is >$150k but still less than GT4RS. Plus drop the top on the 650s & it’s an entirely different experience.. both great but I’d still choose my 650s
Thanks Jason - so impressed with your wet driving in the 650s ... I have one (Coupe - it's lighter) and personally I find it truly terrifying in the wet ... especially at Coombe! 🙂
Try some Michelin Pilot Sport GT P2L's in the wet, I think you will struggle to lose traction. I have about 850hp at the wheels and they grip for me full throttle from the Apex.
Glad you reran with better weather, but the cars still didn't have matching tires. If you did, I'd bet it would be a dead heat with the 650S on Cup 2s. Regardless, shows how sorted the RS chassis is to overcome such a power deficit.
I had the privilege of being there that day in the wet and got a ride in the gt4rs, shame it had cup2s on however what a car, the sound alone was incredible for a modern car!.
Great test in the sense that one is an older supercar with far more power and the other is more modern, more track focused, but less power. Interesting comparison and I'm here for it
At 11:15… AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!! The 650S is insane & already done with it’s massive depreciation, so I would get that - but props to the GT4 RS for the win! Great comparo!
this is crazy. I had a F80 Comp and in rain I lost only 2 sec per round to 720s. In rain around 2 min lap. Tyres make such a big difference. With Cup2:s you can't do much in rain.
While I love both the cars. Why not make it day 3. And fit both with exact same tire 🛞 in dry conditions. I am willing to bet McLaren wins the lap times. But for me the sound alone on GT4 RS does it. My choice even if it’s slower.
Using your price quotes the 650 is a steal. I am furious (jealous) at Porsche. I have been trying for almost 2yrs to get a gt4rs. Why can’t I? Because the dealerhips won’t let me since I am not a previous Porsche owner from them. I did find some that will let me get on their 2024 allocation list if I pay $75k USD above sticker. I am so pissed I hate them (because I would love to buy it but it is already a premium priced car before all the mark ups and games).
Something has gone wrong on your progressive/interlaced settings guys. Very zig zag and aliased on many shots. Loved the piece though on a tough wet shoot!
But what tyres did the McLaren have on the dry lap? Same tyres that were made for the wet? If it's fair to have the correct tyres for the conditions then the McLaren should have had dry weather tyres.
The difference is NOT subtle - Pilot Sport 4s road tyres on mine are good, but go off quickly on a circuit - I run a Trofeo R for circuit work and it's the difference of SECONDS with no extra effort!
@@jonah406 I realise that, thanks. The increased weight of painting the bonnet would make a negligible difference to the overall weight but would improve the aesthetics hugely.
What tires did the McLaren have? If it did so well in the wet, I can only imagine they were less hardcore than Cup 2's for dry duty. I really struggle to imagine that the GT4 RS can be as fast on equivalent rubber, even though I worship that Porsche.
You Sir are an absolutely wonderful driver. Yes, I am a devoted Porsche lover, but there is something about the McLaren pedigree that makes it a very special car as well.
good luck getting a GT4 RS for 108k, try 200k.... why reviewers ignore the UK price is for very few "special" customers and is not for the general public.... so price wise the RS is way more expensive, but it is "new" although interior is also years old now... try about 7 - 8 years out of date with the 911 interior
No comparative test on any cars can be done if all cars don't have the same tyres. They do that nany times in bike tests. Give them only that on an equal base. I want the GT4RS..
The key is when Jason says with the 650s , it is hard to find fault. And there lies the rub. I love performance cars, but McLarens lack character and charisma. The key to this and every Porsche is that they have caveats. THAT is the key. Perfection has to be imperfect. I'd have the Porsche every single time, because of how involving it is, how it makes you feel part of the experience, rather than sitting in something with the name you'd expect on a vacuum cleaner, with the same level of character. Just my opinion.
Lotus are bringing out the 133 soon to take on the Porsche Taycan, I wonder how their previous fastest 4-door would do against one though? Lotus Carlton v Porsche Taycan.
