in regards to powerlifters, can you talk about which type of deadlift (sumo or conventional) is convenient for different body structures (bone lengths) as you have done in the squatting video? thanks a lot
Personally I'd use the exact same logic as before, with the squats. If you have short tibia and torso you can get away with conventionals very easily without having to bend over too far forward, or having to push you hips/butt too far back. If you have longer femurs as compared to your tibia you will be forced to push your hips too far back, making your upper body near about as parallel to the floor as possible. With such a person it would make sense to go for a wider stance or a sumo deadlift because now your femurs are moving forward at an angle, making their straight horizontal distance to be travelled shorter (just like you saw in the squat video). This should make it much more comfortable for them to get into the right position without sandwiching their upper and lower bodies as is shown at 7:41
Thank you for sharing this! People too often judge an exercise by the way it looks from outside and never think about what is really happening inside the body!
Ive got some bad discs in the lumbar area, but have managed to re-learn the squat & deadlift with STRICT form. However i keep hurting my back when i get to a certain weight level on the deadlift. This video points out so many things that could be the source of my problem. Alternating grips causing a twist in the spine??? who would have thought?? it makes so much sense for someone with a bad back to begin with, to avoid this completely! That, among other insights abt the deaflift in this video is so great.
There is a very good reason for people to lift in the powerlifting style even if they don't compete. The advantage of a standartized lift is that we have mapped human potential pretty well in this particular movement. This means that when you measure your 1 rep max, you get an idea how much of a potential you are still missing - of course assuming that you are genetically close to the average participant in the standartized lifts.
12:48 You have to remember that some muscles are used less on the top and some on the bottom. When you lift the bar, You mostly use your quads to extend your knees, when you are over the middle, you mostly use your glutes to extend your hips to lock it.
3:05 The bar doesn't need to be in front of the knee at the bottom of the movement... because the arms are longer and hinge down. Your knee can be over the bar, and as the bar comes up the knee moves back, until it's right in front of the knee when the shin is vertical. What am I missing?
stavrojr in the case of a conventional deadlift I would agree, but it also depends on the individuals structure. I don’t know if you could say the same thing for sumo or stiff leg deadlifts
This was really good man. The twisting from a mixed grip is definitely an issue for me too (but I am a powerlifter so I kinda have to deal with it.) Either that or suck it up and try to get better at hook grip, but I'm such a baby. hahaha Great series!
How is switching your mix grip between sets not preventing muscular imbalances somewhat? If someone dead lifts one way mixed their whole life..you can see it just by looking at them. If they kept switching it wouldn't solve the problem?
+Przemyslaw Kowalczyk I think the point is more about the rotation of the spine than the potential muscle imbalances. Even if you flip the grip around, spinal rotation is still occurring with each rep in a way that could be harmful to some folks based upon their spinal structure.
He seems to be forgetting the fact that the bar only has to get passed the Knee actually at the knee. So at the start of the lift the knee can be forward infront of the bar. once you get up towards the knee is when you start using your hips and your upper body goes up (standing up) and your shin/legs start to straighten out and the bar goes past the knee.
Great video. Will use some of the tips next time for deadlifts. Would like to get your opinion on upright dips for triceps. Seems like it still works more shoulder and chest with little range of motion for tri's whyll putting a lot of stress on wrist and shoulder joints. Asking because I cannot find a good heavy tri exercise that emphasizes the medial tri and does not end up irritating my shoulder.(Heard that to activate medial tri must go heavy)
You may want to explore where you heard that, and what that conclusion is based on... But yes, upright dips will likely present an issue related to shoulder range of motion and moment arms.
Are u saying that the people who arent structural capable to deadlift to the ground won't ever be able to, or that they can eventually develop the mobility to achieve it if they want to. Because I think everybody is capable of squatting parallel, they might need to change the set up of the squat and others might need to develop the mobility and flexibility associated to the movement. Do u agree?