Problem is … your CANNOT get a Gt4RS for list price…. Maybe add another £120k … so twice the MSRP 😵💫…. Also just watching how hard you are working the Porsche tells me that majority of other less talented drivers would have been off numerous times… ergo; for the “normal” driver, the Macca is a better buy…
they seem fairly equal on the corners, possibly similar aerodynamics, but the McLaren should gain more speed on a track with long straights. McLaren is limited production and uses more expensive materials, engine and transmission so obviously it's going to cost more. Porsche is a very well built car, looks amazing, best looking Porsche, with a low price for performance, and very track focused pretty close to a GT4 cup car, to me it feels the model reached to a point where I don't see what can be done to make it better, but we'll see.
Make sure you watch until the end for an amazing result!
Actually an astonishing result
So, different cars AND different tires. So we’ve learned precisely NOTHING except different tires are different.
@@_Chev_Chelios We, or at least I, learned a lot more than that. For example, how far cars have come on such a few short years that a car can go round a circuit faster than a much more powerful slightly older one, because of chassis, steering and transmission improvements.
@@_Chev_Chelios wish they had put semi-slicks on the 650s. Given the McLaren is a superb comfortable GT car as well as a track weapon, the RS is just a one trick pony by comparison. Not that it's not a bad trick.
@@Kelveron the tires made a bigger difference than all that. The McLaren was on street tires that did well in the wet and the RS was on semi-slicks that are going to add a couple more seconds or more.
Not taking anything away from the Porsche but all I’ve got to say is semi slicks and the right weather clearly make a huge difference. It’d be nice to see them both on comparable tyres at least but preferably the same. An interesting comparison none the less!
Admittedly as much as the Cayman lost the first race due to its tires, it probably won the second due to its tires, but what a glorious machine regardless of the laptime!
exactly
Actually the McLaren almost certainly had better tyres on for the dry conditions. Don't be fooled by the sun. The video was shot late winter/early spring in the UK. The temp was probably no more than 5-7 degrees C. WAY below what Cup2's need to perform at their best. If the McLaren had pretty much any UHP road tyre on it, it would have had better (though still far from ideal) tyres on for those temperatures.
@@jamesmay1322 no , no sale soz . good try Michael Fish
Interested to see what the 650s would be like on the same tyres as the Porsche
Interested to see what the Porsche would do with 150 more HP
@@lewiskariukimunene Tires can easily be changed (and often are if you're driving these cars properly). It's a bit more difficult to get 150 more HP in a Cayman...
@@sebdavid yeah this is true though I meant if Porsche made it with 650HP
I don’t think the McLaren is running on 10 year old tires, do you? Plus the Porsche is running Sport Cup tires, not good for the rain.
@@lewiskariukimunene Michelin claims their Cup R tyres are equivalent to a 150 HP increase on a 520 HP car. So the Cup 2 compared to the standard PZero of the 650S are definitely matching the power gap between both cars. But it's still not fair to compare 2014 and 2021 models...
The helmet Jason is wearing is epic! They should use it in F1.
Obviously you need a third race with the 650s on Cup2Rs, then you can see an actual fair fight.
The 4RS was not on R tires, just the regular Cup2, what did the 650 have?
@@jimg2812 my bad, 650S on Cup2 then. No idea what the 650S was wearing, they didn’t say, but they certainly are not an aggressive tire like the Cup2 given its performance in the rain.
The 650s had Michelin PS4S both days.
@@f1andrew52 would have been a different outcome with same tires.
Gee surprisingly the decade old 650s performs extremely well even at today's standards
I’ll happily lend them the car again if they buy some Cup2s for it 😊
Most negative comments here did not watch till the end.
Kudos to the Fifth Gear team for organizing a later test with better weather.
I only watch the end.
I missed 5th Gear so much and so happy to see you back. What a great video, I love to see you having so much fun. Here in Canada, late May for a track adventure with my brother and our sons! Keep us the great work. Not very often does the passion filter beyond the screen!
Great video, but you should have mentioned the Porsches tire advantage in the dry like the Macs in the wet. On the same rubber the McLaren will certainly be the faster car based on this test. Two absolutely epic cars though!!
My thought exactly
Die sollt man gar nicht vergleichen...
McLaren Preis:255.000€
Porsche GT4 RS 142.000 (ohne Club Sport).
Turbo gegen Sauger.
Da hätte Porsche GT2 RS besser gepasst (Neupreis 267.000€) aber da würde McLaren alt aussehen.
I agree that they shouldn’t be compared. Autotrader has the GT4 RS for selling for £230K, but you can pick a 650s up for under £100K!
@@MrJohnnyRoyale Now just estimate monthly repairs.
Isn’t there a Mclaren warranty for about £4K a year? It just winds me up that prices quoted in the press are never the actual prices you can get the cars for. If only anyone could buy an GT4 RS for £108K.
Would love both of these fantastic cars. Problem with the GT4 RS is that at current used prices it's about £140K more than the 650S!
High end flippers are glorified ticket scalpers.
Это и есть особенность Порше... новую не купить а подержанные дороже новых!😢
Cayman it's a joke.. Who will buy that toy cayman if he can buy amg gt? Seriusly
@@commantrosexetlos4700 lol don't insult a Porsche to a Mercedes
True story, I had a dream last night that Porsche announced the GT4 RS in manual. I guess I'll go back to sleep. Great video again!
What a great video. If only I could drive like Jason Plato! Amazing to see him drive both cars flat out on the track!! I have owned a 650S and it is an incredible piece of kit. Not many cars today can match it for straight line performance. If only McLaren's were easier to sell on the used car market. I drove the GT4 RS in the Italian mountains late last year and it is sublime. Possibly the perfect sports car!
Any new Scud videos o9n the horizon?
So it was slower, but who would not want the chance to own a McLaren. What stunning looking car!
I wouldn’t, Mclaren does nothing for me. Sorry.
I would mclaren nz actually let me sit in a 12c a wee while back so its a thumbs up for me and in the hypothetical situation i win lotto its on the shopping list shall we say
I would take the GT4 any day. It is perfection.
If you want to be stuck on the side of the motorway with your hazard lights on, yeah get the Mclaren.
@@DonLee1980 Part of the "ownership experience"... Sounds like fun...
As is almost always the case with these flawed yet entertaining Fifth Gear tests, there remains an issue. For the comparisons the be fair, ALWAYS fit the same tyres to both vehicles. Surely that would have been cheaper than spending a second day filming.
Exactly. Cup2s on the 650S would easily shave a couple of seconds off its time.
@@yeeehaar The 720s coupe ran .7secs faster there, such a short track is not going to easily gain 2 secs.
My thoughts exactly
@@mathewsinger4214 obviously the driver, I get 1.11’s in my Caterham and that’s not at full tilt. A 7.20 would piss that with sticky Pirelli’s.
Whilst I agree with you, shouldn't these cars also be tested as presented/bought/stock too? I don't think most testers/magazines/channels swap out tyres in order to reduce variables (beyond weather, location etc)
I’ll take my 650s all day. Plus the prices quoted are hilarious you can’t get a Gt4rs for list or even close! Plus mclaren depends where ya live in USA a good well optioned one with low miles is >$150k but still less than GT4RS. Plus drop the top on the 650s & it’s an entirely different experience.. both great but I’d still choose my 650s
The scream of the GT4s engine above 7,5k is just glorious
Your passion it's contagious, I just love and respect your neutrality. Love both machine but I keep the Porsche Cayman RS.
Thanks Jason - so impressed with your wet driving in the 650s ... I have one (Coupe - it's lighter) and personally I find it truly terrifying in the wet ... especially at Coombe! 🙂
Try some Michelin Pilot Sport GT P2L's in the wet, I think you will struggle to lose traction. I have about 850hp at the wheels and they grip for me full throttle from the Apex.
The best 5th Gear episode of all times was the Mclaren 12C vs Ferrari 458 with Tiff Needel and Jason Plato.
"The steering wheel was molded to Lewis Hamilton's hands."
"I think this is Jenson's bottom as well..."
Glad you reran with better weather, but the cars still didn't have matching tires. If you did, I'd bet it would be a dead heat with the 650S on Cup 2s. Regardless, shows how sorted the RS chassis is to overcome such a power deficit.
I had the privilege of being there that day in the wet and got a ride in the gt4rs, shame it had cup2s on however what a car, the sound alone was incredible for a modern car!.
Great test in the sense that one is an older supercar with far more power and the other is more modern, more track focused, but less power. Interesting comparison and I'm here for it
What a legend driving with semi slicks in the rain 🌧. Incredible!