+JaayProdiJaay I think you might be confused as to what he means by not being structurally capable. Structurally capable does not mean 'never' in every situation.. It is situational based. What are the external variables? Where is the line of force? What limitations are you giving yourself (straight knee, bent knee, curved back, straight back, etc.). A deadlift will look different and feel different for many people. For an example lets give several hypothetical variables and say that you are using a weight that puts the line of force where the bar is, you are using a straight bar, no bend in your knees, then people with certain structural proportions may or may not be able to touch the ground due to structure. However, if you bend your knees or adjust the weight so the line of force is not where the bar is (or change any factor) you may be able to adjust it enough so you can touch the ground. Same thing with a squat. It is very situational. Also be careful not to confuse structure with flexibility. Structure is referring to your skeletal proportions and muscle attachment sights. Flexibility has to do with muscle contractile capabilities. If the shape of your bones doesn't allow your ankle to dorsiflex past 100 then it doesn't matter how 'flexible' you are because that will never change.
+JaayProdiJaay Let me give you an example, I want to powerlift. I am 6,8. I hate sumo deadlifting but after all the damn mobility and experimentation in the world i cannot train using the convential deadlift because my back is in such a shit position I'm not going to deal with the consequences. I wanted it so bad i just deluded myself that it didn't even look that bad..it did. My deadlift (convential) needs to end up being a rack pull on the lowest pins. Main point...I'm doing sumo..the form looks fine..let's hope i stay injury free for a while. I've had Mark Bell, i guy i love fucking tell me I'm making excuses and tall power lifters exist blablabla like a dumbass. Half of those tall lifters were able to deal with there horrendous form because some how there proportions were fine or their backs were made of titanium..(i think some drugs might have helped)
You don't really need a 100+ IQ to understand this guy. Deadlift is not working on any muscle, it has simply got everything to do with sports than actual physical training. Like in strong man competitions, do you go around asking folks lifting a fuckin boulder, what muscles they hitting over there? This video shouldn't have been even more than 5 seconds cuz, that "exercise" is just not doing anything for you. What do you need the "biomechanics" even for anyways?
With regards to moment arms, you missed the point you made in squat mechanics, if hip to knee is longer than knee to floor, to get into a position where you can keep your sholders over the bar whilst maintaining a neutral spine, you need to widen your stance by opening your hips and turning the feet further out (hip mobility determines how wide you can place your feet), your arms will then drop down inside your knee. You will start with a lower hip position and higher chest which transfers the load to a more quad based deadlift. Also you missed ankle flexibility in a conventional set up. When pulling from the floor to get your hips as low as possible with neutral spine, you want to set up away from the bar (a good strating point is having half of your foot infront and half behind the bar.) As you flex at the hip and knee to grab the barbell, you will end up with the knees forward over the bar and the bar will be in contact with your shin, If your ankle doesn't have the flexibility or structural ability to allow your knees to travel forward, then a switch to sumo as described above may be the most practical way to have the client deadlift. In both conventional and sumo style set ups, the knee will be forward, over the bar to some degree or another and as you lift, the aim is to have simultaneous extension of the hip and knee, meaning that the knee travels backwards to clear the way for the bar to move in a straight line.
+Dan T if you want to feel expert-like by listing the things that are not included in this video, then you should probably review this one. th-cam.com/video/7n7SOttRPEk/w-d-xo.html additionally, there is wayyyyy more missing from this video than you've listed here. don't forget - this is just youtube. this isn't "learning". attend an actual live course. dont sit back and critique the "trailers", and convince yourself you know enough about it to critique the "movie" th-cam.com/video/giEOae_yKt0/w-d-xo.html
Ok cool. It's not overlooked. Just not included. More videos in the future and of course, the actual classes are the place to learn for real. This is just TH-cam.
Strength is not client-defined. Strength is the ability to generate force against an external resistance through a complete range of motion. I think an overarching theme in these videos is that some people will always just be frail and weak by nature of their proportions. That's depressing.
Thanks Clive Owen, we really appreciate you taking a break from your movie career to help us understanding biomechanics.
Where can I purchase this biomechanical model?! Excellent video, as usual. Thanks
in regards to powerlifters, can you talk about which type of deadlift (sumo or conventional) is convenient for different body structures (bone lengths) as you have done in the squatting video? thanks a lot
Personally I'd use the exact same logic as before, with the squats.
If you have short tibia and torso you can get away with conventionals very easily without having to bend over too far forward, or having to push you hips/butt too far back.