I appreciate you going back during drier conditions. 👌🏾
Jason just came straight from a shooting party
😂😂😂
What a superb video, loved every moment 💥
Adore my 650s great video !
What a wonderful test, of two different sets of tyres.
Great review Jason. I'd like to see a comparison between a Porsche 718 Spyder and a 911 convertible. Cheers from a Canadian fan.
GT4RS... naturally aspirated... long may they remain. Possible legend the 4RS.
Cmon Jason. £108k for a GT4RS 😂 that might be list but there are just 3 on auto trader all at £235k+
That GT4 RS will never go below £200K.
At 11:15… AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!! The 650S is insane & already done with it’s massive depreciation, so I would get that - but props to the GT4 RS for the win! Great comparo!
That RS sound 🤯
Would like to know what time the McLaren would do in the dry with the same semi-slick tyres as the Porsche?
I enjoyed that a lot! Almost as much as Jason!
I understand content deadlines, but please educate this philistine on the simple question of "why couldn't you just change the tyres?"
GT4RS is just perfection.
this is crazy. I had a F80 Comp and in rain I lost only 2 sec per round to 720s. In rain around 2 min lap. Tyres make such a big difference. With Cup2:s you can't do much in rain.
Would gladly pick that NA Cayman over the McLaren. Plus I like build qualities that at least match a Golf’s, which isnt really the case in a McLaren.
100% I would have the GT4RS the sound incredible the one i would have. Thank you Jason
I will take The Porsche!
That McLaren is beast though
@@thembanimdlalose5229But a Porsche is a Porsche. More Special for me. Sound and Quality. But Both Are good Cars
I love both, but I’d take the RS any day. If it was a 675LT then that would be a very hard choice.
Yes is the new shootout coming soon
Good luck finding a GT4 at list price
Put cup 2s on the McLaren and get a lap time in the dry.
While I love both the cars. Why not make it day 3. And fit both with exact same tire 🛞 in dry conditions.
I am willing to bet McLaren wins the lap times.
But for me the sound alone on GT4 RS does it. My choice even if it’s slower.
Very exciting to watch.
If the McLaren had cup 2s on the dry track it would of put those seven seconds it had in the wet track on the Porsche
Loved this. Although I'm not sure where you can find a GT4RS for £108k? They're over double that, second hand!
and base price of £123k new (before options) not £108k
Using your price quotes the 650 is a steal. I am furious (jealous) at Porsche. I have been trying for almost 2yrs to get a gt4rs. Why can’t I? Because the dealerhips won’t let me since I am not a previous Porsche owner from them. I did find some that will let me get on their 2024 allocation list if I pay $75k USD above sticker. I am so pissed I hate them (because I would love to buy it but it is already a premium priced car before all the mark ups and games).
What a challenge 👍🏼
Get the Mclaren on the Pilot Cups and I think it would win
Great video. 👍. Would love to see a shootout between the Audi 2018 TTRS (mine is available if needed) and the new RS3 8y.
Great video! Thanks!
P O R S C H E 💥 Period 😎
Just shows you tires are more of a performance maker than anything else.
Lovely video keep 'em coming !
Something has gone wrong on your progressive/interlaced settings guys. Very zig zag and aliased on many shots. Loved the piece though on a tough wet shoot!
Considering the 650 is less than half the money of the 4rs in the current market, what a bargain.
@8:12 pure skill
A 675LT vs GT4 RS would be fairer challenge.
Especially as both are similar price on the s/h market
La McLaren sans hésitation.❤
Crazy impressive how great the 650 spyder is
The ol' geezer has some quick hands, even to this day! Well don Plato :)
What tires were on the 650S?
Michelin PS4S
@@f1andrew52 which explains why they were better in the wet and worse in the dry...
The gt4rs is anywhere from $263k-$300k usd… Mac ftw 😂
But what tyres did the McLaren have on the dry lap? Same tyres that were made for the wet? If it's fair to have the correct tyres for the conditions then the McLaren should have had dry weather tyres.
Some points felt like Damian Lewis speaking in Billions character.