If you have longer femurs as compared to your tibia you will be forced to push your hips too far back, making your upper body near about as parallel to the floor as possible. With such a person it would make sense to go for a wider stance or a sumo deadlift because now your femurs are moving forward at an angle, making their straight horizontal distance to be travelled shorter (just like you saw in the squat video). This should make it much more comfortable for them to get into the right position without sandwiching their upper and lower bodies as is shown at 7:41
Thank you for sharing this!
People too often judge an exercise by the way it looks from outside and never think about what is really happening inside the body!
You make a lot of really well thought out and practical statements in your videos. Thanks
Really great videos on deadlifting. Thank you.
Ive got some bad discs in the lumbar area, but have managed to re-learn the squat & deadlift with STRICT form. However i keep hurting my back when i get to a certain weight level on the deadlift. This video points out so many things that could be the source of my problem. Alternating grips causing a twist in the spine??? who would have thought?? it makes so much sense for someone with a bad back to begin with, to avoid this completely! That, among other insights abt the deaflift in this video is so great.
There is a very good reason for people to lift in the powerlifting style even if they don't compete. The advantage of a standartized lift is that we have mapped human potential pretty well in this particular movement. This means that when you measure your 1 rep max, you get an idea how much of a potential you are still missing - of course assuming that you are genetically close to the average participant in the standartized lifts.
12:48 You have to remember that some muscles are used less on the top and some on the bottom. When you lift the bar, You mostly use your quads to extend your knees, when you are over the middle, you mostly use your glutes to extend your hips to lock it.
3:05 The bar doesn't need to be in front of the knee at the bottom of the movement... because the arms are longer and hinge down. Your knee can be over the bar, and as the bar comes up the knee moves back, until it's right in front of the knee when the shin is vertical. What am I missing?
stavrojr in the case of a conventional deadlift I would agree, but it also depends on the individuals structure. I don’t know if you could say the same thing for sumo or stiff leg deadlifts
This was really good man. The twisting from a mixed grip is definitely an issue for me too (but I am a powerlifter so I kinda have to deal with it.) Either that or suck it up and try to get better at hook grip, but I'm such a baby. hahaha Great series!
Great video ! That what I am trying to tell people .
I don’t know if I learned anything about mechanism of deadlift here. Talking more about the specificity of the performer.
How is switching your mix grip between sets not preventing muscular imbalances somewhat? If someone dead lifts one way mixed their whole life..you can see it just by looking at them. If they kept switching it wouldn't solve the problem?
+Przemyslaw Kowalczyk I think the point is more about the rotation of the spine than the potential muscle imbalances. Even if you flip the grip around, spinal rotation is still occurring with each rep in a way that could be harmful to some folks based upon their spinal structure.
He seems to be forgetting the fact that the bar only has to get passed the Knee actually at the knee. So at the start of the lift the knee can be forward infront of the bar. once you get up towards the knee is when you start using your hips and your upper body goes up (standing up) and your shin/legs start to straighten out and the bar goes past the knee.
Great video. Will use some of the tips next time for deadlifts. Would like to get your opinion on upright dips for triceps. Seems like it still works more shoulder and chest with little range of motion for tri's whyll putting a lot of stress on wrist and shoulder joints. Asking because I cannot find a good heavy tri exercise that emphasizes the medial tri and does not end up irritating my shoulder.(Heard that to activate medial tri must go heavy)
You may want to explore where you heard that, and what that conclusion is based on...
But yes, upright dips will likely present an issue related to shoulder range of motion and moment arms.
I'm good at deadlifts because I've got really long arms
Are u saying that the people who arent structural capable to deadlift to the ground won't ever be able to, or that they can eventually develop the mobility to achieve it if they want to. Because I think everybody is capable of squatting parallel, they might need to change the set up of the squat and others might need to develop the mobility and flexibility associated to the movement. Do u agree?
+JaayProdiJaay I think you might be confused as to what he means by not being structurally capable. Structurally capable does not mean 'never' in every situation.. It is situational based. What are the external variables? Where is the line of force? What limitations are you giving yourself (straight knee, bent knee, curved back, straight back, etc.). A deadlift will look different and feel different for many people. For an example lets give several hypothetical variables and say that you are using a weight that puts the line of force where the bar is, you are using a straight bar, no bend in your knees, then people with certain structural proportions may or may not be able to touch the ground due to structure. However, if you bend your knees or adjust the weight so the line of force is not where the bar is (or change any factor) you may be able to adjust it enough so you can touch the ground. Same thing with a squat. It is very situational.