What if the Mc 650 had cup2 tyres 🤔
The difference is NOT subtle - Pilot Sport 4s road tyres on mine are good, but go off quickly on a circuit - I run a Trofeo R for circuit work and it's the difference of SECONDS with no extra effort!
when a professional racing driver is having this much fun in these cars it just shows that they are not even remotely made for us mortals 🤘😎🤘😂😂😂😂
Plato looking and starting to even sound like Brian Johnstone! Bit faster version of obvs
My thoughts exactly!
One has double wishbone suspension and a carbon tub, the other has a 4-wheel STRUT suspension and not carbon tubbed
Porche everytime for build quality and reliability!
Mclaren ❤
The awful black bonnet needs to be painted body-colour. Both wonderful cars.
That’s carbon fibre, reduces kerb weight, even the badge is plastic
You can get the standard non-Weissach package. That has a body coloured hood.
@@jonah406 I realise that, thanks. The increased weight of painting the bonnet would make a negligible difference to the overall weight but would improve the aesthetics hugely.
@@resnonverba137 according to you. Your opinion. You state your preference like it’s fact lol.
Porsche ❤️
Porsche there are no substitutes!
What tires did the McLaren have? If it did so well in the wet, I can only imagine they were less hardcore than Cup 2's for dry duty. I really struggle to imagine that the GT4 RS can be as fast on equivalent rubber, even though I worship that Porsche.
It was running Michelin PS4S on both days.
@@f1andrew52 I think that's it, right there. The 4S is a great tire, but it's no Cup 2.
You Sir are an absolutely wonderful driver. Yes, I am a devoted Porsche lover, but there is something about the McLaren pedigree that makes it a very special car as well.
It may be addressed as I'm only at the start of the video, however why are these being compared, I'd have thought they're in different price category?
You can buy a 650 S Spyder, just try and buy a Cayman GT4 RS!
I always say, tyre's are everything, if the 650 had the same tyre's as the gt4 it would be worth a second. The gt4 thought, it's is a mini hypercar.
good luck getting a GT4 RS for 108k, try 200k.... why reviewers ignore the UK price is for very few "special" customers and is not for the general public.... so price wise the RS is way more expensive, but it is "new" although interior is also years old now... try about 7 - 8 years out of date with the 911 interior
All car reviews from Britain are by law done in the rain.
No comparative test on any cars can be done if all cars don't have the same tyres. They do that nany times in bike tests. Give them only that on an equal base. I want the GT4RS..
Where can you get that Porsche for that price?
I will admit I never knew RS = Rennsport 😬
If possible please do a Chiron Vs Regera comparison.
This guy is awesome.
Did he really take off 20 seconds from it going wet to dry? Sounds like bs.
The key is when Jason says with the 650s , it is hard to find fault. And there lies the rub. I love performance cars, but McLarens lack character and charisma. The key to this and every Porsche is that they have caveats. THAT is the key. Perfection has to be imperfect.
I'd have the Porsche every single time, because of how involving it is, how it makes you feel part of the experience, rather than sitting in something with the name you'd expect on a vacuum cleaner, with the same level of character. Just my opinion.
Lotus are bringing out the 133 soon to take on the Porsche Taycan, I wonder how their previous fastest 4-door would do against one though? Lotus Carlton v Porsche Taycan.
Problem is … your CANNOT get a Gt4RS for list price…. Maybe add another £120k … so twice the MSRP 😵💫…. Also just watching how hard you are working the Porsche tells me that majority of other less talented drivers would have been off numerous times… ergo; for the “normal” driver, the Macca is a better buy…
Guys this was just a tyre comparison. The car with the semi slicks lost in the rain and won in the dry…
Not sure what we’ve really learned
Wasn't the 570S before the 650?
They always want to bash the British car ridiculous! Desperate for the Porsche to win.
Good luck trying to buy a GT4RS. Even if you wanted one.
they seem fairly equal on the corners, possibly similar aerodynamics, but the McLaren should gain more speed on a track with long straights. McLaren is limited production and uses more expensive materials, engine and transmission so obviously it's going to cost more. Porsche is a very well built car, looks amazing, best looking Porsche, with a low price for performance, and very track focused pretty close to a GT4 cup car, to me it feels the model reached to a point where I don't see what can be done to make it better, but we'll see.
that was amazing