Also be careful not to confuse structure with flexibility. Structure is referring to your skeletal proportions and muscle attachment sights. Flexibility has to do with muscle contractile capabilities. If the shape of your bones doesn't allow your ankle to dorsiflex past 100 then it doesn't matter how 'flexible' you are because that will never change.
+JaayProdiJaay Let me give you an example, I want to powerlift. I am 6,8. I hate sumo deadlifting but after all the damn mobility and experimentation in the world i cannot train using the convential deadlift because my back is in such a shit position I'm not going to deal with the consequences. I wanted it so bad i just deluded myself that it didn't even look that bad..it did. My deadlift (convential) needs to end up being a rack pull on the lowest pins. Main point...I'm doing sumo..the form looks fine..let's hope i stay injury free for a while. I've had Mark Bell, i guy i love fucking tell me I'm making excuses and tall power lifters exist blablabla like a dumbass. Half of those tall lifters were able to deal with there horrendous form because some how there proportions were fine or their backs were made of titanium..(i think some drugs might have helped)
Wouldn't using straps result in you building less grip strength?
Probably. However grip strength isn't the goal of the exercise.
"... theoretically ...", haha!
Honestly thought these videos dragged on without much biomechanic info.
You don't really need a 100+ IQ to understand this guy.
Deadlift is not working on any muscle, it has simply got everything to do with sports than actual physical training. Like in strong man competitions, do you go around asking folks lifting a fuckin boulder, what muscles they hitting over there?
This video shouldn't have been even more than 5 seconds cuz, that "exercise" is just not doing anything for you. What do you need the "biomechanics" even for anyways?
so whats the best deadloft postion for hams development
???
Maybe the straight leg deadlift would generate more activation. But I don't know if this would translate into more hams hypertrophy
With regards to moment arms, you missed the point you made in squat mechanics, if hip to knee is longer than knee to floor, to get into a position where you can keep your sholders over the bar whilst maintaining a neutral spine, you need to widen your stance by opening your hips and turning the feet further out (hip mobility determines how wide you can place your feet), your arms will then drop down inside your knee. You will start with a lower hip position and higher chest which transfers the load to a more quad based deadlift.
Also you missed ankle flexibility in a conventional set up. When pulling from the floor to get your hips as low as possible with neutral spine, you want to set up away from the bar (a good strating point is having half of your foot infront and half behind the bar.) As you flex at the hip and knee to grab the barbell, you will end up with the knees forward over the bar and the bar will be in contact with your shin, If your ankle doesn't have the flexibility or structural ability to allow your knees to travel forward, then a switch to sumo as described above may be the most practical way to have the client deadlift.
In both conventional and sumo style set ups, the knee will be forward, over the bar to some degree or another and as you lift, the aim is to have simultaneous extension of the hip and knee, meaning that the knee travels backwards to clear the way for the bar to move in a straight line.
+Dan T if you want to feel expert-like by listing the things that are not included in this video, then you should probably review this one. th-cam.com/video/7n7SOttRPEk/w-d-xo.html
additionally, there is wayyyyy more missing from this video than you've listed here. don't forget - this is just youtube. this isn't "learning".
attend an actual live course. dont sit back and critique the "trailers", and convince yourself you know enough about it to critique the "movie"
th-cam.com/video/giEOae_yKt0/w-d-xo.html
I'm not criticising anything, just giving my two cents on what I felt was overlooked.
Ok cool. It's not overlooked. Just not included. More videos in the future and of course, the actual classes are the place to learn for real. This is just TH-cam.
Nice
Early videos had alot of info but these two deadlift videos had alot of talking and it felt like you were beating around the bush . I was dissapointed
well theres not that much to talk about :/ since hes assuming that people watching this know the basics.
Auch.
Strength is not client-defined. Strength is the ability to generate force against an external resistance through a complete range of motion. I think an overarching theme in these videos is that some people will always just be frail and weak by nature of their proportions. That's depressing.